Seems Ty is also interested in the Sochan/Keldon debate for starting small forward like my post yesterday. Right now my poll is still open go vote if you care and also go vote in Ty’s if you have Twitter I’d love to see what the majority of us Spurs fans think on this one
Sochan vs Keldon at starting SF is such a tough choice, personally I’m going Sochan.
No matter what starting lineup we use I hope everyone remembers
* we don’t NEED to maximize every single possession on the floor with the most ideal lineups possible this season.
* If our starting lineup has problems… we can sub guys in and out after 4 or 5 minutes. Spacing a problem? Sub guys out. Need someone who can reliably get us into our half court offense? Sub guys out.
It’s ok if our starting lineup isn’t our best lineup. It never was when Manu started on the bench. In the 2000’s playoffs we usually started games terrible on offense the first 5 minutes without Manu. As much fun as those days were, the starting spacing of Tony Bowen Duncan, a second center, and 1 of Turk, Jackson, Finley, Barry, wasn’t one of the fun parts. Those weren’t productive playoff lineups except for a few series the entire decade. Off the top of my head, 2003 vs the Lakers was one of the only series we actually had great first 5 minutes of halves. Usually we got our ass kicked or gently spanked.
That was while we competed for championships.
So long as we’re doing whatever you want to call this season, I’m sticking with development, who flipping cares how effective our starting lineup is at outscoring opponents? Even if you care more than I do, make substitutions after 4 minutes.
I’ll work through the starting lineup myself.
Wemby doesn’t want to start at center. Guess what, Wemby will 100% not be starting at center. Easy.
Can Sochan start at center? Should Sochan? I think he can in plenty of matchups but should he? I don’t think it’s in his best interests to develop the way we probably want him to. I want him spending more and more time defending the perimeter and learning from mistakes out there. Long term I think him defending centers will be one of if not the most important distinctions of our best lineups. That’s not what we’re focused on right now.
Collins will probably start then. He’s the easiest fit on offense of the other big men. That’s 2 starters that it seems a consensus has mostly settled on.
Here’s where the knives really come out. We need playmaking, we need spacing, we need to start Sochan since he’s got the 2nd most potential on the team. This is our war.
My proposed starting lineup is based mostly upon keeping the band together. I would love nothing more than for anyone on the Spurs to embrace coming off the bench. BUT Manu didn’t even want to be Manu. That was after winning 2 finals, being argued as FMVP, making an all star team, winning gold vs American NBA players, and being 29 years old. I promise you even with all that accomplished and all the respect he’d gained in global basketball circles, all the maturity and get over yourself Manu developed with the golden generation of Argentinian basketball, Manu didn’t want to come off the bench. Manu did not want to be Manu.
Asking a young 1st round pick that’s been starting already to now come off the bench is not an easy ask. It’s a humongous ask. I would LOVE for a guy to be receptive with it, but I don’t think it’s something anyone should expect a guy to take in any way besides begrudgingly and possibly even resentfully. These guys have not accomplished anything like Manu had when we asked him to do it. These guys are all still unaccomplished and want to make a name for themselves.
If Pop asks one of Keldon Sochan or Devin to come off the bench, im sure they’ll do it. There’s a very good chance they’ll play nice and say they’re comfortable with it. In their own head I doubt any of them would be. How big of a problem would that be for each guy? I refuse to speculate on their maturity or personal values.
What I think is the easiest starting lineup is Devin Keldon Sochan Wemby and Collins. Not our best lineup to win games. The best lineup to keep everyone happy. I know some of you will die for Tre and say this lineup can’t go without Tre bringing the ball up and getting us into our offense. I don’t really believe that to the extent some of you seem to, but even if you’re right we can
* sub guys out after 4-5 minutes
and
We don’t NEED to play our best starting lineup. Does everyone not remember our starting lineups without Manu sputtering around on offense in the playoffs in the 2000’s? Quit freaking out about how effective our lineups to start the first 4-5 minutes of halves are going to be this year.
One criticism that I agree with is that, no, maybe our starting lineup doesn’t have to be our most effective lineup to win games, but it needs to be complementary for guys to develop. That if the spacing sucks it’s bad for development. If we don’t have a true PG the playmaking sucks. If guys are handling the ball too much their development is going to be disrupted.
The one flaw in there I really sympathize with the most is our spacing. Which my proposed starting lineup, Devin Keldon Sochan Wemby Collins, is better equipped to remedy than arguably any realistic alternative. Realistic being the key word. You’re not starting Wemby at center. You’re not benching a young 1st round pick for Doug McDermott.
We do not need to have the best starting lineup this season. We are not going to have our best starting lineup this season. We didn’t have it when we won championships. Even beyond Manu we played around with second centers to take it easy on Tim and also help him pretend he wasn’t a center his whole career. Whatever Tim needed to call himself a PF. I think there was more long term benefits to Tim’s health besides just his mental health of cosplaying as a PF.
I won’t care what starting lineup we use unless it causes problems in the locker room. In my mind, starting all of Devin Sochan and Keldon is the best way to keep the locker room vibes good. I think it’s still complementary to guys’ development too. All of Devin Keldon Jeremy and Wemby should be handling the ball and figuring out what they can and can’t do and what they should and shouldn’t dedicate more time to incorporating into their long term play style.
I’d love for the vibes to remain immaculate even with 1 of them coming off the bench. Whoever did it would instantly rocket up as a favorite of Spurs fan.
tl; dr. How good the starting lineup is doesn’t matter. How happy it keeps everyone and how it complements development of key guys matters. We’d all love a young guy to embrace the bench role. Nobody should seriously expect one of Devin Keldon or Sochan to embrace a bench role.
1 Comment
No matter what starting lineup we use I hope everyone remembers
* we don’t NEED to maximize every single possession on the floor with the most ideal lineups possible this season.
* If our starting lineup has problems… we can sub guys in and out after 4 or 5 minutes. Spacing a problem? Sub guys out. Need someone who can reliably get us into our half court offense? Sub guys out.
It’s ok if our starting lineup isn’t our best lineup. It never was when Manu started on the bench. In the 2000’s playoffs we usually started games terrible on offense the first 5 minutes without Manu. As much fun as those days were, the starting spacing of Tony Bowen Duncan, a second center, and 1 of Turk, Jackson, Finley, Barry, wasn’t one of the fun parts. Those weren’t productive playoff lineups except for a few series the entire decade. Off the top of my head, 2003 vs the Lakers was one of the only series we actually had great first 5 minutes of halves. Usually we got our ass kicked or gently spanked.
That was while we competed for championships.
So long as we’re doing whatever you want to call this season, I’m sticking with development, who flipping cares how effective our starting lineup is at outscoring opponents? Even if you care more than I do, make substitutions after 4 minutes.
I’ll work through the starting lineup myself.
Wemby doesn’t want to start at center. Guess what, Wemby will 100% not be starting at center. Easy.
Can Sochan start at center? Should Sochan? I think he can in plenty of matchups but should he? I don’t think it’s in his best interests to develop the way we probably want him to. I want him spending more and more time defending the perimeter and learning from mistakes out there. Long term I think him defending centers will be one of if not the most important distinctions of our best lineups. That’s not what we’re focused on right now.
Collins will probably start then. He’s the easiest fit on offense of the other big men. That’s 2 starters that it seems a consensus has mostly settled on.
Here’s where the knives really come out. We need playmaking, we need spacing, we need to start Sochan since he’s got the 2nd most potential on the team. This is our war.
My proposed starting lineup is based mostly upon keeping the band together. I would love nothing more than for anyone on the Spurs to embrace coming off the bench. BUT Manu didn’t even want to be Manu. That was after winning 2 finals, being argued as FMVP, making an all star team, winning gold vs American NBA players, and being 29 years old. I promise you even with all that accomplished and all the respect he’d gained in global basketball circles, all the maturity and get over yourself Manu developed with the golden generation of Argentinian basketball, Manu didn’t want to come off the bench. Manu did not want to be Manu.
Asking a young 1st round pick that’s been starting already to now come off the bench is not an easy ask. It’s a humongous ask. I would LOVE for a guy to be receptive with it, but I don’t think it’s something anyone should expect a guy to take in any way besides begrudgingly and possibly even resentfully. These guys have not accomplished anything like Manu had when we asked him to do it. These guys are all still unaccomplished and want to make a name for themselves.
If Pop asks one of Keldon Sochan or Devin to come off the bench, im sure they’ll do it. There’s a very good chance they’ll play nice and say they’re comfortable with it. In their own head I doubt any of them would be. How big of a problem would that be for each guy? I refuse to speculate on their maturity or personal values.
What I think is the easiest starting lineup is Devin Keldon Sochan Wemby and Collins. Not our best lineup to win games. The best lineup to keep everyone happy. I know some of you will die for Tre and say this lineup can’t go without Tre bringing the ball up and getting us into our offense. I don’t really believe that to the extent some of you seem to, but even if you’re right we can
* sub guys out after 4-5 minutes
and
We don’t NEED to play our best starting lineup. Does everyone not remember our starting lineups without Manu sputtering around on offense in the playoffs in the 2000’s? Quit freaking out about how effective our lineups to start the first 4-5 minutes of halves are going to be this year.
One criticism that I agree with is that, no, maybe our starting lineup doesn’t have to be our most effective lineup to win games, but it needs to be complementary for guys to develop. That if the spacing sucks it’s bad for development. If we don’t have a true PG the playmaking sucks. If guys are handling the ball too much their development is going to be disrupted.
The one flaw in there I really sympathize with the most is our spacing. Which my proposed starting lineup, Devin Keldon Sochan Wemby Collins, is better equipped to remedy than arguably any realistic alternative. Realistic being the key word. You’re not starting Wemby at center. You’re not benching a young 1st round pick for Doug McDermott.
We do not need to have the best starting lineup this season. We are not going to have our best starting lineup this season. We didn’t have it when we won championships. Even beyond Manu we played around with second centers to take it easy on Tim and also help him pretend he wasn’t a center his whole career. Whatever Tim needed to call himself a PF. I think there was more long term benefits to Tim’s health besides just his mental health of cosplaying as a PF.
I won’t care what starting lineup we use unless it causes problems in the locker room. In my mind, starting all of Devin Sochan and Keldon is the best way to keep the locker room vibes good. I think it’s still complementary to guys’ development too. All of Devin Keldon Jeremy and Wemby should be handling the ball and figuring out what they can and can’t do and what they should and shouldn’t dedicate more time to incorporating into their long term play style.
I’d love for the vibes to remain immaculate even with 1 of them coming off the bench. Whoever did it would instantly rocket up as a favorite of Spurs fan.
tl; dr. How good the starting lineup is doesn’t matter. How happy it keeps everyone and how it complements development of key guys matters. We’d all love a young guy to embrace the bench role. Nobody should seriously expect one of Devin Keldon or Sochan to embrace a bench role.