Playoff Lessons: Unpacking the Orlando Magic & Houston Rockets’ Seasons

Playoff Lessons: Unpacking the Orlando Magic & Houston Rockets’ Seasons

[Music] This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of the [Music] NBA. Welcome everybody. You’re tuned to the baseline. Cali Warren Shaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. We are rocking and rolling as uh we start narrowing down the final stages before we actually start talking about the conference finals and eventually the NBA finals. But while we have that little space, that gap, while people paying attention to the semis, we still got autopsies to handle, right? So, of course, you know, everybody must think I sleep in this stuff. You know, you know, listen, man, it’s part of the profession. What can I tell you? Anyway, let me go and ride the red carpet to my right-hand man. www.shports.net. Biguna PNC. My man Mr. Warren Shaw repping out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. What’s good, Mr. Shaw? What’s the What’s the deal, bro? But where’s the uh where’s it? Where’s Where’s the scrub headpiece? I Yeah, my surgeon hat, man. You know, they just called me. I got the 911. I had to just run in. I didn’t even have my time to get Okay. You got you you still using one of them pages? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they did. So, they had to watch me in. I I got I got got the scrub on but don’t have the surgeon hat. So, you know, maybe I’m going to have to direct from the sidelines and let you kind of handle the bulk of this one here as well, too. Two great teams to discuss here as we’re in the midst of the semi-finals as you alluded to. These two teams we’re going to discuss at least got to participate and got a little taste of the playoffs. Uh but we’re exited in the first round and we touched on them last week, but we’re going to dive a little bit deeper in this week. Yeah. So, um our focus for autopsy report this week is going to be on the Orlando Magic and the Houston Rockets. Two teams who um you know, in their own way surprised and surpassed expectations. We’ll go into, you know, how they are distinguishable between those two teams because I think it does have an impact on what kind of conversation you really want to have um about where the future’s going to look like or what the future’s going to look like for both of these teams, respectively. So, great show on tap, man. And as always, we appreciate you and yours for hopping on board with us this week. Be sure to get on my man Shaw Ashaw Sports NBA, I’m sorry, at the Warren Shaw. I I I my apologies. when did you officially um change change the name and and has this been uh certified? You know what I’m saying? Uh yeah, I’m I’m I’m not playing for blue check marks, but at the end of the day, yeah, decided to go away from the NBA specific moniker uh the Warren Shaw on all social media platforms here now to, you know, to encapsulate some of the things I do outside of our our work here on the baseline. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, it’s official like that. You know, you’re no longer Warren Shaw. You’re the Warren Shaw. Well, that’s only because our was taken up. So, yeah. Yeah. So, all other Warren Shaws, be careful. You know what I’m saying? Well, they beat me to it. So, you know, shout out to them because they were they were, you know, quicker on the draw. Um, and shout out to my to to Warren Shaw in Atlanta, uh, who does sports as well, too. He’s a hockey guy. Uh, but, you know, black individual as well. And I was, oh my god, like it was just a wild situation. But in any event, yes, the Warren Shaw here on all social media platforms. Rocket. I will stick to Gameface Lee because I I just don’t know if there are too many people who are ever going to call themselves gameface Lee and um you know plus I also like the fact that Dr. Kill patients is just cool underneath the It works for you. It works. Okay. Uh so as always man be sure to get my man Shaw at the Warren Shaw. You can get at me at gameface lead. The show’s Twitter handle NBA baseline available in all the major platforms. You know where to find us. You can also go to www.thebaselineba.com the baseline NBA.com to not only check out this episode, but also the plethora of episodes that we have archived for your listening pleasure. And as always, if you see us on the YouTube channel and you catch the blue and white logo down in the righthand corner of the screen, or maybe if you’re looking at us the opposite way would be the lefthand corner of your screen, uh that means we are with the 19 media group family. So 19 media group be running these content streets. Be sure to go to www.9media.com 19media.com to not only check us, but also the great family of content creators that are part of the 19 Media Group family. So, be sure to go to the website, check out us and also the family of creators that are doing their thing. Coming up, Sean and I are going to get right into it, man. Time for us to dig a little bit deeper. Autopsy report style. You do not want to miss out here on the baseline. Time now to do autopsy report. First team that we are ready to put on the slab. We’re going to talk about that team in Orlando, the Orlando Magic. Um, so back in the beginning of this of the episode of, you know, the introduction so to speak, right? What I was talking about was the Orlando Magic had a very unique path to get to them to get themselves to the playoffs. Right now, going into this season, this team certainly was picked among one of the top top eight teams given the success that they had the previous season. I think all eyes were fixedly focused on what next level could Pyo Bonerro and France Vagner um take themselves to given the experience, the taste of the playoff experience that they had last year. Um you know, being exited out by the Cleveland Cavaliers, but just themselves because of the young growth that this team exhibited, the defensive proudness that was instilled upon them by head coach Jamal Mosley. And then all of a sudden when you saw that this team kind of got out the gate um a little slow but then started picking things up the most inopportune time where basically three4s of their team arguably three4s of their starting rotation decimated with injuries and all extending themselves literally to where it was almost like NBA All-Star weekend before you started seeing them getting a semblance back of what their original starting five for the beginning of the year looked like. And then you fast forward it. Somehow this team managed to stay afloat, managed to stay relevant and stay competitive throughout the course of that time frame while they’re waiting for their big their heavy hitters Bonerro and Vagnner to come back. And Sean, when you look at this team, you look at a level of resiliency. Um, you also look at a level of like a roster that still was depleted in the sense that you weren’t too sure how Jamal Mosley was going to continue to utilize the roster the way that he did to get them in the best position to really see what level of competitiveness. they were gonna be up against the better teams in the NBA, albeit the surprise of the Cleveland Cavaliers and you see the Boston Celtics and you knew about the New York Knicks, but surprisingly this team Shaw held their own as best as they possibly could. So, what do we make of what took place here with the Orlando Magic and is it a sign of hope? You know what I’m saying? Because I think the one thing that definitely stands out is you know what you’re getting with Vagner and Bon Carroll as the combination. the rest of the roster. However, you’re wondering, is it going to take another year, another season before we see a leap forward or is this year missed because of that? Making us wonder, are the Orlando Magic in prime position to maybe pull the trigger and do something to shake things up given what just happened this past season. Orlando’s in a great situation, I think, especially with those two guys, right? on Carol and Wagner. Uh the brothers as well too, the WNER brothers. Mo got hurt as well, but they have two guys who they can literally build their their team and roster around. Monero’s uh extension is going to probably come up this summer. I won’t kick into the following year, but they’re obviously going to sign him to whatever max I think is going to be available. Then they got some decisions to make because Jayen Suggs already signed his extension, but he was playing masterful, but only played 35 games this year because of the injuries, right? They resigned Jonathan Isaac not too long ago. So, he’s got another couple years on this contract. So, they have the bones of a good team with good pieces, but I think as you’re alluding to, is there a next level, not even just outside of the health, well, but can they get deeper level play creation? Can they get consistent shooting, right? And credit to this team somehow with all those injuries, they were still second in defense this year. So, that shows you that Jamal Mosley’s scheme is elite. you know, with all the people in and out of lineup, they still finish second defensively in terms of defensive rating. But I am concerned about how they’re going to score the basketball and how they’re going to create uh opportunities for themselves offensively outside of Vancar Wagner doing all of that, you know, and more or less kind of just taking turns. They need somebody to really set them up. And if you think Suggs is that guy, if he can be healthy, great. I don’t know if he’s like a a true natural point guard, but I know he’s a natural defender. I know he’d been locking people down. So, I don’t think you’re trying to get rid of him. I think the answer here might be is how how invested are you in guys like Anthony Black and Jet Howard? Uh, or do you try to make a move like again a Cole Anthony kind of an instant offense guy? He’s saved the Magic’s Bacon on plenty of occasions, but is he is he a long-term fit for this? And is there free agents or trades out there that you could potentially make to bolster that thing? But for me, again, long story short, they need they need play creation and they need consistent shooting, which I think again a lot of people are going to say they need those things, but Orlando is is a step ahead of the game because of their elite level defense and those two guys at Vancar Walker. You know, you bring up some really interesting points, Shaw, and I I was going to go one way more about the the player components, but I I I want to take I want to go in this direction real quick with you. I think an interesting setup can be had here, right? Like the Orlando Magic in a way. Remind me a little bit about remind me just a smidge, not not too too much, but remind me a little bit more like what we saw of how the the team was structured with the Boston Celtics back in ‘ 0809, right? Um you saw Doc Rivers was able to utilize a very defensiveminded um but yet a great floor general in a Rajan Rond Rondo who’s you know obviously his Achilles seal is that he could not shoot the basketball with consistency right um and yet he figured out a way to get him to exhibit the traits that were necess neessary to kind of fill in those missing pieces to make this a complete team for them to go on their championship run and go on championship runs, right? Because Rajan Rondo evolved um to become a really solid scorer. He also evolved to be a really solid uh distributor, but he was always a great floor general, always a great defender. He was always a gutty type of player. I feel like the Magic think that they may have something similar in that with Jaylen Suggs where if he leans more into some of those attributes that really got him the starting position, you know, to be one of the starting guards, they may be able to change the way that they may look at this, how they want to go offensively, right? Like I almost feel like and maybe we saw glimpses of this. I almost feel like they really want to see where Bonerro could be as a point forward, right? Maybe his ability to distribute the basketball more and maybe move Suggs to more of like that two role because I felt like Suggs and Contavius Cwell Pope very much are similar type players. just, you know, their build, their the the way that they basically came up, their evolution of their ability to score the basketball, just to me very similar. And even now, you’re not seeing KCP as a starting point guard, right? You’re trying to do that with Jaylen Suggs. And I don’t know if whether or not Jaylen Suggs has that capacity to do it. Don’t know if it’s necessary if you got the kind of ball creating and ball making hand ball handling skills that you get from Bonerro. If maybe you you slide that ball handling responsibility more in his hands and have Jaylen come off the ball more, maybe that might open things up a little bit better. Unless they’re really leaning in on the idea that they want to see him take that next step being the floor general. And if so, that means that he definitely has to he has to spend this off season, you know, being a precise pastor, getting guys in their spots and and things of that nature. And it’ll be interesting to see whether or not Mosley is going to lean on either of those side of Orlando has a lot of young 20some guys under 25, right, that they’re still looking to develop, including Suggs. KCP does not fit that mold. So, while I wouldn’t think Orlando folks said the KCP stuff was a failed experiment this year, I don’t think it yielded exactly what they wanted to from his defense and then his three-point shooting, right? It was really for the three-point shooting that they were trying to bring him over here into Orlando. So go going back to your Suggs point, I think best case scenario for them is probably Anthony Black and Suggs comingle as the one and the two, right? And those guys give you just enough play creation to get Bon Carroll and Wagner their shots and then in other times those guys are trying to create maybe for some for some others. I think that’s like the best case scenario. Now, do you have enough time to let that kind of simmer and cook and get it to where you want Orlando to be where a lot of us thought they were going to be at least a top six seed this season before the injuries? And maybe they still would have been had had all the injuries not taken place. But Black and Suggs with Wagner and Ben Carroll makes some sense. It does. But can you get maybe again the name that I know you you don’t love the name but a Tyus Jones type guy who is a true facilitator through and through to come off the bench right and then back up KCP um at the two as well too and then that gives you some other opportunities when those guys aren’t on the floor and that way you always have at least somebody with a high level of basketball IQ on the floor. Again, it doesn’t need to be Tai Stone specifically, although he is a free agent, but somebody in those in those modes who are not looking. I’m not trying to come here and take shots away from Paulo or Fran or whatever the case may be. I want to see if I can set those guys up and then, you know, maybe that e opens up stuff for KCP in essence to get, you know, back to the KCP we knew in Denver, you know, where that three-point shot was falling in a way that was, you know, prolific. Those are the I think the moves that Orlando can make on the edges because but because they have such so many young guys. I don’t think they’re willing to punt on this especially with the elite level defense that they’ve been playing so far. But that’s how the that’s the route I would go you know if I’m in that front office with Orlando. See if you know give Black and Suggs another year to kind of develop here. You can decline the options on you know some of these guys. I think they have an option on on Mo which I don’t think they would decline. Uh, but there’s some other guys on this roster like, “All right, you know, Gary Harris at this point, like we know what it is, like you can get rid of that $7 million and see if there’s somebody else out there that can make a little bit more sense for you.” Well, so, and I guess to me that part of that is what makes sense, right? Like what is it that you want them to specifically address from an offensive side of things? Like, all right, remember now they have Cole Anthony, right? And I I guess maybe they’re just not buying into the the the fact that they see Cole Anthony as being a starting guard, you know, um for the Orlando Magic. Even if let’s say for example that you establishing the the your notion what you were saying having Suggs and Anthony Black as your backcourt combination, then that means Cole Anthony is going to come in and obviously give you spot minutes and this that and the third. What are you doing now? Yeah. Um, to me, I guess what’s interesting is is this the kind of is this the kind of play where you’re saying, “All right, for what we think we’re going to need, that means you’re probably going to need to get a veteran guy to be able to do those those things that you may not necessarily be coming even from your role players right now.” You know what I’m saying? Well, I I think the veteran the veteran aspect of this team, that’s what KCP was supposed to help bring, right? It’s not it didn’t goite quite as deep as maybe in Detroit was where they got, you know, Malik Beasley and Tim Hardaway and Shruder and all three of those guys and Tobias Harris. All four of those guys were playing plus minutes. Orlando knows it’s a young team that has to develop this young talent. So, but could they use another uh veteran who could actually contribute, you know, to the sauce here? I I think so. And I think it’s a matter of where do you want that person to be? Because if you still believe in the KCP stuff, well then you feel like all right, well that shooting maybe it gets better, like I said, with some other guys who are better suited to create for KCP and spur out some in the corners and the wings, you know, off dribbles, you know, off the bounce rather. Uh so that’s where I think they’re where the focus is going to be in somebody like again a backup point guard that makes sense while developing their current back court and or maybe they can get another wing. And I just don’t think the Cole Anthony situation is something that they need to tie themselves to. I mean, his contract is is minuscule by NBA standards, making $13 million. So, he’s not really hurting anything, but there just won’t be enough minutes to kind of go around if you’re able to bring in some other those supplemental parts, veteran guys who contribute in those areas that you ultimately need, which in essence would then make Cole Anthony not necessarily expendable, but superolous. And I think that’s that’s the decision they ultimately need to make. But he’s still only 24 years old. So like they’re not trying to punt on somebody that’s still that young, right? All right. So two quick points here, Shaw, and I just want to get your perspective on them folks. Um one, as a as a te the team as um as a whole as far as bench play goes, you know, where where is your confidence level on the Orlando Magic with their bench? Do you think that they definitely have room to beef that part of it up? I know we were just talking about getting certain guys to um really help fill out to help execute certain things that you’re still getting from your young players. But I do also lean more into the fact that the Atlanta Magic is a team struggling to score the basketball or struggling when their starters come off the basketball court, they don’t get the same level of productivity that their that they get from their starters. So, should the emphasis really be about bolstering up, you know, that bench, you know, like as as a priority team number one? And then my second point is is, you know, what about this pace of play for the for the game? Is it more well suited that they are a grinded out type of basketball team? Because they’ve got physical players like Avono and Vagner and the Vagner brothers, even Jaylen Jaylen Sucks. They like to be physical. Uh, I don’t know if it’s necessarily that that they like to play a slow down pace type of game, but clearly it seems that they’re they’re most effective in a halfcourt game than it is being more open transition, which is the style of play that you want your young players kind of giving themselves more opportunities and chances to shoot the basketball. Should there be a change, a pivot, or should they double down on that aspect as well? I mean, it’s a it’s it’s meaning in the middle. You don’t want to compromise an elite level defense. Like you don’t want to compromise it. You that’s that’s what you’re making your bones on, right? And they just need to find ways where they can be more offensively potent and less overly rellying on what Vancar and Wagner have to do because in the playoffs, as you saw, defenses can’t key in on those guys. And yeah, they can still get theirs, but if they’re the only ones who are even capable under that playoff spotlight and pressure and then those guys end up becoming inefficient because they just have such high usage, that’s where to me they need to get some offense in there. So, I’ll give you my quick my quick wish list. And these things are not all realistically for all of them. But if I’m the Orlando Magic, I’m kicking the tires on Brook Lopez, right? Again, a stretch five who gives you good good defense as well. So, that doesn’t mean that Mo Wagner is is is you get rid of him just because of the team option. But, you know, Wendle Carter Jr. still young, so maybe keep him, but then go Batazi. Do you need him as well? Right. So I think one or one of those guys if you bring in a Lopez that I said again Ty Jones or whatever it may make some sense for them but then I think also I’d love for them to also look at Caris Levert uh or or Ty Jerome not Tai Jones but Ty Jerome from Cleveland. I think Ty Jerome is probably played himself into a much a much larger contract that Orlando and a lot of teams may not be able to afford and I don’t know why Cleveland wouldn’t try to resign him but that’s somebody I think they could hey you know what if he’s going to cost us you he’s making like 2.8 right now if he gets into the 15 range and then that allows you to get rid of Gary Harris so to speak and maybe Nicole Anthony to make room then that’s somebody who’s playing winning basketball at this point that gives you some offense whether that’s starting or coming off the bench and then you can oscillate that with KCP so those are guys that I think again it’s not a home run out there that they need to make especially with Karen Wagner it’s on the edges that could be really high performing role players again Tai Jones Ty Drone Brook Lopez especially at this stage of his career those are guys who I’d like to see Orlando kind of kick the tires on. All right, good stuff, man. And and listen, again, for a team that went through what it went through, to still break even for the regular season, still be um a playoff uh entrant, you know, for this year’s playoffs and and you know, actually, you know, give the Boston Celtics a run for their money. I I think that it’s safe to say that, you know, the Orlando Magic, you can hang their hat on the fact that they are, you know, one of the scariest teams defensively in the NBA. And if they reach their potential where then their offense can help supplement what they’re already bringing out or what their output gives them defensively, this, you know, could very easily be among one of the top three teams um in the Eastern Conference um without even breaking a sweat. You’re tuned to the baseline. Cali Warren Shaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Coming up, Sean and I dig into the second team we’re putting on a slab and that be the Houston Rockets. Are they ready for takeoff or does Houston have a problem? You’ll find out on the other side. Keep us locked here on the baseline. We are back. Callie Warren Shaw Baseline NBA podcast. Time for us to continue our coveted autopsy report. Next we got on the slab the Houston Rockets. So, we talked about the Houston Rockets a few weeks ago, Shaw. You know, how this team kind of ex like how they how they showed themselves, right? You can clearly tell this is another team taking yet another step. We saw glimpses of their ascension in what they did to catapult themselves from being a middling team that was struggling to learn how to win basketball games to suddenly almost put themselves in the conversation year previous to get into the playoffs. This year they closed the deal, right? And we don’t need to toot horns about predictions or anything like that. We just knew that this Houston Rockets team once they got their proverbial is together, they were going to be a problem for other teams in the NBA and they showed it and they maintained it and they put themselves in the best position possible since the Harden era which has become a second seed in the Western Conference. All well and good. Love it. Awesome. And then you began to see that when matched up against a very savvy uh very veteran laden uh basketball team like the Golden State Warriors that some of their young players um are just not up to snuff as of yet. And I think now when you catapult yourself this quickly, this high a seed, even though you’re not trying to be in the moment, you still have to recognize the moment. And the moment is is that if the Houston Rockets have any opportunity to maintain what they’re doing, they have to address what their current starting rotation makeup look like looks like. And ultimately, Umei Yodoka has to start looking up and down around that bench and saying to himself, outside of Aman Thompson, who I pulled from that bench role to be my starter, I have to look at this and say, I got to hit the reset button to figure out who are my next level guys, who are the next guys that I’m I’m tapping into. when my starters have to come off the uh have to come come out the game and have to help maintain a lead or help us extend a lead. Um which is something they clearly struggled with in that series against the Golden State Warriors and at times clearly struggled through courses of when they were trying to put themselves in that two seed position throughout the course of the regular season. Yeah, really interesting conversation that we’re having here because Houston is a lot like Orlando in terms of that they’re defensive oriented. like that is what they they hang their hat on. You still struggle though to see uh can their elite level offensive guys create elite level offense in the playoffs. And their answer to that in this year’s round was a resounding no. And having to rely on dimminionative but you know strong Fred Fred Vanble Vleet for the primary aspects of their offense this this play playoffs run was proved to be problematic. Chenun, especially against elite level defender like Draymond and so forth. While he got his numbers, they weren’t efficient and he wasn’t able to have the same level of just um offensive efficiency throughout the course of the playoffs as he did in the regular season where he was even able to initiate offense. I think at times that brings us back to Jimmy Green. And you know, I said on our last show that they wanted to at least see what he would do in the playoff under the brightest of of the lights. could he be the guy, you know, alongside Van Vlad and Shangun to to make things happen? And in this year’s playoffs, the answer was a resounding no. And that, I think, allows them to really say, all right, well, we need to make a change here that puts us in in the space in essence to be uh competitive with a true number one guy, a men, listen, we all know that that guy is going to be is pretty much untouchable at this stage of his career. Um, and he’s somebody who they want to be the lynch pin, I think, of what they’re doing alongside whatever book ends you think that may ultimately be. But I think Houston has the answers they need now, especially when it comes to Jaylen Green and even Jabari Smith to a lesser degree. It’s like, all right, do we have the number one offensive option on our team? No. Can they consistent? Can they go out and get one? They absolutely can. And they have to rely on Udoko’s ability to create a defensive culture. So that’s why I think they’ll be willing to sacrifice some of these parts. So let’s go through their assets really quickly of guys that they could potentially move if they wanted to get whatever name out there. And Giannis has been bantered about. KD’s been bantered about, but it could take a Jaylen Green. It could take a Jabari Smith. They have multiple first round picks over the next couple years. Reed Shepard didn’t even get off the bench for them. And that’s somebody a lot of teams are coveting out there. Cam Whit Moore and maybe even Tory East. all some combination of those players could be moved to get a true star. Not in the way that that Orlando is because Orlando feels like they have that in Karen Wagner. Houston does not feel that they don’t feel like they have a bank even level guy on there. So that’s why they’re sniffing around the KDs and even the Giannis’s of the world. Uh and they have all the assets they need in essence to make that happen should they want to. So man, this is such an interesting conversation. Let me ask you this real quick. You don’t think Ahmed Thompson could be that guy? It depends on the timeline, right? So, if you want to stretch this out, three years maybe. You know, does he consistently work on that jump shot and become like an elite level slasher with a, you know, respectable mid-range? Uh, possibly. But each year you’re you’re kind of like you you just don’t know what other teams are going to do. So I think you have a certain level of a formula right now that puts you right in the thick of this. They were second in the Western Conference ran up into a veteran championship laden team in in Golden State and got ousted for the same reason we just outlined. So yes, can a men be that? But can a men be that right next year? No. And I think you want to continue to show him maybe the way and get another veteran level guy that can maybe even help him, you know, develop his offense. Uh that could get him to that next level. and then maybe it’s passing the torch off to like, “All right, bro. I’m I’m out of here.” And Nianis is not, you know, anywhere near at the end of his career if that’s the route they go. But if K if you believe the KD rumors and KD rumors are all over the place, Houston, uh, Miami as well too again, uh, that seems to probably be the most likely because I just don’t know if Giannis will be will be the guy. But ultimately, I I would I would I’m not trading a men for anything right now and then I would allow that to see what I can do alongside another superstar. Yeah. So, I I think what your definition is differs from mine about what I perceive what I what I saw from the Houston Rockets, right? And I think maybe that that it lent itself to having this actual honest conversation about Ume Udoka and the influence that he has on that roster. Ume Udoka to me I feel like exhibits the ultimate team coach, right? He had the luxury of having Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown for a few seasons, right? And the season in which they got to the NBA Finals, I felt like Udoka didn’t didn’t have as much of an impact or influence on the versions of Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown that I think we would have needed to see for them to actually win that championship. And that’s okay because if he was still around, I would be interested to see what kind of influence he would have had on a Chris Staps Porzingis, right? I would have been interested to see what kind of influences he had with Drew Holiday. You get what I’m saying? Like those guys to me are over-the-top guys. Like they’re added pieces to already a championship element. But at the end of the day, my whole point was when Udoka needs to get in the ear of his superstars, what is what is he calling out? What is he calling them to attention to? Right? I think everybody’s focus was so much about the Jaylen Green element, right? My focus was more about Udoka and the influence he had on Aman Thompson, right? Because wasn’t at the beginning of the regular season Aman Thompson was on the bench and wasn’t it numerous games that we were all saying when is he going to start this kid like he can’t be coming off the bench and you’re seeing what he gives you and the Rockets think that they’re going to be able to be just fine still ex like still you know executing in that kind of manner like he eventually knew that he was going to have to put them out there and I think it was like kind of a learning lesson like he made Amen say you got to show me you want to be the starter on on be on the starting roster. You see what I’m saying? And so I I felt like, okay, if you’re going to if you’re going to do that for Amen, is it that you believe that Amen can be your next guy? Right? And I feel like, okay, what about Alfred Sangun? Right? Do you feel like he can there’s another level that he can tap into? He can tap into those guys. And so I said all of this Shaw to say while the emphasis can clearly be on getting a KD or or a Giannis or whomever, are you getting a bonafide superstar number one guy or are you getting a closer? Are you getting someone that is just filling in for certain things that you know is going to take time for the guys like the Almond Thompsons and the Alfred Singons? Because that’s the time that you’re allowing Udoka to really kind of you know kind of have his his finger on the pulse of getting them to that level, getting him to getting them into that particular space. I’m just saying that to me, I feel like the Rockets are a closer away if you keep the contents of this team, not the emphasis being on having a Jaylen Green on the roster. I think he he’s interchangeable. I think he’s the kind of guy that you could actually have come off the bench as a six guy because to me the keys are if you weren’t getting that kind of closer mentality from Fred Van Vleet who showed you that he was capable of doing that when he played in Toronto but is not capable of doing it as a as a Houston Rocket that you’re waiting to see that come out of Al Sangun or coming out of Thompson. I think you see it more from Thompson that level of explosiveness than I do think you see from Sangon. But it’s just interesting where people’s perspective is about what the the priority should be for the Houston Rockets because I do believe if you get a KD I don’t know if you’re getting KD to be the guy. I think you’re getting KD to be the closer for what the Rockets are in seeing from their from their young young players. I can see where you’re going with that in terms of that that delineation. Um especially in in tight games and clutch moments, etc. specifically that does make a lot of sense. right now, Van Vleet ends up taking like the the the lion share of that. Um I just don’t know that they they can’t they don’t have the salary in essence to make it work unless KD is going to take some sort of like ridiculous pay cut, right? And so like that’s not going to happen. Um, but I think, you know, when it comes to like Amen is the guy who they want to keep on this roster, I think at all cost for all the reasons you alluded to, like because he could potentially be the guy who can be uh the the the beginner, the middle, and the closer, I think, at some point and that’s why, you know, he has all the, you know, all the uh the accolades that were were heaping upon him. interesting hap interesting happened over the course of this past week where Van Vleet and Houston agreed to push back the deadline on his on his team option. So that’s $48 million, you know, that they’re kicking back until sometime in June. Now, I don’t know if it’s a sign of anything nefarious. You know, I think Ven would like to be there. He’ll, you know, get probably a extension at a lesser number where he won’t be making $50 million at 32, 33, 34 years old. Uh but it’ll allow him to have some stability I think in Houston long term. But if for some reason that contract negotiation breaks down for whatever reason, you know, then then become Yeah. a lot more money comes off the books and then Houston would almost be it would almost be malpractice for them to not go out there and do something, you know, really super super slashy. So something just kind of keep your your eye on. I don’t think anything nefarious again is going to happen with Fred Vanbley, but you know, it’s I think it’s a decision that kind of helps both of them at least kind of figure out what the timeline can be for Vanble, you know, going in future seasons. But if it breaks down, then Houston has a lot more cash to to spend this summer that they would absolutely need to to continue this runway and the trajectory that they’re on. What’s the one thing that you feel that the Houston Rockets need to address offensively and that and that whatever that that is? Is it a player away or is it an adjustment that has to be made by Udoka’s coaching philosophy? Uh I think they need to more understand the the depth of the bench that they have and you know what who’s on this roster for the long haul. So is Jabari Smith somebody who can be a highle sixman after he came back from injury. That’s the role he ended up having to play. You know, because a man was doing so great, I think in in the starting lineup, you know, do they bring back a Steven Adams while it’s not an offensive move, but again, that’s just the double bigs. You know, you bring that back to kind of shield Shingon a little bit and have him play more for what’s the deal with Cam Whitmore? you know, is this just a guy who they feel like is a knucklehead who’s, you know, a high-powered offense dude, but never really going to be able to crack the rotation and then the aspect of Reed Shepard in year two. Is he a guy who develops that gives you to be to be the Van Vleet backup or is he the Van Vleet apparent like like to me that’s what I’m saying. Houston has they’re in a really great position and you can go from being in a really great position to a very precarious one, you know, with you don’t evaluate the talent right or the talent starts to feel like, hey, I’m not getting enough reps or opportunities in here because Idoka is as demanding as he is as well too. But for me, that’s where Houston really needs to understand who they want to be with the players that they currently have because they have a lot of guys who feel like, hey, I could get burned, I can help, I can contribute. what’s my role going to be in the in in in the championship aspirations of this Rockets team? Yeah, I like where you were going, especially with um the need maybe to figure out a way to keep Stephen Adams because I do think that he could be a valuable asset, albeit they’re not built like how OKC is built. I think Dogginalt has done an superb job in figuring out a way to um you know utilize both Hartinstein and Homegrren right and I think that if you’re Udoka to have a have some kind of similar I’m not saying copycat but something similar in that I think can bold well and and listen you’re going to be matched up against them in the Western Conference. Um, you look at the other teams that that have a very similar uh build in their roster, right? Minnesota Timberwolves and Nas Reed and Rudy Gobear. You know what I’m saying? Like, so this is a thing. You know, Aaron Gordon, Nola Joic, you’re going to have to you’re going to have to contend. You’re going to have to deal with that. And I think what by doing that as well too, it opens up it frees up the ability to allow your most athletic players to go and be athletic. the Ammon Thompsons, the Jaylen Greens. Listen, despite what people might say and think about Jaylen Green, and he’s just not that guy, whatever, you cannot deny the kid’s athleticism. And I keep saying this, you can’t teach what this kid can do when he is locked in, right? Like when I say locked in is he’s leaning on the fact that he has that level explosiveness and everything like that. What he’s lacking is his basketball IQ, his ability to read the game to allow his attributes to really shine through. I think he would be better served that he doesn’t play on on on in that starting that starting lineup because if you really think about it, Shaw, they play too slow for a Jaylen Green. Jaylen Green needs to be up and down the court until he’s able to shoot the basketball with efficiency and effectiveness, right? He’s able to execute it in a in a half court set. I think he needs to get out and run and Adoka’s style of offense and the players that he has around him is not going to allow him to do that. That’s not to say that they can’t evolve, that things can’t change that, but I just genuinely feel like, you know, we keep asking certain players to play a certain kind of way, like it just get up the next day and just go out and do that. It doesn’t happen that way. It takes time, it takes work, and it takes execution. But in the meantime, it doesn’t mean you put what got him into the NBA on the shelf. You know what I’m saying? Like there to me there something can be said when you have a guy who can come in and do what what he is doing. It’s a matter of putting him in the best position possible to go out and execute and do those particular things. Look at you being a Jailing Green apologist. So I think my question to you is like can he exist on this roster if they’re able to do another move? Even if you like demote him, if you will, to and say, “Hey, we want you to be a highle six man and do what you do.” Right. So, I’m sorry to finish your point, that’s the problem. If you’re saying that it’s a demotion, right? If you’re not selling him on the importance of what he’s going to be able to do to come off the bench, what his key role will be coming off the bench or being that six-man, you can’t sell him on that. No, you can’t keep him. No, I’m not. I’m talking to you like they can’t tell him that. There’s not a chance he’ll buy that. I’m saying but again and in the side I mean if we’re if from the media side of like oh they demoted Jaylen Green to this to be a sixman but if they don’t if I’m I guess my question is can they do that and get somebody else you know a a a true closer if you will or is that is that a move you’re just proposing in general with with the roster that’s currently constructed? with the roster that’s currently constructed, he should he should I don’t want to I don’t like using the idea right here for that team to say he should be running the second unit because you really don’t have a second unit. He’s he he argu he can be someone that can give you 40 points, right? Like it’s not like he hasn’t shown you he’s capable of doing it, but it has to be in a space where that shot selection and that ability to go out and do it is allowing him to do it. Meaning he’s going to take the ball to the basket. He’s going to draw contact. Where is it that you’re seeing in that Houston Rockets rotation like that, you know, starting rotation where that’s going to allow him to be able to do that. He can’t do that next to Fred Manfleet. He doesn’t do that well next to Alfred Sangon. So, what I’m saying is, yeah, that’s why you go and get a KD because with KD, he doesn’t have to do that. He doesn’t have to be the most athletic guy for him to take effective shots. You see what I’m saying? That’s a matchup situation that you want to exploit. And it also frees up Fan Fleet and and Sangon. But what happens if if if if KD’s shot isn’t falling? What happens if the Houston Rockets are playing against a team that’s nullifying the effectiveness of their ability to hit those mid-rangers or get those open three looks? That means you’re going to need someone who’s going to quicken the pace up, who’s going to put the defense on their heels at times. You need a change of pace kind of guy. That’s what I’m saying. All I’m saying though is that from financially speaking, you cannot get another highlevel guy there without giving up one of Green, Shenun or or Van Vleet. One or one of those guys has to be gone in essence for a higher level guy that we’ve been talking about in the ilk of KD and Giannis to be on this roster because those guys can only come there via trade. No, I think for Jaylen’s standpoint, from what you’re proposing, would he then be acceptable to a role because a higher level professional is is currently on the roster? So to so to your point from what you just said earlier, if they’re kicking that option, they’re delaying it so to speak with Van Fleet, right? Is there that possibility that the Rockets might be considering saying, “Okay, move off from Van Fleet. Let’s see what we can do in keeping green because you can probably keep him probably on the cheap to still be that that guy to how it he could probably use over the next year or two so that the emphasis and the focus is to go out and get said needed player, whoever that superstar is.” That’s all. subject. So, let me ask you this though. So, do you think Van Vleet at 31 years old and $48 million next year? Yes. With the the resume that he has is more valuable than Jaylen Green at 23 years old and $33 million. So, you’re looking at a difference of eight years in terms of NBA experience, but also a difference of $15 million roughly, you know, between to for somebody who’s eight years older. I hate to I I hate to answer your question with an ambiguous statement, but I I’ll say this. I think it depends on who that next player is, right? Well, I I Well, that there’s a reason I asked the question that way, right? Because I think again, if it’s if it’s if it’s Phoenix or Milwaukee, right, they’re trying to reset their timetable. And at the end of the day, Milwaukee specifically, they’re just going to like, well, yeah, give us the youngest guy who gives us the most like the most the pathway to potentially getting somewhere, you know, later on down the road. I think if you’re Phoenix, maybe that’s different. Maybe you say, “Okay, we can get, you know, Van Vleet in here, you know, for KD and whatever other stuff, not not a one for one.” If that were to be if Houston were to be so bold to get off the the Van Vleet thing. But I think it is depending on which route Houston is trying to go. What are they trying to sniff? And that’s also going to determine like their trade partner. Well, what do they want back in return if you’re trying to get one of those three guys in essence just to make the salaries match? But that’s where I think again when it comes down to Green, who’s on the roster for him to be able to accept a role change uh for the for the betterment of the Houston Rockets, right? So, okay, let me now flip it back to you. Who do you think will put the Houston Rockets roster in the best position to thrive even if they can’t thrive or if they can’t eat between Van Fleet and Green? You get what I’m saying? Like what I’m saying is is Jaylen Green to me is a scoring guard in the sense that I think he needs to score the basketball to feel like he’s got a place with the roster. And maybe that’s not what Udoka truly needs. And maybe that’s why it’s easy to lean to Fan Fleet. However, when you look at Van Fleet and his style of basketball and his style of play, that means if you’re saying Van Fleet is the man, that means you need guys that are patient, guys that are which is why Van Fleet and and Durant clearly could make sense and possibly, you know, moving off from that. But then also again, you do that at the risk of saying you’re not going to have a whole lot to work with from your from a roster perspective once you get past Van Fleet. Where’s your athleticism coming from? Maybe that’s just not the style of basketball that the the Houston Rockets are going to exhibit. You know what I’m saying? You’re not going to tell me that Van Fleet is suddenly going to become uh uh whatchamacallit, Jose Alvarado. You know what I’m saying? Or he’s gonna he’s gonna be racing up and down the court on fast break opportunities and points. He is a he’s a pace kind of guy. He’s a guy that moves at a at a certain pace and and guys can get with him on doing that. The Kadis, the Sangons, and all of those kind of guys. So, that’s the reason why I’m saying it’s going to be interesting because I think if you are the Houston Rockets, you still want there to be versatility in your roster. You still want there to be some kind of a change of pace. Even if there are guys that you have on the roster that might play the same kind of way, you know, they may shoot the three, but one shoots the three pretty quick and one guy, you got to get him set in order to to to to shoot those threes. You see what I’m saying? And so that’s where I’m looking at the Houston Rockets and saying to myself, if you decide to keep a Jaylen Green, you’re keeping him because you recognize that in order for him to be effective for what you need, you’ve got to use him as a change of pace. You can’t force him at this structure in this juncture given the catapult that the Houston Rockets have taken. You can’t force him to suddenly play like how you’re seeing the veteran guys like because even Singon to to a degree is more veteran like than Jaylen Green. You know what I’m saying? Look at what Zingon was doing before Jaylen Green even came into the picture. Um I I think you’re going to get more mileage out of him in a combination with him and Van Fleet than you will see Green in in in Singon. I mean, that’s a possibility. I think the one thing that we can maybe close on to is that, you know, could they entice somebody on a Dylan Brooks, right? And, you know, he makes 20 plus million dollars. So, not a not a ton by NBA standards, but if it’s Brooks and Jabari Smith, you know, for some semblance of packages and picks and so forth, so forth, is there a guy out there offensively that might make sense for them? I think again we’re we’re focusing primarily on the two names that have been rumored, you know, by by Houston to be the most. But we don’t know, especially after this playoffs, like what ends up happening, who becomes available, you know, that might be at a high level offensive uh uh gunner out there for them to to entice themselves or talk themselves into. So, uh all I know is the Rockets have a lot of options, a lot of great opportunities with an amazing runway ahead of them and a great front office now that’s kind of turned things around here from years past. and you do on the sidelines who just knows what he’s doing. Yeah. Well, and you say it with a smile and a wink because it’s it’s apppropo. This is what two two weeks ago or two the second time of three weeks. You’re you’re you’re smiling uh brightly on the I’m excited for them, you know, and excited for the future of a man Thompson. I think if you’re following the NBA, like he’s one of those those Twitter ex darlings, if you will. Everybody just kind of loves his game, you know, until they don’t, you know, something will happen. is like, “All right, well, he hasn’t developed fast enough or so forth.” But right now, he’s on a corporate trajectory where everything he does, we’re just kind of, you know, Google guying over his athleticism, his defense, you know, his tenacity, you know, and and and those are things that are amazing. Um, but at some point, he’s going to have to deliver on the potential, and then it’s going to go and shift the other way. Like, oh, well, how come a man didn’t develop as fast as we wanted to? But right now, I’m enjoying the high. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, we can all enjoy enjoy the high. Yeah. Absolutely. You know what I’m saying? I think I’m think I’m gonna go hit a dispensary right about now. Anyway, good stuff al together, man. Good autopsy report, man. Um, you know, didn’t the scalpel didn’t hit didn’t cut so deep on these teams, man, because they got a nice future ahead of them. You know what I’m saying? So, two two really good young teams um who can utilize maybe some more or different veteran presence than they currently have. Both extremely well coached. They have those defensive principles that a lot of teams seem to be lacking today. So yeah, this was this was a fun one and we’re excited for the resurrection in the 2526 season. Absolutely. Once again, man, we like to thank you and yours for hopping on board with us this week for the baseline. Cali Warren Shaw, I’m sorry, the Warren Shaw. We appreciate you guys. You know we do. And we’ll catch up with you next time. [Music]

Get ready for a deep dive into the NBA’s rising forces! In this episode of “The Baseline,” Cal Lee and Warren Shaw dissect the playoff performances and future outlooks of the Orlando Magic and Houston Rockets. After exceeding expectations and getting a taste of the postseason, what’s next for these young and exciting teams?  

We break down the Orlando Magic’s surprising resilience despite injuries to key players like Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. Explore their elite defensive prowess under Coach Jamal Mosley and the critical questions surrounding their offensive creation and shooting consistency. Can Jalen Suggs evolve into the floor general they need, or should they look to free agency or trades to bolster their lineup? We discuss potential roster adjustments, the development of young talent like Anthony Black and Jett Howard, and whether a veteran presence could elevate them to true contenders in the Eastern Conference.  

Then, we shift focus to the Houston Rockets, a team that secured the second seed in the Western Conference. Led by Coach Ime Udoka, the Rockets showcased their defensive identity but faced challenges in playoff offensive execution. We analyze the performances of Jalen Green, Fred VanVleet, and Alperen Şengün, and debate whether the Rockets have their true number one offensive option. With assets like Amen Thompson and multiple first-round picks, could a major trade for a superstar like Kevin Durant or Giannis Antetokounmpo be on the horizon? Join the discussion on roster depth, the development of players like Jabari Smith and Cam Whitmore, and the strategic decisions facing the Rockets’ front office.  

Tune in for expert analysis, trade possibilities, and predictions for these two dynamic NBA teams!

00:00 – Introduction to The Baseline and Hot Button NBA Topics  
01:00 – Banter and Welcoming Warren Shaw  
01:37 – Focus of the Episode: Autopsy Report on Orlando Magic and Houston Rockets  
04:20 – Autopsy Report: Orlando Magic – Introduction and Season Recap  
07:30 – Orlando Magic: Roster Strengths, Weaknesses, and Future Decisions (Paolo Banchero, Franz Wagner, Jalen Suggs)  
09:35 – Orlando Magic: Offensive Creation, Player Comparisons (Rondo, KCP), and Coaching Strategy with Jahmal Mosley  
12:51 – Orlando Magic: Developing Young Talent (Anthony Black) and Potential Roster Moves (Tyus Jones)  
16:18 – Orlando Magic: Veteran Presence (KCP) and Bench Depth  
19:22 – Orlando Magic: Balancing Defense and Offense, Wishlist for Player Acquisitions (Brook Lopez, Caris LeVert, Ty Jerome)  
22:20 – Autopsy Report: Houston Rockets – Introduction and Season Recap
24:50 – Houston Rockets: Playoff Performance, Offensive Struggles (Fred VanVleet, Jalen Green, Alperen Şengün)  
27:35 – Houston Rockets: Amen Thompson’s Potential and Trade Possibilities (Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo)  
29:01 – Houston Rockets: Coach Ime Udoka’s Influence and Developing Superstars  
33:00 – Houston Rockets: Fred VanVleet’s Contract Situation and Roster Flexibility  
35:10 – Houston Rockets: Addressing Offensive Needs and Bench Depth (Jabari Smith, Cam Whitmore, Reed Shepherd)  
39:12 – Houston Rockets: Jalen Green’s Role and Potential as a Sixth Man  
43:05 – Houston Rockets: Comparing Value – Fred VanVleet vs. Jalen Green in Trade Scenarios  
46:55 – Houston Rockets: Potential Trades Involving Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith  
48:02 – Houston Rockets: Excitement for Amen Thompson’s Future  
49:01 – Concluding Thoughts: Bright Futures for Orlando Magic and Houston Rockets

Follow The Baseline on X: https://twitter.com/nbabaseline
Follow The Baseline on IG: https://instagram.com/nba_baseline

The Baseline Swag: https://tinyurl.com/baselineswag
Subscribe to 19 Media Group: https://bit.ly/3KcZtGe

#nba #podcast #sports #basketball