Miami Heat Can Forget About Donovan Mitchell | Spida Extends With Cleveland | The Five Guys

Miami Heat Can Forget About Donovan Mitchell | Spida Extends With Cleveland | The Five Guys

[Music] all right welcome into the Five Guys on the Five Reasons YouTube channel I’m Ethan skull you follow me at Ethan J skullnick and at five reason Sports we got our guy Alex Dono you can follow him at Alex Dono very convenient check out the latest episode of five on the floor that I did with Shawn Rochester about a similar topic that we’re going to do here but uh we’re going to take a little bit of a different perspective on it thanks again to our sponsors as always Michael Robert and his team in Boker rone water cleanup of Florida you can find him at wcu.com that’s wcu.com water cleanup of Florida if you’ve got a leak in your home in your business they can take care of it right away take care of it before it gets worse now of course if it does get worse they can do the damage assessment they can do the mold remediation they can do the water mitigation they can do the dry out they can do all of that stuff but reach out to water cleanup of Florida more than 70 fstar reviews on Google 56148 7835 that’s 56148 7835 water cleanup of Florida if you got the Schmutz they got the guts speaking of guts I don’t have any guts right now Ethan uh short on guts um somewhat upset guts right now Heat fans are not happy uh we’re going to try to put this into some kind of context and I tried to do this with Sean and again this is going to get a lot of eye rolls from people so I understand that but I think again nuances required and then we get to what the real issues are Donovan Mitchell is rigning or extending with the Cleveland Cavaliers this is not a huge surprise actually uh three years 150 uh plus million dollars all signs have been pointing this way for a while it seemed a matter of time the Cavaliers were fairly confident uh in what uh the situation was going to play out with Donovan I know that Heat fans had some hope because of the relationship with bam the flirting that has taken place in the past but honestly and I’ll just say this the very beginning I I don’t think that the chances of this were ever as good as the chances were of Dame Lillard coming to Miami and unfortunately as we pivot back a year that was you know that was killed by another GM’s unwillingness to work with the Heat this was killed by the player making a decision and I you know th those are two things that’s a large degree are out of the Heat’s hands and I know nobody wants to hear that but we can have a discussion about how the heat got in this place and how they get out of it that is a reasonable conversation the frustration from fans is understood but when I’m literally going on every heat Instagram post and it’s not the best time to post about a two-way contract for Drew Smith I can tell you that uh but yet the heat did that when I’m looking at those Instagram posts this this fan base is furious at least the DI hards and I say the DI hards I mean the social media types the 10% you know then there’s sort of the the fans who follow team pretty regularly Alex um who maybe have season tickets or something like that I I don’t know where those fans are right now I don’t know how they’re going to feel about a run it back situation I mean we interact again with the most passionate the most rabid and in some ways in some cases the most irrational and so again I understand the frustrations but you can’t get a player who isn’t available I I just going to say that at the start if he decided to sign the extension he decided to sign the extension to this point I don’t have really any information that this was because the heat were not offering anything now I’ll get the postmortem on this but again it wasn’t as simple as going and signing Donovan as a free agent or even you know saying here we’re going to give up these players he’s GNA come he ultimately made the decision he made the decision to stay and now Alex I think we need to talk about okay what direction to they go because I’m starting to feel a little bit differently now about sort of where the franchise is because I don’t see another player out there that can really change their fortunes for next season yeah you know I got a couple thoughts on on this Donovan Mitchell thing happening today first of all I guess I can thank you for softening the blow for me a little bit because I I can recall um a quick conversation that we had on on this channel going back a few weeks where you had said hey you know it’s not really trending in the direction where you know you thought at that point he’d probably end up resigning or signing the extension with Cleveland which he ultimately did so you soften the blow for me on that it’s still it doesn’t make seeing that headline doesn’t make it hurt a whole lot less Ethan when you know whatever it was about three hours ago today when we saw you know it’s being reported it’s official whatever it is despite is staying in Cleveland uh it was still it was still a blow to my guts right it was still a gut check for me as a Miami Heat fan I guess I’m thankful even though this situation resolved in a negative way from a heat perspective I’m glad that it was resolved relatively quickly that it happened on July 2nd and it didn’t you know drag on for however long the Dame Lillard Saga drug on for at least we can mentally move on this one quickly although I would have taken the download from the 58 podcast I was going to do I will say that it ended a little for me for that yeah know so so so that that that’s on the other hand and then um I also think that what happened last summer with Dame which you know probably wasn’t the Heat’s fault given those circumstances last year this one doesn’t really seem like it’s the heat fault the Heat’s fault that Mitchell decided he wants to stay in Cleveland but I I think that what happened last year with Dame what’s happening now with Mitchell that that that makes it even harder for Heat fans because now multiple summers in a row you just start to get this feeling that the heat franchise whether it’s a fair or unfair perception people start to get this feeling that this franchise has become too complacent too reliant on Jimmy too reliant on Tyler herro who I’m sure we’re GNA talk about on this episode because he seems to be maybe lashing out on social media a little bit I mean I get I wasn’t even sure if you could still see likes to what I thought they got rid of that but apparently you can still see what people like on X or Twitter or whatever we’re calling it now so yeah you seem so the the heat perception is so reliant on running it back and depending on the same players who haven’t gotten us over the hump the last couple of years when the fan base just wants Riley and Company to do something do something big and that big move isn’t happening well you use the word something and and I think again that’s the word that we need to talk about because it does feel like Heat fans just want something yeah and I I I get that but it can’t be the wrong something and that’s kind of where I’m at and that’s why I’m thinking a little bit about their build um and and where this goes and really what stage of a build we in and maybe this is actually the second part this is the start of a different build um you know something you know would have been say trading for Bradley Beal last year and taking on $57 million without the ability to trade him would that have been a smart something no did Heat fans for the majority of them want it because they were frustrated about the Dame situation yes and so that’s why again I say let’s take a step back and look at how they got here and where they are the landscape of the NBA has changed Pat acknowledged that he’s aware of it he acknowledged it two or three years ago you don’t wait for free agency anymore uh cap space is meaningless and then the second apron situation came in and they don’t want to be above the second apron and I say will say this over and over and over they are right about that uh that’s not a question of spending money it’s a question of not having any flexibility going forward now do I blame them some for some things yes why are they in this situation where they never seem to have enough assets ex exact that that’s what I want to know I because the last couple years it never seems like they have enough assets to make the deals we want them to make right and then you know the Knicks have uh 3 million first round picks uh basically to trade for a third three and D Wing right like you already got Josh Hart and you’ve got an anobi and you’re going to pay them and now okay now we’re going to pay another guy from Villanova in bridges and I don’t know how it’s going to work out for the Knicks but I do know that the the single most important commodity in the modern NBA is the three and D player at a high level and they have three of them and the Heat’s best player is a three and D player not a three and D player but I’m sorry he’s a wing uh that the 3 and D players are going to guard and so that’s not ideal I the the the discussion that needs to be had is again how they got here okay and how they don’t end up here again they have had to in the past and we’re going to do this on Five on the floor but I’m going to credit Miami Heat be because they already did it and and I think they did a good job of it Brian Gos in particular that they they have had to attach picks to get off of mistakes um and and that is problematic okay and you you know you’re going to pay for that at some point and they’ve even had to attach picks just to get deals done I I’ll I’ll go back to this one the Jimmy Butler deal 2019 right absolutely the right deal to make okay yeah they had they had tried to get him from Minnesota the previous year it fell apart mostly because the Wolves wanted bam tibs at the time uh the heat weren’t going to do that P Pat hung up okay next year they pivot they get him from Philadelphia they think they have him in a multi-team deal where Dallas is involved there’s some kind of weird mixup with Dallas about whether it was drage you would have been trading drage by the way uh drit or o linck or what it was and to save that deal they had to give up a first round pick I believe to the Clippers I can’t remember exactly it’s been a while now maybe it’s Portland instead of taking harkless at that time they ended up having to give up a first round pick okay now again these things accumulate second round picks first round picks when you’re having to trade players to get off of bad money then there you get into the contracts Okay Tyler Johnson’s a good example they decided to match that that was was actually the Arison who decided to match that that wasn’t really Pat’s idea and people are talking about Mickey being cheap in that case they made a mistake uh re re matching the deal with Tyler Johnson they made a mistake in 17 giving those contracts to James Johnson and to Deon waiters right and then they had to get off of those deals they did by packaging Justice Winslow they ended up getting Iguodala uh Solomon Hill and and Crowder two of those players were instrumental in them getting to the finals what I’m saying is that they’ve had to make these moves to get off of mistakes and then we can say okay was the Duncan Robinson contract a mistake I don’t think it is now it didn’t look like it last season but again they made a decision you know I think Don if Duncan’s healthy he’s worth $18 million but okay it didn’t work out for about a year and a half they did not make the mistake with stru which would have been an overpay all right with Gabe they offered him something but not that much we saw the year that Gabe had they’re gonna let Caleb go so it seems like at least they’ve they’ve made the decision and we’ll see what happens with heith but they’ve made the decision okay once we develop these guys we’re not going to overpay them we can go find others I think that’s the right decision but they weren’t making that decision for a little while and that that depleted some of their assets okay and additionally now they’ve given a lot of money to Tyler hero all right which was market value at the time all right when you look at what other guys RJ Barrett others in his class were getting Alex it was market value at the time but it hasn’t worked out not because Tyler’s a bad player not because Tyler hasn’t improved he has improved okay but he hasn’t been available enough and it’s a bad fit okay and so now it’s like and then the Rosier trade which again I can’t criticize them for that because I called for it okay I like the trade so far it hasn’t worked out because the guy wasn’t available at the end of the season and additionally he and hero are not going to be a good fit I just I’m I’m standing on that so I so what I’m saying is okay that they they have put themselves somewhat in this position they have paid Jimmy significant amount of money they have paid bam extended him twice now right they’re now standing on business when it comes to Jimmy they decided they weren’t going to give him the extension right now we’re not going to pay that kind of money going for we’re not going to hamstring ourselves and so Jimmy has kind of done the well and I said this would happen I was saying this consistently after Riley’s press conference that Jimmy was then going to take the I’m breaking up with you not breaking up with me position and so now you’ve got this question with Jimmy but if you’re going to transition to not making mistakes with money with with flexibility with all that there’s GNA be some pain in that and I think we’re in the Pain part and and I’ll go to this with you Alex and then we’ll go to the break I I mean do you now make a move for a very expensive player who doesn’t necessarily put you in the top three or four of the East because that’s the conversation now that Heat fans are having because they just want somebody and to me it feels like the Bradley Beal thing all over again Zack LaVine even Trey young like is that something that you would do oh I mean it’s it would be at this point people people want to try something different and you know Trey young is obviously a guy that we’ve watched for many years scoring a lot grabbing a lot of headlines getting on a lot of highlight reels but H like how much better would somebody like that make your team depending on what you have to give up to get him I mean I it seems like his Market Is Not Great you know they traded dejonte Murray first because they could get more and de they didn’t even get that much for dejonte I mean if you compare I mean deante when he’s at a high level is every bit as good as Mel Bridges they they didn’t get uh you know Mel Bridges value for deant I mean Dante to me is you know he’s below Allstar but he’s not that far below and Mel is kind of a borderline All-Star um so and as as far as Trey goes you know again would he make you better offensively no question okay I mean you’re talking about range out to 30 feet he’s a very underrated passer he’s a disaster on defense and he’s tiny so you’re talking about yes this is what you’re paying bam for I mean ril the great comes in he can’t defend he’s basically Mini Hero I I mean look he’s better than Tyler but I I again how much better does he make you yes he would get bam the ball more often okay bam would get some more dunks I don’t know then you’re pivoting with bam After Jimmy leaves if that’s the case and the other one LaVine badne okay he came in the league as an athlete he became more of a three-point shooter badne doesn’t seem to be about winning um has never been the defender that his athleticism should suggest and the Bulls can’t get anything for him now I’ll throw this at you and then we will break if the Bulls somehow came to you and said here’s a first round pick you can re you can you can replenish your asset pool take LaVine off our hands do it I would I would do that um so you’re you’re getting a play you can argue about how much he would help but you’re getting a player who could help and you’re replenishing your draft pool that always seems to be unpl if that’s even a word uh I’d be interested in that Ethan they got better when he got hurt I I mean I’m just saying they got better when he got hurt and I like LaVine I I I liked him as a rookie I thought he was gonna be a better player than Wiggins actually even though Wiggins got all the hype on that team but I I I I just I just don’t know I mean they got better when he got hurt and and people say well okay you put him in this system defensively he still has some athleticism you’ll protect him uh with bam I’ll say this I I mean I’m looking at the current roster and internal development or not they’re gonna have a hard time selling me that this roster is better than last year’s last year I bought it okay that it was better than the year before yeah we bought it because it was coming off of finals and you could you could sell what they had last year and Tyler was coming back off injury they made it to the finals without him they drafted hakz again I didn’t expect much from yic last year he actually exceeded my expectations and exceeded theirs uh but when with some of the things that they did you know Josh for Gabe I you know I I bought some of it and Kevin Lov being there for full season you’re gonna have a hard time selling me this time their point of attack defense is going to be an absolute effing disaster anyway uh speaking of not a disaster get some Panthers jerseys hey it’s Ethan skick for the five reasons Sports Network we’ve got a great new sponsor that fits with us perfectly it’s called jerseys 305.com that’s jerseys 305.com this is your home for deadstock and vintage jerseys from the heat Panthers Dolphins Marlins and the other local teams their mission was born from a passion for wearing jerseys of the old Styles and the past players jerseys 305 aims to make every fan stand out from the crowd with unique pieces that you don’t commonly see anymore maybe 10 15 20 years ago but not today and jerseys 305 was created by the fans for the fans they’re die hards just like you in fact they’re probably listening to this episode right now so check them out jerseys 305 their partnership with f Reon Sports celebrating with a 10% discount on the next purchase using the code five a checkout unlock your exclusive savings on the entire vintage collection let’s talk about the roster as it is while saying okay that this may not be it I we you know again there they’re they’re working on things I know people don’t like me to say that but then you know there were the there were the Dual tweets from Anthony and Ira whenever you get the dual tweets um you know you know what I’m saying uh and they they came out basically saying that they had so many players guaranteed spots and they were considering and if they add Orlando Robinson as a guarantee I we know what that that you know how fans take that I I and I understand why they take it that way when you get the dual tweets uh sometimes it’s the trio of tweets from the from the beat guys um I tend to be the cleanup guy uh afterwards uh after all these tweets come out so look there may be nothing else and but there may be something else if there is nothing else okay this is where we’re at all right they’re gonna lose Caleb okay I I have Haywood at about 40% to return um I know he promised yeah I know he promised my daughter at heat camp that he would return uh and I want her to be a newsbreaker but I I’m just saying that I I his Market is is pretty robust from what I hear and their vehicles to retain him as we went through on the podcast are not are not great um and so we’ll see they’ve resigned Kevin Love I like it for a lot of different reasons but I mean impact on the basketball court we have to moderate at this point of his career he’ll be more effective than haslum was or play more than Haslam did in the last two years of his career but he’s basically assuming the Haslam role and I expect to see maybe Kevin in the organization they it was a good move okay for a lot of reasons mentorship leadership and I I thought he played well last season he plays well with Jimmy in particular but again let’s okay yeah the Delan W things the dlan wght thing surprises me I I really thought um they would try to retain him at the minimum I’m trying to figure out what went on there because he went to Milwaukee and again they don’t have any point of attack Defenders um if Haywood leaves along with Caleb I mean you’re counting on Josh I Josh didn’t defend very well for the first two months of last season uh he found his role offensively a little bit they’re really short now I do think a dsj Dennis Smith Jr who keeps liking Brady’s posts saying that he should be coming to Miami I know that he wanted to come to Miami last year if Dam had come he he got tired of waiting uh I think he could replace what dlan gave you but again rotationally I mean they’re thin and I I don’t even know like in the back court are you starting Rosier and hero at this moment is Duncan can Duncan walk can Rosier turn his neck around like we haven’t got reports on any of that that I could trust at this point and that’s your and the other guy is Tyler who like you said is liking post basically calling this a toxic fan base which it is um like like that’s your back court you got one you got one guy who who apparently hurt his neck in bed um another guy who who a shooter a shooter with a back problem and and and and a and a two guard who at this point um you know the entire fan base is all over and then in the front court you don’t have Caleb you may not have Haywood I I like the wear Edition I like the pick um I like the second round pick looks interesting to me kashad Johnson looks interesting to me but you are definitely talking about running it back then like I can’t I I can’t spin that that’s and and how much improvement are you getting from and hakz to make up for the rest of it because that is what they’re going to lean into but now they also have their number one guy who I think is going to play hard and a lot for them this year because he needs a contract at the end of the season but you never know how this could go this is again I think it’s gonna go a certain way I’ve said that I’ve been right so far but it doesn’t mean I’m gonna be right once the season starts and what if Jimmy goes in the tank I’ll tell you the the the big things and you touched on it at the end there um because I’m I’m trying to think of reasons to get excited for this season coming up now at least I can be excited for hockey right they just had the parade I could see how the Panthers defend that championship and I’m obviously I’m a heat lifer so I’m gonna be there no thick or thin I will be there for the Miami Heat but when you talk about yic and hakz it’s like this is going to be one of those years and we haven’t had hope they prove me wrong we haven’t had too many of these years as Miami Heat fans but every now and then it’s like well I’m watching for the younger guys I’m watching for the development I don’t have high expectations because this you know I know the last couple of years they were in the playin they didn’t look like playin teams on paper the last couple years this year they look like a playin team going into it so that’s that’s kind of where my expectation is but I want to see what hakz and yovic mainly can do and obviously I’m curious to see if you know Jimmy plays more than 60 if he plays enough games to be eligible for postseason Awards this year if he plays 65 Plus in the regular season I’m interested to see that but um you know this this running it thing which is basically what it is minus a couple of important from last year um it’s it’s troubling and you know I know you could talk about toxic fan bases and yeah maybe there’s a bit somebody mentioned there’s kind of a heat Twitter Civil War right now you can understand why I mean this organization has set such a high bar and you know if you zoom out over the last 20 years even longer than that if you go back to the acquisition of Zo like they’ve made so many big seismic moves over the past two three decades that you you kind of expect something like that especially coming off a disappointing season and postseason and we’re probably not going to get that you talk about those dueling tweets which I think hints something that they’re probably not doing anything uh it’s just it’s troubling like as a Heat fan it really is troubling thinking I don’t know if essentially the same roster can really do better than what they did last year and that’s what what we’re in store for this year well look the Panthers lost some depth pieces yesterday right and some Panther fans are upset so I say welcome to the club the Panthers are officially now a major team in South Florida cuz people are complaining about transactions but again they’re keeping their top six and their top goendale uh the heat are not in that position right now now the thing I keep coming back to is if Pat Ry doesn’t think he can get one of these guys why is he still running the show and I don’t say that to mean I’m pushing Pat out but like Pat is late in his life he could go do other things he must believe that one of these things is going to break at some point because having a sort of middle of theack playing team now which essentially again I know they made it to the finals two years ago so we can couch that either direction glass half full glass half empty but to essentially have a team that coming into this season okay unless hakz and yovic and I’ve been in favor of keeping yic okay I have all right I’ve said that consistently all right but like unless they make major major strides this season the heat are not better than Boston they’re not better than Philly they’re not better than New York they’re likely not better than Cleveland they’re likely not better than Orlando they’re likely not better than Indiana I just got to six okay I just got to six now other teams there’s still garbage in the Eastern Conference okay I don’t think Toronto is going to be very good still I don’t think Detroit’s going to be very good still I don’t think Charlotte’s going to be very good still I know Washington’s not going to be very good still okay the Nets are going to be horrific okay so essentially what you’re saying is like you have a cushion under you right there’s a floor because there’s five or six teams that are just gonna suck all right so what are you again you’re 39 to 44 wins 38 to 44 wins depending on Jimmy’s availability and attitude I I mean that’s not that’s the worst place to be in the NBA it’s the worst place to be now they will argue okay I’m going to give their argument before they give it they will get argue that they have really talented young players now that their their ceilings of their young players are higher than than like you know the guys they’ve developed like the stues and the Vincent and the mcgutter and all those guys that you’ve got young guys with like hakz and yovic and now we uh and others and these are higher upside young players and that we should look forward to that and they will lean into that but it’s hard to lean into that when you got Jimmy Butler still sitting there and and that is kind of why I sort of think and I’ll end it here Alex I I I I sort of think we’re at this stage where I don’t think Jimmy’s traded now but January February I don’t know I I I mean let’s see where he’s at at this point but I think you have to be looking at at at maybe a pivot I bam is not a number one um he’s a number two but I think you’re looking for a pivot at that point and saying okay with bam yic hakz where and then the assets we get for Jimmy then here’s a reboot okay and we’re going to try to accumulate as many picks I still think Jimmy provided again he’s reasonably healthy will have value at the deadline because of what he’s done in the past in the playoffs and that there can be teams that will talk themselves into it and that he will actually be fairly coveted at that stage so I don’t expect to trade now but I would watch Houston I would watch there are other teams out there that I think uh you can look at with him and and I I you know it’s going to be hard to argue against it if this team is middling around 500 I that’s that’s where I see it so again things could change in the next 24 hours this organization has pulled out of their bleeps before okay I I they have so I never count it out but um I’m not blaming them for the Mitchell thing just like I didn’t blame them for the Lillard thing I I but I understand Heat fans frustration that it just kind of feels like they’re at the poker table and they have no chips Y and and that’s that’s been the case analogy they just have no chips like it’s it’s late in the night and there’s just they just they can’t there’s really nothing that they can do at this point um okay and I’m going to get this from letter because this is kind of funny because I’m just described as the water carrier so I’ll just you put this one up from Leonard Vance here we go you ready this is where Heath fans are right now and lonard we appreciate you following so I I I’m not I’m not mocking you I’m just saying it’s just kind of funny because 99% of my responses my tweets are that I’m basically doing the work of the front office uh if they are healthy they will be better Ethan want to go cover some other team Ethan has to be the most negative person I ever heard you ain’t been on Twitter you ain’t been on Twitter lately you had been on Twitter lately all right we appreciate it um thanks for uh thanks for following more episodes coming up follow the YouTube channel I’m just going to try to present both sides that’s what I try to do and then I’ll tell you what I think after that and that’s that’s I I don’t again I don’t count these guys out okay Pat Eric Andy Mickey they’re smart people okay uh and they’ve done a lot of good down here and they found a lot of really good players that other people haven’t found I think the draft pick’s going to be really good uh but I got to call it like I see it like they are they seem to be operating in a different space it’s not because they won’t spend it’s because they are limited in terms of what they can offer and these you know again sometimes they’re right not to offer it even what they do have like Bradley Beal last year but I understand I’m just saying I understand Heat fans frustrations um with uh with coming back with V with virtually the same group all right and Kart says it best it’s only been three days let’s see what else happens exactly um follow us for all of it we appreciate it thanks Alex um thank you and check uh check out playback playback download the playback app we’ll be on there Eternal and everybody will be spilling news before I tell him is he’s allowed to have a good one everybody

The Miami Heat are off to an uninspiring start to NBA free agency. Heat fans have been hoping their team could strike a deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers to acquire Donovan Mitchell. Unfortunately for Miami, the Cavs star has signed an extension with Cleveland and committed long term. Hosts Ethan Skolnick and Alex Donno discuss where Pat Riley can turn to next.