Should Nikola Jokić and the Nuggets run it back, again? | Serbian Corner

Should Nikola Jokić and the Nuggets run it back, again? | Serbian Corner

[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Hello everybody and welcome to episode 143 of the world’s longest tender Denver Nuggets spin-off podcast. Welcome to the DNVR Nuggets’s Serbian Corner. My name is Mchuk and before we begin, please let me remind you to like the video on YouTube and if you haven’t already, subscribe to the NVR Sports YouTube channel and the NVR Nuggets podcast channel. The audio version is perfect for your commute or to make your office/home office time more bearable. If you want to support the show more directly, you can become a Patreon supporter at patreon.com/middlavc, just like my codeier supporters Peter Plumber and Daniel Lynch. Patreon supporters can enjoy the audio version of this show without the ads. They can also send ideas for guests and topics for the show and come on the show during the summer when the game show month returns with even crazier trivia games than ever before. It’s actually going to happen pretty soon uh in in a in a couple of weeks. Okay, the season is over, folks. Game seven started with one of the most heroic mo moves in recent sports history. Aaron Gordon, who was diagnosed with a second grade hamstring strain, which requires a full month of rehab to heal, decided to play in what ended up as the last game of the Denver Nuggets 2024 2025 season. And not only play, but kick ass, dominating the rebounds under both baskets, scoring and leading by example. The other guy who brought it was Christian Brown who scored a bunch of points in the first quarter. The only one the Nuggets won in this game. They were up five after having a double-digit lead in the first uh at the first break. Joker was playing against eight guys, quadrupled for most of the game, plus the ref crew led by Scott Foster, which made sure nothing outside of absolutely obvious bludgeoning of the best player in the world would be called a foul. But the ref crew wasn’t the reason the Nuggets lost this game. They lost the exact same game seven to Minnesota last year and haven’t learned any lessons from it. It was again Jamal Murray and Michael Porter who couldn’t handle the physicality allowed by the refs. Jamal didn’t have the health excuse like last year. Mike was injured, but nobody can convince me he would play much better if he were healthy against that kind of defense that was allowed. Russell Westbrook was very bad again and it is possible to correlate his first entrance to the game with the start of the Nuggets’s downfall in this game. But that won’t erase the great contributions in the Clippers series from Russ. Still, his overall performance in the OKC series will make it more difficult for the Nuggets to offer him a new bigger contract he most definitely deserved during this season. In the end, one of the most frustrating seasons of the Yic era had two parts. In the first part, there were a much worse team that they should have been with a transcendent start like Joic and both the GM Calvin boot and head coach Michael Malone got deservedly fired for it. The second part under David Adman looked a lot better, brought us a four seed instead of a playing spot. and then 14 playoff games with most of them being awesome to watch. This group showed incredible resilience again, but also showed it wasn’t good enough for more than game seven of the second round. The final grade of this season depends on your expectations. If your expectation from the Nuggets is to be a frisky playoff team, you love this season. If your expectation from the Nuggets is for them to win championships, you probably hated most of this season and hope the new GM is going to reconstruct the roster to become better. We’ll see if that’s something the Nuggets want to do within the next 45 days. Okay. I wanted to to uh give an intro saying how uh unfairly great uh my guest squad today is because uh it is uh it is the DNVR owns DNVR’s own uh playoff crew of uh Ryan Green and uh Brendan Vote. But since Brendan is still not here with us, he has some technical difficulties. Uh, we have the the main guy be behind the behind the camera, RG. Welcome to the show. What up, everybody? Thanks for having me, man. Uh, so I’m guessing you’re starting to catch up on your sleeping schedule after months and months of grueling efforts. Oh, man. This is the first time I’ve actually woken up since we landed back from game seven. So, I’m glad. I’m I’m Thank you for getting me out of the slumber and moving. It’s probably best for my health. Uh, no, it’s wild. What the the part about it um is like it I didn’t understand how they were doing it by playing basketball games. It’s so exhausting just going and covering and like being at the arena and then like these guys are playing physical basketball. I I an complete uh uh just impressed by them. Completely impressed by them um and what they were able to do. And um they could have used fatigue as a as a an excuse because I was, but they didn’t. Um and they they took the 68 team as as far as they could. So, as I mentioned in the in the intro, it was an utterly crazy season from the Nuggets. They had a horrible regular season under Michael Malone, who is a true franchise legend, but needed to step away from the team for them to start playing for each other. Uh again the season included the best Yokic season so far which is insane to say after he won three and should have won four MVPs in the last four seasons and then just when I thought this would be the season I would remember only for the triple double average on like above 60% true shooting from a big guy David Alman stepped in and the team went on a legendary yet way too short 14ame run. Yeah. And and the only people who had as legendary of a run next to the Nuggets were were you and Brendan. And I I mentioned this. I I I texted I mean you did like I I just loved your coverage. Hell yeah. From both of you. So many great texts from Brendan. So many amazing amazing uh video stories from each and every game. Uh and and some exclusive material as well. Um, I know I I spent two games together with you guys, games one and two of the Clippers series, and I know how much stuff I could have seen there, you know, in the press room and in the in the locker room. But having 14 games to do that, yeah, there must be just a million stories you have seen. But how do you determine which things you just cannot put out there and just have to leave it for the Slack chat? Oh man. Uh it’s not as much as you think. Um obviously like we can like like Oklahoma City like in order to get even to just the press room where we interview these guys, we had to go through where they like do all their training sessions and like stretching and injuries and all that stuff. So you’ll go by and you’ll be like, “Oh, I didn’t know that player was dealing with that. That looks painful.” and all that kind of stuff. Um, I’m I’m a photo talk. I’m not trying to get into any like breaking news or anything. I don’t want like even anything like misconstrued is like me trying to like break news. That’s not what I really wanted to uh uh do in my line of work. Um, and it’s just uh that’s that’s a lot of anxiety. Uh, if you have breaking news and you are hoping it’s right. Um, so there’s definitely some stuff. I’ve seen some uh some some angry players. I’ve I’ve uh seen some, you know, even not just in basketball. I’ve I’ve heard some uh you know, football players on the on the field before game uh uh wanting to, you know, pointing out the the women in the first row, you know, like that’s just stuff like that. But um in terms of like shocking like I can’t believe this is I I saw that. It’s not as much as you would think. That does happen in the locker room most of the time. Um, and sometimes you will walk into a situation where you were like, “Oh, this this probably wasn’t a friendly environment a few minutes ago.” Um, but it’s not it’s it’s it’s definitely not as like, oh yeah, Aaron Gordon had like his hamstring strain and he, you know, got his toes amputated. I don’t know stuff like that. That’s not under my purview. Yeah. Uh, I’m glad that Ramona Shelburn uh got that story out about AG and Russ having a a heated discussion after game three of the Clippers series if I remember correctly. I’m glad she did it because you guys of course knew about it and we’re just good sports not to spill a story like that out and and just disrupt the Nuggets in the middle of their playoff run. But at the same time, because I I knew about the story at the time when it happened as well. Uh were you surprised to see how cohesive the team became after that or was it in any way correlated to to to like calling out a teammate uh in in such manner? I think uh no I think I mean that’s like when you get rid of your head coach and your GM and I know they like I know Adelman carried a lot of weight and he’s obviously the head coach now but like I really sensed that it was like the guys saying okay it’s us like now no one can say okay we got you know booted out of this where I thought they were going to I thought they were going to lose in the playin the way they were going the way that season was going I thought they were going to lose the last three lose the playin and I would have an early offseason and I think the uh I think getting rid of just the two responsible parties was like okay it’s just us now and we have the best you know what we think is the best starting five in the NBA and if we just come together and be good for whatever how many games who knows how far we can go. Um, so I think it was really like I think guys were probably more open about it because of that. But I think it’s also good because they realize, yo, I I don’t have anyone to like trust to speak out. You know, David Adelman’s probably trying to find his uh where he fits into all this, how good his voice is, how loud he needs to be with us. Um, but I think I genuinely think um and we heard it a lot from him in press conferences that I think it was a lot of player accountability in that room mainly because it had to be. there was no one else to blame. Like you were a championship team, the GM and head coach were fired. How good are you actually? Was it was it because of them that you guys were good or what? So, um I think it definitely needed to happen. I think when the negative energy is gone, I think it’s not so much again, I think players don’t feel like they are attacked as much by other players. I think they do genuinely view it as, okay, you’re speaking up because I need to listen and we’re trying to do this together and get better. you’re not just doing this because it’s coming from the coach or whatever, like that kind of stuff. So, I but again, I am still surprised that they did what they did. Um especially when you look at the series that they had where they had a lot of breaking points, right? Like they had MPJ turning it over in game two against the Clippers that lost him and then he injures himself. Like that could have been a fivegame series easily and they didn’t let it happen. you know, uh it the Thunder series that that we saw how uh Jamal and the Nuggets reacted to the physical Timberwolves in last year’s series, they had the ex pretty much the exact same experience and to their credit, I thought they handled it a lot better. Um they did have two blowouts. Um, game two I thought was kind of coming. Game seven was also kind of coming. But like the fact that they and we now see especially with the Timberwolves in the Western Conference Finals, the fact that they did what they did, I think is severely impressive um for everyone involved there. And I guess you could also say for David Adelman. I mean, what a what a scenario to have to walk into and get with all of these championship winning guys and then just say, “Hey, look, if we’re just good, we can beat any team.” And so, um, I’m not saying he was perfect throughout the run, but I thought he I thought he handled the team well, and I thought their playoff spirits while pushed to the limit were pretty much good the entire time. Uh, that that’s just great great insight. And before we go back to the the series and everything we saw, well, actually both series, both the Clippers and the OKC series, uh, I just wanted to to take people behind the scenes a bit. What would you call your best and worst experience while covering the playoff the playoffs like the months of of I don’t know how many 12 hours of work per day or something like that? They’re pretty long. Um so like for me I it doesn’t it is there are long days but like even if I wasn’t in this job I would want to be at the Nuggets playoff game every single one. Like that’s that’s what I want to do. So it’s it is exhausting. I’ll tell you one of the coolest things uh especially for traveling and like covering the Nuggets, one of the coolest things that you get to do is go to LA and go to Oklahoma City and watch those fans get to watch Nicole Joic bless their teams. It’s so fun. I know they lost uh what was it game four where Joic had the sombore shuffle over chat late to tie it up. the the reaction to the crowd from the of the Thunder fan when he hit that was so fulfilling because it’s like yes, you’re seeing what I have known since 2017 and that this man is just different and if you think if you even think that he can’t make any shot on the court, you’re absolutely wrong. Uh he’s he’s the only guy I’ve seen where people are doubling him at the end of the half so he doesn’t get off a a full court shot. I’ve It’s unbelievable. And so that’s one of the coolest things is watching all of these fans have to watch Jokic torment them because he’s so good. And so that’s always fun. Um the I don’t know downside. Uh you eat a lot of crappy stadium food, man. It’s not. I don’t care. Everyone thinks that the media is like some pampered group of guys and I have had some awful awful buffet style meals. Miro knows what I’m talking about. Um, and it’s just like that’s that’s some of the worst. Um, obviously there’s um in Oklahoma City that uh we have to like stand as photographers. We didn’t have seats because that the arena’s kind of small. So like standing the whole game kind of hurts after a while. So uh but complaints are little because I mean what an experience to just even get to cover uh this Nuggets team in general. Not just go places, but to see Nicole Joic and Jamal Murray and this this group do what they need to do. When you mention the the the food in the in the press area, I mean I I I’ve only been to one arena, so I cannot compare it to to to the other ones. Uh I mean one arena in America because if I compare it to the to the arena in Belgrade, there’s no food there. So I don’t know, man. Like all right, to be fair to be fair, games in Belgrade usually last for an hour and 45 minutes and NBA games it’s like it’s like five hours. It gets nothing. Yeah. With entrance and everything. So, so yeah. Yeah. I don’t know, man. I I thought it was nice. It was It was fine. It was fine. I had no no real issues. If If I would grade it to what I was able to buy for myself on a coarse field, no, that was better. Like field that that was that was really really good food that you Yeah. really good food. Okay. Uh let’s take uh one short break and after that we are going to go into into what happened in game seven versus the OKC. Don’t go anywhere. Okay, we are back and since we don’t have Brendan on the show, I decided to to call up uh one fan uh of the show who obviously doesn’t have anything better to do at at this uh time in the hour. Uh welcome to uh Eric Weather. Ah, that’s right. Oh, I think I’m losing connection here, guys. I need to I need to go. That’s right. You can’t get away from me. You can’t get away from me. Yo, are you still on Colorado time? Me? Yes. I mean, I’ve never left Colorado, so yes, I’m still on Colorado. This is what I meant. This is what I meant. I mean, the funny thing about it is even when you come to Serbia, you still are on Colorado time because that’s the only way you can you can perform, I guess, at your work. I mean, well, yeah. I um so every time I go to Serbia it’s for like 10 days and I I do it like kind of frequently and so it’s like an it would be incredibly irresponsible of me for just to take 10 days off like every three months. So I have to like work the whole time that I’m there and so that make means that I have to yes stay on Colorado time. So, I just show up. Um, I sleep all day long and I work and then I hang out with Christina in the evening and then in the morning and then I spend the rest of my time with RG when I’m in the Oh, that’s that’s rough. Well, well, it is what it is. Okay. So, RG, let’s start with you. So, game seven, first of all, the Nuggets even got to game seven against OKC, which is kind of a like not not a small miracle. How did they get there? And why in the end did they lose that game in your opinion? Oh man, they got there because I think they’re one of the few NBA teams that aren’t afraid of the Thunder. I think even after getting smoked in game two, I think they looked at, you know, they that’s kind of how the regular season went. They got blown out in one game. What was the back toback? They got blown out one game and then came back and blew them out. Like I just don’t think and that’s the championship mindset. I just don’t think that they were like they were like, “Okay, you guys may be a hot team, but you haven’t played us yet, so like what you got?” And um again, I wish they had uh played a healthier uh Nuggets team. It’s it’s kind of wild to think that the Nuggets may be one MPJ shoulder away from a Western Conference Finals trip. That’s so wild to think about. Um but that that’s just I I just think that they again weren’t afraid. I think the Thunder uh sensed that they weren’t afraid and that’s why I think they really tensed up in a lot of games. I think the Thunder did not play the the offense that they’re kind of used to. We saw it in game two and game seven, but the rest of them once the Thunder was actually slowed down, I think the Nuggets were like, “No, we’re as good as you. Like, let’s just make some shots.” And uh the Nuggets didn’t make shots. Game four and game five are going to hurt more and more if the Wolves keep losing. If the Thunder go to the finals and like sweep like it’s going to cuz seriously they have been the Thunder’s only three losses this postseason. It’s it’s uh it’s so wild to think of and that also is makes it tough for the future. Like I know a lot of fans probably want to blow it up and want to try some new teammates, but you look at this team and go look how close they were if they were just if MPJ didn’t dive on the floor, right? If if Aaron Gordon doesn’t kick the ball in a weird way that Tweaks is like, it’s so weird. And this is why championships are so hard to win because you need all of these little tiny details to go right. So I think in game seven we saw and it started out great. They were up what 21-10. Like it was it was exactly how they wanted it to go where they looked like the more experienced team and the Thunder looked like they couldn’t handle the pressure. And what the thing was was just the bench came in right and uh I think it was PW missing two free throws where it could have stretched it to 13 and 13’s like a really nice number. Instead they come back down and make it like a onepossession game and then I think the Thunder just realized oh we are genuinely hungrier than they are on defense. They they look tired. we are swarming. We’re really desperate because we really don’t want to lose this. They look like a team injured. And I just think that’s kind of what happened in game seven. But again, to even get there, to even make the Thunder sweat, you know, they were down 10, 2-1, like it it was not a guaranteed thing. And so I I it’s impressive, but again, the longer these playoffs go, I think the more it’s going to hurt realizing how close they actually were. Uh Dine, you’ve had like six chances to sleep on this. I don’t know how many of those chances you you’ve taken. How do you feel about this game today about the whole series or just game seven? Well, the game the game seven because the the series was I actually I refuse to look back at game seven. I feel like game seven was so ridiculous in such an insane outlier with the way that it was officiated with the way I just there’s so many factors that you look at. You’re like the the thing that I’m going to have the hardest time dealing with is what RG alluded to is just like they had them in the fourth quarter two separate games. They the Nuggets were in my opinion like they I think they’re the better team. I still think they’re the better team. I think that there were circumstances that got in the way. And you know, I mean, listen, this is it can sound like sour grapes to you if you if you wanted to, but I just I saw that the Nuggets were very primed and very poised to get past the Thunder. I started, we all did after game six being like, “Wow, we’ve got this. I’ve got this team figured out.” Like, um, and game seven was so disgusting in so many ways. Like, I just can’t even like go back to it. Um, to me it’s just I look at the totality of this team now and like what this season left us with is that, you know, it it was like early on when I was trying to get the other guys to even buy into this squad, it’s like I had seen enough. Like I knew that they were good enough and then it like I would always say it just comes down to luck to injury luck and circumstances that are going to be outside of their control. Y and I don’t I I kind of agree like I also think David Adelman like [ __ ] up we’re not at fastest, right? I could just say the f I have no idea. I think I think effed up two separate games and and really screwed up the uh um rotations down the stretch and wore Jamal and Joic down to the point where the young Thunder were actually able to take advantage of them. But like in the end I’m just like this I can’t even watch the playoffs now. I’m like the ah this kills me. It kills me. We should be here. Like we weren’t outclassed at all. We it you want to like after we lost to like the Warriors, you know that year you’re like well what are you going to do? And there’s times when you lose you’re like oh well and even last year I felt like listen they just got over on us because they got a lot more physical and they just figured out how to do it. And this one I’m like god damn it we just let it slip through our fingers. I’m so disgusted. Uh uh yeah, I I I like your your point of game seven being a complete outlier. Uh I don’t I don’t completely agree with it because we had the same kind of game seven last year where we were mad at the refs because they’ll just let everything slide and let the more physical team out physical us. So that happened for the second year in a row and I’m going to ask Brendan vote who just joined the show from the undisclosed location. Hopefully we’ll be able to hear him as well as we can see him right now. Brendan, were you surprised by the way game seven went considering what happened last year? I was not surprised by the way game seven went considering what happened to Aaron Gordon at the end of game six. That’s true. Actually, and I’ll tell you what, Ryan and I talked to some Thunder fans, as anecdotal as it gets here, but some very excited Thunder fans fresh off the win, and I think they would have told you the same thing. Like, if Aaron Gordon was healthy, if Michael Porter Jr. was healthy, I don’t think they think they win that game. Um, but the only thing I would say here is I would just push back on out of their control a little bit because I I I just wonder now if the question is the takeaway is after two seasons, is the organization, are the players, is the coaching staff doing everything within their control to make sure that five guys get to the finish line uh in one piece, right? And so like that’s just has to be whatever they can do from this starting point that they’re at now. forget sins of the past. Um, whatever they can do to facilitate a healthier group across the finish line. Like, I just don’t think you can watch these playoffs and and honestly say to yourself, “Oh, this team sucks. Oh, this team has no chance.” Like, it’s it’s the reason why the great source of frustration is how very close they are. But on the margins, they’re far away right now. And so, what can they do to sort of shore that up to sort of make sure that those five guys have a chance in the next game seven? Um, I think they were ready, Mirus, mentally to move past what downed them last year. I think in truth, they just really did run out of limbs, run out of gas, and that’s not an excuse, right? You have to look at that as an organization and say, “What can we do to make sure that doesn’t happen next year?” But so, do you think they ran out of like to me, it’s like the things that are out of their control are specifically MPJ and Aaron Gordon? like that. You can’t prep for that type of stuff. And it’s like Porter’s one is a freak injury. But but I mean Gordon also, right, playing on a soft tissue calf injury all year long. Like it’s just we’ve put they’ve the Nuggets have asked a lot of five guys. So I guess it’s more like how surprised do you get when any single one of them are hurt down the stretch? Like a freak accident on MPJ’s part. Sure. Um but but I’m just saying, Eric, like like obviously the team is close, so nailing the exceptions, right? like that in theory is under your control. Uh being willing to play like two guys a little more that is under your control. So just things like that, right? Uh Jamal Murray being in better shape so that he doesn’t get hurt to start the year and Joic and Porter, right? Who plays through injuries as much as anyone? Yeah. Like just you know what I mean? Can everyone do their part to give each other a little more leeway so that you get to May and it’s not like running on fumes. Let’s just do this from pride alone. I just my thing is like I don’t feel like they’re running on fumes. Like I feel like the guy So MP or uh Jamal comes in out of shape. That’s well documented. We don’t have to litigate that. But in the end he was there. It he wasn’t the one that that wore down. I mean he obviously like was worn down by specifically the the Thunder defense, but I didn’t get the sense that he just didn’t have anything left. It was just that like specifically Aaron Gordon tweaked whatever he tweaked and MPJ had one arm and it’s like beyond that it’s like okay well you need to make sure you have enough guys that can step up. You can get more like Julian Straw their performances that aren’t totally aberant and outlier. It’s like you actually have people on your bench that you can rely on. Russell Westbrook was a total no-show this entire Thunder series, which to me is actually way more shocking than I think we’ve uh given it um any airspace to. Like, I really thought that that was the guy that would be most motivated in that specific matchup to show who he is, who who he can still be. And he disappeared, man. and not only disappeared, he especially in that game seven that that lineup that he led was the reason that the the everything fell apart, you know. Sure. Sure. Sure. Well, to be fair, in 2025, it Russell Wber is the the easiest star in the league you can you can uh you know uh prevent from doing stuff he’s best at because you just let him do anything anything but getting into the paint. But RG after six games of this series, I thought that Nugget starting five was better than than OKC’s starting five. Yeah. And not by much, but they were I think they were better, but it was really obvious that, you know, from six to whatever 13, the OKC was so much better than than the Nuggets. And that were the margins because as soon as you let one let alone two guys fall out of the system or or play um uh play games uh with with any kind of uh um issues on them physically, you just cannot hold up against a team like that. So, can can the Nuggets do you believe the Nuggets can turn their roster into something that is less contingent on the health of five guys and nobody else? Man, I mean, I hope is it realistic at all? Specifically based on what Josh Grunkkey said a couple of days ago on his blessing. Again, I just don’t think financially they have a lot of wiggle room here. Um, I think they may want to try and get probably a little older. I think the issues that a lot of fans probably see now and maybe the team sees now is that the bench had developmental guys that uh, their fault or not were not developed. Like Payton Watson could still be a monster defense defensive guy in a few years. What he’s still what 21 22 like when he’s 25 26 maybe he’s an insane defensive star. But right now, as we saw in the playoffs, if he doesn’t make a few shots or he’s not on fire, it’s it’s nothing. And that’s the thing that stood out to me with the Thunder, it was just like, okay, they went to a role player and if that role player didn’t work, they went to another role player and they went to another and then they would go to another. It wasn’t like, oh, we tried a role player, it didn’t work. All right, let’s hope our main guys find the juice, which is what the Nuggets were doing. So, I think you can maybe go a little more experienced in the free agent market. maybe try and get some older guys. Um, but I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s I I like and and Adam has I think had been saying it on the show and you guys talked about it earlier this week, but like Bruce Bound did survive to like day two of free agency. Like there are guys like that out there that maybe you can just bring in and in your system maybe they finally find their mojo with Nicole Joic. Maybe they finally find something with the Nuggets. you know, you have to really, as Josh Kroni was saying, you have to trust the developmental part. Um, but I just don’t know. I don’t know. I I if I had to look at it or if I had to put money on it, I think that the Nuggets are going to look eerily similar next year as they did to this roster. And I think they’re going to try. Uh I just don’t know if anything is going to present itself. And I don’t know if there’s going to be any groundbreaking change that I can actually like kind of see happening uh that the Nuggets do this offseason. I think it’s just going to be a different it’s six through nine maybe. Okay. Uh let’s take one more short break and after that I want to talk a bit about the performances from from game seven. Uh even though we can agree that when when there is a blowout sometimes you just cannot have a really clear uh image of what happened there. But I do have some takes I I want to to run through you guys after the break. So don’t go anywhere. So Brendan, I mentioned in the in the intro that Jamal and Michael Porter couldn’t handle physicality of game seven at all. Just like last year, it was the the exact same scenario. Um the Nuggets don’t have the resources. The the Nuggets have too many guaranteed contracts on their books. They have 13 guys uh that are supposed to come back next year, including Russell Westbrook and Dario Sharic with their player options. Um, is is there at least a time to have an honest conversation within the organization about their number two guy and whether he is in 2026 ready to be as good as he was in 2023. when we are witnessing teams getting longer and more physical and more aggressive and those specific teams are actually not going away. Those teams are actually on a come-up especially in the Western Conference. Yeah, I think that there was an honest conversation to have before they gave him the extension. I think they had it, by the way, internally. And as we reflect on some of the various factions that were and no longer were in Denver, it’s not like the entire org was like, “Yeah, let’s just give them the money, no questions asked.” There were questions. Um, they asked them. I don’t know if those questions were answered affirmatively on the court in this last season. And again, I think with with with everything that happened, you honestly can look at it and go, “Look, that five is still good enough.” But for me, I think with Murray, the the question like I they probably could have and should have won games four and five. You know, I think look, seven, they got blown out. Two, they got blown out. Joic will tell you everything about those games was the same all the way down to the officiating crew. Um I think they were due to lose maybe two of the games like that to the Thunder. I think that was something they just could have overcome if it never got to game seven. And it’s on them that it didn’t to be clear. Um, for me with Murray, the question is, and I would have I should have asked him after game seven. I really thought we’d get exit interviews. That was that was a failure on my part given the narrative about the way the two seasons have ended. Uh, fatigue, injuries, physicality. Is there any consideration to changing your approach to the off seasonason? I think it’s the biggest question actually in the organization right now because I think if Murray comes in in better shape, Joic is doing less Hercules stuff to start the year. Porter isn’t playing through his hamstring strains because Murray’s not available again and so on and so forth down the line. I just the the thing about Murray and being hard on Murray is he has the capability to change this in a way that guy other guys don’t, right? Like you look at Porter and you go there are excuses, there are limitations. We understand this. You look at Gordon this last postseason who was remarkable and then you go all right well you had a great two hamstring game in game seven. You’ll get Joic who’s being guarded by five guys. We personally feel a certain type of way of how he was being guarded. Still, honestly, was really good all things considered. It’s just sort of like what’s 27’s excuse, right? And so, it’s not just be better in the Thunder series. It’s like do everything you can to be available. Do everything you can to be on the floor because that’s sort of what playing for each other means. And I just think a lot of guys have done that in that sense. and it’s kind of his turn to make sure that he’s in absolute peak conditioning so that the regular season can be less of what it looks like in the postseason for these guys. The the reason I’m mentioning Michael, sorry, uh Jamal Murray here, I agree with you guys that that the Nuggets can win again with Jamal and with the same exact starting five as they did in 2023. It’s just that his contract might be the only one that could yield some value in a trade that could give the Nuggets some depth, some serious real depth for next season. No, I’m not talking about, you know, a couple of guys on a minimum uh who are in their their late NBA careers and try to salvage the rotation. Eric, do you think the Nuggets should feel confident about winning four playoff series if Jamal is not expected to excel against OKC Minnesota and and uh and a and a team like the Clippers? Well, I think he did excel against the Clippers. He had 40 point games against them. He scored 20. He had he averaged 21 points against OKC, which is his season average. Um I think like OKC specifically has defenders that are going to limit a guy like Jamal regardless. They have three on ball defenders that are top of the they’re topnotch, right? Like I it’s a really tough thing because it’s sort of a the devil you know versus the devil you don’t. like you could really easily disrupt and destroy um the thing that the Nuggets have built by bringing in a different guy to have that place. I don’t know. I mean like Jamal Joic also played really well with uh Jir Nelson. Like I don’t really think it he has to play with Jamal Murray. I think that it just makes me nervous to like go a different direction, such a such a different direction um with what they’re doing because I do feel like they’re so close. Like I just do feel like they are now in the same place that you know the Boston Celtics are going to find themselves that the Bucks have found themselves. It’s like the ability to repeat is so insanely difficult and I imagine OKC is going to be like the team to beat now. Um, and to me it’s like, okay, what you probably have to do is you just have to you have to get guys like Jeff Green, guys like Bruce Brown, guys that you’re not really thinking about, um, that you don’t even maybe know are available. And those have guys have to be the ones that fill the Hunter Tyson roster spot, that fill the Jaylen Picket roster spot. Like I you can’t really like in this window you don’t have the luxury of trying to develop these guys that if they’re going to turn into anything are going to take three or four years like you need proven guys that can give you know like Aaron Holiday last year was great in the small amount of time that he had. Um and it drove Calvin Booth crazy because he wanted that time to go to these young guy. It’s this it’s this two timeline thing that never ever works. Um, but the Nuggets have guys that are like at least intriguing and they to me it’s like they should be looking to trade some of their young guys to teams that are clearly not going anywhere and are looking to start young and are looking to rebuild. And you know, there’s like guys that have been in the league that are getting like Alani Walker we were all talking about last year. just like guys like that that like I imagine Chris Middleton will probably get like cut or something at some point and we like he’ll become like a ring chaser and it’s like can you get a guy like that that’s not who he once was but can still be really dope. Yeah. Um it’s to like I’m kind of there like I just believe in this five these five guys. I think if you can around the five guys it’s like you can still win. I I just want to say too on Jamal Mirsov, like to to answer the question very very bluntly, are there a handful of second options that at this point in 2025 if you could snap your fingers and turn Jamal into maybe you would? Of course. Right. Of course. Like it’s no longer the I don’t think it’s the chemistry is amazing, right? But if he’s not going to be an all-star and not going to be a playoff riser, like the door is open on all those questions at the very least, right? My point is just I don’t think this is a situation where it’s like the Pacers are going to give you Tyrese Hallebertton for Jamal Murray or the Knicks are going to give you Jaylen Brunson for Jamal, you know. So, I’m not like my standpoint of like what can they do from here? It’s not to absolve everyone of their shortcomings or their sins or like the goal is to win a second one, man. I just don’t if you trade Jamal Murray, are you sure you’re not just kind of starting over again? Like, are you is that not another gap year? So, to me, the the question becomes, is Jamal doing everything he can to get the most out of himself because that will help Joic and the Nuggets get the most out of themselves along with the stuff that Eric’s talking about, the margins that even though the team was so close, they missed so widely on. RJ, would you be more, let’s do a hypothetical, would you be more or less nervous about next season if you’ve heard that the Nuggets have traded Jamal for Jaylen Suggs and Jonathan Isaac from uh I mean look, you got the big guy no matter what. Like you got Nicole Joic. So I think if he’s on the roster, you have a better chance at winning a championship than a lot of the teams in the NBA. I unfortunately feel like uh what Vote is saying is that like that they’re just you would it’s a gap year no matter what if Jamal’s gone because it’s the you know at the end of the next year then I think we’re all talking about like all right well the new guys kind of found their roles just kind of late and then maybe next year they’ll do it. Um and I just I don’t know I and this is what makes this so tricky and what makes like this was makes that this isn’t so tough is because it’s just like what do you want to do? you want to keep trying this to where we know and again the Nuggets championship was not that long ago. It really wasn’t like it it was it like I really think that this team does have another run in it. Look at the the the uh gap years between the Warriors last one and their the one before that one. Like I think they have another run in it. And as much as you do want there to be like kind of like a a a bigger change because you think that this way is just not working. We’ve seen it two years in a row now. I just look at the alternatives and I just I just don’t know if it’s there. Like you could even sell me on the fever dream of trading Luca or getting Luca in a trade from Dallas, but that’s gone now because he’s in LA. He’s there forever. So it’s just I just don’t know where. And that’s the thing is what Brendan is saying and I agree with is it really comes down to okay do these guys who are here do they actually want to keep trying to win championships and when Jamal Murray comes to training camp not in shape that that it seems like that answer is no which it makes us want to like trade him and it’s just it’s a vicious cycle that you get into and I don’t know if there’s any like good answer um he’s got he’s got to break it he’s got to break it and that’s the thing is that like if I If Jamal Murray is the killer he all wants us to think he is and the one he is that he has showed us, you would think that just getting into shape for the next five years would not be that hard to do for him. Um, you know, like we all know Bubble Murray existed and now it just seems like we we thought no, Jamal Murray is back in the championship year, but maybe that was just 2023 Jamal Murray. Maybe it was just two Jamal Murray’s and the one we remember the most is the guy who kind of wasn’t in shape and that reared its ugly head when it really mattered most because he kind of got injured. So, not not saying all the injuries, the ACL was a freak one, but just, you know, just like the calf strain last year. Um, I think he wasn’t completely healthy throughout the entire playoffs this year. He was sick a lot. Um, so I don’t know. I just I just it just seems like I would just want Jamal to focus on being that, you know, that Mamba-esque killer that that he thinks he is. I really like your your point uh on the gap between the last and second to last championship by the Warriors and I’m going to refund that right after these important messages. Okay, we are back. So Argie just mentioned that the Warriors pulled it off and even after several years they managed to get their what was it their fourth championship. I think it was fourth right? Fourth championship. Um but for that to happen the Nuggets had to have injured Jamal Murray and Michael Porter. So this is why the Warriors got the the the landline uh the the you know the easy path to get to that that point and get that amazing series from Jordan P who was never heard of again after that. Brendan, do you think that’s our fate? like let’s just keep it together and wait for better teams there than our tomble under injuries and hope to get back into the championships. There’s a very pessimistic way of putting it. I will say there is something to it. Like there is something to it, right? Especially in this day and age. Yes. The with the era of parody comes the era of perennial contention like contending, right? Like for more than one team, right? So, like for four years at a time, you go, “Yeah, Cleveland, Golden State, whatever.” Right now, I think there are five to six to seven teams in the league that can go, we should at least try, right? Like, we’re at least close if things break right. And again, that’s another if, right? I just I again, look, so is the trade would be my point. If there’s a slam dunk scenario on board that, yeah, that makes the Nuggets better right now and you have to move on from the core, I’m in. I just don’t know that that exists. So, yeah, man. They were so close against OKC and it was Mike that had the shoulder sprain and Aaron that had the the the the hamstring strain and we have to reflect carefully on whether or not that’s a coincidence what Denver is doing to mitigate that. That is a very important conversation but just humor me for a second and I wouldn’t want it to be this way. What if one of the Thunder’s many important players had a strain and is that enough? And so like again, no, I don’t think that’s awesome. Plan A, go to war. Like, well, I hope someone else get hurt. But there is something to like look at the Knicks, right? The Knicks were kind of in contention. They traded way too many picks to for the guy they thought was right. Maybe this is an argument for making a trade. By the way, I digress. And but they were like, look, we’re close and maybe it doesn’t happen for Boston and maybe it doesn’t. And granted, it’s a tough time to bring up the Knicks. rough start in the ECF, but they’re there, right? You see my point? And and so again, like being close can be enough. Um you just don’t want to rest on those laurels. That’s that’s the thing. You don’t want to just go like, well, it’s close enough and if things break right, it’s what are you doing to ensure that things break right? Just needs to sort of be the organizational, I think, mantra right now. What do you think, Eric? You you are usually uh uh super positive and optimistic about life and and how great everything around us is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s I would say the people who around me describe me as a beam of sunshine at all times. So how how do you view my plan of just it’s not my plan but it’s it’s it appears to me that that’s maybe Josh Krony’s plan. Let’s just keep everything together, do some little moves on the margins and hope that things break uh our way next time around. Well, I would say there is some wisdom in that because you have Nikolic, so just by default, you’re going to be in contention every single year. If you’re talking about like trying to blow the team up and rebuild it after two depressed seasons, you’re now saying that the value, the trade value is at its lowest. So, this is going to be the law of diminishing returns if you’re just trying to improve by just moving people around. Um, I just kind of feel like in general the Nuggets have to make sure that it’s not on two guys. Like it needs to be like it really just needs to be on all five if not six, if not seven guys. Like it can’t come down to just being like whether or not one of the players gets hurt or whether or not Jamal Murray is scoring 26 points or 21 points in a series. Like that’s generally the the variance you get with him. It’s like you just know like you’re going to get 20 points a series out of Jamal Murray. That’s it. Like that’s you can’t expect him to turn into but you’re also going to get spec spectacular performances sprinkled in there depending upon the circumstances. It’s just like you got to like uh like do we trust Michael Porter Jr’s health is my major question. It’s like that guy has enough to make it happen. Can we trust his body? Dude, you can’t trust his body. You simply can’t. That’s what I mean. And it’s like, so what do you do from that point? It’s like, how do you how do you rep how do you replace that production that you need you sorely need to get over the top? um without like just making trades that that make the team worse and you just slowly like because the the main disagreement like I I was on board with Calvin Views Calvin Booth’s view of like okay we not only have to win now we have to build something so that we’re going to be contending for the future. We’re just going to be there the whole time. But now I’m like you just you just have to win in Joic’s career. Like you can’t think about anything beyond that. You have to do everything you can to get guys in, move it around. Like you you just can’t be thinking about long term like, “Okay, this gu is going to be good for us in five years.” And he’s our succession plan to Jamal Murray. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you got to use picks to get guys that can help you right now. You got to use these young players to get guys that can help you right now. Like, you cannot have a long-term view. You can’t do it with Nicole Kid. You’re like, the Nuggets once he leaves, it’s like they’re they’re it’s over anyway. It’s like you might as well start off from absolute zero because you exhausted every resource you have to make it happen each and every year that you have. You’re blessed to have this man. I mean, if I consider what I’ve been talking about with some Nuggets fans, long lasting Nuggets fans, many of them would say, “Hey, you can move the team from Denver for a couple of years after Nicola leaves.” Like, nobody would would say anything against that. Like, you you just come back when you have another great guy for us to cheer for. Argie, I I want to to get now in a in a more positive uh uh spin. Bruce Brown. Uh so I saw him I think it was game two against the Clippers. I we were standing together in front of the restroom like he he looked like he was having a life of uh time of his life. And I mean it makes sense. He just earned $45 million in the past two seasons. So that that might have something to do do with it. But what does your spider sense tell you? Do do you think he he is really that that into coming back? Uh I think he is. I don’t think he’s sick on on a cheap deal. Yeah. I don’t I mean if the money’s right, sure. And I think um I think he I think the goal after the ring was to get paid. And now that he got that, maybe it is to go get another ring. I don’t know. That’d be kind of cool. I think it’s too perfect of a situation. I think the fans want it too bad. I just think it’s just not it’s just not going to happen because it’s just like it it’s it it happened. It it the universe is not going to allow it to happen again. It would be awesome. I think he would come back and I think he would kind of fill the role. I’m not saying he would even perform at the same rate he did that year, but if he could just get the crowd going the way that they sort of did when Russ came in, like let’s not forget like Ball Arena really did like Russell Westbrook there for for a while. Um, and they he brought a lot of energy and it was just like we’ve been talking about all year giveth and taketh. But um, yeah, Bruce Brown would be great. Uh, I think again I don’t think you you you sit courtside at a game and hang out in the locker room afterwards and not at least entertain the idea. I know he likes it in Denver. It fits his cowboy lifestyle. It would be awesome. I just think it’s just too It’s I just think it’s He was wearing a hat when I saw him. It’s exactly from Boston. He’s not I’m not I’m not saying I’m not saying it wasn’t an adopted cowboy lifestyle. Okay. Um, I’m just saying I think I think he he really felt what his presence was here in Denver. I think the fans loved him and I don’t think anyone blamed him for doing what he did. I just think he did that circuit and now he’s like, “Oh yeah, it was really fun to kind of be the sixth man for this for these guys. It really was.” So again, every fiber of my being hopes that they at least entertain the idea. I am just not going to get myself into the mindset that he’s here next year. So Brendan, you’ve seen both guys live so many times. Is Bruce Brown an upgrade on on Russell Westbrook or is he like a higher floor, lower ceiling kind of version of Russell Westbrook? Um, it’s a great question. It’s a great question. I think Rof is probably a better playoff player with the Nuggets right now, or at least he certainly was in 2023. Um, understatement of the year. Russ was really good in round one. He was They won round one because of Russ, dude. But he was also probably literally the worst player in the second round. I think maybe the swings would probably just be less drastic with Bruce. Even though he’s an energy and a spark guy, so that sounds almost counterintuitive, but Russ said it himself, right, about what it’s like to watch him play. I said it all year. Keep your keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times. buckled until it’s over, you know. Um it so it was his quote. It could be a mate three, could be a miss three, could be steal, could be a turnover. I think with Bruce, it’s maybe a little more contained all of that. [Music] Um I’m with RG though. This sort of feels like this ship has kind of sailed. Like it’s a very fun roleplayer logging for a return. almost fanfiction kind of thing going on here. But ultimately, I I’m not gonna like fan this flame. I’m not gonna, you know, I’m not gonna fan this flame until I hear that something’s really happening because I just think it’s like the easiest thing in the world to say right now, like, oh, Bruce back to Denver. Yeah. Dylan, would you offer Brucey to be his best friend if he comes back? What do you mean offer? Like, you mean rekindle our friendship? Of course. Of course. You can stay He can stay at my house. I live, listen, I live by myself. I don’t know when I’m gonna be uh with Christina. So, I mean, groomies, I don’t know. We’ll see. It’s fine. No problem. No, listen. I I cannot imagine it happening and I can’t imagine anything I want more than Although funny thing is is like Bruce Brown like kind of sucked during the season. It’s the most hilarious thing. Like it’s crazy how things change in depending upon how it ends. like he’s the biggest hero in the world and during the season we were like I don’t know what this guy does like I don’t know is he is he a point guard what is this guy you know that month Dline where where Murray was hurt and Russ started and Russ was like like it’s the reason the Nuggets made the playoffs right totally I don’t think Bruce could do that no but I think it also might be a safer bet in some high leverage situations of like we know what the order of operations is and when someone has the ball out here well that’s just it like you could have brought him in to mitigate a lot of what was happening to Murray in versus OKC. Like he could have played a guard position. He could have played the two. They he could have been rough and tumble and like put hard uh screens on Kase and Wallace and like you know not allowed all of the um I don’t know just it just been a little bit of a buffer for for Jamal Murray. But it is such a weird like just thinking back what a strange fit Bruce Brown actually was on this team and how beautifully it worked out in the playoffs and how um but yeah of course you bring like you do at this point if you’re Denver and you’re the management of Denver and you’re kind of just like man we have the most precious asset in sports and we have to like resell this team and Jokic somehow to the city of Denver. like you just make some big because we just got rid of our coach that everybody liked and we got rid of the GM and obviously from the outside looking in or even from the inside looking in it’s like what is going on here? Like this is chaos. This is crazy. Um you make a big splashy move like that with a name people remember like everyone’s right back on board. We’re just like let’s go Bruce. I would be I’m not going to lie. I would I would be back. Of course. Of course. Okay. We have a couple of super chats to to read off. First, Austin Lee, uh, playing GM. Thoughts on MPJ 35 million trade to New Orleans Pelicans for Herb Jones and Bruce Brown? Herb is 3 and D and Bruce Bruce improves our bench. Well, Bruce is a is a free agent. So, I mean, theoretically, it it could be like a signing trade kind of deal for him here. It’s just that we’re not getting Herb Jones for Michael Porter. Yeah, dude. here like like don’t don’t don’t try to trade away Michael Porter this summer because you’re not getting anything but bad contracts. Yeah. Yeah. Back would be sick. Herb Jones would be pretty That deal would be sick. Yeah, that’s a great deal. That’s never going to happen. Uh Gazi Benghazi, time to pull a low ball trade. Ship out MPJ and Murray for some re some reliable ballers who bring it every night again. Maybe maybe Jamal can bring you something back. And I’ll tell you what, like um here’s something to consider. Like I would say that like who is the second best player or the second who is the best number two in the OKC series? Jaylen Williams. You think Jay Williams is better? I think it’s Caruso for sure. Oh, maybe he’s their sixth. I know. I that’s that is Bruce Brown. That would be the they have they have a superstar and then they have like one star who is somehow the the allNBA guy and then they have like 10 high quality guys. But here’s my point is that like I believe it could be debated they’re at least equal but I believe Jamal Murray was way better. I I was so unimpressed by Jaylen Williams in that series again that we just had against them. He had one good g he showed up in game seven, but overall like I thought he looked scared. I thought he looked weak. Like yeah, he had two good games. Like the two the games where it was rolling. Like he was eager to jump on because he’s a like to me that’s a front runner player. Like um point being like with a guy that is that volatile like OKC is still going to roll through their playoffs rough shot. Um and it’s because of like what you’re saying, they have Alex Caruso that comes in or like they’re three, they’re four. It’s just I I just I don’t know to me that we still have the structure in place, but we got to get Yeah, we got Can we get Alex Caruso talk about that? Okay, guys. I’m going to deconstruct the nuggets starting next week. Uh but before I I I start doing that, uh just give me some closure on this season before I make a mess out of it. RG, what are your closing thoughts on the season? Uh, my closing thoughts are just forget about the regular season. If you focus on the postseason, it was so fun. It was a It was such a fun ride. Like, we can all agree that the Nuggets died three games before the uh regular season ended. And this whatever we saw was just basically fun. Like, they sure we were pregnant manned. Um, so it was just I I I will look back on this as uh because I will repress most of the regular season and remember this as the dog fight nuggets where they just really they everyone said they were dead. Every one of them had one arm, one of them had one hamstring and they were like, “No, you need to kill us before we’re actually dead. We’re not just going to roll over.” And I think that’s probably what I’m going to think of the Nuggets. And again, I think that’s why you should still have faith even if it is a very similar team next year. B, the reporting you heard about the team falling apart was real. Uh, the reporting you heard about the team coming back together was real. I even though I have bones to pick with each of them individually, right? Because this is I think the five of those guys largely acquitted themselves in the mental toughness. Do you want to do this? Do you want to be here category? I think as you watch the way the playoffs have gone out, it’s got, you know, people say the homers are lying to themselves about what this team is capable of. I kind of think you have to lie to yourself about what they’re not capable of with how the playoffs have gone out. So, yeah, I believe in those five. I think those five still want to play together. Can they and subsequently the organization do everything possible to give themselves a fair shot and give Jokic the shot he deserves? Cuz after this, there’s no runway for ifs or ws or buts. It’s this just has to be a year that it happens. I think it can. They got to get all the little things right. E closing thoughts without ifs and buts. Yeah. Scream. I’ll make my own state the way I see fit. Um, I am left with very conflicted thoughts about this Denver Nuggets team because yes, like we all know what the problems were and I also saw a championship caliber squad that just found um that just ran into they just ran out of whatever it was. They, you know, luck, gas, whatever. Um, it’s frustrating, but I do feel like this is going to be another year for me where I look back and feel like it was one that got away. Um, yeah, because there were just a lot of really good things through all of the nonsense. I think we do live in rings culture now, sadly, and it’s going to be increasingly difficult for us to appreciate the small things in the regular season. Um, and I’m left I mean I just you know I just feel like we are now at that crossroads where are we going to be a wayward also ran close to not quite squad or are we going to be really seriously contending every single year with Nico Joic as it seems like you should and I kind of think we’re going to be the that the the the latter. I kind of think that there’s it’s not that difficult to rebuild a team to put around Jokic. I’d love to see who the GM is. I’ll tell you that much. I’d love to understand even the the start of what the philosophy Ben Tenzer I know. But can like Ben brings in two guys and we’re like, “All right, let’s go. We got we’re gonna we’re gonna ride with Julian Straw. They’re getting better next year. We’re gonna ride with um Pwatt and obviously Christian and then we’re bringing in Bruce Brown and we’re also bringing in I don’t know like Yabusle or something like we somehow pulled that off and I don’t wish I’m just saying like I don’t know dude like thing like that Yaboo obviously that’s a bit much but he was in Europe last year like can we get a you know like can we get can we get uh who was that guy Carly Jones, can we absolutely killed it and we ironically had and didn’t do anything with there’s guys out there, man. They if I just hope we have a guy that comes in that has a little bit of vision that can find those guys that are in bad situations and can bring them to the Nuggets with the the the promise that they’re going to have a fun and meaningful season with a real shot at a championship. I’m still it. Let’s go. Okay, Rafael Zuk, please give us give us a guy from Europe. We we know you can do it. You you’ve done it before. you’re going to do it again. Okay guys, that is all I prepared for you this week, my dear listener. And please, with the cherry on top, take the word prepared very loosely. Be well, be safe, be kind to everybody. Call your mom. And until next week, from the guy who is hosting this show as the only guy without a baseball cat indoor cap indoor, I’ll set you free into the void before the next show with a new greeting. If you come to Serbia and see a Coca-Cola plastic bottle with a Pepsi bottle cap, shouts to which means that’s Graia inside. So until next week, Toyraia.

The Nuggets’ season ended in game 7 against what looks like the biggest favorite to win it all: the OKC Thunder.
Miroslav is joined by Brendan Vogt and Ryan Green, the DNVR Nuggets’ playoff coverage duo. Brendan and RG discuss their first-person experiences from 14 playoff games this season. Other topics include:

• How did the Nuggets get to Game 7 versus OKC?
• Playoff grades
• Internal improvement vs roster change

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