The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Joe House discuss the current Celtics and compare them to previous teams that have been in similar situations.
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47 Comments
Last night, I saw two late game bad shots by the Nuggets, and they were shocking. The Nuggets always get good looks. And it reminded me that those shocking Nuggets shots were NORMAL shots for the Celtics. They had no Plan B. They had no way to get easy baskets. They're passing and movement is just … helter-skelter.
One difference w the Celtics and other historic teams, is that this is the era when guys enter the league so young. The near-misses are when Tatum and Brown are so young. It's not like this team has missed at their peak. They have missed pre-prime. I think most other teams missed when they were in the prime. They hit their primes and then couln't get over the hump.
Maybe if they shave their beards they can win a championship
Historical references don’t match up with todays outlook
No. No they won't get over the hump. Even if this team can somehow once again find and maintain the defensive intensity that Udoka had them doing last season, these Celtics still turn the ball over too much (and in key moments) and show very bad decision-making when it comes to shot selection and ball movement. They are talented but their offense is dumb and they make mistakes. They can win a lot of regular season games on talent alone, but will continue to get exposed in the playoffs. To win a title, Celtics need a real point guard to facilitate a real offense (should actually try the Phil Jackson triangle at this point), and someone on the squad who has won a title before to help in the locker room (even if as a role player), and then of course Tatum needs to cut his turnovers wayyyy down.
Some teams that did win a championship amidst several years of competing were the Detroit Pistons who made six straight conference finals, but only won one championship, and the Dallas Mavericks who were a contender every year for over a decade but only made two finals and won one championship. This Boston team may be similar – good enough to be a competitor year after year, but need to have that one season where it all goes right to finally get one.
This rendition of the celtics team is just the 90s Jazz.
They keep talking about 5 conference finals but never once say their record is 1-4 in the conference finals. As if thats some sort of accomplishment. It would be for the Atlanta Hawks but utter failure for The Celtics
Adding Brogdon was them building on what they had. They needed a ball handler so that Tatum and Brown wouldn't have so many off-the-dribble turnovers like they did in the Finals against GS. But Brogdon was hurt against Miami. I say that's bad luck. Personally, I think the best solution is to keep the core together but have Tatum and Brown work with a ball handling coach since that's been their main downfall in the playoffs the past two seasons.
boston celtics aint winning another championship anytime soon , which will give bill .. a ton toooo talk about for many years to come =)
Dude how can you forget the Spurs in the list?
Since 1999 under Duncan's watch, the Spurs has been to the Conference Finals for 9 out of those 16 years???
It's really hard to get 2 All NBA guys on one team. I don't think you can trade Tatum or Brown unless you're getting a ton of depth in return.
Of course Utah’s only “big move” was trading for Jeff Hornacek lol
Rob Williams needs more help it’s crazy how much they lean on him to force Miami to miss 22 of 25 FG attempts with 15 attempts being 1on1 in the paint.
Jeff green and a 1st for Perk is a killer while everyone rightfully so talks about Harden to Houston
To be honest, i wanna see this team back. But if they do decide to change it up, i say u have to make Tatum the guy going forward.
To answer the question, no. C's will not get over the hump.
The Celtics are hopeless
I don't think Wyk and Brad and Mizzoula see what the entire NBA and NBA fanbase understand. Brown's gotta go. Let him go commit turnovers in big games elsewhere.
One of the few times keeping a team together was the Sixers which they mentioned. But that's as unique situation. They got a guy who has just won the mvp two years in a row. It would be like the Celtics trading Williams for Jokic
The JT/JB LEAD celtics only started like 2 years ago. People love holding every year of their career against them. The timeline started 2 years ago, not in 2017. Those early teams were NOT theirs
Brown for Lillard move smart to the 2, keep brogdon and horford gallinari… everybody else can go.. get a real big man Drummond or something n test your luck
I was so good with Johnathan Bender in video games
Guys, come on. Stop trying to overcomplicate matters, LeBron has been to the Conference Finals 12 times in his NBA career. That's the second-most in NBA history, trailing only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who made 13 Conference Finals appearances. It's the players, dude. If Tatum played for the Bucks, they'd be in the NBA East Finals every year.
Hear me out… i have an idea… get Kryie
Boom
The players are on the Celtics do not truly like representing the city of Boston, especially Jaylen Brown and Tatum. That is the truth. Tatum" Ive been this excited to go back to Boston." Read between the lines.
even though the Jays are the two best players, my personal opinion is that this team can only go as far as Smart takes them, and I think we've hit the ceiling with him
Let's go heat!!!!
The research doesn't work because it's a case of false equivalencies. everyone is different.
Short answer: No.
Definitely need to mix it up Boston needs a point guard! You need a healthy front court. If you’re gonna shoot 3’s all night long look for a rebounder!
Hee hee hee another Celtics flop
if the celtics give jaylen brown max money they are a terribly run organization
Celtics fans thinking this team is some juggernaut or almost there is delusional… yes they may have gotten to the ECF 5 of 7 years, but they have struggled to get out of the 2nd round all of those years too, many of those series going 7 in ONLY THE 2ND ROUND
Long time listener. But jeez, this is some of Bill's worst work.
Overlooking the 2000s Pistons and Mavs is egregious. Not to mention all of the issues dealing with Jaylen–withiut an extension, his value is severely diminished, and if he is extended, he can't be traded for a year.
Meanwhile, the Heat and Nuggets are living, breathing testimonies to contuity and reasonable reactions to disappointing playoff outcomes.
Russillo is right–it is about giving yourself the best chance to compete. Well, for nearly a decade, the core of the team has been giving Boston that chance year after year.
Steve adams to Celtics!
No. Next year you can no longer pay two players max money when one (or both of them) aren’t max players. Wow players will actually be paid their worth instead of just everyone getting max money. Such a terrible world (sarcasm)
Tell me the last team that won a Championship without an all star caliber big man or guard, i'll wait. Celtics lack both and as long as they won't fix this they are screwed
Celtic just need to add to Tatum and Brown not move Brown….
They need a floor general like CP3 or Mike Connelly. Give the ball to Tatum and hope for the best is not an offensive system….
There's a comparison they interestingly didn't make that may actually be the strongest one…
The Chicago Bulls. Two elite wings, keep losing in playoffs and then hired a great coach, put the right pieces around them and boom, dominance.
Now I don't think Tatum is close to Jordan and Brown might be even further from Pippen but the league as a whole isn't nearly as talented (among the top teams) so that kind dissipates to a certain extent.
Brown needs to improve a lot of areas, Tatum a couple and I think they need a third genuine option instead of relying on guys like White, Horford and Smart and their inconsistencies but they're not far off it.
I actually think Jordan Poole wouldn't be a terrible get for them or perhaps even Ayton. Lillard is the most obvious target though, position of need, mentality of need and possibly available, albeit no idea how they get him without giving up Brown but he'd give them a solid 3 year window to win a title and Lillard should age nicely into a good role player as well.
Talent alone won’t get you over the hump, specially when said talents choke or are mentally weak. Ime didn’t help but the Celtics leadership messed this one up: there shouldn’t have been a coaching change. You don’t give a championship team who has players that can’t handle pressure to someone who has to learn on the fly. A lot of things went wrong with Ime firing. Talent carry them through the 1st half of the season. Once the rest of the league catch up, they were lost
Bill can you please improve the camera quality, it's really distracting when the background is HD and the cameras look like they're from the 2000's.
Problem I see is they lumped in a bunch of different Celtics teams… First conf. finals team was Isiah Thomas.. Then it was Kyrie and Gordo.. Then Kemba and Gordo. This is only really the thrid year of it being Tatum and Brown's team. They have time.
they won't get anywhere as long as they think tatum is a true number 1 guy
Never forget Bill was 100% correct on Doc
I honestly believe that Brown will always be the scapegoat in this team and trading him while he's still All-NBA is the best time.
Options include:
1. Going big with KAT
2. Going for veteran experience to get you over the hump with Kawhi or to a lesser extent PG
I have watched an average of 70 reg. season games of the Celtics for Jaylen Brown's entire career and every playoff game. I have loved his development through the years to the point where he is an elite scorer. But he has not improved much in one worrisome area–he has the worst court awareness of any player I have seen in the NBA. He gets stripped from behind because he doesn't know where the defenders are, he loses his man off ball way too much despite being a very tough on-ball defender, he is a terrible passer, rarely hitting shooters in their shooting pocket and consistently misreading the defense and dribbling into double and triple teams. He has been in the league 7 years now and I don't think it will change. As much as I hesitate to say it, if the Celtics can get a younger player with potential and a high craft pick, they should pull the trigger. 27 is usually where NBA players hit a peak and JB may get a little better physically but the mental part of the game seems to be out of his grasp. A funny statement considering he is by all accounts very book smart.