EP. 517 – Exiting The Rebuild – Orlando Magic Podcast
Hey Magic fans, Jonathan here. Just wanted to jump on here for a quick second. When you saw this episode, you might notice, oh my gosh, this thing is almost two hours long. Yeah, we talked about a lot. Season is over. Uh there’s a lot to talk about from these exit interviews, but we’re taking the next week off. So, if you want to listen to all this content, it’s really evergreen. Nothing’s really going to change between now and the next few months even from a lot of the things that we talked about. So, feel free to take two days, 3 days, maybe a whole week to listen to the entire episode here. Uh but then Kevin, myself, we will be back ready for action, ready for the entire off seasonason. So once again, thank you all for a great season. We appreciate your support so much and yeah, enjoy the episode. This is the Sixman Show, an Orlando Magic podcast with your hosts Kevin Tucker and Jonathan Osborne covering all things Magic Basketball by fans for fans. Go Magic. What’s going on, Orlando Magic fans? You guys are back with the six-man show. Today is May 5th, 2025. Jonathan Osborne here as always, joined by my co-host, Kevin Tucker. Kevin Tucker, it’s been a while. No magic basketball. How are you doing, my friend? Happy Cinco de Mayo, first off, 5th of May. Uh, yeah, doing okay. Obviously, it’s been a a few days since the Magic season ended up in Boston on Tuesday, so we’ve had some time to decompress and reflect, and we’ll talk about all that, but yeah, doing pretty good. Trying to enjoy the NBA playoffs from a, you know, a third party perspective now since my team’s out. The Pacers about to beat the Cavs in game one. That’s pretty crazy. But yeah, I’m doing pretty good. How are you? I’m doing pretty well, man. I have been enjoying, you know, some of the other playoff offerings and to be able to sit back like I I turn the the Pacers Cavs game on earlier and anytime I put any kind of sporting event on, the girls are always, “Daddy, who do who do we want to win?” You know, and I just able to honestly say, “I don’t care, right?” Like that was not having that emotional stake uh at least for now is a nice little bit of a breather. You know, you and I say every season when things end that it’s kind of bittersweet, right? Like especially this year where the whole kind of last half or you know almost twothirds of the season were so tough. Yeah. And knowing that you most likely were not going to be able to advance past this first round series really regardless of who the opponent was and knowing that this season very much had a a pretty soon expiration date on it kind of sort of looking forward to the off seasonason and knowing where we can really do the work to improve this team and then the season ends and you’re sad that your team loses, but this is where you and I get to just like take a little bit of a break and like I’m okay that there’s not basketball that we have to live and die over right now. Ask me in two weeks and I’ll be ready for Magic Basketball to get started again. Well, you you said something. You said, you know, when they asked you who are you rooting for, you said you you don’t care for this game. What about What about tonight? Pacers. No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m saying what about tonight? Celtics, Knicks. Are you going to say you you don’t care or do you have a rooting interest in that one? Go New York. Go New York. Go. Oh, brother. Yeah, that’s the thing. Like, it’s the lesser of two evils for me. Like, I I don’t really tend to like New York sports. If I had to pick one, the Knicks are probably the most likable out of, you know, Yankees. No offense, but Giants. What’s wrong with the Giants? Well, I mean, they’ve got they’ve got a couple Super Bowl rings in the last, you know, 15 years, so it’s just Sure. Sure. But the Knicks, like, obviously, they haven’t won in a long time. But then you add the whole Celtics thing that we just went through. I am absolutely rooting for the Knicks for the next two weeks. I don’t I don’t think they can do it, but you never know. I’m going to be rooting for them, that’s for sure. Yeah. What about um do you you care about game seven, Golden State, Houston? Uh just for the simple fact that I picked Houston to win in five games, I I’d like to see Houston win. just so I feel a little more right. Uh but yeah, I was a big believer in Houston coming into the into the playoffs, so I would like to see Houston win. Yeah. And plus, I don’t like Draymond Green, so I don’t want him to win anything. So, whoever wins this moves on to play the Timberwolves, you know, one day we are not going to have like Steph Curry playoff performances anymore. So, if we get, you know, one or two more of those this year, hey, including tonight even, who knows? Like, I’m not really going to be mad about that. But yeah, I don’t want to see the Celtics win at all at other than that. Pretty much anybody I’ll be happy with at this point. The Celtics would still be my pick. I I still think they probably will get it done. But yeah, it it is kind of nice this time of year to say, you know what, whoever is everybody as long as everybody has fun, you know, everybody go have fun, nobody get hurt, both teams played hard. Yeah. You know, maybe maybe that’s the those were the friends that we made along the way, you know. Yeah. So, um, we’re going to save the like full season autopsy for a future episode. We have a very lengthy off season ahead of us. There’s going to be plenty of things to talk about between now and basically the end of September before we get to media day and then into training camp and preseason and all that kind of stuff. So, we are going to have a more and and I do think I haven’t fully processed the season yet, even though it it did end six days ago. But we, you know, had the exit interviews on Thursday and watching through all that a couple of times, you know, Thursday and Friday and the Jeff Welman interview on 969 the game with Mike Bianke and then the Anthony Parker interview with Brandon Kravitz on 969 the game. Like all of that I’ve just been kind of sitting on and and stewing on for the last few days. But Kevin, now we are I think six days removed from the Magic regular season. thoughts, feelings, what will you sort of reflect on in the future when you think about this season? Um, yeah, it’s tough. Like I I I think the way we lost game five kind of soured things a little bit for me. Like you just get absolutely blown apart in that second half, right? And that just yeah, like I said, just leaves a little bit of a sour taste after you fought really hard, especially in games 2, three, and four. You were right there. It was very close. Um, and even the first half of game, excuse me, game five was close. So, that kind of leaves a sour taste. But I I will say on the whole, this team was dealt a lot of adversity this year. The fact they were only six games worse than last year, I think is nothing short of a miracle and and deserves some credit. Um, but it it does feel like a lost season in some ways, right? Like this is a a another year of Apollo, of France, Jaylen, you know, the list goes on. You you’re only going to get a few of those. Like even if those guys spend their entire careers in Orlando, you only get, you know, two, three handfuls of them. And so to have one that feels like it totally lost, you know, because of injuries and circumstances, that’s a little bit of a bummer. But again, I’m encouraged by the the fight. Uh but at the same time, it’s also a a very clear indicator that some things need to change this summer, and I’m definitely looking forward to that. I’m going to be a little bit of a salty sailor here for a second, cuz I I’ve got to go back to game five. I would agree with you in the way that game five went down had I not felt that that third quarter was orchestrated like to the ump degree and and I know we’ve talked about the banero fouls but you go back to that third quarter the very first offensive possession for the Magic Paulo’s posting up Derek White Derek White is all over Paulo grabbing at his arm pulling him no call gets the ball turns around there’s contact but to me it looked like Derek White flop that’s a foul We go down to the other end. The first bump on Jaylen Brown. Foul. Magic. Go down to the other end. Paulo doesn’t really see the ball that much in that possession. There’s really no opportunity for there to be a whistle. So, there’s not a call. We go back down the other end. He’s not guarding the ball again. No real opportunity to blow the whistle. Very next defensive possession down is the Jaylen Brown elbow to the chin. That’s his third whistle. And I think like a minute and a half into or two and a half minutes rather into that third quarter and looking at the way that the Eastern Conference playoff bracket is breaking down, do I think potentially maybe there’s a slight chance that the NBA wanted the Celtics to get healthy for a good series against the Knicks? And then on the other side of the bracket is Cleveland and Indiana. Do they want to make sure that the Celtics are playing in the Eastern Conference Finals? I absolutely would not put that past Mr. Adam Silver. So, had that third quarter not gone down the way that it did and any chance that the Magic had at making that a competitive game because it was a competitive game up until that point, Tony Brothers completely evaporated that. So, had that not been the case, I probably would feel that way. And I know you’re potentially still going to disagree with that, but yes. Does it make it a little bit easier to sit here and say like, “Well, we got killed in game five.” Even if you win game five, you’re you’re not winning this series. So, it makes it a little bit easier for me to deal with and and kind of move on from this series pretty quickly because once we beat Atlanta and we kind of, you know, had the the series in hand that we were, you know, going to be playing in the playoffs against the Celtics and especially once we won game three and said, “Okay, at least we’re not getting swept.” At that point, everything was house money. the Magic didn’t really have anything to lose at that point. So, it has made it a little bit easier for me to move on emotionally from this season. The only thing I’ll say to that is, is it possible that is it possible in this scenario that the NBA wanted the Celtics to beat the Magic? Sure, of course. Is it possible that the NBA actually wanted the Celtics to beat the Knicks? That feels very far-fetched. like the New York Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals. You know how crazy the NBA would go for they think though has a better chance of actually making it to the finals. They’re playing the long game here even if the the Knicks find a way to beat the Celtics. Are they going to be able to beat Cleveland? I I really don’t think so. Well, right now Cleveland can’t beat Indiana, so they should focus on that. The NBA needs to step in if they’re concerned about that. But um I don’t know. the the Midwest championship, you know, the Midwest Conference or whatever is that feels very farfetched, but but I I would agree some tough calls, but at the end of the day, I mean, was it what was it doing? Prolonging the series by a game, you know, maybe two like there’s no way for Tony Brothers. Yeah, that will never brothers never convince me otherwise. But uh yeah, for me it it just it’s going to go down as a loss season other than sort of the the grit and resolve that this team showed the last two months of the season and then into the playoffs. And we came away from that series knowing that like, hey, we’ve got, you know, without a doubt, if you don’t count Jaylen and and Mo, like we know that those guys are going to rise to the occasion when it comes to the playoffs. And we really already knew about Fron and Paulo, but this cemented it like not only can those guys be really good in the the playoffs, but those guys can be I think they were two of the best three players in that series, you know? Yeah, Paulo and and Tatum are probably right there. You can really argue either way. And then I think Fron’s outplayed Jaylen Brown in that series. So, two out of the three best players you could argue one and three in a series against the defending champs and, you know, at this point the favorites to go on and repeat. I’m really happy about that. And then we saw other guys show that they were mostly ready for the moment. you know, guys like Wendell, Anthony Black, and then we have kind of a a lot of question marks on this roster, obviously, which I know again we have a ton of time to talk about between now and September. But yes, what is going to be the most painful part of this season is looking back and saying, “What if Paulo and Fron don’t tear their obliques? And then what if Jaylen doesn’t get hurt?” And you’re never going to have a season that’s completely injuryfree. But if those guys are able to stay reasonably healthy and then healthy going into the playoffs, it’s just a it’s just a different ballgame, right? Like I I think we’re probably playing Cleveland right now in the second round. You know, it ended up the the four seed. Maybe you’re the Knicks playing the Celtics in the second round and then we can argue all day about how things would go in the second round. You would have a really good chance at winning either of those series. like we’d be saying this second round series against Cleveland or against New York or Boston should go six or seven games and the Magic will have a chance to win the series and because of injury luck and for really no other reason than that we didn’t get to see that this year and I hadn’t even looked at it from the angle that you’re talking about where hey if we get 12 really good Paulo and Fron’s years couple of them well one we lost to the team just being bad like Paulo’s rookie season and then we had a really really fun season two with Paulo. Then the third season was we were just completely robbed of by injuries and and that sucks. And I know the next thing we’re going to go into is a lot of the like exit interviews which there were definitely some themes just like there are every year like last year it was we made the playoffs and next year we need to have homec court advantage. we learned how important it is to have homec court advantage in the playoffs and this year really the the main takeaway was that basically the team didn’t give up and they stuck together and all that kind of stuff but it was it was a tough season when Jamal Mosley says it felt like it was four or five seasons in one. It really did feel like that. The fact that one it’s already been 6 months like since we were there at opening night and now it is well opening night but even before that the first game of the year against the Heat. To think it’s already been almost 7 months now since then and at the same time that it’s only been 7 months since then are both equally kind of crazy to think about. Yeah, it’s it’s true. And the only other thing like you know I guess with um uh well like the exit interviews and stuff you know which we’ll talk about but yeah I mean the the theme was like you said the grit the determination the all those things and but it’s also a reminder that those things only get you so far you know and there are some other things that are required in order to see success in the playoffs. And so, um, again, going back to just I guess silver lining, going back to that game five ending, the fact that the gap statistically between the shooting the shooting numbers between the two teams was so wide, you know, there was there was a fear coming into the playoffs that, you know, if the Magic, you know, have put on a good showing, then maybe maybe the front office that they’ll be they won’t be so quick to make changes because, oh, if we’re healthy, we’ll be Nah, that’s just not a thing. And so, fortunately, in some of the stuff we heard on the exit interviews from the front office and such, it sounds like those there will be some moves this offseason for sure. Listen, there there is one line, and maybe we won’t go all the way into it right now because I know we’re going to talk about the exit interviews and some of the radio interviews next, but there is a line that was brought up by Welman, was brought up by Anthony Parker where I go, okay, this is most likely them being able to hold on to some leverage and negotiations going into the off season, but if they are like really bought into this one statistic that got brought up, makes me go, Uh, I I really don’t like that. And when we get to that, maybe I’ll I’ll bring that up and and go into a little bit further detail, but it does seem like looking like if if we’re all in a room like trying to come to a consensus like, hey, everybody kind of agrees what needs to happen here, right? Like it it does feel like everybody’s on the same page. The front office, a lot of the players, some of them when they were asked about, hey, like what does this win now mean? they got a little bit like, uh, I I don’t really know exactly how I feel about this kind of stuff. And we’ll break that down as well. But it feels like everybody kind of knows that the offense has to get better. This team needs to make the next step. And I’m hoping that when we take a look back at this season, four years, 5 years from now, we can look back and say, “Hey, that season sucked, but it was the necessary evil to force this team into the next stage, and that’s what led to all these amazing other things happening. And that’s really and ultimately what I’m hoping we’re able to take away from from this season. But that’s something that we’re not going to know for quite a while still. So for now, we’re kind of just crossing our fingers and hoping and praying that all of this stuff works out because it’s hard to get to this point where you do have a really promising core. I think it’s even harder to take that core from like, hey, we’re pretty good to contending level and making sure that you get it right because you have to get everything right in a given year and everything has to go right in a given year for you to be able to get it done like win a title and ultimately that’s what we all want. Sure, we want to say, hey, the Magic in, you know, the 2020s or the the later part of the 2020s, like we’re true contenders for four or five years, like going into the early 2030s. But if we say, “Ah, but they they got close, but they never got it done.” Or, “Look, that was when they f they only got one maybe.” But listen, if you fast forward 50 years from now and I’m on my deathbed and I say, “Just tell me they won one.” And you say yes, I can die peacefully. That’s right. And if not, then I’ll find a way to haunt you all for the rest of I however long I can. Yeah. I mean, look at Milwaukee right now, right? Look, Milwaukee obviously draft Giannis, they go all in to surround him with great talent. They get that title. It’s falling apart since then, right? Like I mean obviously right now this summer is I mean maybe the biggest question marks in the league right now are in Milwaukee. But you ask any Milwaukee fan, are they going to say it was worth it to get that one, their first one in, you know, 50 years or whatever it was? I bet all of them say yes. In spite of all the the controversy and the drama and the health issues now and all those things, I would bet that every single one of them say it was all worth it because they got their title. And so, yeah, sign me up if that’s what it takes. Sign me up. There’s probably nothing like basketball wise and like, you know, things that are very reasonable and don’t include anything crazy. There’s almost nothing that I wouldn’t sacrifice to win a title. Like I if I don’t want to talk about our present guys, I don’t want to jinx anything. But if we could go back and be like, “Hey, Dwight still ends up leaving, but you win a title. Would you rather him stay forever when I’m taking the title every single time?” Like, “Hey, I already dealt with the pain of him leaving anyway, right?” So like, yeah, I would I would rather have the the title kind of over everything. So yeah, let’s go ahead and pivot into the exit interviews. And I think really where we should start and kind of I guess it makes the most sense even like chronologically would be go back to Jeff Welman’s interview on open mic with Mike Bianke on 969 the game on Thursday morning like ahead of the exit interviews. I think that was at like 8 in the morning and then the exit interview started like around 10. Um, first of all, credit to Mike Bianke. Did a a great job. Like really short of asking about like getting squeezed at the deadline and all that kind of stuff, which was asked later on, Jason Bey did a great job during the exit interviews. But short of that, that was really the only thing maybe that he didn’t ask that I really wanted him to hear. Um, one of the biggest things was at the trade deadline, like would he change his mind? like if he could go back and sort of redo the trade deadline over. And what he said, and a lot of things here were paraphrasing, but he said that they felt the price tag was a little bit too heavy in their discussions for what they were effectively looking for was expiring contracts and that ultimately he was happy that the team landed on a way to play towards the end of the season. And that’s something that was also echoed uh that w that was today, I believe. When was the Brandon Kravitz interview with Anthony Parker? Either Friday or Saturday. Was that Friday? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Probably it probably would have been Friday. I think you’re right. And he said like effectively they were looking at expiring contracts, which tells me that what they were most likely looking to do was get underneath the apron potentially so they had a little bit more flexibility this summer. And when it like they it sounds like they were only looking for guys who were expiring. and he said they were it really would have been a rental for them. They’re not giving up Anthony Black or even Jet Howard or anything significant when they know that this is really like a salary dump move for us and this guy isn’t going to be here in in in two months. So if we need to give up anything that we feel is significant like if it was something I don’t even know if Gary Harris makes sense because he’s in expiring as well. But if it was just anything of value they were not going to move that. And it’s it is interesting that that was kind of or seems to be the philosophy for them going into the trade deadline like hey let’s trade for an expiring contract. It’s like, well, what if you can get a guy who can contribute and be really impactful for this team that’s on a multi-year deal and you can kind of lock them up and have a little bit more security there. I found that interesting, but what did you think of that and maybe some other things that you took from that interview? Yeah. Well, I I found it interesting that he at least admitted to like, yeah, I’ve I’ve asked myself that question talking about, you know, whether he would have made a trade on, you know, at the deadline. I’ve asked myself that same question many times. I think he said something like that. So that that was that was pretty open and honest of him to say that, you know, um cuz he could have very easily said, you know, no, I don’t look back on the past, you know, we love the team we have, you know, whatever whatever oneliner you want to throw in there. But to me, like the biggest takeaway from that conversation was that was the first t the first time in the Welman era that I can think of where I heard those two words, win now, come out of his mouth. Like that was a big big deal to me to hear him say those things to Mike Bianke in a positive light. Yes. Right. Right. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And it it definitely like that that’s a head turning phrase to hear him say that was like whoa. And then to hear him address like I I feel like so often, not just Jeff Welman, but general managers, front office guys, they don’t want to talk about what the team doesn’t have or what the team needs for fear of making it sound like who they have now is not good enough, right? Like you don’t want to say things that can jeopardize the locker room or the chemistry or make it sound like you’re putting down the team that you do have. Not to say that Jeff Welton was putting down who we have, but he was pretty clear that what we what we’re doing offensively is not good enough, right? And so to hear him say that again, I was just like, “Oh my goodness.” Like Jeff Welman is not, again, he’s not being totally candid. You know, he’s never going to do that. But it was some of the most um unfiltered, not fully unfiltered, but slightly unfiltered stuff I’d ever heard from Jeff Waltman. And so that was pretty wild. But yeah, to hear him say win now. Wow. Yeah, that that was definitely uh definitely got my attention. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. This is the most like open version of of Jeff Welman that we’ve got for sure in one of these interviews. And I I do think he and Mike Bianke have a good rapport and he he seems to open up more to Mike than he does some other outlets. And that’s a credit to Mike for sure. Uh, but yeah, some of the quotes that I took from that were like turning page on the rebuild and looking through a win now lens, which he’s mentioned like win now before, but usually like in a negative kind of sense, like we’re not going to mortgage our future in order to win now. That’s how he’s mentioned it in the past, but this is like, hey, like no, it it’s go time. And he even said it’s time to put our foot on the gas and go. Nothing can be off the table for us. Now, I don’t know about nothing. There’s a couple of guys that were five and 22 that I think everybody would assume are off the table and there’s, you know, maybe two or three other guys that I would hope are off the table in discussions. And he also mentioned if we’re going to get better offensively, it will come with some cost. talking about the defense and honestly as much as I do like that my team’s strength is more like if you have to pick one like I’m all for going in on defense and if your offense is just good enough I I think that’s kind of where I lean rather than the other way. How many really good offensive teams have we seen get blown out of the playoffs because they can’t defend. So, I would much rather build the way that this team has built, but even he is acknowledging that, hey, like we are going to have to get a little bit worse defensively to be able to add the offense, but you’re second in the league in defensive efficiency. Like, you have a good amount of wiggle room there that you can stand to sacrifice that to get better on the other side of the ball. And then the last thing that I had was the quote that he said that we’re going to have to quote unquote swap rather than add end quote. And that’s really speaking to the financial and and transactional status of where the team is right now because they’re in the apron. The Magic cannot, you might not know this if you’re listening, but the Magic actually cannot go out and significant players through free agency. They’re going to have things like the veteran minimum and, you know, the full mid-level exception, those kind of things that they can utilize to bring in free agents, but they can’t go out and pay a guy, let’s say Trey Young was a free agent. The Magic cannot like legally they cannot go out and pay Trey Young $40 million a year. They they it’s just not permissible underneath this current collective bargaining agreement. So if you’re one of those people saying the Magic don’t spend money, the Magic don’t do this, the Magic don’t do that. The Magic are actually spending as much money as they are legally able to underneath the NBA and NBA Players Association collective bargaining agreement right now. So they are going to have to make for trade. They are going to have to make these moves through trades rather than adding guys through the free agency pool. Yeah, exactly. And that’s it limits like who’s available, you know, like when you talk about those numbers like those are hard cap numbers that are are set amounts basically, right? You know, with the the MLE mid-level exception or the veterans minimum, those kinds of things. So it definitely limits who you have or who’s available to you. But again, that’s the that’s the thing that’s surprising to which, by the way, if if you follow the NBA and you know the financial stuff, you understand that. But that’s what makes that comment from Welman so surprising. He’s never even hinted at the idea of a suggestion of trading guys that are currently on the roster. He’s never even come close to that. So to hear him say those things like, “Yeah, it’s it’s going to come at a a cost of us swapping guys,” again, I just couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that he was saying those things. And honestly, again, cuz like many Magic fans, I feel like this roster needs some help. I was encouraged honestly to hear him say those things. And so glad to know that that’s that’s in their sights at least for this summer. And I would agree. I think both of us would agree with many Magic fans and other critics that it was unfortunate that the Magic didn’t make any moves at the deadline. But to those who get frustrated with the team or the front office and say they don’t care what we want, they don’t listen to us. They don’t know what Magic fans want. If you think that there wasn’t an element of this that was made possible from them seeing the level of frustration from fans at the trade deadline, I would probably tend to disagree with that. But again, I thought Mike did a great job with Jeff and I appreciate Jeff being so forthcoming in that interview. And then he went from that and I guess we can jump into the exit interviews that were at the Advent Health Training Center with the rest of the Orlando media there. Um, and we’ll kind of go right back to Jeff Welman. Always start with him. So, we’ll kind of go right back there. Um, some of I have like four like really big points that I had from the Jeff Welman availability there. He said one, they’re looking to bring in proven offensive talent. So, not a guy who might have the potential to be really good or they’ve scouted and maybe he’ll be better in a a bigger role. Like, they don’t want to take risks. They know what they need to do. They want to go out and get a guy that they know can do it and has done it in the past. But they want to make these moves without completely unraveling our DNA, which tells me people that are saying, “Oh, we need to trade for this guy. We need to trade for that guy.” Trading for a guy like Trey Young, for example, who at this point you’re not being able to get a guy like that without trading like a Fran Varnner or a Jaylen Suggs, like it would take one of those two guys, I’m pretty confident, to make a move like that. And for me, trading that much defense for offense and losing that much defense to get that offense is not what they’re looking for. It would just alter what this team does too much. And I’m actually a fan of that. Whether it’s Trey Young or if it’s I mean, let’s not be silly. If it was Luca Donuch, it would be a different conversation. But if you’re going out and getting one of these guys who is a complete turn style defensively, it’s not really what this team is is looking for. But Kevin, we just mentioned the the squeeze quote because he was asked by Jason Bey. He said, you know, you had mentioned at the trade deadline that you felt like teams were going to squeeze you. He’s like, would you kind of change your mind? And Jeff, he did backpedal on that quote just a little bit. And he said, maybe I misspoke. And he said, everybody squeezes everybody. Which to our credit was our point at the trade deadline when he said that. And maybe he did misspeak or maybe that’s not really what he meant to say. or maybe listen to the show and you know I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I don’t know about that. But our point was yeah, no duh. That’s kind of the point. Like you’re trying to get the best value that you can in trades. So that was uh pretty interesting. And then the last thing that I had is he said, “I hope we did the right thing talking about the deadline.” And you brought it up. There is that little bit of doubt that has crept into their mind that hey, maybe it wasn’t the right move. But you could look at that two different ways of like this guy all of a sudden now isn’t sure of what he’s doing or he’s human and can realize maybe when he’s made a mistake or hasn’t done everything perfect and is willing to adapt and change his mind about things which to me I appreciate. So um to me those were like the biggest quotes from that. Everything else like we essentially already got from the Bianke interview. Yeah. Yeah I definitely think so. But yeah, like you said, it’s pretty rare to hear any I not just basketball, but in life, you got get people who are in positions of authority and leadership and quote unquote power within whatever organization or company. Like it’s very rare to hear them express fullon like remorse or um regret for something. And not that we got that from Jeff Welman, but he at least didn’t just shut it down. you know, he was at least open to the idea that yeah, maybe we should have uh made a deal. But again, regardless, I I think it does not making a deal, if there’s a silver lining, once again, opened up the possibilities of what this team could do. And when we saw what this team could or could not do, it just confirms what has to be done this summer. And so, if there’s a silver lining, I think there’s that. All right, Jonathan, it’s bittersweet time. It’s time for our final jam hot chicken jam of the week for the 2024-25 season. And this one is not really a jam of the week, but a jam of the series. Just like last year, we decided to take the whole playoff series and find the best jam that we thought was the best jam for the 2024 25 uh first round against the Boston Celtics. And for us, it was unanimous. Two votes to game two. Uh second quarter about 940 to go in this one. It’s Paulo Bancero gets the inbounds pass from Gary Harris has Drew Holiday backs him down turns to his right and throws it down with two hands on Christos Porzingis. Christo Porzingis is like 7 foot3 or something like that. He’s huge and Pala didn’t care. Just dunked right on him. It was great. Unfortunately, that was in a loss. So, we’ll take that L, I guess. But Pal gets the W for that dunk. It was a lot of fun. Also a lot of fun is visiting our friends at Jam Hot Chicken who are proudly serving the city beautiful bringing jams culture and hot chicken to the heart of Winter Park. You can find them at 400 West New England Avenue Sweet13 in Hannibal Square. You can also find them online on social media, jamhot chicken and also jamhotchickenfl.com where you can check out their menu and all things JamHot. We’re big fans of Jamhot because they’re big fans of the Orlando Magic and of our awesome Orlando Magic fan community. And so again, whenever you’re in Winter Park and you’re hungry, go check them out and definitely let them know that The Sixman Show sent you. This episode is also brought to you by Can Dugan, Dak Lopez, Chansu, Austin Vote, Duval, Paulie, and RMR 221 221. These are some of our Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons. Folks who help support the Sixman show all season long. Some of those for years now, helping us do everything that we do. We literally couldn’t afford to keep the lights on and and really do all the things that we do without the support of our patrons. And we give special shout outs to brand new patrons whenever we have them. That’s K Dugan. Ken Dugan recently joined the Patreon. So, welcome first of all and thank you so much for your support. So whether you just found us the last few weeks as you’re listening to our playoff coverage or you’ve been listening to the show for a little bit or a long time even if you want to help support what we do and the more support that we have we’re able to do even more magic coverage right like Kevin I we’re we’re not shy about the fact that it’s our dream to be able to do this full-time. If we were able to do this full-time, maybe we could have been at the exit interviews asking questions that Magic fans want to hear. And we’d be able to cover more games and get questions asked and answered throughout the year of things that Magic fans want to do and overall just do an even better job of covering this team and bringing you all more Magic content. If you’re like myself, you’re like Kevin, a few years ago before we started the pod, we didn’t have many friends or Magic fans to talk to about the Orlando Magic. And due to in large part the support of our patrons, we’re able to share that now with thousands of Magic fans across the globe. And we don’t want to reveal too much, but we’re actually working on something this summer to help literally bring Magic fans together all across the globe. So, be on the lookout for that. But hey, if you like what we’re doing or maybe you just I don’t know, you’re listening to this randomly and you want to be a good Samaritan and and pass some goodwill along, you want to help support our show, head on over to patreon.com/the6man show, you can help support us for as little as $2 a month. That’s like half of a half of like a McDonald’s fourpiece nugget these days. Shout out to the economy. But doesn’t cost much to help support us do what we’re doing. And hey, if everybody that listened to our show gave $2 a month, like we probably could be pretty close to doing this full-time. So, uh, but hey, even if you don’t want to, we appreciate you listening. We appreciate your support all season long. Again, you want to jump over to Patreon, help support the boys, head on over to patreon.com/the6man show. Every little bit helps. Whether you’re Hall of Fame, rookie, elite tier, allstar, whatever it is, we appreciate everybody so much for the support again all year long. And now that’s enough for me. Why do you say we uh get back to the episode? Next, we’ll we’ll talk about Jamal Mosley for a minute here. One thing that I think is like an underrated skill of Jamal that maybe he’s learned quite a bit from Jeff Welman is sometimes his ability to talk a lot and not say much and I feel like that is really by design. Doesn’t want to show his cards. But when asked about, you know, what are your big takeaways from the season? Again, Jamal Mosley and everybody shared the sentiment that like the team didn’t give up. They stuck together. they finish the season strong. But the biggest thing for me in the the questions from Jamal Mosley and I I do forget who asked the question, but essentially would he look to bring in someone to the coaching staff to maybe help with the offense? And when they he said like in terms of like moving to a win now type of lens, we’re going to leave no stone unturned. So the fact that he can’t just come out and say yes, the coaching staff that I have is not good enough, we need to bring somebody else in. He’s not going to say that, but the fact that he seems open to that is really encouraging because like since the loss of Nate Tibbitz last season, you know, to the WNBA, a lot of Magic fans have been asking like, hey, like you need to bring in a more like offensive-minded like, you know, lead assistant or very experienced assistant to add to the coaching staff. And I I do think that that is one of the things that we probably do need to do this year or I know there are some, you know, brighter, younger minds that are maybe towards the end of the bench or or behind the bench, giving them more of an opportunity and giving them more responsibility. like whichever way that can come, whether it’s internal growth and internal promotion that way or bringing somebody else in, I do want to see more complexity and some, you know, better results for things like after timeouts and, you know, side out of bounds and all those kind of things, uh, next year and just more organization in general offensively and and just more variety. So hopefully we we get to see that in in one way or another. Was there anything else that you had from from Jamal? Yeah, I had one other thing from Mosley when I can’t remember who asked this question. It might have been Mason who brought up what Jeff Welman said which I I didn’t I completely forgot to do this. Mason no longer with SI just really sucks. I just want to throw that out there. Wish him the best. He came on our show was awesome in the handful of times we got to meet him this year. absolutely did a home run of a job all season long for Magic fans and for SI. And unfortunately, we don’t know the specifics on what happened over there, but you know, those parties are no longer uh working together, at least covering the Magic. And um yeah, totally 100% sucks. It’s an L big time. Um you know, a recent name for us. Yeah, we didn’t bring this up at the beginning of the show and that’s 100% on us. Fison, we didn’t he and he’s he’s going to listen to this. He’s going to get to this point be like, I can’t believe these idiots haven’t touched on this at all just yet. But Fison, if you guys follow us on social media, if you’re on, you know, Magic Twitter especially, or you read our articles, Fison has been covering the magic for us for almost three and a half years now, I believe it is. Um, and he is a graduate from the University of North Texas and has been on staff there as, I believe, a video analyst and coordinator for them. Um, and he’s done a great job for us, great job covering the Magic. And he’s decided that he just needs to focus on, you know, his real actual basketball job moving forward. So, he won’t be covering the Magic for us any longer, which is sad for us. But Kevin and I have had the conversation for like the last two and a half years that we know eventually this day was going to come when Fison was like, “Hey, I don’t really need to do this anymore.” Because he’s wanted to pursue a career in basketball. So, really sucks for us, really sucks for Magic fans, but we’re just really thankful and appreciative of Fison and everything that he did. And um just was on top of everything, covering the Magic. If there was an interview or a podcast or an article or anything, he was always on top of it, aggregating his butt off for sure. Um but yeah, just wanted to say a couple of quick words about Mason and our guy Fison who totally on me. forgot to bring that up at the top of the pod, but he’ll be missed and he’ll obviously still keep in touch, but I’m going to miss everything that he did for us for sure. Yeah, works very, very hard. One of the hardest working guys, you know, we’ve been around. So, shout out to Vison. Um, but yeah, he’s also going to be on an NBA bench someday. Not as a player as a coach, like 100%. So, that’ll be fun. Definitely not as a player. Cannot play ball a lick. But we’ll definitely I I will be shocked if he never ends up on an NBA bench somewhere. He’s that that good. Okay. Uh we were talking about Mosley. Mosley, right? Okay. That’s what I was saying. I think it was Mason who mentioned this. He brought up Jeff Welman saying potentially swapping some defense to upgrade the offense. And before he could even finish the question, again, I I could be wrong. I’m pretty sure it was Mason, though. No, you’re I I don’t know about who, but Yeah. Yeah. But before he could finish the question, he he you know, he said, “Waltman’s talked about blah blah blah blah.” How do you feel about And before he could even say the end of the sentence, Jamal just said, “Yes.” Yes. Like again, whoa. Like that’s again more more candid. Yeah. Very telling. Get these guys the heck out of here. They Yeah. Get me some offense. Nobody can shoot the ball. Uh but yeah, that was pretty wild. So, that was the only other thing I took from that. But, uh, yeah, pretty much uh, everybody just wants offense. That’s what we want. Like, I can and and because I’m going to use this guy as an example cuz I think he would have like the most animated reaction to that. I can picture Cole Anthony sitting in the locker room after the exit interviews watching that and hearing that be like, “Damn, Mo, for real like that?” Like, yep. Uh, yeah. That that was probably the single funniest moment of the entire exit interviews is like, “Oh, you want to bring in some more?” He’s like, “Yes, absolutely.” Yes. Yes. 100 times. Yes. Yeah. That was really good. Okay, let’s move on to probably my single most favorite moment in the exit interviews. We’ll talk about Palibano. um and just kind of talking about his time in Orlando and you know kind of alluding to his extension that’s coming up. His quote was, “I love it here. Couldn’t be more happy to be part of the Orlando Magic. So I look forward to spending a lot more years here.” And an entire fan base just took a long collective sigh of relief. Yeah. You don’t say something like that if you’re not looking to agree to a maximum extension the second that the NBA finals have concluded. So for all the oh my gosh is he going to leave all this trauma that we have and we’re so scarred and we need to build around this guy. I can’t believe we didn’t do anything at the deadline. He’s not going to sign the extension. I think we can all confidently sleep well tonight knowing that that is not going to be an issue at least this summer. Yes, but again, you talk about trauma. I’m not sleeping until there is pen to paper, brother. No, abs freakingutely not. No, I mean, honestly, obviously, he’s going to sign it, you know, just to get the money at the very least. You know, it’s 2025 players sign contracts and then they ask to be traded, but no, just kidding. I It’s not on my radar at all. But, you know, it will be very nice to see that Sham’s tweet, you know, the day after the finals ends that Pal has agreed to a max extension or whatever. So, that’ll be fun. Uh, but yeah, it is it is always nice to hear those words, you know. Um, and yeah, obviously we agree with you, Pal. We hope you’re here for many, many, many, many years to come. I think the exact question was like, what what is your connection to the city of Orlando? and he started talking about how his first two years he lived downtown and he never really left downtown. Um, but now I’m assuming he’s moved out to one of the more affluent areas in Wind. Have you seen his house? Something like that. I have Well, I don’t I don’t know like suburban Orlando that well, so I can’t speak to exactly what pocket of Orlando he’s moved to. I’m sure there’s people that that know that. I just I’m not privy to that type of information. Um, but now that he’s moved out to a beautiful house and more like I’m sure a style of living that he’s more accustomed to and that just kind of seems to be the theme with everybody. Like you spend a few years here in Orlando, then you buy a house here and you’re here for the rest of your life. That’s just kind of the way that it goes. And he mentioned that he loves the city. He loves spending time here. His family loves spending time here. So I finished that video and you know what I said? Bring back the Sonics. I don’t even care. Like, bring him back. He’s not going anywhere. Now, that could this could age very poorly in in the future, right? But like him saying, “I want to spend a lot more years here.” Put a freaking team around him. Keep this team competitive for the next 12 years, and he won’t go anywhere and we don’t have anything to worry about. So, just everybody do your freaking job and everything will be totally 100% completely fine. I hope so. Yeah, another quote when they were talking about, you know, kind of the playoff series and just kind of the way that the Magic have evolved, this was a a bar. He said, “We aren’t trying to be the Celtics. We’re trying to be the Magic and the best version of our team.” Yeah. Which I love. Like, hey, we’re not trying to recreate what they’re doing. Like, I’m not Jason Tatum. I’m Paulo Bancero. Fron isn’t Jaylen Brown. He’s Fran Vagner. And we’re going to do things our own way and kind of, you know, pave our own path. And that was really dope. And then last, you know, he he said that he was excited to hear about the team wanting to win now. And all the players when they were asked about that, they said, “Well, as players, like we always want to win now.” But hearing that that’s the whole organizational shift in mindset towards win now. That’s what Paulo Beno has been waiting for. He he’s shown since day one that he’s ready to win now. But unfortunately, all the things that this organization has had invested in other players and other draft capital, they’ve had to be a bit more patient than they probably would have liked. I’m sure once they got Paulo, if it was feasible to just go right into win now, they would have loved that. But it has really just very recently revealed itself in the past 6 months or so, what is 100% necessary and what we do have and what we don’t have. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, to to hear him say that and again it it was very you said this earlier. It was very interesting when that when now question was brought up certain echelon of players got different reactions, right? Like the upper echelon the the Paulo the like Pal’s reaction was like bro bring it on let’s go. Right. Not not exact between the lines. Can you ask the question again? Right. Yeah. Gwendelle was like he he did not look super thrilled to to be talking about. I could just be totally reading too much into it and it could be very much on me, but that’s what I got from it. They’re like, “Oh, you ready to win now?” And he’s they’re like he’s like, “What does that look like?” He’s like, “Can you ask that question again?” And then he kind of just he’s like, “Well, win now means winning games.” It’s like, “Well, duh.” I don’t I don’t think he fully understood that he was asking about a that that Jeff Welman had said that. I I I think there was a little bit of misunderstanding there. But yes, regardless, Paulo obviously knows he’s not included in any kind of swaps or whatever. He’s like, “Yeah, let’s go. Give me some give me some of these guys out of here.” You know? Yeah. I don’t know about that. But anyway, that was that was pretty fun. And yeah, it definitely it felt like his eyes lit up a little bit when that question was asked. Yeah. Uh, anything else before we move on to Fron? Let’s go to Fron. Okay. Every guy was asked. Uh, Philip Brosman, Reich, asked a lot of the guys if they thought that at some point the shooting struggles became mental and and Bronze said that he absolutely agreed with that. Um, which we kind of all know with with Fron, like we talked about this a couple episodes ago where in shootarounds and practice the shooting motion looks really fluid and then in games the hitch gets very much exaggerated with really can only be a mental thing at this point. So, no surprise there. But to me, the the probably the biggest thing that I took away from the Fron VAR availability was he’s unsure or undecided at this point in whether or not he’ll play Euro Basket this year. Euro Basket, you know, being I think like towards the end of the summer, like August, Septemberish kind of range. the fact that he’s non-committal at this point. As much as I love watching Germany and love watching them compete, one, he probably realizes that their odds are going to be a little bit tougher this go around. No, Mo, obviously, he’ll still be recovering from the ACL at that point. But I want so badly for Fron, at least for this summer, to prioritize the Magic over the German national team and prioritize his commitment to the Magic over his commitment to the national team and just be get healthy and work on his individual game and his own skills for the entire summer. To me that outside of guys getting healthy in like a massive trade, that would probably be the third biggest thing that could happen for the Magic this off seasonason is Fron Vagner making 500 threes a day for the next 6 months and coming back and at least being a league average three-point shooter. I heard that and I I genuinely could not believe that he’s even considering not playing for Germany in Euro Basket. But at this point, like they’ve well, I guess they got the bronze at the last Euro Basket and then won the Feeble World Cup. Like he’s already got a gold medal. He’s going to have a lot of Euro baskets, a lot of World Cups, a lot of Olympics to play in. You’re you’re going you have a very finite window when it comes to the NBA. And I would just love for him to say, you know, just this summer, like next summer, I don’t are they playing the World Cup next summer? I think there’s a year that they won’t be playing international competition, but like just one summer say, you know what, it I’m all about getting better for the Magic this off season. I would really welcome that. Yeah. Um first off, Eurobasket is August 27th through September 14th. So, you’re right. It’s like that gets which by the way, they always have warm-up games and stuff before that. So, you’re talking early August all the way through midepptember. And then you turn right around and boom, you’re in media day. you’re in uh training camp, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, you got you got three weeks off. Exactly. Yeah. And so, um I I know he said it. That’s another thing. I’ll believe it when I see it, man. Like, totally fair. When that when that time comes, like I I still expect him to play for Germany. I would be very surprised if he didn’t. Not just like some people may say, “Oh, Mo’s not playing. Maybe he won’t want to play.” That might be even even more of a reason for him to want to play because he knows his country really is going to need some help. um and he might try to bring that. So, I would be surprised. It would like you as a Magic fan, I would welcome it. I think it’d be great. Um but I would I would be very very surprised if that happens. But yeah, that’s uh yeah, I would argue out of the three kind of international cycles, that’s probably the least important, you know, Euro Basket World Cup. So, there was one to miss, it’ll be that one. and France figures out the three-point shot longterm, that also changes the long-term outlook for the German national team. If he starts, you know, with the closer three-point line in the international competition, he starts shooting 38 40% from three in those inter international competitions and they have Mo and if they’re able to get a guy like Hartinstein and add Tristan to Silva, like Germany is going to be really good for a long time. So, and also there’s going to be turnover like um uh what’s his name? Uh Gordon Herbert, was he the the n he’s not coaching the German national team. So, there’s going to be a lot of turnover there. So, who knows? I will be surprised if he doesn’t play, but like last year, like previous years, there’s been even no mention or possibility that he wouldn’t. That’s right. So, just the fact that he’s considering I think is is pretty big. Yeah. And then the last I mean not really a big point but something that I found funny was uh they were talking about Paulo’s negotiations and you know he’s mentioned how much he’s happy to play alongside Paulo and he said that his negotiations this summer quote unquote shouldn’t be too stressful in a very cheeky joking manner because we all expect almost midnight the night of the finals ends to get that Sham’s notification the Magic and Paulo have agreed to terms on a max, you know, rookie uh, you know, contract extension. Yeah. Well, when someone slides you a piece of paper that says, “Hey, you know, the total amount like the maximum amount you’re allowed to make for your role. Hey, we’re offering that to you.” You just sign it. You just sign it. You move on. So, you figure out everything else later. Like, that’s right. You know, it doesn’t Everything else is is is kind of irrelevant at that point. I should I should also add you sign it when it’s nine figures or whatever that number, you know, 270 million or whatever it is, right? You just sign it. you figure it out later. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. All right. We got to hear from Jaylen Suggs as well, and he was asked, I think it was by Josh Robbins, uh, essentially, I’m paraphrasing the question here, but would he consider like changing the way that he plays to, you know, hopefully ward off future uh, future injuries. And Jaylen’s quote unquote said, “I ain’t changing a damn thing.” But that was a direct quote from Jaylen. He said, “I’ll be honest with you. I’m not changing the way that he plays.” which I was really encouraged to hear. Um, and then he also added that he expects to be ready for next season, which is good because for me there was a little bit of uncertainty when we got that news a couple of weeks ago that the expectation is that they’ll be ready for next season, which isn’t like, hey, they definitely will be, but like kind of maybe we’re kind of hoping for that. To hear him say that he expects to be back uh for next season was was great to hear. He’s working on a lot of like upper body strength, you know, strengthen the rest rest of his body, um, bulk up a little bit and then when he’s kind of given the green light, full go to get back in shape and he said that usually that kind of stuff happens pretty easy for me for him to, you know, cut back down and wait to get back to his playing condition. Um but then he was asked about the team shifting towards a win now approach and to me he had the most interesting and sort of nuanced answer of the day where he again paraphrasing here I don’t have the whole quote and you guys if you want the whole quote you can go and watch the exit interview but he said that he loves all the guys that they play with but at the end of the day what he’s really interested in is winning. He said, “I’m really really interested in winning.” And he said kind of his hard-headed mentality is that they can win with the people that they have now if they just do things the right way. Cuz he really believes in that group and he really loves that group. But even these guys acknowledging that, yeah, it’s really important to us that we like the guys that we play with and this brotherhood that we’ve grown and this culture that we’ve helped create here. At the end of the day, what we really, really, really want is winning. and for the locker room to say that. We can all say that on the outside. That’s easy to watch these games and um to have a little bit of insight, but not really in the day-to-day of of those relationships and and friendships. And like when Dell later on was talking about even if this team comes back and it’s not the same, this particular group, I think we’re always going to be in touch. We’re going to be at each other’s weddings and and things like that. for all of that kind of stuff to be true and for them to be able to look around the locker room and be like, “Hey, I love you guys.” But you know what I really love is winning basketball. And that’s what we’ve been saying. We love that these guys get along. We love the the vibes and the social media videos and the postgame interviews and all that kind of stuff. But that stuff kind of gets old if you’re not winning. And for these guys to acknowledge that and really the organization is acknowledging that at this point has me really excited for the future and tells me that we do have the right guys here that even they can acknowledge like hey we all want to be here. We love being here but at the end of the day it’s about winning. The fact that they understand that and I just thought Jaylen gave the most perfect answer about that of the entire day. Yeah, it’s you you said it exactly like we’ve talked many times about, you know, how the vibes are great in the locker room and, you know, we’ve had players on, we’ve had Jamal on and everybody said it, you know, vibes are great, team gets along great. Um, the power of friendship only gets you so far. You know, we we joked about that, you know, in December when we were missing half half the team or whatever that and we’re still finding ways ways to win games. You know, that Cinderella story can only take you so far. And obviously um that Cinderella story feels like it came to an end with the end of this season. And so but you’re right like to hear you know Jaylen mention that and uh obviously it’s it’s hard it’s hard when we talk about these things or when we hear other people talk about these things like I think we Magic fans have certain players in mind you know like when when they’re talking about whether it’s trading defense for offense or just getting better offensively or or whatever. It makes me wonder if the players themselves also have guys in mind and I’m sure none of it is personal, right? Or may obviously behind closed doors, who knows? You know, maybe some guys don’t like each other. I’m sure that’s that’s normal any workplace, right? You got people you like, people don’t you don’t like, but it makes you wonder if if some of those guys are like, “Yeah, I hope this player is included in a dealer.” You know, it’s it’s it’s always so interesting to me cuz especially cuz I don’t know about your line of work, Jonathan, but in my line of work, we don’t necessarily like just swap, you know, employees for other companies. Like there’s no trading and stuff. So, I can’t imagine what that is like. Like, hey, I hope my boss trades this guy for someone else. Like, that’s weird. But, uh, yeah, it makes me wonder if if those guys have specific people in mind or if they’re just like, I just want to win, you know? I think it’s it’s probably I almost guarantee it’s very different because when you’re growing up and you’re a fan of the NBA, you just know it’s part of the business, right? So, you have like 15 16 years of like, you know, conscious memory of how the NBA works before you get to that point. So, if our bosses tomorrow were like, “Hey, you guys are all on the the trading block now. That’s a thing now.” It would be pretty jarring. And you said, “I haven’t traded on 2K before.” We’ll put it that way. Oh, 100%. I I’ve traded every single one of these guys. Even Even like Paulo Banker when he gets into, you know, age 41 season and he’s making $60 million a year and I’m trying to rebuild the magic at that point. Yes, absolutely. How dare you? Where’s the loyalty? What do you do at that point? You just you you stop the franchise mode, dude. If he’s there that long, he’s won me championships. He’s he’s staying for life. He’s a Dirk Nitzky. He’s staying for life. when he’s taking up like 80% of the salary cap, that’s when I’m like, “All right, we got to start making some moves here.” I meant I don’t mean that we trade them. I’m saying, you know, if they play their my player or whatever, right? Like trades happen on there, too. Like they’ve they’ve requested a trade on there, you know? So, you’re right. It is more part of the culture, you know, with the NBA. But, yeah, it’s it’s definitely interesting to think about. And you brought up like the power of friendship only gets you so far. I think we have enough evidence to say the power of friendship gets you to the first round and that’s it. That’s kind of where we are at this at this point. So, but yeah, I thought that was awesome. Jaylen Sucks probably gave the the best quote of the day. Maybe the the best overall interview of the day was Jonathan Isaac and answered some questions and as forthcoming as Jeff Welman was, Jonathan Isaac might have oneuped him in the exit interviews. And he was asked about the way that he felt he played this year. And he said, “Honestly, I don’t feel that I played that well.” and said that he regretted putting on the weight last summer where he went from, you know, 230 all the way up to 250. And then he mentioned that it was a collective decision that it was he and the team both agreed that him playing at the five adding the weight was probably a good idea and that he said it doesn’t work with the way that I play, especially with the way that I defend. I think it was a misstep. That’s that’s a big thing to say, but to his credit, he mentioned that he and the team agreed on this and he said really with his mental makeup and the way that he tries to play the game, the weight really got in the way and he started to play a little bit better as the year went on as we kind of all said that. Um, he said his personal positive was playing in 75 games and then he also agreed with Philip Rossman Reich’s question that the shooting was mental for both him and the team. So he said he is going to look to get down to around like 230 back to where he was playing before. He said he started the season at 250, ended the season about 235. And to me, this is just the most reasonable and logical explanation for why Jonathan Isaac had such a down year. We can all point to the shooting. We can point to the shooting of basically the entire team. So, I don’t feel that it’s right to hold that against any one player in particularly because it does seem like at some point there was just something in the water. And, you know, playing organized basketball growing up, when your teammates start to hit shots and your team is playing well, you’re more confident and willing to take shots because you know at that point it’s really not that consequential if you make it or miss it. So, you’re less tense and you’re ready to just kind of pull the trigger there. And that issue mentally really seemed to seep into the entire team’s mindset and confidence issue. So I don’t want to hang up so much about the shooting. But that being said, with the drop off in salary going into next year, he’s not making 25 million. I think it’s 15 million starting next year. if he is able to get back to that level of defender that he was in previous years. He played in 75 games this year, not as many minutes obviously, but this kind of I was leaning in my mind towards like, okay, guys that we would be willing to trade or or keep. And I think everybody outside of three or four guys I have available like if there’s a good enough offer. But just my gut feeling in terms of like should we move this guy? Should we not move this guy? If you’re looking to trade defense for offense, if you can bring like that level of JI back, you’re able to bundle a lot more defense together and send that out for like an offensive guy if you still have guys like Fron, Jaylen, and Ji on this team. So, I don’t know if that changed your mind about Ji at all. I don’t we haven’t even really talked you know whether you felt one way or the other with bringing Ji back next year but to me this was like yeah that makes sense with what we’ve seen this year right for me not being a professional athlete and not being a sevenfooter I I just wonder how possible it is to recapture that like you put on the weight you do it for a whole year like is it just that simple is it just get the weight off the summer and then boom you’re back to old Jonathan Isaac or is it not? You know, fair question. Um, that’s that’s the only question I have with this. Obviously, I hope that’s the case. I hope he can shed the pounds and lock back into how he used to play cuz obviously, you know, athleticism was a huge part uh of uh of his defensive prowess, if you will, right? But yeah, I don’t know. That’s that’s a very big question mark for me this summer. Um, like you said, if if that version of Jonathan Isaac is available this summer, it it’s hard to to deal him, especially if he can be consistent at the corner three again. But, um, outside of that, wouldn’t wouldn’t be surprised to see him potentially as one of those guys that gets swapped for more offensive players. And if we’re strictly talking about like guys that have the most value, like, yeah, next year it goes down to 15 million. If you can convince a team that that’s the Jonathan Isaac that they’re getting for $15 million a year, that is a guy who would be a significant trade piece in my opinion. So, if it was me, I’m leaning towards keeping him and I would be willing to roll the dice that you are getting that guy back. And not just saying that on blind faith, like at towards the end of the year, we did see Ji start to get closer to that level. And regardless, again, I don’t pretend to understand like a lot of the advanced defensive metrics, but most of the advanced defensive impact metrics out there still had Ji as one of the most impactful defenders in the league, even though he didn’t really meet the standard that we’re all accustomed to. So, the impact is still there. If he can drop the weight, and it is a fair question, like once you put on that amount of weight and you lose a lot of that agility, is it possible to get that back? I don’t really know. I’m sure hoping that it is. And if it is, I’m willing to roll the dice and and and keep him and see, you know, see what he’s got uh for another year there. Yeah. We got a quick kind of update from Oagner. Wasn’t, you know, very long. Obviously isn’t going to have a ton to say. Uh but was asked about the rehab and he said, “It’s going well. I’m feeling really good.” And then when asked about being ready for next season, he said, “That’s what I’m working towards.” And then another thing that I just I I just love these Vagners. I love their family dynamic. And he was asked to like evaluate Fron’s season. He says, I don’t evaluate his play. He’s like, I I’m his brother and I’m his teammate. I try to separate the two. And he said, essentially, I couldn’t care less how Fron plays. Like, I care about the person. He’s my best friend. Playing with him has been amazing. It’s been awesome for our family and all that kind of stuff. So, um, yeah, good to hear that Mo Vagner feels well and hopefully he’s ready for the start of next season. Yeah, we’ll see. I was doing the math when he was talking. You know, if he had the ACL in December, that puts you right on the line, right? Typically, they say nine in the NBA, you know, it’s nish months, which would be September. So, um, we’ll see. We’ll see if he’s able to get back by then and then get ramped up and ready for the season to tip off in late October. Kevin, this is this is kind of a a paradox with the Orlando Magic. Shifting to the win now mentality, do we see the Magic approach injuries differently moving forward? Not saying they’re going to bring a guy back too early, but are they going to go the complete opposite side of the spectrum, which they have before, is like we’re going to bring you back at like the last possible moment. Mhm. not with the ACL in this situation, but you’re saying in general, yeah, I mean, it’s possible maybe a maybe a slight move towards more uh aggressive instead of conservative, but I would be surprised if we’re rushing guys back at this because again, we’re talking about win now, but there’s different levels of win now if you ask me, right? Like we’re still again a couple years away from their primes, Fron and Paulo at that point. Yeah, we’re we’re throwing guys out there with broken arms and, you know, in the playoffs, whatever. I don’t care. Like, we’re doing the hockey treatment. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, for now, maybe a little bit more aggressive, but I don’t think it’d be anything crazy. Yeah. And then the next one was another short one, kind of surprisingly. It was Cole Anthony. Uh, the biggest quote that I took away was, “We all got to mature a little bit, learn to stay focused.” And he went on to say, “Mainly a message for me, but the team, too.” and he mentioned multiple times the team needing to stay locked in and focused. And there were a few guys that alluded to that, just like staying locked in throughout the year, staying mentally tough, staying focused. I think KCP mentioned that as well. Uh, did that stand out to you or was there anything else that Cole mentioned that you kind of took away? Um, I don’t I I wouldn’t say it stood out to me. Honestly, it it sounded a little like a little bit more um I don’t want to say, you know, BS, but I mean, just it was a pretty just typical answer if you ask me. Like, I didn’t read too much into it. Um yeah, I I don’t know, man. I the whole Cole thing is like when we when we talked when I asked the question earlier, like we think of certain players, right? Like does does Cole does Cole even see himself in some of these conversations? Like when when they’re asking him about when now or when he’s hearing Jeff Welman or like I I wonder if Cole realizes that some of these conversations are about him, right? Like or could be could that that’s a better way to put it. Yeah. Could be. You’re right. Could be about him. But I wonder if Cole feels like he’s so far removed or if he because he’s said he’s he’s known he didn’t play well this season or last season. I wonder if those thoughts or ideas have crept into his mind that crap I I was supposed to play for my my Orlando Magic career at least last year and maybe I I didn’t do a good enough job. And so I wonder if any of that is on his radar if he thinks he’s as the heart and one of the guys at the heart and soul of the team if he feels like he’s still safe. Does that make sense? Like I just wonder if he thinks that way. I I think BS might be just a little bit harsh, but I think this for me it was revealing that like sure this team everybody likes each other and you know they like playing for one another and they root for each other all that kind of stuff. But we kind of all felt that the vibes were very much off in January and February. And I think this is like a slight glimpse into the mindset of that time that he felt that some guys weren’t handling it very maturely and and weren’t really staying locked in and and focused during that time. Um I think Jet Howard uh later he mentioned like things like he learned this year like what to do and what not to do in terms of like preparation and mental and and team aspects. So I I wonder what he thought. Was it his own personal preparation? Was it, you know, other players or the team’s preparation in general? I’m not really sure. But hearing a few guys talk about like having to stay mentally tough and and having to stay locked in, it doesn’t totally surprise me because it it did feel like there were just like a lot of mental lapses as we were going through that losing streak in in January, in February. And yeah, I I am curious about really all of these guys, like what do they think about their future here in Orlando when they hear like win now and and knowing that trades are going to have to happen. They’re not going to go out and and add guys. Um, I guess the next guy that we can go to is like Contavius Cwell Pope and even he was asked about knowing like where he’ll be next season and how does it feel to hey know where you’re going to play and he was kind of like and it if I’m reading like behind the eyes he’s like I don’t know for 100% that I am going to be here next year. So, I think everybody knows that there’s like guys with two lockers like kind of, you know, towards the front of the locker room that those guys probably aren’t going anywhere. And the rest of everybody, it’s some guys there may be more chance that they’re going than others, but there’s like a nonzero chance that every guy on this roster probably outside of Powell and Fron could be traded. And I think that does have to be kind of in the back of everyone’s mind this summer. Like at any time you could be out with your family on a boat somewhere having a party, at the movies, wherever, and you could get that from your agent in your pocket. Hey, you’re going to Memphis or you’re going wherever, right? Like, I think this is going to be a little bit of a stressful summer for a lot of these guys who have been here and who want to be able to see this thing out, but may have not played well enough to cement themselves being here next year, right? So, I I think, you know, that’s got to be in in all of their minds at this point. Yep. Which, by the way, you and I talked about this, the the uh the the possibility for a trade starts as soon as the season is over for the Magic. So, like right now, the Magic can make trades with teams that are not in the not currently still in the playoffs, which is crazy, right? That that the NBA you can do trades while other teams are playing in the playoffs, but which is kind of crazy, but it’s possible. like it’s possible ever see that happen because then you’re closing yourself off from like dealing with you know all the other teams that are still playing. But the fact that like it’s possible even right now is crazy to think about. Yeah. Anytime between now and next February it’s possible between now and the next trade deadline. Uh which is crazy. But yeah, it’s it’s it’s valid. Like it it feels that way. Uh it’s I’m sure nerve-wracking for them. It’s I don’t want to say nerve-wracking for us fans, but it it definitely uh is exciting, but also there’s a little bit of anxiety there, right? Like you just there’s a lot on the line. A lot can go right, a lot can go wrong, and it’s just it it’s a lot of unknowns that are going to happen between now and October pretty much. I don’t really know how they’re going to deal with it because I know you and I basically starting the day after the finals, I’m going to be on edge every day. Yeah, first it’s going to be waiting for the Paulo extension to come through and then it’s just going to be waiting for a trade because it could literally happen at any time. Like Luca Donis got traded at like 11:30 on a Friday or Saturday night, whatever that was. That has shown us that anything is possible. Or even even fast forward to the opposite end of it, James Harden was traded like the week of training camp or something crazy like that, you know, right? So like it’s literally possible at any point between June to past again even into the trade deadline. So yeah, it’s going to be very very interesting to see how that goes. And it’s not like years past where we approach free agency. We’re like, hey, the Magic might do something, they might not do anything at all. We know they’re going to do something and they’re going to do, you know, probably multiple somethings this off season and they’re going to be significant. Back to KCP. uh he was talked about some of his offensive struggles this year and he didn’t exactly come out and say it but I had felt that he was alluding to not getting the looks that he’s used to like in the flow of the offense and he said he he didn’t really have an issue fitting in with the team but he said there was an adjustment in trying to figure out his teammates and kind of finding where those looks were going to come from and and trying to to get into the rhythm that his approach to this summer is going to be to get in the gym obviously knock down a lot of shots Um, and he his biggest takeaway was his the ability to see that they could stay mentally strong and together throughout the season. And then again, he was asked about, you know, how does it feel to know where you’re going to be? And he kind of like stumbled through the answer for that a little bit and just kind of, you know, my very novice level of body language. It was like, hey, I I don’t know if I’m actually going to be here next off season. So, yeah, that was very interesting. Kevin, I know you’re not a hockey guy, bro, but I just got to say I just got to say, bro, Winnipeg just tied game seven with 1.6 seconds left in the third period. That is the craziest thing I have ever seen. Holy smokes. I am a hungry guy, but now that the lightning are out, I totally don’t care. Oh my gosh, that is that is that is crazy. Okay, back to the magic. I love the magic so much. Here we go. Let’s go back to the these X interviews. Who’s left? Like we got like five guys left. We’ve got we’ve got most of the team left still. Uh, anything that you took from KCP? Uh, yeah. No, that was the one like that whole idea of, you know, being there or not being there. That was it for me. Okay. When Dell, he talked about playing through injury, injuries that nobody really knew about, which always is always funny to hear because it’s like, well, if you’re hurt, isn’t that supposed to be on the injury report? And Wendell just wasn’t really on the injury report for most of, you know, the end of the season. So it’s like how much are they really sharing on those things was one thing he mentioned that the shooting for himself the entire team was mental common thread really outside of like the win now and like proud of the team for fighting through the adversity they faced the shooting being a mental issue was a one of the more common themes throughout the exit interviews and then we talked about kind of his weirdish reaction to the win now question where didn’t really seem like he was sure what the question was asked to have the question stated again and then kind of went through it and said, “Well, what do I think about the team shifting to a win now approach?” And he’s like, “Well, that just, you know, means we got to start winning games.” And it’s like, “Yeah, that’s exactly what it means.” But I don’t maybe he didn’t understand that the question was more about like what’s going to happen with the roster with the team kind of approaching that, which I believe was the nature of the question. But yeah, maybe like you said, maybe it was the first time he was hearing that or maybe he hadn’t really put too much thought into that, but was for sure an interesting reaction or answer to that question. Well, yeah, I I took it again because the question was asked and maybe he just zoned out or didn’t hear it or whatever. And then when it was repeated, I don’t remember it being repeated as, you know, Jeff talked about when now. It was like, what does that phrase mean to you? Win now. And so if he didn’t put the two and two together like Jeff said this or whatever, that’s how I took it. Again, it’s, you know, it’s who knows, right? But I didn’t believe they have the like the one- on-one interviews with these guys before they meet with the media. It always seems like there are like specific talking points, whether it be at media day or the exit interviews. And Jeff Weldman in the interview, I think it was with Mike Bianke, alluded to the fact that these are really kind of informal meetings at the end of the year that most of the stuff that they would tell these guys, you know, work on this or work on that or what were your feelings on the season. So, we’ve kind of already done that stuff before we’ve gotten to this point. So, I would be a little bit surprised if this was like just the first time like, well, we’re winning now. Well, that’s news to me. You know, I I would be surprised if that was the case, which was why I found that reaction so interesting. And yeah, it it’s this is going to be a stressful summer for a lot of these guys, I think. Maybe. Yeah, we’ll see. Gary Harris, uh, he talked about getting used to a new role, obviously, not being as involved, not starting. The most interesting part for me was he was basically asked if he wanted to be back. He didn’t exactly come out and say yes. He kind of said like we’ll kind of see what happens. He didn’t say like yes, I love being here. I wanted to be here. But he did say that he likes being here. He likes everybody. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. But he didn’t have like the Cory Joseph where Cory Jose like of course I want to be back. Right. Yeah. Gary, if if I’m remembering correctly, I remembered thinking, “Wow, Gary is using a lot of past tense when he’s talking about it. You know, liked my time here, you know, all that kind of stuff.” Um, and so, yeah. Well, the other part of him, obviously, he’s a little bit different situation because he actually is a potential free agent, you know, this summer. So, it’s a little bit different than some of the other guys we’ve we’ve talked about. But, yeah, it was a lot more past tense than I think we heard from anybody else. So that was interesting. I loved his answer when they asked him about, you know, the approach to, you know, the the team shifting towards like a win now focus and he said, “Yeah, it’s exactly as it should be.” That was refreshing to see like guys like Contavis, Cowwell, Pope, and Gary who have been in like really competitive, highlevel winning environments like reiterating the fact that yes, that is the natural progression for where this team is at. You have bronze, you have Paulo, you have other promising pieces. It’s time to now like get real about what we’re doing. Like we ain’t playing house no more. Like it is it is it is time to go. Uh moving on to Anthony Black. Uh he one of his biggest takeaways for the season was he said that was good that our team was able to stay together. He said that he felt like he made a lot of growth in a lot of areas, but he’s going to be working on things like shooting, dribbling, finishing through contact, and creating his own shot this summer. And he said he’s going to split his time between Orlando and Dallas, but spend most of his time in Orlando, just like he did last season. And then he was asked about uh what he thought about his, you know, aggression. And that was a common theme with Jamal Mosley throughout the year when talking about Anthony Black and talking about his ability to be aggressive and how it could, you know, really change things for the Magic. And he said he’s like, “I don’t know. I felt like I did a good job with what was given to me.” Which to me, again, reading kind of between the lines here, he still wants more of an opportunity. And we saw that he was given more of an opportunity this year, but that was definitely something where his opportunities were very up and down. Like he was starting, he was like the main guy in the bench unit. Then he wasn’t getting as much minutes. And we saw that really fluctuate throughout the year and to his credit really came on strong towards the end of the year, which was much needed. But it does kind of feel like a guy that was like, I was the sixth pick in the draft, and I still don’t really know what my role is on a month-to-month basis with this team, and I’m not really giving being given the opportunity that I think I’m I’m deserving of and that I’m capable of handling. So, I I I like that about Anthony Black, though. Like, I don’t see that as like a problem or anything weird. He’s not trying to make it out to like he’s the guy or like go out there and make it about you. Like he’s not doing any of that kind of crazy stuff, but he’s so confident in his abilities that he’s like, “No, I should be given more of an opportunity because I’m really good and I know I can help this team.” So, some people might take that kind of a weird way, but I I didn’t at all. I really like hearing that from him. Yeah, the 100% agree. The other thing that was interesting, someone asked him about um summer league, you know, if he’s going to play summer league this year, and he he was like, you know, we haven’t talked about it, but did you hear the very last thing he said? Like, I like I hope not. Exactly. He pretty much said, I hope I I hope I’m not playing, but he was open to it. You know, he ended the last sentence by saying, you love hearing that, but a guy going into his third year, you know, that was the six pick in the draft, you don’t really want to see that guy in some league. and and I’m sure he probably doesn’t really want well he obviously said that but like the the optics of a third-year guy top six pick playing in summer league not always the best so there’s the pride issue there too and I don’t mean an issue but like there’s also pride on the line I guess I should say if he ends up being asked to do that but I thought that was kind of funny as well and I love the fact that he talked about shooting dribbling finishing through contact creating his own shot you know late in the shot clock all that kind of stuff cuz the Magic need more of that And we saw we’ve seen a lot of flashes from Anthony Black of of being able to do that. So him kind of evolving that and and being able to take that to the next level to me is really exciting. Yep. Next, Cory Joseph, he said this was his favorite season. For a guy who has won an NBA championship, you know, back in, I think it was 2014 with the Spurs. to say that this season with it’s crazy and up and downs as emotional as it was. For him to say that this was his favorite season speaks to a couple of things. Obviously, he’s later in his career and you always as you age and mature, you appreciate things a lot more. even if like to the outside world they’re not as big of a deal like playing with the Magic and you know being one of the reasons that they’re able to turn their season around and 41 wins, 41 losses, losing the Celtics in five games versus winning an NBA championship on one of the greatest basketball dynasties that we have in the modern era is awesome. I I I heard that and I was like a Corey like that’s that’s just really heartwarming to hear that. Um and just everything that I’ve heard like the dude just seems like a phenomenal human being. And it also just speaks to like what we’re building here. We say it all the time, but everybody talks about the culture and how much everybody likes each other. It’s really easy to say that stuff, but when all of the like peripheral stuff is proof of that, like stuff like this, like you don’t say that if there isn’t an awesome environment that you get to work in every day. So, I thought that was really cool. He was asked if he wanted to be back and he said, “Of course.” And he’s like, “I just said it’s my favorite season. Of course, I want to be back.” You know, joking with the reporters. And then he was asked about how close he thinks the Magic are to contention. and he said, “I think we’re very close.” Now, everyone’s going to say that, but for a guy who has seen it, who has been on a team that got it all done, for him to at least hold the public opinion that this team is very close to contention, that’s not a like you like hearing that. It might just be him saying that, but I think we all believe that to a certain degree. Yeah. And um I would also just say all those things combined, I think there’s a nonzero chance that he’s back next year. Magic, it’s it’s a $3.4 million team option. You know, we said he was, you know, break glass in case of emergency type player. We had an emergency, he had to play, but I think in an ideal world, he doesn’t really play, you know, this season, but we just weren’t given that. And so I think I mean we just talked about like what a great vet to have around, what a great guy to have on your on your roster to help some of the younger guys. And so a lot of people dismissing, you know, saying it’s his last game and all that kind of stuff. I’m not so sure. It’s a that’s a cheap cheap deal. It’s a team option. So we’ll see. But yeah, it was nice to hear uh Cory enjoyed the season cuz he’s he’s a harder guy to read, right? You know, like you know, he’s not super, you know, emotional and all those kinds of things when you see him on the court. So to just hear him verbally say, “Yeah, this is one of my favorite seasons ever.” It’s it’s pretty cool. And and obviously glad glad we had Cory this season for sure. If we get the Cory Joseph that we thought we were getting this year, again, the break glass in case of emergencies, sit on the bench, never sees the floor other than garbage time Cory Joseph, I am 100% on board for bringing him back next season. I think he has the championship pedigree. I feel like he’s great in the locker room and the guy is serviceable in a very big pinch. So yeah, I’m all for bringing Goa Bat bringing Gogo Bat back. That’s where we’re going now. I figured I am for bringing Gog Bat back. As a matter of fact, um not much from Goa. Um for me, the biggest thing was that he’s going to work on his shooting in the summer, which he said is already there, but it’s just about having the confidence to take those in games, which is really true for everyone. And then I love the quote from him talking about Jaylen Suggs. He said, “Jayen Suggs is our heart.” And he said, “He almost forces you to play defense with just like the way that he plays and the effort and the intensity that he brings.” And again, it just shows you how important Jaylen Suggs is to this team. I’ve seen some crazy nonsensical kind of stuff about people saying, “Oh, I’m fine if we trade Jaylen Suggs.” all that kind of like one I don’t think you realize quite how good he actually is and impactful he is on the floor but I don’t think you realize how important that dude is to this team and the way that they defend and the way that they play. So did you see our record without him? Like anyone asking that question? Did you see our record without him? Not good. Not good at all. Jet Howard. Um I actually thought that Jet’s interview was short, but I thought there was some pretty notable things that came out of that. I I said earlier he mentioned this year he learned what to do what not to do and in terms of like the preparation mental and team aspects. He also said I could have played better evaluating his own season. I could have played better went on to say impacted the game more. And then he said that’s what next year is for. Jed Howard 11th pick in the draft going into your third year. Really really hope that’s the case. And then I found that this was pretty interesting. They asked what his summer is going to look like and he said, “I’m going to be playing as much as f as much five on five as possible this summer.” And then he said, “I don’t like doing individual skill work.” Which at first I was like, I don’t really love you saying that. But when he went on to say like, it’s just not realistic situations and I just prefer to like work on my game in games and he said that’s kind of what’s I’ve seen the most growth from. I’m not really gonna argue with a guy who got to the NBA by doing things a certain way and like what works for you works for you. I’m sure there will be some individual work. More than anything, what I want to see from Jet Howard going into next year, the shooting, I believe, will be there. If he gets enough minutes, enough reps, all that kind of stuff, I believe he is going to be like a very, very, very good NBA three-point shooter. I just want to see him be able to defend competently and consistently. If Jet Howard can do that, if Jet Howard can be as good of a defender as Caleb Houston next year, to me, that’s a win. I’m not even talking necessarily about the Magic. Would I love to be able to bring Jet Howard in, pop him into the rotation, and give the Magic like instant offense because not only can he shoot, he can create off the dribble. I feel like he’s a really good connector and passer, all that kind of good stuff. But if he can be good or passable defensively, sure, that would be awesome for the Magic. I want to see Jet Howard be a successful NBA player, whether it’s here or elsewhere. But it does seem like his only route to that happening is becoming passable defensively, which at this point he just is not. And it’s not for lack of like physical ability. It’s just like you have to want it and you have to be locked in on that end on every possession if he can get there. Like I love the ability of Jet Howard being like the Caleb Houston where like hey things aren’t working right now. We’re going to throw somebody else into the lineup. Kind of see what happens and see what you can get from Jet Howard. I think next year there’s going to be even less room for stuff like that unfortunately. But I believe in Jet Howard’s talent offensively for sure. He’s just got to be able to figure it out defensively. So, that I think will will be really big for him. So, some of that stuff was interesting. And then the last thing that he said about the offense was he said it didn’t quote unquote flow the right way. He said sometimes it did and we looked awesome, but overall it didn’t quite flow the right way. I would be I would have loved to follow up on that. Like what do you mean you didn’t think it flowed the right way? But Kevin, did any of that stand out to you? I I I know you’re off the Jet Howard train. I’m not trying to I know I’m talking to a Jet Howard truther. No, dude. But Jonathan, like for to to say like individually, I’m saying what I would like. I’m not saying what is likely. I’m saying what I would like to see. Here what I’m saying. I’m saying I think you’re giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the individual workout stuff. Like that’s that could be fair. That’s kind of that’s a kind of crazy thing to say, Jonathan. Like, there are zero 0.0 elite NBA players that didn’t get better through individual workouts. 0% of good NBA players. You can say, “Yeah, he made it to the NBA.” All that kind of stuff. Fair. I’m sorry. It’s just not a thing. It’s not a thing. So, that was in the moment. I was like, “That’s a crazy thing to say, but like you’re kind of cooking.” But maybe not. It is a crazy thing to say. I’ll just be honest with you. However, the other thing I do understand is he him saying he’s going to play five on five because he just didn’t get a lot of opportunity to do that this year. No, I don’t mean that in a bad way. I mean, I’m being serious. Like, from October to May, how much five on five was he really able to do? Probably not a lot. So, he’s going to want to spend time this summer getting that in so that he could potentially be ready for next year potentially on the Magic or otherwise. So yeah, that yeah, I think you’re being a little giving him a little bit too much of the benefit of the doubt. That’s a crazy thing to say. I really want it to work out for Jed Howard in Orlando or otherwise. I still think it’s pretty interesting that he didn’t really spend any time with Oyola this year. Yeah. Like in his second year, I mean last year, Caleb Houston’s second year, we saw him spend a good amount of time with Oyola and it seemed to really benefit him. Um, just surprised that we didn’t see that from Jet Howard, but yeah, you’re you’re probably right there. Moving on to Tristan. Again, another short one like as you get down the line, these kind of start to get shorter and shorter. He was asked about like the challenge and like handling changing roles where he was in the starting lineup and then he was in the bench unit and then he wasn’t playing and then he was and then he wasn’t. Said it was tough. uh was asked about the rookie wall and he said, “Well, you know, you’ve never played that many games before in your life. So, you there is a moment during the season where you feel tired.” And then um he talked about working on his base for like the the main thing that he’s working on this season. I I took that as mostly just like his like offensive and defensive stances. He talked about being able to move out of his base with more power, you know, off the dribble into shooting in his defensive stance, all that kind of stuff. So, um, seems like he’s getting back to like the fun fundamentals this off seasonason. And I I know we’re going to do player grades, you know, later on in the offseason here, but I’m still really encouraged from what we saw with Tristan Dilva this year. I like I I do understand like, hey, if you have to put in him in a deal to make some of this stuff work this summer, it probably makes sense. But that’s a guy that I would really, really, really like to be able to hold on to cuz once he figures out the shooting, we saw him be able to do some stuff off the dribble, solid defender. I hope that’s not a guy that that that’s a guy I think that we could trade and then three or four years from now we could be like, man, that would be a really nice guy to have. Yeah, 100% agree. And then I also, like you said, really liked his answers as well. Like he obviously he’s an older rookie, right? So, he’s been around organized basketball for a long time, but to hear him like have a good understanding of some of the highs from his his season, but also knowing some of the things he needs to work on, you know, this off seasonason and going forward, I was very encouraged by that. But yeah, a big fan of Tristan and um yeah, I agree. Definitely a guy I’d be disappointed and sad if if he was part of those potential trade deals we’re talking about. Caleb Houston, man of many words. The shortest, said the shortest of all of them, right? I think so. Pretty close, if not the shortest. He was asked, you know, did it help getting more minutes this year to sort of be more consistent and be more confident. He said it definitely helped a lot. And this summer, he’s going to work on defense and shooting off the move, which we had like a month stretch where Caleb Houston was awesome shooting the ball. So again, a really cheap deal, but that could be a guy that could be like, “Hey, like this is what he did for us in a month if you’re trading him away to a, you know, young rebuilding team where he can get some more opportunity and a team wants to take a a flyer on a guy for $2 million, you know, kind of in the final year of his contract next year. That could be a guy that could be included in a deal. And then last but not least, M. McClung, which I just I love Mac. you know, the couple of times we’ve been able to be around him and just everything that you hear like to a person in the organization. Everybody loves Mac, he’s so humble, just really, really nice guy. Uh he mentioned that his value in the league isn’t necessarily like his talent, which he is talented, you know, I don’t think he was trying to say that he’s not, but he said that his value is that he is a winner and a competitor, you know, and he’s been on kind of winning teams wherever he has been on NBA rosters in the league. They of course asked him about the dunk contest and he said that he would probably lean towards not doing it again, but he said that time of year comes around and you kind of just never know. And then I thought this was a really awesome answer from him. He was basically asked like at this point like do you believe that you’re an NBA player and that like you should be on a roster at this point? And he said someone told him that you deserve nothing in this league. And that’s just a great perspective to have in life in general that like hey like at the end of the day we all have this kind of belief and this standard of like what people deserve and and what they don’t like at the end of the day no one really owes you anything. So he’s just going to continue to work and be the best version of himself and the best player and best teammate that he can be. Uh, was there anything else that you had from your uh your your I don’t know what would you consider that a neighbor gate city from where you are in Virginia? Well, I’m not in Virginia now where my family in Virginia is. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Well, listeners may not they they may not know I’m not in Virginia, but uh yeah. No, uh great guy. Um a lot of question marks for him, but he’s also kind of used to that. all all these guys that are G-League uh or two-way guys, they’re used to, unfortunately, it’s just the nature of it, bouncing around yeartoear, obviously they’re fortunate enough to have him for back-to-back seasons in OciOla, but we’ll see maybe what the offseason holds for Mac. Yeah. And then um after the exit interview, I think I think that was Friday, Anthony Parker was on uh in the zone with Brandon Kravitz on 969 the game. One thing that I think the biggest takeaway was Brandon Kravitz asked about the windhorse quote from his podcast the hoop collective after the trade deadline where paraphrasing here he said the magic don’t make calls they don’t do trades like they just don’t and we kind of came out when that quote started to cir circulate and we said this sounds like someone who talked to like three or four GMs and then just try to like extrapolate that for the rest of the league and say like drew just a massive conclusion from a few conversations that he had and Anthony Parker basically said that he he stopped short of of saying that that’s not the truth. Essentially said that that’s not exactly accurate and you would have to ask Brian Winorth exactly where he got that information and what he was trying to speak to. And then again, he also mentioned that the the they were making calls, you know, and they’re always kind of quote unquote doing their job in exploring how to make the team better. But he again went to the same point of Jeff Welman and saying that really what we were looking at was expiring contracts. And I’m just kind of piecing together the logic here that okay, you guys are trying to get underneath the apron or you’re trying to open up cap space so you have more flexibility this off season. you were trying to get some short-term shooting help, but you didn’t want to give up anything of value that you knew you most likely were not going to retain. So, I started to look at some of like the guys who were going to be free agents this year and in terms of like real guard help. When you look at the guys who are going to be free agents this year and you start to piece together who they might have been targeting, I really cannot argue with them not wanting to give up anything of value. Like you start going down the list and you see like Bruce Brown Jr., were we going to give up anything of value for a couple of months of Bruce Brown Jr.? No. Does Bruce Brown Jr. even probably really move the needle? No. Malcolm Brogden, that’s a guy that you probably could argue would move the needle. But am I giving up Anthony Black or anything of value or a first round pick or anything like that for two months of Malcolm Brogden? No. I’m just going to continue to go through names here. You can stop me when you’re like, “Oh, hey, actually, we should have made the move for that guy.” Spoiler alert, it’s not going to happen. Tim Hardaway Jr., D’Angelo Russell, Luke Canard, Dennis Schroeder, Trey Jones, uh, Vasilei Mechic, um, Javon Carter, Malik Beasley, uh, DaVon Mitchell, Aaron Holiday, Nquille Alexander Walker, like either these guys wouldn’t have been available regardless or you’re not trading anything of value for two months of those guys. So everything that we know and all we know is what we’re told. We don’t know absolutely what the truth is. But going off of what we know, I don’t necessarily agree with the approach. But if that was their approach and that was their mindset, then I would agree with the decision and conclusion that they came to. However, what I would counter is why wouldn’t you go out and get a guy that you knew would be here for 2 to 3 years maybe beyond this season and in that case maybe would have been more willing to give up trade assets or you know draft capital or whatever the case may be because again to Jeff Welman’s quote everybody is trying to squeeze everybody. So, whatever leverage you thought maybe you had or didn’t have during the trade deadline and that whole part of the season, you’re probably going to have at the bare minimum the same, if not less leverage going into the off season. So, but again with the philosophy that they’re throwing out into the ethos now and kind of seeing what would have been available and maybe putting together the the logic there, I would agree with the conclusion that they came to with that thought process. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I see where they were heading. Right. And the good news is what’s different between about the offseason versus inseason trades is you know obviously we are you know watching this team like a hawk. We’re dieh hard fans so we understand the circumstances. We understand how we feel like this team could be quote unquote squeezed. The good news is there’s half a dozen to a dozen other teams that are also in situations this summer, different than the Magics, but situations this summer where everybody in the league knows what they’re trying to do, right? Whether it’s a team that’s going to go all in on tanking or a team that’s going to go all in on trying to get better or a team that’s going to go all in trading a disgruntled star, right? Like every summer there’s a bunch of teams that everybody knows what they’re trying to do. So that is one silver lining with the offseason where the magic I while we feel there’s a big target on our back because everybody knows what we need. That’s that also can be said for a lot of other teams. So but yeah, when you look across that list, not a whole lot of guys you’d sacrifice a lot of future assets for when it comes to some of those guys. Yeah, Kev, this is officially our longest episode in who freaking knows how long. There’s a lot to to go through here, but the good thing is it’s all evergreen. So, you know, hopefully people have take took taken the whole week maybe to listen to this a little bit at a time over the course of the five days. But yeah, it’s it’s all interesting stuff. Yeah, speaking of taking some time, we took a little bit of time from the end of the season. wanted to just, you know, catch our breath before we kind of had another pot here. But now we are going to take a little bit more time now that really this we put a whole like an entire bow on this season, right? There’s not going to be any more news coming out in the very near future with the Magic. All the exit interviews are are done. Like we’re officially putting the 2024 2025 season to bed and now looking ahead. So Kevin and I are going to take a little bit of time off here. um and then come back with a full slate of offseason content. That’s going to be part of us taking some time off is getting together and saying, “Hey, this is what we need to do.” You know, what guests do we want to bring on the pod? All that kind of stuff. And obviously, we would always love to hear your feedback as our listeners and viewers. If there’s something specific that either we’ve done in previous offseasons that you really liked and you want to see again or maybe something that we haven’t done or haven’t tried before that you would like to see it or you would like to hear, please let us know. We’re always up to suggestions. Usually the way that the offseason moves is like we have a little bit of a break, then we get into draft stuff, right? We’ll obviously we’ll do that this year and then we get into free agency stuff and then usually we have some kind of like international type of competition with Fron and Goa and some of the other guys to get us through August and then like the last few weeks of August and like the first three weeks we have like a fiveweek window where there’s just nothing and then all of a sudden Magic basketball is back. So that’s just kind of like a brief rundown of how the offseason’s going to go. But we don’t really we’re not going to have a lot with free agency. We’re not going to have a lot potentially with international basketball. I was just going to say a couple dates to keep in mind. Um it’s not quite like last summer where we had a bunch of important dates when it comes to like contract extensions and stuff, but uh the club options for this year, the team options are uh the deadline for that is June 29th. So Cory Joseph, Mo Vagner, Gary Harris will get an idea before or on June 29th whether those three guys are going to be back on that team option deal. But um the other Oh no, that’s the and Caleb Houston. I almost forgot about Caleb Houston, but yeah, so those are the four. Um but outside of that, we already talked about the Paulo extension. He’s eligible for for that as soon as the finals are over. Um so yeah, those are some of the the key dates between uh now and I guess yeah, free agency starting in July. And looking a little bit even further, like as we get into the start of the season, Halloween will be Tristan Dilva, Jet Howard, and Anthony Black. They all have club option extensions for the 2026 2027 season. Tristan Dilva, Anthony Black, if they’re still on the roster because they haven’t been traded, those absolutely will be picked up. The Jet Howard club option for $7.3 million. That will be something to watch. At this point, I would not be shocked. I’d be I don’t even know where I would fall. Would I be surprised? Would I not be surprised? Like it’s it’s really that close in terms of whether or not I think they pick up that club option. Mhm. Will you be surprised if they pick it up? Yes. Wow. Okay. All right. Hey, Kevin has spoken. Yes, I would. All right. Good grief, man. I definitely would be surprised. All right. Awesome. I guess you you have uh Yeah. Tell me how you really feel or or please actually don’t tell me how you feel. From three, Jonathan. 29% from three this year. Yeah. I mean, I He’s a three-point shooter. I don’t think that’s I don’t think that’s totally fair, but Okay. We We’ve got a lot of guys on this team who are quote unquote three-point shooters that did not shoot the ball well this year. Yeah. All right. Um yeah, we’re putting a bow on the season. We’re putting a bow on this episode. That’s going to do it for this one for Kevin Tucker. This has been Jonathan Osborne. You all have been listening to the Six Man Show and we will catch you guys next time. See you. Thanks for listening to the Sixth Man Show. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and Spotify to get new episodes downloaded directly to your phone. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to give us a five-star rating and a review. It helps out the show a lot. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @6Man Show. We’ll catch you guys next time. Go Magic. Let’s go Magic. Let’s go Magic. Let’s go back.
The Magic’s season is officially OFFICIALLY over with the team conducting exit interviews on Thursday. The biggest take away was the teams shift towards a “win now” approach. We break down Jeff Weltman’s comments as well as the rest of the team.
Join our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thesixthmanshow
Follow Us: https://www.thesixthmanshow.com/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/sixthmanshow
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SixthManShow
YouTube: https://twitter.com/SixthManShow
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheSixthManShow
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/sixthmanshow
Hosts: @j_osborne21 & @kevin_tucker_
Music: Prod. by Tantu Beats
If you enjoyed the show please LIKE & SUBSCRIBE!
#OrlandoMagic #OrlandoMagicPodcast #PaoloBanchero #BlueWireVideo #FranzWagner
38 Comments
Anfernee Simons WALK WITH ME!
Really worries me how Suggs only averages 50 games played a year. We need more reliability
If we can get a player that dreamed to play for the magic since he was a baby, you have to jump on that. He was named after a magic star it's a beautiful thing. His motivation should be off the charts. He might just flip into an all-star SG because of it. It makes a wonderful story for central Florida and well worth the risk for the fans. Can't lose scenario.
In the name of Anfernee Hardaway, we will now have Anfernee Simons. Help take our team to its first championship.
Then get Ayton as well. Send Portland Wendell Carter and Cole and 1 of their first-round picks. Then grab Sexton with other first round pick and Houston Howard.
Sexton,Simons,Franz,Paulo and Ayton. Bench, Suggs 6th man. Perfect team
Weltman know his job is on the line. Can't sit on his hands and do nothing again next season.
You get the biggest bang for your buck by trading Franz.
GOOO MAGIC 💯 💯
Straight to the point what do you guys think of trading Franz for Giannis? I don’t want it to happen but I can’t say Jeff Weltman would not be enticed
Get Ji off this team
Jeff Weltman is open with Mike Bianchi because Bianchi asks him easy questions and barely pushes back on anything Weltman says.
Also I'm not sure that Weltman truly cares what us Magic fans think, our discontent is quite negligible. Results and his own job security have dictated his decision to "win now", not fan uproar. It's been like 3 consecutive trade windows of Magic fans being frustrated at our inactivity, but Weltman continued to sell his "patience" philosophy because the team was doing about enough to justify it.
The difference now is we had a disappointing season and the pressure is mounting from all other directions. Paolo and Franz look like frustrated all-stars that are being hung out to dry and the mainstream media are taking our Front Office to task for it. Weltman has no choice but to go the "win now" route. He knows that the "internal growth" path he set out is going to put his own job at risk.
I don’t believe Weltmans excuse about expiring contracts at the deadline. None and I mean none of the players we were discussing as potential PG’s to make deals for were in expiring (Simons, Sexton, C. White) aside from Schroder who I was begging for and could have been had for a second rd pick. This is damage control…he’s lying
Jett Howard situation reminds me about JJ Redick when he played for the Magic people forget JJ barely played his first 3 years in the league because of his defense then he got better
Franz ABSOLUTELY needs to work on his shot during the off season. Last time I checked Germany isn't paying him $40M a year. I don't give a rip about Germany buddy, get your butt in the gym and get it together or bye bye! That's the reality
I'm pulling for Denver the rest of the way.
Everyone hates it but I’m going to make the case for Ja Morant. My concern is I feel like the fanbase is trying to solve two problems with one player.
How I see it we need:
1. A lead guard who can create on his own
2. Multiple shooters
It feels like everyone just wants an average lead guard who can shoot and that “fixes everything”
It just wouldn’t. Ja Morant would make this team so much better. Gets rid of Paolo and Franz being overused as well.
And then you add shooters.
Okay now everyone can tell me I’m wrong and don’t know ball
Enjoy the time off guys, imo you should take a bit longer js
JI has one solid year and that’s the hope? I move him if we get a solid rotational player back.
I want off this train.
Who says no to:
WCJ, J.I, KCP for Sabonis and Monk?
I would throw a 1st in there as well
Call me crazy but I think KCP and Suggs would have been electric if Suggs would have stayed healthy. They absolutely caused havoc defensively to Miami that first game. I think upgrading WCJ and adding an elite 3 point shooter to the bench are the missing pieces
I respectfully disagree. I think there is a way to get what you want without giving up too much. Spurs showed us a blueprint. The fact that they were able get Fox with ease says something. Anything is possible. We can definitely score B+/A- type player with ease also. The Luka trade also showed anything can happen.
I’m ready for a preseason players bio to be able to keep up with all the new players
Believing in JI is such a fools errand, if I can get any value for him I’m getting him out of a magic uniform
What did detroit give up for Schroder?
I would love to trade for trae Young this summer
Actually Gate City Va. is next to Kingsport Tn a long way away from Virginia Beach like a 6 hour drive. 🤔🤷🏼♂️😱👍🏻
Summer time segment that would be cool would be a Where are they now of Magic Players from 1989-2025. What did they do with their lives after they retired from the league.
You gotta give Jett some time for him to get some type of feel for the game, not just in garbage time if any
"We need shooters" but shouldn't the guys making over 30mil learn to shoot efficiently first before we waste our money elsewhere? Drafted Jett to help address this but then players like Harris get to see the floor more and now he's prob gone. I feel "WIN NOW" began the minute Paolo was drafted, like WTF are we doing? If the splash this offseason is to bring in Simons then I'll just be ready to see us get bounced again.
Move Suggs, Wendell, Isaac, Cole and KCP. Suggs is injury prone especially after a knee surgery but his stock is still high.
Wow, I never thought I would hear the day Weltman is finally ready to move on and compete
For a good vid in off szn it may be a longshot but getting p5 on the pod would insane
Dang, would love to hop on an talk our magic team with you.
I just hope Cole Anthony leave hands in hands with Caldweel Pope..and Gary Harris with Goga, send them all away..
Anfernee Simons seems a good player but I hope Paolo Banchero will ask Markelle Fultz to come back. We ll see, but every nba team has 8-9 rotational great players, we are far from that.
i got a pf and a sf i did the p5 n franz build
keep ji trade cole gary goga
Go hard for Malik Beasley and Draft both a big, and take a flyer on a PG we can develop off the bench..