Atlanta Hawks offseason outlook, key decisions, Trae Young, roster building, and more w/ Glen Willis

Atlanta Hawks offseason outlook, key decisions, Trae Young, roster building, and more w/ Glen Willis

On today’s show, it is part two with myself and Glenn Willis talking all things Hawks off season and it’s coming up right now. You are Locked On Hawks, your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. Hello friends, welcome to episode 1968 of the Lock on Hawks podcast. I am your host, Brad Roland, coming to you on a Sunday evening into Monday. And today’s podcast is brought to you by the folks at FanDuel Sportsbook. Right now, if you’re a new customer, get $200 in bonus bets when your first Father bet wins at FanDuel. And the place to go is fanduel.com to get started. I also want to encourage you at the top of the show, as I always do, to make us your first listen each and every day here at Lon Hawks. Check us out and subscribe to the pod anywhere you find your podcast. That includes Apple, Spotify, YouTube, etc. Please rate, review, and of course, tell your friends about the show. If you missed it, I dropped a part one of this conversation on a Saturday evening into Sunday. A little bit of an early drop. Usually, I group those two together when it’s a two-part conversation, but because there was a little bit of a risk of a spoiler with regard to the president basketball operations search that could come down at any point if the Hawks want to make a higher and announce that, that can drop any time now. So, I want to always get that one out there early. And then part two now is going to be following up. So, start with part one if you missed that already. And if not, dive back in now with part two of myself and Glenn before we move on to some stuff that like is future facing explicitly. Um, did anything impress you or really worry you at the end of the season or even this whole season? Is there anything that like really stands out to you as like, hey, this is a really good thing you be beyond just, you know, Dyson being you could say Dice if you want to, but um, Dyson being awesome or Zach or whatever. Is there anything that’s like sticking in your brain now that we’ve been we’re two weeks, three weeks away from them playing that’s like that was a really interesting thing or good thing or even a bad thing? Yeah. I mean, so I’ll hit on a few things. One is for all the people who uh want to be mad that Anak is not seven feet tall. Like you can think what you want. I I did not I did not ask to do this just for the record. I know I’ve been doing this a lot recently. This is not pre pre-plann. I’m actually just asking Glenn the question. Okay. Yeah. But I thought once he was made the starter, he just kept getting better and better and better. I mean, he he added a above the break three this year was shooting those with confidence and stuff. He’s still not a volume shooter. And then the ball handling the passing and he started becoming more active defending in space, attacking ball handlers, you know, be creating turnovers. Um, and and then you know, as Kevin and Tyler kind of talked about, when you have Enka, you do have a bit of a narrower path from a raw circus structure standpoint. have to have uh weeks out of rim protection at the four, you have to have more rebound, you know, and so there I mean, but but apart from like the top 20 players in league, that is the reality for everybody else in the even guys who are like 30th to 40th in the league require certain kind of construction to uh you know generate the kind of best fitting lineups and all that sort of stuff. But I think I think in Yaka, I’d put that right up there with as good outcome and and for the production they got for him, he’s on a I think on a really good value contract. I think that helps. Uh I think Mo’s uh progress the last month and a half of the season was was awesome. He’s I think the I think we all know the big thing there is can he figure out the offensive side and it got better. It got cleaner. It got more stable as kind he went on there. Um for me when I look at this though I think it was worthwhile to let Dyson play back at point guard basically for the season for his own development. But I will also say that I don’t think that could be the plan next year. Dyson uh is uh good. I mean, he uses his length, gets to that floater, you know, he’s really good. He’s has that spin move he can kind of get to, but he only has like two or three kind of go-tos that he leans on all the time. And that’s fine when you’re playing a bottom 12 defense in the league. That’s going to work. That’s going to be a fine. That’s going to be enough. You’re playing against a top 10 defense that they’re going to be like, “We’re not letting you do that, Dyson.” you know, you’re not you’re not that your bag quote isn’t diverse enough that we could just take away the drive from you and make you shoot the ball, you know, from the three-point line or what have you. Uh, and so I think I I think the investment in him was worthwhile. Um, and I think that he will be better next year kind of playing off the catch, playing as a second side, you know, second side creator and all that sort of stuff. But for me, that can’t be what’s what’s there. And for me, re another one I’ll point to is Reisha. I’ll hit on Trey in a second, too. But Risha, just how composed he was for 19. Well, he’s 19 most of the season. And early in the year, he wasn’t making shots. He just kept working and just kept go, you know, just kept showing up and doing his thing. Uh, and I think he showed a lot of a lot of growth as a lot of growth as well. We all know like he’s got to get stronger. He talks about that. It’s not like he doesn’t talk about that. He does talk about that. And then I, you know, the other thing we I know you and I hear a lot about is Trey’s quote efficiency. Um, and for I I will say for one that I think a lot of that conversation is unfair to Trey. He had he he he had so much workload because they’re not other ball handling, not other creation, not enough shooting to kind of create the spacing that he needs. Um, and and so for me, I think, you know, I use the word sacrif I think Trey really sacrificed a lot this year personally. you know, to create space for the young guys to get all the reps that they needed to kind of grow their games. And I think that’s leadership from Trey. I think that’s impressive leadership from Trey. And I think he deserves a lot of credit for buying into playing with a lot of young guys this year where a lot of guys at where he is in his career. It’s like, hey, the clock’s ticking and we got to, you know, and so I think Trey deserves a ton of credit for the way he navigated this season. I think I think I love like after games you hear him answer a question. and he would often say, “Not just me, right? We,” you know, he talked there’s a lot of wei in his language. And so I was just really impressed by how he navigated the year. We’ll probably go back to other guys, but let’s just stay on Trey for a second. Um, there’s this whole discussion, of course, about whether you trade him or not, and I’ve been foreshadowing it for a year. I mean, it’s not it is a it’s not a crazy conversation to have, which I’ I’ve been trying to put forward. Like, I I don’t think it’s crazy. He’s got a year left in his contract. all those things. But you’re 100% right um about the buyin, how much that matters, the way he carried himself this season. And while the Hawks have a talented roster, a talented core that we both, I believe, I can speak for you on this one, really like they have a lot of young talented players, I think if you looked at just through the 2020 425 lens, a pretty darn limited offensive roster. Yep. spacing wise, creationwise, and especially when Jaylen went out, but even even with Jaylen, like Jaylen’s not a perfect offensive player, like he’s a talented offensive player, but he’s he’s not somebody that I would I would describe as like this perfect number two option on a on a really good team right now offensively as far as like creation and stuff. So, all that said, like Trey was asked to do a ton. He did a lot. The efficiency is what it is, but he also led the league in assists and all those things that they get kind of just tossed to the side because people don’t want to talk about that. It’s like, well, it kind of matters. Like, he kind of played differently. But, but I was going to ask you this later, but we’ll just do it now. Like, what do you think of the seemingly never ending debate about whether they trade trade or not? Because I did some reporting on it last week, and it seems like it’s trending towards him not being traded. Uh, which I personally agree with, but also we led with this in our earlier discussion on this recording about how that could all change with the front office. Like if you have a president operations that’s different. All the reporting that’s out there from Jake, from Mark Stein, from me, etc. that points to trade sticking around, it’s all with a caveat of like the president hasn’t been hired yet, so things can change. Do you have a thought on like even just from a from a team building standpoint? Because it is interesting like he it’s always been this way. Trey is a limited not limited, Trey is a challenging player to build around. That’s always been true. Even if you love Trey, it’s always been true. He’s a 61 skinny small guard and that’s not the player that anyone would pick out of a lineup. If you could choose the perfect player to build around, you wouldn’t pick him. He’s also really really good. Uh that’s my own spin. He’s awesome. Yeah, he’s he’s he’s a very very good player. So long preamble, but where do you step like sort of fall on on that whole discussion point because it is a natural pivot this summer between the extension and all that stuff. So, I mean, for me, what I try to look at is sort of what are the trends in the league, right? And we can we could take Mico Bridges trade and set it aside as an outlier, right? Yeah. Um, but like you look at what Dallas got for Luca, like you you look at other deals like where where guys are of that level are moving, teams are are just no longer willing to give up. like, you know, I mean, you you go back to the Desante trade that the Hawks made that was just, you know, way overpayment, you know, not and and I appreciate, you know, what Dejante did with he was with the Hawks. He he played, he showed up and, you know, all it was it was a rough fit. I mean, no, I mean, everyone knows that it was a really really rough fit. Um, but I’m not trying to hate on Dejante when I say that. No, but um but I just think unlike say two or three years ago like when um you know Drew got traded to Milwaukee like you remember how much Milwaukee give up to get like you know a ton you know KD hard you all kinds of those big all-in trades teams are not teams gen teams are not willing to just meet your asking price you know and just you know especially for I I I do think just because are going to say this to you and me on this. I think Giannis might be different if he becomes available because because Giannis is the top player in the league. Like there is a distinction there. Trey is really good. Giannis is a different level of player and also has another Giannis contract just to get out in front of anybody that say what about Giannis. I do think Giannis is gonna get a lot like he might get he’s going to get a package like that if again if he asks out right. But sub sub top three in player in the league level I think you’re 100% right. Yeah. But I mean you look at you look at the situation in Dallas and it’s like how did they not get I mean well everyone more like I mean yeah you cultivate a market and then you tell everyone in the market like you’re all competing with each other there there is an approach to this right and and so it’s just but but so for me I just feel like it’s hard I I can’t I can’t think of a scenario where they could generate enough return value that it makes sense right and and and and I I agree with you that building around trade is different than say building around say Luca, you know, or what have you. Um, uh, I mean there’s some common themes there, you know. Yeah. But even beyond I mean just just to take it away from the the the toxic Luca thing, pick pick another pick Jason Tatum, pick pick whichever bigger player you want to pick. Right. Right. So I mean, but you know, we talked about it, you know, on 29. It’s like I don’t I’m not gonna be surprised if Boston gets in the mix for Giannis FS out, you know. I’m not gonna at all. Houston, Houston will chase him, you know, uh, you know, uh, so that’ll be interesting to me. But, but I just I can’t think I can’t imagine a scenario where trading Trey makes sense to me. Um, but what comes along with that is you got to know what you need to put around Trey and you have to find a way to put that around him. Um, you need run protection, you need rebounding, you need shooting, you need size, you need secondary creators and initiators. Um and and that’s and the Hawks didn’t have like even half as much as they needed this past season. Today was brought to you by FanDuel and the NBA playoffs are now in full swing and every night delivers highlight worthy performances, major momentum shifts and can’t miss moments allinone. Whether it’s that game shot you actually wanted to watch or break out player. There’s never been a better time to get on the action than with FanDuel sports book. And at FanDuel, they make it really easy to stay in the game before tip off and also live with player props, performance trends, cig parlays. Fans have more ways than ever to play smart and also win big. That’s especially true during the playoffs when it games almost every single night. It’s also the case every day of the year at FanDuel. They have offerings across the sports betting space from overunders to point spreads, money lines, game props, futures, player props, live betting, and of course sandame parlays. And they have every single sport you can think of honestly across the board. That’s a lot by the NBA, which cover on this podcast all the time. Plus, they have college sports, NFL, MLB, NHL, UFC, golf, tennis, soccer, boxing, and every single thing in between. And if you’re new to FanDuel, it’s the perfect time right now to sign up. Head to fanduel.com and place your first $5 bet. If that that bet wins, you get $200 in bonus bets. That’s $5 bet. If it wins, $200 in bonus bets. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. We’ve talked about this a lot, too. They they have built well around Trey the last year or two. Like a lot of the a lot of the pieces that you would want around Trey, they are starting to put around Trey. Big defensive first guard and Dice Daniels, right? Perfect perfect fit in some respects. Two-way wing player at number one overall who projects to be a shooter who could also defend, make the right pass, like check all those boxes, right? Jaylen Johnson, two-way player, big, physical, uh, athletic, all those things. Even a Kongwoo, like I I do think, and we’ll come back to this, I’m sure, in a lab, if you were picking a center to play with Trey, you might be a you might want someone a little bit bigger than Anka. That’s fair to say. We’ll come back to that. But Aneka is good. He’s a good player. He’s a versatile player. He’s a talented player. Um, but I say all that. I’m sure they know this. And in fact, I know they know this people in the organ people that are still in the organization post Landry. They need more offensive juice. They know that. And you know, it’s always this challenge about like starting lineups because like if you look at especially if you if you buy into a Kong Woo, which not everybody does, their starting five is looks like it’s kind of set, right? Like they have these five guys that’s their core and they’re they’ll play different positions. It kind of makes logical sense. They’re like, “Well, where are they going to upgrade if they It’s” Well, at some point, everybody, if the Hawks try to make a championship run in a couple years, I can pretty much guarantee you it will not be those five players starting for them. That’s and that’s that’s true for any team. Go look at Go look at at at title winning teams for years and years and years. They always do something to change it up. It’s not like you don’t just bring in five guys and organically have them just grow and grow and grow. win a championship very often. It happens every once in a while maybe, but like even Boston, Boston went and got Drew. Boston went and got Porzingis. Like there’s always a lot made of of Brown and Tatum and yeah, they had those were their core guys, but they went and added around them. When Giannis won a title in Milwaukee, they went and added around them around. He they went and got Drew like it always Yeah. the Derek White Derek White was huge for them, you know, and and OKC it is, it has been a more organic process, but it’s taken a number of years. It’s taken forever. And they they needed Hardenstein. They needed Hardenstein. They needed someone who can deal with Jokic, you know, and Caruso. I mean, you you this last summer they add Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartstein. And I understand if you’re not a sicko, you don’t maybe understand how good those guys are, but they’re really, really, really good. They’re not famous, but they’re really, really good starting caliber player. I’m not saying like, would it be great if the Hawks could bring in a star, like a genuine star this summer? Sure, it would be. I’m not saying it would be not always available to you. That’s the the the the um long and short of the NBA, especially if you’re not the Lakers, if you’re not a big market team, is that it’s not always available to you. You can try if you want to, but if Giannis doesn’t want to come to you, doesn’t want to come to Atlanta, you functionally cannot trade for him. He has to want to come. Someone at that level. Maybe you can maybe you can buy a little one someone else. Zion is a popular name recently. Like there are guys, but like it’s more often this the next tier of guys like your Carusos, your Heart and Steen, your Derrick Whites, that level of player. Derrick White’s awesome, too. But it’s uh so that’s what you can make a bigger move without making a bigger famous player splash trade. Like it’s it’s interest it’s also hard to forecast. I don’t think anybody had the Thunder being able to trade Josh Giddy for Alex Guso straight up on their radar and that happened. I I don’t think I mean Hart both breaks out and then the Knicks can’t pay. It’s just weird, man. The Knicks the Knicks get capped out. They can’t they literally cannot pay him what he’s worth and he signs with OKC for 30. It’s a weird league. Things happen. Yeah. And they and they Nicks missed him like Oh, and they wanted to keep him and they they they’ve literally had no mechanism to keep him. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not exaggerating. That’s the way the NBA works at times. Like they had no possible way to retain him. They tried and they couldn’t do it. Right. I know. It’s just It’s funny because you people DMing me asking about like what does Yiannis trade look like? And I’m like how does the Hawks make the best? First of all, to get Giannis, they would have to basically gut the whole roster, you know. They they yeah they they they can make an offer that’d be very competitive but the question is do you want to make that kind of offer and I’m not saying I I I my posture has been look as in an inner circle hall of famer if you get any intel at all that he might be willing to come to you you have to make the call but making the call does not mean you have to you that you have to trade everything that’s not tied down for him there’s there is a line there but yeah people are talking about like well can can they get him for on for on yka and Terrence man and three picks like no that’s not that won’t be what it is everybody. It will be Jaylen. It will be more than Jaylen. Jayen and Yaka and Zach and you know, who knows, right? But but I mean, but but in that scenario where they trade all of their, you know, young pieces to get him, the issue Milwaukee had this year was outside of Dame and Giannis, the rest of that garbage was like, you know, Portoris missed time with the suspension. Brooks Brooke doesn’t move the way he was moving a couple years ago, you know, on defense. Uh, and that, you know, there just wasn’t nearly enough talent around this and not even close to enough talent around those two guys. And that’s what happens when you, I mean, when you trade for a guy who’s is Dame’s age and everything that they gave up for, you know, in that deal. Um, they really had no mechanism to kind of go out and add add, you know, core functional pieces around them anymore. and and that it feels like the only path to Hawks landing in would be they’d be back at square one having to go find five or six like veterans that’ll play on contracts that are half what they’re worth, you know, because they might be able to win a title. Uh and Atlanta hasn’t, you know, you know, the the Deari and Milsap and you know, those contracts aside, the Hawks don’t really have a track record of uh being a place that guys will, you know, take less money to go play there. Um, so well, and this is actually as we kind of spin it forward a little bit, one of the mechanisms for getting better this summer, they could trade for somebody too. Very, very possible. Um, but they they might have the mid-level. In fact, they have the mid-level available to them right now. They want to use it. And that’s not always a tool to get a super sexy player, but you can get a top seven level rotation player that you really need. I mean, it’s a team that does need more depth. um you always need more depth, but we’ve seen it in the playoffs like you need a certain amount of depth. You get banged up or whatever. Um I make I made a big deal about Jaylen getting banged up and that was unfortunate, but also they put themselves in a situ in a situation where they could not withstand that and you generally speaking, yeah, you never want to lose a fringe star player like Jaylen, but you need to be able to punk paper over that to some degree. The fact that they kind of just had nothing there was tough. Like they had they gota they had to fix that. So there’s you can do that. You got a trade exception that you created with the Dejante trade you could potentially use. They are they have some stuff they can do, but they don’t also they don’t have 30 million in cap space. They can’t just go sign anybody they want. Like pick your player going back on thing briefly because everyone’s like why can’t they just go sign Miles Turner? I’m like with what? Like they don’t have a way to sign Miles Turner. He’s not signed for the middle level exception. Like yeah I know he’s a good free agent center. Cool. Like they don’t have a way to do that. That’s just one example. But you have to understand what the mechanisms actually are that are realistic. Um, so I don’t know. It’s it’s a challenging situation. It’s not bad, but it is challenging, especially with what we just talked about. Like they do need stuff. Even if they don’t make a bigger move, and I when I say bigger, I mean like trading one of their core pieces, that kind of move. If they don’t do that, you’re left with do you resign Caris? Do you uh bring back Larry Ants? Do you use the mid-level on somebody? Do you try to find a distressed asset that makes $20 million you can trade for with a with a Jonte trade exception? They have moves to make. You got you have you have draft picks to trade if you want to do that, but has fit in the money. Let’s just stipulate for a second that they’re in our example, they’re not going to trade any of their top five guys in this example. GM Glenn, Pobo Glenn, what do they need to do? Like what do you think they’ve actually like pri what’s priority one? Because they have needs. We all know that. Shooting size, all those. What is priority one with the roster as is currently constructed, which includes all the guys that they currently have signed. I mean, I have no idea how likely it is, but they need someone. They need another person who can score like 23 24 points a game, self-create, all that sort of stuff. That’s all. Is that all? I’m kidding. Uh That’s I mean that Trey needs that kind of running mate, right? Trey needs that kind of player on the floor with him. I know the concept of Dejante was supposed to be that and we know, you know, it didn’t didn’t end up working out or whatever and I hope I hope DeJonte comes in next season healthy and I hope he has a great year. You know, I still, you know, I wait for everybody, you know, and all that. But apart from that, what what what the really really good teams have is let’s say in slots seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, kind of in those slots, right? The Hawks had young guys for the most part in those slots, right, this year. And a lot of those teams, even if you’re talking about 10, 11, 12, they have guys who really can’t play 82 games in a year anymore. Maybe they’re 33, 34 years old, but in a pinch, somebody gets hurt, whatever. You throw them on the court and they’re experienced. They they give you stable. They give you stability. They give you a certain baseline of just professional, you know, effective production and and it doesn’t that doesn’t crater your rotation like a young player that’s going to naturally have ups and downs. Uh so there’s nothing wrong with them penciling in Zach for you know 600 more minutes next year than he played this year, whatever the right number is, right? uh and you know big number for Enca as well. But what the teams that can win 50 to 55 games have is in those slots they have guys that are just professional, experienced, skilled are going to go out there and not drag the team down. Just give them that baseline level of stable execution. Uh and that’s what the Hawks didn’t have. Like when they had to play Dave Rody at the four, it’s you know it just can’t do it. you know, uh, when you when you’re trying to play from 15 points behind, you got knee angle on the floor and they can’t keep him from getting switched onto a guard, you know, those those kinds of things. Um, uh, when you know, Terrence man, you’re using him at the point of attack and he’s not really the strongest point of attack defender anymore. He’s a good good team defender and, you know, all that sort of stuff. Um and so so for me it’s it you know finding guys that can you know I mean Nance was kind of one of those as the third center like when they had to go to him you know I know I know I know their defensive he was like his net rating on season like minus nine but he played with a lot of bad like a lot of bad he was playing it’s I was picking on Larry a little bit back then but he was playing he was playing with Rody a lot which I’m kind we’ve established that. So you’re no you’re 100% right having more of those guys you can kind of break class break a class of emergency and maybe it is Larry I mean by the way there’s a definitely a path to the Hawks signing Larry Nance Jr. They should and I I agree with you for whatever as long as price is reasonable. Sure. My I don’t know if you agree with me but my thing is he shouldn’t be your second center. He should be your third center. Yeah. That would be what I would want to do if I was the Hawks. Um, I don’t know. I don’t know who the second guy is, but So, I think what So, typically, so what what I think it should be is this. I think I think it could be a another guy who’s like really more defensively oriented and rebounding and has size, all that sort of stuff bigger. But what’s nice is when you’re playing from behind, Larry’s shooting his his shooting, you can turn and that’s what good teams have flexibility and optionality to work with and and and and I mean I wrote I mean I wrote his you know kind of season review thing for piece hoops and I just talked about how what a pro he was and just how constructive he was and how he fits their culture. they should bring him back if if he wants to come back in my view. But I but I agree with you like having him be the guy that plays seven what whatever say 15 minutes a game you know every single game irrespective of matchup that’s not the right plan you know in my mind but being part of a three three center rotation where you can swing towards offense when you need to because you’re playing from behind he has a ton of value there. Yeah, I think optionality is very often underd discussed as far as like how you build a team. And look, I mean, we we’ve been watching the playoffs. We won’t do like a playoff breakdown here, but it it does tell you a lot sometimes like you look at these teams and you might have a situation where you got a player that’s like really valuable against one team and then the next round they can’t play. like and that’s that’s an extreme example, but it’s it’s true that that happens a lot in the playoffs or in a certain matchup or whatever. Um so many examples you can go back to like when Cleveland beat Golden State like Kevin Love like played like eight like you know and then but within that that last game he got out there he you know and so even the really high level players sometimes just get played I mean go bear you know at times you know couldn’t play in some matchups and stuff like that. So even guys that are top 50 players, you know, you run into a playoff context where they it just doesn’t work and you and then you have I mean I mean Richard Jefferson was playing more minutes at times than Kevin Love was, you know, and different runs and and that it’s just funny how it works that way. Yeah. And you have you also have um not one way is too strong, but like inevitably you’re going to have guys on your team that are stronger. I’m talking about like role players on your team that are stronger on one side of the floor or the other. for the Hawks. George Nyang is obviously more more offense leaning. V Crerachche honestly leans more offense with his shooting. He’s he’s not he’s not a super strong defender. He’s not not terrible, but he’s not a physical guy. Moay is the other side right now. Mogay is defense first by a lot. And in a real playoff series, Moay’s offense would be a capital P problem right now. And that’s fine. He’s a young player. But like you’re building your roster out and you you know you’re going to have some guys that are doing that. You gota hopefully you find a few role players that can kind of do both and hold up a little bit for you. I think Caris Lebert’s a good example of somebody can actually hold up for you on both ends of the floor. Not a great defender, but it’s fine there. Won’t get won’t get destroyed there. Can I play can play offense, right? Hopefully Terence Mann makes a leap in year two with the Hawks. We’ll see how that goes. But um they at least have a path to being two-way players. But you need more of those guys, too. Like as much as I I keep saying they need shooting and they do. I firmly believe they need shooting. It is hard to find shooters that can also play defense. That’s like that’s a that’s a league problem. It’s just what it is. Um same thing on on Yeah, you you need more size for sure. Everyone understands that. That was magnified by Clint being hurt, Jaylen being hurt, etc. But like you don’t want to size just for size. You do need some skill level, some versatility. You don’t want to just sign Bob Boon because you need size. Like there’s there’s that’s obviously extreme example, but you know what I mean. It’s It’s not easy to build out your bench, but you do want to kind of push I don’t say this meanly. I think I actually came on on your show on 29, but if you can go into the season with like V and Mo being like your 11th and 12th players on your team versus being like your eighth and ninth players, that’s a meaningful difference to me. I’m not saying that’s that’s why they have to stay. Maybe Bo Gay breaks out on offense and he becomes this awesome player. That’s definitely possible. I’m just talking about like right now in October of 2025, you do have you kind of know what these guys are to some degree and you need to be able to lift them up by not having them play in every matchup. Like optionality, they had none. I mean, we joked about it earlier, but they really didn’t have by the end of the season, they had very very little optionality. They just didn’t have any. Yeah. Yeah. and and and beat’s shooting progress was, you know, miraculous this year. But there but there but there are times when you you go up against a really physical big team and you you need to be able to say you’re not playing tonight. You need that you need that option to be able especially when you have I we talked about it earlier, but like Trey you can’t take off the floor. We all he’s obviously so if you know you have a guy that is your current best player that yes, he’s going to have to you have to scheme around him a little bit. That means inherently you probably can’t have a second guy like that in a real s in a real situation. Like and that’s not to say beat’s not beat’s a more effective defender than Trey, but like that’s a good example. Same with Nang. You get at the at the absolute highest levels of a playoff series with what we’re watching every night right now in the playoffs. You’re going to have trouble playing Trey and George Nang together. I I think you just would. That’s just that’s an example. George Dang is making $8 million and is a primary prime example of a guy who doesn’t have to play for you every night. You know what I mean? He could be a valuable player on your team. I think George Dang is underrated honestly by Hawks fans, but he is flawed. And if he he has to not play like, “All right, George, you sit over there with Quinn tonight. Yeah, we’re good.” Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. I mean the other thing is like the the the enticing thing with V is the defense and the physicality and the slice is an issue on defense for sure. Right. Yeah. But his offensive processing is elite. I mean elite. I’ll go back to you. Capital E elite, right? It’s true. On the catch, he sees everything, makes the right play all the time. So they can if they can just kind of get him to improve. I don’t I don’t know if it’s technique or just becoming stronger physically or whatever on defense. He he uh I mean he plays zero he executes 0.5 as good as anybody on the team you know period and and and there’s value to that but like I said like our our discussion here is on a good team there are some nights where you’re like you’re not playing tonight you know yeah not the right game you need you need the optionality and that’s why you need to add depth and um we won’t go back to this entire thing but when we talked when you and I talked when you and Kevin talked me all the when we all talked at the deadline about the DeAndre Hunter trade that there were mixed reactions too everybody kind of agreed that it was like look it’s kind of a TBD until of the summer because it’s like the not I won’t say the entire a lot of the reason why why they made that trade whether you liked it or not was for the flexibility in the future y here we are flexibility they do have more room under the tax line if they want to stay under the tax line they have all those things Carris is a free agent if they want to let him go whatever George is a movable contract contract. If they don’t want to keep the yang, they can trade it if they want to. That’s an easily movable deal. Um or a package for something else. Like you could you could probably trade for just this is just pie in the sky. You could probably trade Terrence man, George Nyang, and a pick or two and get a real real player. Not a star, but a real player who makes $25 million a year. You could do that. It’s possible. Um so anyway, they have optionality. I we don’t have time to get get into the Anka thing, but it it does remind me of what you said earlier about like basically everyone that’s not a star in the league, and this is incredibly true at center almost more than any spot, is that they’re going to have limitations in some form or fashion. There are sevenfooters who are offensively limited. There are non-sefooters. I’m using that kind of in a funny way, but not that’s always the discussion. Well, we need a sevenfooter. Okay. Uh, and I’ve done the numbers and in fact when we and if I can convince you later on the summer to do player castle player castle with me again, Glenn, we’ll do this in in detail. But I have a lot of numbers about like how few NBA centers play 32 minutes a game or more. Like how few guys there are that like play starter minutes for any other position. Because if you’re not a star effectively or at least a fringe star at center, you don’t play that much. You need two centers. Every team needs two center unless you have unless you have Jokic or you know that kind of level. Well, nobody’s that level him, but there are like very few teams that have a star level center. There’s probably six of them, seven of them, eight of them, however many there are. Not not more than 10, I promise you. And every other team in the league has more has to have more than one quality center. Joic, I mean, it’s been talked about, you know, this, which we just watched the Nuggets play tonight. His backup has been a talking point for years and years and years because they can’t afford to to put resources there, but they get destroyed when he’s off the floor. But they have to do that because he’s so good, right? And who’s going to want to play as his backup for eight minutes a game? But if you’re on Yaka Kongwu, as good as I think he actually is, he’s a good player. He’s not going to play 35 minutes a game. He’s going to be playing 29 minutes a game, 30 minutes a game. And that’s totally reasonable. But what it means is you need a backup center that’s like better than a normal backup center. Like you need a real second center. Like ideally, like it’s it’s the two years ago version of Click Capella. Not not now, not 25 version. I love you Clint. It’s probably over as far as like that prominent of a role for me, right? But like a real guy and that’s not easy to find. I mean, it’s also it’s easy and also not easy to find. That makes sense. It’s like you want a certain level of quality at that spot. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And and and and I and I I’ll say this quickly, but I think if if Hawks fans that only watch the Hawks and don’t don’t, you know, that don’t decide to get, you know, leak pass and don’t watch a lot like and we talked about this a little bit on on the pod, but teams are using their centers defensively differently the last few seasons, right? Um, you watch what Udoka does in Houston and what he did in Boston and you see it a lot of other places too. Miami converted basically pam to bam to a power forward this year, you know, in in a way. Um, but basically teams are not letting you send their centers up the floor when the when the offensive big goes up the screen. They’re sending Houston will send Dylan Brooks. They did that against the Hawks. We saw that. I can use that example, right? And that’s happening more and more and more. Like why do you want Zubot up the floor, right? you know, why do you, you know, um, and so the teams are scheming how they handle ball screens completely differently than they were two or three years ago. And what that means is for Enyak, now Enyak is a guy you want, he’s strong in space. He’s strong, you know, on the ball, uh, as well. But if you’re going to get Enyak up the floor, you need Mo, you need Jaylen, you need someone else like that, you know, to kind of be able to clean things up on the back line. And so, and they need more of of that. So I think Anyaka is functional. Um but it just depends. Do you want to swing more towards 135 switching? Do you want to swing more towards hedge hard hedging and getting the big to the levels like Andy Yaka is great in space. He’s really really really good in space. You better have threes and fours that can rebound, you know, when you get him off the floor. You know, you better have fours that can offer weak side protection once he’s up the floor. and that and like we said that you know unless you’re a top five guy at your position there’s always something that you’re lacking that has to be factored into what you build around that player. Yeah. I I just pulled the number I guess while we were here. There is uh there are there were seven centers this season that played 32 minutes a game or more. And 32 is a relatively modest number. For example, three guys on the Hawks averaged 34 minutes or more this year. Trey, Jaylen, Dyson. 32 minutes or more, seven guys. Uh, as I said before, they are basically all stars or French stars. They are the following players. Jokic, Towns, Sabonis, Bam, AD, WBY, and Zubat. Oh, and Rudy Gobear. I wasn’t counting WMY because he didn’t play, but if you include WMY, there’s eight. But if you want to pick a Rudy Goar, whatever. Zubat is a basically a star at this point. He was awesome this year. Awesome. All those guys are like have made all-star teams are paid like allstars. It’s not a coincidence. Like those are the teams that play their guys like play their star players that much that everybody else at center in the entire league is not playing that much. And minutes is only one area, but it’s a it’s a convenient way because like if you’re playing 30 minutes, that means you have 18 minutes a night that have to be covered by somebody else. And the numbers are what they are. They’re stark. basically between Ayaka playing with a what I would describe as a real defensive power forward which the Hawks basically had two of those guys this year Jaylen and Mo and if you look at the numbers they’re actually pretty darn good defensively with with those guys and if you if you play if you play Aneka with Terrence man at the four or David Rody at the four or George Niang yeah it’s worse what do you want me to do you you got you got to surround him with with size so yeah your point is a perfect one about him playing up the court but that’s one thing that gets ignored when there’s the focus focus on rim protection. I’m using giant quotation marks on people not watch the video and rebounding is that you it’s not a individual thing unless you’re Ruby go bear or wi you’re not a a rip protection entity by yourself. That’s not how the game works anymore. Yeah. Uh and and and teams are even teams are engineering their lineups and their defense to put more talent at the point of attack. So they don’t always I mean one way to get your center in foul trouble all the time is having them cleaning up everything at the rim the whole freaking game. Yep. you know, and I mean that that’s happens sometimes with towns like you know that happens you know that you know you want I mean we saw it not this past year so much but the prior year we saw teams just driving right down the paint right at Clint the whole season the 23 24 season you know and so teams are teams are like no we’ve got to contain the ball if we contain the ball we don’t have to expose our center to all of these rescue you know kind of scenarios at the rim all the time the whole game because you know you only get six fouls um and And the Hawks, you know, that’s one of the reasons the Hawks got Dyson. I think they and I think Reese Chase is going to be a great point of attack defender. You know, he’s already shows a lot of ability there. They need two more, you know, they, you know, two is not enough. If you want to you want to get the second round of the playoffs or whatever, you need more than that, right? Um, and um, so it’s just it’s interesting, but yeah, I mean, and and I hope this doesn’t sound condescending at all because it’s not intended to be, but if you’re not able to watch how the rest of the league is evolving, the way that they man use their centers defensively, um, you might not understand that Anaka can be completely functional at his size with the caveat that you and I agree with everyone that says needs more size, needs more weak side protection, secondary ear protection, all that sort of stuff on the board, too. Yep. And uh ideally we just talked about I mean I think I am of the mind that they do need a real investment either a draft capital or financial capital in a second center. Agreed. Like you you don’t you don’t go in with random minimum backup center next season I don’t believe. So that’ll be interesting to see what they navigate. So you know you and I talk for two hours. We’re not going to do that because uh I value your time on a Saturday night. But uh yeah I mean there’s plan to get to. I I I joked about it earlier, but hopefully I can twist your arm, do some some player deep dives. Be a lot of things. Um, you have no choice, Brad. I’m doing them with you. So, perfect. Uh, that’s my that’s that’s my pleasure. Uh, no, that that’ll be fun. If you’re a new listener, Glenn has been gracious enough the last couple summers to do come on with me to do what we call player capsules, which is basically like probably a way too long deep dive on every player on the roster essentially. Um, I believe, didn’t we do like I think it was like 45 minutes on Garrison Matthews or something like that last summer, some hilarious number. Um, we can we can we can talk about anything. I think you and I when it comes to basketball, but uh that that’s room for even more on obviously, but Trey, we’ll talk about Dyson, we’ll talk about Zack, we’ll talk about Jaylen, all those even but even the secondary guys like your Terrence Mans who was a controversial figure this year for example, Nang, controversial figure, Caris Levert, etc. So, we’ll get into all that when we have more time. Uh, and I do appreciate you uh joining me on a Saturday night. Uh, Glenn, we’ve talked about it already, but ATL29 exists. plug that extra podcast with with Kevin and Tyler. Anything anything else to uh share with people? Yeah, I think we’re trying to figure out when we’re gonna start talking about the draft soon. I think there we we we had the last episode we meant to talk about Dyson winning most approved player. We spent I think 37 minutes talking about the Pistons or something like that. That sounds right. Whatever. Um so so yeah, draft stuff around the corner. Also, you I’m posting about three draft profiles a week to my Patreon. You can find that in my uh bio on both Twitter and Blue Sky. That that’s out there, too. Um and you know, and you know, if you missed it, like Brad was gracious enough to come on with Laura, the the fabulous Laura and Gun. Oh, yeah. And do a playoff preview. Uh you know, we’re we’re starting off in round two tomorrow. Um, but that I, you know, I really enjoyed um, you know, Lauren has a fresh voice there that that I I the thing I love is like Hawks, I don’t think Hawks fans know who she is. And she’s really smart and really sharp. So, go find that one. Try to get her back on. Maybe maybe get the two of you back to preview the conference finals if that works. And uh, so yeah, ATL29, the Patreon. And then as I always want to shout out Wes and the guys that work at Peace Reviews, too. Support those guys. I’m I’m writing a little bit there again for the first time in a long time. It was fun to write the Terrence man player breakdown. Um sure got a few comments there. Um but yeah, yeah, support Wes and the group over there. And if you want to see, you know, a Patreon, go find that. And uh 1829. I’m not opening it up because I I have uh I used to live that life as the editor of Peach Hoops, but there are currently 249 comments on that piece. Uh, I’m terrified to know what they are, but you know, always mix reviews. But no, thank you for doing this. As I said to you offline, I’ll say to you online, I owe you like 150 favors. So, anything you ever need me to do on Patreon, I’m going to happily do it for you without any single question. So, uh, the the counter of owing things is way in way in the favor of me owing you things. So, we’re not we’re not we’re not uh, as for everybody else, yeah, please subscribe. Well, at some point they’re going to hire a president of math operations to bring things full circle. That’s gonna happen it seems like. Uh or they won’t. But they’ll do something. Uh and then combine next week. Literally, it’s I think it starts the 11th, the lottery is the 12th. Uh it the fun never stops. Like there’s a little bit of a lull here for the Hawks, but as soon as the lottery hits, you’re in draft mode basically all the way to the draft, which becomes trade season, which becomes free agency, which becomes summer league. I’m sure I’ll talk to you about whoever 10th guy they have in the summer league roster in July. That’s part of the fun. And uh yeah, our certly previews are like my favorite things to do. It’s so total sicko content, but it’s fun. Like Glenn, the uh the fourth wing on NC State this year. Can you take a look at that guy for me? Uh anyway, anyway, thank you Glenn. I appreciate it, my friend. As for please subscribe to this podcast. Check out 129. I I totally wholeheartedly endorse ATL29. Subscribe to that podcast as well. And we’ll see everybody next time.

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland) hosts Episode 1968 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Glen Willis of ATL and 29 for Part 2 of a 2-part conversation. The discussion continues with a look ahead to the offseason for the Atlanta Hawks, including Trae Young’s status, roster building decisions, and much more.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…
🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOHawks?sid=YouTube

Locked On NBA League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft, WNBA & More
🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnNBA

#AtlantaHawks #NBA #TraeYoung

Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!

Amazon Fire TV Stick 4k
Did you know your Fire TV is also an Xbox? Turn any TV into your gaming and entertainment hub with Fire TV Stick 4K devices — no console required. Head to Amazon.com/firetvlockedon to get started. Xbox Game Pass Ultimate subscription and compatible controller required.

Betterhelp
This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Your well-being is worth it. Visit BetterHelp.com/lockedonnba today to get 10% off your first month.

Upwork
Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. With Upwork, you can find specialized freelancers in marketing, development, design, and more—experts ready to help you take your business to the next level.

OpenPhone
Streamline and scale your customer communications with OpenPhone. Get 20% off your first 6 months at www.openphone.com/lockedonnba

Door Dash
Sign up for DashPass and when any player scores 50+ in a playoff game, DashPass members can grab a free 3PC Crispy Tenders Combo from Wingstop the next day, with a $20+ order and code WINGSTOP50. That’s DashPass: your door to more savings, more flavor, and more ways to win. Terms apply.

Valid only at participating Wingstop locations. Fees (including service fee), taxes, and gratuity still apply. Orders must have a minimum subtotal of $20, excluding taxes and fees. Offer valid on 4/15/25-6/22 /25 or while supplies last. Valid for one (1) promotional redemption per customer. DoubleDash promotions apply only to your DoubleDash add-on order, not your primary order. DoubleDash orders are not valid for the purchase of alcohol. No cash value. Non-transferable. Discount applies to subtotal only; does not apply to fees, taxes, and gratuity. Not valid for pickup. Limit one per person. Not valid for the purchase of alcohol. Fees, taxes, and gratuity still apply. Must have an active DashPass account. Use promo code WINGSTOP50 to redeem. See full terms and conditions at drd.sh/qnAXuU

Monarch Money
Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNBA at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.

Gametime
Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNBA for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.

FanDuel
Right now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.

FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)