A Boston Celtics NBA Finals Preview With Ryen Russillo

A Boston Celtics NBA Finals Preview With Ryen Russillo

this episode of The Old Man of the three is presented by BMW the brand that is constantly raising standards for performance and Innovation BMW the ultimate driving machine welcome to the old man of three with JJ reck and Tommy alter brought to you by 342 Productions this is episode 240 Ryan rillo Tommy we um Talk a ton about the Boston Celtics uh a little bit about the Western Conference still waiting to see what happens there we are recording this on Thursday after afternoon a the day of game five of the Western Conference Finals uh lots to get into with russill before we do that um let’s do the draftking sports book segment um you know I was thinking about this because we talk with Russillo about Jason Tatum uh you bring bring up a great question during that conversation and uh there were some back and forth uh on some different sports shows about Jaylen Brown winning the MVP in the easn Conference Finals over him um and whether or not Tatum looked happy I just hate I hate when we get into that stuff I don’t insane we all I know is all I know is when Boston one game four and he threw the ball up in the air and he went and started shoulder bumping and chest he looked pretty happy to me he seemed like he was in a good mood seemed like he was in a good mood um Finals MVP though Jason Tatum is the odds on favorite we’ve said this Boston is the is the favorite to win the NBA championship Jason Tatum is the odds on favorite to win Finals MVP at minus 150 Luca at plus 270 Jaylen Brown at plus 600 Anthony Edwards at plus 1500 and Kyrie Irving at plus 2200 um so the the the books sort of favor Tatum here and I was thinking about you know this uh series and and we talk about with Russillo and it’s like there’s a scenario I think where uh because of Dallas’s defense and the way they’re going to get into Tatum the way they’re going to get into Brown the way they have size that I’m sure Boston will try to manipulate matchups there’s a there’s an argument to be made that christophs porzingis is the most important player in this series which would be very interesting with his history with the Dallas Mavericks yeah extremely extremely interesting I had one question about this and this is you know obviously don’t know what’s gonna happen tonight but you know if Dallas does advance uh Drew and and Derek we’ve talked almost every episode about a good there defensively but it feels like they they may have some issues size-wise with Luca what do you think that that who’s that is that Jaylen like who’s that initial cover um yeah um I would guess I would probably lean towards Drew holiday as the initial cover uh Derek white on Kyrie um Tatum Brown sort of playing off the ball a little bit with PJ and Derrick Jones Jr uh and then KP and Al uh whoever is at the five you know I think with Drew it’s it’s similar in a way he’s probably a little bit uh shorter but it’s similar in terms of strength and body type and lateral movement as Lou Dort um where Drew on the ball um can be uh physical he can slide his feet he doesn’t really get beat you know off the dribble as much as other players and so Luca creating angles and sort of like you know using his size and strength and girth to like sort of bump off his path and and then create separation that way I think Drew probably of all the guys probably has the best chance of preventing that um the other thing is like when Drew is super engaged and and we’ve seen this and players have talked about this he is really good at not getting screened so his screen navigation and being able to stay in front of the ball uh I think will be huge in this series I could I could see Derek on him I could see jayen on him um I I don’t foresee Tatum taking that matchup just because of that’s typically not how Boston sort of uh operates it’s one of the luxuries they have with having uh White and and Drew holiday but that’s that’s certainly a matchup and then and then you think about you know Kyrie as well potentially in that series not giving up hope with minnes we we very clear with that R we are very clear with that in fact we get into a whole discussion about why we think uh this could you know at the very least be a seven game series one thing we didn’t talk about him which I was I was curious your perspective on is with KP back Boston’s half court D obviously that was something that was not great in the Indie series I mean it’s been it’s been hard to it’s been hard to judge without him in this sort of run even though they they’ve been winning we’ve talked a ton about his impact with offensively and then also he’s been great defensively all year but with the half court D in particular is there something that you sort of is there something that they’re going to do with him with either matchup that you feel like will be sort of a point of emphasis with him back that might change you know some of how that has sort of been for them over the last couple weeks in terms of their half court defense the I I think you want to prevent um Lively and Gafford getting behind the five and pick and roll um because that you know Dallas is great with the lobs I think they have the most lob for dunks uh in the playoffs the other part about it is you know if you do sort of have KP up to touch and the roller Gets behind then all of a sudden you’re pulling over with the low man the other thing Dallas really wants outside of Luca and Kyrie looking for their shots is those Corner threes so I think for for Missoula who’s you know big on math it’s probably KP in a drop and and it’s probably doing as much as you can to play those pick and rolles 2v2 with some help shifts I mean that’s the thing that you know listening to him talking pregame stuff uh about the Pacers it was it was a lot about how can we be better after game one and a lot of it was like how are we shifting off the ball who can we shift off of to create a little bit extra help the thing with Indiana specifically is like they play so fast you don’t actually ever set your half court defense so they get the ball cross half court in 2 to 3 seconds they’re immediately into action um I they’re they’re to me like a hard team to game plan for just because they don’t run set plays they don’t run uh a lot of stuff that’s static it’s all just make or Miss it’s get the ball across half court and attack and they’ve been making a lot like a truly elite shot making I I was so impressed so impressed it was great season shout out to them um all right this has been the draftking sports book segment we are this close to crowning an NBA champ and with the action heating up on the court it’s even hotter at draftking Sportsbook an official sports betting partner of the NBA download the draftking Sportsbook app now and use code JJ that’s code JJ for new customers to get a no sweat bet up to 1,500 bucks if your first bet doesn’t hit only on DraftKings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1800 Gambler or in West Virginia visit www.1 1800 gambler. net in New York call 8 778 hope Andy or text hope Andy 467 369 in Connecticut help is available for problem gambling call 888 78977 77 or visit ccpg toorgle play responsibly on behalf of booill Casino and Resort in Kansas 21 plus age varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario one no sweat bet per new customer issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuing C dk. cbball for eligibility wagering and deposit restrictions terms and responsible gaming resources let’s get to our conversation with Ryan rousell and stay tuned to the end because we do have a draft and both Tommy and Ryan are a little out of pocket with the draft stay tuned this is uh Ryan [Music] rilla Ryan how we doing man good to see you good to catch up it’s been a while it’s been a while since we’ve had you on the man of the three so I appreciate you joining us to talk NBA Finals Boston Celtics how you doing I am excited I look I’m excited to be on um I I appreciate the invite I don’t even know how long ago was I actually on no wait was he on the ringer one no you were on the ringer one with big cat spring of 2020 during Co oh my gosh you’ve never been on this is your first time on this show actually big cat’s been on but this is your first time I know I wanted to do it in person but you know the finals they don’t take they don’t take time off for anyone even though we’re going to have like a week off all the podcasts run together to me you know we’re just just doing a lot at this point JJ JJ’s doing with M the game now too he’s he’s recording like nine hours of podcast a week last week Ryan last week I had five this is not including like Monday of this week when I had a our our weekly Monday show I did five podcasts and four called four games all on the road it was fun man it was a great week it’s great week very productive got a lot done got a lot done um I being brand I have a I have a general question and and perhaps this was sparked um by a radio appearance that I did yesterday um it feels like the Boston Celtics are the favorites should be the favorites they have done nothing but Excel uh throughout the regular season throughout the playoffs uh certainly you can nitpick certain things but you can nitpick certain things with any team and with any player um my question to you is do you will people in Boston be happy if they if they win they win the championship yeah look I mean you been back in Boston for a little while it’s been kind of interesting to remember that I used to do do the daily Boston radio show thing for like 3 years and we found ways to make ourselves miserable and now being back and listening to some of it I was like oh wait wait did I do these things like is this how I talked about it like already diminishing a potential Championship so like I I don’t think I don’t think talk radio hosts that have a job to kind of engage people is is the best uh test for like how the entire city feel of course they would be I mean this would be the first title since 2008 the second one since ‘ 86 for story France with the resume they have like they’re due for one of these considering this is the what the sixth Eastern Conference Finals in the last eight years I think the problem has been for this team is that when Brad Stevens first came in and they make it to an Eastern Conference Finals in 17 it’s so far ahead of schedule like they were supposed to be on rebuild year number two it’s this really fun Isaiah Thomas season the second scoring option was Avery Bradley so they basically ran high pick and roll for Isaiah every single play and his numbers were massive he was I think fifth in MVP voting that year which is an incredible like single season but it it it’s been now when you think of it like wait this is seven years of this when is it finally going to pay off when I feel like the 17 Eastern Conference Finals is ridiculous they were even in it the 18 they went to game seven with the first year of Tatum the second year of brown so it makes it feel like these guys have been around forever but they haven’t been able to get it done you know 20 was losing I think to a better team in Miami last year was massively disappointing so I think there’s this emotional hangover with this team where 24 can’t live on its own like no one’s going to be happy about anything with 24 the spectacular statistical profile they have smashing everybody in the East nobody cares because they feel like this group has been around too long when I think they’ve just been ahead of schedule and that’s the price that they’re paying I think that’s valid I think that’s valid particularly the part about the emotional hangover because you know I I didn’t do a ton of first takes this year but uh when I was doing them and and when I certainly listen even on sort of national uh discussions and National networks um people always bring up prior years and I don’t think that’s invalid uh because certainly Joe was the coach last year against Miami Tatum and brown have been here forever um Derrick’s been part of these teams now for 3 years I don’t think it’s invalid Al of course is you know he spent some time elsewhere but he’s been on a bunch of these teams the point that I always make though is this team is so different right and and particularly if as we assume christs porzingis is back in the NBA Finals um Derek white is a different player this year Drew holiday is sort of a Swiss army knife that has done everything that he’s been asked of hey you got halberton on you go score great I can go score uh hey we need you to guard embid go do that um get offensive rebounds make defensive plays like he did at the end of game three like he just does whatever and so you can talk about the past but I have a real problem with not acknowledging at least acknowledging how different this team how dude how much better Joe Missoula has been this year as a coach and in his comfort level it’s like yeah that’s fine if we want to talk about the emotional hangover but if we want to talk about basketball this is a different team yeah you’re right I mean the Drew holiday piece of this is ridiculous that you you look at Brad Stevens run through this and he goes okay you know you’re gonna have a really good team so the draft pick’s probably not going to be that great it’s like so wait San Antonio wants to get into the Dereck white business of like moving him okay done like it may be boring for the front office and not worrying about the draft pick and having to scout extra hard before the draft but these are the kind of transactions where you think like that’s a no-brainer the Drew holiday one to be like okay now you’re going to flip the Brogden deal into that and Rob Williams was just never felt healthy even when he was healthy it was like he wasn’t healthy and then you somehow end up with Drew which I’m sure Milwaukee was like wait what happened like I’m sure you know I still think the Bucs would have done any deal that involved them getting Dame and raising their their ceiling potentially with a talent like Dame and then porzingis where I had no issue with them moving on from smart I thought in 22 was like the best smart had played but I’d also watched enough of it to see that smart had moments where he kind of felt like he was the guy because he was the emotional leader but that they could have they could have replaced that with just somebody else who understood the role a little bit better and smart probably understood his best when they went to the finals in 22 so being fair to him but like Drew Dave won is like okay I’m the sacrifice guy you know unfortunately for like Ray Allen when he came in ’08 like he was the one that sacrificed the most but with Drew it’s like okay I already know what I’m going to do I may have my moments where I’m going to be hitting some of these shots and so then when you figure it out with the final porzingis thing he was so good last year he changes who you can be on offense especially if you want to start looking ahead of the Dallas matchup of a big that’s actually going to pull Gafford or Lively away and then maybe challenge Dallas in a way that they haven’t been challenged at all against Minnesota because you know Rudy like if you stretch it just means that you’re just going to ignore him so you’re not really changing your defensive alignment all that much so you’re right they have more options they’re better they’re they’re the best team of this entire group it’s not debatable but I think where they get in trouble is when you look at like the historical comparisons of the 16 Warriors net rating you’re like well they’re not those guys or the second threep Bulls who you’re like well that’s not true or the early 70s Milwaukee Bucks like their profile tells you their one of their team one of those teams and yet I will as somebody who’s watched this team throughout the entire season have these moments where I’m like tie ball game minute left is Tatum going to hold it in the triple threat for 20 seconds with no one cutting and no passes whatsoever and his talent and his size tells him that’s a good shot but it just becomes really easy to defend because nobody else really has to move or anticipate any other stuff because they’ll stop moving they will stop in those moments offensively and that’s the part that I think drives Celtics fans crazy and why despite those numbers and agreeing with you that the the entire sum of this is better than any of these other versions they had this awesome record these dominant wins and yet we still have these moments you’re like I’m not going to trust any of those guys as much as Luca with the ball with a minute left but how much of this discourse is just the overall Tatum disrespect and people being I mean you’re seeing it we saw it after after game four was like people were saying oh he’s not happy enough for Jaylen Brown like like they they zoom in on his face and like he’s not smiling enough there seems like for whatever Reas Smiler I’m not a Smiler like he’s a guy we we’ve we’ve had him on the show a bunch um you he’s a great podcast guest but he seems like a guy that like he lets his work do the talking and he doesn’t need to be front and center all the time and I wonder if that hurts him a little bit in terms of uh like his resume like like R like you just mentioned speaks for itself from when he came into the league to what he’s accomplished since then he’s never missed the playoff game he’s played 1008 playoff games at this point like how much of this is just like Tatum disrespect the Tatum part of this always feels like it it’s it’s easy for me which makes it complicated in the way we talk about him because he’s never going to be the best player in the league he’s maybe going to flirt with number five okay made all NBA first team this year he should have I voted him for that like you know I thought that was that was pretty easy to go ahead and make that move to put him on first team but he’s never going to be the best player so you’re going to be kind of pining for like oh is he ever going to be one of those guys and maybe there was a time you thought that could potentially happen but as great as he is I don’t think he is like he’s not yic he’s not Luca he’s not Giannis um I’m not even sure if he’s SGA so that in itself kind becomes like this entitlement thing where you become frustrated that he’s not going to be one of those guys but he also isn’t like extremely disappointing so you can’t really dog him so we I think it should be simple because that’s where he is those are the book ends he’s going to be top 10 for a really long time but because the top five guys seem to dictate titles every single year I think that becomes part of the frustration I also think his demeanor with all this nonsense after the Jaylen Brown thing by the way I think Tatum should have won Eastern Conference Finals MVP I was actually maybe I wasn’t shocked because Jaylen Brown had the two moments but I just think as far as like which player is dictating what’s going on more and which player is dealing with more and dealing with the tougher defensive assignments I was a little disappointed to see the voting go that way but I wasn’t as outraged as say 2015 with the NBA finals in Iguodala got over Curry but I just think the voters have a harder time with that stuff but Tatum is the face of a franchise where you know the the dumb way we look at this stuff whereas like Jordan’s better off you know not losing in the finals is great but LeBron losing in the finals and not losing the Eastern Conference Finals has somehow seemed worse you know like if if Jordan had had losses outside of the finals that’s better on the overall resume because he gets to say six and0 or like I wonder sometimes tat and brown if they had been better off never getting to the Eastern Conference Finals as many times like having their only two Eastern Conference Finals appearances be in 22 and then in 24 it reminds me a bit of Ohio State like back 15 years ago when Ohio state gets blasted by Florida and LSU and everybody’s making fun of Ohio State and they’re going well wait like we’re at least making it to the national championship game and some of you guys can’t even win seven games and you’re making fun of us like what’s the point so the stakes and the attention as we all know rais the deeper they go into this and these guys have been going so deep and they play all the time in a league where we’re like hey how many games is that guy going to play is that a good contract is that guy going to shut it down is that guy even going to be healthy these dudes play all the time so I I’m personally like hey I know who he is I know what his ceiling is and that’s awesome you should be thrilled you have him but it does feel like it’s more negative around him than it should be yes and I think this is the case with several players where pundits want them to be the number one or the number two guy in the league and it’s not it’s not feasible given given the timing of everything and we we like always want more out of guys and we’re like to me it’s like well do do you want do you want 31 10 and six in a Conference Finals right do you want that because that’s pretty good and and to your point about the MVP I actually didn’t have a problem with it either if I had had a vote I would have voted for Tatum and that’s not a knock on Jaylen Brown because he had the 40-point game in game two he had the tying shot in in game one of course Tatum had 10 and overtime um and then you know he made the he made the play at the end of game four to Derek white plus the block right so I I I totally and he was awesome the whole series they had no answer for him off the dribble he got in the paint whenever he wanted to um but it in some ways it’s like it’s not as egregious as 15 and even last year with with the Eastern Conference Finals what it was like should we give the MVP to Caleb Martin it’s like no come on man Jimmy Butler’s the MVP or in 22 they’re like hey Wiggins is playing great in the finals should we give the finals MVP to Wiggins just please just give it to the best player unless the best player sucks and has an awful finals and like gets bailed out like Tatum didn’t get bailed out he he was the guy who who who did Aaron E Smith guard the entire Series right see that’s my whole thing tat on Tatum and and I’m not going to not go long here but like when I watch the way the defensive assignments lined up throughout the entire playoffs for Tatum here it’s like okay so they got they’ve got Caleb Martin on Tatum and then Heroes on Brown so guess what the offense does because the Celtics been around and they’re smart Brown starts abusing hero and so then I was waiting for Cleveland I’m like what’s going to happen here okay aoro is on Tatum and that means stru is on Brown because the Cleveland even if they had been healthy were have all sorts of matchup issues with the four perimeter guys that Boston has with Garland and Mitchell in the mix so then you’re like okay so it actually got so ridiculous they switched it and put a coral back on a brown but that’s not how it started and then I knew to your point with this series I’m like okay so n Smith who you could probably call a foul on every possession he works his ass off he’s going to be all over Tatum and I think that part of it gets lost in you know I’m not trying to knock Brown here I just whenever I look at the two I yeah not it’s not a knock on Jaylen Brown there’s never a moment match up he did get like um do you think that let’s let’s look forward a second um and and we’re recording this the day of game five of the Minnesota Dallas series um but I do think there’s a little bit of a sort of commonality between these two teams in that uh they do have two in the case of uh in the case of Minnesota multiple bigger Wing Defenders right Dallas has PJ Washington Derrick Jones Jr uh sorry Josh Green is no slouch he’s kind of in that Aaron n Smith mode defensively where there’s a lot of ball pressure you can make an argument that he fouls every play uh he’s gonna literally whatever minutes he gets he’s going to fight his ass off um and then with Minnesota Anthony Edwards uh nikel Alexander Walker of course Jaden McDaniels so there’s not necessarily the the the matchup off the gate with one of these guys that they can just go to automatically so it will come down I think a little bit to matchup manipulation and then in either case whether it is Gafford and Lively or whether it’s coar towns and Reed how do we get these guys away from the basket how do we get them into space Did you ever play the over-under game with your friends you know think I can eat that slice of pizza in under 30 seconds or I know it’ll take you over a minute to down that two leader if you have then you’re going to love pick six the new Fantasy game from DraftKings an official partner of the NBA here’s how to play during the NBA Playoffs pick between two and six players and choose if they’ll have more or less of a stat rebounds points assists and more track your picks and play against others for a shot to win huge cash prizes download the new DraftKings pick six app now and use code JJ for a shot at huge cash prizes that’s code JJ Only on DraftKings pick six the crown is yours gambling problem call 1 1800 Gambler 18 plus in most eligible States age varies by jurisdiction eligibility restrictions Supply Pi six not available in all states including but not limited to Connecticut and New York for up- to-date list of states visit dk. c/p states void wear prohibited see terms at pick six. draftkings.com promos yeah I mean if we’re still playing with and I think we should which I’m glad you did kind of the fairness of like history being made with Minnesota although it doesn’t feel all that likely with the way Lucas played but the one thing I keep getting to is how important porzingis is in this entire equation because even though Horford stretches you more so than Rudy does or more so than Lively or Gafford ever could porzingis adds a whole another element to this and that’s just going to open up some things where when you look at some of the paint totals throughout these series you’re just like look Oklahoma City can’t seem to get there ants turning down and you know that’s always the burden of the star especially with somebody as Dynamic and as athletic as ant is we’re constantly like how come you can’t just get to the hoop how come you just get to the hoop and you rewatch a play and you’re like there’s a a triangle of humans waiting to intercept him and we still want him to go ahead and attack and yet there’s a big that’s always lurking because the big you they can try to stretch it with cat a little bit but cat’s been so bad shooting that even when he’s open I think a lot of his looks have actually been good throughout this series they haven’t had to pay a price price for any of that stuff so I’ve felt like even though the momentum of Dallas and playing much better teams than Boston has played to their side of the playoffs as I try to figure out like which way I want to go with this I think it’s going to be entirely different with pingis being healthy because it’s adding this element of somebody you actually it’s it’s not just him where he’s positioned you’re going to have to contest those shots based on his three-point shooting and Gaff and Lively have not had to do that at all because goar is still going to play almost 40 minutes a night in this series because the second he’s out despite my own Rudy stuff where I don’t love all of it as soon as he came out I brought this up in my pod look at those minutes to close the third quarter as soon as he was gone and Minnesota went small Jaden Hardy Kyrie they were like it’s on it was just absolute like feeding time and how easy they get to the rim and I’ve seen those possessions happen with Luca as well but I think the Boston stretch part adds something in that Oklahoma City thought they were going to have with Chad but it just wasn’t enough there weren’t enough options yeah and and two and I’m not saying it’s it’s Minnesota’s going to pull off sort of the inevitable here um but you know you think about uh and and I think this applies to Dallas too uh you you think about the way Boston spaces the floor almost always five out unless they’re sort of posting up um they’ll throw a little bit of Drew or Derek in the dunker spot after a cut um but there’s there’s inherently space on this team because they’re almost always with the exception of Luke cornette in their normal rotation they’re almost always playing Five Shooters at a time and so the The Gafford Lively goar right them on the floor what is that preventing it’s preventing where Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum excelled in the IND Indiana series which was getting to the basket and scoring at The Rim Jaylen Brown had 50 paint points going into game four he was scoring over 16 and some of those of course were in transition but he got wherever he wanted in the half court Tatum the last two games just put his head down got to the Rim made plays out of that so I I I think to your point about porzingis and I’ve said this now for the last week his health and him just being at least at the very least an approximation of who he was in the regular season and who he was last year with Washington that to me is a real Advantage creator for the Boston Celtics the only game that these two teams played uh post trade was on March 1st uh Boston blew him out 138 110 uh Lively and Josh Green were actually in the starting lineup Gafford only played five minutes and Derrick Jones Jr only played seven minutes but porzingis had 24 on eight of 14 from the field so you know we I I’m going to rewatch the tape over the next week I I I don’t really know that that’s necessarily a good sort of uh summation of everything particularly because you know that was right around the time when Dallas right before I should say right before Dallas all of a sudden became the best defense in the league right the last 20 games of the regular season there’s obviously some noise but they were the stats say they were the best defense in the league you watch them playing the playoffs and you’re like oh you know yeah you have Luca and Kyrie this team their identity it is based on defense and in particular the the size the length Gafford Washington and Derrick Jones Jr uh so I don’t know that there’s a whole lot to gain from any regular season matchups in that case um do you do you feel like we’re just because I want to quickly touch on this um and we have no idea what’s going to happen tonight but do you feel like there’s certainly a scenario where we see a game seven in this Minnesota Dallas series I do but I think it’s stubbornness I was just so impressed with Minnesota against Phoenix and the way ant was going at KD and it was fun like we love new new is like the most valuable thing ever in sports because we’re all hoping to see something we’ve never seen before and that’s why I think you know wanyama there’s so many of us that are like what’s actually going to happen here and with anunt as this was all playing out as much as like I think early on I didn’t really know what to make of him before the draft JJ but then pretty quickly I was like wait have you guys been watching this guy like this some of the stuff this guy’s doing is insane and then he takes to another level and then this year you’re like this guy’s my favorite player to watch he’s my favorite player you know which is hard to take the belt away from from Steph for me but when I when I started thinking about like am I actually going to pick a 22-year-old to get out of the West as the lead guy like am I going to be able to do that and you know there was the clutch offense stuff in the regular season which I think is playing out the concerns I had about it now I’m like hey this is kind of why you were you were but you got to pick somebody and we all knew that the West Was was just so deep at the top with all these different scenarios that could play out but for what they did against Denver whether it was the defense in game two or to come back down 20 against them in game seven I’m like all right I guess I guess it’s okay like I guess it’s okay to go ahead and do this and the irony of the way this series played out is that we were wondering if if Ant could deliver on all the these things that are so hard to deliver on because the normal course the normal timeline for NBA star is all right top draft pick score a bunch of points make some All-Star games get your sneaker deal get the Max rookie extension and then it’s like year six or year seven you’re like does this guy suck you know I thought this guy was supposed to be good this guy sucks because most most of the guys haven’t won by then and it just like imagine the way we talk about Giannis right now and the and the funniest part about the way the story lines have played out here is that Luca actually is delivering on every expectation we’ve ever had for a star especially if you were to finish this thing off and get a title at this age and with the numbers and the fact from day one that he was in the playoffs there was never ever doubt any doubt whereas when I’m watching ant some of these games going maybe he’s just not ready maybe he’s just not ready yet maybe these is the part of the learning process you need to get from all this stuff that Luca is actually doing the things I was wondering if Aunt could do so yes that’s the long way to get to I’m always like wondering when it’s going to happen and the fact that we almost had it last year but I thought Boston was so much better than Miami it made a little bit more sense I’m still going to be worried about Minnesota’s closing prowess where really I don’t know that it was that they were killing it on offense as much as Dallas just couldn’t hit a shot for the first time in the series so it’s probably because I picked in that I’m I’m leaving the sver of Hope but I don’t really believe it this is my question I was going to ask you um having played in a lot of game sevens and you look at how close the series is six six game s six game sevens I guess that’s a lot aot I would say that defin question again this is for not for you oh okay why has this not happened oh um man I do you remember the stat around how many teams have actually forced a game seven obviously Boston did last year yeah was Boston the first to ever do it or the maybe the second or third like I I feel like that’s that’s the reason why it’s um and and honestly uh you know Minnesota because of how this whole thing played out uh in some ways they’re they’re set up because they you know they get the the game seven at home um it’s you know it’s similar to to um when we lost to the Houston Rockets uh being up 3-1 right we have to go back game five’s in Houston okay now game six it’s on us CU none of us wanted to go back to Houston for a one- game situation where anything can happen so yeah you know it’s it’s in some ways it’s set up to get back to that game seven if they can of course take care of business and then you feel I I think you feel a little bit of you know pressure uh but 2010 Boston Celtics Conference Finals didn’t feel that pressure in game six with us trying to come back from three and beat the [ __ ] out of us um it’s just that’s I mean that it’s so hard I I’d say every single stage of the playoffs it it just becomes harder and harder to just win a game much less three games much less four games in a row to a team that has already beaten you three times it’s just it’s just tough and Ryan I I I mean I know you’ve heard me talk about this I I think the mental physical emotional toll of one playoff off game is so high and the mental physical and emotional toll of an elimination game is even higher now let’s extrapolate that over two three four games I think as much as we can sit there and digest x x and O I mean there there is an element of of that and why it’s so difficult to come back from down three out it’s happened four times just so you guys know thanks Jason thanks for tuning in hey I’m just I’m just trying to provide some information here four times so I think it’s yeah so that means what like four times out of the 150 I think we’ve had a three 0 series lead because I was looking at the number the other day and it was more than half of them ended up being sweeps so yeah it it doesn’t it’s not like I always have this saying about the playoffs like especially when a team I like is down 02 I’ll just go hey you can’t fake desperation like you say all the right stuff you can come out of the tunnel you be like hey don’t even let them breathe don’t even let them breathe but the the team up 20 cannot match the desperation of the team that is down 02 but then to say okay let’s gear it up again let’s match our desperation that we had yesterday and I just love your point because for all the projections and this guy does this so that means he’s going to do this and there’s just a lot of players who I really like in their first run through the playoffs I’m like he doesn’t want the ball right now like there’s no number that was ever going to predict this this guy does not want the ball right now and this is a really tough spot for them and I think we forget because it’s not as physical as say football or hockey we forget just how hard it is how hard the playoffs are and to keep this going through two months do you think the you mentioned the the mental stress of winning a single playoff game do you think with where we are in this 24hour 247 news climate of you win a game four you’re the hero you lose the game five you’re a choker you’re a disgrace you win game six you’re back do you think it’s gotten worse yeah yes but if you want to tune in this uh month’s episode of islands in the league presented by draftking Sports Sportsbook our exclusive YouTube video series I touch on this very topic Tommy I will leave it at that because uh we need people to watch that what do you think what do you think Grillo about this about like we we always talk in the office over here about just like what’s on first take what’s trending but it was I saw it a lot for example in the Pacers nickies Series where it is depending on what happened in that series you’re like oh the Pacers are historical chokers and then they go and they win game seven and then they’re Heroes again you know and then and then they go lose game one in Boston they blow game one in Boston and then they’re chokers it’s like and so some of it is just blocking out the noise but do you think that is just as a not even just as a player but somebody involved with a team in an organization at a certain point it becomes just like let these things play out a little bit well somebody who did the job every single day for a really long time I can tell you to let things play out doesn’t work when you have three hours to fill every single day just doesn’t you know with college football we get this first committee rankings and people are like beside themselves you’re like okay but all these teams are going to play each other but yeah where’s your segment though right so I’ve made the joke that I think like Monday after Super Bowl we shouldn’t be allowed to be on the air because that’s when we’re our absolute dumbest because no one would ever say like if you were on get up or First Take and you said coming up or like hey this team won the championship and why I think the eighth best team I’ve ever seen people be like what why would eighth best team you have to say you have to say maybe the best team ever that’s why I always joke like after team wins a championship I just send out a constant tweet that’ be like safe to say Atlanta Braves best baseball team of all time and then people like don’t get the joke and I just do it every time because I’m just making fun of how how ridiculous it is like when Joe Flaco turned into Joe Montana for four games and Van Pelt and I were arguing all the time because I was like I don’t think FL that good I can’t believe people think this guy’s better than Matt Ryan most of the time it’s just the defense and then he lights it up four straight games Vel comes in being like C are you ready to retract what you said I’m like I don’t know I still think he’s pretty average to be honest with you and it was like the Monday after he just won a Super Bowl and people think I’m the [ __ ] and I don’t think the job like allows you like if Luca wins the entire thing no one’s going to be allowed to say joic is the best player in the world I’m going to say it I’m just going to be like yeah Luca’s awesome I had him two in m VP voting I think he’s the second best guy in the world out of the 8 million people I think there’s only one person better than him that’s still a pretty high ranking but it’s like what are you doing he just won a title the other guy’s at home you can’t possibly see that so I don’t ever remember it being this like we just turned the page so fast on this stuff because you almost feel like you’re the idiot for holding on to the stubbornness of your position where I just don’t think we should be updating who the best player in the world is every single year I don’t think it changes hands that many times I agree with you on that and and you know in particular um if you if you want to just every year uh make the blanket statement that the best player on the best team is the best player in the world just be consistent with that I have no problem if that if you’re just going to change your mind every year based on who the best player on the best team is that’s fine but we unfortunately like this is a this is a team sport and and so much is required of everyone you know coaching staff uh role players the second star um it’s it’s it’s hard to just change every two or three months based on what is happening around the league I I think it’s not clear I don’t want to use the word clear because my words get so misconstrued I I think it’s clear though that there is a is a different tier of player right and and in general it feels like there’s two to four Four Guys year to year that are just different maybe some years it’s one or two I don’t know um you know I think some years it is like and I really think about it there have been years where I go I think there’s three guys that give you a real chance and the rest all have to worry about everyone else that’s how special I think that group is and why you know I was talking to a coach this week right and we were talking about the Western Conference finals and he goes look man sometimes it’s just simple he’s like when your guy’s better than their best guy and and that’s what this has been started yeah but I but so so that and I’m glad you brought up that that statement because I think everybody’s talking about the passing of the torch and you you you know you brought up SGA you brought up Anthony Edwards we’ve talked about Luca we’ve talked about yic you brought up Giannis right you know I I think having that one or two the first or second best player in the world I think it matters less than it has in any other point in time I think the depth of good teams not going to say great teams but the depth of good teams and the the um Talent being spread out across multiple teams and they’re being you go down the list of guys in the Conference Finals right now the the amount of really good like guys with stones role players that are able to impact in the playoffs it just feels like there’s a lot of them and so the old adage of like well who’s the who’s the best player in the series that’s who I’m picking that team I just I don’t it doesn’t feel that way to me anymore it doesn’t otherwise Denver would have beat Minnesota they would have right yeah it’s that’s not that’s not I just don’t feel that way about the NBA anymore I think you need to have a team and you need every single guy within reason to be good to beat another team at this stage of the playoffs in the NBA I don’t think you can get away with like hey we got two or three guys and we got [ __ ] we got four holes but you know what our two or three guys are so damn good we can fill the holes I just don’t think you can do that anymore well this would be a bad example to say that you’re wrong this season because the depth and the way the role players have just stepped up for Dallas who you’re like what like okay all of a sudden PJ Washington is be guarding SGA and he’s going to make all these shots through stretch I know he’s he’s been struggling with this series compared to the Thunder one but then you get Derek Jones defensively and a rookie and Lively like makes these amazing reads off the Luca double teams like how is this all happening at the exact same time where the boss in depth there’s just more familiarity with what they have and then Minnesota you just go through the list but maybe we’ll get to cat a little bit later uh okay so so maybe this is the year or maybe this is a transition with the second apron coming into the NBA that you actually have to be smarter around the edges than you have have to be of just blindly putting Talent together because Brian hold on one second because I want to be clear I’m not saying that this is the first year and I’m not saying this has been a longtime tread I I I’m I think I’m saying exactly what you’re saying which was the league was headed this way it was trending this way and this year is the perfect example of what I think will be the case going forward I’m glad you brought up the second apron please please continue but I think I think we’re agreeing here on what we’re saying yeah correct cuz we had an arms race in the NBA for like a decade okay and it starts with Miami and LeBron and then that transition to the Golden State where the second version of them with the rant and then you have like okay so what am I doing here like I know everybody likes laughing at the Nets 29 other GMS would have done that they would have been like wait so I get Kyrie and KD okay like done um I think the mistake every other GM would have the they made was trading jar Allen wait the M yeah the Jared Allen part of that like that that but but seriously that was that the AG with you yeah you get you get at that stage in time you get Kevin Durant and Kyrie every single time every single time so like can look at the S the SGA transaction and go wait what did they do you like okay so just so we’re on the same page you’re the GM you’re sitting there with your owner and you go okay so if we traded these guys and like we do really like SGA hell we drafted him and it’s a lot of picks there’s a lot of risk involved but this means we’re going to get Paul George and Ki Leonard we’re going to have them on our team holding up uniforms at the presser tomorrow you do it so whenever I think of like you know the market for Kyrie was terrible there’s still a team willing to give him nine figures because of the talent in the hope and they were kind of not like Allin it wasn’t some massive price that they paid for him but I we were kind of talking this out and not so much disagreeing is I’m wondering if like whenever I think about all the times I’ve talked to general managers and it just defaults to like yeah that guy’s just way better like it was kind of my thought of the Clippers series in the beginning against Dallas where you’re like ky’s going off so that ends up being a good bet Harden had actually a couple moments there um it wasn’t it wasn’t consistent throughout the playoffs as we understand with Harden’s resume but it was it was like oh wait this is why everybody still keeps trading for these guys and maybe we’ll throw a three-year deal at one of them for n for 90 to100 million because they’re that hard to get even if some of the names we’re talking about are flawed so I don’t know if we’re in a transition where would the league actually start saying like I know that guy’s way better but I want fits and I need to be better with my fits because of the second apron don’t you guys think and this is just sort of adding on to what you’re saying like The Gafford pickup I remember at the deadline we talked about these things even Derrick Jones like when when they brought Derrick Jones in that’s adding you have the guy in luuka you have the other guy in Kyrie but it’s adding these pieces that like anyone could have traded for Gafford anybody could have sign Derrick Jes Jr so it’s so that that’s just that’s good management that’s like Nico that’s Nico finding those guys and being like they fit with our star yeah I think to Ryan’s point I think it I think where we were and I’m not saying I’m not saying this is going to be definitive to the end of time of the NBA but where we were we were in a cycle of if you have the opportunity to go get a top 10 top 15 player you do it every time and you don’t worry about your depth and you just we you just do it and you figure out the rest later I think what we’re saying is and Phoenix is a great example of this right this year I think what we’re saying is is that you you probably at this stage and going forward if you look at uh basically all of the teams now that have had success this year in the playoffs I don’t think I’m you know I don’t think I’m missing anybody that made the second round here they all have young Stars they all have great role players under contract right they all have I think all of them have most of their if not all of their draft picks or at least have some flexibility so the roster building now is not just hey you know throw the kitchen sink at a top 10 to 15 player and worry about the rest later I mean to me if we’re going to talk value now it’s like how do you how do you hit on the minimum guys how do you fi you know this is every year for since whenever but H how do you find rotation level players after the lottery and and then it’s like what do you value your role players as what do the Knicks value hartenstein has this summer right that’s are that’s a key piece for them and he’s he’s going to be wanted by by some teams on on the market if I’m if I’m the Detroit Pistons yeah I I would like that guy on my team I would like that guy on my team so that that’s that’s kind of how I’m I’m just that’s kind of how I’m looking at it I’m spitballing here but that’s how I’m looking at it yeah my thing with rooll guys and this was something I think was lost on some of the rebuilds that we had and maybe some of the more analytically driven front offices and I’d probably bring up hinky as the prime example of this um but these are just the lessons that I’ve been taught over 20 years AG going to draft camps and the combine and everything and being lucky enough to get to know a lot of these guys that do it for a living but they like if you have 15 guys that are all young to fit your rebuild timeline and JJ knows this is well like somebody who’s drafted 28 thinks he’s going to be a Hall of Famer he doesn’t he doesn’t think like hey maybe I’ll get minutes in the right matchup here it it takes you a little while like any profession but this one’s cooler to get kind of those professional scars to go oh wait maybe everything doesn’t really work out for me and i’ I’ve got to kind of find my role you need to have you know 10 guys eight that know they’re playing four or five that know they’re never playing and with some of these rebuild teams they’re just like oh talent talent talent and maybe we’ll strike on this guy or bring this guy from The g- League it’s like you can’t have your entire roster being guys that don’t know what their NBA reality is right now and when I look at role players or projecting okay what if Donovan Mitchell goes here again I’m not calling Mitchell a role player but I’m like okay I need role players to complement each other not get in each other’s way and not overlap and it’s the same thing for the stars and when I look at Dallas like drick Jones Jr’s on his 15 PJ Washington got to come home Lively’s too young to be mad about a Gafford platoon right Josh Green who every time I see him in the game I feel like he’s impacting the game the right way and add in that Jaden Hardy out of all people who was you know the old Eddie House scattering report joke won’t shoot unless he has the basketball like Hardy was that guy in the g-league and even with his athleticism like dude I don’t know can this guy be brained in at all it’s it’s part talent but it’s also a big part of this is your personality makeup for accepting like hey I may never dribble now the rest of my career I’m never going to be allow to like create off the dribble and in some of these these these roster turnovers I think people lose sight of that or maybe they had for a while because I think a lot of teams are just like hey cool we have all 19 to 22 year olds because we’re young and we’re finding Talent and we’re going to rebuild it’s like yeah but you have 15 guys that all think they’re supposed to be the first option here’s a question I have for because you brought them up earlier and and I I I mean this question in a very positive way where where do you where do you think Carl Anthony towns has grown in that regard because it felt like to me this year it was a little bit of letting go of sort of being the guy recognizing that ant is the guy recognizing I can still have a starring role just in a slight different way um where do you think he grew the most this year as a player it’s probably the only thing I like about him as a player that the ant part of it was undeniable like he had to you know I remember Dwayne Wade and I brought this up a few times but when LeBron got down there and then it was like this whole idea after they lost to Dallas that Wade had to relinquish the team to LeBron and let it be LeBron’s team and I think Wade did like seven different interviews where he was like you know and I I let LeBron I was like dude he’s better than you okay and Dwayne Wade’s awesome but guess what LeBron’s like arguably one of the three best guys that have ever played this game so I think it’s probably smart for whatever hierarchy you think you have on this team to let it be his so I don’t know how cat I mean cat could have gotten more in the way but I don’t know how you feel about this I find cat incredibly frustrating okay uh the the level of of plays that just are so dumb like he threw an entry pass to rudo with 2.5 seconds left in the shot clock in game four you’re like dude what are you doing and then Rudy’s over there trying to do some hem elijuan workout video and guess what the shot didn’t get off in time um the fouls where he decides to just reach 50 feet away from the hoop where I thought cat’s defense against joic with goar floating depending on which game you’re getting for Aaron Gordon is the entire reason even though yic still put up huge numbers and I still think his third quarter in game five is like one of the best basketball moments I’ve ever seen um those parts from cap were like hey this this is cat like finding ways to impact the game but it’s not just his Miss shots that’s frustrating the drives like he never seemed to understand that he couldn’t drive against derck Lively the only time he figured out he could like finally Lively gets hurt it’s like oh wait he’s not there anymore so I don’t think he understands or sees the game I think he was somebody that was the top pick that made some all-star teams that had a little bit of shine when they did the GM survey they actually start one year he won who would you start your franchise with towns was the first overall pick of anyone in the league to just reize that you know sometimes GMS can get it wrong just like the rest of us but I that’s I don’t I gotta Google that I gotta Google that why you don’t think that’s true I will bet you any amount of money I don’t remember that I’m Googling it right now keep going uh I I I I think he’s kind of one of those guys that’s like an opportunity Allstar where you’re like wow look at these huge numbers and you go okay but why is he getting those it’s like well maybe because he was the first pick and he is skilled and he’s going to get to take 20 plus shots and they’re not going to win that many games and they had tried that and now ant comes along where I didn’t think he was going to be this I mean this is incredible what he’s going to become and and who who knows what it ends up being at the end of it so I know there’s there’s like a bit of a like the deeper you go in the playoffs there happening this with Kyrie too it’s like hey everybody you know whenever somebody says like the the apology needs to be as loud as a criticism whenever I hear that I’m like okay a terrible Point’s about to be made you know or I’ll see a tweet that’s like for the people in the back I’m like okay awful take incoming here uh I don’t really maybe maybe I’m just being too negative about it I don’t see it the same way that I have to sit here and go like man congrats to him for adjusting his role when it’s like you’re not good enough but an aside don’t you think he also deserves credit for meshing with Rudy because that was a big when they when they made the trade it feel like it feels like that was the bigger question than even anything with ant it’s like how are these guys going to fit and they have been able to figure it out right but I mean it made cat’s life easier because he was terrible defensively as the only backline protection against the rim it was terrible so luckily offensively he’s skilled enough maybe the best big man shooter ever stuff just I got so sick of hearing it it’s like you take four threes a game Durk and KD are huge they’re better Shooters than you and they’re more well-rounded Shooters than you so it’s not even close uh uh I don’t I it just seems weird to me guys and I know I’m in the on the in the minority on this one but it just seems weird to be like oh so because you’re not as good as the other guy and you screw up all the time that I’m supposed to praise you for just taking less shots and letting the guy who’s clearly way better than you be the face of the franchise this is all I think ant ant letting cat like be cool with it sitting there at the podium like to me ant’s personality that guy should be a conf resolution guy that guy on planes around the world it is amazing you say that I I was thinking that after after uh the their last press conference every press conference he gives credit to a different teammate every time he finds he finds like a teammate he hasn’t talked about yet to talk positively about this is before I paid attention to this stuff so you were right rillo it was nba.com did a survey of GMS and this was after Carl Anthony Town’s rookie year and he got the most votes he was at 48 % of the GM surveyed would take him number one Co Kevin Durant was 20% and LeBron was 177% now if you think we could redo this in 2016 knowing that we’d still get these eight years of LeBron I think you know we’d probably get some joic votes in there as well I think that was I want to say that was after jokic’s rookie year too I can’t remember what year he came in history isn’t made by playing by the rules but by those who know the the rules and decide to break them anyways I remember when Anthony Edwards was coming out of college during the 2020 NBA draft and there were questions about his competitiveness and his Killer Instinct well I think during this playoff run he has answered all of those questions he has consistently risen to the moment the athleticism was always there but the development in skill set thinking outside the box becoming a complete player he has done it all it’s gotten to the point now where he’s even being compared to Michael Jordan because of his crazy dunks and block highlights and bold Antics on and off the court and I get the MJ comparisons but Anthony Edwards is a player unto himself who is building his own personal Legacy and they said a 100-year-old company can’t innovate and break new ground BMW said watch me BMW pairs elegant design with Advanced engineering while the rest play by the rules the ultimate create their own BMW the ultimate driving machine um real quick because I want to get to the draft um I I don’t know how to say this in like a coherent way but everyone knows I love Derek white and if you were sort of taking all the stars and I mean the stars that impact winning not the guys that put up empty stats if you take all the stars where you say hey if that guy’s my one or two uh I feel like I have a chance to win if you took all of them and you you plac them in a bucket and then you said all right what player do you want now I’m picking Derek white I don’t [ __ ] care who the stars are I’m picking Derek white I think he’s that impactful I think he’s that good the you bring up the personality stuff this dude is just normal man he just can fit on any team he impacts winning he doesn’t need the ball he he can play with the ball he can spot up they run their late game offense with him and he’s got Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown on the team like he’s an awesome player and I’m I’m like racking my brain here and you just I you have such a better sort of historical um knowledge than I do but is there a historical comparison to Derek white when we think about guys that weren’t all NBA guys that weren’t all stars but they were on really good teams and you’re like [ __ ] that guy was the difference or could be the difference between a championship and and and by the way a star players Legacy like that’s how good I think Derek white is okay um I had a name but I I felt like I had to look up what his stats were because the All-Star part of this is going to eliminate like some of the names that I’m thinking of right so it has to be somebody who doesn’t even make an allar te tell me who the name no I was thinking about Joe Dumars but Dumars is historically certainly more high-profile than Derek white is at this point I mean the problem for Dereck white is that he’s just next to these these other two guys that are going to be perennial Allstars so when you okay let me let me think about it in a second but I want to ask you this though and then I’ll come back around to it when you said normal what percentage when you thought about your playing days like hey this guy’s normal what was that number at on each team like this guy’s just normal he’s totally cool with all of it shows up to work wants to do a good job does the right things isn’t a distraction doesn’t have bad energy what’s that number at of a 15 guys in a roster on average yeah I put it at 20% three out of 15 were you normal some years what here’s the thing here’s the thing though I’m a I’m a I’m a admitted psychopath like I’m a sick sick human there an article written about him being a psychopath while I I think I learned and it I learned early by the way I learned after like a year and a half close to end of year two like I learned how to be the same guy every day I learned the value in consistency of attitude and like if if the best teams the best organizations the like do you want to go to work today how many the answer to that question often is how many people in The Practice Facility how many people that ride the team bus how many people that ride the team plate how many people that are in the locker room how many of those people are the same people every day if the answer is well the vast majority of the same guys every day hey it’s going to be a great day of work I can’t I I it’s gonna be a great experience this group will be a great experience so I learned I I had to learn how to do that um and it it took it took let’s say call it two years but would say I would say it’s like three or four on a team that are just like like Drew’s normal that’s the thing with like Joe said this after the game when I which I I found really actually just cool and he was just like you know Joe of course credited his staff credited the organization but he said like this is just a great group I talked to some you know some of their assistants were with me in Philly I talked to them all the time and they’re like dude this is like this is not real Willie Green used to say that about when he was with the Warriors she’s like this is not real you know cuz we have Steph we have Steph and if you have those guys that are just normal that are great in the locker room that are great every day at practice that are great in the games that are not over reactionary to every single thing it makes the experience for everyone better it just does I have I have a name question for both you guys because I’m curious you were his teammate and roommate in New Orleans but Drew’s perception before he got to Milwaukee obviously before the championship before Team USA he was a Max guy so he was getting paid like a superstar but do you think that he would fit into a version of what you’re talking about in terms of his like we used to always talk about like every every player would come on the show and say drew holiday’s the best defender in the league and that’s just would happen it would be the first two months of the show that was like a constant thing but do you feel like he was there were similarities there in in terms of what you’re describing with him when he got to Milwaukee uh with what dererk is sort of doing for Boston now yeah I get what you’re saying and yeah that’s that’s accurate I mean that’s another another guy that’s just normal and and is a pleasure to be around every day um and you know you think about those those situations so we just say Boston for instance with the expectations they have Milwaukee with the expectations anytime you have Giannis on your team there’s going to be expectations the impact of normaly and even keeld and the the same attitude and the same person every day it’s enormous it’s enormous for sure who’s your name I you got somebody for me yeah because if we’re going active right now um because I thought that would be just better to play it out that way instead of just kind of looking up like oh hey you know does Kevin Willis we throw him in the mix just showing up battling for rebounds Jack before Jack was even cool but I think the list of players like I love Lou Dort I love ludor I love what he’s turned himself into you know he’s an interesting guy because he was like a big-time recruit but then it was like oh well I don’t think he’s that much of a prospect and then you just know like he’s going to figure it out and he’s become even more valuable and I think in a weird way like I respect him even more even with Luca’s output in that series he just made it harder he’s stouter and made it harder as opposed to Jaden who we all love as a defensive player just doesn’t have the girth to slow down some of that stuff that’s happening in the high pick and role but DOR run an offense so Advantage Derek white I love Josh Hart I love Josh Hart everybody should want a Josh Hart everybody should Josh har I love TJ McConnell there another guy but but I don’t know I don’t know that Derek white has like this is the thing with there I don’t know that he has a major flaw in his game does that make sense relative to some of the other guys we’re talking about yeah whereas like even there’s Stars there’s Stars r with major flaws in their game in their game there there’s guys that have made all NBA the last two years that have flaws in their game I don’t know that Derek white has like a flaw in his game I mean the only thing I could think about is certain times I think sometimes defensively he’s so good he’s so good with the blocks that then it’ll be assigned to somebody that physically you’re just like okay well this is just unfair but that would be unfair for anybody so then like what are we even talking there’s some there’s some uprightness some uprightness sometimes he you know I he’s so good at the recovery part you know the back Taps from behind the blocks from behind the pass that he broke up that you mentioned on the call like he had had a block earlier and then there was another play to the Baseline where he like reached back where you thought he was completely beat but he was still aware of what was going on behind him and then just reaches up and deflects this pass that would have been an easy two points and it was like a perfect read and you couldn’t even believe as you watched it live and I was glad you kind of like caught my attention keep doing that stuff that stuff’s really good where you’re like hey do you realize how special that is that was the the Obi toppen that he broke up the Obi toppen yeah there’s not there’s I mean there’s very few players in the NBA period And there’s I don’t know that there’s many guards that can make that play because most guards or most anyone in the league would have just been like okay well I showed and now you know I got beat on this one I think it was a switch it was a Veer switch late he tried to peel it he got behind the five Topp and made a perfectly timed France cut from the corner that two-on-one situation that Golden State runs so well or that yic throws to Gordon so well in that dunker spot and it’s like holy [ __ ] he just stayed in the play and special special was that a hammer or horns um I’m kidding I’m kidding I think it was just a normal high pick and roll we’re GNA get into some horn stuff at four o’clock today Boston V2 Boston horns 2 set it’s my favorite thing they run um Ryan let’s do the draft before we begin we wanted to give a shout out to New Era the official cap of the NBA and now the official headwear of old man in the three you can support your favorite team by wearing the same caps that the players do or show off your personal style with exclusive drops shop headwear and apparel and get 10% off when you go to neweracap.com and use code Oldman checkout that’s 10% off your order using promo code old man some exclusions apply and visit neweracap.com om3 if you want to see Tommy and my favorites we’ve got some new er caps behind Tommy Tommy’s wearing a new er cap and I believe you are wearing a alpha Industries New Era New Era bomber collab New Era you’re just New Era out today lo I had to take care of our sponsors BMW with my hoodie so Ryan loves my hoodie by the way he loves super classy all right we are drafting uh best Boston things Boston things Boston Boston things period Boston all right Melle you start uh easy I mean this is Shaq in fantasy back in the day Good Will Hunting smartest kid in the world what’s up that’s your first pick Will Hunting tough and smart pulls Harbor chicks you’re picking the fictional movie character and not the movie itself just to be clear yes okay all the all the other guys H other guys are available will hunting’s your favorite okay got it Judy was a janit solving math problems figure it out I don’t know how I feel about that but okay um I I can’t believe he was still available when I went first uh I’m going to start I’m going to start with um uh Paul rier Paul Rivier no America without him it’s a I mean it’s a great choice I’m like I didn’t think he was going to be there but will Hunting I guess was Paul River a Bostonian yeah was he yeah well counting Boston suburbs I feel like we have to clarify this Boston the Greater Boston area R he was born in the North End okay he was born in the North End he died in Boston yep it was Lexington and Concord where he really made an impact I heard and a silver smith indeed and a silver smith all right uh I don’t really know where I want to go with this one um man I I’m gonna just I’m going to pick um for my first pick I’m going to pick Fenway I’m gonna pick Fenway it’s a good pick and for my second pick I’m going to pick the town the movie The Town interesting yep Big Joe moula guy Big Joe M where is that on your on your uh Boston movie rankings rilla the town yeah uh I’d say well if we’re including television and film I’d say behind Boston Common ahead of Blown Away I don’t I’m not familiar with those me neither I’m not familiar with those all right it’s lofty I mean it’s up there all right my second pick um I think I’m gonna take Bill Russell 11 11 Rings you’re off to a good start I’m not goingon to lie I’m trying to win I’ve lost the last like eight of these I got I need to put a good showing out this time all right yeah okay all right so I’ll take you guys are just picking people I didn’t even I didn’t even the problem we said things yes I I mean okay no problem no that counts no counts I picked Paul R you can pick Tom you can pick people it’s fine it’s fine I just I did not have a I have a person listed Boston things period I don’t need to take them now but I’m going to take him out of respect because the rever pick was wrong you should have taken Joseph Warren um Joseph Warren was George Washington before George Washington he ultimately would have been the president but he died in battle so is that your opinion or is that is Scholars have generally come to the consensus on schol which Scholars any Worth or salt so I guess we got some we got some reading to do after this pod apparently yeah look up Joseph Warren big time he was out there he’s in the mix too all right he was Doctor as well what kind of you what kind of doctor he was amputations how did he die do you know not to be dark well he di a surgeon wow he was a surgeon this is wild no read about how he went down at the end I mean Bunker Hill was the whole reason why they were like we can do this my favorite thing about reading any of this history and those that have followed me before know this is that there’s all these moments that are most Boston moments ever where they were afraid to put the capital in Massachusetts because they were like dude those guys might just secede from the entire thing so we can’t put it there that’s why it was in Philadelphia originally and then when the Virginia militia came up to join forces under Washington right here in Boston right on the common which is you know incredible all the history just permeating through the breeze around you the Boston guys and the surrounding areas would have like rakes and bad outfits like stuff that didn’t even work and then the Virginia guys showed up and like fresh Linens and Polished rifles and the Boston guys were just making fun of them they like look at these loses look at the linen shirts oh fancy rifle huh what are you badass and then they started like brawling with each other and apparently George Washington was just bigger than everybody else now his height has been uh historically exaggerated because the way they measured him I think the first time his feet were broken forward his actual skeleton so he got a couple extra inches which you know it’s kind of like the combine and the way they’ measure you with the shoes so everybody was taller so historic maybe Washington set the tone for that so I think he was more around 6’2 but apparently just a beast of a man so these guys would be fighting each other from different parts of the country although under the same umbrella for a cause and Washington would just rip them apart physically and people were just so intimidated by him but yeah the Boston guys despite the history and The Undefeated record back then for the most part uh not easy to get along which is I guess where we all get it from yeah shocker uh did you know did you know uh Washington’s wingspan by chance um I know historically that’s not something it’s kind of like TJ McConnell not being able to shoot threes you’re like come on JJ talk you know he’s got to do this for our people but uh I don’t know Washington’s wingspan I imagine it’s probably pretty big because he was good at ripping dudes apart okay um I’m going my third pick uh I’m going chocolate chip cookie 1938 Ruth Wakefield one of the great maybe the Great Dessert ever got that in the third round I got that past Will Hunting and Joseph horn warn war war doct Joseph hor Sam Horn though on the board man I I really just I really did not anticipate you guys going the direction you’re going I did not know that I’m not even to say I love that pick in the third round I’m not even G to say it you said B Boston area stuff right all right I’m going to go with the cape which includes all subsequent Islands so I’m going to say the cape um that hurts the entire region of the cape got that um how’ you let that one go dude that was that was your pick and then I man I really love a good Park I really love a good Park so I’m just gonna go with Boston Common I think it’s a just a fine Park not the show just the park just the park no big Park guy no one else has seen the show on this Zoom right now all right those are both good picks Cape is a exceptional value I’m up all right fourth pick um I think I’m going to go with the telephone Alexander granbell 1875 I was I was I was back and forth on this one because there’s been a lot of bad things the telephone has been responsible for but overall if I can snatch set up here I’m happy with it uh you got two my God okay I got two so I’ll take edogg and the Bulldogs you take rockberry edog and the bulog take from Roxberry the berry but not the fruit y’all how do you I don’t are you speaking English what are you say you’ll take Eddie OG and the Bulldogs he has a rapper from Rock put this place in the map I mean I know Guru kind of we should have just said Boston people Eddie OG and the Bulldogs can we find it yeah can we find it on Spotify that one song’s a banger you guys are going to be texting me in a week going we’re actually going to use this in the intro music for game two what’s the song uh I’ll I’ll send it to you f massive song three hey once the CDs came around nobody knew the names of songs anymore it was just like I like 11 four sucks Beno was still on the board you could have picked him yep could have um give me old ironide I’m sorry what ironide old ironide yeah what’s old ironide the ship ship you guys never you guys never done tall ships [Laughter] weekend it’s right here I this is one of these things where it’s like we just don’t spend enough time in Boston to know if three of these things are made up we know Will Hunting was a horrible first pick oh my God but just maybe people in Boston will love this draft but I I personally am at a loss with this well I just I don’t understand what the assignment is clearly but I don’t know that you understand like this is your show and you seem to be not on the same page so I’m just going how do we not understand I understand I’m picking Boston he picked two New England landmarks you guys are picking Underground [ __ ] rappers and and edible treats Eddie I know when I when I think of a chocolate chip cookie the first thing I think of is Boston invented in Boston 1938 all right I’m closing it out so I can’t I can’t pick the USS Constitution you can’t anymore you pick five you could have no that’s all IR side that’s that’s that’s the nickname of the ship we supposed to know why did you just say you constit whatever old iron sign’s your fifth pick all right um I got a lot of options here launched in October of 1797 I want a movie just because I feel like I need some okay the USS Constitution is the ship you’re not saying the actual US Constitution you’re saying the ship is called the USS Constitution yeah but also people here I want to not confuse the people on social media that will see this graphic that think we mistakenly added an S so and also just put old iron sides if they don’t know that read a book Old Iron side we’re just putting old iron side that’s it people that know they know right but it’s plural yeah old iron okay got it um I think I’m going to go with the Departed for my fifth pick okay that’s my favorite the movie best picture why God why is it over I don’t know there’s some there’s obviously highlights and I’ll watch it if I have nothing nothing else going on but it’s just not it’s not as good as the town maybe that’s why I went later is it as good as Boston Common different genres not fair to compare okay all right I’m happy with it in the fifth have you guys ever been to um the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston no sounds cool though took my kids there in the fall it was it was spectacular like one of the best music museums I’ve ever been to in my life I’ve been to a lot of museums I’m not going to pick that just wondering if you guys had been risilla have you been there you’re there right now you can go today I actually I go to the Institute of Contemporary Art more often gotcha how often I have a me membership once a week usually something I missed okay I’m gonna go with I’m gonna go with Boston sports fans in the fifth round and I’m going to include uh as a sub uh you know sub category of that I’m going to include Boston sports radio just love passionate fans Boston sports fans radio big fan of passionate sports fans you know this is a very smart he’s he’s about to spend a lot of time up there he’s just playing to the audience I just love him love him smart smart pick love him I really wanted to go with Wellfleet oysters but it’s too Niche you know what I mean uh Ryan thank you again for coming on the show uh great to catch up and this has been the Old Man 3 draft presented by New Era appreciate you bro

On this week’s episode of The Old Man and the Three we welcome The Ringer’s Ryen Russillo to preview the Boston Celtics (Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown) side of the NBA Finals ahead of their matchup against the Dallas Mavericks (Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving). They also discuss why it’s so difficult for teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves (Anthony Edwards, Karl-Anthony Towns) to make history and win a series after being down 3-0, the importance of finding the right role players on your team in today’s NBA, the role the media plays in player narratives, and much more. They also draft the best things from Boston. Let’s go!

0:00 Intro
8:23 Ryen Russillo
1:08:52 Draft

Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter YouTube channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.