Marc Stein & Tim Legler On The State Of The Phoenix Suns

Marc Stein & Tim Legler On The State Of The Phoenix Suns

Usually these cold opens are witty, funny, none of that today. Let’s just get to Tim Leggler and Mark Stein. Psychos and sickos unite for another edition of the PHNX Sun Show. Coming to you live from downtown Phoenix. I’m Eric. That’s Stephen. Noah behind the Mac making all the magic happen. Do what Phoenix is doing on the screen. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button on well as well if you’re listening on audio. Of course, fivestar reviews are always greatly appreciated. Stephen. Mhm. Big big show today. That’s an understatement. I’m excited to get to it. Let’s go. I mean we got Tim Leggler. We got Mark Stein. Just to break things down for everybody. Tim Leggler was kind enough to pre-record with us early in the AM today. So, that will be a pre-recorded interview that will play for you first. Then, we’ll come back, we’ll take a break, and Mark Stein will be joining us. So, grab a snack, grab a drink, hit that like button, and if that’s not enough for them, Stephen, greedy, greedy, greedy. I also have a Cam Johnson interview that Espo and I were able to get over the weekend that is live on audio and video feeds in your PH andX Sports YouTube page. You know what we call our chat? What? Besides psychos and sickos. What do we call them? Spoiled. Spoiled. Get like a heel turn. Start calling the chat like spoiled brats or something. All of this in one episode. Who does that? I mean, it’s crazy. So, make sure you check out that Cam Johnson interview after this episode is over. And if Tim Leggler and Mark Stein aren’t worth the likes, then I don’t know what is. All right, I’ve teased you enough. Let’s get to Tim Leggler on the state of the Phoenix Suns from earlier today. There’s a lot going on with the Phoenix Suns off season. So, of course, we got to tap in with all NBA’s own Tim Leggler. Tim, we appreciate you joining us today. How you doing, legs? My pleasure to be on. I’m great, man. I’m great. How are you guys? You know, the off season has been treating us well. However, it did come a little bit early and now we’re in the middle of a coaching search and we’re just trying to make sense of it all. Obviously, the Sun season has been over for a while. You’ve been focused on playoff basketball, but now that this season has been left in the dust, what were your final thoughts on the 2024 2025 campaign from this team? Well, it’s um unfortunately, I guess, another massive underachievement. I mean, I how else can you really describe it? I think that sort of typifies what’s happened here the last couple of seasons and it’s really just a um difficult situation because they’ve had two different coaches over the last two years, both of whom had won championships in this league. So, they came uh well respected. They had proven that they could win. Each guy got one year, one opportunity to coach this team. Um, clearly the fit wasn’t great in either case for different reasons, but um, you looked at the talent on paper. I actually really liked the acquisitions that they made going into this past season. Thought that they improved their team. Uh, and you know, injuries played a part as they do with I feel like a lot of teams in this league. I talk about injuries way more than I would like to and how it affected and derailed teams or months for teams or the entire season in some cases. So yeah, that played a part, but we saw enough of a sample size with the group that they had to realize that it just doesn’t work. Like the chemistry is just not there. The connection to the head coach has not been there the last two seasons. Uh I didn’t think there was enough fight out of this group. Um, and I I caught a couple of Phoenix Suns games this year, so I was able to see it courtside and you could pick up on things when you’re sitting there more so than watching a game on TV. I didn’t think there was a ton of resolve out of this group. I didn’t think they handled adversity very well. Um, and I think that it didn’t look to me like there was just a great energy and vibe and connection on this roster with each other first and then also with the head coach. When you add all that up, you know, you get an underachievement based on the talent at the top of this roster. I don’t think there’s any other word for it. Tim, it feels like the clock has the time has ran out for this big three iteration for the Phoenix Suns. I’m curious, what are your thoughts on that subsegment of this team? And do you feel like they should go with a Booker centric roster or do you feel like some faction of that big three should still exist going into next season? I mean, if it were me, I think I would I would probably move toward the direction of the of the first part of that question, the Devin Booker centric team. I mean, that was a team uh that was able to get to an NBA final with Devin Booker as your centerpiece. you know, you don’t you don’t necessarily need three scoring stars in this league. Um, you know, one superstar, one all-star caliber scorer, and then a roster built around defense at depth, we’ve seen it, is good enough to win in this league. I basically just described the Oklahoma City Thunder. Um, I think I probably just described the Minnesota Timberwolves roster as well. Those two teams are playing for the right to go to the NBA Finals. They’ve got one superstar each, Anthony Edwards, Shay Gilis Alexander. They’ve got one co-star next to those guys, Jaylen Williams, and Julius Randall. And the rest of their roster is built around defense, depth, and guys that understand their role, willing to accept the role, stay in their lane, and seem pretty connected to their head coach. That’s what I just described. You’re not talking about teams that are just going out there. Um, you know, this isn’t the Warriors team with Kevin Durant on it that just overwhelmed you with talent that nobody could answer and had a great style of play as well. You know, that’s not what I’m describing here. And so, for me, taking that approach, I think, could be the way to go forward. Now, to do that, you’d have to look at moving Kevin Durant. You’d have to look at Bradley Beal waving his no trade clause and and and be willing to go somewhere else. He was unwilling to do that this past year. And look, I I still believe in Kevin Durant. Kevin that’s a great player. Kevin Durant can be a tipping point for a lot of teams in this league and winning a championship if he were to go there. I don’t think it’s going to happen with this group. Um so maybe even Kevin Durant now would be open to exploring, you know, greener pastures somewhere else. I’m not sure how Bradley Beal feels about everything now. Know how he felt about it in the moment. Didn’t want to wave the no trade. He maybe he’s maybe he’ll look at things differently over the summer. Does he want to come back to another dysfunctional situation and a team that’s going to underachieve and or does he want to go somewhere potentially where he can be a differencemaker on a team that’s playing relevant games, you know, later into late April and into May? So, for me, I think that’s a formula that is now proving that you can succeed within this league. You don’t need three guys anymore that are sort of ball dominant scoring type players. There’s other ways to go about it. You mentioned you still believe in Kevin Durant. Stephen and I also still big believers in what he can do going forward even at the later part of his career. Obviously the Suns gave up the farm to get him. Muel Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jay Crowder, all the first round picks you could possibly imagine. Where do you see Kevin Durant’s value going into this summer for maybe a team like a Houston or another one of these contenders that is desperate to make a win now move? There’s no question that Kevin Durant is the is the guy that some of these teams need. Like you look at Houston, you know, it’s amazing. I and it actually was a to me the strongest case for Eay Udoka for coach of the year. The fact that this team was second in the Western Conference in a loaded West, difficult conference, finished second, and we were like wondering like is anybody on this roster going to make an all league team? I mean, think about that. You can’t even identify necessarily who the best offensive player is on any given night. You got Alprin Shangun, you got Jaylen Green. Like, I don’t think either one of those guys are shoe in to make it all league team. So, they’re again a team built around their defense. Uh they’re younger guys particularly in the way that they defend. And then offensively, they’ve got a couple of guys that they build it around with the two I just mentioned. And then and then, you know, role players that on a given night, man, you don’t know who it’s going to be. They need a guy that’s more of a alpha offensive player that’s capable of going and getting you difficult buckets against great defenders and great defenses. Kevin Durant kind of describes that. You look at a team like the Orlando Magic. Yeah, they got two they got two big-time offensive forwards on that team, but and they’re great defensively. I mean, they’re as good as anybody in this league defensively outside of Oklahoma City. It’s not enough offensively. you know, you get into the playoffs, you’re having a difficult time getting to 100 points. That’s just not going to get it done in in in, you know, the modern era of the NBA. And I’m not saying that Orlando could make a move to get Kevin Durant, but there are teams out there that are young. Detroit’s another one, young, they’ve got some talent, enough because of their defense to keep them in the mix every night, but certainly not good enough to contend. Kevin Durant could be the difference maker on some of the some of those teams because he still is a guy that has an answer for any defense in front of him and that’s what those teams lack. Tim, kind of tying the playoffs and the teams that are actually in it with looking at the lens through the Suns. Uh you look at Carl Anthony Towns, you look at Miles Turner, you look at Rudy Goar, you look at Isaiah Hardenstein. These are versatile centers that give value on both ends of the court. For the Suns, that was probably their weakest point this season. How important is it to have a center that can kind of punch up in respect to the types of the centers that we just got done speaking to going forward? I mean, the versatility on that end of the floor is is really important. I mean, and it doesn’t mean that they’ve got to be necessarily a three-point shooter like a like a Miles Turner or Carl Anthony Towns, the two guys that you mentioned. Um it but what it does mean is that they’ve got to have versatility defensively that laterally they can even Mitchell Robinson you’re seeing you saw it in the Boston series like he’s a guy that you know I mean he struggles at the free throw line can’t make a shot outside of really a layup or dunk and yet he had massive impact in that series because laterally he can jump out onto a smaller player do a reasonable job containing containing them and if he is beat he’s athletic enough to track them to the rim and make a play and and his presence in there changes the way you view penetration against those teams offensively. You process it differently. So, he has an impact far outside the box score and what he’s generating. You need that. You definitely need that kind of versatility. Now, if you can also get in the case of Miles Turner, you can get, you know, great rim protection, an additional guy that can step out on a given night, give you 20 points because of his perimeter shooting. Great. I mean, those guys don’t grow on trees, and if you have one, you’re typically not getting rid of those guys, but I do think it it’s an area of upgrade for Phoenix. I mean, Nerkage is a guy that, you know, he can get you some defensive rebounds and get you on the offensive glass. He really struggles defensively. Plumbley is a guy that I like the addition of, but again, super limited offensively. It’s going to give you better energy to Nerkage. He can do a little bit more defensively, but just doesn’t give you the pop or punch on a given night. Um, and I think Phoenix viewed it as, well, we don’t need that because we got these other three guys that are going to get you, you know, on a bad night 70 and on a good night those guys might go for, you know, 90 to 100 points combined. Didn’t work out that way for them. And uh, because I don’t think the chemistry amongst them was great. So now those other spots on your roster become weak, glaring weaknesses. So I do think it is important. I think it’s something that they’re going to have to address. I just think for me looking at Phoenix more than anything else, they need to get some some tougher guys that want to build their identity on what they do to you physically and defensively and a lot of want to. They need more of that. There’s not a tough edge to the team. And I think that to me is is something that they need to look at going forward. OKC has it. M Minnesota has it. um Indiana and New York to a certain extent, but they’re so good offensively at times with their top guys. Even being, you know, mediocre or a little bit above average defensively is good enough because of how good they are offensively. So, you have to upgrade that. You’ve got to add some toughness to your roster. sacrifice some of the scoring potential and prowess and the names on the back of the jersey and go with more of an identity and a culture built around a couple of top guys that can score and other guys that stay in their lane and complete your team a little bit more. I mean, that to me is the blueprint. It feels like you are laying out a blueprint for what the Sun should do going forward. I know a lot of the fans perspective on what’s going on is very bleak, very dire, long-term views of it might take us a couple of years to get ourselves out of this hole. How long do you think it might take this team to turn it around and get back to just being fun, contending for maybe a bottom end playoff spot? I don’t think it’s as hard as people think. I really don’t. And one of the things you you’ve got to realize in this league. So take a look at for instance this blueprint though that I just laid out. Let’s go with Devin Booker as your as your top guy, your alpha. If you decide to move on from Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal, somehow you’re able to get out from under that. Deon Booker’s 28 years old. Your your prime in this league is like 26 to 32. I mean, he’s he’s in the early stages of his prime. So you’re talking about a guy at that age that’s going to be able to do things. And look, if you turn him into the alpha again, I mean, Deon Booker is going to be probably top five in the league in scoring. Um, if if that’s, you know, where where you want to, you know, unleash him offensively. So now you look at how you build your doing the things that I just said. One of the things you’ve got to remember now in the NBA, the seedings are really kind of thrown up in the air because of all of the injuries and the mistime. All of these teams have missed time and injuries. So, if you can stay healthy with a team that is tough and competes built around a couple of top offensive players because of the time missed that everybody seems to go through, if you can keep your team healthy, which Houston was able to do all year, look what it can do for you in the regular season. Sacramento went through this a few years ago. They were the third seed in the Western Conference primarily because their top eight guys didn’t miss any time. They didn’t have the most talented team in the Western Conference. They finished third though. Now they lost in the first round to a Stephen Curry led Warriors team where he had to drop 50 in a game seven on their court to get it done. So you’re but you’re in the mix. You’re relevant. Like you’ve got vibrancy, your pulse is beating. I don’t think it’s nearly as bleak as people make it out to be because of the age of Devin Booker, how good he still is. And if you move on and figure out a way to trade Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal can wave that no trade and you get back the kind of guys I’m describing, I think you have a chance to get relevant pretty quickly. Love that from you, Tim. Uh, any other questions, Stephen? Yeah, he said it all. He said it all. Unless he wants to talk playoff hoop, but I know we only got him for so long. And and we will ask you one question at the end about playoff hoop. I’m I’m not gonna ask you specifically to break down the list of nine assistant coaches that have been reported to be the finalist for the son. Thank you. Thank you. This is doing me a solid. I appreciate that. But as somebody who has been in the league and been around the league and seen a ton of assistant coaches come through and some of those assistant coaches get elevated to the head coaching spot, some of them have success and not. What is it that you would look for in an assistant coach that would tell Tim Leggler this guy’s ready to be the guy leading a roster in the main spot? Um, you know, se several things and I think first of all, let’s be clear here. If they don’t if they stand pat, um, I don’t know that going with an assistant coach that’s unproven as a head coach is the way to go with this roster. So, let’s assume that they don’t stand pat. They follow the plan that I just laid out. If that’s what they decide to do, I think maybe it can work. It’s a lot is going to be the buyin of Devin Booker to that particular guy. But what you’re looking for several things I think offensive ingenuity and creativity first of all, okay? It can’t just be high ball screen and then we’re going to, you know, spread it out, make decisions and play out of that. Not everybody’s got the talent to be Boston. So you you’ve got to you’ve got to have some offensive ingenuity and creativity with with your motion, your player movement, your ball movement so that guys can get a buy in right away. Man, this guy’s sharp. Knows what he’s talking about. Day one, day two of camp, it’s obvious that this guy knows how to maximize a team offensively. Great communicator. I think communication is key. A guy that’s relatable to to the roster. So, not a guy that comes off that he’s just giving you something where he’s trying too hard to connect to the players. It’s got to come natural charisma and communication skills really important. And then I think he’s got to have guys that he’s going to surround himself with his staff that understand defensive preparation because for me that’s the quickest way to turn this around and become relevant is change your identity into a team that can get physical and defend. Um and and I don’t know that may maybe hey maybe this guy you hire that’s his specialty and then he’s got to go hire offensive coaches to handle what I just said offensively. Um, either way, as long as the staff is able to supplement what the weaknesses are of of the guy that you hire, because very few guys are going to be great on both ends. They’re probably either a guy that’s been known as an offensive mind or a guy that’s great defensively this preparation. Then the staff has to supplement what he doesn’t do well. But the communication and the charisma are key, I think, right off the bat in connecting to the roster. Um, because you’re coming in unproven. you’ve never been in the in the hot seat and it’s a totally different feel, different level of communication with your team. So, it’s not an easy choice and and there’s got to be a buyin on the part of your top guy. And if you decide to stay with Booker and build around him, then Deon Booker probably has to have some buyin. Tim kind of to close things out for you here. Um not gonna ask for predictions per se for these conference final series, but maybe what’s one thing in each series that you’re kind of looking forward to watching develop as these series get rolling in today? I will tell you this going into the final four here. I think it’s the first time that I can remember 24 years of of getting to this point in the season at ESPN that I can honestly tell you I will not be very surprised at all by any combination of these four teams ending up in the finals. If if I had to lean one way or another, it’d be Oklahoma City and Indiana. And the reason I would say that is because I think Indiana right now, when you look at the the playoff body of work for all of these teams, Indiana’s had what I would call the cleanest sheet, meaning they’ve played the closest to their best that I saw during the regular season, the most consistently in their playoff run. They’re eight and two in the playoffs, and of those 10 games, they have been as more consistently close to their best level of play. So, they’re clicking right now and their offense is incredibly difficult to defend. This is a totally different animal than what the Knicks saw in the last two series, particularly in the Boston series. Boston is going to be high ball screen or ISO, break you down with individual talent, and then spread you out and shoot 40 to 50 or in case of game one, 60 three-point shots. Um, that’s not what Indiana’s going to do. They’re going to play fast up the floor. You got to have a state of readiness much earlier in the clock against Indiana. There’s got to be a level of physicality on cutters and on Tyresese Hallebertton that has to be there at an even higher level than Boston because of the way they move the ball, how quick and smart they are with their decision-making, the number of guys that can shoot it, and mainly the engine. Tyus Hallebertton. If you’re not physical with Tyres Hallebertton up the floor, jamming up where he catches the outlet passes because he catches those things 30 35 feet up the floor sometimes, even after makes. He’s a master at catching the ball on the move going toward half court so that he’s in the scoring area. I think he does it better than any player I’ve seen since Steve Nash at catching outlets up the floor with movement. It’s really an art form. Most point guards run back to get the ball. It slows everything down. He’s always moving forward. So now you’re you’re the pressure put on you in the first six seconds of the clock is totally different than any team in this league. So therefore that requires a higher level of state of readiness. Cross matches they’ll they’ll just torch you if you get into a cross match situation against them defensively. So the key for the Knicks jam him up in the back court. Jam him up as he comes over half court tries to get that first brush screen 40 feet out. That’s where he wants to start going. You’ve got to be up in him. Bump him. Hit him. the guy guarding him, the guy helping on the screen. Tyresese Hallebertton is the key to the whole series. If Tyresese Hallebertton has freedom of movement in this series, and he gets into a rhythm, Indiana has got a great chance of playing in the NBA Finals. If the Knicks can get physical with him and limit him and attack him on the other end, maybe get him in foul trouble, make him work really hard to guard to guard Brunson or guard ball screens, if they can get switches, I think the Knicks have having the upper hand. But so for me, it’s Hallebertton, man. That’s the key to the whole thing. It’s impossible to not get smarter when listening to you legs. We do really appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule to talk about the lowly Phoenix Suns with us. Of course, you can catch Legs on the AllNBA podcast on ESPN breaking down all the games, just everywhere talking basketball legs. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Appreciate you guys having me. Remember, I was a son for a very brief time, but I was a son. So, I all I got to say to Suns fans is just like Annie said, the sun will come out tomorrow. You know what I mean? It’s not the end of the world. You got a lot of talent on that team and you could do either keep it and figure it out with a new coach or and surround change the supporting cast or you move on go forward with Booker and I think there’s a blueprint forward around him and in a different culture and identity and also Oscar League actually could be the best thing to happen to Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal as well. Maybe they get opportunities to go somewhere and be relevant and contend if they end up in a healthy situation. So I I think it could be a win-win for everybody associated with the Suns. No, I’m wishing there was another name added to that. A potential head coaching list and I’m talking to him right now. We appreciate it, Legs. Take care of yourself. We’ll speak to you again soon. You got it. Good talking to you. God, that guy is so smart. So smart. It’s so much fun listening to Legs Talk, Stephen. We’ll react to what he had to say. Talk a little Ryan Dunn as we await Markstein calling in live here in just a couple of minutes. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button. It’s PHX Suns and we’ll keep it going right after our first break. Everybody needs a checking account. It’s just the truth. There’s no way to get around it. And that’s why you want a checking account that has perks just for you. Of course, I’m talking about the built-in benefits with Mountain America’s My Style Checking account. Make My Style your lifestyle. Net lifestyle will hold things like restaurant deals, mobile phone protection, teleaalth access, identity protection, loan rate discounts, offers on travel and events, and even more. Spending money is e is easy. Saving money is hard. 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Well, there’s a lot to unpack from everything that he shared with us and obviously everyone in the chat was privy to that conversation. So glad y’all were able to enjoy it. It’s hard to decide on one specific thing. So, I’ll just pick one and I’ll go with the center conversation. You can’t ignore the starting center position in today’s NBA. And by that same measure, you also can’t go with one specific type of center that’s in your room and expect to be able to go compete for a playoff a playoff spot, let alone contend for a championship. Um, I think everybody heard the question that I asked as far as the four centers in the starting room of each team. He mentioned those names and he also took it a step further and mentioning obviously Mitch Robinson and the values that he adds. Not always about three-point shooting, though it is something that helps, but you can have impact as a center in the modern NBA. doing other things on the on the court that might not always show up on the box score, but truly help a team ecosystem, add value to that system, and make things a whole lot more dynamic. I think what stood out to me the most was multiple times almost reassuring that the light at the end of the tunnel is not as far away as you think. Obviously, the Annie quote at the end was funny. The sun will come out tomorrow. But he broke it down in different reasons. I also loved what he said about Houston, saying Houston needs Kevin Durant and them acting like they don’t is ridiculous considering they don’t have a number one offensive option. Absolutely loved that because of course it drives Kevin Durant’s value up, but it also kind of justifies what we’ve been saying here about Houston being the number one contender to be trading for him for both sides. They have prospects and picks that the Suns would want and Kevin Durant is somebody that they should want as well. also bringing up somebody like an Orlando as well and breaking down where the game has gone. I like what he said and all of that. Uh the one thing though that I really, really, really want to focus on when it comes to legs was him saying that this team just wasn’t tough last year and saying that’s the number one thing that they need to fix. Whether they hire an already existing head coach, they promote whatever they do. If they keep Kevin Durant, they keep Bradley Beal, they keep Devin Booker, Stephen, he said they need to get more tough players. Did you agree with that assessment? I mean, a billion percent. All the players that I mentioned they should have been targeting or looking at as buyou candidates prior to the the expiration of their regular season align directly with that. All of the targets that I’ve spoken to in terms of free agents or trade targets that they should be looking to bring into their team context going forward directly align with that as well. Whether it be specific to a certain position or just generally with the the disposition that they bring to a team. Those things matter. And if you’re talking about trying to get back into the playoff race, the most recent example, I think the toughest team in recent memory uh was a 21 Finals team. And you look at the personalities before that literal skill that those players were bringing to the court. And that never give up and that we’re not going to blink and budge because you went on a 70 run type of mindset is something that reverbs for a team that’s tough. That team was tough. The teams since the 22 season, 21 22 season haven’t been the toughest. And I feel like some of the inconsistencies that we’ve seen, the lack of resolve in multiple respects stem from that. Mark Stein could be calling in any moment here. So, if he does, we could put a pin in this conversation, but for now, you mentioned toughness, we mentioned defense, all of that. Well, the Suns had somebody that brought that last year, and that somebody of course was Ryan Dunn, who in my opinion did get snubbed from the all rookie team, not a first team, not a second team selection, barely receiving any votes, actually behind Ron Holland and overall votes, which is just ridiculous. And the Suns didn’t play him, which is part of the reason why he did not get this first or second team all rookie selection. Do you feel like if Ryan Dunn got a fair shake this season, we’d be talking about him today making one of the all rookie teams? Well, if he got the minute aotment that he his talent certainly suggested and passed his individual talent, the literal team begged for in a literal sense with Booker and Durant, but also in terms of their lack of defense and that being what he was the best on the team at, especially on the perimeter. There was just such an organic match from minutes in terms of fit and role and opportunity for this team. that just wasn’t infused nearly enough to impact winning in the ways in which it could have. So, because of those reasons, yeah, I think he could have got a lot more attention for one of these two all rookie teams. It would have certainly had he would have certainly made it tougher on the people that do vote as far as that goes. Absolutely. Make sure you guys hit that like button. Make sure you’re subscribed to PHNX Sports. We are getting Mark Stein on the line. How about that? Stein on the line. I think I just came up with that. uh by myself here. Make sure you guys are all tapped in again. Ryan Dunn not making the all rookie team, but we’re not going to be talking about Ryan Dunn with DLLS’s and of course his own substacks, Mark Stein. Make sure you guys are ready and prepared. All right, we ready, Noah? All right, let’s get to it. Now, welcoming in Mark Stein of DLLS and of course the Stein Line. Mark, how you doing? I’m good, gent. How are you guys holding up? We’re doing all right in the offseason. We’re we’re hanging in there. We’ve got a coaching search that we are more than locked in on. I know that you were reporting over the weekend some of the names that have moved on to the second round of the Phoenix Suns coaching search. Where does that interview process and everything stand as of today? Well, basically they’re just getting the second round going. I mean, you guys know that the estimates have been 15 candidates in the first round, maybe more than 15 in the first round. So, we have eight or nine coaches who’ve moved on to round two. And ultimately, I think what you’re going to see happen is this is going to get narrowed down to three finalists or so, and that’s the point at which ownership would get involved. And look, there’s a lot of very accomplished assistant coaches who are still under consideration here. Micah Nory from Minnesota, you know, he’s a coach whose team is still playing. So, you’ll see Micah Nory on the Wolves bench later tonight when the Wolves are starting the Western Conference Finals in Oklahoma City. Chris Haynes, my old podcast partner, he says that Oklahoma City’s Dave Bliss has advanced to this round as well. So that’s two coaches who are still in the playoffs. And then you have a slew of coaches who’ve team whose teams have already been eliminated. Sean Sweeney from Dallas, Steve Hetszel from Brooklyn, James Bergo from New Orleans who’s been a head coach before, Jordan and Johnny Bryant from the Cavaliers are still under consideration. And then I think people were surprised a bit that David Fdale’s name was included here and that he’s part of this group of coaches in the second round. My sense on that though is I get the feeling that David Fale is still in this mix because the Suns are hoping that he would stay on and join the staff of the coach they ultimately choose as Mike Buden holds her successor. Mark In alignment with the head coaching search and the way that the list has condensed and the way that it will continue to over the next couple of days, if not weeks, are there any particular names that stand out or any unique stories for specific names on this group that you would like to share with our audience? Well, it’s funny since kind of this list of candidates have emerged since it since it it started going around at the weekend that the Suns had reached the point that this was now going to round two and it with several coaches I’ve heard, you know, coach X has a real chance here, coach Y has a real chance here, coach Z feels pretty good about their chances. So, I think all of the coaches who have gotten to this point, or at least the majority, think that they are in with a real chance here. I mean, look, Sean Sweeney is someone that I cover at pretty pretty close range here in Dallas, and he was a finalist for the Detroit last year, and a lot of people thought he was going to get that Pistons job because he had been in Detroit before, and then JB Bickerstaff became available, and that was kind of a surprising development last year where the Cavaliers let JB Bickerstaff go and then the Pistons had a chance to hire him. I mean, it’s just weird the way it worked out that the Cavs got off to this crazy 15-0 start and gave Kenny Atkinson this tremendous head start in the coach of the year race and then what happens his closest competition is the coach he ends up replacing in JB Bicker Staff. I think Sean Sweeney is going to be a real factor in this. I think Micah Nory, you know, he was involved in multiple coaching searches last season. you know, he had to stand in and actually coach for Chris Finch last season in the second in in the second and third round of the playoffs because of the injury that you guys saw Chris Finch sustain in that Phoenix series, which was just crazy. It’s only the second time in franchise history that the Wolves had gone to the conference finals and the head coach the injury wave was so bad last season in the playoffs that even coaches weren’t safe. And then look, I think there is a fair bit of curiosity both about Jordan and Steve Hzel because they have Michigan State ties and I’m guessing I don’t need to clue PHNX Suns on the connections that we’ve seen Michigan State alumni when it comes to getting jobs in that organization. So, um I I you know I I have not heard anybody try to suggest so and so is the favorite at this point. I think there are too many candidates still under consideration for that kind of talk. But I mean it is interesting that with the exception of James Berago who’s been a head coach before and David Fisdale who’s been a head coach before, if it’s not one of those two, it’s going to be a firsttime coach. And we’ve heard from the start that that’s the way the Suns were approaching this, that they wanted to go with a firsttime coach, which, you know, that is interesting in itself because the last two coaches have certainly been from what you would describe as the veteran category. Last one on the coaching search for me. Our chat has been asking it and a lot of people online have been asking about a couple of names that were left off. Specifically, Royal Ivy and Sam Cassell, two very respected longtime assistant coaches. Do we know if they did get an initial interview or any reasons as to why they were not selected to move on to the second round? I’m pretty sure Royal Ivy did. I’m less sure, frankly, on Sam Cassell. I would have to do some more reporting there and and find out. But I I can’t say that Sam’s name I can’t say that I I heard it in the early stages of this search. And I’m with you in terms of surprise. I mean, Sam Cassell has done everything you possibly can do as an assistant coach and why he’s not getting stronger consideration given the strong rapport that he builds with star players everywhere he’s been. I I share the chat room surprise there. the Royal Ivy name. Obviously, I think I know why that’s coming up as a question. There was a thought that if Royal Ivy advances in this search, it would suggest, and I think we underline suggest that maybe the Suns are more open to keeping Kevin Durant than has been anticipated. The fact that Royal Ivy did not advance in this coaching search, you know, that’s only going to embolden those who believe that the Suns will be exploring every conceivable Kevin Durant trade option that they have this off season. Well, I think you just lobbed that off the backboard to me, Mark, because my next question for you is going to be, uh, do you have any updates on the Kevin Durant situation? Well, I can only lob it to you. Believe me, I’m not I’m not the one who’s going to be in going to be going up to get it. I was a decent I was a decent lob thrower many many years and many many pounds ago. So, um I know that’s probably hard that’s probably hard for people to believe. Um look, it’s it’s still way early. You know, I know there was the chatter this week about Philly and having possible interest. When I’ve checked out that scenario, it’s been strongly debunked to me. I I do not think Philly is in the market for trying to pursue Kevin Durant. At least that’s that that’s Sorry. Sorry. Sorry about in the market. Of course, I just hit the wrong button. Uh my bad. Um so yeah, I I don’t foresee the Sixers emerging as a candidate there. Um, look, I think there’s really nothing new at this point there. The consistent word on this has been that the Suns and team Durant are going to work together on a possible resolution if that is indeed the direction they’re going to go. I think it’s fair to say that is still the anticipation around the league, that that is the direction that they’re going to go. But also, I think Brian Gregory was pretty clear at his press conference when he took over that focusing on the coaching search is step number one. And given the sheer number of candidates that the Suns have been considering, again, still in round two, it’s eight or nine depending on whose list you want to go by. So that’s still a lot and I think that is the focus. It’s probably not the answer you guys want. I’m sure you would love to know today on whatever what is it today? March May 20th to have ultimate clarity on this, but I I do I do get the belief that they’ve got to get the coaching situation nailed down first. around the league though I do think the anticipation is ultimately that there is going to be a Kevin Durant trade sweep stakes if you will but also another variable here it’s the Jiannis Antenna Kmpo situation that is going to be front and center and I think among externally other front offices they’re really waiting for that clarity Because obviously if Giannis does become available and to this point we don’t have a firm indication if that’s actually going to happen. You know last week was build that oh it was going to be this big you know there was going to be a big development on the the Giannis Antakmpo front in conjunction with the draft combine in Chicago. It did not play out that way. So we still don’t have clarity on exactly how Milwaukee is going to approach Giannis’s future. I think that has to play out first before teams are really going to think about surrendering assets for Kevin Durant. So, that’s another variable here that we got to keep an eye on. We know we can’t get clarity, but we do appreciate the clarity on the 76ers side of things because that’s something that we’ve been thinking about diving in a little bit deeper on. There are a couple other teams that are still playing basketball right now. OKC, Minnesota, Indiana, New York. Obviously, those teams feel like they’re in a good spot, but is there any underlying sense that if an OKC or any other team has a disappointing final conference final round that they might have some interest in Kevin Durant to push themselves over the hump next season? I can only put Minnesota on that list and that’s only because Minnesota has been a Kevin Durant pursuer before. At the trade deadline, the Wolves definitely did look into Kevin Durant’s availability. Now, the Wolves had apron issues and it would have required Cap Gymnastics for them to even be able to make a real offer and it never got to that point, but the Wolves interest in Durant in February, that was something that was confirmed. Now, they’ve had such a good playoff run and this team has kind of come together. I don’t know that we can characterize the Wolves in the same way cuz I mean, they’re in the conference finals for the second year in a row. What happens if they win the West? What happens if they go to the finals? What happens if they win at all? I mean, these are still questions that can’t be answered on May 20th. And I think we have to see how it plays out to get a refreshed updated feel for where the Wolves stand. The Wolves, I mean, since Tim Conny’s been there, you know, they are not afraid to take big swings. I think they’ve shown that to us on multiple occasions. I mean, you know, I’ve written it a couple times, most recently this Sunday. This season was absolutely surprisefilled with the trades we saw, the firings we saw. I mean, it has been one of the wilder seasons in memory. This past trade deadline was as active a trade deadline as I’ve ever covered, and this was my 32nd season. But don’t forget, it all started with the Wolves on the weekend before training camp trading cat to the Knicks. And this was the Wolves making this trade after the most successful season they’d had in 20 years. And I think that trade almost gets forgotten because we saw so many more trades during the season. But when you think about it, that trade really set the tone for the kind of roller coaster it was this 2024 25 season. any updates on a potential Devin Booker extension? I know that that was floated out there a couple of weeks ago. Is there anything you’ve heard on that front? Nothing new beyond around the league. I think teams still look at Devin Booker not being available. I think the Suns and Devin Booker have both made it pretty clear they want to carry on together. So I think now look will will will a team or two or three test that resolve? Probably. I mean teams love to make those calls even after the Suns might say I mean Ishbia the last interview he did I think it was with Tim McMahon from ESPN. I think he stated and I think even at excuse me at the press conference I mean he was that’s that’s the most recent interview when he when he had his end of season press conference I think Matt Ishp has been pretty clear that the Suns do not want to move Devin Booker but will that ultimately scare teams off? I guess we’ll see. Thank you so much Mark for taking some time out of your busy schedule. I know a lot’s going on over in Dallas with the draft lottery and everything else that’s happening over there, but thank you so much for taking some time talking to us, talking to our chat, providing some clarity on the so many different problems that we have to solve this off season. Something tells me we will be talking again soon as the coaching search goes from 8 to three and ultimately three to one. Well, we absolutely welcome it all the time. Of course, if you are not following Mark, you can follow him at the Steinline on socials. You can read his Substack where he reports things like who are the next candidates for the Phoenix Suns head coach Kevin Durant trade rumors and much more than that. Plus, of course, he is over at DLLS contributing to their Mavericks podcast and writing over there as well. A man of many trades and we appreciate appreciate him taking some time with us. Take care, Mark. All right, guys. Take care. Be good. Yes, sir. All right, everybody. We appreciate y’all tap in with us. just about 300 of you on a Tuesday afternoon in the middle of May for a team that was eliminated over a month ago. The true psychos, the true sickos. Hit that like button for Tim Leggler if you missed that. That’s earlier in the show. Hit that like button for Mark Stein. Hit that subscribe button because you love the type of content we’re bringing you here at PHNX. We’re going to give you some more thoughts on what Mark had to say, more thoughts on Ryan Dunn, and wrap up this Tuesday right after our final break. 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One pair of tickets per household with valid driver’s license to July 6th game versus Kansas City Royals while supply of 200 tickets last. Plus, we look at the floor of the Phoenix Suns and right now it’s dirty. Right now, it needs a nice makeover. And I think the Phoenix Suns should be calling Empire today. Not just because they can give them $350 off. And with that luxury tax and the second apron, boy, could they use $350 off, but also because they have flooring professionals, flooring experts who actually care about you. actually care about your home and your flooring. It’s not a big box store that you walk in, you feel lost, nobody helps you, you pay an exorbitant amount of money, and then they say, “Either you could install it on your own or we can help you out if we could fit you in. How about 6 to 8 months from now? Not with Empire today.” No, no, no. Inhome estimate today. You could schedule uh installation as soon as tomorrow. That’s it. Schedule a free inhome estimate today because some things are just better off at home. PHNX listeners can receive a $350 up discount for using promo code phnx. Restrictions apply. Visit empireday.com/phnx for full details. Connor, Boom Shakalaka, Sean, Teddy, Wow Factor, Judith, Rich Dog, everybody hanging out with us here on a Tuesday afternoon. But Stephen, we’re hanging out too. Sean said he’s waiting on the Diamondbacks game, so he decided to come kick it with us. Great investment of your time, Sean. We appreciate you. We hate the Dodgers. That is Oh, that’s who’s in town. Well, I mean, yes, but also just any day. This is We hate the We hate the Dodgers. Very true. Even me and my Chicago tires. You hate the You do hate the Dodgers, right? We are not fans. You are not allowed to be in this building. Mhm. If you like the Los Angeles Dodgers, you said just Los Angeles, period. Yeah. Or Los Angeles, period. Noah, Los Angeles, check. Oh, I absolutely love them. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I know you don’t. It’s like the antithesis of Detroit sports is Los Angeles sports. Big Blue. Yes, sir. Yeah. Cubs fan, Stephen. Not a White Sox fan. Steven likes winners. Okay. Correct. Speaking of winners, two winners of interviews there. We already broke down what we heard from Leggler. How about what we heard from Mark Stein. Anything stand out to you? Um, cuz I got something. The head coaching part obviously. Yes. um names that weren’t included and potential reasons why. Um but also obviously the the the field of names that are involved now and what we can kind of expect as far as things that stood out. No one really having a proverbial leg up, no pun intended with Tim Leggler being on earlier, but just looking at it from that lens and understanding that it’s going to take a little bit of time, but they’re working through things slowly. Yeah, chat picked this up. No mention of Chris Quinn when it came to the names that he thinks might move on to the next round. He threw Sean Sweeney in there who’s been a longtime assistant with the Mavericks and everything as well. Looks like we’re getting we’re getting Espo on real quick here. What’s up, Espo? Yeah, I actually just talked with Stein. He wanted me to let you guys know that Quinn is involved as Jake reported. He just kind of got lost in the shuffle. I was going through the names, but Quinn is part of it. Uh, so don’t I saw the chat uh getting a little worried and I heard you mention it. Just want to let you know Stein is saying he is part of it. He just forgot to mention him. Espo to the rescue. Taking a break from his GMly duties to come sluming out with us here on PHNX Suns. Thank you Espo for that clarity. So that’s good news. Good clarity. Good clarity. I think the clarity that I appreciated before we hit a trade machine to uh Thursday this week is the 76ers news. how he said that there is no truth to the fact that they would be interested in Kevin Durant. Now, that does suck because I was having some fun, maybe talking myself into Lowry Markin, the number three overall pick. I I was in on what that trade could potentially be, Stephen. According to Mark, that’s most likely not the case. Well, I mean, maybe it’s not him going directly to Philly. True. But we all know that multi-team deals are likely what’s going to get that job done considering how large of a contract Kevin Durant has and the multiple moving pieces that will have to be around to facilitate that. Obviously with multiple teams also being constrained in some capacity by these uh silly aprons and everything CBA related. So it’s going to take multiple partners to dance with the Suns if it is that they decide that they want to go forward with a Durant trade. So, I don’t think it’s necessarily off the table. It just kind of complicates things a little bit more. It definitely complicates things a little bit more. I I was a little shocked to hear Philly would be willing to move off the number three pick. Me, too. For Durant, so that does make a little bit more sense. Now, maybe that would include trying to get off of Paul George is also the reason why they would be willing to do that. But, appreciated that clarity for Mark Stein. Anything else that you want to just revisit before we dive into a little Ryan Dunn talk? Good. I think Mark spoke very detailed for us all. Live live. I think that’s important. Again, you all are spoiled. So, so are we for being able to even talk. Yes, we’re spoiled. The chat spoiled. Everybody’s spoiled for sure. Yes. No is spoiled. I’m spoiled. I didn’t like how you said that. You sound like you was sick, not spoiled. I’m spoiled. I’m spoiled indeed. Ryan, done. Do it. Yeah, do it. Ryan Dunn was left off of the allNBA rookie teams. Now, let me just pull those up really quick so I can tell everybody who made it. Uh that’s what I was about to get to before Marco and I’m not here to like get ridiculously angry about the all rookie team. No, but if we’re saying if Well, if you’re saying that he should have made it, if people are saying that he was snubbed, no different than we do with Allstar. No different than we’re going to do with MVP. No different than we’re going to do with the allNBA teams. You have to take someone off. So state your claim. First team, Stefan Castle, Zachary Reach, Jaylen Wells, Zack Edy, Alex Sar, Noah’s Nightmare. Second team, Mus Pelis, Bub Carrington, Donovan Klingan, Kel Wear, Eve Missy. Here’s the thing. With the season that Ryan Dunn had at the end of the day, he did not deserve to be on that team. That I am willing to say. However, if Ryan Dunn was allowed to play the entire season and grow the entire season and maybe these voters care about perimeter defense and what the Suns might have looked like if Ryan Dunn was able to play, I think that he could have been in this conversation. I think he could have made the second team. And that just goes back to Bud. Just Bud. Yeah, I agree. I think snubbed and who you’re speaking to snubbing done from this potential opportunity if that context is appropriate and it’s aligned with the head coach I think that makes it make more sense. If the snubbed adjective is what you want to use as far as why he didn’t make it. So if that’s the lens you’re speaking to it through not just you just generally everybody then from that lens I would certainly agree. his his potential suggests that he could have easily been part of one of these two teams. And sure, if he had the time to grow through 82 games like we expected from where he was earlier, where he would have finished the season would have had him in the conversation of if there was a fake third or fourth team AllNBA, he would have been in that conversation of those types of names. All rookie, not all NBA. No, no, no. I’m saying if there was a fake alldefensive team. Oh, got a fake third and fourth team defense. Yeah, he would be. Okay. I was like, “Man, you’re really high on Ryan Dunn, huh?” 13 all NBA Ryan Dunn in his rookie year. I also want to point out because people will point to when Dunn officially got like nixed from the rotation as that’s the moment that messed with Ryan Dunn. I look at a couple months before that where it was this really hot stretch at the beginning of the season, Ryan Dunn shooting the leather off the ball, man. It is just crazy. And then his minutes dip and then his minutes become inconsistent. They’re up and they’re down. They’re up and they’re down and he’s not exactly getting a consistent shake on the court, but he’s still in the rotation. You’re starting, but you’re not playing starters minutes. That weird stuff that we felt like was going on with not just him, but a lot of players on the Suns. That then leading up to an unceremonious basically two-monthlong absence from the team and then to get thrown back in at 10-second spurts, 15-second spurts, two second spurts, and then gradually more and more through injuries getting put in that. It was all Mike Boonhozer. At the same time, you should be happy walking away from this and saying Ryan Dunn still looks like he’s a productive player. He looks like he took it all in stride and I would not be surprised if Ryan Dunn made an alldefensive team next year. Mhm. Not at all. And of the coaching names that are involved with this with this second round and even even more particularly the names that we both have kind of touted as the ones that we would like to see most. Speaking of Quinn and Bryant in particular, now speaking specifically for Bryant on my end because that’s who I would like to see most at this moment. Seeing the things that Cleveland did with Isaac Aoro, a player that’s come from a similar cloth to Ryan Dunn, a player that has some of the same struggles in terms of how defense reacts to him when he has the ball on offense or when he’s on the court on offense. I would love to see how a coach navigates those waters gets more out of him and then also infuses and uplifts all of the value that he adds defensively. Yeah, I think having a defensive minded coach with a player that matches that the ways that Ryan Dunn does is going to really take things to another level and expedite his learning curve. 100% agree with you. Excited for what the future can bring with Ryan Dunn. No second team all rookie this year, but you know what? We’re letting that go, Stephen. That was in the past. And now, PHNX Suns, we’re looking at the future. Which is why tomorrow we are extremely excited. We’re going to have another talk about spoiled. Another special guest on for our first official draft deep dive episode. We’re going to be looking at four prospects the Suns could take at the end of the first round and four prospects they could take at 52 as well. Super excited. Stephen was able to get us a great guest, very knowledgeable about the college game. You’re going to want to check that out. If you’re just joining us now, Tim Leggler, Mark Stein earlier in this episode. We’ll also be clipping those interviews for audio and for video. Thank you all so much for your support on today’s episode and for tuning in. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button as well. You can follow us on socials, phnx_sons. Shout out Noah behind the Mac, making all the magic happen. Getting up early with us this morning to produce the Tim Leggler interview and everything else that’s come on. Beyond that, thank you so much to Lil Uzi Nover. Of course, you can follow Stephen at Steven PG3. Oh, Leo. Uh, is Rudy Gobar the special guest? No, he’s a little preoccupied right now. Rudy Goar not the special guest. And if you’re watching on TV, the party always continues over at gophnx.com. But no, really overtime today because we’re getting out of here. You can follow Stephen at Steven PG3. Don’t call him Steve because Stephen is with a ph. You can follow me at Rik Rub Y. and me. I’m going to go tell my parents that I made Tim Leggler laugh today. We’ll talk to you guys tomorrow.

DLLS’ Marc Stein & All NBA’s Tim Legler join PHNX Suns to take a look at where the Phoenix Suns stand this offseason, from a Kevin Durant trade, to who the next coach leading the franchise should be.

Stephen & Erik dive deep into Devin Booker, Bradley Beal & KD’s fit together, Phoenix’s coaching search, the future of the franchise and more with two of the most respected names in the NBA media community.

Does Durant have a future with the Suns? Who would be the best coach for the rest of Devin Booker’s prime? Does Bradley Beal have a spot on this team, or in this league, going forward? The crew dives into it all!

Follow the show @PHNX_Suns, @ErikRuby & @StephenPG3!

0:00 Intro
3:00 Tim Legler Interview
26:15 Breaking down what Legs had to say
30:00 Ryan Dunn snubbed
31:30 Marc Stein joins the line
51:00 Breaking down Stein
54:00 More on Ryan Dunn

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