Who’s to Blame for the Nuggets Shortcomings This season? | DNVR Nuggets Podcast
[Music] [Applause] Get down. [Music] Oh, baby. The off season. The off season. The off season ended. The season ended, man. It’s the off season. I’m actually really excited for the show. What is up, everybody? Welcome to the Americans podcast presented by Nobody, but still happy to do it. In the Toyota lounge room by your front range Toyota Source, David, the official vehicle of DMV. Great show for you lined up today. We’re going to talk a little bit about what it’s like to live in the championship or bust era. Very, very weird, unfamiliar territory to us. A lot of busting. Lot of Well, that’s 30 seconds in. That’s part of what it’s about. 30 seconds in. Championship or bust usually is more often than not bust. But, uh, we’re going to talk about that before moving on to what I think will take a majority of the show. Who’s to blame for the bust? Blame game. Who’s to blame? Really, I do not suspect we will reach a unanimous consensus. That’s why have to pick one. Well, that’s kind of the fun of this. We have to. So, we’ll all probably have our own sort of like algorithm we use to assign blame for this, but it’ll be interesting and I think that’ll make for a great discussion and back from Oklahoma City, the Sooner State. Brennon vote. Yeah, sad to leave Oklahoma. Glad to be home. Uh got off the plane, saw those beautiful mountains and thought, you know what? Not so bad. Not so bad on this side of the fence, fellas. How was Oklahoma, though? Did Were the people nice? Look, I’ll give my media training answer. We’re no coast bias here at DNVR. Those fly over states. Fly in states, man. You know, hang put your feet up. Make yourself at home. Great. Lovely people. That city sucks, man. That city. What did you do? Like, what do you do in Oklahoma City? Work. That’s so sick. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Which, by the way, was what we were there to do. So, no complaints. Just But like, are there things to do? Is is Are there things to do in Oklahoma? I am pushing it. I’m pushing it a little bit. Is it downtown bustling? No, it’s not. I like the heartland. Shout out. We have a lot of people watching who are probably might be from the area. Have people from the If it works for you, it works for you. It’s a small city skyline is what I’ll say. It is a I mean, it’s a small city. Uh over here, Dline Co. What up, guys? [Laughter] Yeah, I feel that. I feel it. We’re having the show. Harrison Wind. I woke up this morning, started thinking of snake draft topics for the off season. I’m not ready, man. I’m not ready. I’m so I’m so rusty on this show. I was like, does he mean types of snakes? Well, we still have one day in our back pockets. Yeah. So, here we are the day after. A little hangover. Not doing hangover takes, but a little hung over from last night’s loss. Oh, and from alcohol. And maybe from alcohol in some cases. you know, did you always get a little better perspective though because once the season’s over, once anything’s over, you get to talking to people, you get to get some stuff. And, you know, this whole year was very interesting. It was frustrating more than not. I thought the last two months were as fun as I’ve had covering this team. You know, the championship’s obviously the best, but the last two months, it was building to a point of feeling like they could win it. I know you were there already. I was building towards that, and I was in utter disbelief for most of the year. So it was fun to get that hit again and just to feel that and to see and to fall back in love to fall back in love and I feel like I did over these last two months. So in many ways it redeemed itself with that. But we are in an era of championship or bust where the only thing that truly feels like success and I don’t even put truly on there. The only thing that feels like success right now is stacking championships. And I just want to go here and say that in my lifetime, there have only been three cornerstone pieces that felt like we were entering or going to enter a championship or bust era. Nicolich, correct? Carmelo Anthony. When you drafted Carmelo Anthony, well, but when you got if you remember 2003, four, five, it felt like our time is coming when hope sprang in real. Yeah. in and I think you can go back to ’92 with Teimbe Matumbo because that team was really good. You know, they had good young players and it did feel like in that era as well that hey, this could turn into something. Now, that one the train fell off the tracks immediately with an insane amount of injuries as well as a dysfunctional organization. But just starting there, this is uncharted territory for this organization. And I’m going to go to you first because you know it most intimately for as long Dline along with me just being old people. But it is weird to think that over the last 35 years there’s maybe been two and a half times where you’re like we could grow into a champion. Definitely. I mean the Denver Nuggets uh were forever just sort of like the other team in town. Like they were just like oh yeah we they’ve got a basketball team too. I mean they’re not good. They’re kind of like we’re how the Rockies are right now. like they just you’re like, “Yeah, we’ve got one.” You can’t envision the Rockies winning the World Series, right? You cannot picture it. It that’s how it used to be. It was as likely as the Rockies winning the World Series is what it felt like for the Nuggets to be able to pull off an NBA championship or even just be part of the conversation. Like just to not be a joke, you know, like we were just a straightup joke forever. And um you know, obviously all of that has changed, but you’re right, like there’s not there’s not a lot of times where you’re you’re like, “Okay, I’m going to emotionally invest in this team because I at least can see a path to that being paid off. Obviously, we got that major payoff. Now we have the taste for it, which is maybe worst.” So true. We got a taste and we can’t think of anything else except that. Yeah, cuz now we’re in the championship then bust era. That’s what Well, it is that scene in White Lotus where she’s like, I’m not meant to live in uncover. That’s us right now. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, Yeah. Meanwhile, we were born in the gutter. Yeah, I know. I just don’t think I could go back to stay in the hotel. You guys don’t serve caviar yet? Stayed in a hotel one time and now we’re like, “Hey, showers were really nice.” Yeah, that pressure. By the way, Oklahoma turnown service. You wanted a compliment? Great water pressure. Great water. shouts. It’s downstream there of the old Arkansas. Uh if we go even by year, let’s actually make it more narrow. If we just went into at the start of the playoffs, how many seasons in my life could I have said, you know what, there’s a way this could break for us. And this is what I came up with. In 2006, the Nuggets added George Carl halfway through the season and they went 32 and 8. And you felt like even though they weren’t a top seed, you felt like, man, this team has the magic. Things are breaking right. What happens? Na na uh injured in game one of the season. Kenyon Martin got injured late. He missed the whole year. Kenyon Martin got injured late. Wasn’t 100% for the playoffs and then got benched because he refused to come into the game because he got in a fight with George Carl. They got murdered by the Spurs. Sounds like it went well. Yeah. So 4-1. That is such a I think that screams more NBA in 2006 than that story. But there was hope that that era, that year was going to be like going into the playoffs, you hope for something good to happen. Bring a gun into the locker room, too. 2007, you added uh Allen Iverson, but then Kenyon was hurt and missed the entire season. Then the following year, you finally get everyone back. Na Na got hurt in the three games in the Nuggets were cursed in that three-year stretch, man. They had like they actually had teams I don’t know if they would have won, but they had teams that were better than what they had and they just had injuries. 2009 was the best year they went to the conference finals. Hey, that’s what you hope for, right? Just you want a chance and they came up a little short. 2010 could have been the best year, but George Carl got cancer. Yeah, that sucks. Hard to say that the year that your coach gets cancer is the best year. Well, it was the best year until that and then they crashed and burned cuz that team was about to be was was really good. So, if you look at 26 to 2010, by the time you got to the playoffs, that was the window of that era, the true window. And there was maybe two years where you could have talked yourself into true title contention. That was an entire era. It’s so true. I mean like that’s again we are we have been so spoiled by this the golden era and it when you start to think back to where we came from it’s you’re it’s you shudder like we can’t go back. We’re not going back. We’re not going back. That’s what Jokic said, right? Winning he it was my favorite quote. It was last year actually. Ironically winning is a lifestyle and I don’t want to go back. Yeah, absolutely. We went back and obviously in this Nuggets era now 2020 I don’t think was a real shot at the title, but it was the bubble. Anything’s possible. We certainly tucked ourselves into a possibility. They went far. 2021 is when it opened, but then you had Murray injured in 21. 22 windows not open. If you don’t have Jamal, you weren’t winning a title. 23 they win it. 24 and 25, two years where we both we all felt like it was possible. Whatever the likeliness was, we all thought it was possible and they come up short. So, it’s uncharted territory for me to be in this moment. vote where this is the seventh greatest most successful season in Nuggets history somewhere around there and yet it feels like a loss and that’s just new territory. I agree and it feels like a loss because of the great privilege at hand which is a game breaker a foundational cornerstone. I mean every every franchise has by default their cornerstone or is looking for one. Joic is a historically elite cornerstone. So when he’s there, you always have a chance. It’s really interesting, man. I’m not doing the bit. This is a real take. You know, Boston won in even more dominant fashion than the Nuggets. We thought barely well suited to come back, maybe better suited to come back and defend their title than Denver. Lost in the same spot, in the same round, and we’ve had seven different champs in the last seven years. None of them can make it back to the conference finals. It did help me reframe mentally sort of how I feel about this era. Ultimately, I think they have left some on the table because they have Jokic. And to the question you’re asking me, now is the time to get greedy. But I do think everyone involved can walk away player-wise, the players in the locker room, I think, can all walk away with their heads held high. I think the five of those guys, no question, are champions. I think this year they acquitted themselves in the mental toughness category because the reason I bring up the Boston stuff when they fell short last year, our takeaway was not, well, the league is different now. It’s, oh, these guys are cowards. They show this year, man. Nothing cowardly about what we just saw. So I think they’ve largely acquitted themselves, but it’s time to get greedy because while we are in the parody era, we are also in the yok era. No should get more than one. And I think that’s this sort of harsh reality that’s washing over everyone. We want to applaud the effort. They fell short. And wind, I feel like what it is is when you open a title window, you can do everything right and still come up short because of injuries or circumstance. So that’s what makes every tiny decision feel so heavy because you’re like, “Yes, cuz we you got to nail the stuff you can control because the stuff you can is so wide.” Yeah. And that’s what really hurts cuz they definitely didn’t do everything right. Right. Um what’s funny is you compare them to the Celtics and how both teams approached the year after the championship. The Celtics, you can kind of make the case, did everything right. Brought everyone back. Yeah, they brought everybody back. They went into the second apron. They were like, “All right, we’re running it back. We’re actually running it back.” And I mean, who knows what would have happened. They sold also though, weirdly, in between all this, right? There’s that whole thing. You don’t know what was happening off the court. Oh, you’re right though. And they did what we wanted Denver, right? I mean, maybe if Tatum doesn’t get hurt, you can say they come back and I don’t know what what happens in that series. I do. What? They wouldn’t win. Yeah, but we don’t know. But it also wasn’t just Tatum. It was Tatum and Porzingis and Drew and they had the Porzingis thing. It’s not an excuse. They like the Nuggets battled through all that stuff, too. But I’m just saying they they had a healthy year until all of a sudden the wheels came off at the same time. Yeah, for sure. And so like neither approach worked and I mean it’s really tough in the NBA these days. Look, championship is is obviously the goal. That’s what at the end of the of the day the that’s the biggest factor people get measured on for sure. But I mean just the reality is it is tougher to win championships now and stack championships than it was a decade ago than it was even like 8 n 10 years ago. There’s are going to be seven different champions in the last seven years for the first time in NBA history this season. That’s not like by mistake. That’s what the league has been trying to do. So yes, championships are are still the ultimate goal. It is tougher than ever though, I think, to stack championships, even if you have an all-time top 15 player ever. It just is. No one’s even getting back to the conference finals, man. It’s not It’s not close. In fact, Denver got as close as anyone has. True. It was. And what’s our memory of that? Deeply embarrassing. Deeply embarrassing. So, like that’s kind of what I I tried to write this story. It’s on the vdvr.com today. Like, there was a conflicted sense of pride in that locker room. We did like we did fight tooth and nail to the last man. Also, we’re supposed to have higher expectations than this for ourselves. Yeah. How do you square that, Dline? Because this year was fun. There was good things. They were competitive. They were entertaining, but we’re less unsatisfied. Uh yeah, I mean listen, this all said and done uh this was a disappointment for sure. They we for sure any time that now I mean we are in the window where any non- championship year is a failure like that’s just where we’re at. That’s we don’t have any more moral victories with Nikolic. You not only should be competing, you should be there every single time. And if you’re not like it’s it’s damning, you know? It’s it’s not just like ah shucks. It’s like bro you got to you got to do better for this guy. you have to do better for this guy. And that’s I mean that that noise is getting louder and louder and louder. It’s becoming the Giannis thing where everybody is now um you know looking at Denver as what’s holding Jokic back which is not where you want to be as a an organization. We I mean you see what that looks like in Milwaukee. I mean it’s like really honestly torn them apart because they’ve been trying to jump from one foot to the other to try and like satisfy what Y get one coach they it’s his friend they fire him bring in another guy they get Dame Lillard they get rid of this guy and it’s just like an absolute disaster and now they’re in a place where you’re like bro what even happens there that it feels like they are at a place where they’re going to have to completely start over and do right by Giannis which is like I hate that idea like especially when thinking about Jokic that has to do right by Joic and that means uh putting him in a different situation. So, um it there’s a lot of like great stories that came from this. There’s a lot of like really positive things. There’s a lot of things you feel good about, but at the end of the day, it’s like it just sadly was not good enough, especially with players that we kn like factually know have what it takes to win, you know? Right. Let’s take our break because we’re a little late here, but I do want to continue this going before we start the blame game, including how do we find joy in the boom or bust era, the championship or bust? Drugs. That’s a good option. Yeah. All right, segment three. We should not have Dline on the show today. What were we thinking, guys? If you’re putting in a new floor, if you’re uh, you know, doing that home business, whatever it might be, now you got time in your hands. Yeah, you got time off. That’s a good offseason activity. Putting in new flooring. Yeah, dude. Uh, Empire Today, they’re going to be your go-to. Don’t go to those big box stores. Go to Empire Today. They’ll give you the attention. They’ll give you the customer service. Uh, the the one-on-one focus that you need for a big project like your floors, which if you step foot in a big box store and we find out about it, we will publicly shame you on this show. We We find out even one person, even you don’t even have to step in. If you think about going to a big box store, if you put it in your maps app, we’re going to be scouring people. We’re going to be scouring people’s socials. Yeah, we’re going to be putting on academy. Um, Empire today, they are your best bet for new flooring. They live and breathe flooring. It’s all they do. So, get $350 off. Uh, get a free in-home estimate today as well with them. DNVR listeners, you guys can get a $350 discount when using the promo code DNVR. a $350 discount with the code DNVR. Restrictions apply. Visit Empire today/DMVR for full details. They will actually bring the showroom right to your home. You can pick the flooring and the colors for your space. See how it will look in your space with your furniture in your house with Empire today. $350 off with the code DNVR Supply. Visit Empire today/dmvr for full details. Good one in the chat there from RP43. But I do have to talk to you about Lucy. Oh, that’s a good one. Well, is this one? Is this one one? Wow. 100% one. 100% pure nicotine. Always tobaccof free. Lucy breakers are nicotine pouches with an extra surprise, Eric. Each pouch holds a capsule that could be broken open to release extra flavor and hydration. Set yourself up with a subscription and have Lucy delivered straight to your door. There’s like different strengths. It’s like numbers. Bro, can I tell you can I read to you a real message I got from my real brother? Yeah, of course. Uh just now? No. The other day, uh this was a a message he sent to both me and my sister. He said, “I read a paper this morning that was actually on the positive medical effects of nicotine. Among the benefits were the decrease in both Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.” This is not a claim by Lucy. This is a thing my brother sent me. Both are important distinction I think legally. Very important. Yeah. both are passed on heretically or heredetically and we’re both at risk. And I was like, uh, so what Eric’s trying to say is he needs to find his Lucy. So I think I’m in, dude. I think I’m in basically for my health. There you go. Go to lucy.co/dnvr and use promo code dnvr to get 20% off your first order. Lucy has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. Again, that’s lucy.co and use code dnvr to get 20% off. Here is the fine print. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age and every order is age verified. Warning, this product contains nicotine and nicotine is an addictive chemical. Mercifully, we are back. segment too. Make sure you hit the like button. And uh you know the last thing before we move on to the blame game here is it is weird and one thing I kind of wrestle with which is the funnest seasons for me outside the championship year were the early ones because that expectation isn’t there and it is a weird thing as a fan to enjoy like the comments and some of this is just the world I think over the last 10 years has like become more negative online. And I don’t know if it’s become more negative overall, but certainly the way people handle their online emotions has. But these years have also been harder to enjoy for that reason in my opinion. Not because they’re not less fun, but because you know there’s this thing hanging over you of Yeah, but if they don’t win, what does it mean? And I think we’ve all, you know, on this show, we try to do it in a really fun way with each other, but like watcho, it’s like, man, that Wo game was so fun, but we like sucked. We’re like, we won. We’re now 15 games out of first. Well, I was going to say too, like eventually it’s really fun when you’re winning and everyone has their different agendas and you all get and then everything comes to a head. You’re like, oh, we’re all at war with each other now over agendas. um which I know are not real things and we’re but there there is that’s that’s that’s the part that it’s it’s really hard to go online and say I actually am proud of this team because they did fall short and there’s just there there is this I think a lot of people have done it by the way I’m just saying you’re subject to like oh yeah well the goal is to win and by the way that’s true too and by the way the players feel that way too so there’s I mean the thing about being a sports fan is like You can spend your whole life eating crap just waiting for that one moment of glory. Yeah. But it act there actually are so many moments in between that like feed you as a fan. And you still get those in all these years. You don’t win titles. But once the expectations hit a certain place, it’s like how much time are we going to talk about that they played through the injuries which was awesome. They lost in the second round. Sometimes it’s all about the friends you make along the way, you know. Do you still believe that? Yes, I actually do. I listen um I had a rough night last night. I don’t know if anybody else watched the Nuggets game. It was terrible. I did catch it. Yeah, dude. I was actually live the entire game. I don’t know about I pity you. I pity you. Surely you were clipped to high heaven across the internet. Um listen uh I was like everybody else I assume looking for meaning. What is it? What are we doing? Why am I doing this? Why are my emotions as an adult 45 soon to be 46 year or maybe 47. I don’t even know how old I am anymore. You have to start doing the math. In a few days I’m It’s my birthday. I’ll find out how old I am then. It doesn’t matter. Um what am I doing with myself? Why am I so wrecked emotionally? Why am I so distraught? And then I went around the bar and I gave a lot of hugs. I gave a lot of high fives. I got a lot of like very meaningful messages from people explaining to me why it was so cool, what this whole community means. And I just was left with at the end like I think that it’s very cool that professionally we have created something that’s a bigger than the sum of its parts. We use that phrase a lot, but it’s bigger than the sport itself. There really is something that trickles out into the real world. And um it’s about going on a journey with a bunch of like-minded people that have a similar goal in mind and are really kind of up for whatever happens. Um and it felt cool. It really felt cool even though I was in a really bad place. And then I got very drunk and uh I’m hung over. So what was there? What was the question? What are we talking about? To answer Adam’s question. Um, someone should It It is tough because way back in the day when we didn’t have championship as the goal, everything did seem great and jolly. Totally, man. So light. We watched the W show game and oh my god, they won and you know they like, but now we’re just in like real hoops. Like this is real basketball now. Like this is what the NBA is defined by. This is what this sport is. It’s not really the when you think back like we’ll remember it because we lived it, but a lot of people don’t remember the fun stuff. They just remember the championship. So, it’s kind of like a sobering reality that we’re in right now, right? It’s it’s just kind of like real NBA history. Yeah. You know, it’s good and bad. It’s a great point. And we’re experiencing it. And at the end, I think we’ll look back at it as all good because the more distance you get from it, the le the more of those the pains of the moment fade and what lasts are the positive memories. So this is why nostalgia exists and we’ll all have that feeling. But in the moment we’re in the middle of it and we’re just hoping for another one and we get that one. Guess what? We’re going to hope for another one. It’s just how it goes. That’s the one thing you learn is you’ll never be satisfied. I know, right? This one I which by the way again they lost in the second round. They did play the Thunder and briefly, ever so briefly, you could see the trophy at the end of the tunnel there for a bit. And I would have told you that this one meant a million times more than the first one, which I would have never thought is possible cuz the Nuggets had never even been to the finals and then they win. Hell hath frozen over. This would have been something cuz once you get to that place where you’re like, “My expectations are high and we’re not meeting them.” But then here comes the push. Like I I and honestly, man, I tried to tell you guys and and I I think you all saw it, of course, doing your own jobs here. Like it really did reach the breaking point, that team, that locker room. It was like, do you want to be a team or are you done? And they just decided we want to be a team. That was awesome. That’s what makes sports great. That’s sports. Exactly. Yeah. And the team really was does make us proud. Like this was there’s some years you don’t you’re like was that a team to be proud of? Like you know this is one where you’re like you know what I’m proud of that group of guys. Totally. Yeah. There are years you’re like I wish this [ __ ] guy would leave. Sorry the report would leave Denver and now and like now I’m like I can’t like this is I’m so invested in this squad and I’m so Yes. Like I’m so the reason I’m so invested is because they have so many traits that I find admirable and there’s so many storylines that get validated and there’s new ones that crop up and there’s things but it’s never like you know we don’t have like that normal NBA experience where you’re just worried about you know like what is Kyle Koozma going to get a fit off right like is there are a lot of years where the best outcome is really lame the lamest like all right well you’re like oh I know our guy like if our our whole year was about Daniels is the sixth man of the year. I don’t our whole our whole banner was like getting Christian Brown most improved player. We’re like look this is unbelievable. It’s unbelievable. Um this season for me was AG’s hamstring or Michael Porter’s shoulder or Yogic’s elbow or any of these other things. It was a broken year that the team courageously and and valiantly gave everything they had to try to overcome and they couldn’t and that sucks. And that leads us to the blame game. Oh boy. The blame game. Oh boy. What a game. Time honored tradition. So we talk about I think the Nuggets could have won a title this year had things broken a little differently. Roster construction coaching this or that. I suspect I will be alone in this one. But if I were to assign one person the most blame, and again I don’t I I was trying to put percentages on this earlier and then I was like, “This doesn’t make sense to assign a percentage of blame.” But if I would, I would have put two people with almost exact identical blame, but I would have tilted it slightly towards Michael Malone because while I think Calvin Booth is right there and you could if you told me 50/50 or even if you flipped that in the other direction, I’m not going to argue you. This is all perspective. But to me, I don’t believe that Michael Malone fully acted in great faith in good faith over the last two years. He did act in bad faith. I think for sure he lost the locker room. I mean, I think everybody saw in the aftermath of this that the team awoken like they woke up like whatever you think undeniable. There was a very clear pivot point and it was his exit where the team was like, you know what, guys, let’s come together. Um, so he lost the locker room and I think he lost most much of the organization. I think there’s a perspective of like the front office didn’t like him and pushed him out or this or that. I think there’s a lot of people in every layer that were done with Michael Malone by well before the firing. Um, and so I start there and then I also go into a a bunch of things that I think go back years that is not just about what position he put into developing young guys that were Cal guys, but running Jokic into the ground, Jamal Murray getting away with sort of his shortcomings. I think all of these things actually stem from Malone. He did a lot of good things. I don’t want this to be revisionist history, but to me, I think most of the things people are mad about are either can be traced back to him or or filtered through him, somebody else’s fault that then got filtered through and augmented by him. So, it’s almost 50/50 between him and Cal. But for me personally, I would tilt it just one ounce more in the Malone direction. I hated your answer. I liked your explanation. Yeah, I thought it was I well argued. And I also think the booth side of it is probably more heavily talked about. It’s easier to identify. Way easier to identify and also true. Yeah, of course. So, look, I mean, I do look, Malone lost the locker room. That’s just a fact. It’s just you can’t look at what happened this year and argue that. Ironically, they got to the second round. Kind of wish they had him in his experience, but that’s not the point. They wouldn’t have gotten there. Um, yeah, I think there’s a lot to the the like what we’ve heard that this core grew up from like needing a basketball dad to being literal actual fathers and has said I think that’s a really really important point. I do hold the players responsible as well though for some of what happened to Malone. Like he was asking you to play hard, you should have. He was asking you to watch film, you should have. He was asking you to play defense. You should have. And honestly, as I listened very closely to what David Adelman said and asked of them, a lot of the same stuff. Same stuff, man. They just did it. Um, so, you know, as I guess this is sort of the point of the segment as you you kind of will see as we pick our different answers, the way that these are all connected. Yeah, that’s what it is 100%. Let’s take a break. I want to get these two guys’ uh perspective on this question on the other side, and we’ll move into all of the players in this, not players, but people who impacted how this year went. Whether you’re on the road or at home, somewhere in between, First Bank makes banking easy, convenient, and secure. Their mobile banking app allows you to check balances, pay friends, manage your money anytime, anywhere. And here’s the best part. Open a new First Bank checking account today. You could earn $300. First Bank is all about helping you stay on track. Their tools make it simple to stay in control of your finances without the hassle. No matter where life takes you first bank, they’re going to give you the freedom to bank how and when it works best for you. So, if you’re ready to for a better banking and the chance to earn a little extra, head to efirstbank.com/bonus. 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I’m going to give I’m right now I’m going to present it from one angle but soon we’ll we’ll segue. He presented a vision really three years ago but earnest two years ago that I think Michael Malone not only did not agree with but he actively sabotaged and it led to things like KCP not being resigned. It led to them not bringing in back uh Holiday who probably could have contributed this team. But I think Cal did not believe that in giving Michael Malone those options, he would take anything other than those like he would throw everything else to the wayside. And he was probably right on that. So we’ll get to the plan and how bad of a plan it was. But I think it’s to me it’s more damning to sabotage a plan because when you’re part of a group, you don’t get full say in everything and you have to do other people’s visions as much as your own. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like there’s a reason neither one of them are here anymore. There’s a reason that they were fired at such a pivotal moment of the season. It was like they were clearly both found to be acting in bad faith. They were putting their own agendas above the team success which is just uh despicable. Frankly, it’s uh even though we were kind of I mean we were you could see it playing out the whole time. Uh clearly there was it went deeper than we realized or at least I did in that both got fired because of it. Um but it was clear that there was that tension that you see in like Moneyball where it’s like the GM’s like bro play this guy. I’m not going to play this guy. Then they get rid of the guy so you can’t play him anymore. And it’s like stuff like that makes you feel especially when the team is on a very like directed path that is coming from a larger strategy. if all if everybody’s not rowing in the same direction and your margin for error is already so thin because you’re trying to thread the needle between the new um salary cap issues and and trying to figure out how best to build around Nicola moving forward for there to be infighting and everything. I mean it’s hard for me to not go the direction you I mean ob you know what I’m a big uh fan of Michael Malone and I just think he was an absolute gift to the city. I think that he really did things that I don’t think anybody thought was possible here. I love the attitude he brought. I loved like what he did, like how he built the Nuggets in his in his image alongside Nikico obviously, but I can’t argue the fact that, you know, that he he played his hand wrong and ultimately you were on this from the beginning. I mean, being at the actual arena and seeing the way that people were interacting with each other, it was clearly a problem. But also the relationships. I mean, this is the one thing I want to say because a lot of people will say this about like I don’t talk to one person. I talk to a lot of people throughout. And when you hear the same thing from like factions of an org, not like, oh, the front office is saying this, but you hear it from every layer and you’re like, I think I have a consistent idea of what’s going on here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I’m with you guys. Like they both those guys probably deserve around the same amount of blame. Yeah. Um, you know, you can go plus or minus a couple percent to to give one guy more blame. I I wouldn’t fight you that hard if you went either direction there. Sure. But I just think like for both guys looking back on it, it’s just kind of embarrassing how it played out and the effect that it had on the team. I mean, the fact that a coach GM conflict can bleed into a locker room. Yep. and affect guys their mental and on the court is just embarrassing. And it’s it’s just wild the the more you step away from it that like they neither was the big enough person to right like come together and have any reconciliation or any desire to do that. And so they they both deserve a ton of blame. Calvin’s decisions are way more identifiable and way easier to look at and say he didn’t get any veterans. That’s that’s why they lost or and I think part of his draft pick sucked. Like that’s why he lost. And I think part of the reason he didn’t get veterans was the idea of like well then these other guys won’t play. I mean one of them is Christian think about KCP this year. Christian even in that Minnesota series KCP made no impact on that one. And it wasn’t until game seven or game six that he made the change. And I just think that same thing would have happened this year where it was and then you’re looking at it where Christian right now you’re almost hopeful although he might cost an arm and a leg. I think that that was part of it. You could say it’s wrong cuz I think it is wrong. He should have just done it. Can I go devil’s advocate though just a little bit because I think boot as we’ve said well and we’ll also get to Booth, but you can go on this point for sure. Just on this point. Yeah. Just cuz it’s like I think Malone was right to want to play Justin Holiday over Pton Watson. Man, Peyton Watson wasn’t good. Justin Holiday was Malone was trying to win games in Yokic’s prime. So I understand that it’s like hey there’s a lot the point that their egos got in the way to me is the most salient one and both of them own that and wear that and that’s why both of them don’t work here anymore. Uh but I would say I was way largely more sympathetic to Malone’s side of like yeah man I want to play veterans. What are you talking about? I have one of the greatest players of all time in his prime. I’m trying to win games. Everyone says we should rest and more. When he doesn’t play we go minus 59. we might make the play in or be relegated to the playin. So again, I think Malone made mistakes. I’m not trying to but like I just understand his resistance to the plan on this point is what I would push back with. They made the trade though. This was under Tim Connley to bring in Javale McGee. Remember that was a cost that they made cuz he was like we need a backup center. We need a backup center. Then they got him and he never played. That’s a great criticism. And I think it’s the same pattern there that is the pattern that’s here. This is like this is a tough to work with. He’s a tough collaborator. I think Michael Malone was a tough collaborator. That’s a good way of putting it. I in thinking about this now like I kind of even back up because we are in a position where we’re like oh man should Adam be the coach should you know and it’s like I think that a big failing was on the Kronies by not putting a team in place that was on the same page that they by bringing Calvin in or just I should say bringing him in promoting Calvin because it was easy and he was there and not like being having the the conversation with him and Malone. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. I don’t really obviously know how that went, but clearly those guys were at odds visionwise from the get-go. And so, like, that was just a slowmoving car wreck that was going to happen no matter what that those guys the fact that they couldn’t collaborate. I don’t I don’t think it’s I mean, I don’t what do I know? But I I I can’t imagine there’s no one in life that Michael Malone cannot or is able to collaborate with. Like I I feel like he could collaborate with somebody that was like-minded and like they just empowered somebody that was not. So whatever. I I’m not so but honestly my real read is I’m not so sure cuz I think Michael Malone is extremely politically savvy and minded. And think about this. What if people Isaiah Thomas loved him? Uh Boogie Cousins loved him. Like he has the love of a lot of players. And I’ll take you I said this the other day on the show when Russell Westbrook started over Aaron Gordon for all those games and then eventually Christian Brown. I know that that was something or I’ve heard from people that that was something that really bothered the team because Christian Brown was having a great year and had was off to this great start. Aaron Gordon is Mr. Nugget and had put all this time in. But I think Russ was a tricky personality and I think Malone went with a political choice there of like this is a path of least resistance and if Russ is on my side, this is good for me, not just here but even long term and there’s that. And I think that was I said the other day was the beginning of the end. I think this had been building for a long time. I always thought I thought this whole season was about Michael Malone’s maybe keeping his job if they won but being fired otherwise. But I think that was the one where the team was like what is going on here because AG and CB have done their dues and this guy is good but how is he now being elevated to this status and I think it caused some division and I think it’s a very Michael Malone move. Yeah, I for sure that my like what I I think what I’m saying is um I think that it was wrong from the beginning and that that was just the logical end. All that stuff like all the the the people acting out to try and like push their agenda, making the other guy look wrong. Just the the things that you get into the at the end where it’s ultimately warranted their firing. Like that’s they both got to a place where that they were jockeying amongst one another and like probably using the team, back channeling, having conversations, losing the locker room. I mean, just stuff where it’s like just not a healthy organization. And that starts when mom and dad aren’t talking. Yep. Right. There’s no question. There’s no question. I think that Murray I’m very curious to see how Murray comes back next year because I think this is ultimately on Murray that he’s never in shape. Nobody else. Like I don’t want to sign anyone else blame. I don’t know that he was held accountable for this because this was a repeated pattern his entire career where he shows up and he’s the starting point guard and he’s the number two and there’s no question about it and I think there was just a little entitlement that was afforded to him by one Michael Malone as well and I’m cur and maybe what we’re going to get next year new coach and it’s the exact same story and no he’s not punished for it but I think that there was a little bit of that as well. Yeah, for sure. Jamal Murray is the next name I was going to nominate. Actually, we have to do Malone and Cal. I feel for one, too. We haven’t got to Cal yet. I want I want I’m right now focusing on one guy cuz I’m I don’t want to. We’re going to have a lot for Cal. I think we have to throw Josh. I I want to get to Josh, too. Those are the four names I have to spend the most time on, but just trying to tie a bow on on Malone. I do think there’s a little bit here of the like Murray factor where Well, I mean, he was very protective of Jamal in ways that I think were not helpful. Mike Malone, and he was probably right to do this throughout his career, has aligned himself with his star players. You go back to Sacramento, he’s the only coach that Boogie Cousins ever liked or got along with. I mean, there’s a reason for that. He is a players coach from that perspective. If you’re a star like Michael Mo, he’s always going to have your back. And it’s honestly a commendable quality about it’s it’s a great thing about him. Zeke Naji wouldn’t call him a players coach though, right? Malone wouldn’t call him a player. Definitely not a real one. Um, but I I do think like his presence definitely had has a big effect on Jamal in terms of like he was not held as accountable as he should have been over the last couple years. He was he’s been allowed to like, you know, come into training camp not in the best shape, work himself into shape, like Jamal can just decide when he plays and when he doesn’t play. I mean, that is because of Michael Malone. So, yeah, and just with how Jamal’s season ended and and all that, I mean, 13 points in a game seven, he’s he’s definitely the player you have to you have to look to. And I I I think like how Michael Mullen has managed him, I mean, is a big reason why he’s the way he is in some aspects. Kale, do we have break three? Nope. Um, let’s keep rolling on then. So, let’s move on to Calvin Booth now. Um, we’re we can go line by line by all the mistakes, but here are the four things I kind of go through. Far too invested in his own vision. Just as a coach has to be a collaborator, a front office member has to be like, I think I know the answer. But I if other people aren’t on board with it, I can’t force that answer through. And I think he learned that lesson way too late or didn’t learn it at all. Horrible asset management. He just made a handful of trades that felt like throwaways and then all of a sudden the cupboard’s completely bare. Um he didn’t bring shooting or athleticism to the roster. Even if you were to p hit on like the guys that he brought in, it’s not an athletic enough roster and there’s not enough shooting even unless Hunter Tyson and Julian Strawther and if you’re counting on that like come on man. So that and then probably line item number one contributed to a bad culture and this wasn’t in my opinion just his conflict with Michael Malone. I think he struggled to connect with people above, below and alongside him as he tried to instill his vision. So to me those four things and then you can go line item them. It was very damning all those things. But those are the things. One thing we really heard about the Tim Connelly front office over and over again was how collaborative it is was to the point where at some point we went, is it really Tim or are we sure it’s not this Arcturus guy? Are we sure it’s not Calvin? Yeah. Turns out it was Tim. Yeah. Or a group. This is the funny or a group. Right. Wow. Well, here’s the irony of it. Tim didn’t fight like Tim took a lot of internal behindthe-scenes losses. He took a ton of L’s because he had to give and give and give. And guess who’s on top right now? Tim Conley. Best GM in the world. Figure, dude. Yeah. He took all these L’s and ended up with a dub. So I think there was I think Tim like it’s really this stuff you sort of all say in hindsight on a podcast. Like for Tim, he’s just working dayto-day, you know? He’s not like waking up and like thinking about culture. But all these little thing like being collaborative. Yeah, dude. Just being a vibesman. I just think this was an org where people were like, “Yo, it’ll be cool to come to work tomorrow and we’re all working towards it.” What about when he pulled a Tim though? Yeah, dude. Probably less fun for everyone. But he also had that too. Which is which, by the way, to be clear is like you thought we had a plan. Tyler lied in a gut feeling though. I got a gut feeling. Which he does do, which he does. I mean that’s okay. We’ve learned that by but he but he listens and or at least fostered this sort of environment of like people were down to people were excited to come here and build towards that vision and I think somewhere along the lines and I think Booth played a role in this it just sort of shifted to like well I got to cover my ass here I know cuz this is not looking good. I think the Nuggets have been in cover your ass territory for the last two years. That’s part of what we’re talking about here. But Cal, I just mentioned fully invested his own vision, horrible asset management, lack of shooting athleticism contributed to bad culture. That kind of covers the scope. Yeah, that sounds like a pretty bad GM. Pretty dam. That’s pretty tough. Every every duty of the GM. Yeah. What I mean what happened was Cal came up with a plan, a very ambitious plan that did not need to be as ambitious as it was. Agreed. I really feel like he tried to 4D chess the CBA and it didn’t need to be as hard as he laid it out to be. And he kept doubling down and doubling down and doubling down and going harder and harder and harder into it. And that was the only way it was ever going to happen. You know, in his mind, he had thought it out. He had done different scenarios. He had thought every type of plan through. And he came away thinking this was the best route to do it. And that’s the direction he went. And there was no bumping him off of that, right? You know, there was no compromise. There was no, oh, maybe this isn’t going to exactly work out. And that is his biggest fault, I think. not recognizing in the moment that his vision that he had thought through longer than anybody else and game planned out and and looked at from every different angle, it just was not working and was not going to work under the situation here in Denver with who the head coach was and he wasn’t willing to budge off it. I I would go even further though because it’s to me it was even like his whole plan was predicated on Malone’s buyin. Yeah. And Malone’s ability to sabotage this was so easy. Like he was like as you know what I mean? He put himself in position where Malone just merely had to like knock the thing down and be like okay well what if I do this? How about no? Yeah. No. And it’s like well now I have no Yeah. No crap. Totally. And I when you said double down, double down. Double down. And that really stood out to me because it’s not just that Booth identified his guys and was convinced they would work. He burnt capital to get them. And some of them guys that may well have been of available later in the draft. Easy to say now. And I actually kind of respected GM’s conviction like, “No, I think this guy is good, but you got to get it right.” And then so like then you sign Reggie, then you give him a player option. Now you got to get rid of three seconds to get off of him. You move picks to go get Payton Watson who might develop into something really impressive. Keyword might. You move picks to get it. Um I think Christian Brown was a great pick. At the time you literally could have argued I think like is this a tradeback guy? That’s always easier said than done. Go get him. It was the right pick. I I just so much was burnt to be like these guys will work and if they do don’t and didn’t it’s like what’s the optionality? It was so easy to thwart uh Calvin’s plan that Malone would just play a two-way backup point guard who wasn’t even eligible for the playoffs. Yeah. Over the guy that everybody else in the building wanted to play. The Suns are just and there was nothing anybody could do about it. And it’s why fans hate Cal and have like lukewarm feelings about Malone like some some of this or that when again I think they’re on equal footing. It’s just like hey man these guys have sabotaged each other and it cost us all. Yeah. And for me, when I look at Calvin Booth now, it’s like I actually respect the idea that he was so in on his plan. Like I think that that is an admirable trait for somebody in a leadership position that they’re not they’re unwavering in their vision. It’s just like that’s if you’re wrong, that’s this is what happens. That’s it. Like you’re just that Well, it’s so funny because like if he would have done the safe thing and got veterans and it still didn’t work, he probably would still have a job. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Cal knew that. And that’s why I say there is almost a respectability to Cab Cal’s obsision because it like and and I actually also here’s one thing I will say. Luke Cornet undrafted. Pton Pritchard undrafted. Uh Sam Hower I don’t remember undrafted. Do you know what picked Case Walls? Wall like this idea that it’s insane to try to go young in the back end of your roster with like well to me I just don’t think that’s true. I think it’s the new NBA and I think he saw like hey man our roster the real damning thing is Michael Porter and Jamal Maria are max contracts and they’re not quite so it’s like we are hamstrung to where we’re going to have to just get cheap guys and we’re going to have to nail it and he went young instead of vet both might have failed either way but he went this way and now it looks the way it did but he his execution from everything he did was just very very poor and as a result the Nuggets are where they are but let’s move on to the next one which is the Kronis to me and then we’ll get to Jamal Murray here a little bit later. But the Cronis, this all really started, if you ask me, with Tim Connley because I think Tim Connley was taken for granted here. And it’s easy to see why just all the things we said. He is both a genius and a regular guy. And I think it was easy at times to look at the regular guy angle of it and be like, it’s just a guy, man. We’ll find another one. We have Jokic. How hard could it really be? And on top of that, and so the Kronis, I think one, they let go of Tim Conley. In my opinion, I don’t know this to be true, this is my opinion. I think it was a contract negotiation ego thing. I think they did not Stan Kunky hates losing any negotiation. Tim Connley put him in a pickle and said, “Hey, I know I’m under contract, but these people are offering me more money, so you pay me more money.” And I think to Stan Kanki, you might as well insulted his mother, right? Because he will at that point, there is no way he’s going to break. But what he didn’t realize was this can all end very quickly if you don’t do it right. Tim has now built a juggernaut in another city in the a division rival. And then on top of that, when things with Cal Malone were spiraling, I had this take coming into the year cuz I saw these things already last year. I thought last year I was like, man, this is not going the right direction. And I don’t think there’s a roster change that’s going to fix it. There’s a culture change. And we went into the season, we went all the way deep until three games in before the move made. So for me, the Kronis started this thing and were way too late to correct it. And they were way too late to like really see it, it seems like, too. Yeah. Because even in, you know, Josh’s press conference after both those guys were fired, he said, you know, I thought about firing them at different times throughout the season. But I my read was I don’t think he did that cuz I don’t think he actually saw it. Yeah. And like Yeah. Oh, there there there’s problems here, but they can kind of like pull it together. I’m I’m not sure if they actually realized how bad it was until like they really until like Stan Crocki was sitting on the bench for a game in March. Yeah, that was a little weird. And I don’t I really don’t think it was until then that they saw like, oh [ __ ] we really have a problem here. So, I think I think some of it is definitely on them for just not seeing how big of an issue it was and how much it was derailing this team before they did. Yeah. They also offered him an extension to your point W like the timeline is a little What do you think that extension was? Probably real low. Are you saying Cal? Yeah, can I get into this cuz this is we’re going to talk more about this tomorrow. I think another angle or another layer of all of this is that the Kronis like to be in charge and like their involvement more than I think people realize. And I think some of this has to do with they hire new guys and bring in young new guys in part because new guys don’t have the clout to push back. So if they and I’m not saying they’re the one pulling the strings. I just think they like the idea of controllable assets and Cal Tim even when he got here perhaps if they go with Adam these are controllable more controllable than a Michael Malone. And you’re coming out of an era where Cal and Malone both went rogue and it’s like we don’t want wild horses anymore. We want horses that were born into captivity, right? Well, it to me though also it just it’s you just I hope the the lesson here for them moving forward is that you have to get a coach that the GM hired. Like you th those two have to be a team. You can’t peacemail it. Like you can’t bring in one where something is already established and just assume that they’re going to get onto the same page. It’s like if they was once Tim left and they bring in Calvin, Calvin had to be like they should have been like is this your guy it or one way or the other like they just they can’t assume that there’s going to be um you know that the two are going to which is one of the main reasons I think if you were at Vegas odds right now Ben Tener and David Adelman are inside they have the best odds right now and I think it’s for that reason is If Adelman’s your guy, you can’t bring a GM after that. And if you bring in a GM and you’re like, “Well, Adam Zone’s our guy.” He’s like, “I don’t know about that.” It’s like, “Okay, now we starting off with conflict.” Yeah. You can’t. They cannot cannot do that. Cannot. They have to hire the GM first and then the coach comes second and it has to be if it is Ben Tenzer, it has to be his decision to bring on David Adelman. Um, the last one here, just cuz we’re out of time, Jamal Murray, and I do put a lot on. We can’t even get through the front office and the blame game on day one, dude. There’s so much blame to give because there is other people. I have Adam Silver on the list. You go through a lot of people here. I’m on there eventually. I think I think I know this ladder is up to Elon Musk. Jamal Murray is the last guy I’m going to put here just because they signed him to another max contract. This is not like Michael Porter. They signed to that max contract they never should have. We could throw Tim Connley on this cuz he’s the one that gave the Michael Porter contract that has made everything so tough. So, we could go there. But Jamal Murray to me this year so much was just writing on him and I just we going into next year I think everybody’s on the same page. The Nuggets have a superstar and then they have some good players and you can’t win like that when you pay a guy a max. So for me, Jamal Murray in both the playoffs and in the regular season was good, really good, but he’s not what you the pick you would make to maximize Joic’s prime. And he just once again, I think, put too much on the shoulders of Jokic early on in the year to carry a load that he should never be asked to do. And that I also didn’t think was very good in the playoffs by the perspective of we’re waiting for you. We’re waiting you cuz you are. He wasn’t special. He was good though. I don’t think he was bad. Two special games. was good, but good wasn’t good enough. But wasn’t that the promise, too. I’ll be normal now. I’ll be special then. I think it’s gone. That’s what I’m saying, man. And I know he had a great You have to assume it’s gone. That’s That’s what it is. I think when you go if you’re a Bright Lights guy and you go two straight uh postseasons underperforming in the bright lights, I know he was hurt last year. I It’s just like, all right, so what where’s the benefit of the doubt now? Kase Wallace is a hell of a defender, but if you’re like, “Hey, man, he’s good as long as he doesn’t have to go up against Kase Wallace or Andrew W or Aaron Wiggins,” you’re like, “Man, come on.” Like Yoke went up against uh Zubots, Anthony Davis, Rudy Goar. Yoke’s playoff resume is kind of almost hidden by the fact that he’s gone up against the toughest matchup possible in almost every series. I can’t wait till we get the one series where he’s going up against some some like horrible defensive player. Where does he get Mason Plumbley in a playoff? Just one time. Well, he play he plays in the Western Conference, so that’s not going to be possible. Oh, no. He’s not going to get to go up against the Pacers. Yeah. Um I mean, to me, Jamal Murray in the playoffs, he was kind of the same guy that he was in the regular season. That’s the same vibe I got from Jamal in the playoffs. His scoring, his knack for the big moments. He was pretty much the guy he was in the regular season. And I think that’s been the case the last two playoffs now because I think that’s what he was in the playoffs last year, too. He was more injured in the playoffs last year than he was this year. Yeah. Um and he had some big moments, but I think largely he was a similar guy in the playoffs to who he was in the regular season. There were moments when you go, it’s Jamal Murray. He’s back. Here he is. Here he is. If you’re watching on fast, go on over to the internet just to finish up Harrison’s point. worldwide web and there were a lot of other moments where you’re like this guy just needs to give us a little more as a number two guy. The nice saving grace to wrap this up. There is a lot of blame. I think this season though largely as we step back from it there were roster decisions that made it more difficult. There was these things but the fact that there was a civil war brewing inside of the organization and they still were ma able to do what they did. That’s how good Joic is. just walk I walk away from this year me and I mean Eric you and I we had different perspectives on this year but I think we ultimately have the same which is that the Nuggets are always close they’re always close I think the Nuggets made it too hard on themselves this year but there’s this hopelessness of like it’s all over it’s all over and I go no it’s not cohesion of like alignment within the organization is going to do wonders for this team and the pieces there man there are playable players Sam Hower cornet like these you would laugh if you were like oh these are the guys. But you know what? When you have a good alignment, you can get or develop or find guys that can fill that role. Those guys are I don’t want to say a dime or dozen cuz I do value them, but it’s not like there’s one on earth and we have to several million a dozen. There are a lot of players that could be the seventh, eighth, and ninth guy in a Nuggets rotation. And you’d be in the conference finals this year. Even with the injuries, even with all of that, even with all of that. So that to me is like one way or another, the Booth Malone stuff literally costing roster spots. You know what I mean? And that’s the thing. It’s like pro. Come on, man. Whoever side you were on on that, the fact that it was there just shows you like what are we doing? We’re not optimizing oursel, but it’s over. And I will say I think the Nuggets are very aware. And you you there’s a million lessons to learn in life. You don’t get to learn them all. The Nuggets, I think, had to painfully learn this one. The Cronis had to painfully learn this one. Will they make the right choice? TBD. But I would be shocked if there was a Civil War next year. Well, you know what sucks, Adam? They didn’t learn that last year. Well, they needed two years to learn it. Murray, I think I I again, I felt pretty strongly this, but and I think they should have as they pretty much had this exact same podcast last year. I think they learned this year, though. I would hope so. But here’s But here’s here’s the thing that like needs to be acknowledged is like how close they were to like to actually getting be like we were all convinced they were going to win this series. like I um before last game like we were all like, “Oh, they got it. They figured it out.” Um I would say I would say I was until the last 13 seconds of the game six when AG got hurt. Well, yes. But yes, but AG wasn’t the you know, he obviously wasn’t himself, but like the way that that game played out, it like just makes it look like everything else was just such a disaster. And it’s No, they were close. No, they were really close. I mean, you know, I’m last night, like I’m just replaying the game in my head and I’m like so sickened, which is Yeah. And I’ll tell you, by the game itself, the way the game The ORC feels the same way, though. And from talking to people today, there isn’t a sense of, oh my god, it’s we’re so far. There’s a sense of like we’re right there, man. This year was the dumbest year. We walked uphill both ways for some reason, and we almost got there. Yep. So, everyone grow up. Let’s come back and let’s figure this out. Let’s come back and get it. I think the players feel that way as well, by the way. I mean, I think the players don’t look at this and go like, we need six guys to make our I think they look at there and go, we can do better. I know we can do better for sure. Uh, let’s get to some super chat tomorrow. By the way, I do want to talk about Tenzer, Adelman, and what the Nuggets have to consider as they start to move forward and some of the moving pieces. I think that’ll be interesting. But let’s get to our super chat. Can we have a game tomorrow? What do we do? We don’t have a game tomorrow. The league doesn’t start for a couple months. From Terrence Hall, finally became a diehard. Yes. Yeah, Terrence, let’s go. Hated watching the Nuggets Flame Out yesterday, but couldn’t think of a better place to watch it than the DNVR bar. Thanks for ping us up after the lost dine. Uh I will I will say this. Uh whenever people say they became a die hard, obviously you get the written content, but it also feels to me like we’re like it’s somebody saying, “Hey, I like you guys and think you should exist.” Yeah. But also, you should just do it because we like you and we want you to be entertained. Yeah, like you can think of it as a charitable expense, but you can also just think of it as a cool thing you can have in your life. Good, good. Well said, both of you. Joe Shay, yesterday, Adam, Adam Morris, yesterday. Yesterday morning. I see. I said, I said, “No matter.” Yesterday the exact same thing. Yeah. It was like I was so Yeah. Yesterday morning, I said, “No matter what happens, I’m happy we got this far.” I lied. I’m sad. MPJ for Middleton. Will Charich leave? Thank you guys for a great year. I don’t think MPJ for Middleton happens. Although, you never know, man. You never know. Like, you never know. I will say this, the Nuggets probably make some moves that I have no idea big or small. Some moves this year and I think they’ll all feel like MPJ for Middleton where you’re going to be like, is that better? Is it? We don’t know. But it’s I gota tell you, you better hope he leaves. I gotta tell you, like if you’re looking across the league at people who feel most frustrated with the way that this season went for them, the Cavaliers have to be at the top of the list. They did everything right. They got they made the big acquisition, but nobody actually thought the Cavs were going to win the I kind of briefly thought that they would win the East. I never You’re right to But I’m just They did. They thought that and they they did all Well, there’s there are some stories coming out that fracturing at the end of the year, which is weird. I know. But I’m just saying like you look at the when you look at what you want your organization to do to be active at the trade deadline to do like to go all in to get the right coach that like all the stuff. It’s just it’s hard out there in these streets fellas. Yeah, it is tough. Look man, every year 29 teams are pissed at the they all have to do this [ __ ] podcast. Yeah, Jay. One year ago after the game seven loss in true sicko fashion, I became a dieard. Jay, and here’s a play a plea from Jay to the chat. Become a diehard. Go to the bar and be reminded that people rock. Jay’s the best man. That’s a great line cuz it’s again it’s it’s community. I gave Jay a very hard hug. Then I knocked her off. There are like there are so many things about this world that suck. But like you come here for a Nuggets game in a packed bar and you’re just chilling with the homies and it’s like this world does suck, but not everything about it. I had I had a lot of these conversations that I mentioned and like guys were talking about how dope it is to come to the bar because you meet other people that are just screen names otherwise. And like you were meeting somebody at being on the same level to start with. The only place you could scream pregnant man and everyone’s like hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. No followup. Do not scream Do not scream that anywhere in the south. I’ll tell you that. Don’t do it. The DLLs bar. Yeah. Do not guys, we’re brand new network. Don’t scream that. Got to land this plane for for Jay though. She says, “Thank you, boys. It is truly not Denver to me anymore.” To be honest, that line when we set this thing out in motion, we wanted people to think that. The bestenver. That was our That was our tagline. We are Denver. It’s not Denver without DNVR. So, we appreciate it. You could live anywhere, right? Why live here? And you got the nuggets and I’d like to think you got us. Um, you’re like, I can’t move that online thing. More about Jokic than us, but we’re here too. Diz, thoughts on Kuminga. Flawed player, but big and athletic. Plus, Warriors don’t like him. And you’d be buying low. Maybe Jokic can fix him. I don’t know. I’m telling you right now, he is wrong in the for Denver in the exact direction. He is wrong for for Golden State. He does not understand team basketball, but he is incredibly talented individually. We’re already on to the come bucket that quickly. He wants to be on like a He wants to be a good He wants to be a bad team. Good stats guy. He probably like really hated being on the Warriors this year and really wanted to be on the Suns. Correct. Yeah. He’s like, I would get so many shots. Those guys over there. It’s what you want, dude. During my next during my pain scroll, since there were no joy scroll available last, uh like one of the first things that popped up, they were like, “Oh, the how to fix the nuggets. We just need to trade MPJ for Jeremy Grant.” I was like in the black circle. God damn it. We need Kevin Love. What do we need? Like AG for like Gary Harrison. My first draft. That could be anything. Is R.J. Hampton still there? Actually a damn Bones lasting longer than R.J. Hampton. Marco Martic. Well, kind of. Well, I guess one of them was good, but so maybe. Also, I think RJ Hampton was a year before him and I’m not sure if Bones will be there next year. Imagine they both have lasted another calendar year. All right, here we go. Marco Mart. It’s just a few months in and the DLS Mavs have already had the head coach on their podcast. Oh, fighting words here. DVR has been around way longer and still hasn’t had a head coach on. Marco, do you think we haven’t asked Michael times if he wants to come on the show? I’ll be honest with you, it became kind of a running bit that he was always like, I’m coming on to the bar. might have caught on to this. But can I also tell you that that podcast has Mark Stein on it. So bit of an inside edge. Also, by the way, I will say he said many times, I’ll come to the bar. I’ll see you guys this summer. We’ll all have beers. Never came. Never did. Never came. I’m saying Malone like there’s nothing to lose now, brother. So just come through, buddy. I bet you I’ll bet you we’ll get Adam. We’ll bet you we get Adam. By the way, if you dude, we’ll throw him a we’ll throw him a baby shower. Oh my god. If he gets the job, you will not find that funny. If he gets the job, we’ll officially throw up a baby shower. You guys, you will be so confused. Uh, all right. Here we Let’s get through the rest of these super chats. Oh, by the way, if you didn’t see, Michael Malone will be on ESPN covering the conference finals with ESPN. He’s going to be basically everywhere. So good. Can you imagine next year if the Nuggets made it? He was doing that. Holy F. That would have been insane. Yo, dude. Oh my god. Oh, they robbed us of this. Jose Ailez, I felt like they were two to three reliable players short, which is exactly what they lost after the ring. The BB Jay Green archetype is exactly what we are missing. I agree. I agree. How you find those extra guys and those guys are very Westbrook should have been Bruce Brown. He fell apart. Bruce Brown was available on day two of free agency. By the way, these guys, it’s not like the Nuggets got the even our first signing Jordan. That’s right. RP43 money ball it. MPJ’s dead weight and Jamal’s bad games are hurting more. Let’s [ __ ] DJ then. Let’s see what else that we forgot how funny that moment was and they won the title so f it. But that was honestly the ultimate like what go back and watch that that free agency special, but we’re live during it. The DJ news comes through and we’re all just like this is our first like that was the thing we had to get done at as the clock struck three o’clock. We know that’s not how it works. He did. He He did eventually say to me, he’s like, “Well, I think it was just the order that messed people up.” I’m like, “Yeah, man. It was just But anyway, there was that no need to announce that.” Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t even leave that. Just showed up on media day. We’re like, “Oh, DJ conference.” You’re like, “This this signing could have been an email.” And then, by the way, media day, DJ got there and one by one, we all just asked him like, “Do you think you’re going to die soon? You’re so You’re so old. Wait, are you sure you can still play? How old are you?” We lost him within the first five minutes. He’s like, I’m never talking to these people. Yeah. Okay, let’s do RB43 super chat. Right. Um, so is he money ball it? MPJ’s dead weight and Jamal’s bad games hurt more than what CB ag. Trade all five. Start over with the yoke. You have six more years. Oh my gosh. All right. All right. I do I just love the idea when you’re just like trade them. You’re like that’s not a one-sided thing. Our guys all suck. Can we trade? I know. Yeah. Hey. Yeah, it’s not working for us. New players, please. Let’s do MPJ for how closely did you guys watch the 2023 title run very closely. And you haven’t watched anything else since then, right? There’s going to be a lot of time to talk about trades this summer. I think the Nuggets try to do something big. It’s going to be really tough to do something big, though. I think it might depend on having a GM. Well, that that would be the move that should come. You think there’ll be some full-blown trades? Doubtful. full-blown trades. But I bet they kind of just run about Well, it may be harder to to trade than we think. But Pete says the vision was foolish and naive. The execution was worse. Malone is about wins. Can’t fault him for that. Real shame. Him and Booth acted like in I’m telling you though right now, I don’t know that that’s true. Malone was about wins. I think Malone left wins on the table for trying to be right about something. So that’s why I feel the way I feel. Pete, again, Zeke didn’t earn an extension. Charich signing horrendous asset mismanagement. The dead weight on the roster is an indictment on Booth. And here we are. Here we are. It is true though. Dead weight is that signing Hunter ties. Nobody ever everybody always complains about picket or something. I’m always like Hunter’s the guy that we have under contract. Probably the worst of those three for sure. I know. But he’s on a contract. Signing was a disaster for sure. The Nuggets having nine guys under Jeff Schwarz somehow and they’re all bad. You’re like, “Hold on a second. What happened here?” The Z contract. I I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems. Or it shouldn’t have been as bad as it seems, but now but now it’s bad. Yeah. If you ask Zeke who his least favorite person on earth is, I I bet you I know who it is. Me? Yes. Mike Penorthy. I think he likes Penorthy. Oh, 555ish. Jay Kerr. This is Fomy. Jay Kerr. Kudos to Vote. Great writing on the Gutsy article. Thank you, brother. Check. That’s not what that says. You just made that up. Vote in all sincerity. Did a great job all year. There’s a handful of people writing about the Nuggets right now. Like writing I mean telling stories about the Nuggets. None of them h know what Vote knows, right? Been here from the very beginning. And then on top of that he’s a great writer. So a lot of these stories are like people and I’m not trying to put anybody down. A lot of people can write in this narrow lens about this team. And maybe you’re a good writer, maybe you’re not. Vote is both a good writer and has the full perspective of this entire journey. If you’re subscribing to any place for written content, it’s to me it’s insane. Like throw out whatever you think of the outlet. There’s nobody that’s been along for this ride from the beginning to draw from. Everybody else is like fight cycles in and out. Come through and come out. Been here from the start. Yeah. Did a fantastic. After every vote piece that I read, I’m like, “Wow, that was like a whole story wrapped up into one, you know, a story that like from game one to game two to game three all wrapped up into one thing. You just you just learn something every time. Also made your uh hits better. I feel it all works together. Yeah, like your brain was clearer. You also just Yeah, you just have a sense of what it is you’re trying to say. Um, but anyway, thank you. And that’s what we try to provide at the D. That’s why you become a dieard. And once you become a diehard for this, you have access to everyone’s premium content across the whole site. You never know what other Denver beats might suck you in. So check it out. That is something great about DNVR though, just in terms of our writing. All our writers, for the most part, have been here for the long haul. Yeah. And a lot of our writers started with their teams when they were bad like we all did. So it’s it’s cool. I appreciate it. And I will also say which I know wasn’t your point. I’m just going to say it. A lot of uh really talented hardworking people on the beat too. Um who are doing great work. Sasha N MPJ Charich and Zeke for Paul George. We are man Paul. It honestly feels Did you see Paul George brought his podcast back? Did you see this clip he had? No. You guys, this might be something to talk about tomorrow. Dude, if James Harden is talking trash about you saying you’re losing to step away from podcasting to get his body right and now he’s back. Step away from podcast. Yeah, that’s why he had to step away last season. Some of the dieards in Philly crunched the numbers way better after a podcast. I’ll say this. I think Paul George is still supremely ch uh talented and a really good player and the last person on earth I want in the foxhole with me. Yeah, bro. Well, I mean yeah him Harden no Harden was looking down on him like dude that guy was a loser. You’re like Harden saying this talking about guys that I don’t want in the If Paul George was here with a grade two shoulder sprain he would be scoring negative points and still wouldn’t even be podcasting. Anyway, Michael Meyers don’t think we need to blow it up. Our starting five is statistically the best or near best year after year. We just need some three and D guys. Agreed. That’s why I’m optimistic. Here’s what I’ll say to that. And and I I agree with it for the most part. How couldn’t Don’t you think you could slot in some other guys to the starting five and they would still be at the top statistically of fiveman lineups. I think that’s one of the things we learned this year. Yeah, it’s a good point. But I I generally agree that the starting five is very good. Well, also I think the argument too is like well just add depth, right? But with the way the top five are paid and then Zeke, it’s really hard to do that. Um, so that but it I get it, man. Like that’s the thing we’ve been trying to say. They fell so well short. They are not that far away. Richard M. Nixon Gaming. Insane. If Trey Young is available, should we make the move? No. I don’t think you can win with Trey Young and I love Trey Young. I actually am not a Trey Young hater. I think he’s really good. I don’t think that duo can defend pick and rolls. No, this is like a gaming channel, but it whatever. I’ll ask you later. Kyle N. Hey, wind. Hey. Hey, Wind gets it this time. What’s up, Kyle? All right. Does it We went long today, Kale, but it’s the first day of the off season. We didn’t even get halfway through our blame. I know. We might have to continue our blame game part two tomorrow. Everybody full off season. No shortage of things to talk about. We haven’t those other pods out there that are talking that, you know, might take a little break right now. We don’t take breaks here. Are you kidding me? Stay two a days. Hit the like button on the way out. [Music] [Applause] We all silly like the Yeah.
The Denver Nuggets did not win the NBA championship this season and in a championship or bust era, everything short of that feels like a failure. Nikola Jokic is the greatest player the franchise has ever seen. Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. are on max contracts. Aaron Gordon and Christian Braun were great supporting cast members. So who is to blame for the Nuggets being in this position? The DNVR Nuggets podcast team debates that question while looking back at the last 2 seasons.
Adam Mares, Harrison Wind, Brendan Vogt, and D-Line Co. come to you LIVE from the DNVR Bar!
Start – 0:00
Championship or bust – 4:00
The blame game (Malone) – 26:45
Calvin Booth – 44:00
The Kroenke’s – 51:30
Jamal Murray – 56:00
Superchats – 1:02:40
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31 Comments
Most likely trade MPJ for depth and sign Bruce. The MPJ trade needs to get us a legit 3 and D. Not sure if I'd rather a screen navigator or a shot blocker
Malone to host the wcf according to nba central and espn?
Poor asset management is a gross misunderstatement.
One question, is it possible to cut any player with contract? Could this be the only option to clean the team?
Blow it up. Get Joker help after failing him for so many years.canr play 6 dudes all year long and expect to go far in play offs
Joker might leave the nba for Euro league
FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC FREE JOKIC
Porter has to go. Anyone who doesn’t see that is insane or doesn’t really understand basketball. I’m fine moving Murray and Porter but Murray’s contract is way too long.
Not one person picked Denver to do as much as they did. This is an odd headline except for the guy on the set that had Denver winning the Western Conference Finals or better.
I think about Boston in the 60s winning every year. After a while it would become meaningless. It's the fighting, failing and fighting on that matters. It's the tough losses that make the big wins feel so much better
There’s a Jamal chapter but no MPJ????????????
I’m so glad this pod has come around on Malone. They spent most the year clowning us fire Malone folks.
I would at least see what you could get for porter and murray in a trade.
Waive and Stretch Nnaji and Sarich when he opts in. Hope Westbrook declines his option. The problem is you might be able to trade MPJ but you will get bad players. Better to eat the last two years of his contract rather than trade for guys who have multi years on their deals. Critical we find a D and 3 SF who is $15 – $20 million on a long term deal. If somehow Keon Ellis goes RFA this season you do anything you have to do, top 3 defensive SF and a 43% 3 point shooter. Or maybe the Pels get dumb and we get Herb Jones from them….
Kroenkes refused to pay Tim and that's what caused all of this. I don't want to hear those bs stories about offers you can't refuse. If Wolves can offer something, Nuggets can match it. Period. So now your team is a mess because you hired a bum who destoyed evrything in two years while Tim built a legit 8 man rotation and might win a championship despite having to trade KAT because of ownership etc. It's because he is actually good at his job.
The second stop was KCP and if they paid him, Nuggets would win this championship. One more solid body and they win. It's that simple. All that second apron talk is bs because they just didn't want to spend. And what now? What did that "strategic sacrifice" result in? Paying CB 30+m.. they totally lost it. Jokić is cooked.
And now Mares will come up with some esoteric take about organizational allignment or some shit just like he did last summer, all in order to avoid simply saying – Kroenkes destroyed Joker's prime because they are cheap. He decided he has too much at stake, he got a business to run, so he will continue to sell wolf tickets and carry water.
I'm proud of this team! The players struggled and fought through 14 playoff games despite some bad injuries and an immature, unproductive bench which was caused by a management disaster. I feel really good about David Adelman and his astute leadership and look forward to his continued stewardship. I also believe that the Kroenkes made the right move, albeit much too late but had the guts to do it. Many Nugget fans will criticize me but I think that both Murray and Porter, Jr. need to go because of Murray's cavalier attitude about taking the first part of the season off and Porter Jr's inconsistency and non-clutch play. We need unselfish, team players who want to win for each other, and not players who dribble out the clock out (Murray) or others who fade away when they're most needed (Porter). I say all this while still noting improvement in these guys' games, but it's too little, too late. Dennis C..
Im convinced we can trade Jamal n porter for faster longer better defenders n.make a better team. We a lil slow
Porter n Jamal don't conduct themselves like max players
I think if you asked Booth today, he would probably tell you that you don't know if he was right or wrong because his plan never got to be played out. I'm not saying he's right, but based on my impression of him, he seems pretty stubborn, I would say he probably thinks that.
What can the nuggets actually do? how can they get better guys with those Max contracts? It's easy to say, trade someone, but another team has to want to take them…
I would keep Julokic, obviously, CB, AG. Hopefully, he can get back to himself, but I would definitely give him the chance. He is Mr. Nugget, after all. From the young guys, I don't know, maybe you give Peyton watson more time, maybe Pickett. The rest, if you can somehow trade them, I would, and I would trade Russ, too. I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets, like everyone in the media always likes to point to him. He seems like a good guy and brings great energy. But sometimes it's a little too much and doesn't fit well with the others, and sometimes his brain just isn't as fast as his body, man😂😂
It’s Booth’s fault for his horrible team building and roster construction and it’s Malone’s fault for not even giving the plan a chance to succeed by putting the young guys in terrible positions. All and all when you aren’t aligned organizationally it throws everything off. From the sound of things it was exhausting to deal with.
$ for $ Murray never came even close to earning his paychecks. Westbrook earned his paychecks several times over but you clueless a*holes finger point at him the most.
Jokic@clippers versus Doncic@lakers would make $LA$ worth more than the rest of NBA put together. Steve Balmer can make it happen and I hope that he does.
Calvin Booth, next question
Get rid of the ego maniac Murray, and empty head MPJ. Or just let the Joker go, dont waste that talent for nothing. Murray is the main reason why Nuggets can't make competitive team, his paycheck is a "stone to the neck" for this team. And it's so obvious that he is jealous on Nikola, because he realizes long ago that he is not the biggest star of the team, as it was predicted when they came to Denver. Just sad situation, wasting the money and talent.
MPJ' s role in this series was to draw a foul, or two.Injured or not, to score 2 pts.in two separate games is simply not acceptable.Murray is not consistent, and shows up when Denver is winning by a dozen ( or more points ) anyway, but
then he puts up 13 pts, ( with,what,3,4,5 turnovers) in game 7.The problem is, if I remember correctly,the same thing happened last time Denver played vs. Minnesota in game 7, when Denver had a handsome double digit lead.
love Jokic.
Murray is the biggest problem of the Nuggets for years!
It's sad that nobody don't realize that. The biggest mistake was long ago when they let Harris and some guys go and keep Murray, they locked up their budget with that move, everything else is just result of that mistake.
5:51 nuggets were never the Rockies, thats just not true.
They've almost always been a competive team-10 to 3 seed most every year…
Getting over the hump is hard in the nba.
It can't be run it back again, they need to add someone of significance to this roster to rejuvenate themselves and the fanbase. The past 2 off seasons have been huge letdowns with BB and KCP leaving in consecutive years.
Failure year because we didn’t get the chip but I feel a lot better about the year compared to last year
Maybe trade Jamal and PWat for Simon's, Grant, and Robert Williams? Idk trying to find ways to expand depth
Ownership!! Getting rid of Coach Malone was a MAJOR error. AND, Adelman is not the answer. They need to dump him for a bonafide NBA coach. Adelman doesn't demonstrate leadership … don't forget, Jokic felt like he had to take over coaching duties. That tells you a lot!