Malice At The Palace (Revisited) [Pistons vs Pacers 2004]

Malice At The Palace (Revisited) [Pistons vs Pacers 2004]

[Music] YouTube what is good we are back with another episode of the king of D show dudes what’s go got to get it out here man you know we got a very very interesting uh very very interesting show tonight I think a lot of people are going to be very very entertained by this um it’s something that has been years in the making for at least for me to make this video 20 years almost to the day we got a few months away from this but by 20 years since this has happened so we are going to be talking about malice at the palace and King I know we both have some uh history with this with our ages we were actually able to watch this live um and to this day it’s still one of the most groundbreaking events has ever happened in NBA history so I just kind of want to get your thoughts um before we kind of dig into this here if there’s anything you kind of want to share about what you remember about the rivalry or anything like that what you what are you feeling um you know what I remember from the Rivalry was you know every time we played the Pacers it was just chippy tough yeah you know um they always is just a really pesky game against the Pacers man they had a tough hard in those team over there just like we did and you know I appreciate every matchup we had against them right you know uh the malice at the palace situation man what I can remember from it man was the disgust I had with some of the the media you know they to make it seem all on Detroit you know what I’m saying not not talking and highlighting the fact that you had players that ran into the stands and attacked the fans first you know what I’m saying whether they throw through things or not that every Sports every sport fans throw things you know what I’m saying so you know you should never go run up into the crowd and fight the if you Ry Artest and if you Stephen Jackson man I was with that I was more pissed than anything so let’s get into that bro because we’ve had a lot of people the P the past few months here um asking us to talk about mice at the palace and we kind of wanted to wait until the time is right um but with us both both watching that game live when it happened I felt like we definitely have to kind of dig into this so we were fresh off a championship right and we were about to graduate from high school we had just graduated high school because it was The Following season um and we were I was coming into this game on a high bro I was looking forward to this game um and let’s just rewind for a second let’s rewind to the Eastern Conference Finals right the previous year when the Pistons and the Pacers met up for what was a six game dog fight it looked like these two teams were going to be battling each other for years like year after year coming into the series just from watching them and that season the Pacers man they were a very very good team they finished with I think it was 61 wins 61 or 62 at least 60 first in the East and they were led by RoR test and Jermain O’Neal now I’m going be honest I feel like Jer O’Neil gets overlooked way too often because in his prime he was in my opinion in my opinion he was a top five point or power forward in his League he was unguardable in the post he could score a will against anybody anybody it was just that his his window was so small so he gets overlooked but I think I really believe that the Pacers would have also beaten the Lakers that same season in the finals and that’s taking nothing away from my team right but I feel like the Pacers just matched up with them just as well as we did and so when you think about RZ right he was one of the best Wing players in the league not just Defenders but players and he actually won dpoy that year we won a championship we beat him in the Conference Finals and like I said that was a blood bath bro it was one of the most physical series I’ve ever seen the offense was ugly and hard to watch but that’s just because the defense was was a masterpiece on both sides and it was a slow paced halfcourt game both teams knew what the other wanted to do on offense it really just came down the will and execution and I think down the stretch the pissing just out executed them just just a little bit they executed a little bit better than Pacers did and we won a six games I think the score was like something like 6965 in game six um but I knew I knew for a fact though even though we won that series even though we won I still knew that or that uh Indiana was going to be a problem so and what made it worse is that they were coached by Rick carile and he had just been fired by the Pistons the year before right because we had got swept by the Nets in the Conference Finals and we got he got fired and we brought Larry Brown in so there was a huge chip on his shoulder too as a whole it was a chip on everybody’s shoulder when it came to us and in that run our finals run man I was I was more concerned with the Pacers than I was the Lakers because of how they matched up once we beat the Pacers bro I felt that we could and should beat whoever we played in the finals whether it was the Lakers or the Spurs yeah because if you remember many people thought that it should have been the Spurs that year in the finals you know that was the same year that Derek Fischer made that shot that turnaround prayer jumper with like point6 left on the clock that won that game that was that Series so and that in large part determined that series for the Lakers and the Spurs so a lot of people feel like the Spurs should have been in that finals but I do think that that 2014 would have beaten the Spurs That season because the 04 team was different from 05 we talk about all the time right right we lost our depth okore corus Mike James Elden Campbell everybody they were all gone only person we added was MC Dice and he was good for us but he’s just one guy so looking back that Indiana team was dangerous so what were your thoughts on Indiana did did they scare you did you feel as if they were a threat did you feel like they would be there in the future you kind of feel like there was they were like a one hit wonder type of thing what was your thoughts about Indiana that right we Indiana was right along with those you know the the new jerseys and at you know back then it was the beaston conference right you know now it’s the leason conference but back then it was the beaston conference um and you know those teams like I said they were built similar you know what I’m saying so it always was a chess match in those games right and it made it even more exciting but at the same time you nervous man because you don’t want your team to lose the series so right I appreciate that type of playoff basketball more than anything right predictable series to me are are boring you know that type of basketball it keeps you on the edge of your seat man it’s nothing like it and then when your team come out as the Victor it’s just all the more better you know so um man that team was a force and just to to you know add to what you said about Jermaine O’Neal Jermaine O’Neal was that dude you know saying point in his career you know I look at guys like him uh Chris Bosch you know some of the bigs in this league because you know when Chris BOS took the Lesser Row in Miami people seem to forget about Toronto Chris BOS reason facts so you know these dudes was real forces legit forces man yeah and um 100% you know like I said man that team that team was built to go up against the Pistons man that team was built right and um you know for our team to to you know pull it out squeak it out like we was doing you know besides this night that we getting ready to talk about yeah man it was exciting I love every abely absolutely bro so I kind of want to set the scene a little bit before we actually play the video um so for those who don’t remember right I think most of most of you guys here probably do but for those that don’t so the date was November 19th 2004 on a Friday night I’ll never forget it it was billan and George Blaha on the local broadcast but this was actually an ESPN broadcast um yes ESPN there was a time when the Pistons were on National broadcast pretty regularly and it happened when they were at the peak of their powers during this run and it was the first matchup since the Conference Finals that we played them and you could kind of just feel the tension you could feel the tension through the TV screen at least I could you could feel Indiana was choing at the bit they were licking their chops they were on a mission it kind of reminded me bro it reminded me of Denver Minnesota right last year Denver what they beat Minnesota in the playoffs and rote to their title but you could see what Minnesota was coming they were coming they were GNA be back and Minnesota was best constructed to beat Denver and they came back on the mission this year and they beat the champ right so like Minnesota Indiana was constructed to beat Detroit who would also have beaten Indiana the previous year and rote to their Championship so would Indiana have beaten Us in the playoffs that’s Following Season who knows could they have yes but to make matters worse in the two in the uh 2004 offseason the Pacers wi got Stephen Jackson man yeah all the smoke Stephen Jackson and he was still in his prime he still a very good player at that time and he fit the Pacers like a glove bro he was they’re missing pieace the same way she was are missing Peace So from tip off bro I knew the P the Pacers were serious they came out looking like a team that they it seemed like they came out like they felt they should have beat us you know they were just a little bit better than we were in every aspect they were a little faster little more physical a little more tougher more crisp on both ends and Stephen Jackson bro he gave them another offensive weapon in a defensive matchup that made it very very tough for us he just looked like the better team that night right so that night they blew us out 97 to 82 and um Reggie Miller didn’t even play that game that’s the crazy part he had a broken hand and so they didn’t even have all their guns and they still were beating us pretty handily on our home court which had me worried so to be fair though like Reggie was older he wasn’t the same Reggie Miller right he was in his last season but he still was effective he actually hit a g he actually hit a gamewinner against us against the Pistons in the 2005 playoffs the following year which we’ll get into later so he was still effective but it was the only time I was really worried bro about another team possibly being better than we were up to that point in our run yeah so it was it was scary man so that so that brings us to the play right the play that actually caused malice at the palace and for context just a couple of weeks before it actually happened Ben Wallace’s brother James had passed away and Ben has openly acknowledged this and he actually said that he was at the time like a powder cake that was just waiting to get triggered off by something into Rhino test right before Rhino test before that hard foul on Ben um Pacers guard Jamal Tinsley I’ll never forget it Jamal Tinsley who I call Mr instigator um he encouraged R our test to take a shot at Ben because I guess our test have felt that Ben had taken a shot at him earlier in the game and so our test was like in his mind winding up but here’s the thing this is the crazy part Stephen Jackson actually heard what Tinsley said to our test and as a result Stephen Jackson was like nah bro so Stephen Jackson on on that play he picked up Ben Wallace on defense that wasn’t his man but he picked him up he was trying to keep our tests away from him right so 40 seconds left in the game down 15 Ben goes to the basket and like I said Stephen Jackson picked him up cuz Stephen Jackson he didn’t want no problems he didn’t even want no smoke he was trying to prevent smoke so when Ben goes to the basket ESS for some reason helps off of his guy and basically like punches Ben in the back and pushes him at the same time right he didn’t follow him straight up he like caught him from behind and so when bro the game was Out Of Reach so it was obviously more than just a foul it meant something you know he was trying to get some get back so and I’m telling you bro you probably tell you can probably remember when he fed him Ben W turned around so freaking quick and when he did that I was like yes this is this is not I I knew something was about to happen I knew it wasn’t gonna be pretty just from his reaction he turned around so fast like oh word and you could see when he turned around you saw Patriot players trying to get over to him because they saw what was going on too so and from that point on is when we have What’s called the moue of the P so now we’re going to go ahead and get into it I just kind of want to paint the scene for those who may not have seen it so with that we are going to go ahead and play it with 24 J O’Neal with 20 and 13 rebounds 15 and six boards for Austin [Applause] closure so this is the previous play St with a of free throws it’s 97 okay now watch out watch watch stepen Jackson down here he’s right here he’s guarding Ben he’s telling him no stay away I got Ben he lets him go and that’s when our chess fouled him you see how fast you see how fast did you see how fast tiny turned around and tried to get over there when B look at Ben instantly turn around he’s trying to come over too late and from here look how small the referee is bro referee you have to be half [ __ ] take a shot at Ben Wallace bro man which Ron arest is half [ __ ] makes sense and now see Ronald chess is in now he’s just he’s trying to taunt Ben at this point yeah Sten Jacks is trying to with d think there also a little bit of shock going through him too at the same time man proba pushed in the head a neck like that probably so you know what I respect I’m g go back a little bit you know what I respect for about this Reggie Miller had a broken hand and look at him protecting his guy no no no y’all not getting over here I respect that yeah I respect [Applause] that you can hear uh Stephen Jackson yelling what are you doing right so watch our test I remember [Applause] this she want to smoke by artz takes you see that he took the he took the the headset off of so now he’s just taunting now he’s just Taun and Reggie’s like bro stop what are you what are you doing and then I think Ben threw his headband at our test yeah and now he’s laying back down he was just man our test was man B still trying to get over there Indiana of he throwing all his wristbands in the crowd and now arest goes into the stands here we go that’s so crazy this is so crazy I’m gonna go back just a little bit this is crazy because the guy that hit him his name is John Green it wasn’t even the guy that ESS attacked right I know was the wrong guy innocent bystander you see this guy right here in the blue who’s behind our test yeah that’s the one that threw it that’s the one that this is the guy that threw it but our test goes after the wrong guy and now this and now he’s grabbing our test after Heely out of wow now watch John Green the same guy watch the same guy this is the crazy part you’re going to see him try to punch him our test he’s trying to punch our test insane and then he realizes oh this is this a bunch of fans here let me get out of here before I get jumed let me get up out of here wow and then this fan comes out of nowhere I mean he brought that on himself why are you walking on the court bro that’s crazy [Applause] yeah it could have this this could have been really bad bro if this was downtown Detroit it would been a r it would have been a rrap bro it would have been yeah it would have been you out there beating up on those Auburn hilan yeah yeah was in Detroit it have been a problem for real for real I’m glad it wasn’t bro get mad cuz everybody would not have made it out of there you ain’t running up in the crowd n not at all not at all there’s almost nothing you can do this was a Pier Six brawl wow it’s like every time I watch it I see something different there Chuck person two Pacers in the crowd fighting fan yep insane bro they they lit these fools up bro they lit them up they lit them up oh yeah into that tunnel he got everything they were throwing chairs at Jermaine O’Neal popcorn beer look at this look at this man but Jer O’Neil was silly trying to what are you trying to fight with him for bro that’s a losing battle a lot of hands and feet that that’s what’s going to happen yeah yeah exactly just bro of lot of em yeah I could not I could not believe this was happening bro watching this live I was sitting on the I couldn’t even say nothing I just was sitting on the couch with my mouth open bro like bro and of course it was on ESPN for the whole world to see this see this wasn’t during social media time where you know what I’m saying you got 30 different angles in five minutes as soon as this happens right this was on the news and on every media Outlet you can think of bro imagine if this happen today or so imagine if this happened today man been still theame has there’s Darin [Applause] ham Larry Brown was trying to grab the PA mic to calm down the crowd but they wouldn’t turn it on for him [Applause] wow I don’t think they threw anything at Rick which I was happy to see cuz he didn’t he didn’t have nothing to do with that coach car unbel yeah a lot of people were still heartfelt about him anyway because they didn’t want him to get fired yeah right good point that’s a great Point great point eight years old Craig yeah so I think that’s pretty much it here’s a better replay talk after that here we go he turned around so quick tried to get over there cuz he already knew it was coming Rasheed saved this situation bro he been out of the way Ron arz is the type of dude that that’ll run back up on you he ain’t run back up on B no no no no no no as soon as he foued him he knew he made a mistake cuz he put his head down as soon as he F Ben and Ben turned around he dropped his head he didn’t want them problems bro he one of those problems there’s John Green right there in the blue and so the wrong guy got hit so the wrong guy’s friend tried to help by throwing beer at at test and then jacks came over and hit him and now you see John green and blue hitting our test look at that man great and Mike Brown is grabbing Mike Brown is grabbing him too insane and then he realizes what’s going on and he gets up out of there that’s wild B wild [Music] bro yeah that’s wild look at this jersey [Music] half what are you doing what are you doing why would you walk up on all right look at this fool getting that’s that’s when Jermaine O’Neal came and laid him out and you know what bro he’s lucky he slipped cuz if he don’t slip that dude is out cold y players and the suspensions was correct man they were correct insane bro insane it never ceases to amaze me how often I watch it it never ceases to amaze me what took place okay okay so did you know that um Ben Ben Wallace’s brother was banned from attending games at the palace yeah for beating up or not beating up but he was punching Fred Jones yes in the stands working him out bro I remember yesterday working him out so think about it that was also his brother had passed too you see what I’m saying because Ben’s brother had so that was his brother as well so emotions were flying all out of control bro all out of control it was just a bad a bad timing situation go ahead go ahead on top of that them two big country boys bro like what are y’all doing all of Ben’s Brothers all of’s brothers are like this it ain’t just being all of them yeah like these dudes throw wood and chop wood bro like right bro y’all City Boys man Country Strong Yeah country strong man yeah yeah way so it’s it’s crazy because Ben’s brother was actually banned from attending games at the palace I don’t know if that was upheld once um Tom Gores took over um because you know Bill Davidson was still the owner at that time I don’t know if that still was upheld but I thought that was crazy that he got banned for life from going to at least the palace maybe hope you know I don’t know if he’s at LCA now but so I have a confession to make bro and I have not ever said this publicly before ever I’m GNA say now though as the bra was taking place right as horrifying as that was like knowing it was a national game um and seeing our test when I saw our Tess going to the stands and then I saw our Stephen Jackson going to the fans or to the stands and hit a fan and I saw jerine O’Neal do what he did I was lowkey happy why I was lowkey happy because like I mentioned this was the only team that I thought could and perhaps will beat us in the playoffs so when this happened I knew the patries were cooked yeah they were done Championship hope is gone bye-bye season over no threat to us now like now that I’m now that I’m older my mindset is Chang now I’m like no I want to play them in full strength I don’t want no excuses I want to prove that it wasn’t a fluke last year so back then so back then you was a you had like a LeBron type mentality and now you got a Jordan mental you’re not doing that no I don’t I don’t know what you’re talking about you speaking a different language right now the easy route and then but now you want to earn it when does Brian ever said he wanted the easy route but that’s another story I tell know the story um yeah you had to throw LeBron in there at some point I was waiting on that so anyway getting back to what I was saying before I was rudely interrupted um now now that I’m older I’m like no I want to see both teams are full strength but at the time I knew that the Pacers as long as the Pistons didn’t do nothing crazy right I knew that we were going to be in better shape than they were after the suspicions because we G let’s take a look at the suspensions because you got to remember Adam Silver was not the commissioner this was David Stern who ruled with an iron fist he was known for like don’t for like doing out heavy fines and suspensions anytime there was any violence in the court it didn’t matter he was always if you if you fight you know you’re gonna you know you got something coming serious coming so let’s start with Indiana suspensions right our test was suspended the rest of the season this is November regular season just started so he missed the entire year Jermain O’Neal got 30 games which was later arbitrarily cut down to 15 which I don’t know why and then Sten Jackson had 25 so and then Anthony John Anthony Johnson I think he had five games and Reggie Miller had one for leaving the bench the Pistons on the other hand Ben Wallace had a whopping six games six games Chanty got one um Elden Campbell who my mistake was still on the team I me spoke earlier say he was he was still on the team in five he got one game and Dereck Coman got one game and they all got one game for leaving the bench because you know CH Ain fight nobody not that’s not what he does right um so that crippled Indiana and we got out unscathed like David Stern actually he actually said after those suspensions were handed out he said the line is drawn and my guess is that it won’t happen again at least not any to anybody who wants to be in our league so he was trying to make a point bro like that’s how David Stern moved when it comes to like he just he had no chill he wanted to make an example out of these guys right and that’s that’s what he did so it’s just crazy though because the Pistons got lucky man all the suspensions that were combined for the Pistons only added up to a third of what Jermaine O’Neil’s entire suspension was right so that’s why I was happy right like I knew the season was over and even though O’Neal Jackson and Reggie would come back later in the season our test was gone for the year so like they had a lot of ground to make up as far as getting back into NBA shape um getting re acclimated you know with their teammates all that different stuff you want to like when you go into the playoffs you want to be reinforcing what you already built over the season they couldn’t do that they had to on a fly try to incorporate all these guys and make it work and they just didn’t work for them and so like I said they did win one game against us in the playoffs because we did play them in the playoffs again that season but I think they only won one game maybe they got two but it wasn’t they didn’t have their team um and last thing John Green the crazy thought the part about this whole thing bro is like if he doesn’t do that if he doesn’t if he doesn’t throw the cup and if it doesn’t connect cuz he wasn’t he wasn’t in the front row right he was in the he was a ways back probably 10 rows back so for him to land that what are the odds of that if if he doesn’t like if he doesn’t land that none of this happens like our test doesn’t go into the stands and attack the wrong person uh stepen Jackson doesn’t attack his friend who hit our chest with the beer Jermain O’Neal doesn’t hit the fan on the court because there’s no fan on the court so like had that beard not been thrown you’re probably looking at what a double Tech maybe Ben gets ejected but it don’t matter because the game’s over right it’s just crazy how the Domino effects played out because that one well that one action bro 20 years later is still being talked about yeah crazy listen man I I you know just sitting here watching this as a as an adult now yeah imagine yourself being a fan during that time if you in a fan in the crowd and you see these dudes coming up in the crowd right right bro the fade that they would have caught if I was in crowd exactly like bro this is like to have the audacity to actually do that is just crazy to me man it just never gets oh every time I see that it’s like bro like what are you thinking like anybody could have did anything to you in them STS you know what I’m saying you could have you could have got your career ended in them STS if the right person hold of you exactly so but we we talking about Ryan Artest right this is not a guy that’s a logical thinker especially back then right this dude tried to kill James Harden with a elbow you know what I’m saying so trying to kill Kobe trying to go after Kobe this man changed his name to metal World Peace So this is not a logical human being we talking about but still yeah to have audacity run up in that crowd I mean Ben Wallace is one thing right that’s basketball I mean come on this is the Pistons this like this is what we do you know but yeah you you out of your mind bro like it’s no way I’m running up in the crowd and trying to fight everybody in the crowd because somebody threw a cup like you well you know what that was go ahead go ahead you see people throwing cups you know at all type of events especially say you’re a wrestling wrestling fan you see them drinks in these people’s faces all type of stuff right you gotta be able to withstand that bro you made a dirty play these fans are pissed you lay it on the table right that’s insulting to them they threw a cup at you but running up into the damn crowd it’s like bro that’s next level stupid for me it is but I I I know why he did it he did it because he had that he had his ego was hurt his ego took a shot because he didn’t do anything back to Ben he got pushed and everybody’s trying to protect him which means he can’t protect himself from Ben Wallace yeah and he did and that messed with his ego that’s why he was sitting on the score table trying to taunt Ben he was trying to put that anger somewhere he was trying to retaliate in another way in any way outside of hurting Ben cuz he can’t right he wasn’t going to try to go back at B like you said so who what’s the next best Target see he did he did he was he was on some bully stuff he messes with people who are smaller than him who he thinks can’t hurt him of course you know what I’m saying he ain’t run up on Ben Wallace no yeah n all his working then all his teammates ran up on Ben to keep him away right they know what’s up and see that’s the thing he know like them doing that he knows that they think that that’s needed you know what I’m saying he knows that they’re they’re coming to my defense like that must mean that they don’t think that I am safe from being without them right ego it messed with his ego and that’s that’s why he did what he did yeah from my perspective at least yeah yeah yeah we seen the bad boys do some things like I said Ben Wallace is one thing but running up in the crowd is just overboard you know what I’m saying we we’ve seen some things happen on court we’ve seen also seen Isaiah Thomas get his whole eyes split right we seen that too so I mean as a little dude you’re not gonna keep getting you know beat up by these big dudes you gonna swing on somebody right so it’s always the guy that that does it in retaliation that gets the you know what I’m saying from a New York fan I don’t think New York should be talking either you know what I’m saying y’all was one of them Eastern Conference teams that was doing some stuff too yeah so hey y’all stole a game from us last year man right you know what I’m saying when they ran over s didn’t call it man any that’s another story shout out to BL definitely shout out to him man yeah for sure but yeah he did Isaiah did try to but that’s the thing Isaiah is he attacked somebody who was twice his size yeah you know what I’m saying he didn’t go after you gonna get tired eventually he didn’t go after a little fan somebody who knew he knew wouldn’t be able to protect himself you see what I’m saying it’s it’s different I like I say I never blame the person who reacts right you know I’m saying don’t blame the person that reacts it’s the person you know that that’s starting it you know like I yeah I mean the bad boys a lot of incidents you see them highlights of the bad boys doing this and doing that man y’all don’t know how dirty the damn Celtics was bro man the Celtics was Dirty Man bro Kevin mccale on them boy Kevin mccale was dirty bro he could hoop he could hoop in my opinion he has the best footwork for a big men outside of Kim Lan ever but he was dirty bro that was and that’s who the Pistons learned from the same way the Pistons taught the Knicks same thing passing the torch because who when the Pistons right they were first that’s who the Pistons learned from and then the Pistons taught the Bulls and then they taught like after we lost to the Bulls that first time we were still in the running every year like 91 92 we were still still getting to the conference semis but then that’s when the Knicks started to cut make their rise built off the same template that we had learned from Boston you know what I’m saying so it’s all cyclical it all it all moves in a circle so it didn’t start with us and it didn’t end with us we got two team we just mentioned who came before and after us it’s just how it goes yeah you but yeah yeah but you’re definitely correct you’re definitely correct it definitely um was something that took place with the Pistons they learned it they implemented it it worked the Knicks took it the Bulls took it they learned it they implemented it it worked yeah hel Shuka man yeah he was he was a a great offensive player but he’s the kind of player that he’ll drop 35 and give up 40 because he Ain play a li of Defense that’s why we trade him for Adrien dley he a play a li of Defense but he was a great offensive player greater offensive player yeah yeah for sure man so I that’ll that’ll be etched in ston forever yeah mice at the palace man if if you say to any sports fan just say the word malice they can finish the phrase yep that’s how well known around the world it is if you are born and older than five years old you probably know what this is right it literally was everywhere everywhere and the way that they painted the picture you know just made it even worse because it’s like bro yeah you know Ben Wallace retaliated but it wasn’t our fault that that these dudes ran into the fans and I mean ran into the stands and started fighting people right you know what I’m saying so they tried to put it all on Detroit at that time and that’s why I was so mad with the media our own radio station back then putting it on us that’s why I still don’t have no respect for our radio station today at all that’s a good point the ticket you’re right man I remember all that I remember when they didn’t have no faith in the Pistons beating the Lakers none of that this is all in our city yeah so when everybody be running around celebrating like oh oh four Pistons I remember this that and people ain’t have faith in the Pistons like that no I remember like yesterday you’re right no you’re 100% correct God God Rest his soul but even my pops didn’t you know what I’m saying it was that deep and when they won that’s why the climax of them winning was where it was at man because nobody thought that they would do that you’re right and they still didn’t want to give us our respect even when we like they didn’t want to give us respect as a basketball team first of all because we weren’t good enough and then when we finally won now they don’t want to give us respect as far as our character as a city you know this is what they do with Detroit was the narrative you know what I’m saying like that that was the narrative yeah so I understand like you said get thrown all the time and doesn’t make it right doesn’t make it right but the number one rule for every athlete they you know this you do not go outside of those lines because when you do you’re no longer protected you saw around on test when he realized what he was doing and he saw myriads of fans like close let me get up out of here I don’t care how big I don’t count how many weights you you lift I don’t care how big you I don’t care how strong you are it’s 20,000 people in here bro you trying to get out of here alive or not at that point nobody had any chill you see what I’m saying like you already in the foul Ben Wallace hard you already squaring up with Lindsey Hunter if you Stephen Jackson squiring up with lindsy Hunter and Derrick Coleman you know what I’m saying you already taunting Ben Wallace after you already fed him hard right no bro no what you expect again be fortunate that it was in Auburn Hills just because you you you don’t want the city like that it man yeah it would it would have been a lot more footage it would have been a lot more it have been would been rolling way yeah that team bus would have been in trouble it have been a lot going on it would have been it would have been scary bro it it really would have been scary because you would have had people following like it it it wouldn’t have been a good look bro it it really would not I’m glad I’m actually glad it happened there I’m glad it happened there because everybody is still alive to tell their own version of the story right or wrong and at the end of the day it’s bigger than basketball yeah you know I’m saying it’s about people’s lives and being they actually talked about that Stephen Jackson actually talked about that like we were afraid for he said we were afraid for our lives when they got back on the court it was like it wasn’t the security wasn’t beefed up like it like it really just came down to the fans just having some level of restraint cause at that point if you go if you go into if you come into our territory we gonna go into your territory and there’s way more of us than it is y’all it wouldn’t have been enough security to stop that like when when when when National Championship games won and and the crowds flood the court what if that would have happened who’s getting out of there you see what I’m saying you wouldn’t even be able to find them because there so many people on the court so like you said he he he blinked out he he’s lucky that he’s still here to tell this story that’s all I’m say about that on the flip fight first of all let me just take a seor you know to acknowledge everybody that’s in the comment section we see all of you guys comments I’m definitely reading yeah we appreciate you guys for giving us feedback also Phantom L I definitely will be doing that again that was a blast that’s something that’s something new that’s coming to my channel too so look for that um but on the flip side of that it’s good to see all of these brothers now as friends on podcast you know just remembering as being young and dumb you know I’m saying you know of things them being able to those relationships man and become some of the best friends especially Sten Jackson and rashed man um but that’s that’s what you want to see you know we we look at some of the other relationships that never got fixed you look at Mike and Isaiah never fixed right look how long it took before we seen the sit down between uh Magic Johnson and Isaiah or you know uh Kobe and Shaq and sha right you know what I’m saying so you want to see that you want to see the the Brotherhood the maturity come out of these guys and say hey man we was we was young and dumb during those times yeah you know what I’m saying so that that’s good point yeah that’s because a lot of those guys are friends man yeah like she and and Stephen Jackson they’re friends rip and Stephen Jackson they’re friends that’s why I was so OD in the moment and they talked about that like in the moment they like yeah we friends but we gotta ride for our guys right now you know what I’m saying but once the crowd started getting involved then the Brotherhood aspect came back and they’re like then you saw Pacers play or Pistons players trying to get Pacers players out of the Sands protecting them that firsty was like we it was us against y’all but when the crowd came involved now it’s all of us ver them even though this our home crowd we want to make sure everybody’s safe yeah so to your point like they were scared man like Jer O’Neal Stephen Jackson they were afraid bro and they appreciated Stephen Jackson said he appreciated rashed Wallace coming to his defense right he said that he said I appreciate she coming to my defense because he didn’t have to do that but we was boys that’s what boys do so she had to flip his brain from I’m a Detroit Piston to this is our NBA Brotherhood and I give him I give him credit for that I totally agree biggest jerk I ever seen in my life man the greatest basketball playing jerk I ever seen is Michael Jordan yeah LeBron no jerk but simple yeah LeBron crybaby anyway MJ cab too yeah feminine LeBron listen isaah Thom gets a terrible rap he does man where y’all want to start Isiah where y’all want to start man like he gets man he always get the short end of the stick man like say it’s okay you know the situation where he said that you know if bird was black then he wouldn’t be this player and all of that I get it or whatever some people didn’t like it he was lying though still I mean no lies told I mean but the the when you tell the truth or you know you say certain things like that people just ain’t gonna like it in this world they didn’t like Jesus for telling the truth right so they definitely not gonna like you right that’s what it is yeah you know so yeah it’s just like man you know I mean Isaiah had a lot of things just painted the wrong way about him and what what Jordan did to him bro is just like yeah that’s the utmost disgusting like Talent is Talent bro like whatever you have okay they gave you a couple of hard files they they kept kicking your behind fine but don’t come on bro that’s just yeah and I like everybody else I want to say this too everybody else talks about John Stockton versus aah Thomas right I get it but that shouldn’t even have been the conversation at all get Christian lner out of here bro man we had player I don’t even want to hear because they talking about now kayin Clark K should be the team I understand oh God but here’s the here’s this is the difference even if you want to go that route as far as the business side of it like Stephen they was talking about even if we don’t do that r at least with Caitlyn Clark she is be she is the face of That League I still don’t think she deserves to be there because she hasn’t earned her Stripes but if you’re gonna look at it from the business side of it it at least that’s more understandable because of that Christian ler who was he when you talk Dream Team how many people ever even remember he was on the team how many highlights do you see him you barely even see him in the picture get them both out they don’t talk about him in the scrimmages they don’t talk about him at any point of dream team so why is he even there he he doesn’t bring more appeal he doesn’t do anything for you the fact that John Stockton was walking around with his family and no one knew who he was yeah crazy bro you know what from a marketing standpoint you’re right it is it’s it wasn’t just the height the NBA still like that though it wasn’t like he F in just because of his height they’re still terrible at marketing certain bro they’re still still like that because if it wasn’t for Anthony Edwards people would continue to turn their cheek towards Minnesota bro I agree I mean c been over there for the minute ain’t nobody talking about Minnesota even though cat over there Anthony Edwards changed all of that know I’m saying so the NBA needs to do a better job marketing some of these other cities man especially the Portlands and the Utah and you know these places man because you you’ll miss out yeah yeah you got teams like Okay C now who ain’t getting no shine all these different teams Stockton okay let’s talk about this do you think Stockton is a top five point guard do I think he is yes I think it’s debatable I I’ll say yes because of you know I don’t always look at we look at a lot of the guards and we look at what they can do like this dude is the greatest shoter this dude has this handle this guy is this athletic whatever when you look at how many times those dudes were I mean this was a perennial playoff team you know what I’m saying even though they didn’t get the to the full Cup right these dudes were always in the mix you know what I’m saying and yeah that’s true I mean yeah he did throw the ball to Carl Malone 82000 that’s what I was gonna that’s what I was gonna get to but I get it that’s my thing bro like I understand like first of all shout out to him because he is by far in the way far in the way the league leader in assist and he a under he was a good Defender too he was a good Defender I will give him that and he could shoot pretty pretty well not the greatest shooter but he was he wasn’t Jeff porc but he was he was good he was reliable I just don’t I would have liked to see him in another team in another system with different personnel and just see how he would have played then and see how effective he would have been then not to say that he wouldn’t have been but all we saw was a pick and Ry to death for 15 years yes right I I just don’t know for me like you gotta be versatile I want to see versatility in your game that’s that’s why like Isaiah to me is by far in away one of the best point guards magic one of the best point guard you know what I mean like put the team on back put the team on your back right like the Versa in the versatility like if your guy goes out can you still play with these guys if car alone’s injured can you still play can you still carry your team to the playoffs and do well in the like you know what I’m saying like Isaiah did like magic did when he dropped 40 as a rookie like that’s what I look at are you versatile you know what I’m saying so I don’t know if he is I can’t put him in the top five bro I don’t know yeah I don’t know I’m sitting here thinking of of point guard I just can’t bro I can’t even put him over I can’t put him over pistol I I don’t know if I can either so who you have like like throw some names out there we got magic obviously you got isah you got oh Magic Alli uh Magic is always going to be a top number one fivepoint guard always going to be in the conversation so that’s two I don’t consider I don’t consider Steph Curry I know I know you don’t I know you don’t I’m gonna give it to him because that’s that’s been the position that’s been that’s been the looking at the Personnel on a team that’s been the position that he has played probably more than anybody else on the team right so because of that he’s the closest thing to point guard that they had here here’s my thing Steph is not gonna kill you an entire game dishing the ball he’s not going to lock up the best you know player on the opposite side he’s not GNA do anything else but shoot right that’s why I can only hold him as a top five shooter of all time okay that’s the only reason okay but I’m not mad at that I see what you’re saying because a point guard is what he’s a floor General he controls everything right you know he he he gets guys the ball he gets guys off you know yeah right so yeah I’m not M at that if like yeah so you don’t like I have him in mind yeah because when it came into the league that’s position he played now he it wasn’t traditional point guard because he runs off he plays a lot like rip it’s like rip playing point guard in a sense as far as running off screens you cuse Draymond Green go ahead no don’t finish because I I have to replace him with this guy no go ahead go ahead go ahead so you got so CP so your in your mind CP is better than John STS and I may have to agree with that not on the numbers not based off of the numbers just based off of the itest for me c CP is just man unfortunate situations you know um I just wish I could put him on the team that I want him on you know what I’m saying but like I said it’s just so like say it’s the old way of thinking because if you look at some of the guards that we just seen and we continueing to watching the playoffs yeah that style of play ain’t there Luca the ball you know I’m saying it’s that’s not that play that style is not there it’s not an old a point guard is a point guard right and it’s not just because you’re the first guy coming up the court with the basketball that’s not that’s not what Mak you a point guard you certain things make you a point guard Isaiah is going to go at your best guy with the with the basketball you know what I’m saying magic is going to go at the these these guys can take over games right right John stocking cannot yeah he’s the guy passing the ball to the guy right you know so I can’t put him in the top five I feel it and it’s like I mean I understand what what what you know blence tears is saying but we’re talking about the best point guards so you can’t you can’t say it’s positionist and then stay Steph is your best like if that’s the case we can’t even have a conversation if today’s game is position as basketball we can’t say who’s the best anything we gotta we gotta Define it somehow you know what I mean here’s the here’s the thing now I’m G to go deep into some basketball right let’s do it I was one of the first per people chirping and saying that small ball was a myth yeah where’s small ball right now you know what I’m saying man don’t confuse what you see with one team and what they do and say this is the league now that’s not what it is that style of play still exists today that’s true very well even with wmy handling the ball listen I can go back into those days even back into the 80s and point out some bigs that did control the basketball that time I got you I got you yeah yeah I mean I I’ve watched a lot of basketball yeah bro we junkies man you know so I mean some of the stuff we claim that we see today like it never happened back then it happened back then yeah it definitely happened back then right and that’s not that’s not to say that blence tears or anybody didn’t see that yeah we’re not saying y’all didn’t we’re just talking about what we personally saw you know what I’m saying because that’s that’s something that I saw too you know what I’m saying they’re Masters at marketing Deuce they’re they the Masters at marketing because they’ll have the media and everyone else telling you this this this and this and then the fans they’ll start believing it because that’s what happened with small ball right you know what I’m saying that’s what happened with with golden state now this is how your team has to be and this that no it’s not right whatever works for your team to win is what works for your team whoever wins the championship is who the worst teams in the league are going to try to model themselves after I agree bad teams model themselves after the champion that’s true that is evident that’s true when yeah when you have a good uh uh basketball team and you build it your way like distance in both eras yeah yeah the same exact way right right right yeah yeah Y no that’s that’s that’s facts bro that’s all fact this is interesting too um yes yes he was yes yes he was yes he was and that that that three that shot was ugly but yes it was ugly when you put that that that weird leg thing he would do with his leg when it as ugly as it looks I still expected it to go in every [Laughter] time question for you question for you so okay so we talked about we talked about John Stockton I’m G just throw some names out there and you let me know if you think they’re better than John Stockton Steve Nash yes J kid hell yes okay okay I’m just trying to see your mind is at I’m trying to see your mind is at um um those are the one two I really thought about because I I really don’t think that I personally think Jason kid is better than from the ey test I would I would rather have Jason kid than John Stockton yeah on my basketball team because he’s bigger and defensively I think he’s a little bit better more and he is the ultimate table setter yeah he is the ultimate table setter more I think more than a n more than and maybe he’s more of a table set more than Nash because he wasn’t the shooter that Nash was maybe it’s possible because Nash could shoot that thing too which made the offense better so I give him credit for that but I think as far as just knowing where everybody is supposed to be before they even get there I think Jason kid is his vision man is damn near onm matched I’ve seen Jason kid take over a game I’ve seen Steve Nash take off we talking about somebody did did John stocking win MVPs no H so that’s why you know when I see like these comments I like I say I’ve watched I see I yeah yeah yeah yeah I’ve watch basketball yeah so ain’t no way you know what I’m saying this dude won he’s won MVPs over over Jack still need therapy about it yes he still on the couch talking about it ja you know that it was this little Canadian woman that W running all around the court yeah I remember like yesterday when Shaq was talking about it but like I said we be so quick toet these guys man because yeah I mean you look at a guy like you know like John Stockton like we said if you watched him play you knew what he was doing out there absolutely giv the ball of Malone most of the time yep these guys were doing other things you know they provided you other John Stockton ain’t stopping nobody on nobody’s team nobody I don’t care if you got if it’s a close game and C long fouls out I don’t think the Jazz are gonna win straight up you see what I’m saying I because he can’t take the game over like you said it’s it’s it’s he’s a systemic point guard and there’s nothing wrong with that but when you talking top five you know what I’m saying you got little room for error as far as any weaknesses or anything like that so let’s go through these names because we got some we got some good names in here JoJo white was cold bro I watch if youve ever seen Glory roog watch that movie that’s where I first was introduced to Jojo white um he was cold he was he was nice tiny AR ball he was also okay tiny AR Ball’s better than John tyon I’m sorry he’s better than johnon how Greer I think that’s a tossup I think toss don’t know because I don’t want to disrespect John either I don’t want to be disrespectful to him either because he was he was nice Abdul o was better than stock bro I don’t know I don’t know bro he was more talent look he was more talented for sure no what he was more talented for sure man he was AB you was more talented than John saying he top five I say he was better than Stockton at some point I gotta include the numbers at some point I gotta include the number I don’t think he was overwhelmingly better enough to offset those numbers that John staa had man ra personally that’s just me man with them Denver days he was a problem let me ask you okay what about R Strickland R Strickland was cold was he better than John St I mean better right yeah Talent okay okay I mean Penny hard was better than that’s my favorite player ever him and AI I can go all bro I rather have a healthy and and I I rather have a healthy uh Steve Francis did before I have stock uh I don’t know if I go there cause franchise can’t he can’t orchestrate the offense for me I need him too that’s why he a do none the playoffs to be honest I and I love Steve Francis but I can’t put him over John those D Steve Frances bar all of them dudes bar is different dogs but to me Baron was more of a point guard than Steve Frances was Steve Fran was like a a a scoring guard he was a scoring electric flare Baron Davis was dishing that thing bro he was you know what I’m saying he was doing everything dunking on people crossing people D on Kinko upsetting Dallas D you know what I’m saying monster he got accomplishments you know in the playoffs Steve franchise not so much um oh yeah Tony Parker I’m taking him all day yeah give me Tony give me D Rose give me W Frasier give me Penny if he don’t get hurt easy Kevin Johnson is tough is he better than Kevin John is Kevin Johnson better they played a lot Kevin Johns was a dog KJ was man listen I was about to say uh I put this air dog code in on NBA NBA Jam right now I get KJ and kill you out there probably so yeah I think that’s a watch because they they would go at each other and then from what I saw it was pretty much a standstill between the two they they will both play well against each other so I think that’s a good one Oscar Robertson absolutely no question about it no question about it one more name to this list T white um one more name to this list that those were tra travesties but um there was a kid in Portland his name was Brandon Roy yes absolutely absolutely if he don’t if his legs don’t don’t go shot if he don’t lose his legs nasty man I I I really don’t even have a player account for him like he was just different bro freakishness he it was so to see D I mean uh um I’m sorry good Lord Damen Lillard do the exact same thing he did was just about to say that bro it was like verbatim bro it was like bro cause he did it first right it was the exact same thing and his was bottoms bro stream music way up in the air for like 30 seconds yeah he was incredible bro he was he was a shot maker the way Dame is like he he had all of that shot making yeah same way Dame does he was that guy 100% what you think about uh I know you don’t probably don’t like this dude you say a lot of irrational things but who think about gber arenus better Talent better talented much better Talent way more talented from half court but once again he is a scoring guard scoring guard he’s not gonna set up my offense if if I if I’m playing one game and I’m putting the team together I’m probably taking John ston over him because I know that position is going to be Rand the right way he may not be my star if you’re asking if I could have one like if if I could have one player of that caliber and everybody else is his role players give me Gilbert of course but if I’m looking if if I’m looking to build off of that I don’t need my point guard to be my start here’s on my point guard to set everybody else up you know what I’m saying so we you know we threw a lot of names in front of John Stockton now here’s my thing with John Stockton I would love to see John Stockton on some of the other teams built sa F you SW him for somebody like Magic Johnson put him on the Lakers with that team or if you put John stocking over there um I mean just think of some of the Better Built teams where he’ll be able to Dish the ball around to other guys besid Carl Malone that’s a good point that may Open Stage for him I ain’t gonna knock him too much right right exactly yeah cause the Jazz they like to get out and they were a good defensive team they like to get out and run yeah how you saw how many times Carone going like this as he’s you know what I’m saying like that’s what they like to do so like you said imagine him over there in LA with Kareem and with Byron Scott and James Worthy and all these guys man like set guys up setting them setting setting a table for those guys man that was AC Green all them guys man that would have been a serious problem now let’s climax it and end it with this one all right John Stockton or chy bips give me johy no question without a hesi huh no question yeah no hesi at all no hesi no Euro no nothing give me chy all day um to me Chanty is one of the most steadiest point guards I have ever seen in my life I never worry about him turning the ball over I never worry about him making the wrong play he’s not flashy at all and it doesn’t matter even more yeah and if I’m looking for point guard his build you know what I’m saying his his mental everything you know I’m saying biger point guard can bag you on the box if he needs to you know what I’m saying but time knows how to hit everybody on the court like had rip running like like like f poetry you know what I’m saying it was poetry in motion out there with rip you know and those guys out there knew how to hit everybody in their spots man I love point guards like that I love people who play their position I really do man because if you play it and you play it to the fullest man and another thing with Chanty he was successful with Detroit Denver Denver New York yep the Clipper wherever he like once he figured it out yeah once he got with Larry Brown Yeah his game was transferable anywhere yeah Larry Brown took the selfishness out of him 100% if now Steve if Steve Francis had a Larry Brown now we having a whole you see what I’m saying whole CU C Frances was chy before cha got with Larry Brown y you know what I’m saying but with more athleticism so yeah once chony got with Larry Brown bro everywhere he went after that he just took that same blueprint and did it everywhere else and I don’t know if John ston could have done that that’s that’s that’s that was my point with that that’s a great one to endon though yeah give me chy all day long all day long bro all day long so yeah I see some more names in here T-Mac D Rose yeah is Kareem overrated that’s an inter in question there’s no way that somebody shooting a sky hook and leading the league and scoring for that many years is overrated ask you a question I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer right this is but let me ask you this we talk about with John ston we talk about versatility did Kareem have vers you just mentioned that one shot that he went to did he have versatility he didn’t hook all the time he didn’t hook He he’ll shoot you a 15 he was hooking 75% of the time bro but still he blocked shots too absolutely oh defensively no no question defensively typical big did but he just had an Unstoppable move you’re saying okay gotta just like the rest of the bigs he had gotta something that they didn’t which was an Unstoppable move right you know what I’m saying could not stop it so I mean so he had that plus okay okay yeah plus everything else I mean he did basic Center stuff you know right but that movie couldn’t stop it and he won at every level too yeah you know what I’m saying he won at every level high School College NBA and he’s he’s the only player in history with six MVPs regular season MVPs only guy yep so I don’t think he’s overrated I think sometimes he’s actually underrated because when people talk my Rushmore some people don’t even have him in there got Steph in there and they keep they don’t have him in there they got it’s just like bro what up until last year he was the leading scorer of all time you know what I’m saying so like yeah I think if anything he’s under so here’s where this doesn’t apply for me because I’ve seen where Kareem had the game put on his back plenty of times you know what I’m saying when guys just couldn’t get it going yeah they put the game on Kareem’s back Kareem won a lot of those games just off of what he does agree you know what I’m saying so I mean I get if he was just a guy sitting around on on a superstar studed team and he you know I mean Robert Ory that’s different you know what yeah if you just if he just like a a bus rider you know what I’m saying but playing a little role here and there nah or he got what six Championship seven championships something like that something crazy five seven he’s got seven he got Houston three with the Lakers I think two dispers shees nobody pisses me off more than Robert Ory bro Al Horford because after he hit shot yeah I can’t stand but after he hit them shot shots bro he just act like he just been dogging all game bro you know you know what’s crazy I loved him until 200 freaking five okay I loved him with Houston I led him with LA when they escaped Sacramento I hated him in San Antonio bro that garbage shot that R in mad at that shot I was madash rashed I know but but I was mad that it was him yeah I was mad to L him but yeah yeah yeah yeah I I definitely think um Robert Dy man he he he is a beneficiary of circumstance right he’s he could he can shoot but he’s a beneficiary of circumstance oh yeah for real um one more thing I want to get you shout out to y’all too for y’ comments and um we we appreciate all the love man yeah we appreciate your input too for real y’all keeping this conversation really interesting with us great the biggest wh if who do you think is the biggest what if as far as if they don’t get her I hear this a lot and there’s a few guys that come to mind the same probably few guys you thinking about I got my gu go ahead yeah hit me hit me D Rose yep Grant Hill M Penny Hardway okay I kind of want to say because well I kind of want to say T-Mac I kind of want to say T-Mac M why why kind of because tmac did have he did have his moments and opportunity to play a little bit more than some of them guys but yeah I’m gonna replace tmac I’mma leave him off right now I’m put Brandon Roy Brandon Roy definitely taking League by storm as far as who was about to hit the Pinnacle and then got cut short for short okay okay out of those I want to add one more to the mix um we’ll have a top because I want to know who your who who is the guy for you of everybody who’s the guy of everybody for me he’s up this guy right here is up there yeah ly Bas this guy right here is up there ly Bas was giving Jordan problems in college bro yep he was a bigger he was a bigger version like go back and watch them Gams man oh I was gonna put him on the list Joshua but we talking about guys that was about to hit P Greg golden bro I he would have been nice but we talking about guys that was about to hit that that man yeah likey okay hit me G gr Hill I’m not mad at that this they were giving this man the keys to the league bro yeah they were yep when Jordan retired for the 30th time Grant Hill got you’re right though he was the guy he was he it wasn’t just about Talent he had the the he had the uh the look he he was made for it everything about him fit oh that’s a good one PG PG bro but PG you know what PG came back and still was an MVP level candidate when he went to OKC remember that he was he was like I think he finished like third in MVP voting he wasn’t in the he still wasn’t Indiana you don’t think he was still Indiana PG really that was bro that was I’ll just say this I’ll just cause you’re right I’ll just say this watch him that first year with Russell Westbrook bro CA that I know I I’m with you Indiana because he was giving me he was having me concerned because they was about to beat Miami LeBron he was going Toe to Toe with Bron BR was like yeah high five good shot like you know what I’m saying like but PG at OKC bro that one season when he was top three in MVP voting which he wasn’t with Indiana he was bro he was going nuts pause yeah but that’s a good one PG is is a really good one because you’re right the time he missed in between there is what hurt I think hurt him the most right the time that he that he lost he got back pretty much to that level but what would could he have done at that with that time where he when he got hurt couldn’t he have gotten to the finals that that you know what I’m saying like we don’t know so that’s that’s a really good what if that’s a really really good what if yeah um Bill Walton that’s another good one he doesn’t have those foot injuries man he Bill won the top top big of all time hands down back then man you know like when it comes to injuries injuries took guys out back then yeah this one hurts a little bit even though he wasn’t like a pinnacle player like a top shelf player I watched him in high school man very talented when he had raes you know what I’m saying his injury was just as horrific as pgs if not more I I don’t think we can put this guy on the list man I think it’s just more of him being selfish that he’s a selfish dude bro like I you can’t tell me some of those injuries be holding him out as long as they do this dude is self Greg papovich talked about how selfish this dude is he’s selfish bro okay he just selfish okay it’s hard for me because I it’s it’s hard for me because nobody knows your body but you man you know what I’m saying it’s it’s hard for me to jtap pose and and to be like yeah he he hurt this game but this game he I don’t know man I I feel like maybe that’s the case but I can’t say for sure so I don’t know because what if what if they were pushing him before it was time you yeah you know what I’m saying like so but they going crazy with some of these names bro hold on you diing bro [ __ ] bro he was cold oh yeah he was dog he went at Jordan bro it was you remember that he was not afraid of Michael Jordan bro he was going at Jordan in his face and Jord Jordan was kind of like surprised like who this yeah bro he was nice Petra Vick rest in peace man tragic He Man tragically passed it was it was it a train accident or a car I think it was a train or car accident I can’t remember I watched that documentary too I did too chat let us know um but D he he was he was nice man one at that he was one of the best foreign players ever at that time easy man before Manu before Manu it was like him and arvas those was in Blade those was the guys those was the guys um yeah yeah yeah yeah I like that a rich man Scotty Pippen Scotty was a better Defender I will give him that yeah everything else everything else Grant was better craziest first step I ever seen bro man I never forget watching when he crossed a mess out of scy pipping and Jordan was just like yikes man he dunked on lines of morning bro that too that too so here’s the thing I don’t know I might have to say D Rose that’s your guy because huh that’s so that’s your guy guy I think that might be my guy guy only because we talk about like getting close to that point right like the timing of it too has to play part that’s why for me it’s hard to say Lyn Bas because he never played in the NBA even though in college he was crazy but for me it has to be like you have to be right there and then and for me out of everybody we mentioned he’s the only MVP yeah I ain’t I’m I’m not he’s the youngest ever MVP I’m not gonna argue only reason probably G Hill probably wouldn’t win the MVP because Jordan was still in the league but that was a golden time you’re right D Rose you got to respect that because Brian was in the league when he was doing true true you have Brian Kobe was still there yeah so I’m not gonna argue you know what I’m saying like I’m D serious for the Pistons fans that you know been around for a minute y’all know oh yeah even before he got on his team Derek Rose has always been one of my favorite players of all time all time bro I I’ve never seen nothing in person do some of the stuff that he was doing bro live like that it’s like his body was built differently he was it’s like his body was constructed cuz even even like a Russell Westbrook as athletic as he is we may not have seen a guard that like that just violent with his athleticism but we’ve seen power athletic but we’ve seen but with even Westbrook we’ve seen guys like Steve Francis or Baron Davis who’s built like that yeah similarly Rose was just like he was just hery he was just it’s like he was his body was just constructed differently this dude would literally he will hit you with a stutter step and disappear bro and be gone gone and before you know it he’s jumping over whoever is down there bro like this dude athleticism was stupid man yeah yeah like when they play when this he kind of reminded me of Penny not his game but as far as just taking on and not being afraid of anybody like when D Rose took on LeBron and D way he didn’t beat him but it was a few plays where he took both of them on the fast break and had them both looking silly man the same way Penny had Jordan and Scotti Pippen looking silly man you know what I’m saying like those are probably my biggest two but yeah yeah man like I feel like Penny Hardway bro like you mentioned Grant Hill I felt like at that point it’s a pick them between Penny and Grant it’s a pick them like yeah you know what I’m saying like as far as be that guy different man they was just different yeah Penny was another big you know tall guard that you just man was doing stuff shouldn’t have had business doing you know what I’m saying so yeah and that’s why I was kind of iffy on T-Mac too because T tmac was 69ine Kobe was right he was 68 he was 68 he was 68 you seen this man in person that man is 69ine bro they say 68 I’ve seen him in person bro he’s 69ine I’ve seen him and taan in person bro big dude bro in the same height you’re saying T and okay yes he’s he’s always listened to 68 that’s all I’m saying man that man so if he 69ine maybe he’s 68 with with sax on or something man I’m just saying okay I’ll take your word for it I hear you big dude bro you know what I’m saying then doing the stuff he was doing like say I mean he’s another guy pull that M up damn from half court in your face right go dunk on your biggest guy right boss you up all type of stuff bro yeah yeah he there was a point it was a small period of time where he was better than Kobe oh hell yeah he was better than Kobe I’m just okay yeah like Orland Orlando early Houston early early Houston like that time like like 30 13 points 35 seconds Houston that that version of T-Mac I don’t know anybody else who who could do that I don’t know anybody else who could do that maybe Steph maybe and I I say pull up in your face bro like it was unfair nothing the thing it like I take that back he’s the only player who I think that I’ve seen that could do that CU Not only was he getting his shot off even though he knew everybody was coming he was getting Tim Duncan in the air yes taking a contact still making a three yep like Steph ain’t doing that yep you know what I’m saying he getting knocked down to the floor and shooting and making his free throws but T-Mac man he you’re right he man he’s up there too bro even though he even though he was able to play longer and reached his Apex I think or got close to it yeah he just man if he would have stayed healthy bro I like all these guys would have probably got in the ring at some point if they would have stayed healthy yeah tmac would have got one D Rose definitely would have got one penny would have got one Grant Hill would well hopefully I would like to think Grant Hill would have got one right with us um but at that time I don’t know because we um yeah exactly Maurice 05 that’s that’s the best version of Tracy McGrady I’ve ever seen and there really wasn’t anybody in my mind who was better than him nobody man no not not Tim Duncan not kg nobody that period of time he was the best player in the league piston I was waiting for you bro we was talking about the males of the palace earlier yeah Penny was raw bro like like I said him and Isaiah are my favorite players of all time just the way they played the game bro I just love the way they played the game so just different man it was just different bro Vince Carter was I think I think T-Mac was better than Vince though yeah he was better than I think T he wasn’t more athletic nobody who was right right who was right right you know what’s crazy I saw I saw how how much more athletic Vince was than T-Mac in that allar game because I watch I watched him play together in Toronto you probably watch play together Toronto to yeah and they both was jumping out the gym that D contest I’m like yeah it’s not even close was ridiculous bro and Vince was lacking three inches man he was Kobe he was 66 man no D so yeah I watched right into that one I didn’t even see that man oh man but um yeah man tmac is definitely yeah you can’t really go wrong but if I had to pick one guy just one I’m going D Rose who you going bro damn that’s hard a it is one of my favorite players that you just pick I’m G stick with g h because you already picked okay oh D Rose okay D no no yours was D Rose yeah I man I said g Hill because of where he was at in the league and that the league was literally everybody was giving him the keys right you know to side D Rose was taking him he was taking the keys he didn’t you know what I’m saying so he didn’t care nothing about Brian nobody nobody was scared of nobody bro and like I said that’s an excellent pick excellent pick that’s that’s probably the best one bro like I said the only MVP in the list he probably would have gotten a few more I I shudder to think about what would have happened in that Eastern Conference had he stayed healthy yeah that Miami team not taking nothing you know that’s my goal but real recognize real D Rose there was a point when if Bri is here D Rose is like right here yeah bro because I said at the end of a game man if you anywhere close you in trouble bro because D Rose is giving you everything at that point right right athletically to hit a gamewinner here and there so yeah for sure he he hit one against against the Heat in the playoffs yeah athletically he was every bit Brown was he just wasn’t 68 yeah he was a finisher man yeah I miss those days man I’m just watching him play it was hard for me to watch him play here and just see him as a sell of himself man like it’s it it was still him right he was still effective because he learned how to play differently right still the same moov just a part second right but it’s just like man so yeah that’s that’s that’s a good topic though yeah definitely um want to get your thoughts on that for sure yeah yeah man so that’s all I really wanted to get to tonight man we appreciate y’all comments man anybody else y want to throw us real quick before we get out of here but uh other than that bro I think this was uh this was good man we got a chance to to really get into the the meat potatoes of our conversation though about M the palace it’s crazy it’s been 20 years bro right 20 years man man out of high school fres out of high school bro CU you was 04 right yeah definitely graduated 04 yeah yeah greatest greatest year I ever had right there boy tell your wife that boy tell your wife that graduating high school I’m done with school that’s the Apex bro right right right and the Pistons one what are the odds what are the odds right like yeah that was it felt like a dream and we beat the Lakers again man what it was story book that summer was great it was story book that was when Chappelle was hot all that stuff that was a good that was just a good time bro was that was a good time um but yeah last thing I want to ask you this or hit this here I wonder if Ivy had time with the r in the Pistons how he would have developed over King you know what they have very similar skill sets here’s the thing interesting go ahead here’s the thing with that situation you almost kind of got to feel like you’ll be a lot better because it’s what I’ve been asking for for not only him K too I want that type of guard or veteran here you know what I’m saying that they can actually learn something from like I said that’s why I was talking about that’s why I used to get so mad with Corey Joseph being here is like bro what is he teaching them you know what I’m saying like like what the hell he gonna them nothing right yeah know we need some some guys that’s been at the the Pinnacle man what he’s just gonna tell him about his experience in San Antonio man you know when I was at the end of the bench of San Antonio we w we won a championship like that’s that’s really all it’s gonna be what he saw not what he did like man if you don’t get out my face I I would have cooked you then and now like what get out I’m saying right listen yeah so so they they need that though they need that man yeah bro yeah so probably so debuck he probably would be much further along in his in his growth than sitting on the bench when he not supposed to be having his confidence mess with having him even if that would have happened having a D Rose to pull him to the side and say bro not only not not even a D Rose but at least a decent coach too that’ll help a coach that cared that seemed to care yeah exactly you know I’m saying I I don’t want to say Monte isn’t a decent coach I just feel like Monty is a terrible coach for this team he doesn’t care right now he don’t seem a care right now right you know um you know I I just think that’s what if this was four or five years ago when he was with Phoenix he you know then maybe maybe he would invest more into this team right but now N I just don’t I just don’t see it you’re probably right hopefully this doesn’t affect Ivy long term I don’t think it will because he’s a he’s he’s stubborn he’s like no I’m I’m going to be great I’m going to be man the dude works too hard man and his father is not gonna let him take any days off bro we know that much or his mama Neil for that matter neither one of them yeah so he gonna be just fine gonna be just fine or I be sitting in the corner 100% so yeah man good conversation y’all we gonna We gonna call it tonight we appreciate y’all’s feedback man this was a great conversation y’all y’all y’all know your basketball man I gotta give y’all credit unless y’all was on Google hopefully y’all w’t on Google cheating you know what I’m saying cuz we can’t right now but but yeah this was this was a very uh very good conversation we appreciate y’all showing up and showing out as always you got anything else bro that’s it man we had a good one yeah a good so we will be back what’s tomorrow Wednesday we’ll be back tomorrow for well we’ll be reacting to game three of the NBA Finals go check out game one and game two on our channels if you haven’t already good stuff there but we’ll be back tomorrow or Thursday with that and we’ll go from there any any Pistons news that we hear we if we don’t put it here will be on Twitter or anywhere else so we’ll keep youall in Loop for show whatever we here so with that in mind we are going to call it a night and uh once again thank you y’all for coming through and we will see y’all next time Detroit verse everybody peace peace

2024 Marks 20 Years Since The Infamous Malice At The Palace.
Tonight, King & Deuce Relive The Event, and Give Their Perspective As They Both Watched It For The First Time.

Join Us To Give Your Perspective On It, If You’re Old Enough To Remember It!

See You Tonight At 8pm.