Why the Cleveland Cavaliers must remain patient Ft. The Chase Down’s Justin Rowan

Why the Cleveland Cavaliers must remain patient Ft. The Chase Down’s Justin Rowan

hello Evan Evan damal here um and I got some news about the future of lockdown Cavs and um it will not have me as part of it um after the you know the the sudden changes to the show um the network has decided that it’s the best course of action for locked on Cavs to have a total reset and refresh with new hosts and new personalities and um yeah it it uh it’s the end of an era I guess if you want to call it that um either way it’s it’s been a lot of fun um and I’d like to thank each and every one of you who made this journey with me for nearly 1,000 episodes since in December 2019 I was super hesitant to do this and fast forward almost five years later and I’m so thankful I got to have this experience since it’s more than simply just basketball to me it made covering the Cavs fun the friends colleagues coaches and players and thanks to Cavs PR for making the coaches and players part possible that I got the chance to speak with on the show and in turn getting it to share it all of it with you made it even more enjoyable and hopefully I’ve left you guys with some good memories too I’m not quite sure yet for the next steps for me podcasting wise but if you like what I do support the work myself and others do at WR down uid as some of you can probably tell write down ID’s namesake is an homage to former Cavaliers play-by-play announcer Fred mccloud’s iconic call whenever a player drives to the basket and since Cleveland’s heartbeats to sports we’re here to cover it all at write down uclid win or lose bringing you real local in-depth independent on the ground coverage that will always and forever be free inaccessible and never behind a pay wall but since we are a nonprofit and we’re not in this to make money we do rely on support from audience members like you so again if you grow to miss my voice um on this show or anywhere else um support right down uid today the link for that will be down in the show notes description whatever you however you’re consuming this podcast it’ll be there um and thank you again to everyone who was part of this journey and uh since this is the end for me I wanted to kind of Go full circle and have things end where it began and on today’s show I will be joined by the chase Downs Justin Rowan the guy I first recorded with when I was officially announced as one of the hosts of lockon Cavs back in December of 2019 to discuss the state of leing Cavaliers and what’s to look ahead for for with this team and yeah um thanks again everyone and until then until we cross paths or you hear me on another podcast Stay Gold you are locked on Cavs your daily Cleveland Cavaliers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day welcome back to loton gavs how you doing how you doing I’m Evan damal and on my technical right but I guess physically speaking left if you’re looking at how the camera’s laid out is Justin Rowan um but come on in and sit on down because I got to first let you know that this episode is brought to you by prize piix the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports is prize piix just go to priz fix.com locked on NBA and use code all lowercase locked on NBA that’s l c k e d o n NBA for first deposit match up to $100 but as I had mentioned at the top before we get into the nitty-gritty of it it is the last time we spoke injured member of the chase down podcast Justin how you doing I’m doing well thank you for having me it’s uh you know we’ve taken a couple weeks off uh since the last game from the Cavs we’re we’re going to be back next week it’s probably the longest I’ve gone without sitting in front of a mic in a little while so so thank you thank you for uh you know getting me back in this seat back behind the mic and in front of this camera well I’m happy to do that I guess I could be a warmup for you as you uh dive into oh I I stay ready there’s no need for warmup even after a little time off I I Stay Ready don’t you worry about that actually no you teed me on perfectly speaking of staying ready Justin um Cavs president of basketball operations Kobe Alman more or less said that dramatic wholesale changes were going to come to the CS this offseason I think a lot of people are projecting that to being um moving on from Darius Garland Jared Allen uh building around Donovan Mitchell Evan Moy but you are uh quite the data keeper when it comes to what these lineups do and don’t do together and um I’m just going to pass the mic to you do you agree um with ultim in sentiments that just like not blowing up what they had built only two years into this technical project is the right way to go about things I I that’s hard to say because I I think one of my kind of central frustrations when it comes to Cav’s discourse is people will say that the data supports something without actually providing said data and that just always drives me nuts um I’m I’m seeing sentiments that you know the guard pairing doesn’t work when you look at last year you look at this past season uh you look you know across the board the data says that they are better together as a team they are better together than as a part um but you know I do think you know anytime you get to this kind of stage of team building you have to evaluate all options and just because something has worked doesn’t necessarily mean that there isn’t a version that can work better and I would expect the Cavs to explore those options I I would be very surprised if their approach to this offseason was hey let’s make changes for the sake of changes like you know let’s prioritize you know an archetype or a theoretical way of playing versus talent I think if there’s opportunities to change the style of play to you know kind of jump start the offense beyond what what it has been um through trades while maintaining that Talent level I see them go that route but you know when I I see big trades and stuff like that where yeah let’s trade stars for role players because this kind of you know fits the style that we see with some other teams I’d be very surprised if that was the approach yeah I think I’ll be frank like that’s the right way to approach it in general just because it’s just um how this Cavs team under Kobe Alman as just whether it’s general manager or president of basketball operations they’ve always been patient and pragmatic like they spent a solid we week um deciding JB and evaluating JB bigger staff’s future of the team before you know making that decision despite you know reports coming out before the body was even cold that the calvs were cooked and they have to like do X Y and Z to do that so I I do agree that like yeah let’s figure out what does work what doesn’t work um I do think it’s interesting though that like alman’s sentiments were it took the Milwaukee Bucks almost a decade to hit the point they were like that core Foundation of Chris Middleton Yannis sanmo or in the Denver Nuggets case it’s you know um Jamal muray and nicoa yic and I think there are parallels there I think remaining patient is good and I also just think yeah not reacting for the sake of reacting or making a trade for the sake of making a trade may not result in anything that you really need just because like you said it is easy to put this team under a microscope or maybe just look at a small sample size and see like oh yes XY andz role players will improve this team laterally maybe a little bit above laterally but I just I I keep coming back to this idea of like oh if you want to want to entertain trading any of these guys the return that the Cavs get versus what they’re getting currently with said player just doesn’t seem worth the squeeze yeah and I think when you look at core players you know that is part of your core as it currently stands when you look at the Denver Nuggets there was probably a time where Gary Harris was considered part of their core right correct the Milwaukee Bucks that was probably the case for uh Eric bledo when you identify a player as a core piece you’re only really moving it for a piece that you can believe you believe is going to be part of your core whether that’s Aon Gordon whether that’s a Drew Holiday trade um the summer prior to the Donovan Mitchell trade we had Chris Fedor on the podcast who said you know low is probably the closest thing to a core member of the team outside of you know the core three like even closer than Colin ston and he was moved but that was for an obvious core piece in Donovan Mitchell so um you know I I would expect that if there is a trade it would be something kind of of that magnitude of all right we’re bringing in someone that we believe is going to replace that member as part of the core rather than just role players because if you’re talking about you know Mitchell and a big as you know kind of your core and the rest is just going to be well fitting rooll pieces that the Utah Jazz that’s what they had they had you know kind of three and D playmaking Wings all over the place a lot of spacing and they had limited team success Donovan uh you know didn’t have the best years of his career until he was in Cleveland so I think you have to learn lessons from that experience from what has worked these last two years and thoroughly evaluate every option but you know it’s the same thing with the coaching staff it’s the same thing when you look at potential trades we’ve entered kind of a funky part of team building where it’s the hardest step to achieve and the reality is even stuff that makes sense on paper and works on paper that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to be an improvement we don’t know that the coaching change is going to be Improvement we don’t know if there is you know a core trade that it’s going to make them better as a team this is a very very difficult stage and I I expect the Cavs to you know approach it understanding that and and really thoroughly considering every single option no I absolutely agree and I think that’s were you and I are on the same page and also just I think how the Cavs Orient and operate as an organization is they are patient they are pragmatic I think they are opportunistic when the opportunity arises whether that’s I mean think about how they sat on the sidelines quite a bit to get Jared Allen or they were opportunistic in the fact that like the Knicks walked away from the table but they threw an offer at the Jazz that the Jazz just you know couldn’t step away from even though the Knicks were kind of sewing their oats and Fielding their options when it comes to Mitchell but it’s such a delicate balancing act because I I with time removed and also just not maybe paying attention to the discourse as much just to get myself a mental cleanse just of like fans whether they’re in the comments on YouTube or my mentions on Twitter or whatever you want to call it um just saying like oh they need to do X Y and Z they need to blow this up yesterday I’m like thinking let’s just trust the process a little bit too because they are a very talented team they have a very talented and a very rare situation talented core unit of Garland Mitchell Mobley and Allen where there are ways to accentuate and continue to build around that and I think just like for this offseason like yeah you did a good job last year getting role players and key role players and maxr and George yangang I think those are just like clear fits in terms of shooting I wouldn’t say this team is Flawless by any stretch I I don’t think think any team is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but the Cavs now can just kind of approach this of okay how do we continue to accentuate this core foundation and build upon The Supporting Cast we’ve more or less assembled over the last year or so yeah I mean if you’re just going by kind of knee-jerk fan reaction after a season last year was Jared Allen right like he was the Target and oh let’s move Jared Allen for uh Christian Wood because he’s a big that shoots threes and Josh Green right like let’s do that kind of stuff and in Hind like that kind of emotional trade would be a mistake right so if there is you know a a piece that that you know fits better or fits in a way that Trends with the direction they want to go you know prioritizing offense I can see that I I can see them exploring those tyes of options but uh when it comes to you know just selling off star players for role players because hey we went nine and three in a stretch where we didn’t really play any winning teams we with just Mitchell and um that I don’t think that’s necessarily wise right like you look at every player on the Cavs that played a significant role in that stretch every single one of them had their body breakdown Mitchell had you know knee soreness Wade had knee soreness Max Caris um you know Jared uh was probably kind of the lone healthy one but everyone that was playing a significant role over that stretch their bodies didn’t necessarily hold up from that like you see some of the the yearend comments were um minutes were a concern for Donovan Mitchell well he’s like not even top 15 in minutes he’s playing you know fewer per game than a 40-year-old LeBron James if we’re going to need to manage his minutes increasing the load and giving him a a new role probably isn’t super high on my list like I I don’t want to increase his responsibilities I want to make life easier for him so he can be at his most effective when it matters most so that’s the kind of stuff you have to wait and you know as much as people want to simplify everything and act like they they’re simple decisions there really isn’t no then I think you hit the nail on the head like there is not a simple decision or a simple way to react and navigate this and I think that is kind of the beauty maybe some of the frustration and the chaos that just comes with in the NBA off season because there are always going to be teams that are looking to be opportunistic like if Donovan Mitchell’s despite the reporting doesn’t reup with the Cavs there’ll be plenty of suitors that are blowing up Cleveland’s phone to say like hey we we’ll trade Donovan but the Cavs could also just say you know what let’s keep playing this out and see what happens and I I think it’s the instant gratification the trader things like that but when looking at this team let’s dive in more to the subjects of just like what can they do whether it’s the draft for agency like just specific targets or just you know kind of archetypes in mind we don’t have to name names or anything like that just because it’s so early into the process still but first off got to give a quick word from today’s first and only sponsor prize picks as I had mentioned before today’s episode of Locked on Cavs is brought to you by prize pick prize pick is America’s number one fantasy sports app with over three million members it’s it’s it is the easiest and most exciting way to get the in into the action while watching your favorite sports and players you just pick more or less on two or more players stats and watch the winnings roll in prize piix has something for every sports fan from basketball to hockey to League of Legends and everything between when everyone is playing you can pick between LeBron Caitlyn Clark Conor McDavid and any League player I can’t keep up with LCS anymore all in the same entry just to play prize picks just download the app today and use code locked on NBA for a first deposit match up to $100 Again download the app today and use the code locked on NBA for a first deposit match of 100 bucks prize picks pick more pick less it’s that easy all right I’m am back with just the chased Downs Justin row to talk more just about the state of the Cleveland Cavaliers and we’re both in agreement that maybe just making a trade for the sake of a trade isn’t what the Cavs need to approach especially because this is a young team that still needs to kind of find its legs and grow I think Evan the the K elman’s comments about Evan Moy maybe not hitting his expected potential is more on his part uh in terms of just team building things like that but I think that’s just an interesting way to look at things because like they do have a nice collection of players but there are flaws and in your eyes Justin like in terms of just like archetypes like again we don’t have to name names or anything but like a guy that like would just make sense in terms of a mold for the Cavs at least for me is like a guy who can play that three four spot and allow the Cavs to continue to maybe explore going small all while maybe playing bigger and just having a guy that is a plug-and-play support option for them whether it’s Off the Bench or as a starter yeah I I mean last offseason I was a big Advocate when there were reports that hey they’re going after PJ Washington they’re going after Nas Reed those are the type of guys that I I think like theoretically that’s the archetype you want to have next to Evan mobile where those guys a player that can play the four offensively while rotate over to provide Rim protection on the defensive end of the floor because I don’t want Evan Moy to be pigeon hold into a defensive role where all right you got to be the rim protector you’re you’re you know you’re standing there uh we need you underneath the basket if you’re not there we just have wings kind of around and we uh can kind of pick us apart I don’t want him to be Rudy goar you see the most impactful defensive players are able to roam able to play free safety and I think that’s why in the past Dean Wade has worked so well next to moy because he is someone that can provide Rim protection he is someone that has that kind of defensive versatility it’s a tough archetype to find but whether you are you know referring to all right that’s going to be if they make a trade and they move on from the two big pairing if that’s kind of the the primary player that you’re getting back you want someone in my mind that can fill that archetype or if you’re trading for a wing you’re bringing in someone that can do that at a lower level but can still kind of provide a little bit of that um you know um you talked about it a little bit earlier you know just kind of valuating the talent and you know no team build is perfect in the NBA you have to build a team with the best talent that is available to you you know we all understand what ideal archetypes would be for the core of the team and how you can kind of supplement it but there is no archetype store you can go to you there is no you know all right default replacement value three and D wi that gives you playmaking default stretch four like you have to name names and teams aren’t going to give up those valuable player so when it comes to kind of a pairing next Devan Mo that’s kind of what I have in mind whether that’s as a third big that you can kind of trial some uh stretchy things or if you do end up you know going that direction and and Chang the makeup of the core you’d want someone that can fill that archetype and the tricky part is is like filling that archetype like you said like that is the I don’t want to say prototypical modern big man but like that’s the ideal alcome you want from a four spot as a guy who can play four or five or if you know God willing have to put him at the three you can do that if you want to go super big but like he’s able to provide you defense rebounding three-point shooting but also just like be a backup five and also just provide that spacing next to Evan Moy and I think like if you look at the draft like I I am going to name a name like Kyle filipowski from duke isn’t like a perfect solution of it but he’s a guy who could soak up minutes and he provides you spacing and things like that and can let you get a little creative of lineups and stuff like in the same vein you understand why the Cavs went after George and yang as hard they as they did because he is a four by size and he’s a shooting four by size but like yeah there are the defensive limitations but you’re hoping you can maybe mitigate that a little bit with either an individual pairing of Moy or Allen but like let’s just look through the lenses of like yeah it makes sense but you can always improve on it and like I that’s why I was a fan of the Marcus Morris sener signing on paper and then you saw what Morris senior could kind of give you because he still has some gas in the tank you’re thinking like okay yeah that’s a little bit more of what they need is a guy who can play the the four predominantly but can switch to the three and like at the Cavs like they did super small lineups during the playoffs with Morris senior at the five just because injuries are unfortunate and really took a toll on this Cleveland Team all season especially at the most inopportune time but um it’s guys like you said like guys like that aren’t really growing on trees like you can’t just go to the store or if you’re Kobe Alman you can’t just call A Team saying I want X player for as little as possible because no any team would realistically hang out the phone if you did that and so I think that requires you to get a little creative and I do Wonder like could coaching maybe a coaching change or just a new voice of perspective or just set of eyes could kind of plug and play and look at these options a little bit more but like I think there is a foundation there it’s just now how far do you want to run with it before you realize okay we maybe need to explore other options whether it is just maybe finding a guy who’s comfortable being a pseudo 45 instead of a 34 or a guy that is comfortable handling backup point guard minutes in the event like Darius Garland gets banged up again or Donovan Mitchell has injury problems again and just because to your point in the first segment like I I don’t think the solution is playing these guys even heavier minutes all season long and just kind of hoping that rides you out especially in the postseason like you want them as healthy as possible and I think that’s the goal is to find supporting pieces that can just lighten their load a little bit and that’s the tricky part of it because guys that like the Cavs clearly need aren’t a easy commodity commodity they’re a premium commodity and that’s where the like the team building process of it all just kind of gets a little trickier yeah and you know when you look at the data over the last two years the thing is the two big lineup does work offensively if both Darius and Donovan are playing at a high level if one of them is out of the lineup it does not work offensively if one of them isn’t playing at as high of a level as they typically are accustomed to playing at it does not work offensively and I think what you saw this year you know both Darius and Donovan started off with with the hamstring injuries Darius had the hand injury um the early returns of Donovan just playing at at point guard were awful earlier this season and then um you know Darius starts to find a bit of a rhythm and breaks his jaw and Mo’s out at that time so then you know we know that the one guard one big lineups th those are going to work right like in theory you’re playing 16 to 18 minutes with with all four of them together and then the majority of the game is that staggered one guard one big right you’re getting that 30 minutes a night we know that that works but the two big lineup just because of the rigidity of this roster you need both of those two pieces playing at such a high level and I think that’s something that they have to evaluate of okay can we make it so that we have buil-in redundancies in this roster where we have a little bit more playmaking depth or we have the shooting to make this work uh and to survive some injuries or or tough stretches uh from those players so that that’s going to be a tough evaluation process but it’ll be really interesting to see how they approach that no I absolutely agree and let’s kind of like maybe hit the nail in the head a little bit and we’ll talk about it more in the final segment of this show but like is it a maybe it’s a coaching thing or maybe it is is just like working within the margins of the draft or free agency cuz the Cavs do have options they aren’t like in luxury tax absolutely deadlock yet but there’s options out there and we can talk about that a little bit more in the next segment so we are back for the final segment of lock on Cavs and we’ll just jump right back in Justin um when it comes to just like a coaching perspective like you said like like in Ideal World when this team is fully healthy 16 18 minutes is when you see Mitchell Garland moyy Allen sharing the floor together you can plug and play struce aoro just assuming the last year’s roster like whomever there at that spot and kind of do some weird funky stuff but do you think that should be kind of just the focus for the Cavs like okay you’re obviously going to have when looking ah head coaching candidates I should add um you’re going to have to have these minutes all four of these guys on the four together but how can you creatively build a rotation and lineups and everything else just because there are going to be moments where it’s going to be one big one guard it could be a moment where it’s a big with a backup guard instead or it could be a minute with a guard with a backup big like how can you be creative in the fact that like we do have four very high-end talents and some very nice supporting pieces surrounding them but do you think it’s a coaching thing or do you think it’s just the Cavs are still a little flawed and they maybe need to add maybe a piece or two or is it just a combination of both I think it’s a combination of all um you know I always hesitate to put everything on the coach it’s always the easiest because that’s the easiest part to turn around but sometimes you know it’s buying right like I I think in the past JB was getting very consistent buying with this roster and you know voices do have expiry dates I don’t know if that’s what occurred but um the frustrating thing about some of the struggles down the stretch or or even you know the the playoff games that didn’t go their way we were sitting there on the podcast being like what they need to do is stuff that we have seen them do both in the regular season and in the playoffs the consistency of that execution is no longer there and I I think from you know a coaching standpoint um when you’re interviewing candidates you want to see creativity how are we going to keep both of the guards involved when they’re on the court how how are we going to make sure that both of them are getting enough T touches and kind of allocating those possessions um are we able to get more movement and have a less rigid offense because I thought the Cavs when they ran their stuff ran very good stuff it’s just so often you know there’ be standing around where or you know it’s a three-man action and the other two guys aren’t really being involved and I think when you look at Boston and some of these highlevel teams and kind of use the the playoffs as a data point what you see with those teams is a lot of guys that created a lot of positions a lot of movements you know make things easier getting those easy possessions and there just wasn’t that consistently so I think that kind of you know mentality and that strategic approach to the offense would would be something that I prioritize because um you know looking at the playoffs there were just too many times where I was saying okay like one of my big complaints um prior to Donovan getting hurt was hey Darius is an on ball like darius’s touches have been dramatically slashed he is playing a shooting guard role in and he’s not getting on ball reps at all and like it the offense just doesn’t function as well Mitchell’s playmaking against the top teams isn’t at that level like guys were shooting six guys were shooting 60% off of Mitchell’s passes in the playoffs so it’s not like he was setting guys up and they were bricking everything if they shot 100% on his passes for the playoffs he would average under eight assists per game that is not a high enough level playmaking um when you’re talking about a lead guard and a playmaking guard um I don’t think it’s necessarily a coincidence you know everyone looks at okay Jared Allen goes down and all of a sudden the offense takes off even though the offense didn’t take off and Mo’s last three games against Orlando were a struggle I don’t think it’s a coincidence that even though Darius played well in one game and played poorly offensively or shot poorly offensively in the next I don’t think it was a coincidence that Mo’s best games offensively and two of their best uh three offensive games in the playoffs period came with with Donovan out of the lineup and Darius running the offense that’s not to say like I’m not going to go a bad faith route and say oh you know Donovan’s the problem just like I’m not going to look at that stretch with with Darius and Mobley out and say that they were the problem this should work on paper and I I think you know Finding ways to consistently get maximum value out of both of those guards and the offense overall would be what I’d be prioritizing when you know you’re looking at these head coach candidates yeah I think that’s the perfect way to put it is how do you maximize the opportunities as often as possible because let’s be realistic like the Cavs are going to have off nights they’re going to be nights for like maybe Garland or Mitchell assuming this whole group is still together of course we don’t know what’s going to happen in the next by this time next year or anything but like assuming this whole core group is still together heading into next season like you got to find the ways to maximize these opportunities and sure you can try your best to account for maybe Guy having an off night or an injury happening but like it’s it’s Sports there’s no perfect way to find that solution but I think the creativity point is absolutely correct and I think again like it’s hard to or more so unfair to crystallize just this team success without Mobly in Garland in mid December to that hot streak they had in early January and so on and then just kind of how the injuries just took their toll for them um come playoff time against and a fair ugly Series against the magic it was a defensive grinder but I think not having Allen and also obviously not having 100% Donovan Mitchell against Boston certainly was a deciding factor for Cleveland because they played hard they came down they went down swinging in every single they would have had a chance man they would have had a damn chance Boston is has not looked impressive they’ve had a bit of an easier walk I think than Luca and the Mavs have had so far even that’s fair to say yeah yeah like they’ve had a bit of an easier walk just in terms of injuries and things like that but that’s either here or there it’s just like looking at this team like they are on the precipice like I think just wrapping up like what Kobe Alman said Alman shared just like in his individual conversations with most of the players if not all of the players like they all feel that they’re right on the precipice becoming a title team and I I do Wonder like and there’s just so much noise in the data data or just like evaluating this team like did injuries certainly did play A Part during the regular season but it’s also just like unfair and hard to crystallize it all because it would have been a dramatically different outcome if they were healthy at certain points in the season especially just yeah when the season mattered most come playoff time yeah but you know the unfortunate thing about NBA and team building is fair has nothing to do with it man like you got to make tough decisions with the D data you have available I think there’s enough encouraging data when you look over the last two years to to draw some conclusions but like I said before just because and I think people have kind of misunderstood this when I’ve said it in the past like I I’m usually you know kind of sitting there kind of correcting some narratives and pointing out the facts of what people say but just because it’s work doesn’t mean there isn’t an Avenue to make it work better um I I think when I look at you know the most important parts of the core to me it’s the two guards and it’s Mo like I as much as Jared Allen has taken a step forward I think that that’s the most important part because I do not believe that Don can play point guard I do not think that that is something that that works at the highest level I think that lowers your ceiling I think you know when you get to play the best teams in the league um that’s just such a big burden on him um and I I don’t want to have that so getting it to work getting it to to a point where hey let let’s get back to where we were two years ago we in your first year together where it was less your turn my turn where you know Darius in my opinion had the best season of his career the scoring points per game were identical the assist to turnover only Nicola yic among High usage players had a better assist to turnover ratio defensive metrics were up across the board like the only drop off was assists and that’s because you know there was more playmaking happening from everybody else um but I I thought that that was his best year of his career and I think you know getting an offensive plan that Comforts concerns of hey we’re not going to stick you in the corner like you were in the playoffs uh like we’re going to make sure that that you’re involved we’re going to make sure that Donovan’s getting his playmaking touches you’re both going to get chances to run the offense um and and kind of you know smoothing any issues or or concerns uh or trepidation that you have about game plan that would obviously be a priority um but the nice thing with those guards is the question is making it work on the offensive end people I I think default to oh you know 163 161 it’s not going to work defensively in the regular season they have had a elite defense with both of them on the court in the playoffs they have had an elite defense with them on the court with just one big whether that’s Moy or Allen they have had an elite defense with both guards and just one big on the court like I I think that is really really really important data because offensively I think both can play on and off ball and I think it’s good for both of their careers uh and and you know maximizing their talents that they maximize their ability to play both on and off ball because I I think you know whe whether it’s Darius um you know being a primary initiator or whatnot if he’s going to you know win uh as part of a championship level team he’s going to need to play with a high usage player and as a result of that he’s going to need to know how to play off ball for for Donovan standpoint you need to have a playmaker to handle those responsibilities and keep him in the role that he’s best at so um it’s going to be really really interesting but I I think to me if you’re talking about what aspects of the Court are prioritize that’s really what I’m looking at I think you’re yeah you’re 100% 100% spot on just in that evaluation I think this is a bit of a good um pallet cleanser just for I think everyone to for us to have this conversation just because I feel like a lot of people are like oh let’s just like you said I’m just scrolling through it now people like blow this up also I just saw Donald Trump got a clean clean sweep on the uh verdict so you know 34 and0 good for him I guess um but either way uh in a more basketball sense of things um yeah it’s they’re in an interesting spot I think people are really underselling how talented this team is because the returns are just not worth what the Cavs are probably looking for unless you know trades happen anywhere like they could be a lot more Dynamic and a lot more just like but you said at the very very very very top like when you had your conversation with Chris feor like if it’s a guy you view as a core player if you’re going to trade them you have to find a player that is going to equal that talent but also improve upon that talent that you already have and I think that’s just people are rushing to conclusions because either they’re bored and they want to see the Cavs do something exciting but we’ll see what the next steps are but man I thank you for your time I appreciate it and as we head out of here uh you had mentioned you guys are coming back on Tuesday uh tell me tell us tell us more about that maybe if you’re a little teaser if uh Carter is going to let you uh well I’m the one that does the show planning here so you know I’m the brains behind the operation I’m pretty sure we’re coming back uh Tuesday uh 99% sure we got to look at the schedule again uh but you know just I I think what we’ll be looking at is kind of an overview of the last two seasons right look at Kobe alman’s press conference we we got to talk about the JB firing uh because that that’s happened since then but really kind of looking at the data of what we’ve learned from the last two years what we’ve learned from this playoff run what’s actionable and you know know like I I said earlier man like you got to make tough decisions based on on limited and incomplete data but you do still have some stuff to look at right you still have uh you know the the data points that are available to you and that’s what the team’s going to have to work at so um I’m interested in kind of diving in been doing uh some some research over this break uh you know just kind of looking at the pairings and and whatnot and um yeah I’m excited to start talking Cav again man um you you mentioned a draft it went right over my head I haven’t done any draft prep yet so we’ll need to have an expert on for that um but we will have that coverage eventually as well just just not next week we we we’ll push that back a little bit more I’m going to procrastinate no I totally get it if you told me I was a draft expert in any stretch of the imagination I’d say no like I I think told me I was an expert at anything I I’d say no I’m just someone that talks a lot that’s that’s a fair way to put it but you know um I think like Tony pesta said it best the other if you put any c any draft prospect that could be in range at 20 in front of you I’d say like yeah I can see a fit and then that’s what I’d say CU I don’t really understand the full depth of anything but um yeah Justin thank you for your time uh everyone go check out the chase down with their back and all their Cals coverage and until next time I’m Evan damarell that is the chase Downs Justin Rowan and this has been lock on Cavs

On a new episode of Locked on Cavs, for the final time, Evan Dammarell (@AmNotEvan, Right Down Euclid) is joined by Justin Rowan (@Cavsanada, The Chase Down Podcast) to bring Evan’s Cavs podcasting career full circle to discuss the viability of the core four, what offseason moves the Cavs should focus on and much, much more.

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