Should the Cleveland Cavaliers break up the Core 4 this offseason after an early playoff exit?

Should the Cleveland Cavaliers break up the Core 4 this offseason after an early playoff exit?

Yeah guys, as we bounce back into the Cavs, I want to remind you that today’s episode is brought to you by Buckeye State Credit Union. If you’re unfamiliar with them, let me introduce you to the financial friend you didn’t know you needed until now. Buckeye State Credit Union is a local brand that offers a wide range of products from checking accounts to home equity lines of credit and auto loans. They have some of the lowest rates around and are committed to serving Northeast Ohio. The Cleveland location is in Shaker Heights, but there are 5 brick and mortar locations across the state. Buckeye State Credit Union is here to help you make your life easier to make banking more convenient, always putting the customer first, so you leave feeling cared for, valued and respected. Connect simply and adapt. Those are the core values that make Buckeye State Credit Union the right choice for you. For more information, you just have to head over to BuckeyeCcu.org for more information. Buckeye State Credit Union, your money simplified. All right guys, so by the way, there’s, there’s more been some more scheduled weeks real quick before we, uh, move on. The Cowboys hosting the Chiefs on Thanksgiving Day. — It’s an
— interesting game. So the Chiefs play Thanksgiving and Christmas. — They requested
— and they’re going to Brazil week one. Uh, you know, nothing seems to faze them though. Anyway, OK, so. This week I, I am, uh, every, every week for Little League, there’s somebody in charge for the week, like one of the managers. So this is the week that I’m in charge of Little League. So I’ve spent, I’m, I’m at the Little League a lot anyway, but because this week I’m there every, every moment. I must have had 100 people in the last two days. What are the caps gonna do this offseason? What are they gonna do this offseason? What? I said, listen, I gotta talk to Jason and Mike. I don’t know what the hell is going on with the 2nd apron nonsense, but from what I believe is the case is they really can’t do much of anything. Is that the case? or do I have that information wrong? As they are currently constructed, no, there’s not much they can do. So even if the money works, — they can’t trade superstar
— for superstar if the money matches, you can. So what’s the restriction? What is the exact restriction? Go ahead. This is from I’m gonna read this word for this from two paragraphs real quick from John Hollinger’s piece This Morning in the Athletic on the Cavs and what the second apron and restrictions mean. This is from John Hollinger word for word. Unfortunately, in the apron world, every dollar counts, even if ownership is willing and able to shoot money out of a fire hose. The Cavs are $27.3 million over the projected 2026 luxury tax line with only 10 players under contract. Even if they fill those last four roster spots with minimum contracts, the Cavs will be roughly $34 million over the tax and $15 million over the projected second apron line of $207.8 million. Being in the 2nd apron subjects Cleveland to a draconian transitional regime. It means the Cavs cannot sign any free agents for more than the veteran minimum. Cannot make any trades that aggregate salary or take on more money that is being sent out. They can’t combine two salaries to match. Uh-huh, — so they can’t
— trade for Yannis. We said that the other day. We told you that already on the show. — I
— don’t think I was here, so they can’t aggregate money. They can’t take on a single dollar more than they’re sending out. They cannot sign and trade their own free agents. They cannot use cash and trades that incentivize salary dumps. And that calculus is before they spend any money to bring back free agents like Ty Jerome or Sam Merrill or try to add another wing with size or attempt to add another piece by putting their 2031 1st round pick in play. — So
— the only way that they could have in theory traded for Giannis is if they traded a player that is making equal or more money than him. I, I, I don’t think you mentioned the frozen pick — because that’s really important
— and that frozen. I did not make that was later so. If they’re a second apron team next year and by all accounts right now they’re going to be their second round pick is frozen in 2033, which means you can’t move it, can’t trade it, so that leaves them 2031 and 2032 they could trade one but not both. First round pick first round pick, OK, so you can move one of those and that’s it. And then if you stay in the 2nd apron for I think it’s 3 years in a row, that pick drops to 30th automatically. Even if you finish with the 2nd worst record in basketball, your pick would drop to 0. And it’s all those years out to be even more punitive because you’re probably not gonna be very they figure you’re not gonna be very good at that point because your contention windows now so they’re like the owners have really locked themselves down on this. Yeah, so. I wonder why they did. I guess they did. You can’t trade the money in the aggregate because they’re like that team’s probably already good. We don’t want them trading two mediocre players for a great player. Yes, they’re they’re trying to, they’re trying, they’re stamping out super teams. They’re trying to prevent owners from being able to build super teams. That’s why you can’t aggregate. If you reach the 2nd apron and you’re not championship capable, you’re — completely
— said on the show 100 times, you have to be whole when you get there, and that’s what, so there’s like. When Phoenix got there, Phoenix just had an owner and Matt Isa who they all go through this. They’ve got the big, you know, what energy going on, and they just spend like crazy give me stars, give me stars, completely failed and but they had so many holes on the rest of the roster you can’t operate that anymore because you have no levers to pull to make your roster better. If you go into the 2nd apron, your roster better be whole, and the Cavs were probably gonna be a 2nd apron team next year, probably. And the hunter trade and sure they’re gonna be 2 and they’re OK, you know, when they made the deal, they were OK with that because it felt and looked like a pretty whole roster and if you bring, if you’re able to bring back Ty Jerome, you know, you can keep all of the key pieces of this. — You keep your top 6 together if you bring back
— and, and you have, I’ve said, you know, we’ve talked about this on the show. You have a 3, I think you have a 3 year window. You had this year and you have 2 more years and then for sure you gotta blow this thing up. I’ve had people in the league tell me, nope, they got 1 more year. It’s it’s this year. And next year and that’s it. — Now it really
— what’s the reason? Are they saying that because of unhappiness from maybe Donovan? No, no, no, no, no, no, financials, — the punitive of tax
— penalty, for example, in the second apron, if Ty Jerome signs a $10 million contract with the Cavs, — it cost Dan Gilbert 62
— million dollars. $62 million. I mean, does he care about that? For that’s one player, but when you add it up for the whole rock, OK, well, let me ask you this. I, everyone says Dan and Dan will spend that’s a lot for Jerome. The last year LeBron was here, they were a, um, a repeat offender and the taxes were more punitive, and they absolutely affected some of the decisions they made. I think they, I think they moved on from Andy. No, was it Andy? No, I can’t remember now, but they made roster moves that year. To try and cut salary because it, it and now the taxes are even more punitive than they were 10 years ago. So yes, he will spend for sure. Dan wants to win. He wants to win without LeBron. It’s imperative to do this because right now his legacy is he won with LeBron. He wants to win one without him, so he will spend, but all of these guys have a, have a pressure point where it just becomes too much. So let me ask you guys this I, I think a couple of weeks ago we all thought that this team could eventually win a championship. Yes, I, I call me prisoner of the moment if you will. I don’t think this team is currently constituted can win a championship. Do you guys still believe that they can win a championship is currently constituted? That’s not an easy question. — It’s
— not it’s hard. One thing real quick, if they want to get out of the second apron, there are ways to maneuver out, but it would require Isaac Coro makes 11 million and Dean Wade makes, I think, 6.5 million, so you could cut that 17.5 million. But you, I mean, you can’t cut it. You have to find where, where you gotta find a team with cap space and trade it into space. Both of those guys are not free agent. Uh, well, — Aorro I know is 2
— more years and Dean is 1 more. Dean, so you’d have to trade them both for essentially nothing. Well, — you’re just trying to get those’t the money
— have. Match when you make a trade, it does, but like non-guaranteed like there’s ways to do if a — team has cap space you can trade
— into cap space, — not a lot of teams have cap space unfortunately
— how much, uh, and it’s it’s also important to point out Isaac Coro who’s gonna pay $11 million for Isaac Coro, he’s not a hot commodity. Especially when you have nothing to, — so you would sweep the trade that’s
— where you have to give a pick and they don’t have — second round
— picks it would be just somebody bailing them out, which, yeah, it’s, it’s so you could dump them in theory you can dump Isaac, you can dump Dean. And Dean, I think actually has a little bit of value because he’s on an expiring deal, 6.5 million. It’s not a lot of money. Big long athletic can shoot 3s, can guard, defend. We’ve seen in 3 years he has been great in the postseason, but I think Dean would be more appealing than Oora would on the open market. Isaac, I, I don’t, I don’t know who’s gonna take on that contract, but theoretically you could cut that money, get out of the second apron, and operate as normal. And how, what was the projected uh over the second apron they were, I think it’s 15. Right now, yeah, let me pull it back — because
— they’re projected 15 million over the second apron, and that’s with 10 players on contract and that’s, so that’s without Ty Jerome. That’s without Ty Jerome and 3 other league minimum. So in theory to get under the apron, you’d have to let Ty Jerome walk. — You’d have to trade Dean
— Wade. By the way, you’re losing Sam Merrill too. — He’s a
— free so you’d have to lose. You have to let Merrill walk, let Jerome walk, trade A Coro, trade Dean Wade if that’s somebody’s willing to take those guys, especially Aorro, and, and then replace them with veteran minimum players and then they’d be under, but That you would have traded your entire bench, yeah, uh, you know, — so that’s why you’d have 6 legitimate
— players. So I’m, that’s why I’m saying theoretically they can get out of the second apron, yeah, or I mean you go for it one more year, OK, or you trade Jared Allen. And but even that doesn’t get you out of the, it doesn’t get you out because you’re taking, you’re not trading for nothing, right? You’re acquiring money for same thing if you trade Darius Garland, so they are a second apron team next year so. OK, so, so, so, real quick before you go, yeah, the caveat with all the discussions we have this offseason is does the trade make sense and is it financially possible under the second Aron, because a lot of these things in papers, on, on paper, in theory sound awesome. Yeah, package Darius and Allen for Giannis. I don’t think that gets you Giannis anyway, but like. That that that’s not actually. That’s the thing, guys. It is not. Obviously you can’t trade for Giannis, even if they could. I don’t think they have the weapon. — Jimmy has
— they traded Giannis here. — You stole my
— line. You did that. You stole my last night in the article, so I I I I it up for the Browns. No, I texted him that the other day. I said, you think Jimmy is gonna help deliver a championship to another Cleveland? — Doesn’t he
— owe it to Cleveland? Yeah, — you convinced him
— he screwed the team, the football team. — You
— convince him of that. OK. There’s 0. Matt Isa is not sending Kevin Durant to Cleveland, right? Jimmy Haslam is not sending Giannis to Cleveland. — So take out the fact that it’s financially
— impossible. The owners of those teams are not going to help the Cavs. Makes sense. Giannis, you can’t do anyway, so it’s irrelevant, even if, even if you Durant, you can’t do either. Durant, OK, so. Yeah. I, who’s a, do you guys have a realistic target? Like, is there somebody, and let me ask you this before we get to those targets. Are the Cavs better off? And I don’t know that there’s that many guys like this anymore because obviously the game has changed. Are the Cavs better off? Replacing Darius Garland with a true pass first point guard. — I know there’s not that many guys like in the NBA
— today. I don’t know. Is there anyConnell? Like, no, you don’t trade Darius another point guard. You trade Darius if you, if you go this route, yeah go ahead. — You trade Darius and you make Donovan your point guard for a
— wing, yeah, right. And this way, I don’t think there’s a massive market. I, I was talking to an executive with a different team as I was driving, as I was walking to the door as I was driving in this morning. And I said I don’t think there’s much of a market for Darius at 40 million. He said, I don’t either, but there’s other teams that like him. OK, um, I don’t know. I’m not gonna sit here and tell you what you get for him. I don’t know, and I don’t even know necessarily, and the point he was making is it’s really hard to win with two undersized guards, and the Cavs are finding that out. I think Jarrett is the move. If you don’t think they should try to trade both. Uh, no, I would, well, no, no, I would trade, Darius wants to be here, right, but the, the only reason I’m saying that, Jason, is, is. Evan Mobley’s got to be at worst 2nd in shot attempts on this team, doesn’t he? And can that happen if Darius and Donovan are both here? It can, but it takes a concerted effort to, to do that. Like everyone has to be bought in on that. Um, I, I would move Jarrett, but the other point. Uh, I was talking this morning on the way in. The guy I was talking to works in the front office said the Cavs may be the first test case under this new. Second apron life like Boston is the first, but Boston has a championship, so they can say, hey, we won, right, we’re done. We’re out, especially with Tatum now like Boston may get out of the tax entirely, because what, — what are they playing for at
— this time especially when Tatum I missed the whole season actually, — and they got there’s no
— might. He’s out. — They
— gotta get under the luxury tax. They’re not a repeat offender he is healthy they start to build it up again. So will the Cavs, so his point was. This is the Cavs might be the first team in this new world to really be put to a decision of do we forge ahead in this and keep going for it and try to win or do we pull back and back off and and try to retool it’s, it’s, there is, it’s hard because there’s no there’s no road map for this. Don’t you think they have to go make some change whether it’s Allen or Garland? I don’t, I don’t go for it at least one more time. Yeah, I don’t think. I wrote about it this morning. I don’t think this team is tough enough, period. And you can, you can apply that to on the court, physicality on the court, getting pushed around. You can apply that to injuries. I just don’t think they’re tough enough. You’re right on and. Jared is part of the problem with that, yeah, and this is 3 years in a row, and I hate to keep say we talked about this morning. I keep saying Jared Jarret, it’s not like I’m trying to blame Jared Allen for 3 years of failures and I’m not, but he’s the one piece I think you can most easily break off. You can get something for. I think he’s got value. He’s under $20 million contract for one more year and then it jumps to $30 million. And with this 3 years in a row, the postseason, we know what happened 2 years ago against the Knicks where he said the lights were too bright and. And Mitchell Robinson just absolutely abused him and then last year with the whole fiasco over the rib and now this year 11 points and 6 rebounds in 2 games, the last two games in the series. I just think that’s the piece. I, I don’t know how you bring them back. I saw that last year though and they brought him back, so that’s where I would start is breaking that off and seeing if you can get some more sides and another shooting wing for him. It’s hard to trade a non shooting big for a for a wing who can shoot. It’s really hard and I can’t give you a name right now. We’re. Less than 24 hours. I wanna see how the rest of this plays out, but I mean. You think the Lakers would want Jared Allen? He’d be a perfect fit on the Lakers, right? So who, but is there somebody from the Lakers that Rui Hatchamura? But I don’t know. Does that, does that make you? I, I don’t know enough about him to know if that makes me excited. And also I’m not sure they had the money. I think the money would work on that. I’m not sure. Is LA a second apron team? No, guys, I can, I can’t, I, I don’t know how I, I, I know it’s the job. I don’t know how I can watch the Cavs play in the regular season next year. How am I supposed to do that? I think it’s a lot of people are gonna feel that way. Don Donovan said at his exit meeting today, we can go 82-0 in the regular season. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter and he’s right in terms of the future of of this team. You said you had a player in mind, if anyone wants to stand on their soapbox and say you have to blow this thing up. I have nothing to, I, I, I, I have no defense against that and if someone wants to stand in a soapbox and say they should run it back. Bad luck, whatever reason, injuries, all that they deserve another chance with the coach 2nd year with Kenny. Give it one more shot because you know the bill’s coming and eventually it’s gonna have to break up and can you make a marginal trade that actually makes you better. I’ll hear that argument. I don’t, I don’t know how I, it’s too soon after they meet after that for me to have like a definitive either way. I will say making trades just to make a trade oftentimes is a step back. If it’s not a tangible upgrade at either position, which is gonna be hard to do, and that’s my point, and that’s why I. I hear the credence and once again I don’t know how I feel, but I’ll hear the argument of Boston don’t have Tatum next year. We won 64 games in the regular season. Maybe they just need another. I hear it. I’m not saying I feel either way. The one name that I love, and I’m not sure this makes sense from their side, but Houston has a plethora of wings, and they got a bunch of dudes who have been coached by IME. I may is in my opinion, the toughest coach in the NBA. Jason, if you disagree, by all means tell me there’s another tougher coach. He only wants players, he won’t play you if you don’t meet a certain level of toughness on and off the court. And Tari Eason is a guy who’s been buried, not necessarily buried on their bench, doesn’t play nearly as much as he could on a bunch of different teams because they have 456 wings that are all really good. 67, long arms, relatively good shoot, not an elite shooter, but an absolute hound on defense. So what’s something with Allen. And if they decide to go away from Steven Adams and they like playing that two big lineup with Alpern Shanggoon and Steven Adams in the playoffs. Jared Allen for Eason. I don’t know if the money I have to do a little more fit digging out and getting the exact like details, but Tari Eason’s a guy that I think stylistically attitude wise he brings, I don’t wanna use the word junkyard dog because that had its time and place in Cleveland it’s kind of been washed out. He ain’t a dude you wanna see in an alley late at night. Let’s just put it that way. Like, tough dude, ain’t afraid to scrap it up. He’s built just like DeAndre Hunter, little, little, not as long lengthwise and waistband, but a little more physical, and he hounds dudes for 94 ft. That’s a guy that I think you could bring in if the price is right. I’ll look up his contract if you filibuster for a second. — He averaged 12 points a game
— last year. He’s he’s legitimately good play offense too legitimately good player, 3 in the wing. Emphasis on the defense and just the attitude change. What do you do? What are you doing, uh, let’s say you make that trade. Who else is playing center for the Cavs? One of your vet minimum guys you gotta find is. You’re back. Like just some scrappy dude who can play some defense and you know do a you know give you a putback or two when you need it and that’s what you’re doing. I mean, in theory you’re closing games with Mobley, Hunter, Eason, Mitchell, and Garland like that that’s your closing five. You guys don’t think they should trade Garland at all, — or
— not a trade have that conversation. Yeah, I’m, I’m willing to hear any. I’m open to any discussions. My, my approach to the whole Cavs offseason, I’m willing to listen. But I’m not quite sure if the value for a point guard that makes $40 million a year who’s been injury plagued in back to back postseasons, and even though he had a great regular season, his postseason numbers are not the same as what they are in the — regular season
— and there’s questions about his — maturity and
— toughness at $40 million. — I’m just not sure what you’re getting back
— that. Well, you gotta be, I mean the Cavs need to be open minded too. Uh, uh, the right offer for Darius Garland, I think now you’re right, they may ultimately there may not be an offer that’s worth making, but they have to be open minded to it. The, the east is wide open. It’s wide open, especially with what happened the other night in Boston or New York with Boston. I mean, for as, as awful as it feels today and it feels awful. They’re not that far away. They’re still right on the precipice. It doesn’t feel that way, but they are. They’re still a really good team. — But
— Jason, the one thing, I mean, you said — they’re not tough
— enough, right? They’re not. How is that gonna change with with if you don’t make changes to the roster? I agree. How is that gonna change? I agree, but I don’t think that it’s like a blow it up scenario. No, I agree, of course, yeah, I think it’s a you make one tweak if it’s the right tweak, yeah. You know, I, I think let’s talk to somebody about this last night. We talked about on the show when, when we had Jared Greenberg on. Yeah, I believe Donovan is obsessed with winning. He’s consumed by it. He’s farther along that path than a lot of the other guys in that locker room, right? And I don’t know how you catch them up because that brings toughness inherently right when you are when you will cut off your leg to win a game. Which that’s the point Donovan’s at because he’s made all the money he’s made all the all NBA teams. The only thing left, the only hole he has is winning and some of these other guys, I think they’re still earlier in their careers, they’re still a little bit younger, they maybe haven’t had some of the devastation and heartbreak that Donovan has. They’re just not at that point and some guys frankly never get there like they just don’t, but when you find that inside of you that. I have to win. Nothing else will satisfy me. That goes a long way in bringing out toughness and all that other stuff that we’re talking about. I have, I have the deal. I, I have the official deal and shout out to my guy Luke at Real Cavs fans. He texted me this last night. We were going back and forth. His money projection spot on. The Rockets are losing Steven Adams. I mentioned that before. They like playing the two centers together with Shanggoon and Steven Adams. Jared Adams are an up over Steven Adams. Tari Easton and Jabari Smith Junior. They make $19. They make $20 million on the dot. The finagle that last dollar there. — Jabari Smith was a high pick who has
— 3rd overall pick. He’s 22 years old, 4 or 5 combo that can shoot a little bit. Hasn’t reached his potential. But also it has been in a weird situation in Utah where they have 38 dudes. Eason’s a guy I love that gives you two wings. There’s your backup center right there. That’s the deal I’d make right now, you know, I, I think that makes the Cavs better. — The Cavs and more
— versatile, and it may like the Cavs may be in a situation where you make a trade and like maybe they make it, maybe they trade Darius Garland for two players because you can do it the opposite way, right? You could trade, you can’t. You can take two players for the aggregate for Garland. You just can’t trade Garland and another player for Giannis that way. But like maybe they’re better off getting two players who are not quite as, not as good as what I just, yes, and, and. Man, I, they just need to, they need to bring in some tough guys, some guys with who are as obsessed with winning as, as Donovan is. They have to find their Marcus Smart for Christosingas in, in whatever form that that looks like, and we’ve talked about it before, but in the old, in the old world prior to the 2nd apron and, and then that whole yeah. It used the old adage in the NBA used to be 4 quarters don’t equal a dollar. If you’ve got a $1 player, you never trade a dollar player for 4 quarters because you’re not gonna be as good and I’ve asked a couple of people like. Is that still true? And the answer has been like, I don’t, we don’t know yet like we just don’t, it’s just too new but it this because I said earlier like I asked um. Is the 2nd apron here to stay. And the answers I’ve gotten back is, oh yeah, this isn’t going anywhere and I keep screaming the owners made a bad deal and the response is who do you think negotiated the deal? And I said how did like Balmer and Lacob and those guys. Allow this to happen and the answer was they’re the ones that wanted it to happen because it’s a lot easier to not have to shell out the money and throw your hands up and say, oh sorry, — it’s
— it’s the just let Paul George walk for that exact reason. Yeah, it turned out to be potentially a genius move because Paul George was absolute doggie do to this year. It’s gonna be fascinating and You know, in terms of that analogy of the four quarters being worth the dollar, I guess it depends what dollar it is, right? Like, uh, a LeBron in his prime is a different dollar than Darius Garlett, you know, and you can argue is Darius really a max player and you like I’ve had teams tell me. We don’t think he’s a max player, right, but with the position the Cavs were in, you kind of have to give. But like it’s just like Evan last year you could you could have argued, well, do you really have to give Evan a max deal? Has he really proven to be a max player? Well, that’s just where the league is at right now, and especially in a market like Cleveland, and we wrote it last year. His agent told him, Don’t bring him to Cleveland. They brought him anyway. Well, guess what? He’s happy. Yeah, he’s good, right? — But you
— but you gotta you gotta pay for max whether he’s worth it or not. You gotta pay that, right? And, — and with Da and
— luckily he’s evolved and yeah, sure. I just think like, I could be wrong, but it’s got to be the right two players. I just think turning. Darius into two good like turning Darius was a — borderline all-star or all
— you know he’s an all-star. He’s a multi-star. — So Darius was an all-star
— not every all-star is a max — player
— into two good players who are not quite all stars. If that’s realistic, if it is, could be good. It’s more than I’ll, I’ll do way more deep diving on potential trades this summer. It’s a lot easier to find salaries that match 20 million than find salaries to match 40 million because the days of mid mid range mid-price guys don’t exist for Jason’s point. When these young guys get a chance to sign their contracts, they get these max deals, and then veterans who are on the free agency market because of the apron now are making less and less. So you’re saying it’s gonna be hard to trade Darius because he’s making $40 million. I, yeah, I think that’s a legitimate roadblock. I’m not saying there are teams who are interested in him, but it’s not like they’ve got 20 calls coming in, right, right, right, OK. I just think it’s hard to get, it’s gonna be fascinating. It’s hard to get the $40 million in salary with 23 guys when. Guys are either making 33 million or like $10 million. You see, you know what I’m saying, like, like there’s not a lot of 12 14s to add up. The add up can’t be over $40 million. It’s a tricky thing, but I, and I don’t know if the Cavs care about this, and the Cavs do well attendance wise, but if they want anybody to like be excited about the regular season, you’ve got to change the roster up now. That’s not the reason to do it, but yeah, you can’t you can’t let that affect you. But, and I, I think they need to change the roster anyway. I, I just don’t like the idea of bringing back the same roster again, but uh. Well, can I show you guys what I told Jason this morning and we pull up the core forward net ratings. We look at the regular season versus postseason success, right? We could argue about like what it is that isn’t working, but we have tangible statistical proof now that in the playoffs this iteration of what they’re doing just hasn’t had the same success in the regular season. Over the three playoffs they played together, the core 4 has played only 260 minutes in culmination as a whole. Look at the net ratings. Barely above a 1 in 2022 23. That’s the minus 6.3 last year. That’s the two series combined this year. — It was just a partial magic series because Jarrett missed the entire
— there you go. So that’s so it’s just a couple of games and then this year I know Darius missed, but this is just what all four played the core forward to Net -11. If you want to be in the plus, anything in the minus means it didn’t work. If you look at just the guards. The Darius Donovan combination, which we’ve seen work at strengths. Next graphic whenever you’re ready, we’ve seen it work in times. We’ve also not seen it in the playoffs, worked to the same level it’s worked in the regular season. So it’s gotten worse every year. Yes, and then this one Darius missed part of the, — the series and when he came back they got smoked in game 4 when both those played
— that that’s 2 games this year is 2 games of Miami and 2 games 3 games of Indiana last year. Donovan missed the end of the Boston series, but they played the rest. It was a -4.9 and in 22, 23 it was a -1.6 and then the bigs, the combination of Jarrett and Evan Mobley, same thing. In the series against the Knicks, they actually had a positive net rating ever so slightly. Last season the few games Jarrett played with Evan, it was -3.1, and this year against Indiana. Those two on the court together in over 460 minutes in totality have a negative net rating. We know these lineups work in the regular season. There’s not a lot of evidence that say it works in the postseason, and that’s why I think the Cavs, Kobe Altman, Kenny Atkinson, anyone in that front office, Mike Ganzey, Dan Gilbert have to be open minded to any and all discussions as long as it doesn’t involve Donovan Evan. Those two are off the table. Yeah, sure. Everyone else, I think is a tradable part this summer. Yeah, absolutely they should be listening to offers on any player besides those two. And as far as we know, Donovan’s still happy, right? Oh yeah, — he said last night how much he loves playing in this arena and
— the crowd was awesome. I mean, the way the crowd, I hate, by the way, I hate, I mentioned this to you last night and all fan bases do this now. Refs you suck, chant that is beyond lame. That is, that is beyond lame. Yeah, they all do you at all. Fan base to do it, but, but when Donovan missed those first two free throws and the crowd was like — trying to
— it got loud that was pretty cool that I know he missed that third free throw, but that was cool. The whole crowd was like, we love you. Come on, you know, — we believe in you when they
— were making that comeback and did you stay down in the press room the whole game? OK. First quarter electric, 2nd and 3rd quarters until Ty had that last little stretch in the third it’s dead. It was, it was dead and they weren’t making shots. I don’t blame when they cut it down to 1 86 87, it got loud. I’m talking like loud, loud, and you could feel it was on the precipice of just an absolute explosion. The Cavalanche machines, Jason, which you can mention in a sec, were about to be fired off for the 2nd time in the playoffs. They could never tie the game up and they never took the lead and I kept looking at her up saying, hey, one stop, one bucket changes the entire momentum and if that had happened, it would have been an opportunity for Cleveland to kind of seize the game, take back the the the crowd control, and use some of that energy to help them close out because they just didn’t have a ton of energy. We saw them leaving every jump shot short and whenever it came down to that one point possession. Or a 3 point game that they couldn’t get that stop they couldn’t get that bucket. Donovan made 3 3s down the stretch, but then he missed 3 free throws. They were so close, so close I just couldn’t finish it, but Jason, I do think it’s worth mentioning your little Cavalanche story here before we move on. Uh, I just, uh, everybody knows that they love the Cavalanche. uh, Dan leaned into it. Dan loved it and so they installed these. Cavalanche machines that would blow confetti or fake snow or whatever into the lower bowl, they paid $500 more than $500,000 for these Cavalanche machines used it once in the playoffs. — They got to use it one time
— and are they gonna stick around for next year? It was game 2 against Miami when they made the 11 threes. I’d want more than one blow off for my $500,000 — investment
— pause. — Oh my
— God, yeah, but real quick, Donovan, Donovan last night — we really talked about
— his press conference was interesting. Yeah, for 8 minutes talking about y’all gonna write some shit about us and said that a few times and y’all gonna you know write us the FF yeah and it was like it was a different tone. And I’m, I’m sure it’s just I wrote that he, he went through like all five stages of grief in 8 minutes from anger to bargaining denial, like he, he hit them all. — I mean what does
— he expect? No, he, he. I took it as you’re gonna write us off and I can’t blame you. That that’s how I took it. I, I, — I don’t think he was saying it as I
— don’t know, and I had somebody say he was filming his next Adidas commercial like you wait and see, — that’s gonna show up in an Adidas commercial
— so during his, uh, exit meeting today he said he hasn’t slept. He said it doesn’t matter if we go 82-0 next season, none of it’s gonna matter. The only thing we can do is control in the postseason. Uh, that’s why I got the impression he was saying like you’re gonna write us off and I, I, I have nothing to, you know, — nothing to come back against until
— next April. Every time I would talk to him about where they were at the success they were having, and he kept saying we ain’t won anything yet. We ain’t done anything yet. He was already focused on we have to do this in April, May and June like yes this is great, yes this is fun. Yes, I’m glad you all believe, yeah, but we have to do it when it matters and, and ultimately he knows that the great players in the NBA are judged by winning championships. That’s it. And he’s never even gotten to a conference final. Yeah, uh, he said real quick I wanna read one more quote. Um, his message to the team this summer, it’s gonna be a loud summer. We gotta use it all as fuel. Danny went on to say Donovan went to went on to call what happened an embarrassment. An embarrassment the team needs to face and can’t run from him, so not like he’s shying away from the disappointment that we all feel today he’s right and like. I Yeah, I’ve said 100 like I’m dead inside. I don’t care. This is an easy team though to like. It’s an easy team. It’s an easy team to root for. My respect level for him in this series has gone up, not that I didn’t before, but I’ve just been really impressed with the way that. He, he’s just consumed by this and yeah, he’s, I kept saying, hey man, when you can’t screw around with a calf because that can lead to an and — he just fought through it and you knew he was gonna play
— last night. Oh, you knew it, yeah, because he’s a warrior. There is no doubt. So you can, and, and he’s gonna get knocked for it. He never made it out of the 2nd round. This is 8 years now, haven’t made it out of the 2nd round. I don’t know how you can. Put that last this series on him you can and you know we’ve talked about it before like they’re playing with two under sized guards in the backcourt and smaller guards can only take you so far. That’s why it’s so imperative that Evan becomes the guy because I think you saw in real time. What happens? And yeah, he was playing on one leg, but these guys can only take you so far but they physically aren’t built like LeBron, Giannis, Kevin Durant. They can’t carry that type of load. They can’t put an entire franchise on their back and take you to the finals. How much more evidence do you need? And that’s not a knock on him. He’s giving you everything he’s got, but you can only ask a player to give you what he’s capable of giving you, and Donovan has given you that. But it’s only going to take you so far. Eventually if this team is going to win a championship like Mike and I have said for years, it has to be van. The way that this team is constructed and there’s no, there’s no other big superstar trade coming in here we just laid out why it has to be Evan. And well, it’s gonna be a lot, it’s gonna be a fascinating offseason for the Cavs. There’s no doubt about it. Do they have any draft picks, 2nd round pick, anything? They have 2 1st round pick. — They have a 2nd
— round pick. So next year they’ll have a 1st round pick, right? Yes, but it’ll be — a swap on a
— swap. So 3rd worst between Utah, Cleveland, Atlanta. Atlanta, they’ll have the worst pick of those three, — which better
— be theirs. It better be there. And then for the they don’t control their draft for the next 5 years. They lose control of the draft for the next 5 years. They are just now starting to pay Donovan Mitchell Price, the Donovan Mitchell Price, yes, in draft picks. OK. Alright, we’ll leave it there, — but at least he’s
— still here. — At least Donovan still
— that’s true. — That could have been
— a catastrophe.

The vibes around the Cleveland Cavaliers right now are grim. After putting up a 64-win season that had many fans dreaming of an NBA championship run, they saw their season come to an unfortunate end after they lost their second-round series to the Indiana Pacers in five games — with the Cavs unable to push for a 3-1 comeback after suffering a 114-105 loss on Tuesday night. This was supposed to be the Cavs’ year; after beginning the season by winning 33 of their first 37 games, anything less than an NBA championship would have been disappointing. But not too many could have foreseen this complete collapse from this season’s best team in the Eastern Conference, as they completely broke down against a Pacers team that snatched their chain. | https://cavsnation.com/news/cavs-news-kenny-atkinson-breaks-silence-on-saddening-end-of-clevelands-season

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