Sam Smith Shares What To Expect for the Bulls Offseason

Sam Smith Shares What To Expect for the Bulls Offseason

Welcome in everyone. You’re listening to Bull Central. Uh we’ve just wrapped up the week of the draft combine. NBA Finals are around the corner, then the draft, free agency, all that good stuff. And I thought it’d be a great time to bring back one of the biggest historians of the game. A guy who has been covering the NBA and the Bulls for over four decades now. Author of the bestseller, The Jordan Rules, longtime writer for the Chicago Tribune, and you know him for all of his great work covering the team over at Bulls.com. It’s my pleasure to welcome back to the show Sam Smith of Bulls.com. Sam, it’s great to see you again and I appreciate you making the time. Sure. Good to talk to you. And now I’m sure most of you are already. Uh, but be sure to check out all of Sam’s work at bulls.com. Also, Sam’s got a new book coming out that is available by pre-order. I’ve already ordered a copy myself. It’s co-authored by him and Phil Jackson titled Master of the Game. I got some I can show you. What’s that? They sent me Okay. Okay. publisher sent me a proof. There we go. What it looks like. I was going to ask what’s the when’s the release date again? Yeah, it’s not till publishing takes a while. Um I think it’s November. Beginning of November. Okay. Um but we’re you know we’re done. I mean that’s that’s actually an uncorrected proof. So I’m still finishing up the editing, but that’s about done. But uh yeah, I think it’ll be like a really fun book. um you know not just because of Phil but more it’s a conversation. I think it’s unique kind of it’s it’s uh it’s it’s not a his it is a history kind of thing but it’s more like you know the class it it’s sort of the concept I had with the Jordan rules which right became a lot bigger than it was. It was the old cliche fly on the wall, you know, with the Jordan rules was supposed to be just a diary of a team going through a season and right what happened to be Jordan, the Bulls won, all this other stuff happened that was unexpected. Uh, and this is the same thing, you know, come and sit and listen to Phil Jackson and I talk about uh, you know, the history of the game. So anyway, it’s it’s kind of a, you know, fun little kind of nuggets, two or three pages on each guy. Well, and that’s why I’m intrigued by it because we don’t get to hear from Phil Jackson all that often, you know. So, I’m definitely looking forward to reading it. I’ll I’ll leave a link to the of the book in the description for anybody who’s interested. And Sam, I hope maybe I can get a signed copy whenever I see you next. Uh, since I got you signed copy rules. It’s easy to get me, not Phil. I was hoping you’d be able to get me Phil, too, but I know that’s that’s hard for me to get Phil. Um, now Sam, let’s talk about the Bulls. uh a team that you’ve been talking about for years. Uh I feel a little a lot of people uh don’t view it this way. Uh I’m probably in the minority in this opinion, but this is kind of a critical offseason for the Bulls and how it shapes their future. Uh in my view, they really need to get this off season right to get them on the right path. Otherwise, we’re going to be staring at more of the same thing that we’ve seen the past few seasons. They didn’t get the number one pick, so they’ll be drafting 12th. Um, they’ve got guys up for extensions that they’re going to need to figure out, which we’ll talk about. Uh, but I’m curious in your view, just based on what you know of this front office based on what our tourist said at his end of season press conference, what are your expectations for how things will transpire this off season? Uh, and then we can get into some of the specifics as it relates to the draft, potential trades, free agency, and stuff like that. Uh, overall, I’m probably a little discouraged. Um probably like most fans you were hoping for at least you know sneak into the top four. Yeah. And they really you know Dallas gets 1.8% and basically it came down to the it wasn’t technically a coin flip but the tiebreaker you know that they lose the tiebreaker. The irony was a couple years ago they had the same situation with Sacramento. They they won that tiebreaker and Sacramento behind them end up jumping up to two. So, you know, like I mentioned the other day, it’s sort of a bad bad luck bulls. So, uh it it on one level it limits them and it basically puts them in a similar situation as they’ve been sort of, you know, stuck in the middle. Um but I think, you know, there are way two two things I think. One is I think they’re going to handle the draft the way they did last year. uh not not not take the best player available, but take the best player that falls to them. Uh they haven’t been very good when they’ve decided, you know, who who you know, when they target a player like Patrick Williams, Dalen Terry, but they have good when guys have slipped through Dumo. Um then last year Modis Bazllis, you know, they had targeted or at that time they, you know, the way these mock drafts and these lists come, everybody kind of has the same list. And so I think I think Ron Holland was their pick and then Modis who everybody thoughts going five, six, seven most is there at 11. And I think I see this kind of this draft like that draft in a sense that there’s three maybe four players sort of off the top and then the next six, seven, eight are eye of the beholder. I think you know one team will see a guy at five that another team will see at 15. Uh I don’t think it’s that strong you know was sold at this great draft. Uh I think they’ll be good. You know it’ll be same as usual some good players somewhere. you know, maybe eight will be good and 12 will be good and 18 will be good. So, you won’t know. Uh, so I think they’re going to sit there and, you know, be in the spot and say, you know, whoever falls to us that we had ranked higher than others, we’ll take and so as a result, it’s hard to judge. Uh, the needs obviously are size, toughness, uh, front court. Uh but if you know if a top guard who can shoot uh falls to I think they would take him you know and that uh would give him potential flexibility you say well not another guard you know we don’t need another guard well you know you can trade guards you can do you know the things you can do the other thing is what our tourist said in that you know end season u conference uh you know you can kind of dig out you know some nuggets from But one was the point he made about Giddy. You know, they’re obviously high on Giddy. It’s pretty obvious that they’ll give him an extension and, you know, he’ll be a a primary piece for them going forward. But what he said is what I what I took from it was players like Giddy in the sense of draft picks, guys who are highly sought of uh who teams have given up on kind of thing and who we still like. And so a guy who fits that kind of profile is uh Kaminga with Golden State, right? Uh I’m pretty sure I mean every indication based on you know Steve Curry’s usage of him and everything is they’re going to do a sign and trade. Yeah. And so you know could could you get involved in that? Do you want to I’m assuming I’m assuming they do. uh you know cuz he he would be the athletic wing that Patrick Williams was supposed to be and is obviously not and they’ve kind of obviously you know lost faith in Patrick but you know moved him to the bench and probably try to move him. I don’t know I doubt they’ll be able to. I don’t expect they’ll be able to with a four years left on his contract but you know he still be a solid you know reserve guy coming in. He averages 10 points. You know he he can play a guy comparable defense. I mean his part of his problem was auto similar to problem that Zack Lavine had with the Bulls. They paid him $45 million. So then they expected him to be a LeBron, right? He’s not. And the same thing with Patrick. They say, “Well, we drafted him four, so he has to be a star.” Well, he’s not. He’s a star, but he could, you know, he’d be a good serviceable backup. It that’s okay. You need that. you know, you see teams in the playoffs now at the bench players, straw that, you know, come in guys, you know, have one game a series that helps them. So, you know, I I don’t think it’s a a negative, but uh one thing and Kuming is a restricted free agent. Again, I don’t know if that’s a guy they like, but I’m assuming that fits I’m just saying that fits a profile of what he’s personified. And it and it also would fit a need, you know, of a athletic wing, 67 to go with 610. And from what I had heard at the deadline, Golden State was interested in uh uh Buchvich and Lavine. a pack a deal that included both. The Bulls didn’t want to do it because they wanted to get that pick back into the deal. Uh but if the Warriors are still interested in Buchich, then I think there’s a deal to be made. He only has one year left. Makes 20, you know, so could fit in a sign and trade, throw in one player. They probably want Kobe White, you know, maybe her you could do Herder uh something, you know. So there seems like a possibility there to do something that would, you know, seemingly upgrade their talent. Do you do you foresee a scenario where the Bulls, just going back to the draft real quick, where they would potentially trade up? Uh there’s been reports that the Sixers are maybe looking to trade their pick at number three. Um potentially other teams like the Rockets. Any any uh thing that you’re hearing on your end as far as the Bulls potentially looking to trade up in the draft? you you always look at everything you the question is well what would you want you know so would potentially would fit the bulls would be that uh the big guy from Ruters you know I would think uh the assumption is uh Harper would you know Harper seems to be a number uh favored number two guy but he wouldn’t necessarily fit the Bulls in the sense that if you’re investing in Giddy Harper is a you know on ball ball control kind of player. So, I don’t think they’d be interested in him. So, presumably they’d be interested in the big guy from uh Ruters who, you know, be nice, but then you teams want a lot when you trade up and so for a Sixers, they say, “Well, they want a they want a readymade player now that’s going to help him.” So, that would be like Kobe White. Yeah. I don’t see anybody else on the roster who would make sense. So, that wouldn’t be that wouldn’t be worth it to trade up. I wouldn’t want to trade up five spots and give up Kobe White. So, yeah, I think they would look into stuff like that. And when they made that Lavine trade, they they tried to move both Herder and Zack Collins, right? You know, that day and they couldn’t ended up both of them ended up, you know, playing pretty well or helping and and that each have one year left. But, but I still think, you know, both are would be available. And so I I even though it doesn’t seem like they’ll do a lot, I think there’s the possibility because I think they’re going to put up a lot of players in auction. I mean, you look, they missed the playoffs again. It’s not like that they got a roster full of untouchables, right? Zealous and Giddy probably the only ones. Yeah. Uh so I I I think they’ll explore a lot of things. Right now it would be just guessing anything. I it moving up doesn’t mean make s much sense to me if you got to give up a lot like I might move up if I really wanted a player and Portland wanted his pick back and you know something like that and you know maybe some sort of exchange of players there Portland’s got extra you know wing players maybe they don’t need I don’t but they haven’t done that kind of stuff I don’t expect they’ll do that stuff but but I could see involved in like I said signing trade trades It’s I think they’ll be, you know, they’ll look to be involved in in uh uh in trade just because like I said, they have maybe two untouchables on the roster. Yeah. If uh assuming the Bulls stay at number 12, are there any players I know you we talked offline right before we started, you didn’t attend the combine, but I’m sure you’ve been looking at some of the players. Are there any any guys that intrigue you uh at number 12 that you’ve seen thus far? Yeah, I’d have to look at the listing. I’m not a college I don’t watch I don’t watch these guys. Although I’ve already done a mock trap and so you know through through the Bulls pick um and I forget which guy if you showed me if you showed showed me there’s and I for I I forget who these guys are. Yeah. Uh there’s there’s there’s a couple of athletic wings. Yeah. So for you for you it’s more you mentioned them. These guys don’t play at the combine. We were telling you I I was at the I went to the lottery. I don’t go to the combine. It’s almost a uh personal issue I have with what the league does. They don’t uh uh Cooper Flag Cooper Flag should be playing. I want to see him play against other top players. Yeah. I don’t understand why the NBA doesn’t force these players to play. These are job interviews for these players. Yeah. And I think that’s why the draft is is so bad. I and I think that’s why teams make so many mistakes in the draft because they never can see these guys play after their college and then you know some of them play in the in the G-League or Ignite or whatever those things are and that’s like schoolyard ball is barely organized you know and the combine has legitimate coaches legitimate coaches ask them to do things to me to me that’s a terrible mistake the NBA make they just completely given up and it makes the combine kind of joke to me. I think it’s a laughable exercise and I personally boycott it because I think the NBA has sold out. Who what other business in the world lets the employee the the potential employees decide what they’re going to do in job interviews? And I’m not gonna I’m not going to talk to anybody because I’m just good. I’m just so good that you your company needs me. You know what? The NBA will be great without Cooper Flag for the next 50 years. If Cooper Flag doesn’t play one minute in the NBA, the NBA ratings will go up. They’ll make a ton ton of money. Every franchise will be worth double in 10 years what it is now. And nobody will remember Cooper flag. So this is SL this is a joke. So that’s why I don’t go to this thing. It’s a joke. And make the guys play who are like, you know, going to Europe. Who who cares? Who cares those guys are playing in games? You know, it it’s kind of interesting you’re talking about, you know, the draft and why sometimes because players don’t play in the combine and the combine is, you know, somewhat limited in terms of what you can learn from a given prospect, it makes the draft a bit of a crapshoot. I’ve always said the draft is a crapshoot in terms of, you know, what you’re going to get because you never know what you’re going to get until they actually come onto the NBA floor. One of the biggest debates, a divisive debate among Bulls fans this year, even going into this upcoming season, is whether the Bulls should be taking a step back, tanking, if you will, uh, for a better shot at landing a star level talent or focusing on development and still trying to win. I’m curious from your perspective where you sort of fall on the spectrum and do you think the Bulls did the right thing this year to try and make the playoffs despite coming up short? Yeah, I’m always for competing. I I understand what it is, but you know, we saw from 2017 when they traded Jimmy You know, they threw games for four years. And I know they can’t say it. Not supposed to. You go to jail, whatever, but they weren’t trying to win. They were trying to lose. And it didn’t work any year. Could have worked. It didn’t. They got seven pick every year. I get it. You got to get lucky. And it could work. Now, we don’t you don’t expect to get so lucky where, you know, picking like Dallas did this year or where they were, you know, but if you, you know, if you look at it, the teams that were trying to I mean, really th this lottery maybe sent the best message to not do this because Washington again like the last two years, Detroit, what did they go for? One to five. Yep. Two or three. That was that was and that was the second year in a row that that happened. They went from one to five. So, so the teams that were the most embarrassing this year that were uncompetitive that spent six months that you didn’t even want to look at them were Utah, Washington, Charlotte, and all of them dropped. Yeah. You know, I know it’s mathematics and Yeah. And so anyway, I I I value the regular season. So, even though I know uh statistically or analytically it’s the right thing to get better odds, I I don’t like giving up the regular season. I And yeah, I I prefer to hope that management is smarter because I think a a smart management uh you know, look, if you get lucky, you get LeBron, you get WMAN flag, that sets up your franchise for the next 10 years. I get it. But only one team gets that, you know, everybody else doesn’t. So, I’d rather rely on on going through the season playing seriously. You know, you’re not in Chicago. I am. The fans were excited about in the home games. The arena was, you know, the arena was kind of electric most of the time. Yeah. I think, you know, even though I think I think a lot of the fan base says, “Yeah, well, you know what? They don’t they’re not going to the games. They’re doing other stuff. They’re going to movies and stuff.” you know, all the others of us, including the Bull, you know, especially the Bulls management and players. It has to be at all the games, you know, they they don’t want to be involved with a losing situation like that. So, anyway, that’s a long answer, but say I’m anti-tanking. So, I I am too. I mean, I mean, I think, you know, there also, you know, levels to this, right? And given the, you know, circumstances, I think had had I said this a couple years ago where the Bulls were kind of in no man’s land. Not that they’re still not no man’s land, but it was different when they had a much older roster. Now you have some of these younger guys that are showing some promise. I think that there’s value in developing those players and putting them in winning situations rather than hoping for a 14% chance. That’s the best chance you’re going to get at getting a number one pick even if you have the worst record. That’s sort of my perspective. Um, I actually the Miami Philly models, you know, trying to win all the time right away because sometimes you can, sometimes it works out. There’s always players that come available. I don’t think the Bulls are going to get Giannis, you know, but players come available. Teams it, you know, there’s all the trades in the NBA are basically the same. It’s the guy I hate to the guy you hate. But I don’t know how bad he is yet. you know, you hate him. We don’t hate him yet. All we know is we hate our guy. So, you know, a lot of times you can take advantage if you’re a good management, if you’re, you know, if you’re smart, if you have a if you have a theory about how you play. I always go back Phoenix model. I love the Phoenix model under Danton. Uh because I knew those scouts then and I used to look at the draft and they would say, “This guy, he’s way better than the guy we’re going to pick.” Uh, but the guy we’re going to pick is the guy who fits the way Mike wants to play. He’s not gonna, you know, he’s going to average 11 points. This other guy might average 22, right? But, you know, because he’s more talented, but this guy’s going to fit Mike. And so, that’s what I’d rather see a coach and a GM is on the same page, you know, building in the same way toward the style of and the Bulls haven’t had that a lot. And this season sort of it it wasn’t that way a couple years ago. So, I think maybe they’re getting on on that same page now. So, you mentioned Giannis. We got to we got to talk about that really quick. Biggest fantasy that exists right now for Bulls fans, that small glimmer of hope that maybe him in the offseason. Do you think there’s 28 teams he could be traded to? The one team he could not be traded to, will not be traded to is the Bulls. I guarantee you that. But, but why why why the Bulls and any of the 28 other teams? It’s because of Chicago and Milwaukee. If you don’t live in this area, you know, on the west coast of Lake Michigan, you don’t get it. You just got to look at the Cubs that the they recruited this manager who is like this most popular guy in in Milwaukee. He’s a Wisconsin native council, I think his name is. I don’t pay much attention to that stuff. Uh, and he was beloved. Now the when when the when the Cubs go back and play games in Milwaukee, he’s booed mercilessly. They hate him. I got a lot of friends up there. Even some friends I, you know, who were partners with the ball club in in ownership, they hate him now. They don’t want us they don’t want to mention his name. There’s no way. and and Milwaukee hates the fact that Chicago, you know, people are wealthier, have a lot more uh expendable income, come up to those games all the time and buy those tickets. And right in in the arena in in the in the Bucks arena during Bulls games, it’s as loud for the Bulls as it is for the Bucks. Yeah. So it now even if the Bulls had stuff to trade, they don’t. But but even if they did, like they say they had LeBron and Durant, Milwaukee still wouldn’t do it because they’re not they’re not dealing with Giannis coming back in their building in a Bulls uniform. Never happened. So you you would say that like the Hornets, for example, would have a better chance at trading for Giannis than than the Bulls? Absolutely 100%. Okay. Because I mean I don’t think I don’t think remember this. Giannis has no say in it. He’s under contract. Of course. Yeah. Damen Lillard, there’s like, you know, there’s maybe 25 teams he’d rather be in in Milwaukee. I guarantee you that. That’s the one place he didn’t want to be. Yeah. You know, he was in he was beloved in Portland. He thought he was going to Miami. He wakes up every day in the winter. It’s cold. It’s dark. It’s miserable. You can’t go anywhere. It’s It’s an awful place in the winter. and and he’s stuck there by himself. You know, he hates it. But Portland is like, “Hey, you want to be traded? You’re under contract. We’re going to make the best deal for us.” So, Milwaukee has a history with Kareem in that trade. One is I don’t think Giannis is going to be traded because I think Milwaukee is still hurt from that trade of Kareem. But two, uh, they’re going to trade him where they want to trade him. They’re not going to they’re not going to trade him where he wants to go. So, Oh, yeah. We And then one the other thing they got going for them is Giannis is not James Harden. Yeah. He’s not gonna make Ben Simmons or anything like that, right? He’s not gonna make a mockery of the franchise. He’s a classy professional person, good citizen. He’s not going to make, you know, quit playing like Harden did, you know, try to embarrass the organization with trade demands. And so I don’t think they’ll feel pressure. Now, if they get a great offer, there’s a couple of teams that can give them great offers with a lot of picks. Houston, maybe San Antonio, a lot of Thunder even. Yeah. Some of these teams that accumulated a lot of draft picks and have young players. The Bulls don’t have either of that, you know. Well, they have I mean, they have all their picks at their disposal. I agree. It’s not to the level of what No, no, no, they don’t. They got their picks. These other teams got really good picks. They got everybody’s pick. Why do Why do I want Bill the Bulls picks if they got Giannis? They’re going to make the playoffs. Yeah, those are crap picks. I don’t want because I I I agree. I don’t think the Bulls are going to get Giannis. I think that’s that’s a fancy. No, they’re not going to. It’s not I don’t think they’re going to get him. They’re not. He’s not coming to my never be in Chicago other than shopping on Michigan Avenue. And just in my view, I I would think that the Bulls would have slightly better odds at landing Giannis than say teams like, you know, the Hornets or, you know, the Jazz. So look, all right, so let’s I’ll play your game. You’re gonna make it. So Milwaukee said, “Well, we got to recoup.” All right, so we’ll take, you know, you give you got to give us Bazel, Giddy, and Kobe White and two first. Muel Bridges got five first. Yeah. You know, which is insane. Yeah. And so Giannis, he’s thinking, “All right, so I go down to Chicago. I got a better chance of winning in Chicago with Kevin Herder and Zack Collins. No and Jaylen Terry compared to staying in Milwaukee. Yeah. And and that’s what I’m saying. I think the biggest deal Yeah. The biggest reason Giannis won’t go to Chicago is because he needs to go to a winning situation. I mean, at this point in his career, he wants to win now. And the Bulls just aren’t aren’t that. Yeah. Also, Milwaukee is not a farm team of the Bulls or anybody else. you know, it’s not, you know, they’re not there to supply Giannis to somebody so they can, you know, they can have succeed. I know fans look at it that way. Yeah, let’s get Giannis. Yeah. So, so well, so I’m I’m a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks, say, and they say, “All right, we make a trade with Chicago. Let’s go. Let’s see if we can get the best players on a team that uh lost in the playing.” Yeah, I’m really excited about that. So what what you know what are you telling me? So okay so forget forget Giannis for a second. What about other big names that could be available on the market this summer? Guys like Zion, maybe John Morant, Deontto Sabonis, maybe even Trey Young. I’m actually not a fan of the Bulls acquiring any of these guys, by the way, just for the record, just because I think their contracts are going to be too restrictive in in today’s CBA environment. But have you heard anything about any of those guys being on the move in the Bulls front office exploring options there? Yeah, you know, front office explore everything and rumors come up somebody. They’re not going to do anything like that. They what what Arcturus said was pretty clear that postseason thing. Yeah, they’re not going to take on big contracts. They’re going to look to and and I agree with that. I would do that, too. Uh you know, there’s not an urgency right now. You The other thing is East is going to be, you know, Boston could take a big you know, with Tatum Hurt, you know, with their payroll, they could fall back. Okay, Philly moves out. Yeah, you know, Cleveland’s still going to be good. New York still going to be good. So, you know, you’re not going to be top four, but you’ll have a shot maybe to get to six. You know, maybe, you know, and I think that’s where the Bulls are looking now. I I I think if they were honest with you, they would say coming into next season, if we have a chance to play for six, uh, we’d be thrilled because the summer of 2026, we’ll have a lot of cap room. if we don’t do anything stupid, right? And stupid would be trading for Zion Williamson who doesn’t play. I would never trade for him. I wouldn’t trade Dalon Terry for him. I think he’s an anchor on your franchise. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you know players like that well not only cost you jobs, which they did, but players like that weigh down your franchise for years because you’re expecting them to be a star. And while there’d be a star in the 22 games they play, most of the time they don’t play. And we knew from day one, uh, with Zion, that was one of the years the Bulls were tanking, you know, that Zion was one and Jaw was two. And I remember the Bulls saying, the Bulls management then saying, “We hope we get, you know, if we get one, we’re going to have to take Zion.” Everybody has knows they have to take Zion one because you can’t pass the big name, but we don’t think his body is going to be a hold up in the NBA with the torque that he puts on, right? Right. You know, and and that’s proven out. They were right about that, but so was a lot of other teams. Now, it turned out, you know, Morance’s, you know, and so he’s a problem, too. And his body’s not going to hold out either. So, you can’t take a risk on him because he doesn’t play. And that’s the big thing, too, with these money guys. And that’s why I thought Zach was uh treated badly because Zach did play. Yeah. Maybe he didn’t he didn’t measure up in talent. He was d he’s darn good. And I tell you what, if he if he were with Houston or Detroit, they’d still be playing now because that’s all they’re missing. And that’s exactly where he needs to be to be the third player on a good team with defense. Like he’s in Golden. Actually, they would need, you know, they’re better off with Jimmy, but, you know, because of the defense. But, you know, a team like Houston that’s got all these defenders. Uh, Oklahoma City is a great example. That’s the one thing Pressie Pressie screwed up. He didn’t go get a second player who can create his own shot. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And and if they lose, that’s why they’re going to lose, you know, because they don’t have a second player create his own shot as as good as that defense is. But Zack can do Zack said so he put Zack in the right spot. The Bulls didn’t. that, you know, they said, “Oh, you got to be the number one guy.” And he he wasn’t that, right? Um, so I don’t know where I was going on that. No, no, it’s good. Um, it’s Oh, yeah. I was saying, you know, Zion, uh, J, you can’t you can’t take those players. You you you can’t spend that kind of money on guys who don’t play and that destroys your franchise. So, I think the Bulls are, you know, going in the right direction now. you know, they’re they’re building incrementally with young players who seem to, you know, have an ability to stay on the court, play, uh, have a style of play, and it’s just going to be slower. You I don’t look I don’t see, unlike what you said, I don’t see this summer as that crucial. I think I think this is an incremental summer. So, let let’s because one of the biggest things from this summer is Josh Giddy. Let’s talk about him for a second. had had a slow start to the year, but obviously ended uh really nicely uh and did impact winning. Um now, some might say that’s because they faced off against weaker teams. You know, teams were resting players, but he had a good year and he’s only 22. Bulls obviously pursued him heavily like we talked about in that trade for Alex Caruso. Going to be a restricted free agent. While I think the Bulls will absolutely be bringing him back on a deal, the question is how much? And is there a scenario where a team offers Giddy maybe more than the Bulls are willing to match? I think the figure I heard that Giddy was looking for was 5 years 150 million. Uh what are your thoughts as far as like how much they should be focusing on Giddy in terms of a contract? Well, let me first say his stat I believe his stats are way inflated. Uh okay. Not he was not that kind of player for what exactly you said. The last 20 games of the season they they played team a lot of teams with losing records. a lot of teams that were trying to lose sadly, you know, but it was close to the end of the season in the lottery. Uh and got and got caught up in a lot of high-scoring games as a result. Yeah. And also, yeah, I’m not saying he he behaved illegally, but I thought I thought he chased a lot of rebounds that were, you know, missed free throws kind of things. I thought he held the ball a lot of times that so when he gave it up, the guy had to shoot. He didn’t have a chance to pass it. So if he made the shot, he got an assist. If he didn’t, you know, so what? So, you know, you you can you can artificially inflate some stats. That said, you know, he still had good stats to me. I’m just saying this. He’s not a triple. Don’t pay him as a triple double player. That’s not what he is. But, you know, he can get 17, eight, and six, something like that. That’s pretty darn good. Now, that said, nobody can pay him. Uh then the only team with money I think is the Nets. Yeah. You know they they’re in the market for big game and spending all their free agent money on Josh Kitty. So I wouldn’t worry if I’m the Bulls. The mistake the Bulls have made previously is paying some of these restricted free agents when you that’s you got leverage. You the NBA has provided you leverage. They worked the you know they gave the ownership this deal. You know, it’s not great for the players, but it’s great for the ownership. So, if they give you leverage, take it. Yeah. I I never understood why they don’t, you know, why why so many of those these players, they didn’t let go in the market. Let them let the market set their value and then match it. I’m fine with that. Well, that so that’s what I was going to ask. I mean, do you think the Bulls maybe learned their lesson from what happened with Patrick Williams, right? They obviously paid him before he hit restrictive free agency. They didn’t let the market dictate his worth. Do you think that they’ll approach it this way now with Josh Giddy and letting the market potatoes value? I think they should, but you know, they have a perfect record of never listening to my advice. So, I don’t know what they’ll do, but they should. You know, that’s that’s the smart thing. Also, because I don’t think anybody has money to make a big offer. Yeah. And so, I I think I I think he won’t get any offer. Actually, he won’t get a substantial offer. Me, you know, I don’t know. Utah’s got Utah’s got money. Maybe I don’t know. Maybe he gets an offer and the Bulls work out something. I think they’ll give him a substantial offer. I don’t know. I been labor my entire life. I’m for the players. I hope they get as much as they can. I’m never one to say, oh, you know, like Zach, you got 45 million, but for him, you know, that that’s on management to figure out how to balance your budget. Players should players should try to get as much as he can. Just Yeah. says you or I, you know, any job we didn’t, you know, I I’m not I never went into a job and say, well, to the betterment of the organization, why don’t you pay me half of what I think I’m I deserve. You know, you take what you can get. And so, it’s up to, you know, it’s up to Bulls to make, you know, a fair offer that balances what they want to go in the future. I don’t think I don’t see any scenario where they won’t make a deal with him. Yeah, I was just going to ask that. Do you think that there’s any sort of scenario where Josh Giddy does not come back? No, I really don’t. You know, because, you know, they’ve been big on when they make a trade or would, you know, when they take uh, you know, do something like they made the Caruso trade. So, I I think they, you know, they would, you know, like to feel like and and I think the community felt even though Caruso has a chance to win a title, I think the community felt that, you know, the Bulls won that deal because of Giddy’s production at the end of the season. So, I think I think they want to ride that and also they need a point guard. I don’t think Alonzo is a long-term answer, right? IO is you’re not sure is he going to be able to start the season, have the shoulder surgery or how effective he’ll be in the early part. So, he’s really your only you you know I think they like Trey Jones uh but he’s unrestricted free agent. he could get it. Now, you know, a guy like that can get an offer, you know, that you might not want to match because it’s, you know, build up and because I think you know, like I said, I think the whole uh you know uh plan is to work toward 2026 summer where you will, you know, you’re really in position if Mr. If you can’t trade him, which I think they actually will trade him, but if you can’t, he comes off the books. Collins comes off comes off the books, you know, Kobe White now, you know, that’s a big issue. You know, you want to play pay him then, you going to trade him, you know, but there’s a they’ll be one of they’ll be one of the teams with the most potentially the most cap room. That also depends on they, you know, if they do this, you know, something with Kaminga sign and trade. That’s what I’m saying. So, I think there’s a lot of balls in the air now. So, I think it’s hard to read uh what they’ll do. Now, I’ll get you out of here on this because you mentioned Kobe. I did want to bring that up real quick. Yeah. I think the other big question going into this offseason is what are they going to do with Kobe White? You know, it’s he’s going to be going into the final year of his deal, uh, extension eligible, otherwise he becomes a free agent in 2026. What are you hearing internally about how the Bulls are sort of approaching Kobe’s contract, whether or not there’s a possibility they may even trade him before the start of the season? Yeah, you know, I I think there’s some sentiment, you know, more in the community about, you know, we got we got enough guards. Let’s I I I would want to keep Kobe White. Yeah. To be, you know, you traded all your scoring, you know, you got rid of Zack, you got rid of Demar, right? Uh I think I think you know that they really that they want to move on from Buch for defensive purposes and whatever. So if you do that, you know, and while like I said, I like Giddy’s production, I don’t see him as a scorer, you know. I think if you defend him, if you play him physically, if he doesn’t have Kobe White on out on the wing with him, Yeah. people say, well, you know, they’ve been had a great match as, you know, defensively as a tandem as a guard, but if he doesn’t have the defense, looking at Kobe White, I think it becomes really hard for Giddy, uh, because he’s, you know, he’s not a very physical player, and I think if you pick him up high, you’re going to give him trouble. He’s not a great shooter, uh, if he’s guarded. So, I really think he needs White and I I think the Bulls need White. And here’s here’s a guy who they really developed, who’s gotten better under them, has gotten a lot better, who’s really on the verge of being an all-star. I I hear a lot of this about, yeah, we need to move on from White and, you know, get a size. I understand that, you know, get a big guy, but I would I would want to keep him and then, you know, see what happens see what happens in free agency after next season. Um, but he he would be a guy I would I would want to keep on my team. I know I said I would get you out of here on that last question, but Sam, do you think in your lifetime you’ll see a Bulls championship again? Well, you should answer that question on your lifetime. Mine doesn’t have that much to go. So, but that’s what I mean. Like, could they maybe win in the next, you know, decade or so? My lifetime, no. But yours yours possibly. I would say mine mine would be no because you know I would like not to be close that close to the end but that’s ah you got you got plenty years left the Bulls will win the Bulls will win a title in New that’s that’s not the point if you look at the playoffs now you say you know who could could Minnesota win a title or Oklahoma City and you know I think it’s going to be wide open for a while and so I think I think teams are going to pass around but it’s going to you know titles come down when it’s like this, you know, there’s a lot of parody in the NBA now. Right. Right. And I think there’s going to be for several years to come, you know, in part because teams have kind of abandoned this superstar combination with the, you know, the big three model not working and and you know, the new salary cap rules with the second apron and you see Boston even if uh Tatum hadn’t gotten hurt, you know, every the belief was with new ownership, the whole part with new ownership is where they gone to they were going to try to break up the team anyway, right? and maybe Golden State, you know, similarly because they’ve been paying all this luxury tax. So, I think we’re entering a good era in a sense for teams like the Bulls that I think it’s kind of wide open. And I think one of the Bulls models in a sense is a team that could win the title, Indiana Pacers. And if you look at the way the Pacers have played the last several years, yeah, that’s kind of the way the Bulls have been trying to play. Now, they they don’t have the physical players Indiana has yet, right? But they, you know, you could get a couple of those players. So maybe, you know, two and three, four years, yeah, they could be in that position and have a chance. And I think that’s really what they’re looking for. I think that, you know, teams say, “Oh, we’re here to win.” You shouldn’t say that. Don’t say we’re here to win a title. What you should say is we want to get in position to be in the final four. And if we can do that, then we’re good enough to win a title. It doesn’t mean we’re going to win a title. Usually you win a title because you you have a transcendent, you know, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant. That’s how you win titles. But sometimes you sneak through, you know, the you get Dirk and a bunch of guys, you know, and you can win a title. You get Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace and a bunch of guys and you can win a title. And so, you know, yeah, you can and I think that is, you know, the Bulls won’t say it, I gather, but I think that’s their goal. Let’s put let’s put as you know let’s put several good players together you know develop a style of play you know sort of like Indiana did you know transition fast pace you know all the things you hear opponents now talking about like Cleveland was talking about Indiana and losing that last game and it sounded like they were talking about the Bulls you know yeah we tired them out in the fourth quarter you know we ran we pushed you know the pace was high so I think you you know you can They finally got a roster close to the way the coach wants to play. They didn’t have it the last couple of years with the with D Rozan and Lavine and Buchvich. It was half court. It was slower. It was slow. So moving on from D Rozan and moving on, you know, from Lavine, you know, you sort of cleared out that where you can, you know, play the way Billy wants to play, push the ball, speed, keep running, and now you’ve got to, you know, if you can add to that with some what they’re missing and and and you see it mostly in these playoff games, they’re missing physicality and toughness. They’re not a tough team at all. they get pushed around and you see that’s what Miami did to him and winning all these, you know, uh, uh, playin games. So, if they can add a couple of players like that, you know, to compliment the couple of players that they have, Giddy, Baze, and, you know, play a style and stick to it. Yeah. You know, then they could start to get in, uh, you know, in the conversation. And I think that’s what they’re trying to do. So, um, without talking about my lifespan, I think they have a chance in the next couple of years to get in the conversation. And so, that would be something. I think the Bulls need another Joe Noah. That’s that’s the type of player they should be looking at right now, you know. Yeah. You know, you unfortunately or fortunately, a lot of it comes down to luck. Yep. It does. So, Dallas got Dallas got lucky when the Bulls win. If they’d have gotten, you know, you can’t say if only, but if they’d have gotten flag, it would have set them up for the next decade. Of course. And they and they didn’t get it by one ping pong ball. I mean, so you know, what does good or bad management have to do with that? Yeah. So anyway, so un for the problem the problem but there’s probably you know those drafts come along once every 10 years though you know where you know you get a player like that and maybe you didn’t not be one for the next four or five years but I think you know they’re going to try to make the playoffs try to get to six uh get their way out of the play in and you know I think they’re building toward that but to me the big summer is 26 not this summer. Okay. Well, as Sam, as always, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to talk with me about this team. Means a great deal to me and to my viewers. Keep up the great work and best of luck to everything uh this upcoming offseason and going into this upcoming season. All right, no more. Don’t you bring up Giannis again. I will not bring up Giannis again. I promise. Take

One on one interview with the legendary Sam Smith of Bulls.com

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