Why Jaylon Tyson was the right choice for the Cavs at No. 20: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Why Jaylon Tyson was the right choice for the Cavs at No. 20: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

what up Cavs Nation I’m your host Ethan Sans and I’m back with another episode of the wine and gold Talk podcast I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter Chris Fedor Chris it’s a late one or as some might say an early one good morning to you sir it is about 2: in the morning when we’re recording this this will air around 5 in the morning somehow but how are you feeling it’s been a long day man oh man all this for the 20th overall pick who is going to struggle to find playing time as a rookie man oh man so yeah that that’s that’s a great place to start because the Cavs had the number 20 overall pick in the NBA draft on Wednesday the second round will begin on Thursday but Jaylen Tyson the only pick that the Cavs have as of right now was selected with the number 20 overall pick and he’s a guy that we talked about before the draft happened and Chris there was a lot of skepticism from fans about his size about why the Cavs went and got him with the 20th overall selection and the one thing I do want to say is um he’s 66 667 he’s a wing which we talked about the Cavs wanting to go get he’s matured he’s three years into his college career now into his NBA career his fresh his rookie year and you understand that he is a guy that could be added to the second unit as soon as he gets to the NBA depending on how he messes with the squad so Chris what is your initial reaction to the selection of Jason of Jaylen Tyson well I asked a scout um in in the days leading up to the draft about Jaylen Tyson and one of the things that I always ask is draw some kind of NBA comparison so that I can get a feel for who this guy is who this guy could eventually be based on his size based on his skill set um based on everything that you have seen from him during his time in college and and based on what you project him to be um and the name that came up was Miami Heat Swingman Caleb Martin he’s not the biggest guy in the world he’s 6’5 but during the the Miami Heat run to the NBA finals he was playing power forward for them in a small ball lineup so I think sometimes size um can be overblown um I think when it comes to Cavs like it becomes a bigger deal because you’re already dealing with some smaller guys at certain positions um but but I never watched Jaylen Tyson play and felt like size or strength or toughness was going to be a hindrance for him at the NBA level um so I think this was a guy that was on the Cavs radar I think this is a guy who um look you and I we went through um our own list of of guys that we thought were a good fit for the Cavs with the 20th pick and we had four matches when we did that right we had four matches yeah we had four matches when we did that um the other one we were debating um but the four matches were Kyle filipowski Johnny Fury Tristan D Silva and Caleb Martin um the the guys that we thought were realistically going to be available to the Cavs that were realistically going to be considered by the Cavs did I say Caleb Martin I think I said Caleb Martin uh Jaylen Tyson as the fourth one and so I always thought that he was somebody that made sense for the Cavs uh they need more Wings they need some lineup versatility they need some um positional versatility they need a guy who can create for himself and create for others and I think the idea of Jaylen Tyson down the road is a big Wing um who can serve as a secondary ball handler and take some of the offensive pressure off of Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell um and I know this is farther down the road but Caris lever’s entering the final year of his contract and there are some um similarities in terms of play style between those two guys so in the short term I don’t really know how much this is going to help the Cavs we’ve talked about um how much limited playing time is available for whoever this pick was going to be at number 20 but I think the idea of him based on his skill set is logical and certainly firstr worthy yeah I think we talked about it before like this guy is someone that we saw in highlights and in film that was able to handle The Rock was able to create his own shot and we talked about it he did everything when he was in California he was their number one guy and we know that the Cavs are looking for other people that are comfortable scoring on their own creating their own shot doing those kinds of things and to get a guy that was considered the number one option that’s a good fit for me because then you get them into Kenny Atkinson’s system who will talk about being uh reportedly agreeing to a fiveyear deal with the Cavs that still is has not been made official by the Cavs as of yet but that is coming soon and um but getting uh Tyson into Kenny ainson system and understanding that that it’s easier to go from a number one guy that was used to carrying the Rock and understanding that he’s someone who models his game as he said and which is ironic that you talk to a scout and said this after Caleb Martin and Josh Hart guys that are not guys that particularly have the ball in their hands all the time guys that are willing to do the dirty dirty work go get 5050 balls and that’s what I like about this guy is he understands that even though he was that dude that guy in California there is a role that he’ll have to fill in to when he gets to the Cavs especially knowing that everybody knows if Donovan Mitchell signs an extension this is Donovan Mitchell’s team um but I think I think the other thing that’s interesting to point out and look the Pack 12 is not the greatest basketball conference in in the world despite the fact that that the late Bill Walton kind of proclaimed it as the Conference of Champions it certainly fell off in recent years um but but he’s he’s a guard he’s a wing however you want to classify him he was seventh in the conference in rebounding so you know he was able to hold his own he was able to play bigger than than what he’s listed as he was able to guard multiple positions um he played the one two and three at various points when he was at Cal so I I just don’t think the size thing is is that much of of a problem for the Cavs because I just think sometimes there are certain guys that that played bigger um and and find a way to be effective um in different Realms and for him to be able to rebound the ball the way that he did um with the size that he has I think speaks to a lot of um I think it speaks to a lot of different things but but I think it also shows obviously the NBA is not the Pack 12 but but it shows that that he can handle toughness he can handle physicality he can get his nose in there and get the 5050 balls and battle bigger stronger guys for rebounds and stuff like that so yeah I just to touch on that because you did briefly Chris um his numbers are phenomenal and that that’s something that we understand and we knew going in but um in his Junior season at Cal he averaged 19.6 points per game 6.8 rebounds 3.5 assists and 1.2 steals he was the first team all packed 12 with California like and over his final two seasons where he played in all 6 62 games he shot 47.4% from the field and 38.1% from Beyond The Arc and we know that he’s working to improve prove his outside shot which is something that he needs to do on a consistent basis but 38.1% ain’t nothing to sneeze at if you’re playing in all the games and you are also being tasked with getting to the rim being physical and doing everything on both ends of the floor and it’s something that I think is definitely something to look at but the other thing as I was mentioning uh Kenny ainson um Tyson was playing under Mark Madson in California mark madson’s guy who was a assistant coach and a Player Development coach with the Los Angeles Lakers he was also the head coach of their the lakers’ D-League team and just understanding that you have a coach that has been to that level he also played in the NBA and you understand that he has a different knowhow a different understanding of what it takes to be uh able to change your game from the college stage to the NBA stage and having those uh kind of conversations is something that’s going to help him going forward and also Atkinson is a kind of similar-minded Coach to Mark Matson if you if you were to ask me because they both were Player Development guys from the beginning they both got respect from different coaches around the NBA around the league that know ball know the game and know what it takes to help these players develop so Jaylen Tyson getting plugged into Kenny ainson system after working with Mark Madson I think is probably one of the better situations that could have happened for him and also for the Caps I also think it helps him that um the Cs don’t need him immediately he didn’t enter a situation where they’re going to ask too much of him too soon they can develop him properly they can let him play through his mistakes they can let him learn um some things off to the side before getting meaningful reps and meaningful playing time um they can find a way to continue to work on his shot uh continue to get him more comfortable playing off the ball that’s going to be an adjustment for him because he’s used to having the ball in his hands um he’s used to running the show as general manager Mike gansy said tonight um in his post-draft press conference Tyson had the ball 95% of the time while he was at Cal so he’s going to have to learn how to fit a role he’s going to have to learn how to be a lower volume lower usage type player um he’s going to have to learn how to blend into the fabric of an offense and those things take time it’s going to take an adjustment so he’s able to go through those kinds of things and look if the Cavs need him in a pinch if you know he he makes it hard for Kenny Atkinson to keep him off the floor um if he battles in training camp and he earns more of an opportunity then so be it that’s the way that it goes but but he didn’t enter a team that is looking for him to contribute immediately and play Big minutes as a rookie um and and have a big role within the fabric of the team um also defensively is going to be a big swing thing for him if he can hold up on defense then you’re talking about somebody who is a solid rotational wing for a playoff contending team and that’s really really good to get at number 20 but again it’s going to be up to him to become a better Defender it’s going to be up to him to understand defensive schemes and put more effort at that end of the floor and stuff like that but if he does do that and if he can hold his own on defense which he did not do when he was at Cal um then you’re talking about somebody who is probably a hit with the 20th pick because I don’t have a lot of questions Ethan about his offense his ability to be a level score his ability to be a playmaker a secondary playmaker his ability to finish around the rim get into the paint create for himself create for others um it’s it’s more about the defense and can he adapt to not being on the ball consistently yeah and I think you mentioned it with Mike ganzy talking about defense and how he’ll have to improve that but we also understand that him being around potentially Evan Bo and Jared Allen that’s going to help erase some of the issues immediately but also there’s a culture of defense that sure could possibly shift more towards offense this next season but this team has been known for defense for the last five years and just being around guys that have that mental mindset uh to begin with could shift and help him understand the importance of that side of the ball one and two I mean I don’t want to get into compar too much today Chris because it’s really early we have to get to see him at first but I mean watching his highlights at cow on the ball and watching him in pick and rolls I can only imagine him doing pick and rolls and being as fluid as he was with guys at the Collegiate level setting screens for him and then switching those guys in with Jared Allen who we’ve talked about as one being one of the best uh screeners in the game and I just think that as a another option as a ball hter like you have mentioned allowing Donovan Mitchell to be off the ball and create and we’ve talked about Donovan Mitchell uh benefiting from having a table setter and potentially having him in that kind of role I just think it is a good situation and I agree with you I I’m a fan of this pick and we’ve talked about it before the draft happened that this was an ideal fit for this team but and you know here’s the other thing too he said um it’s easier for me to accept this this kind of um draft pick and it’s easier for me um to to be on board with it and and think that it’s a good pick because of what was available at the time that they were selecting you know I’m told that they had been eyeing Tristan D Silva from colado and jacobe Walter from Baylor as the draft continued to unfold right those guys were still on the board as we got to the 15th pick and it got closer to the Cavs pick but those two guys went 18 and 19 in the two picks right in front of the Cavs so I think if either one of those guys would have been on the board at 20 it probably would have been um more of a debate on do we take D Silva do we take Walter do we take Tyson um Tyson was a guy that was on the Cavs radar for a long long time they brought him in for a workout he impressed them in his workout despite being less than 100% because he was dealing with a back injury that he suffered um in a previous workout with another team um but he was willing to come in he was willing to compete um and and he impressed the Cavs with his ability to rebound his ability to pass his ability to shoot his ability um to just stand out in that kind of environment so that on top of what they already saw on film while he was at Cal all the stuff that they heard from Mark Madson and some of the other people that had been following Jaylen Tyson throughout you know his three-year college career some of the things that they saw in person when they went to go Scout him things that they saw on film uh the data analysis that they did like all of that stuff is is part of the pre-draft process and all of that stuff matters to some degree but the fact that he did come in they did get to meet with him they get did get to talk to him they did get to learn uh what kind of person he was and how he would fit from a personality standpoint and his work ethic and his competitiveness and all those different things um he was somebody that they liked and and he was somebody um that was on their list of prospects that they were looking at for the 20th pick always just like Tristan the Silva Just Like jacobe Walter just like Johnny Fury just like Kyle filipowski so it’s like there isn’t that glaring one I liked Johnny Fury and I think he would have been a good pick for for the Cavs at 20 that would have been more of an upside swing um but I would have liked that pick by the Cavs and and I wrote about Johnny Fury and I gave my reasons behind that um but beyond him and Beyond Kyle filipowski like there just isn’t that glaring Prospect um that was drafted between 21 and 30 that you sit there and you say oh man the Cavs should have gotten that guy or oh man I can’t believe they passed on EX player to take Jaylen Tyson you know what I mean are you really lamenting the fact that the Cavs didn’t draft Ryan Dunn who can’t shoot a lick at this point are you really lamenting the fact that the Cavs passed up on kaon George who’s been described to me as Kyle Anderson with a jumper like you know what I mean so it I think it’s just easier to accept this pick um one because it’s logical two because it’s a good fit and three because the players on the board um that they did not take in order to take Jaylen Tyson there isn’t that one that that really stands out to you that you consider a big whiff at least I don’t yeah I’m in the same I’m in the same boat as you I don’t think there was a guy that was like standing out that could have been picked that didn’t get picked that people are like oh well we should have done that but sure there should probably be Cav fans if we look through the X and Twitter verse that they’re yelling at us already but Chris I mean we’re we’re talking about a guy that we talked about already earlier and we said if he was a little bit taller yeah there would be no conversation and it’s not like he’s 63 4 the guy is 6667 like and he can get up and down the floor and all of those good things but we talked to uh Cav’s general manager Mike gansy and he did say and this was expected that the Cavs are going to be aggressive and try and get a second round pick tomorrow and with those guys that you mentioned Johnny Fury Kyle Philip palski still being on the board who knows how long they’ll be on there and potentially the Cavs could be very aggressive and try and get some a pick that would allow them to go and get one of those guys still off the board so what do you think about the option for the Cavs to be aggressive in day two and I mean we’ve talked about it a little bit but what are your thoughts on the whole situation yeah I mean I reported earlier this morning Ethan that that the Cavs had been making calls to every single team that had a second round pick just to gauge um the level of availability of that pick and to gauge what the cost would be to acquire that pick um and do the Cavs have the kind of assets um and and is is the cost of that something that they would be willing to meet um those are very separate questions of course there’s a level of want when it comes to the Cavs getting a second round pick because they don’t have one and because they are still got guys on the board here in the second round that they do like they could get Johnny Fury in the second round he’s still available Kyle filipowski still available both those guys you would think are going to go early in the second round but they worked out cam Christie from Minnesota he was in that same workout with Jaylen Tyson I’m told um Tyler Smith from the g-league ignite he was also in that same workout with Jaylen Tyson I’m told um Jaylen Wells from Washington State that’s a guy that came in and had a really really good workout for the Cavs as well uh pel Larsson is somebody who worked out for the Cavs he’s still on the board they like him a lot he’s very Max struy so he would fit pretty well um especially in the kind of system that Kenny Atkinson wants to run with you know Pace space three-point shooting uh movement off the ball uh creativity diversity dhos stuff like that um so there are players that would appeal to the Cavs it’s just do they like them enough to give up what they would have to give up in order to move into the second round because if you remember you know this is a team that has used a lot of their draft Capital into the future um on various moves their second round pick this year is going to Indiana as a result of the Caris LeVert trade a couple of years ago um but there are other second round picks that they don’t have into the future there are first round picks that they don’t have into the future because they all belong to the Utah Jazz um so they have to be pretty careful about uh when is the right time that they’re going to use some of those assets and is tomorrow a second round pick the right time to do that um one of the things that does help them in their quest to try and get into the second round is that there are multiple teams that have multiple picks in the second round and there are only so many rookies that you can have on your roster right there only so many spaces that a team has on their roster um Portland’s got multiple picks Indiana’s got three picks in the second round they have room for three rookies three second round rookies hard to believe so I think the opportunity is going to be there for the Cavs to get into the second round I think there are going to be picks that are going to be traded in the second round or bought by a team or two teams in the second round or three teams or however many teams want to buy a pick into the second round that’s certainly a possibility um but it’s going to be about the cost for a team that you know doesn’t have as many assets as maybe they would like um moving into the future so Chris I want to get into a little bit about what GM Mike gansy talked about and obviously he was not allowed to go in depth about Kenny ainson because that has not been made official but we should be hearing about that shortly that was alluded to today but about this pick for what stood out to me about what Mike gansy said the most the biggest thing was that Jaylen Tyson was willing to work out through an injury he was willing to put his body on the line he was willing and able to still be productive in a workout against what he classified as one of their better workout classes or groups um and I think I don’t think anybody is trying to throw shade or some people might be but it’s come off that way a couple times now from different people in this organization or people that have are no longer in this organization about what happened last year uh in the playoffs when it came to different players not being able to participate uh throughout the remaining remainder of the playoffs I think Jaylen Tyson one was a good fit but also him showing his endurance showing his intensity showing those 5050 ball different things because we heard uh Mike gansy talk about the rebounding the speed the effort those kinds of things that helped him especially when it came to a team like the Caps what stood out to you about what Mike gansy talked about for uh jayen Tyson and just overall as well well I think the other layer to this Ethan is that the Cavs had a hard time getting some of the prospects in for a workout that they wanted to bring in number one they’re drafting 20th it’s not a lottery Pick and number two it’s a team coming off an Eastern Conference semifinals appearance and I think a lot of agents are fully aware of what Cleveland’s depth chart is looking like right now and what it’s probably going to look like and it’s all about opportunity for a lot of these prospects they want to go to a place where they can flourish they want to go to a place where they can play and and these agents want them to go to a place that’s going to give them the best opportunity to grow and oftentimes that comes on the court meaningful minutes with playing time um so it’s not surprising to me that that some of these guys that the Cavs wanted to bring in for for a workout because they were on their radar at 20 said no because of your depth chart no because it’s a waste of our time no because we’re going to go higher um but I do get the sense that that bothered the Cavs you know they wanted Kyle filipowski to come in and work out he didn’t he’s still on the board here in the second round um they wanted Tristan D Silva to come in and work out he wasn’t willing to um it was just hard for them to to get the caliber of Prospect in for a workout and and I think without saying that that’s that’s part of the way that I took it when he was talking about um Jaylen Tyson it was a guy who was willing to come in and it was a guy who was willing to fight through an injury and be less than 100% and maybe put himself into a situation where he wouldn’t look as good um on the floor but he just like didn’t care about all that other stuff that that some of these prospects and some of these prospects agents do care about right he just said I’m going to compete if I’m less than 100% I’m less than 100% I’m just going to go out here stay true to my commitment and and show this organization why they should take me with the 20th overall pick um so that’s part of the way that that I read that situation I think it’s interesting that you mentioned uh just wanting to get playing time by the agents and by these players and wanting to be able to have a flourishing uh NBA career I mean that’s everybody right that nobody wants to come in and say I made the NBA okay no I’m not here anymore no that’s not the idea and Jaylen Tyson is the same exact way there was a video that got posted on Instagram with him at his uh party that was not at the NBA draft because he did not attend uh in Brooklyn and he said that he wasn’t there to be he wasn’t there in the NBA to be there just for four years he wants to play 15 years plus and that could be with the Cavs that could be with whoever but his goal is to be able to play and have a longlasting career and I think that’s what a lot of different players are having that mindset but they understand that different situations will allow that to be the reality in different ways and for Jaylen Tyson I think showing that the Cavs showing the Cavs that he was willing to play injured play without being at 100% like you said and still be able to be productive is definitely something that caught their eye and also made him realize that hey I can do this even if I’m not at my best I mean some of these agents just control the process so much and they just want want their client to look good in a workout to stand out in a workout um to look good in a specific kind of environment so they set up drills a certain kind of way so they make certain kinds of requests for what kind of workout it’s going to be so that you know the skills that are showcased and the traits that are showcased are the ones that are already strengths of the player that that is going to allow that player to look better and it’s going to play into their hands you know what I’m saying and for Jaylen Tyson to be part of a multiplayer workout where um he was surrounded by other guys who were borderline first round guys early second round guys and for him to be willing to to participate in that at less than 100% um in a situation where he could have made himself look worse he could have cost himself an opportunity to be drafted in in the 20s um with a bad showing like I think that speaks to his competitiveness I think that speaks to his um toughness I think it speaks to all those things that that Mike ganzy was talking about and um look I think I think the Cavs understand Ethan if if you think about a lot of their moves since that flame out against the New York Knicks a lot of them pointed to we gotta get tougher we gotta get tougher physically we gotta get tougher mentally George Nang Tristan Thompson Max stru Marcus moris senior Midway through the season um all of those guys have a specific SK skill set that the Cavs were attracted to and they made sense from a basketball standpoint but they’re also physically tough mentally tough and it’s clear that the Cavs are are trying to bring those types of players into this organization because that’s the thing when you sign a player in free agency when you you trade for a player when when you draft a player you’re not drafting a skill set you’re not drafting a name on a piece of paper you’re you’re drafting a person and everything that goes into that and you have to have the right people in your organization that that fit what you want this organization to be and it does feel like Jaylen Tyson is a Cavs type player and it feels like the amount of effort that was put into not only figuring out the type of guy that Jaylen Tyson was but also how many Cavs uh Personnel um Mike gy said reached out to get in touch with Jaylen Tyson afterwards like that was a good sign to me as well and I think just the way that Mike ganay put it made it seem like we already knew they were going to take the best available player that’s what he said they did that was the best available guy on the board for them and was the best fit for the team and I think that holds true to what we had thought was going to happen but also just the way that the draft panned out I also think though I don’t want to say they gave bonus points to a specific position but I think the reality in the NBA Ethan is that there is more value attached to certain positions I think there’s more value attached to certain certain archetypes so if if you have prospects that are pretty close together that are on the same tier the Cavs were probably always going to lean Wing over point guard over big man right just because the value of of that position and because I think if you have a guy that can play multiple spots that is obviously going to help you when it comes to lineup construction it’s going to help you with other moves that you can make it’s going to help with um the the kinds of styles that you can play so obviously the Cavs need a third big and there was a chance that they were going to get a third big um in this year’s draft and they had an opportunity to um filipowski was there Mei was there from Baylor Mei went one pick behind them to New Orleans at 21 um but but I think the Cavs were always most likely to lean wing with this particular pick um if there was a wing that they felt was worth the 20th overall pick and there clearly was um so I do think they attach more value um to to the position that that Jaylen Tyson plays and and I do think that helped him become this pick at number 20 yeah and I mean we we mentioned Wing was the archetype that they were looking for but obviously it was beneficial that he played guard for a majority of his his career in college so now you kind of get the best of both worlds someone with the size to play small forward but the skill set to be able to play the one two or three and that’s what Mike gany said he said mostly the two or the three but in a pinch he could run the one as well so I mean he also said in a pinch he thinks he could play the four which was crazy to me but Caleb Martin dude Caleb Martin started games at power forward for the Miami Heat for the the NBA Finals appearance Miami Heat think about that I I say I say give him a year before you throw him against fours in the NBA or so but I I definitely think I could see it because we we saw his strength on film you saw his strength uh just jump off the page because he wasn’t afraid to go at whoever was in front of him and I think that shows that even on but that’s on the offensive end and like we said the defensive end is where he needs to grow so me seeing him go up against uh true fours in the NBA and his rookie season that might frighten me just a little bit but He’s listed as bigger than Josh Hart do you realize that yeah I do which is crazy to think that Josh Hart plays meaningful minutes at the four at times for the New York Nicks so and battles power forwards for rebounds and switches on to those guys and stuff like that but like I said some people are capable of playing bigger than what they’re listed and it feels like Jaylen Tyson is one of those guys who can play bigger than what he’s listed it seems like the Cavs got the right guy it seems like the Cavs are happy with their pick and they could potentially go get some other guys that are still on the board that they were looking at tomorrow so CH wasn’t going to say well this pick sucks damn I really wish we could have gotten jacobe wal jeez the Orlando Magic took our guy at number 18 in Tristan D Silva so yes he was always going to speak very very positively about this particular pick but I think in this case you know there there is Merit to that because as as as gansy said and I think he’s right th this particular pick and and this guy with this particular skill set it checks a lot of the boxes maybe not every box that the Cavs would want checked but when you’re pick and 20 overall you know you’re not going to find somebody who checks all of the boxes not in this year’s draft all right Chris it’s late I think that’s a good spot to end today’s podcast and with that being said that to wrap up today’s episode of the wine and gold Talk podcast but remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris and Me by subscribing 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In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, the hosts discuss the Cavs’ No. 20 overall selection in the 2024 NBA Draft and why they believe Jaylon Tyson was the right choice.