Washington Wizards: Moving up in the draft, trading vets, & more | 2025 Offseason Preview | Podcast

Washington Wizards: Moving up in the draft, trading vets, & more | 2025 Offseason Preview | Podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Yosi Goslin, NBA Sourc analyst. This is my 20th uh team off season discussion where I bring in a guest that covers a team. So about 10 more of these left to go. I’ve been having a really good time doing these. Uh make sure you check out all the previous ones on YouTube under my name, Yos Goslin. You can listen to the audio on Spotify, Apple Podcast as well. Uh you can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky also at my name. you get a lot of good salary cap analysis as transactions happen. Now we’re getting to that time of year where I definitely recommend you follow me and even turn on notifications. So, uh, you know, it’ll be a lot of good stuff over the next few months. And make sure you’re subscribed to Third Apron. I’ve got a couple things going on with the newsletter. I started a little flash sale. We just got to 500 subs. It’s a celebrate. I’m doing 20% off. Uh, and also as if you’ve been listening to the previous episodes, you know that I’m going to be instructing a sports business classroom in Vegas this summer. And I am going to be uh and I have a promo going on for those who wants to sign up. Whoever does with the code gets a free uh lifetime subscription. So, check out the the uh description. The link, all the details is in there. And today we are going to talk about the Washington Wizards. uh one of the few teams that aggressively tried to tank uh I mean bottom out, however you want to call it and got burned by it. And joining me to discuss uh I got Greg Finnberg on. He is a writer for Bel Bullets Forever and he has his own podcast of Wizards Podcast. Greg, how are you doing and how you feeling about the Wizards heading into year three of the rebuild? Well, well, first Yosi, thank you so much for having me on. Uh, I’m a big fan of of all you do with the the front office stuff. As someone that understands the aprons and stuff, um, but not to the fullest extent. Your all your stuff has been really helpful. So, I appreciate you. Appreciate you having me on. Um, I mean, as it goes for the Wizards, you kind of explained it very well in your introduction. Like a team that went headon and we’re going to tank and hopefully we get lucky. Uh, update they did not get lucky. The lottery did not go well for them, but there’s definitely ways to move forward. They’re a young team. They have a lot of really good young pieces. Uh, you know, they have three first round picks from last year’s draft. Alex Sar just made our rookie first team. Club Carrington just made our rookie second team. And you could have made a case for Keshan George if he didn’t get hurt at the end of the season to be on our rookie second team as well. Um, they also have Lulu Labali and Tristan Vukovich who they drafted the year before. Uh, in addition to guys like Kobby Jones and AJ Johnson that they acquired via trade. Um, they have a bunch of young pieces. They also have veterans that they can maybe uh do some things with at the deadline. They have a stockpile of second round picks from the Bradley Beal trade. They have future first round picks from the different trades they made with Jared Butler to the Sixers. Like there’s a there’s a lot there to work with, but they don’t have a star and and they were hoping that this draft they could find one in Harper or Flag. It’s not going to work like that unless they trade up, and we’ll talk about that later in the show. But they are star away. They’re in a good spot right now, but but they definitely need that that guy to lead the way. and and and I’m not sure how they’re going to get there, but but they have to at some point if they want to contend. So, it’s easy to forget where the Wizards were a couple years ago between that like 2019 2018 2019 time until a couple years ago where, you know, they never really try to bottom out. They never try to get Yeah, they were getting draft picks, like high ones, but it’s different when you’re like accidentally uh getting into those positions to grab a player versus, you know, focusing on trying to get high selections and and really uh lasering in on developing those guys because they were also trying to be good. And they’ve been one of the teams that really got burned by the middle build and this was just a long time coming. So whatever they’re doing right now, it’s as you mentioned, yeah, there is no star. It’s really hard to see where exactly things are going to turn without that cornerstone. But I think for the most part, this is exactly what they should have been doing and what they are supposed to be doing these past two years. And when you look at what how they came from, they had a pretty bad hand to start with, especially with that Bradley Beal contract. And at the time when the trade happened, didn’t seem like they got that much back. mostly just future savings. Uh but that deal is looking a whole lot better. Those swaps from the Suns look promising. They got like five extra seconds. So you talked about you just mentioned their whole their their draft asset pool. They’ve got I think they’ve got like 10 total first and 14 seconds. Is that accurate? Yeah. So that’s that’s my account. So they’ve got a lot to work with. You mentioned all their prospects. Uh you know, four that they drafted. They got another one uh in the Koozma trade in AJ Johnson. So yeah, there is no franchise player yet and to be decided to see what happens in this draft. But generally speaking, this is like I said, this is what they’ve been supposed to be doing. I think they they’ve been correct to be aggressive and trying to get more bites at the apple, trying to get more uh players to bring in and see what and just develop them. So I you know the main the one the thing I’m wondering is like it’s hard to tell like exactly when like when they might start to be ready to compete. I don’t think it’s at least for like the next two years and that’s probably just like and and it might be longer than that. So I mean I what like what do you envision as far as like when how much longer they might continue this? It’s a fair question you considering I would I would consider the first year of their rebuild as year zero because it was more of the deconstructing phase where they had Beiel and they had Porzingis and they knew they both didn’t want to be there. So you have Will Dawkins the new GM comes in and says I have to trade these guys and so the whole season was kind of like in the offseason they’re going to dump Brad, they dump KP. Um throughout the season they’re trading guys like Galinari and and Mike Muscala um in trade for Marvin Bagley um who eventually they dumped off in in the Marcus Smart trade to pick up pick 18 in this draft. So they’ve made some moves like that, but that was more the deconstructing year zero of the rebuild as I call it. Um then you get to this past year as year one of like, okay, this team’s going to be really bad. Um and they were bad the year before. They were actually better this year than they were last year, but this was more of a this is the youngest team or one of the youngest in the league. Um, their starting lineup some nights was around 20 20.2 years old, like the youngest ever in Wizards history. This is a true definition of like a Sixers process rebuild, only playing young guys, some vets, but really just focusing on that. Um, and then you get to th this year that we’re going to see in 2526. This is the last year I think that you’ll see a full tank. Um, the the Wizards have a top eight protected pick from that they would send to the New York Knicks should it not convey. It’s from the Russell Westbrook John Wall trade. Again, one of the most short-sighted trades you’ll see where the Wizards basically said, “Here’s my old washed up point guard. Give me your old washed up point guard. He’s a little bit better.” Um, and maybe he’ll lead us to the playoffs. They got the eight seed. They got knocked out in five games by Philly, but they ended up sending a protected first round pick to Houston. And there was so many layers to that pick and it still isn’t conveyed. Um, so in 2526, it’s top eight protected. Um, let’s say the Wizards are top eight. they keep their pick and they eventually send a 26 and 27 second if I believe to New York. So the that that pick would be done and the Wizards then control their destiny for their first round picks for the single future if they want to trade them. Um but they don’t have to actually tank. Next year is the only year that like tanking still matters in terms of getting that pick. It’s a good draft class. So I would consider um you know tanking to be probably the best case scenario especially because they’re not going to be good. they’re probably going to have the worst, if not the worst or one of the worst rosters in the league. So, again, I think it makes sense for them to tank again next year. Uh but but after that, you got to go. Um you don’t have to necessarily make the conference final, but you got to make the playoffs. You got to start taking steps because you can’t just continue to to hope you’ll get lucky in the lottery. You need to to continue to build. So, next year, I understand losing is better for the team. Uh but after that, they got to kind of pick it up and start to try to make the playoffs. I think you’re right in the sense that whatever they did this year, any steps they took to position themselves for a high selection, yeah, they probably do some of that this year and then after that it’s going to be tough because usually a lot of teams and especially like you know of lower to midmarket type teams whenever they enter a full scale rebuild, they typically don’t want to go like more than three years out of the lottery uh out of the playoffs. the Wizards have already been out of it for four years and then like if you want to include some of the years right before that uh that you know it’s a little it’s kind of like a bigger they’ve been out of the playoffs like quite a bit. So if you’re talking about one more year then yeah at some point the you know ownership front office what have you might decide listen we we got to start to pick it up. we’ve got enough guys uh we believe in like a number of them to be part of the next the starters next great team and just start developing them kind of like with Houston a couple years ago when they had a lot of high selections uh so two years ago and then they went out and got Fred Vanble and Dylan Brooks and it seemed like whoa this team I don’t know are they really a Fred Vanble or Dylan Brooks away from making the playoffs in the west it didn’t feel like they were quite there and in the at least in the east you have a better chance of doing that type of thing if they not saying that they have to do that type of thing where like get bring in some veterans that could really bolster them. But at that point, yeah, they’re going to have to really get, you know, start to compete. So, just looking at how long they’ve been out of the playoffs, that the timeline you gave makes a lot of sense. Um, and I guess we’ll just kind of see though what could end up happening on draft night. I think that’s the most interesting thing because uh when you look at if they stay at six, they’re probably taking a guard and it’s seems like guards are mostly dominating that range. Um and they’ve as far as what they can do to trade up, I I I get the feeling they’re going to try to be aggressive to try to move up a little bit. Uh they’ve got the 18th pick to work with. They’ve got a couple future picks. nothing super valuable. Like they have that uh the one that they just got from Philly, that 26 pick that’s going to be the lesser of OKC, Houston, Clippers, all those teams are going to be pretty good. And if OKC is going to be the best team again, then you’re looking at like 29 30th pick and then they have that Warriors pick. I think that’s all the the the future picks they have from not this year. So I guess the question is how aggressive do they want to be? Do they I don’t know if they can get up to two unless they’re going to be like a facilitator as part of something bigger. If the Spurs are like, you know, if they’re in on Giannis or something, that’s maybe how the Wizards could possibly squeeze in. I’m looking more so at three. Uh and maybe there could be some type of bidding war among other teams in the Washington’s range like Utah, uh New Orleans, uh you know, those teams. Maybe there is going to be something. So, I mean, do you have any any have you thought about like what that type of trade could look like? Yeah, you mentioned the future assets they have as well. Um, like the the Philly pick, it’s there’s it’s like the worst of like four different teams. It’s very complicated. Um, they also have uh Portland’s 2029 first round pick from the Denny Abia trade. It’s the second most favorable of that pick. So, there’s there’s other protections on that. Definitely probably the most valuable pick they have in my opinion. 100%. Um the Warriors I think is top 20 protected. So again like these are protected first. They’re going to be late first probably. So they’re not unbelievable assets but they are assets nonetheless. Um and I understand the perspective of you know the Wizards like outsiders saying look you have so many young players. You already had three picks last year, two picks the year before. You’re going to have a lot of picks in the future. Like you said 10 firsts, 14 seconds. Like you have the stockpile. Do you really need to make three picks in this draft? Like do you need to do that? you even need to make a pick at 18, you should just package six and 18, move up a couple spots and get your guy. Um, and I understand that if if it was for Dylan Harper, I would do it in a heartbeat. Obviously, they’re not going to trade one. They’re going to take Cooper flag there. And so, like you mentioned, you’re looking at three. That’s the most likely landing spot. So, to me, Oh, go ahead. No, no. Finish your thought. Sorry. No, no, no. You’re not. I thought you were done. Keep going. To me, Ace Bailey is not worth it. And that might be a hot take. I don’t think he’s going to be this next version of Kevin Durant. Maybe he could be like a Brandon Ingram as like a lanky guy that can score the basketball, but I don’t think the defense is really going to be there. And the Wizards have been we need defense with our draft picks. Um, you know, like apart from Tristan Vukovich, who’s not a great defender, all four of the other Will Dawkins first round picks have or just picks in general have been defenders. Uh they can obviously contribute on offense, but that’s a big thing. You got to defend. You got to have size. You have to be athletic. That’s kind of the mold for the Wizards. Um and so when I look at Ace Bailey, I don’t see it. VJ Edgecom maybe, but again, these prospects aren’t I need to trade up for him. And it’s also complicated as well with the Sixers having three. I don’t know who they want on the Wizards. Like obviously they’re a team that’s going to try to contend. You know, they trade back to six. They take Kona Nipple, who I think would be a perfect fit for them. But if they do that, they don’t need Cory Kispert. Not saying that they’re the same player because they’re not, but you don’t need him. And and who do you want on the Wizards? Rashawn Holmes. I I I don’t really know what moves the needle. And then if you’re the Wizards, like yeah, you move up for for Bailey, but are you taking back PG’s contract? Like it’s it’s very complex. There’s a lot of moving parts there. Um, maybe you have more insight on like specific packages, but you know, when I was trying to finagle with with moves, it just it was really tough for me to find one. So, I’m going to release a video tomorrow about the Sixers and their options trading down because I think that is something they’re definitely going to explore. Like, that was my initial thought once they moved up to three. Like, they were just lucky to keep the pick and now they they moved up. They’ve got a very high payroll as it is. And I think one like if they can get some future draft picks out of it and maybe save some money, maybe get off some of their a guy like Drummond or something to just save some money uh and then just move down a couple spots that might be really worthwhile for the Sixers and something they seriously consider, especially if there is someone in that like five through nine range that they’re they just really like uh and are willing to trade down for. So, as far as the Paul George contract, I just don’t think they’re going to be able to move it. I don’t think there’s really any framework with any of these teams that they’d be negotiating with where it makes sense for for that team to take them on. Like if I’ve seen like Larry Markin and five thrown out for uh three and Paul George and yeah, the Sixers would take that in a heartbeat. The it makes no sense for the Jazz and they’re probably going to require a lot more from the Sixers. they’ll probably want them to send out like future draft picks from um the they probably demand future picks from the Sixers and then if you’re the Sixers like well do you really want to give up more future value when you don’t even know you’re not even sure like how long Embiid’s going to play for and at what level too much it it just too much uncertainty on both ends for that to happen. So I think a deal that they end up doing if they move down it’s something a little more smaller scale. So like when you look at teams like the Wizards, Utah, um, and Brooklyn for example, they all have additional firsts in this pick. So like as a simple thing, they could include those first. So if the Wizards wanted to pair the 18, okay, you know what? That might be worth the Sixers moving down three spots, but all these other teams can do the same thing. So then, like, where else is the value? Okay, well these teams could take on Drummond for the Sixers. Uh, but then you might have to start dipping into like some future like a future pick or something. And that’s where I think like the if there is a bidding war, that’s where it gets really good for the Sixers. So that’s where I’m wondering like how aggressive a team like the Wizards would be willing to go. Like would they be willing to trade that 29 first to move up three spots? Maybe even in addition to their 18. That starts that seem that feels like a lot. And that might be like especially if there is a bidding war that that might be like the line where maybe the Wizards don’t want to go quite there. Now, you make a good point. Like I mentioned, it’s Ace Bailey. Uh, very polarizing prospect, it seems. Uh, again, a lot of people were really high on him, a lot of people not so much. Um, it just I think comes down to do the Wizards view him as like that guy. Um, do they really want to give up extra draft capital? Because I understand the merit, right? Like you have so many first round picks, you’re not going to really need all of them. And if you keep them, you know, in an ideal world, you’re contending in 26 27, you can use the Portland pick, the Golden State first round pick to acquire veterans and to build your roster that way. Um because the Wizards historically haven’t attracted the bigname free agents. So, a lot of it’s going to have to be done through trade. Uh but again, if the Wizards package six and say, “Here’s the 2029 Portland first, I’m going to move up three spots.” And then Philly therefore picks up another asset that they can use at the deadline. Um, and then honestly, Ace Billy to the Sixers, like I don’t I don’t know how that fit works. Like, Ace Billy’s kind of a three, four years down the line, maybe he’s going to be really good. Um, versus a guy like Khan from Duke, I think, is one of the most NBA ready players in this draft. He’s probably going to help the Sixers more. So, it depends on on I guess what Philly wants as well. Um, I I I looked into Charlotte. I don’t know why they would move out of four. They’re guaranteed Edgecomb or Bailey and they need as much talent as possible. Um, what I will say is the trade back uh is probably picking up more steam for the Wizards. I don’t know why. I mean, Jeremiah Fears, Trey Johnson, terrific, terrific prospects. Washington ranked 30th in offensive rating and offensive efficiency last year, 27th in points per game last year. They need scoring. And I understand Trey Johnson, Jeremiah Fears, not great defenders, and the Wizards like to draft defense. Um, but again, you trade out of that pick. The Wizards need talent. like you’re not you’re not at that stage where you’re deconstructing anymore. You need talent. You need offensive talent if you’re the Wizards. And if you trade out of that, you’re leaving all that offensive talent on the table. It’s what move back three spots and take Kaman Malawok or Derek Queen. Um you know, you need talent if you’re the Wizards. You don’t need picks. And we touched on that with the trading up. If you’re going to trade up, you have assets to do that. Again, if you’re going to trade back, you’re just going to stockpile all these picks and then where are you sat? You’re still in 13, 14, 15 in your conference. you just have more picks. That’s the only thing. Um, so very interesting to to kind of break down, you know, where where they would go in terms of trades. Well, maybe instead of trading back from six, they could move up from 18. Uh, that’s another possibility there if they only want to if they want to try to move up like seven, eight spots. Maybe there’s a a scenario there. But yeah, if they’re going to move up from six to three, it seems like you’re just you’re you’re just betting on pure upside. Yeah. But there’s I’ve seen all the push back, a lot of doubts about what Ace Bailey can become. So one if these teams are going to if one of these teams do move up to three, you just want that pure upside and you know just take the risk and see what happens. Uh and for the Sixers, you mentioned like getting a guy like Khan. Yeah, that’s I feel like that’s exactly like the type of player they would probably target if they were to move down a couple spots. So, as we get closer, you know, we haven’t really seen picks in like the top seven, eight really get traded at all in the past few years, and this year feels like we’re primed for something based on these lottery results. So, I’m excited. I’m excited to see how the draft shakes out, and I think the Wizards will be particularly a active. They’ve been aggressive in the past two drafts, doing draft night trades, getting extra picks or what what just doing something. So, I think especially from the Wizards, it’s going to be a very entertaining night for sure. Yeah, I was I was you you took the words out of my mouth. I was literally just about to say that Will Dawkins is an aggressive GM on draft night. The last two drafts he’s traded up he traded up from eight to seven. Uh gave him another second round pick to get Balok Labali because he really liked that talent. I think Utah was also trying to jump Washington, so they need to give up something to move up and take him. In last year’s draft, they trade Denny Aia. I mean, again, he had a phenomenal season, and it’s a trade that people still talk about today as whether it was the right move or the wrong move, but Washington wanted Bob Carrington. They brought him in for a pre-draft workout, I believe, the night before the draft. Um, and eventually they were like, “Okay, we need this guy.” And they traded up to 14. Cost a lot, but they got him. Um, and so I I can understand that happening. And then they did it again with uh 26 and 50 last year to move up just two spots and take Keshan George. So, they’re aggressive and I could definitely see more so, like you mentioned, move from 18 to like the 12, 13, 14 range, uh, versus a move from six to like three. I think the move from 18 makes more sense. Maybe give up number 40 that they got via Phoenix. Um, because there’s a lot of great talent in the mid to late lottery. Um, and for a team like the Wizards, again, you don’t need pick 40. You have so many young players. You need great talent and and offensive talent and all that stuff. And I think that’s that’s the move that I’d be looking for. I agree. I think I don’t if if the Sixers are going to move down, I feel like they’ll probably be be some teams out bidding the Wizards. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but um I yeah, I I kind of just feel like they’ll be able to get whatever like what they can navigate getting into whatever selection they want that’s like basically not one or two or or three for that matter. U so let’s get into their actual off season. Um, just want to briefly touch on for free agency, which probably won’t be too much. So, I’m looking at their cap sheet. Whoever’s watching, you guys can see it on cap sheets.com on the Wizards page. So, they’ve got 16 players right now, and they were going to be a cap space team until they traded for Marcus Smart. Uh, took on his money for this year, and now they’re going to be over the cap, which is fine. They’ve got about like 18 19 million in space below the tax. They’re that’s going to be their their hard cap. They’re not going to want to go over the finish the season over the tax. Um couple I mean they could save some more money. They’ve got Rashan Holmes expire uh non-G guaranteed deal. They could wave them, but either way they’re going to be over the tax. They’ve got a couple trade exceptions like the Valentunis one worth 10 million. Uh they’ve got the mid-level exception. So last year they used a portion of their midle to sign Bay uh who was injured. He didn’t play at all this year. They got him on a pretty sweet deal. if like if he comes back and is like, you know, pretty close to form, uh, that’s an absolute steal. So, I think for the most part, they’re probably going to reserve the majority of their mid-level for just, you know, as a trade exception for trade opportunities, take on some more bad money with more picks or or uh prospects that they like attached. But I wonder if you’ve had any like second draft guys in mind that could, you know, that were like kind of like in the Sadi Bay situation, not necessarily injured, but maybe a guy that might not get uh he he’s supposed to be a restricted guy, but then maybe won’t get his qualifying offer. Like, do you have anyone in mind that you feel like the Wizards should potentially target in that same vein? It’s it’s tough to to really dive into like that because last off season I was as surprised as anybody with the Valentuna signing. I mean you a guy that’s in his 30s and you know not the the most spry center at all and you had just drafted a center in Alexar. So I understood the mentorship aspect of it. Uh and a steal of a contract by the way as well. I mean three years $30 million for a guy in Valenunis that is not an all-star but he’s a solid player. and then eventually you trade him for two second round picks at the deadline. You basically just like steal two seconds from Sacramento. Um that’s kind of what I envision. Um again Sadique Bay with part of that mid level. He’s making like 6.3 a year or something. It’s an unbelievable contract. Um but those were kind of out of left field and I again maybe the Wizards are looking to target guys that I mean nobody really wanted Sadique Bay. They knew that he was be out the entire year. um no contender was like, “Hey, I have this cap space.” Especially with the Aprons now, they weren’t like, “Oh, here I have this part of my mid-leception. I’m going to give it to a guy that’s not going to play the entire season.” But the Wizards were one of the only teams that could could do something like that. Like taking someone that nobody wants and eventually he’s on a steel of a contract. Um so I I don’t have specific guys in mind, but I you know, more so the Wizards haven’t shown that they want to like recycle people’s draft picks. Um, again, like I’ve seen Jonathan Kaminga to the Wizards in signing trades and free agency and all of these combinations. That’s a pick that didn’t really work out for Golden State in, you know, whoever’s fault that is, whether it’s Steve Kerr or Kamingo or whatever. Um, but the Wizards haven’t shown that they want to recycle those those picks. They want to make their own. AJ Johnson being the exception obviously because he was just drafted. Um, but again, I could see the Wizards going for for veterans that they think they can flip at the deadline. Um, I don’t know anybody specific at the moment, but but someone that they can get on a cheap contract and eventually pick up more seconds. That’s kind of been their MO. So, yeah, that’s a great point. I just completely glossed over that with the Jonas Valentuna signing, they they, you know, they went over the market. They decided they they said, you know, who’s a veteran that is going to be of a of a scarse position and that we can potentially get something for later. And they correctly, you know, identified Valentunis as that player. they got two second round picks for him uh later. So maybe it’s like a wing or a big man again. Uh like if it’s a big man, maybe they want to try to make a like a mid-levelish type offer to a guy like Steven Adams or Brook Lopez. I don’t know. I’m just putting names out there maybe on the younger side. Is is Nerkich unrestricted? Nerkich is under contract. So they could they could trade for him. Uh you know they can take him off Hornets the Hornets hand. So yeah, like if there is a player that they they know they can get and they have like a you know they have a good idea what the market will be for him by the trade deadline. Yeah, they could definitely go through that route. Again, as far as like the young players, I don’t think they’ll really have like a Sadique Bay type situation. Again, if you look at the top restricted guys, I’m looking at the list. You got Kaminga as you mentioned, Giddy, Camp Thomas, Aldama, Quinn Grimes. I I think all those guys are going to be restricted. I don’t think the Wizards really going to have any opportunity to try to get those guys if they wanted to. So then if you look at some of the guys who might become who might uh you know not get their their qualifying offers. Um oh I should also mention probably DaVon Mitchell and Don Sharp probably get their qualifying offers. So you know do are if you’re the Wizards do you want to go after a guy like Zyra Williams or Trey man or Isaiah Jackson? Um, I guess Zy kind of has like the most upside relative to a Sadi Bay type. Um, but I think for the So, I’m not really seeing too much there. Maybe. And then, so then in the end, you’re probably just hoping to continue getting some more young players through a trade if you’re taking back some bad money and they still have the avenues to do that. Uh, we’ll get into the veterans in a bit. Um, but I do like that you me you reminded me about the Valenunis thing. I feel like that’s going to be that another route that they just try to do. Go buy low or or sign uh a vet that they think will be will have like a nice market later. Yeah. I mean, as a team, the Wizards have a lot of bad contracts, but that’s that’s kind of by design, right? Like they got pick 18 because they took on Marcus Smart. He’s making 21 next year. Nobody wanted that contract. The Grizzlies didn’t want it so much that they said, “Here’s my first round pick. I don’t want it on my books anymore.” Um, the Chris Middleton move is a little bit different because they wanted Kyle Koosma. Milwaukee did. Um, and they didn’t want Chris Middleton. It wasn’t too much of a contract thing, but the Wizards were one of the only teams that would take on $34 million of Chris Middleton who can barely stay on the floor. Um, and look, he was solid for Washington in the games that he he played. Um, and I think he’ll probably play some until the deadline next year, depending on what they decide to do with him. Uh, but they have they have, like you mentioned, a lot of contracts that like nobody really wants. I mean, Jordan Pool, $30 million. I don’t know if anybody really wants that contract at all. Um, it looks a lot better now than it did when they first acquired him. Uh, but they have they have bloated deals on this team. They have two guys making $30 million. Uh, but again, working along the margins, if they can find another deal like that with with Valenunis, um, again, LA wanted Valenunis. The Lakers were like the top people, the top contender for him at free agency last year. and Washington swooped in and said, “We’ll give you more money.” And then at the deadline, it was the Lakers and the Kings and the Kings ended up paying more money for Balen Junis. So, it’s kind of like you’re looking at how can I get as much value out of this guy, not necessarily who can I sign that’s going to be the best for me long term. I think that’s kind of what you’re looking at. Yeah. So, you started with Jordan Pool, which I think is a good place to start. Uh went from arguably the most toxic contract in the league last year to not being that anymore. uh you know played a lot better. Now the deal obviously by aging looks a lot better. Only two years left at slightly above 30 mil a year but I’m still not sure what the appetite is for him at that number and who the teams are and if they are going to trade him it’s probably they’re probably likely like likely taking back like a contract just as like equally big uh and might be even like like a a less productive player. So, I will say I’ll just say this because the Wizards for the most part have held firm to their prices when you look at what they’ve done the past few years. Like they they didn’t really get anything for Porzingis. They got Taius Jones as a centerpiece and I think like one second round pick and the expectation was they would flip Tai Jones later and and they didn’t. He hit free agency and he just left as an unrestricted free agent and it and now we’re like now the same thing kind of happened with Malcolm Brogden where they got him as part of the Avia trade. Uh but this number was just like a little too high for even like on an expiring deal for a contender to take on and he didn’t get bought out and unless they guess something in a science trade looks like they’re not really going to get anything from him either. So I on one hand like you I think the Wizards like they could have had maybe they could have had more picks. I don’t know. But I think for the most part they’ve done well just holding on to their prices and and you know sticking to that even if it means letting some of these guys go. So it wouldn’t be shocking if all the guys we mentioned particularly the uh you know the older ones like pool uh you know if they just kind of ride it out with them if nothing if they don’t really get any uh sufficient offer for them in the future. It’s a great point. I’m glad you made that point. Uh the Taius Jones is probably like Wizards fans very happy consensus with this front office and everything they’ve done. Uh but there’s two things that they really haven’t liked. Uh it’s not trading Taius Jones because there were reported offers on the table for multiple seconds. Washington wanted a first and they held out. And that could be good sometimes because you’re sitting there saying, “Look, I’m not going to just give it to you because that’s all I can do.” Like I’m I’m going to stay firm on my price and it maybe helps with future negotiations. Uh but again, you have that with Ty Jones, Malcolm Brogden, Landry Shamut. These are all veterans that they could have extracted some value from and they got nothing for them. They’re all just walking in free agency. Um you have a guy like Rashawn Holmes that you didn’t trade. Um you mentioned it last year, it’s the same exact thing. Like he was I think last year was like 500,000 guaranteed. They ended up uh not guaranteeing it and then signing him to the same exact deal just with another year. Now it’s $250,000 guaranteed. Uh, and we’ll see what they do there. But again, the other move is the Kyle Kosma trade that they didn’t make when Dallas wanted him at the deadline two years ago. Koozma was basically like, I don’t want to go there. And the Wizards were like, okay, we won’t trade you. They could have gotten a first round pick from Dallas. They ended up making the Middleton trade and they get AJ Johnson, but no first round pick. And so, while that can be good, uh, sticking to your guns and stuff, it could also come back to bite you. And I think that Wizards fans have have have that as the one blemish on on what otherwise has been a great run for the front office so far. So yeah, I’ve seen that criticism especially in the first year when they took over. No first for Beiel, no first for Porzingis. So they didn’t I don’t think they got their first first until the Gaffer trade. Uh so I I understand that criticism. So, but I I don’t I think ultimately it’s not really I don’t want to invalidate it, but I I I think in the long run it it didn’t really hurt them because you talk we talk about the Taius Jones trade again. Uh non-trade where okay, maybe they could have got in multiple seconds for him and they didn’t. Uh you know, one you’re you could also hold out for a sign and trade later. Uh you know, but you’re taking a risk there. You don’t know if that’s going to happen. But now, you know, we look at the smart trade. It’s possible that maybe because they’ve held their prices from like the Tai Jones situation, maybe that helped them in negotiations with the smart trade and, you know, maybe they wouldn’t have been able to extract the first if teams saw that they’re willing to take on bad money for seconds or whatever it is. So, I think in the long run, like we we don’t know. We’re not we we don’t know what we obviously don’t know what the how the negotiations are going on, but uh they the the volume of picks that they’ve gotten has increased over time. Getting two for Denny, uh getting one for taking on Smart. Um you know, obviously they didn’t get a first for for Koosma, but you can say they got like a first adjacent player with a AJ Johnson who was just the first round pick. So, I think value-wise they’re doing a pretty good job. Um, and I guess it’s just a matter of, you know, converting some of those picks into uh that next potential all-star because once they get that allar and that, you know, nothing else really matters. Yeah. I mean, they they need a number one and and that’s been known. Uh, it’s going to be tough. It’s not like you can’t find a number one at any point in the draft. I mean, Jokic was what, the 40th pick or something. um like you can find talent really anywhere if you know what you’re doing. Um it would have been easier if you could just say, “Hey, I’m taking Harper or Flag and and I’m probably gonna have a star.” Uh but again, it’s not the end of the world. Like you wanted to be top two, obviously, but you have six, you have 18. You can parlay that into whatever pick you want or make both picks. But there’s still talent here and they just they they need that guy. They’re a guy away. Um I mean, if you look at the people still in the playoffs right now, I mean, the Pacers have Hallebertton. uh Knicks at Brunson and then you got SGA and an like those are all number one guys. Um other than that um you know no team that didn’t have that clearcut number one you know they’re not going to be in that conference final. Um and they it’s not just them making it but you need you need someone to lead you. I mean the Pistons had Cade and I see a lot of people mentioning that the Wizards could be like the Pistons um because they got number five after u backto-back years after they were the worst team in the league. but they also got one like they they got the number one guy. So you can pick five multiple years, but you already got the number one pick. Same with the Magic. They got the number one pick. Um so it’s it’s going to be a tougher road for the Wizards and those teams, but um you know, just got to draft well. Yeah, and I think they’ve been drafting pretty reasonably well given the where they are with they when they make these selections. Uh we t I think you very quickly touched on Kispert. He could be another guy maybe the Wizards look to trade up uh for trading up purposes. I don’t know like back to the Sixers thing. I don’t know how much interest they’d have in him. Um but you know that could be somewhere especially if they do get uh Khan at six. Maybe that makes some sense for the Wizards. Smart. I wouldn’t be surprised if it just kind of ends up going the same path as Tai Jones and what Brogden is now cuz I don’t think there’s going to be a market for him at the moment. He’s I think he needs to like play pretty well to see if maybe by the trade deadline there’s going to be some teams interested and maybe I guess at most you get like some seconds. Uh but yeah, I mean wouldn’t be surprised. I I doubt I doubt and now I think to the to also to the Wizards benefit they haven’t bought out anybody like they could have bought out I don’t know if Brogden would have wanted a buyout uh to help you know so he could join some other team but that didn’t happen I you know I unless may maybe they are open to something like that uh but hopefully that you know with smart they can actually trade him for some seconds but it seems like if uh you know I think buying out a player can also maybe sometimes kind of play to the at at that disadvantage we’re talking about where if you’re taking like just a couple seconds for a certain guy that might hurt your negotiation later. Maybe I’m I’m you know just a theory. Maybe it’s it’s best for a team like the Wizards not to buy out a veteran that like would easily be coveted in the buyout market. Yeah, that was the rumor when they got Brockton was that he would get bought out. didn’t get bought out and then after they didn’t trade him at the deadline that was the rumor they’ll buy him out. They they don’t do that. I don’t know if it’s just this current front office, but like they’re not fans of that. But I think you touched on the head like you need to have some leverage and it’s not always going to, you know, help you in that moment. Like you could have maybe gotten a second or two out of all of these deals, but they held firm and like you said like maybe don’t get they don’t get the first round picks that they had gotten at some of these moves because teams are like, “Okay, they have their price and they’re not budging.” Um, and that’s that’s a good thing. You want to be a team that people are like, “Okay, when we’re negotiating with them, it’s going to be really tough to get them down to where we want them to be at. Um, and if the Wizards, you know, are willing to pay a couple second round picks that they could had um to do that, then I think that’s a a worthwhile worthwhile move for them.” And I think you hit that on the head right there. Yep. And but look, generally speaking, I think the Wizards are doing all the right things. Uh, I know like as far as like the players they’ve got in Yeah. It’s hard to see who’s going to be that A1 guy. Could take a little bit longer, but I think they just got to, you know, trust the process and uh I think they’re going to be in a pretty good spot in the coming years. But I think we touched on just about everything. Very excited to see what happens on draft night. Uh Greg, thanks for joining me. Do you have anything coming up we should be on the lookout for? Yeah. Well, well, first, thanks Yosi for having me on. This is a blast. Always enjoy, you know, watching your stuff and and following you on Twitter. So, make sure you guys are following him first and foremost before I plug myself. Um, I got a couple pods coming out this week. It’s the Wizards podcast. Pretty generic name, but it’s what you’re going to get. It’s just 30 to 40 minutes once twice a week about the Wizards. Um, putting out, you know, an episode this week about the draft. You know, Wizards have six, eight, 40. Um, there’s a lot of discussions on what they should do and Yosi and I touched on some of that as well. So, um, be on the lookout for those episodes and and then Bullets Forever as well. It’s the best site to get Wizards coverage. Um, so make sure you’re reading up on on all the stuff with the Wiz there. So make sure you guys subscribe to the Wizards podcast and follow him on Twitter at Greg Finnberg. Really great Wizards content. And yeah, make sure you’re following me on Twitter, Blue Sky, uh, YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, all under my name. Subscribe to Third Apron. Having a discount there right now. And check the link in the description about sports business classroom uh, coming up in about like six weeks or so. a lot of good NBA people and the media people are going to be there and I’ll probably So I have a video coming out tomorrow and I’ll probably have another uh stream

Greg Finberg of BulletsForever and the Wizards podcast joins the show to discuss the Wizards upcoming offseason.

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