Are We Really In A New Era Of Suns Basketball With Mike Budenholzer?

Are We Really In A New Era Of Suns Basketball With Mike Budenholzer?

[Music] what up welcome this beautiful Saturday Morning Edition of the pH next Sun show SL oldheads we’re doing oldheads today uh just because we [ __ ] can so here we are that’s right Ohad what’s up my brother how you doing man I’m good man always always fun to do this in your church clothes yeah my church clothes yeah don’t show them your KNE though uh as always uh it’s a nice beautiful Saturday the day after bud holer I’m sorry coach buher Mike bher gets the the head coaching job here in Arizona with the Phoenix Suns uh you want to say it’s like the Native Sun returns and all this other you know glorified BS but um I think it was pretty cool to see him get emotional and and have the reaction he had to being hired and I think it definitely means a lot to him but you you know we can just kind of talk about Coach B yeah no the emotions was great man I mean you know that he got me right from the very beginning I mean two seconds in he’s getting emotional that’s just a rare thing in basketball and Sports in general to have a guy that’s got that much attachment to a franchise he grew up room for the Suns like I said he talked about trying to be Paul Westfall and his driveway and Alvin Adams and so um this is unique man it feels good press conferences are press conferences they’re going to sound good you know it’s going to look great uh everybody’s going to have this good feeling about things because it’s a press conference and everything is set up that way talk is cheap but I did get a unique feel um for this situation I I I just feel like this this might be good man this might we might have we might have stumbled on to something interesting I hope so I hope so uh you know obviously time will tell I I think his journey has been so unique in into getting to where he’s at right now he thanked um the Atlanta and and Milwaukee coachings or organizations for helping get him to where he is today I think that was a classy move but listen man this guy went from winning a state championship here in Arizona in 1971 then I believe he went to Cal Poly out in um in California okay and at that point in time um he had the opportunity to link up with pop um but then pop left before he could even be a part of of of what pop was doing and then they linked up down the road again and uh you know he and he coached underneath him for like 15 years and you can see the influence just by the way he’s talking about how they’re going to go about their business yes here in this organization hold people accountable coach people hard coach players hard and I that was very refreshing to hear and I know there’s a lot of skepticism just because we’re all scarred from the last couple years and not really believing what we’re seeing type of thing but I’m gonna buy in yeah I think I think he’s legit I I I do too I’m I’m bought in just the press conference the emotion I’m bought in I think his resume is different too like you just nailed it his resume is significantly different than Frank vog okay and so I keep hearing well Frank said this and Bud said that well we there’s levels to this it’s like you compare players there’s re you can compare coaches this guy’s a different level this is a two-time coach of the year how many Coach of the Year Frank got okay enough said how many coaches he got two he got a bubble coach of the year he got huh he’s got two coach of the years and two NBA coach uh coach association of the year so this is a guy that’s well respected amongst his peers um his record in the regular season is like 150 games over 500 roughly right I mean the guy wins he’s got a you mentioned it earlier uh yesterday on yesterday’s show a 60% win percentage in the regular season so here’s what we do know uh chances are if if the numbers math out this guy is going to win a hell of a lot of regular season games and then how things shake out in the playoffs is how they shake out but that’s a start 49 wins this year is a disappointment if this team can be around 55 is next year then automatically it’s an upgrade and you got the job done so I’m excited man I’m bought in bro yeah again accountability to me is the biggest thing here and I feel like organizationally that’s what they’re searching for they’re looking for that accountability like where did things go wrong who can I trust to give me the right perspectives and opinions um to rectify the you know what ails us and I don’t feel like we really had that uh the last year I feel like everything was just kind of all over the place it was really discombobulated and now they’re here and they’ve they’ve gotten a coached and they’re they’re writing a wrong essentially and I I know there’s a lot of people that feel like Frank vogle was the scapegoat and that’s fair to have that that opinion I’m I’m not of that ilk I look at this for what it is I feel like I I watched the coach try to figure it out as they went along and he couldn’t get across the players and I’m sorry man there’s sometimes you’ve played for coaches I’ve played for coaches like this where they start talking and you’re like n yeah [ __ ] that come on I I don’t I don’t believe that you know what I mean I had this assistant coach out South Mountain Community College way back in the day right and I just knew what he was was teaching me was wrong on Closeouts like I was like bro what are you talking about like take three long steps to close out like what no you should you should be Pitter pattering your feet to break down to try and get you know left or right and he just kept going on and on and on I was like bro I’ve never been coached like this and sure as [ __ ] about halfway through the year our our head coach finally looked over at one of these drills and he was like why the [ __ ] are we coaching these players like this and I was like hello like you just now figured this out like you wonder why we’re dead last in the conference defense like so it’s just you just know that some of these guys they come through and just they just don’t got it they’re just not that dude let me ask you something so this is interesting you’re a ball player I’m a ball player how important was coaching for you as Saul Bookman the player H how important was it it was important in the context of I need you to tell me the things that I can’t see for myself okay right so if I’m out there and I’m playing and maybe I thought I saw you know somebody a back door screen but he wasn’t open um but you saw that he really was open I just needed a way to beat to get to make sure that he gets past like maybe a bottom screen on the on the baseline or something like that cool or maybe my Jumper’s a little bit off and I can’t really figure it out figure it out foot yeah or or you know you need a little bit more lift on your jumper or something like that right those things as you’re going through the game trying to figure it out um to to help you those are the things that that I value a lot and so coaching was very important growing up as long as the coaching was it was respected okay okay and not every coach you come along you know sometimes you never know where these coaches come from I I say that because you know there’s people that have this opinion of okay you got a new coach but the roster the roster is still a problem and I’ve had situations where I’ve played on the same team two straight years but had two different coaches one year one coach one year the next coach and night and day and so the talent didn’t change necessarily but the impact the structure the accountability the system all that stuff changes I don’t think people pay enough attention to that I think they just think it’s just roster in NBA Talent is ultimately what’s gonna win out but when you add that highlevel coaching with that Talent that’s when magic happens right yeah and and so like Monty ran his course but I think Monty was the right coach at the right time for that young group yeah when he came in and and so I think Bud’s going to do a fantastic job and I do believe that even if they’re going to make changes on the roster but even if the roster were the exact same roster I would bet my money that we get better results if Bud was a coach this year yeah and quite honestly like I know sounds weird to say because they did win 49 games but I don’t really give a [ __ ] how many games you won what was the process that’s true what was the process did like did we lose some buzzer beaters and you know it’s just yeah the other team was just on and we we wion 48 games next year but we were competitive we played with effort we played with purpose and you felt good about you know your team heading into the playoffs if they could just do a couple things to tweak here and there or are they unpredictable yeah you know what I mean and I felt like last year we were wildly unpredict we didn’t know what Suns team was going to show up any given night um you hoped that Devin Booker was going to play at a high level you hope that KD was going to play a high level you hoped that Bradley be was going to play a high level but you didn’t know because it felt like didn’t really have as much control as they have had at other stops before as well right it felt like book couldn’t rely on what was going to happen game to game because there was so much inconsistency around him same thing for KD like man I’m tucked away in this corner but I feel like I should have the ball a little bit more than I have right now because we’re down by [ __ ] 10 yeah you know what I mean like I just didn’t feel like there was really a cohesive game plan every single night and I don’t think we’re going to get that with bud I agree bro I agree this this would to me this season was about uh structure balance awareness accountability just all those things all those uh major words we throw out there was none of it bro there was none of it um it a lot of times and this is gonna sound crazy again we both played ball we’ve been around multiple basketball settings um it felt aaish to an extent sometimes this year like I’m sitting here like man this our first week yes exactly first weekend in Vegas no one knows each other they just rolling the ball out and saying yo I know book I know you can play Flex I know you can play man make this [ __ ] happen and we’ll see like it it felt very discombobulated and I I think that’s where Bud comes in day one um I can tell you this emphatically just talking to people around that team and around that locker room you know Frank for lack of better words I just never got a grasp of this team M and I don’t think he ever put them in a position where they felt like on consecutive nights or for a long stretch of time that they were kind of in a Groove and and figuring things out it was just way too much of a roller coaster it was just too many moving parts and I think that’s why you get B on a fiveyear $50 million commitment when you sign a coach for five years $50 million brother um you’re investing in a guy I I take a shot in the dark that you know this guy’s going to be your coach bare minimum for the next three years yeah and so that’s that’s good to know and then last thing I’ll say to your point bro is uh and I actually want your opinion on this because we never had the opportunity to really talk about what I’m about to say but I’m I’m fascinated with Greg papovich I think for my money he’s the greatest basketball coach ever um I’m I’m fascinated with the process I’m fascinated with the way he handles star athletes I’m I’m fascinated with the way he’s able to capitalize Li on on role players do you is it me or like I watch San Antonio teams and I’ve seen the Personnel change but I feel like the system never does yeah right it’s like you could just plug whoever in there and they’re gonna play San Antonio basketball San Antonio Spurs basketball and that’s because of pop what are your feelings about pop and and with and with Bud being off the coach pop tree what do you think about that I I I wholeheartedly agree you know I saw this thing talked about uh winning championships and actually I saw I forgot who it was that said like systems win championships if you have great players yes okay and they talked about um the Phil Jackson LED Bulls the Phil Jackson Leed Lakers yeah okay um the papovich era Spurs okay and then they somebody mentioned like well Papa only did it for that one little run well no no no he didn’t because he came back in 2014 with a completely different team correct he still had the core three but those core three were not near what they used to be in job Parker and Duncan right you had Kawai that added into the mix you had dudes playing out of their mind like Gary Neil you know what I mean like Stephen Jackson like guy I was like who role players that were playing at a high level um you got the most out of Thiago splitter for crying out you know what I’m saying like like and it’s because the system was so consistent that the players knew exactly what was expected of them day in Day Out that consistency will breed success if you have the right mindset going into it and I think with this organization they’re starting to figure that out it’s not just about the players it’s also got to be about the mentality of players the system and the environment that surrounds them that all leads to a championship so when Jerry Krauss back in the day said organizations win championships to a certain degree I agree like I I think as a collective yes because you all got to move in the same direction But ultimately you do need the star players to take you over that last hurdle to get you that title and when you have it all in place which we all thought they did before the season and then you have the discombobulation if that’s even a [ __ ] word um of what we saw this year you got to bounce the head man because that’s your responsibility is to make sure that everything is consistent and it’s not just him it’s obviously the executive level as well and James Jones and above him and I feel like the people that saw it again James Jones has been here for half a DEC or plus that’s right okay he’s the one variable that’s been the consistent so when things are inconsistent that’s why I’ve been kind of hard on him because you need to be that that stabilizing Force because Matt ispia Josh bartlein hell even if you want to try and say that Isaiah Thomas is a shadow GM they’re all new to this organization in the last year they don’t know what the DNA is of it and they’re trying to make their own imprint you can’t just assume that they’re going to figure it out on day one but James Jones has been here that’s right so he’s got to be part of the solution rather than be part of the problem which I felt like he kind of was this last year 100% I I love your point about system because that’s the that’s what I think did Frank in I’m okay if you win 49 games you get knocked out in the first round but there was some type of identity that you left with and said okay didn’t work out this year but if you run that system with that identity it’s eventually going to work and I go back to the Minnesota timberwoods okay okay because when they made the trade for Rudy goar they gave up the that massive Hall of picks and it didn’t look good at all last year I remember everyone saying man they goingon to regret that Rudy gr Rudy Gro bear trade forever they’re never going to be able to make two centers work they’re never gonna figure this out and then they came back the next year and kind of stuck with their with their feeling they’re like you know what we know this can work yes we just need a little bit more and you saw how well they’re playing and going into game seven again what did I just say I said it doesn’t matter what the results are if you feel confident about where you’re going right and the Timberwolves clearly felt confident like no we’re not going to change this is who we’re going to be this is our identity so let’s just keep pushing there you go and and I feel like this organization just could not figure that out or they and listen Chris Finch has convinced them like hey this is going to work the way to go and he’s not wrong right now I mean you took you’re taking the defending champs to a game seven right like hey you’re doing pretty good you’re nailing it bro I mean listen we saw 82 games in the first round series and I can honestly say if you if if you ask me right now Flex what is it what was the son’s Identity or system last year I have no [ __ ] idea nope so that’s it that’s the answer that’s why you fire Frank vogle because in a year we’re still sitting here second guessing what they were actually doing I’m sure the players feel like that I’m sure those players are saying what’s the identity of this team [ __ ] do I know so so that’s why you make them move and what you’re hoping for now is that bud comes in and implements A system that hella high water whether you win or you lose you believe in and you can continue to CH you know chip away at things and and and with his resume the one thing I’m confident in saying is with his resume we know he’s going to implement a particular style of basketball um shoot more threes he said it uh uh pressure to basketball press speed so these are things he’s notorious for doing and so yeah that’s why I feel good about it I think he’ll have a system and we’ll be ready to rock and roll we’re not trying to throw any shade at people man we really not I mean we’re just trying to say the facts but if you feel like it’s a little too bright out there for uh James Jones or anybody else you can throw on some shady Rays the best polarized glasses in the game out there you can actually go to the kein commons uh store out there in Scott on the North side dude it’s it’s phenomenal uh Shady Rays one of the best glasses in the game you should go check them out they I got I got about four different pairs um I have different lenses and the different uh frames like they’re all fantastic my wife has this one pair and she’s listen man she’s gone after other higher Brands uh she’s she’s gotten some she’s a little bougie okay uh wrong with that yeah nothing wrong with that but she keeps coming back to Shady Ray because they just feel better they look better she feels better in them so it’s all good you should go get yourself a pair that over 300,000 people have enjoyed by using promo code pH next and saving yourself 35% off right now just go to Shady ra.com or you can go out to the store tell them the promo code and they’ll hook you up in person right there so you can just take them home right away so enjoy Shady ra.com again make sure exclusively for our listeners Shady Rays is giving out their best deal of the Season 35% off by using Shady raay uh promo code phnx for 35% off again 300,000 people cannot go wrong so check that out um do you have any bets that you’re placing this week there man I’m I’m I’m tempted with this game seven with this Minnesota Denver game s brother I’m really tempted I’m there’s a part of me I’m I’m almost certain that the money’s going to be on Minnesota right they probably they’re gonna be a dog in the game seven man I don’t know why I feel like Minnesota can get this done I really do man I feel I’m I want to pounce that money line on Minnesota and and and again the second thing I’ll say about that is if Minnesota does go into Denver and get a win my boy a probably went crazy so I’m I’m I if if I I’m thinking about going Anthony Edwards plus 30 and taking the the Timber’s money line in this decisive game seven try to get some bread what you think uh I man I don’t know it’s kind of unpredictable I’m gonna go with the home team yeah that’s a lot of pressure at home man you man you can’t you can’t go out like that right oh we did it’s true it’s true it’s true we did uh so hopefully you know I I don’t know I I’m not even going to say hopefully I think hopefully it’s a good game that’s what I’ll say uh but you could also win a lot more money than that if you want to place $10 on a wager by guessing who can hit a grand slam Fridays Saturdays or Sundays um by doing the MLB Grand Slam jackpot a weekly bet and get promotion Place $10 or more uh uh $10 or more wager on any player to hit a home run every weekend Friday Saturday Sunday if that player hits a grand slam on that day they can win $50,000 in Daily prizes or a share of the prize with every other winning better uh it’s pretty simple download the bmgm Sportsbook app on iOS or Android visit bgm.com sign up and deposit at least $10 place your first wager and receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets if the BET loses if the BET does lose your bonus bets will be available once your initial wager is settled sign up for bmgm using bonus code phnx place your first bmgm sports Mook wager through bmgm you heard the rest check out the show notes for full details and now listen to Shane talk about the disclaimer bonus bets expire in 7even days one new customer offer only gambling problem call 800 G available in the US call 8778 Hope NY 467 369 New York call 1800 32755 massachusett 21 plus only please gamble responsibly call 1800 nextstep Arizona 1800 bets off Iowa 18981 0023 Puerto Rico first bet offer for new customers only subject to eligibility requirements bonus bets are non-withdrawal in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel see bgm.com for terms us promotional offers not available in New York Nevada North Carolina Ontario or Puerto Rico so let’s talk about something other than coach Buton hoser let’s talk about this organization um and where we feel they are in terms of player personnel and let’s just focus on the big three all right because we’ve heard so much talk about the big three like is Katie gonna buy in and all this other stuff and you know is book a leader and you know Bradley Beal should he play off the bench and all this other stuff so yeah uh let’s talk about the first thing uh which is Bradley Beal should he come off the bench or not hell no hell no come on so is yo it’s comedy every time I see that man it’s comedy drives me crazy drives me nuts Brad Beal is still a terrific basketball player I said this on a recent show uh if you gave me that same exact deal right now knowing what I know after this season I’m still doing it 10 out of 10 times not even [ __ ] hesitating I think Brad bill is going to benefit the most out of getting coach Bud yeah I I really do so yeah I I love Brad Beal um I think I did look at some tape of how Brad used Drew holiday um in that big three and milwauke I mean I’m sorry coach Bud used Drew holiday in that big three in Milwaukee and when I looked at the film I was smiling ear to ear I’m like oh man this might be a little blueprint of how they can get more out of Brad Bal so um yeah to answer you a question man hell no this guy’s an NBA star he’s 30 years old he’s a Max guy for a reason what you the the Brad Beal disrespect this year was on another level man I just I can’t buy into it at all I I don’t I’m not buying that hype I’m not buying that he should come off the bench because what are you going to do who you going to replace him like what are we talking about here we’re talking about a guy who who is a top level NBA player and yeah okay he had a little bit of an off year this year but look at all the things that were surrounding him this year the change of scenery the change in coaching the change in organization like all these things that were kind of working against him the injuries like and and the leadership that I felt like he showed towards the end of the regular season I thought was so needed it was so needed and and I just feel like the disrespect on Bradley Beal has just been an easy out for a lot of people um because they don’t want to blame Kier book for anything so this is the way they’re going to go because they feel like he’s the easy target much like I felt like Frank vogle didn’t really yell at the big three he just looked for that what he perceived to be a a weak person on the bench yeah to yell at and make a point at even though it’s like bro you like KD could turn the ball over five times in a row but the first time Drew Eubanks does oh I’m ripping his ass like what about this you know I mean like and so that that’s the thing that I’m not going to be able to sign off on right let’s talk about Devon Booker all right Deon Booker in leadership uh I will say this I think Devin Booker learned a lot from Chris Paul yeah I think again I think when you’re talking about the audience perspective and the fan perspective watching something play out on a court and on TV you want that validation visually of what a player is doing to be a leader quote unquote right yeah and I don’t think in a lot of respects that happened to everybody’s satisfaction this year for both him and KD correct okay now KD is a little less vocal than book yeah um he’s he’s a little bit more reserved than book book has been here for going on nine years now yeah and there’s a lot expected of him he is the face of the franchise the one thing I would say about Devin Booker is I think he could have done a little bit of a better job of being a little bit more demonstrative and making his points on the court yes because I think he was trying to not embarrass guys yeah which is respectable but I also think man sometimes you just got to get in somebody’s ass yeah like for real especially and I say this emphatically especially when you hearing the things about Frank vogle that you heard in terms of the players not really respecting him as a player I’m still trying to win a title if I know nobody respects the coach well damn it I’m stepping up to to command that Authority righte more and that’s that’s the thing that I feel like book I guarantee you book is probably sitting back right now chilling out in his pool thinking about what happened this year and that point is probably coming up in his head over and over and over again like man I probably could have done a little bit more to make sure that this [ __ ] wasn’t as big of a [ __ ] show as it was yeah no dude I couldn’t agree more listen I think the the part where you nailed it one million perc Chris Paul taught Devon Booker a lot okay before Chris Paul got here Devon Booker didn’t know how to lead okay um I think Chris Paul showed him the Dynamics and and what it takes to really hold people accountable and get [ __ ] done beyond the norm because Chris is is an acquir taste he’s really hard to play with here’s what I think happened with book um I I think when Chris left I I think that book because of the Brad and Kevin Dynamic I think that book had this maybe this thought that between the three of them they’ll be able to manage that situation or that locker room or how the coaches uh you know uh cumulative accumulative leadership role there you go there you go so I I think I think book was looking at it as hey you know this is Kevin Durant man this is one of the greatest Avid do it and and Brad’s one of my peers he’s an Allstar just like me so together as a group we can do it I think the the lesson book probably learned is you know what um yeah I I got however comma yeah I I gotta do more because at the end of the day heavy is the head that wears the crown and the crown in Phoenix whether they like to admit it or not is solely on Devon Booker’s head he’s the guy that’s been here the longest he has the most tenure he has the most seniority and so I think he has to embrace that a little bit more going into next season and I think he will because I I truly believe deep down inside this isn’t sitting well with Deon Booker the way this played out is is probably burning so so hot inside that uh he can’t wait to get back on the court so uh another thing people gota remember man he’s 27 and so there’s still some learning going on there as much as we want to say Devon’s been here nine years and you know this down in third he’s 27 so there’s still room to to improve as as leader and uh I I think I I would hope that as a group with Bud now in place they’ll be a better uh structure in regards to how they’re going to handle leadership and just like anything Saul if if if me and you on the team and we’re considered leaders and you see that I’m a little off um it’s okay for you to come up to me and be like yo Flex man I see you not you a little off here I’m gonna step in right now I’m gonna be the voice that you gota listen to uh and I I think that they have to do that Kevin Devon and Brad at some point have to be able to pick each other up and do those things but I think he’ll be better and I think he he could have done a lot better this year I think maybe that’s where this gets lost a lot and I’m not trying to make excuses for Devin Booker by stret the imagination but Chris Paul leaves the franchise um and you’re with Kevin Durant in the offseason you know hanging out playing ball pick up working out whatever right but the work ethic for Kevin Durant speaks for itself however the dynamic of leadership on the court is a completely different thing and I don’t think Devin quite realized that early on enough and when he did realize it maybe he thought oh maybe Brad will help out in this area or maybe coach will finally you know turn a corner or whatever like I can’t really put it I can’t really put it into a nice little typ box but it’s you know listen man it’s Kevin Durant that’s right you know what I’m saying like and we keep hearing that over and over again it’s Kevin Durant like you think that you’re going to get something that because of his status and who he is and what he’s accomplished in this league and I think maybe at some point Devon Booker realized he wasn’t going to get it quite that much not to the Chris Paul level that he got that’s right so and and by the time he figured it out maybe it was a little too late yeah Kevin Durant you know I think he also learned something this year he did too you know I think Kevin Duran has taking a look at this and you know he listen it’s one thing to get called out by Charles Barkley about leadership and all this other stuff right and and the leadership narrative is is is kind of tired like I get it yeah but I I think my point about being visually demonstrative and being you know imposing your will you know if if I told book like do you think you were legendary this year I guarantee you he’d say no hell no like like somebody needed to step up this year and nobody really stepped up this year and and took that Manel of like I’m going to put this team on my back from a leadership perspective and carry them as far as I can right nobody it never really felt like that it felt like the whole season they were trying to figure it out figure it out figure it out and by the time by the time they they you know [ __ ] they didn’t not even by the time they figured it out because they never did it was over you so with Kevin Durant I think his his thing is he’s got to take a step back and and realize that it’s not about what other people want you to be as a leader it’s about how can you help fix this team when things are going wrong how whatever style that is but you got to do it and you got to do it better than you did this past year yeah so it doesn’t mean it has to be on the court but damn it if it’s not GNA be on the court it’s got to be out off off the court It’s gotta be behind the scenes locker room at the house a cookout [ __ ] going out to too Madera one night I don’t give a [ __ ] what it is right and I’m not saying that he didn’t do it but I I will say that obviously the results of being swept in the first round he didn’t do it good enough yeah no so I I I actually think you did a really good job breaking that down bro um I I will say this again Chris Paul is a unique cat yeah that guy is the leader on the basketball court he’s a leader when they’re having a picnic at the barbecue yeah when they’re watching film like this [ __ ] guy does not know how not how like how not to lead right he’s just a he’s a natural-born leader I think Devon might fell into that trap a little bit of maybe uh you know because Chris did it so often I may he made a may have took it for granted a little bit and when Chris wasn’t there he didn’t just quite know how to turn that switch on I think they all lead in their own way I think Devon leavs his way Katie leavs his way Brad has a different way of leading Brad’s the interesting person in the three yes because Brad is coming from a situation just think about the Dynamics Devin Booker coming off of playing multiple years with Chris Paul who is the ultimate leader and he’s having success making it to NBA finals and knocking on the door then you got Kevin Durant who is a a leader in his own right but he does it a different way he’s got two championships he’s got a league MVP he’s a you know first battle Hall of Fame a goat he leads a certain way Brad has never won in this league Brad’s been in an organization that just loses loses loses and so I think this was like a a year of learning for Brad okay this isn’t Washington anymore like this it isn’t okay to win 20 games it’s not okay to lose five in a row like in Phoenix you lose three in a row they’re ready to burn the stadium down in Washington you lose three in a row and they’re like all right cool you so it’s a different Dynamic I think Brad had the most to learn and I think that he did learn I think there’ll be a different Brad next year I think there’ll be a brad be that’s going to come in and say okay man like losing is not okay losing streaks are not okay um you know having players be demonstrative on your home court and you and you not taking that as personal enough that’s not okay uh so I think Brad’s Gonna Learn I think book learns a little bit I think KD views it as okay I I’m the Elder Statesman I’m the guy that they’re gonna lean on I’m Kevin [ __ ] Durant I think collectively they figure it out but uh I wish they can get a guy like Chris in here because people don’t understand how how how Dynamic and how important just having a guy that can have that level of respect does for a basketball team I will say this about Kevin Durant um I don’t I think he got a lot of blame this year and I know there’s a lot of people that are hard on him right now but man I will say this I do not believe that we will get the same thing next year from this three I don’t believe I believe Kevin Durant Devin Booker Bradley Beal will figure this out for next season I think that the Dynamic of Co coach Buton holer holding them accountable will help yeah um because again great players want to be coached they want to get better yeah so if you can help them get better that’s all they care about right and then on top of that KD himself I think I think maybe to that this was this was the final straw in term of of the leadership thing right I think he will take some time this this offseason to think about what has happened the [ __ ] that’s being said about him the things that he does not agree with and he step back and be like you know what n [ __ ] that that’s not how I’m not going out like that you know what I mean I do believe that and so those three are the core of this team you can call them the Inner Circle if you will and you can be part of the Inner Circle by going to Circle K I love that transition like myself on the back oh easy there Eric don’t fall out seat the transition was so good uh be part of the Inner Circle by going to Circle K um getting yourself the the Circle K app uh the Inner Circle Rewards app it’s fantastic you can get all types of hookups on Foods drinks uh you save yourself some money on gas 25 cents your first five fill-ups plus after that you’ll save three cents until you hit a certain amount and then you’ll save five cents after that um also if you get their little debit card too which just basically you link it up to your own checking account and every time you swipe you save 30 cents for the first uh couple months or the first 100 gallons whichever one comes first which is pretty dope um so I mean Circle K is always trying to hook you up and right now you can get their f fantastic drinks for 69 boom there you go so it’s a pretty cool thing Circle K is always trying to hook you up so go to Circle K go to Inner Circle uh download the rewards app and save yourself some money right now as well as you can save yourself some money by going to Four Peaks because Four Peaks has always got some specials on going on for happy hour during the day uh right now they got the Fantastic green te L which is my it’s it’s my favorite it’s the green tea shot um it’s basically green tea mixed with an ale uh man it is just smooth it is nice it’s refreshing it’s great for these hot summer days that’s why it’s out during the summer but they also got the W re the Suns brew as you see on the screen and the kill lifter so go check them out and you can go check out the food over there at day stre Pub menu constantly changes it’s seasonal every single month it’s a new menu um of seasonal items and you won’t go wrong it’s delicious as F so go to the H3 Pub check them out Four Peaks Brew check them out on Twitter check them out on Instagram follow them give them a like and remember you must be over the age of 21 to enjoy all right uh to wrap this show up we do want to talk a little bit of offthe Cuff Stuff so Flex tell them what your idea oh this gonna be fun this gonna be fun man Ohad this is oh this is this the epitome of Ohad brother ready okay so we always talk about the 90s basketball and and all our favorite players I think people enjoy that when we take go into that little time caps so we go back in time and talk about basketball players so uh if you if you like 90s basketball then you know that hip hop and and the and the culture of hip-hop and basketball was like intertwined at that time like Allan Iverson came out you mentioned it earlier The Fad Five Michigan the black socks the baggy shorts right and so this was prime time NBA and Hip Hop so my question here this is a nice little experiment um if you can take a player from back in the day any player he they can be current okay any goat any any any major uh basketball player that you consider a goat type guy and pair him with a rap goat okay uh what’s that look like what’s that look like so I’m gonna tee you up here if you looked at the landscape of basketball and a landscape of rap and hip hop and you had to tell me is Michael Jordan your goat yes okay yeah so if Michael Jordan is your basketball goat who’s the Michael Jordan of rat okay so I’m I’mma keep I’mma keep it to the ’90s for this conversation I’mma keep it to the ’90s because of this conversation uh so there’s two factors number one style yeah um aggressiveness okay um and just pure enjoyment right because that’s what Michael Jordan epitomized and Michael Jordan just happened to be born oh [ __ ] where my guy was born oh [ __ ] I love from Brooklyn and so I’m going with Biggie oh I’m going biggy I’m going with Biggie and Michael Jordan because because during the 90s I just felt like biggie was everything to me I I loved his style I love the way he told the story I love the way he he delivered everything uh biggie to me is my favorite rapper of all time Michael Jordan’s my favorite player of all time so boom Oh man so I love this okay so now all right so here’s the thing Biggie’s my favorite rapper of all time 100% you know that um I’m gonna I’m going to change it up slightly because I have a and I know you’re not a fan this guy no you can’t say that well I I willon say that but uh so listen Michael Jan is my goat and you nailed it uh Michael Jordan to for some people don’t know this Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn New York okay February 17 there you go baby you got this my guys on top of it and so I believe the goat of rap um although I lean towards biggie I’m looking at the longevity of it right and so when I look at Jordan I say the argument with Jordan is he got six rings unfortunately due to his untimely demise biggie wasn’t able to put out as much music as this person and so I’m gonna get a nod as far as my go to Jay-Z my boy Jay HOV Jay-Z also born in Brooklyn New York Marcy project stand up so if I’m going if I’m going to put this together I’m going Michael Jordan and Jay-Z those are my two girls okay but based off your argument go ahead talk to me I feel like Jay-Z would be the LeBron we gonna get into all this [ __ ] we gonna get into all this did you have something to say Eric I was just wondering if Flex knew the day that Jay-Z was born the same way that I do December 4th I don’t know the year but I know it’s December 4th 1 million Brooklyn stand up Brooklyn stand up Baby Bro Flex was there I I was living it baby I was yeah man it’s crazy I was right place right time I was in the delivery room holding Jay’s Mom’s hand crazy it was wild wild that’s that’s cool that’s cool yeah yeah yeah I love that I love that I’m going to give you another one okay we’re going to go uh West Coast let’s do it we’re going to go west coast uh cuz to me growing up obviously like I love the Suns that’s my team growing up I loved them I loved watching them play growing up but okay it was always about magic God I love it was always about Magic Johnson man Magic Johnson was just like man you know what I mean and so I got to take magic back and I know a lot of people would be like oh well you’re probably going to go with like Tupac or something like no I’m not going to go too far because to me during the times of uh of the late 80s early 90s there was a little shift in hipop from like this kind of like this kind of I don’t know if you want to say okey doie it was kind of like you know it wasn’t as hardcore okay earlier in the days right right and then it shifted and it went a little bit more you know it got a little baby it got a little intense right and the leaders of that uh just like I felt like the the Lakers kind of changed the game in their fast break style um the leaders in that change in the new wave of Hip Hop was NWA so I’mma put the showtime Lakers and NWA together and Magic Johnson being the Beast that he is he was the orchestrator so Magic Johnson would be Dr Dre to me oh hey man yo dog okay we GNA have some [ __ ] fun with this man you know what’s funny because when I was think when we were kind of thinking about doing this episode and talking about it uh behind the scenes My Boy e he heard some of these conversations I was thinking about that I was like yo can I incorporate a group inwa can I incorporate a group and tag them on with a team I could have I could have used I could have used Detroit as the bad Bo stop stop stop stop that’s what I so I thought about it and I said okay 90s right when I’m thinking about 90s hip hop and I’m from New York everybody knows that New York New Jersey throwing through uh I was living through the biggie bad boy era right and there was a shift when them death row cats came in man The Source Awards man yeah they came to my T they was in my hood talking about man hey hey the East Coast don’t love Dr Dre Snoop Dog you know let it be known then let it be known then Dam it West Coast in the house I love that I love that dog uh so when I thought about it I’m like okay death row we talking about Snoop Dre corrupt Tupac Suge man that’s the Bad Boys Pistons that’s the Bad Boys Pistons right that that when I think of that I’m like bro they came in and took the rap game by storm and they were just physical about everything they did it was lyrical but it was physical it was like damn I don’t want to go to a club That Shook NS in like I heard stories like yo shook just walked in we out so that was the Pistons right the Pistons you come on you to Detroit man they already knock your head off Rick Mahone and boy so I’m glad you went there because I thought I was thinking I was like it’s all GNA is he gonna go there he gonna incorporate a team you nailed it uh East Coast West Coast I like the the showtime Lakers with NWA now can I throw I’mma throw I’m GNA throw two guy because you mentioned magic and and I want to touch so uh I’m gonna throw two guys into at one time and then you tell me if you agree or you can match on guys with you so I’m going to go mat his what I’m GNA say uh I believe that and and I noticed I saw the documentaries and I lived it you lived it we’re roughly the same age the NBA was saved by Larry Bird and Johnson right there was a time that a lot of people may not notice but the NBA was suffering uh they weren’t selling tickets you can go it was more expensive to go see the circus in Chicago than it was in Chicago Bulls yeah right so the NBA was folding they had issues with TV contracts and media contracts NBA Finals was on tape delay that’s right the NBA fin people man y’all got y listen to oldheads man yall get schooled tape delay I I remember vividly and then magic and bird had this unbelievable NBA uh NCAA Final right Michigan State versus Indiana State and that led and bled into the NBA and It ultimately saved the NBA the NBA you enjoy today is because that happened yes uh Magic ends up with the showtime Lakers bird ends up with the boss of Celtics and he created an NBA version of an East Coast West Coast few yes right and so naturally I’m gonna sit here and say Larry Bird and Magic Johnson are to me to to rap is Biggie and Tupac yeah right is that fair oh yeah big is L bird Magic Johnson is Tupac they went at it they had two entire coasts going at each other I remember uh being a kid I’m sure you had these I remember being a kid and having arguments about whether do you do you get the all black Converses that were Larry birds or the purple or the purple and yellow Magic Johnson ones right they both were signed the converse so it was it was a crazy rivalry so yeah Biggie and Tupac Are My Larry Bird and Magic Johnson do you agree or disagree I agree I agree with that I agree with that hardcore yeah for sure um I have I have a these are two totally different Generations let’s go I love this but this one I think this one’s gonna make you laugh so let’s talk about Draymond Green Oh [ __ ] talk about how Draymond Green is always getting in trouble doing [ __ ] but he plays at a high level yes and and he’s you know he’s highly regarded as a very good all-around player outside of like scoring okay one of the best defensive players in the game absolutely a hard worker but you can also call him a dirty player yeah and every now in he gets banned from the league for a couple games here and there yeah so we’re going to equate we’re going to equate Draymond Green Oh man to my boy Luther down south in Florida and two Live Crew because those dudes got banned religiously that’s fact yo they got banned in Arizona y they couldn’t even perform in Arizona because they got banned because they were singing some off-the-wall songs man like some crazy stuff and if you don’t know what I’m talking about you need to go back and crew back in the day with Luther was crazy man that was crazy like that was back in like we were starting to get in that day and age where like you know like I to me they were the ones that started like you know the girls dancing on on stage twerking and all this other stuff right and then the songs were like so graphic like bro like yo yo mom’s in the midwest we’re not trying to hear turn that so when you see Draymond Green fall back and kick LeBron in the nuts man he’s got to go and so this music to a lot of people man they just wasn’t ready for it so to me uh you know you gota be bad as you want to be right there dog dog see I knew I knew we were gonna have fun with this dog because I I know I’m like Saul’s gonna throw some [ __ ] out there that I wasn’t even thinking about but makes a whole lot of sense do hey two two Live Crew was ahead of their time actually yeah they were ahead of their time and they were they kind of set the tone for a lot of the [ __ ] that we saw come after because it was it was artists that were afraid to do what they were doing they they went out there and said we not afraid to like NWA went like this like anti like establishment kind of Route whereas T crew went like oh some [ __ ] that you only say in behind closed doors correct correct damn I love that Draymond and CH live I love that I love that okay so um here’s here’s another one and this is uh where if you’re going to talk rap and you know old school rap then you know that rivalry happening rap and basketball and stuff so everybody knows if if you don’t know about the Drake Kendrick beef right now I don’t know what Rocky you’re living under but uh let’s stick to Kendrick my man Kendrick Lamar so when I think of Kendrick Lamar the first name that comes up to me okay is Kobe Bryant yeah right that is that fair yeah my man Kobe Bryant it beloved out here in the west coast Laker through and through 20 Seasons I learned something about Kendrick now this this funny this this funny I’m an East Coast guy right so I’m watching this Kendrick and Drake beef happen but now I’m in the west coast and I’m bro I’m feeling it like I’m telling you I’m feeling it like I’ve never felt like I respected Kendrick Kendrick’s top five Dead Alive that’s my guy but I I didn’t understand the love Kendrick has out here in the west coast yeah and the last time I felt that love was Biggie in New York yeah yeah and so I have a whole different respect for Kendrick and so when I thought about this exercise I’m like yeah man you can’t roll around these parts talking about Kobe crazy out in the west coast La Cali like and so yeah I think Kendrick I would aign Kendrick with coob um and I I think people are gonna say that it should probably should be braon but I don’t know I feel like it’s more Kendrick is more Kobe to me than brown what do you think no I a million percent agree listen man like Kendrick did uh the the final video for Kobe’s last game um he narrated that video and is is to the song levitate I didn’t even know that oh yeah dude that video is that video is like one of my favorites of all time because he just he talks about what Kobe means to the city and like what what he did while he was a Laker and and all this time you hear that song in the background levitate levitate levitate levitate you know like it’s just dope I maybe we’ll drop a link in the in the the chat so that way you guys can take a look at it too but man it was fantastic man and so uh you know I I totally agree with that man that was fun man that was really fun I got actually one more goad we can’t can’t end this out I’m I’m I’mma throw something at you and I just want you think first first thing that come to mind I’m just throw uh I’m going to do it the opposite way okay okay DMX who’s the DMX of the NBA like now and and just thr the first name that comes to my mind for DMX is either Charles Barkley or Shaq oh okay who are you thinking I’m thinking Kevin Garnett oh yes yes okay you like that hey shout out to the super producer Eric Ruby because I can’t take credit for that we were having this thing and my man Eric Ruby said yo DMX kg oh yeah I’m like oh where my dogs at right yeah I’m with that okay last one okay Steph Curry oh man [ __ ] I mean it feels like it’s too easy to just put two light-skinned Brothers together it’ be Drake right that’s what I said but I know right now I’m not in the right place to be saying that [ __ ] I’m in the west coast right now so but it had to be Drake yeah man because they too pretty for their ownselves man come on and they did change their game like like Steph changed the NBA yeah and dog Drake Came In Like A like bro Drake Came In Like a bull and just changed the game so I I I’m staying away from OVO right now I’m not not even wearing the hoodies but I but I will say that’s the easy one can can I can I attach one name to to Steph without if it’s not Drake sure I’m I’m I’m thinking Eminem a little bit and and only only because of the impact that they’ve had as far like I think Eminem changed rap forever I think he’s a top five guy dead or alive and when I think of Steph I think he’s also starting to creep into top five and so I I think if there’s a guy I can last one last one so give me a guy for M if you got think M give me a guy man so you got to talk about somebody who changed the game yeah um you know what I’mma go I’m I’mma go with another white dude okay because I do think that this guy changed the game because he was the one of the first ones to do this on a consistent basis in terms of like Eminem did what he did and one of the greatest lyricists of all time in terms of you know just rap battles and all this other stuff right but this dude changed the game in terms of like how we think about bigs and I Gotta Give it to Dirk Man O Okay one of the first one of the first seven Footers to take you outside and drop threes on you like crazy there’s no joker without Dirk yeah million perc right like European kid like just doing everything on the court won a title like I would say Dirk you could say LCA but I would say no no no I like Dirk because Dirk got the longevity LCA ain’t done enough to be true you got to get a ring if you’re GNA be Eminem bro I love that I love that I actually thought you say joker LCA is like M MC Miller right now okay yeah yeah okay because I mean rest rest in peace MC Miller he was only here for a short time not a long time luk is only here right now so okay so here’s what I want to do we’re gonna end this right here I want to promise that we’re going to revisit this with the modern day player and some more modern guys in in in the music thing cuz feel like I I I’ll be remiss if I didn’t shout out I love nipy hustle and and I got to do some thinking about who’s N I gotta do some thinking right you feel me right yeah I got to do some thinking man nip is a tough one nip is a tough one because the longevity isn’t there but if you know hip-hop and you know rap you know the impact had I got one got one right now [ __ ] it man let him lose but yo 16 Let It Go yo Gilbert Arenas tell me how yo give what toas hey hey Hab was that guy bro that short little span was as impactful as you’ll ever damn dog you might have nailed that dog you might have nailed that because that’s what we’re talking about we’re talking about a short spurt nip came out he had a short window but damn if he wasn’t a bad boy in that short window and I don’t think people give Gilbert enough love man Hab 31 points yo he was the first guy like you see shooting threes and turn around not even look he was the first one to do that [ __ ] on a game winner on a game winner had the balls to do it just turned around like yeah I got this and then [ __ ] clown ass tried to do the same [ __ ] and that [ __ ] rimmed out I wouldn’t have said that that’s respect who no who’ you say Nick Young shot turn [ __ ] RI out nah bro you nailed that I would have took way longer to get to that but you nailed that cuz the window the window makes sense and the impact makes sense [ __ ] Habachi yeah man nipy I love this man we GNA do we gonna do this I love this man oldheads is always it never fails man you you can never fail by going to Legal pets by the way legal pets Margaritas beers the whole nine yards the best tacos burritos uh queso dip the queso dip is fire get the green chili dip man that’s is dude you can’t go wrong with that stuff illegal pets is where it’s at you can go to Illegal pets right now uh it’s actually off of M Avenue so check them out illegal pizza is here to bring you a win with their legendary sound check deal bring in your ticket stuff from any ticketed event and get a draft beer or house mergy to Fork just a penny illegal pets wants to celebrate with you whether it’s a pregame or postgame party they got you covered on all your game day needs must purchase an adult entree to redeem illegal Pete sound check deal illegal pet your go-to spot for burritos buddies and beer and finally finally finally listen we’re going into the weekend yeah and we got you know I don’t know what’s going on this weekend we got Mercury playing at home on Saturday today yeah Saturday yeah yeah today tonight yeah so they got the merker playing tonight uh they balled out the other day even though they lost but uh there’s some other events there’s like an orchestra Biggie and Tupac event that’s weekend my man goes to me off for a little bit but that’s cool uh but uh before you go to any of those events I promise you uh take an Uber this weekend drive out be safe and have some ogs because ogs will keep it nice and fun for you nice and light uh it’ll you know listen some of us have had a stressful last week some of us got a little banged up so I’m about to go home I’mma pop some o G’s I’m A vibe out watch some comedies and just have a good time and that’s what OG’s is here they’re here for a good time Tucson’s very own OG’s go to OG’s brands.com get yourself a little sativa some indicia some rsos uh the whole nine yards and if you can’t sleep at night my man you you struggle a little bit sometimes sleeping at night man they have the sleepy time gummy as well it’s money it’s fantastic you can’t go wrong with OG’s Brands OG’s brands.com check out the closest dispensary to you and remember you must be 21 and older to enjoy you don’t have to be one and older to enjoy this PO because we’re here all the time trying to give you some flavor uh for your Fridays just like OG’s does so uh check us out old heads we’re going to try and do this a little bit more frequently because it’s the offseason we ain’t got nothing else to do right so uh that’s my guy Flex from Jersey you can follow me as _ Bookman on social as well you can follow the Pod phn xor Suns and you can follow my guy Eric Ruby in the back what’s your what’s your head at Eric Ruby Eric Ruby there with a K can I give you one that I told Flex earlier just a random one uh Nicole yic is Andre 3000 because once he retires he ain’t touching anything again he’s walking around with his horses like Andre is walking around with his flu but bar for bar but bar for bar not many could go with them I actually love that I love that who would be the NBA version of a one hit wonder vanel uh hold on is vanel a one hit wonder I think he had a couple bangers he had a couple bangers okay NBA version snow snow was a one number all right so hold on no we got to get this come on Eric ver version one Wonder sheesh God just came out and had one year and just disappeared or just maybe not even a I got it give me it Jeremy Lynn JY jyy leremy L it’s gota be Jeremy L yo ly sanity I Liv that [ __ ] I was in New York they thought man they thought this guy’s seven amazing games and then didn’t do [ __ ] after that man got a big contract a couple times and that was it bro you naed that and I can’t repeat this I can’t stress this enough so I was in the middle of that [ __ ] and I’m telling people I’m like can y’all stop thinking this guy’s Michael Jordan he has seven games he Bal his ass off those seven G he miss damn that Toronto game oh I remember I remember it New York City was on fire bro that’s yo you na that we got to do this [ __ ] we got to do we got to look at some more names and and the chat like the people that follow us the people that listen you got idea did send them in if you got you got something let us know we going to have some fun with this for sure that’s another episode of whole EDS we appreciate y’all till next time peace [Music] [Applause] peace May

In this special (prerecorded) edition of Old Heads/PHNX Suns Podcast, Saul Bookman and Flex From Jersey break down what they think of Mike Budenholzer, the big 3 and compare rap G.O.A.T.’s to basketball G.O.A.T.’s.

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