Detailing Kings needs heading into an extremely important offseason

Detailing Kings needs heading into an extremely important offseason

Welcome to the Kings Beat podcast. I’m James Ham Kings and for ESPN 1320 and the Kings Beat. We are of course a Blue Wire podcast brought to you by Underdog Fantasy Sports. I am joined tonight by KC3s, Sean Cunningham. Sean, how are you? I’m doing great. I have a little senioritis because I know uh we talked about it the last podcast, but Bottle Rock, man, it it I’m I’m days away. I’m mere days away. Starts on Friday. I am in checkout mode now. So, you don’t know what you’re getting from me tonight. I know. I know. Sorry. Sorry. Not sorry. Sorry. Not sorry. Just got one more day left before I hit the uh little vacay button, but I hope everyone can re can understand that. Yeah. All right. We also have Brendan Nudes from the Kingsps podcast and Other Things. Uh Brendan, how are you? I’m doing well. Nothing too crazy. Um Sean mentioned senioritis. I got a couple siblings graduating from high school this cycle. So looking forward to that. That means uh yeah, this weekend and then I think the weekend after I’m going to be in SoCal. Maybe I’m a week off on that. Something like that. Um so yeah, I’ll be moving around a little bit, but nothing crazy. Enjoying the plan. You dropped out or did you gra I’m sorry. Wow. Wow. I was asking I couldn’t remember. Wow. Of high school. Of high school. Yeah. Or I graduated. Jesus Christ. I graduated high. Sorry, that sounded awful. I didn’t mean it that way. I never even learned how to read. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. That’s how we’re starting. Sean, what’s that reference? Oh, that’s Zoolander. How do you expect the building? No, I never even learned how to read. No, that’s Wayne’s world when he’s making Well, you were saying it like Zoolander, though. You said it like Zoolander. What is this a graduate high school, Sean? I did. Yes. El Grove. Wow. Wow. Grove High. Go herd. Where did Brennan, what is your high school? What high school did you go to? There’s a couple actually. Um, same. Three different. So, I Yeah, Summit in San Jose. I went to Camaro in SoCal where Haimey Hakas went. And then I did my last half year uh homeschooled. Actually, that’s what it was. Homeschool. Now, you can understand why I No, I did. I didn’t. Listen, just move back and forth and families. All right, hold on. Homeschool is like the neighbor of dropout, right? No, neighbor. Get your degree. Continuation school is the is the neighbor of That’s not what was dropping on. I just moved. It was Yeah. moving in the middle of the year. I You can understand why I would have messed that up. That’s not You’re You’re an [ __ ] but it’s fine. I’m sorry. You graduated, right, Sean? Well, that’s I knew there was something. I couldn’t remember what it was. Here, we’ll just get it back right now. Sean, where did you go to college? Uh, University of Elrove. Yeah, I was like LeBron. I went straight out of high school, right? Right into my stuff. So, I’m uh Yeah. Um Yeah. I I went to Nevada Union High School in in Grass Valley. And um unlike both of you guys um I actually my dad went to I believe it was 13 schools um when he was growing up. He was a farm kid in the central valley Modestock Turlock all that stuff. And they moved all the time and when me and my brother were little my dad decided he said I’m never moving them. They’re going to go to the same school from start to finish. So I went to I was born at Sutter Memorial in Grass in uh Nevada uh in Sacramento, but I moved to Grass Valley when I was one and I went to Bill Hill, I went to Hennessy, I went to Lyman Gilmore, and I went to Nevada Union, uh which are all the primary schools in Grass Valley. Named Hennessy. That’s awesome. Hennessy. Yeah. Elementary, huh? Yeah. And then of course I went to UC Davis. I went to Sierra College as well. Me and Brandon Aayuk was Sierra College. I had some uh Cassumnus River College but realized racket and went into went into like LeBron went out of high straight into straight league. Here we are podcasting the my wife kept going to and went through law school and so yeah she did well. She doesn’t have to podcast. She does not have to podcast. Uh, welcome in everybody uh to the Kingspeed podcast. Uh, we of course squandered the last four minutes and 47 seconds of your life talking about absolutely nothing. Uh, what do we got for podcast candles? What do we got? I’m on the same same one. Same. I mean, I literally have my podcast candle. So, this is my candle one. The warm and welcome. I think it’s honestly I think I’m exclusively just burning it during podcast right now. Is it that it’s burning pretty slow? It’s got three of them, too. I mean, it’s a big one. It’s not your ratick thing going on. Yeah. Triple wick. Triple wick. Cold and prickly. That’s what we call it because of Chance. How dare you? How dare you? Um, I don’t know about you guys, uh, but I just watched one of the funnest basketball games that I watched in a long time. Um, game. I I um they kept asking me today on the air like, “Who do you got tonight?” And I’m like, I think it’s a coin flip. Like this entire series, I think it’s a coin flip. And sure enough, tonight was just flat out a coin flip. That was a crazy game. Um Tyrese Hallebertton, of course, with one of the most incredible shots that we’ve seen in a long time. U so if you missed it, uh go find the the footage of what happened. I guess Indiana was up 13 with like a minute and a half left. I mean, New York was up 13 and Indiana came back. They tied it on one of the again, Hallebertton throws up what looked like a three initially to win the game. It hits the back of the rim. Skies up in the air like 10 feet and then goes right back through the middle of the of the rim. Um, on review, it was it was a two-point shot, not a three. U, but my goodness, uh, I think that series is going to be tremendous from start to finish. And I think that’s what we saw tonight. Just what are your guys initial thoughts on on that series? I mean, the Pacers are a miracle team this postseason. It seems like they keep having these insane late game comebacks um down nearly 10 digits and the last minute 2 minutes and they managed to find a way. And Tyrese has his big shots late, but it’s a little bit of everybody. You know, it’s Andrew Nemharb hitting a big three, but Aaron Nesmith had 20 points in the third quarter. He ends the night with 30. He went eight of nine from three. Um that’s a guy that really, you know, came into himself these last couple years in Indiana and then has that sort of night. Um Pascal being right there. I mean, it’s an extremely well-rounded team um that you’re going to get from everywhere. What did I miss? You saying something that was borderline inappropriate. Oh, was it? Okay, you’re fine. You’re going to get it from everywhere. Kind of impressive, but go ahead. I don’t think it was that. I I think you said he No, it’s okay. Let’s move on. We’ll move on. It’s fine. Um Sean, thoughts on the game? Yeah. Oh. Uh, yeah. I I hope I hope tonight was every bit of And in total transparency, I only saw the fourth and uh o overtime uh because of uh other assignments, but um I hope that is a is indicative of what’s to come in this series. I think we all expected a knockdown dragout physical type of series and I kind of hope it goes seven. Um, this might be, in my in my estimation, I think this might be the the best playoff matchup of the entire postseason. I think it has that type of potential. And, um, I can’t wait. And, you know, I’m not a wrestling guy, but I absolutely love the Jaylen Brunson and Tyrese Hallebertton rekindling that up from what happened earlier last year uh, at a wrestling match. And you know to see the camera pan where he’s looking at Jaylen Brunson arms folded is is hysterical. Um and even just to see a little bit of theatrics tonight. I mean Reggie Miller’s on the call. You got Tyresese Hallebertton busting out the choke sign. Um kind of bold kind of also felt a little forced but uh absolutely I I applaud it especially given the result and um what a statement made in that and you know got a little bit of a big toe on the line. I know Kings fans can relate to that after seeing Demar De Rozan shoot a lot of three-pointers that had to become two-pointers and um certainly, you know, we’ve seen Francisco Garcia do it and obviously KD do it in a uh and on a bigger stage. So um that kind of bit them tonight, but what theater that was. It was incredible. Yeah, I think Mitch Richmond is the original toe on the line guy. Um, yeah. So, uh, yeah, just tremendous basketball and like look, I think it’s two contrasting styles. You have one of the deeper teams left in in the, you know, the NBA playoffs in the Indiana Pacers versus one of the most talented starting fives that we’ve seen um, in the New York Knicks. I think that that is, again, it’s just such a contrast in style. It’s a super crazy offensive team versus a uh, a group of really great individual defenders. Um, but uh, yeah, I I think we’re gonna that that series is gonna I think it’s gonna go six or seven. I I would be surprised if it did not. And uh, yeah, Indiana looks like they’re legit. And I think the the cool thing about Indiana is they’ve had to prove it. It feels like every step of the way. Like no one believed that they were a legitimate Eastern Conference Finals team last year because every team they played lost a major player, lost a major piece like during their run. and it just kind of took away a little of the luster. It sort of feel like they’re trying to prove that they belong and and that’s that’s cool to see. Um unfortunately there is a little bit of that this season as well. Like there’s Dame going down for Milwaukee. There’s the Garland um Moy and DeAndre Hunter injuries with Cleveland. But I mean you still you got to play who’s in front of you. I feel like you can’t really knock them. Um you got to I guess put it all in context, but you got to play who’s in front of you, you know. And now, you know, Trey Young may be a little less hated in New York because all the all of it’s going to get pointing towards Tyrese. Yeah. He didn’t help matters, by the way. Trey Young’s still trolling uh you know, Knicks fans by complimenting I forget what it was, but uh oh, it was OKC saying that the that Oklahoma City was was louder than New York uh in that playoff game. He might be right, but he couldn’t help himself. Just had to stir it up to be that guy. I kind of like it. Yeah, I I do too. Like, uh, we’re deep in the playoffs here. Like, I think these guys should be having a good time. And, you know, I Charles Barkley went on a rant tonight after the game. I don’t know if you guys saw it. Um, I I should have downloaded it so we could have played it. Um, but he told just like looked at the camera, the TNT camera, and said, “Hey, look, Adam Silver, uh, let John Hallebertton back in the game. Like, he’s he’s already paid enough. Let’s let’s let him back in.” and he actually said he’s he’s never going to do something so stupid ever again. Just let him back in, you know, for game three and four in Indiana. Um I I let him in New York and and like have him back on the side. Well, back in the stands um after his incident with Giannis and in what the first round, right? Um so I I don’t know. I I think we met John. Uh he’s a good dude. uh lost his mind a little bit and uh on occasion that happens and you know you can’t fault a guy for being super proud of his kid. Uh and what do you think he would have done tonight? Go stomp on the Knicks logo. Oh yeah. Well behaved, you know, learned a lesson and yeah, I mean it’s a ridiculous moment for his son. I think he’d appreciate being there. I will say this. I mean just being a total uh contrarian here but just objective. I mean, if that were any three of us or any of these people in the chat listening to us or, you know, listening to us on the podcast stream, you wouldn’t be back in an NBA venue at all, let alone that very arena. So, I realize it. He’s a family member, but when it comes to second chances, there’s there’s pretty hard and fast rules. So, while yes, I think a lesson can be made of Mr. Hallebertton and and the situation. Just just saying if it was any of us or anybody listening to this, we would not get the retribute. We would not get that that second chance. Definitely fair. Yeah. I mean, again, and by the way, and nobody would sit there and say, “Give that guy a second chance.” They’d be like, “Ban his ass forever.” But there is the re It is his dad, like you said. No, there is context. I’m I Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he didn’t punch anybody, but uh I I you know, he didn’t do anything like it was over the top for sure and disrespectful for sure, but I I don’t think he did anything that was like so bad that you you can’t let him back in the building. So, oh, big recording. That’s a big Yeah. Sorry, big yawn. It’s been a long couple of days here. Um, what do you think about the uh the other series, the the OKC Minnesota series? Because, um, you know, I’ve gone on record saying I don’t think that series is going to last very long. Um, I said that before OKC won the first game. Um, but I just kind of want to get a feel for where you guys are at with that. I tend to think the same. I was really impressed with Ant’s first half yesterday, though. I mean, I think that you can’t question just the level of competit competitiveness that he has and willingness to or ability to keep his team in games. Julius Randle’s changed my perspective on him as a player a lot throughout this postseason. Um, so I think they’ll fight, but OKC’s defense when they really ratcheted up a level like that’s on another level. Alex Guso fighting through screens is ridiculous. Um, you have a bunch of bunch of ridiculous defenders on that team and like you mentioned depth with the Pacers. OKC might be up there too with how much depth they have on their roster as well. Um, so I kind of think that the title is OKC’s to lose at this point, but you know, these other teams made it here for a reason and they’ll put up a little bit of a fight, but that defense is is something else in my mind. Yeah, the the Denver game seven of the Denver series was like that was so next level, you know, on Yic. Yeah, but watching that team like just figure it out and go from like a a really really good regular season team to an incredible playoff team like in the with the snap of a finger. I just thought it was it was wild to watch. Like when when I watched OKC take that the game seven uh and the defense they played in that. I don’t think that there’s another team in the league that has any chance to beat them if that’s a team that shows up on a nightly basis. And and not only that, but they’re so young, you know? They got like Kenri Williams is 30 and Caruso is 31 and nobody else is is older than 26. Like that team is just built for to to succeed to succeed long term. Sorry Sean, did I cut you off there? No, no, you’re good. I I’m my whole thing. I was actually surprised Denver forced a game seven. That’s that’s how little uh I respected them in this series. And I know they got the best player on the planet and Joic over there. I get it. Um I just felt from a matchup standpoint that OKC would have a much easier time than what than what they did with Denver. And I also felt what Denver went through in their previous series was going to take a little bit of a toll. Um but kudos to them. OKC went I think they needed that because I think so much of what the Thunder have faced in the playoffs in the um has been a little too easy. So to see them sweat a little was was I think good for their even their growth and I think it it helps them in this matchup. I mean look Minnesota this group they they know what a Western Conference Finals looks like. Um I’m I’m here I I I’m absolutely looking forward to it. I hope that it gives the the the type of um matchup that I’m expecting with the Pacers and the and the T and the uh the Knicks, but I’m not expecting nearly the same result. I actually think it’ll be a little bit lopsided, but but hopefully hopefully I’m wrong there. Yeah. Um yeah, I you know, I I don’t know how it’s all going to play out. Like I gave um coming into the like the the final four here, I think OKC’s got like a 50% chance of winning the title. I think the the Knicks I put at like 25. I put uh Indiana at 15 and Minnesota at 10%. And um you know, maybe I’m wrong there with percentages. Percentages, but but I I definitely think that um that OKC is just they’re just deeper than any other team. And I I think the the most fun series is not the series that I think the NBA wants. I think the NBA at this point they would love like a a Knicks um even I think they’d be fine with Knicks OKC, but I think that the best series would probably be Knicks Pacers. I mean a Pacers Pacers OKC. I just again two contrasting styles. Um, and a really great offensive team against a great defensive team and and again, two teams that are extremely deep, you know. So, and I I know that they’re both down 01 right now, but there’s plenty to be played. And Knicks T-Wolves would have some crazy storylines to it, too. I mean, it’s insane that both these teams are in the spots that they’re at back in the conference finals after making it last year. And then they go and trade some of their top players in a swap and they’re both here. Yeah. Um I think I think the best finals matchup would be I think it would be Knicks Thunder. I mean, they’re both very very gritty gritty teams. And I mean, maybe we’ll see what happens with the Knicks in this series going up against a really firepower offensive team like the Pacers. But I feel like from a viewer standpoint, the best matchup for television would be Knicks Thunder. Sean, has has Cat changed uh your opinions on him at all this year? No. No. I mean, dude is extremely extremely talented. I’ve always said that. I’m not a I’m not a Carly Founds fan, but um I think they could have done the same similar type of things with Julius Randall. Uh I like what Julius Randle being able to thrive with with Minnesota right now. So, it’s not like he, you know, that trade. It’s not like he kind of, you know, waned away and just became an average type player. like no, he’s having an absolutely stellar postseason seeing him and Anthony Edwards together and dude’s all about winning. Uh very very physical player and uh it’s interesting they they both do some different things and and it’s it it seems like such more of a complimentary piece than what Cat was to the Timberwolves. And by virtue of Julius Randle really being hurt that final year for the most part, um, Towns stepping in there and being kind of a go-to guy to pair well with Brunson and so much of their defensive, you know, makeup is really fit them well. So, uh, good good for both those teams and yeah, it would be kind of cool. Put my my wish list aside. Yeah, that story line would be incredible for an NBA Finals. No, I I agree. I I that’s probably the one that NBA wants the most. Um, but again, I just don’t know that Minnesota can hang. Um, you know, we’ll have to wait and see how it plays out. Let’s just a couple of housekeeping things. Uh, number one, thanks for joining the King Speed podcast tonight. We are of course live. Um, if you’re listening to this after the fact, uh, sorry you missed the live show. Um, we did tweet it out and we don’t usually like schedule these things. It just happens organically when we all can get together. Um, if you don’t mind, uh, give us a thumbs up. Uh, subscribe to the channel here at the Kingsbeat. Uh, go to the kingsbeat.com, become a subscriber to the Kings Beat and do all that stuff. Uh, and then also when you’re in the chat and you’re hanging out here, um, don’t say crazy, stupid, offensive things and I won’t have to ban you. Um, you can you can say a lot of things in the chat and we’ll laugh and or we’ll ignore, but let’s not get weird and start talking about the owner of the Sacramento Kings in a racial type of way. Um, oh, really? I missed that. I missed that comment. I didn’t see that one. So, um, let’s just say like somebody has been put on timeout. Uh, if they they get to, uh, I think timeout lasts for 5 minutes. if you want to come back in and be part of the conversation, that’s fine. Um, but I also have another button that’s hiding right next to the timeout button that’s a ban button and I have no problems using it. Just like I have no problems problems blocking people on Twitter. So, did that person get a ban or did that person It definitely says banned. Oh, that they’re they’re temporarily banned and their comments have been removed, but they will be allowed back in after a certain amount of time, I believe, tonight. So, um, just don’t say stuff like that. Like, don’t be a dick. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Just that’s that’s just too weird. Um, actually, I was fine when anything came my way with somebody stuff he was saying. I mean, the playoff my name. Yeah, that was a crazy nickname, but uh I’ve been called worse. And yeah, you don’t have to agree with me. That’s all good. I’m I got a thick skin. I’m here for it. I don’t think like disagreeing with Sean or James or Brendan or or myself. Uh whether it’s on the air or whether it’s here on the Kings Beat podcast. Like look, that’s fine. Just don’t be offensive and don’t be an a-hole. Uh no, he’s back. He asked me a question, Sean. Why shouldn’t the Kings tank? Uh the Kings the Kings should not tank because a couple reasons. One, I don’t think they’re built properly to tank. Uh, I think too much would have to happen to totally give it give it hit the reset button. I don’t think that they’ve done enough things to be able to do that yet. I I do think, you know, should they hit 2027 and go in that different direction at that point, then maybe. Um, but when you traded for somebody like Zack Lavine, that’s a that’s a hard one to I mean, it’s a hard he’s a hard piece to move anyway given his contract. I don’t see you trading for Zack Lavine and then being able to tank. Um, plus I think it sends the wrong message to what’s currently here. This team can absolutely go on and be a competitive team, especially with some of the pieces that they have with um, you know, they they have a lot of movable pieces. I mean, maybe you have to come off the love of some of these pieces, but you do have movable pieces. You could very easily turn things around. Uh, I would agree that I don’t like the roster. I think the roster is bad, but I just don’t think that they’re properly built to tank. I think that that decision would have to have been made a little while back and I just don’t and plus the biggest thing is I don’t think that this fan base, the ones that are the paying customer would stomach it. I really don’t. I’m going to take it another step further and the reason why I I I just kind of dismiss the idea of of just blowing the thing up and tanking is because they’re not going to like that, right? It doesn’t matter whether we have an opinion of whether they should or shouldn’t. It doesn’t really matter because I like to live in a world where we talk about reality. And the real reality is they’re not going to tank. They’re not going to throw this. They’re they’re not going to start over. They’ve raised their ticket prices so high that they would have to do like 20 30% ticket reductions in order to survive a tank. And you know, it’s it’s nice and all that the A’s have moved to Sacramento for at least three seasons, but that’s also gonna steal if you decide to just blow this thing up, that’s going to steal some of your money and some of your corporate money. And so I just I I live in a world where I I understand that the owner of this team does not want to to start over and and go back to uh ground zero. And that’s because it’s his right to do that. Um, and whether we agree with it or not, I’m on the same page as Sean. Does anyone understand how difficult it would be to trade Zack Lavine or how difficult it like you’re going to have to take back to to trade a $42 million Demon Sabonis. And I think you can get value for Sabonis, but you’re not getting an all-star back. You’re not getting a guy who leads the league in rebounding and averages six assists and 19 points per game. So, I’ve heard that you can get a guy that leads the league in assists for no loss, though. Oh, apparently. Um, yeah, allegedly. That’s a word on the street. Yeah, I think it may have happened in the past. Not quite sure, though. I Yeah, and that guy’s You can send it one way. I don’t think you can send it back. No, no, don’t think so. Well, and my mind instantly went, just so you know, it went to Trey Young because uh he led the league in assists this year, not Tyrese Hallebertton. Sorry. Go ahead. I was looking at playoff numbers earlier and I got mixed up. Um that’s okay. That’s okay. Yeah, I I think it’s hard to see a world where they go in that direction. If you were going to, you probably do it when you move on from De’arra and Fox. And that probably means that you don’t trade Fox in the middle of the season. You wait till the off season and try and get the best offer there. Like ideally, if you are going in the tanking direction, you try to fasttrack it a little with what your current pieces are and what you can get from those in deals. And to your guys’s point, I don’t know that that exists that much on this current roster. The one part I am a little curious about though, um, when you guys mentioned like fans would get disengaged, is there ever a point where they do the same just because the team is in constant mediocrity or are we already has that already been disproven with the 16 years? No, it got to a point where fans had lost interest. Yeah, I I mean it’s tough because I’ll kind of like rewind the clock here for a minute. The Kings in uh let’s see the 9495 season. They missed the playoffs on the last game of the season. They lost to the Denver Nuggets. The Denver Nuggets went to the playoffs. The Kings did not. The next season they finished with the exact same record, which is what 39 and 43, something like that. and uh they they made the playoffs and there were this incredible, you know, series against the Seattle SuperSonics and all that stuff. So, like super super cool. Everybody was super excited in Sacramento. Um the next season they started to fall apart and the year after that is the first time that there wasn’t 100% sellout in Sacramento. And it’s I think winning is a blessing, right? We all love what winning looks like, but losing afterwards is usually really, really tough to stomach. And I feel like fans are right now in that same exact place where they got a taste of the good life for one season and then the next season it was it was close and you thought you were a move or two away from being back in it and then year three you’re like, “Oh no, this is a nightmare.” and that I think midway through this season if they’re still playing like they did at the end of last season that building is going to empty out like I don’t know empty out completely but I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re looking at 13 14,000 fans in seats and then it starts to go downhill from there. It’s that little taste of winning that kind of like lures everybody in and then when the winning goes away, it really does like fall apart pretty quickly. At least in my experience. Uh, and to the other point, I mean, I know it was a lot of question about tanking. I mean, just look at the lottery right now. I mean, you got two teams that literally are in the top two picks that didn’t tank at all. And the ones that did kind of got punished by it by the game. karma, you know, it’s like all these people like what was the James Brendan, you probably both remember this better than I can, but what was the last team like to have the worst record win the lottery? Detroit, maybe. I mean, it’s it just never happens. It it like never happens. Atlanta jumped last year. Uh San Antonio the year prior. The new odds just teams. It’s chaos, right? Yeah, it is. And like look, I don’t think tanking isn’t good for the game. I mean, like I I was I was looking today um the difference between I So 68 wins is what Oklahoma finished with, right, on the season, right? Um which is an incredible year. I mean, that’s just a bonkers year. U Minnesota finished with 49 wins. So, OKC is 19 games better in the regular season than Minnesota. Um, Utah won 17 games, Washington won 18 games, and Charlotte won 19. The difference between the two teams in the Western Conference Finals in win loss, there were teams who didn’t even win that many games on the season, like if you’re a fan of the Utah Jazz, like why would you want to pay to go to a game? Like literally, like honestly, why would you want to pay to go to a game? Like if they’re going out there and literally benching half their team just because just because they think that they might get Cooper flag and then they don’t and then they end up with what the fifth pick. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree it Sean. It was karma. Go ahead, Brandon. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I I think to play the other side a little it’s again how much if they are just going out there and competing and then fighting for a 10th seed and doing that year after year what point do you lose interest like I think the idea obviously is that there will be something to something greater to root for down the line uh with this vision but again lottery odds make that really tough like I don’t remember if these were pre uh those odds but OKC’s tank obviously they were in the gutter for a long not and it takes getting that right guy um or they already had SGA but the right surrounding pieces take the next step. Detroit getting Cade um in the way that they did. Orlando was in the gutter for a little while until they went and got Paulo and Fron. Um so, you know, I think it goes both ways and I think I’m a little more protanking than than you gentlemen. I’m not anti-tanking. I’m not anti like throwing like like taking a step back and starting over. They’re just not going to. Well, okay. No, I agree. The conversation should not be tanking. The conversation should be hitting the reset button. Like, sell off your pieces. Like almost like you’re a bad baseball team. Like, call up the young play do your September call ups, play your young guys, and piss away the season and then unload. Give all your worthy players to contending teams, whatever. Um, I feel like there’s a strategy to do that and they you have to situate yourself to do that. And you could argue that they’re better situated to do to do that in 2027 than they are currently right now. My point would be if they were willing to do that, they would have had to have done that probably pre-last um to to really set the table to go and do something like that. Are you saying going into 27 28 because that’s when Lavine is done? Not even Lavine. I mean, you just look at the contracts like there’s like a cliff like where all the contracts basically end at there’s no one really. And again, they’ll extend if they still have Keegan Murray on the team, they’ll extend him uh before the season starts. Whatever they do with Keon Ellis, like you’ll have some players that will be beyond that, and that’s because they’re for your future. Um, but yeah, in 2027, currently as currently constructed, there’s a cliff in in 2027 at the end of 2027. Yeah, I I totally I see the same thing Sean does, but I also like it doesn’t have to be that far out. Right. Right. Like I I I don’t think this is doomsday. I I want to see what Scott Perry has like in his bag before I start thinking about just how bad things could get. Um, you know, again, this Sabonis contract, I there are still teams in the NBA that would take Sabonis without any question. Like I I don’t have any question about that. I like there he is a very very good player. You can still say top 20 top 25 player in the NBA, right? And there’s like 450 players plus uh in in the league. So I I definitely think that like you could move on from Domas, but the Lavine contract, not ne not this season, but either next summer or midway through the year is going to be a really valuable piece if you don’t do something like extend him this summer because he’s a $49 million expiring contract. And that means that you’re gonna have all kinds of teams going, “Hey, we don’t really love this, you know, this player that we have that’s sitting here that makes a lot of money.” Um, or he doesn’t fit or we drafted some kid and he all of a sudden became way better than what we thought. You know, just like think of the Brandon Ingram uh Trey Murphy uh situation, right? Where it’s like, hey, he becomes expendable and some team may say, “Hey, we’d like to get out from underneath this contract and and bail on it.” um are you interested in trading away uh you know Lavine for it? So that that one doesn’t concern me. The the again the D Rozan contract I think can be moved this off season. He’s he’s owed a little under 25 million this year and has a $10 million uh like buyout for for next season as well. A and then you know we start getting Valenunis has a one-year deal here. Uh there’s a team option at 10 million bucks for the year after that. Um so you have your choice of when you want to move on from that contract. Um and then lastly, you know, again, Malik Monk is has a had he signed a four-year deal, but the third year is a player option. So we’re two years away from that being off the books as well. So there could very well come a point in the near future where the Kings do have salary cap space again and go can go out and be players in the free agent market. Uh so like again I I think it can move pretty quickly. And also you know I know there’s some I mentioned it earlier on the radio today about you know Oklahoma City because a lot of people will point to that and Benjamin in the chat is another person saying pointing at OKC as well but their best player came to them via trade. So, like going full tank, you have to draft well. You have to get I mean they didn’t have How many number one picks did they have? Number one. Ton. Tons. No, no, no. They have tons of first round picks. I’m saying how many times did they win the lottery? Yeah. Okay. These are not number one picks. So, you have to draft well. And the Kings have been in the top five. Hasn’t worked out. doesn’t mean it doesn’t you know I always say and I know look I know people will push back on this but pretend Marvin Bagley never happened and pretend you had Luca Donuch of the belief that and I’m not trying to say this as a total negative towards Sacramento or the Kings but given situations like players can be a product of their environment opportunity looks different in Dallas for someone like Luca when he was drafted they traded Dennis Smith uh they traded Porzingis I mean they traded a lot of people to make things work when Luca was in Dallas. If Luca comes to Sacramento, does Sacramento have that same type of opportunity for Luca? I’m I’m not saying he wouldn’t have gone on to be a great player. Would it would it have gone into winning? Point is, you can put Luca in Sacramento and still end up with a shitty result. So, it it doesn’t mean that all of a sudden it would have translated to success. Still, Dallas didn’t win a championship. They did make it to the finals, but point being, guys. So, um, just because you have access to top picks, you know, one through five, whatever, doesn’t mean they pan out for you. Well, and I would add to that, too, like if you just sticking with OKC, right? Like Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe, um, Kase Wallace, like they have all these dudes are about the same size that just like they bring it, right? They’re they’re like super super productive players for that team. You’re going to add Lud Door to that. You can add Alex Caruso to that. You can all add all of these players, right? Um most of them like there’s a good chance if they were drafted by the Sacramento Kings, they wouldn’t work out. they wouldn’t get the opportunity to succeed and they wouldn’t develop in the same way because Sacramento has not proven in the past that they are able to develop talent and take you know late first round picks, early second round picks and convert them into something that’s like a rotational NBA player and you know like I think the Kings have done better in the undrafted free agent market uh the undrafted rookie free agent market than they have in the second round of the draft. And actually, I know they have. They’ve done much better. And that’s a problem. You know, like Oklahoma has created a pipeline of talent, but they’ve also created a culture where you can develop and become a better player and become part of something and and give um a lot, you not be selfish and and be part of something much much bigger than you. And that’s why they’re probably going to play for an NBA championship. And then teams like the Kings and lots of other teams, not just the Kings, are not in that situation. Yeah. I mean, Miami, another prime example, even though they may go a little overboard with how much they embrace the culture, writing it on the court is probably a line that I would not cross personally. Um, but if it’s like a deeper organizational issue here, I guess it feels like that’s kind of what you guys are saying. Then where is the fix? Is it front office and you know all the staff that they hire, head coaches, assistants, player development, um, and all of that? Like where if it’s, you know, even if Luca got drafted here, would it really matter? What fixes that? Well, I’ll tell you what, what didn’t fix it is winning didn’t fix it. Temporarily winning at least, you let the you let the chaos right back in the door. Yeah. like like that’s good organizations choose a path and they stick with it. Mark Dagnel has not been, you know, like a perfect coach for the last 5 years. He’s built a winning franchise. You know, Michael Malone built a winning franchise. Even like a guy like Taylor Jen, E Jenkins in Memphis built a winning franchise. You’re hoping that that you choose the right people and they’re able to do that. They’re able to build something. But, you know, again, I to kind of go back to like the pathway that I’m going to keep pointing people to and like look, I anyone who thinks that like we defend uh VC Ronad Diva on here or anything, like we don’t like VC’s not a good owner. Like how many head coaches have we covered in the last how many front offices? We got four front offices. He’s been in charge for 12 years. And in that same amount of time, it’s like what? Michael Malone, Ty Corbin, George Carl, um Dave Joerger, uh Luke Walton, Alvin Gentry, Mike Brown, Doug Christy, weren’t eight head coaches. Like that’s not stability. Like he he’s an agent of chaos. And I don’t think he means to be, but it’s kind of what happens, right? And so like I’m not going to I don’t know the answer of how this thing all works out in the end. I will tell you that in 2017, Scott Perry made a really strong impression on me. I think he made a strong impression on on Shawn. He made a strong impression on the people around him in the Kings organization who felt like the place was going in the right direction and then he he left. And so I kind of want to see what that looks like again because I don’t remember another offseason where the Kings went in to a year and had a little bit of cap space and came out of an off seasonason with one of the best point guard free agents in the class and George Hill and a you know future Hall of Famer and and Vince Carter even if he was close to 40 and and Zebo who would still been a very productive player. Like you you add that with the draft picks, like we don’t know what would have happened because it played out for three months, right? But still, George Hill is one of the best free agent signings the franchise has ever had. Whether it worked out that way, he he was terrible when he got here, but but the year before when he was a free agent that year, best year of his career was really really good. And the fact that he was terrible here in Sacramento, he had some personal issues. He had like a lot of things going on in his life, but still like I’m I I kind of want to give Scott Perry an opportunity to see what he does. And that’s not me liking Beck or or changing my tune on Bec. This is me saying, “Hey, look, this is a guy who’s running the show now. This is who we’re covering.” And you know, you hope that he figures it out. And they were really young. That was the that was their last rebuild. And you can argue in the way it was done because they didn’t collect the whole wealth of first round picks around it, but they did in a way. I mean, remember the draft day trade where you added three first round picks for the one that you had or two more, excuse me. You ended up with three first round picks in that in that in that one draft. I mean, yeah, just they didn’t work out. and to be able to acquire a lot of those first round picks and have a wealth of them like OKC does, like some of these other teams have been able to try to put together. Utah’s obviously trying to do it now. Um, that’s kind of the blueprint. So, it gives you the majority, it gives you the most chances at finding your star, but it also utilize those to your advantage and trade for somebody who’s a budding star. And that’s what OKC was also able to do when they landed Sha Gilgis Alexander. Yeah, I think it’s an interesting discussion and like when we were coming into this podcast, one of the things like first of all, let’s before we completely forget about this, shout out to Shay Gilgis Alexander who was named the MV NBA MVP this afternoon. Um I think it was the right choice. Uh his team was way better than every other team in the Western Conference. Uh his team was excellent and he was phenomenal and led the league in scoring and I think it was deserving and two-way player. Yeah. Two-way player. Incredible defensive player. Yeah. And I love Nicole Joic and dude put up a triple double and was absolutely insane this year, but his team wasn’t nearly as good. And uh so shout out to Shay. Just Brennan, did they get it right? I don’t think there was a wrong answer between the two is it’s kind of a copout on my end, but it’s really how I feel. I mean, Yokic’s numbers were insane to pretty much put up a 30point triple double on average. 29.6, 12.7, and 10.2. Like, I I just don’t think you could go wrong voting for that guy. 57 from the field, 41 from three. It’s absolutely ridiculous numbers. Um, but there’s the best player on the best team who’s clearly the one leading that team. Um, a ridiculous plus minus when he’s on the floor verse off, which you could say the same thing about uh, Joic and Denver, but that holds a lot more weight when your team wins 68 games. So, I personally would lean Jokic, but I don’t think there’s really a wrong answer. I mean, here’s the other thing. They got it they got it right given the history of Joic. Yes. Is Joic the best player in the world? Yes. But what Shay Gilgage Alexander did with the Thunder to be the face of that program who had 16 games separation between first place and second place in the West. I mean, and be a two-way player and all the accolades. I mean, his stats were incredible. Uh, this was this was the year for the streak to end for Joic and it’s unfortunate because he put up incredible numbers. I agree. But if we know Joker, he’ll probably do it again. And as long as the separation from the top to wherever his team is isn’t as as vast, then yeah, he’ll probably win another one. When you say given his history, you’re talking about voter fatigue essentially. Yeah. I mean, people are every year he gets better. And it’s kind of like not to compare it to Steve Nash, but when Steve Nash won his first, probably should have gone to Shaq, but Nash followed that up and had a better season. And that’s kind of why. And look, during this stretch, Joic has won a championship. So, I don’t think any of the MVPs that he’s won have been uh sullied or or not deserved. But if there was ever an argument to be made of anybody, you know, walking across his pitcher mound, so to speak, Shay Shade Gilis Alexander deserved it this year. Yeah. Um, actually, I’m going to pull up a a a comment here from the count of Monty Crypto. I’d argue that there are many different tempos running simultaneously at any time on the court during our games, Kings games. If Debo has a destination in mind, make it happen. We owe that to him. Um, it kind of kicks off like what our our like real conversation today is after, you know, the the basic general conversation, basketball conversation we already had. Um, I agree 100%. I thought that there were multiple tempos going at one time and I thought it looked weird and odd and horrific most of the time. And it’s not because, you know, one player is good or one idea is good or bad, but at the same time like you felt like this uneasiness with this team the entire season and especially after the Fox trade where it was there was not a clearcut who’s number one, who’s number two, who’s number three. It was a lot of like just really a struggle. So, let’s get to What happens when you don’t have a point guard either? Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Um, what do you guys think is uh is the biggest need, you know, coming into this off season? Like I know the point guard situation, but um and I know Scott Perry listed him, but I think there there’s probably a deeper conversation here. Yeah. I mean, surface level, it’s exactly what Domas told us. It’s that they need a point guard, and Sean just mentioned it. I mean, you need to have an orchestrator out there to keep everything in place. Like Minnesota, getting Mike Connley was huge for them, whether Cat was there pre that trade or not. Like, they needed somebody um adult in the room is kind of the wrong way to put it, but I’m lacking better wording, I guess. And I think it’s the right way to put it to situation. Yeah, fair enough. Um, and I I think it’s just somebody that has been there before, been experienced, being able to recognize, especially with all the creators and scorers on this Sacramento roster coming down the floor like, hey, Zach’s touched the ball the last four possessions and Debo hasn’t gotten it this quarter. I’m going to go towards that side of the court this time. And especially how free flowing the offense is, there is a lot of choice on what side are you going to, you recognize who’s over there. Um, and so somebody orchestrate all that makes a lot of sense. But to go a little bit deeper, and I think the point guard plays into that, they need an identity. You don’t know what this team is going to bring you on a night-to-ight basis. They were 19th in pace last year. Um, seventh in offense is encouraging, but you have to be a better defensive team. Like Scott Perry’s mentioned, Mike Brown, Monty McNair, I’m sure the list goes on and on. Uh, 22nd in defense is not going to cut it. you watch, you know, tonight’s game of New York and Indie was probably a little bit of an outlier in the shot making, but there’s been plenty of playoff games that end with both teams in double digits. So, I I think that they need an identity. They need to know what they are going to do on a nightly basis. And that’s a lot of what we heard from Scott and Doug. Sean, how well I think I’d answer with a question. I mean, it’s a point guard for sure, but I think the way I look at it and I’m curious to see how you guys feel like unboxing of we of the Kings saying we need a point guard. It has to be the right point guard. Like good point guard. If you have a good point guard, you have a good team, right? You can’t just have a run-of-the-mill average point guard um like Phoenix just tried with Trey Jones. right? You you have to if you’re going to be a team that’s going to be worth a damn and you have these collection of veterans, you need to somehow find a way to land a quality point guard. And what I would say is a 15 level or above, meaning anywhere one through 15 in the league. That’s the type of player you have to get. So, however you do your math and rank your top point guards in the league, you need one of those one through 15. And if you don’t get a one through 15, in my opinion, you’re pissing in the wind. Like that doesn’t equal success for the team that you have. Even if you still have Demonos Sabonis on your team with somebody like Malik Monk, two people who are very much capable of being playmakers, um, dribble handoff, all that stuff. Whatever system that Doug Christie wants to run, he’s going to need a reliable point guard. And if they’re going to have any success whatsoever, in my opinion, it needs to be a top 15 point guard in the league. Okay, so it Sean and I don’t always agree on everything, but this is something like I’ve been saying non-stop. What the Kings can’t do here is go back to the days of signing Darren Collison and Ty Lawson and these guys who are not top 15 point guards. They might not be top 20 point guards. They’re more like between 22 and 28. um like the point guard position is is like so crucial in today’s NBA game and you know most of the time it it is a player like De’Arren Fox a leading scorer type guy like there are more of those guys now in the league than there aren’t and I don’t know how the Kings go and get that guy but I I think going out and getting just stop gaps what’s your stop gap for like because I don’t see a time if if you’re going to go get a middle-of the road point guard and you become a middle-of the road team and you sit there and and win 33 to 40 games every year and draft around number 12 or number 10 like time and time again finding an elite point guard is nearly impossible and so you got to find a way to go get that guy and like it’s going to cost that that’s you know again one of the reasons why you took back two first round picks in the dear and Fox deal. Should have got more. Should have got a young player. You should should have got more in the Fox deal. But the reason why you brought back two unprotected first round picks, one from San Antonio and one from Minnesota, is because you’re going to need those picks to go get the player that you really have to replace Dear Fox with. Like I I don’t look at um at Zack Lavine as a dear Fox replacement. I mean, finding a true point guard is is like a huge deal for this this team and it might cost him two. It might cost him three first round picks and I don’t know, you know, so I’m with you guys. Point guard’s the first position on the on the board, but I also don’t know that it’s the biggest money position that you have to go fill because I I think the small forward or power forward spot, whichever one Keegan Murray’s not playing, is almost equally as important. and and whatever happens here, I think the Kings need to find a way to improve both the point guard and one of their forward positions. And if there’s a $40 million player or $38 million player or something out there that you can get, I don’t care if he plays the three or the four or the one. You just have to get them because this team needs more talent and they need more of those types of players that can actually change the direction of your franchise. and then use your your trade exception uh your Kevin Herder trade exception or your mid-level exception to try to fill the other void that you have. Yeah. I mean, and with their current salary construction, that means probably moving on from one of these top guys. Like you don’t want to be stuck with three max salaries with Second Apron how it is now. And you saw Phoenix deal with that and shoot outside of Bradley Beal. I mean, they had two of guys that were viewed probably top 10, top 15 coming into the year with Booker and KD and and Beiel wasn’t horribly off and obviously um didn’t pan out exactly how you expected, but all the surrounding guys around them have to be minimums. They have to make all these cost cutting moves. And so, you know, it it’s going to take a shakeup to figure out how you bring in these sort of talents, how you build an identity because again, right now it’s a it’s a collection of talent. And to your point of a point guard being that important, you can go back to the Pacers deciding to move on from from Domas and going in the direction of perimeter creation. Like Domas kind of functions as a point guard out there sometimes, but there is so much more value in or it’s just an important piece on the team to have somebody that can break the defense down from the perimeter. You can pull them out more. You’ll see guys getting doubled damn near half court and the space that that creates for everybody else. They’re not doing that for Domos. Um, and that’s not a knock on him. He has his ways of helping, but you need that from the perimeter. And let alone mention that you kind of like Trey Young’s a great idea in in theory, I guess. Say, well, feel how you want about that, but it answers your playmaker distributor, but you have to care about the defense here, too. You gave up a ridiculous amount of threes last year and on a a phenomenal percentage for other teams. And so you have to have some perimeter creation at the same time. And it’s it’s just a tough formula when I feel like they need so many things filled, but the reality is you’re not going to get it all in one guy. Yeah. No, I I agree. Now, um I I know I I didn’t want to bring up specifics, but I think there are tears, right, Sean? You’re you’re saying a top 15 guy. You’re saying, man, you you really do need to go out and get a Trey Young or you need to get a John Morant. um or you need to get somebody of that ilk. Um is there a name outside of that that you’re like, “Huh?” uh if I’m the Kings, I would go get I mean, you shoot for the stars, right? I mean, you got to you got to you got to go for it. I I I think it’s how you define it also. I mean, I think um I was talking to somebody today who really felt that Tyler Herro would be a nice fit for Sacramento. I don’t necessarily disagree, but I also wonder necess, you know, Do you define him as a point guard? I think some do, some don’t. Um, it depends on what your roster construction looks like. But to that point, like I think that person is a little higher on some looking at something like player efficiency rating as opposed to some other elements statistically or even the eyeball test like somebody who’s accustomed to winning, somebody who’s a two-way player, somebody who So I think being a top 15 point guard in the league is uh in the eye of the beholder, whoever, you know, but in my mind it’s absolutely paramount to identify one of the league top 15 players in the league, however you define it, and then you go get them. Um, and I think in my mind, it happens through trade. I don’t think anybody is available in my in my estimation through free agency that you can add to this team right now and me feel better about their point guard uh position, especially from a starting standpoint. So, um I don’t know who that is. Yeah, John Morant, sign me up. Um you know, there’s there’s other guys out there for sure. Darius Garland, sign me up. I mean, there’s there’s players that you hear bannied about a lot. Derek White. Um, what whatever that looks like. I know someone brought up Drew Holiday. To me, that’s a that’s a no. Too old. Contract’s too bad. Um, but I love Drew Holiday, so seems weird to say, but there’s there’s it would be a non-starter for me. Um, but I think that’s the type of position, that’s the type of mentality that that Scott Perry, BJ Armstrong, and this this Kings front office has to have if they’re going to change their fortunes in any way, shape, or form, especially for this year. I don’t know where they would stand on it. Sorry, James. But like I think the idea of trying to get a young guy that’s maybe buried a little bit on a team as well that you believe in their future, I don’t again, I don’t know how willing they would be to do that. Young point guards take a little bit of time. It depends what you’re thinking expectations for this year, but like for example, I haven’t heard much conversation about him, but like Anthony Black is behind a lot of guys in Orlando, was drafted this year, didn’t play all that much. Reed Shepard in Houston, you know, um are these guys that are buried behind other players and that maybe some of your pieces make sense and obviously you have to include draft capital, but in my mind like you can also try to go get younger talent. Can you trade your version of Alex Caruso for a Josh Giddy, you know? Well, what is your version of Alex Caruso? That’s a different question. And that’s probably like Malik and a first is your version of Alex Caruso, you know. Yeah. H Yeah. I mean, like, look, I don’t think there are any easy solutions. I I think the one thing that we’re kind of talking about here is going out and getting Taius Jones or or Trey Jones or I don’t know, Dennis Shruder like this. That’s what you’re Yeah. Well, I know they’re free agents, right? But that’s that’s not going to like change the outcome of the season. That That’s not what we’re talking about. I mean, you Sorry, James. I mean, you almost could very well start Devin Carter and find a, you know, low-end backup and and see what you have there. That almost feels like more bottled hope than going out and adding a piece like that. Yeah. And I think it’s going to be tough because like Bren, I think you said earlier like there’s going to be some difficult decisions here about players that that people love, you know, like what do you do with a Malik Monk? You know, like there like Kenny Carowway asked me today like, “Hey, how could you get to like a $45 million player in a trade?” And I’m like, “Well, there’s a couple of ways to do it. It’s easy. It It’s easy.” Well, it’s not Yeah, there are. But there are a couple of routes that the Kings could do. They could go something like Demard Rosen, Devin Carter, and Jonas Valentunis. That gets you close to 40 million. And that would work to get up to like a $45 million player, maybe a little bit higher. You didn’t even mention any of the the big trade exceptions. Well, no, because you can’t aggregate trade exceptions with players. So, you can’t take Demar De Rozan at $24.5 million and the Kevin Herder trade exception is $16.5 and go trade them straight up for a $40 million player because you can’t add those two together, right? What what you can do is you can send that $16.5 million trade exception to a different team for a $16 million player and that $16 million player goes to the other team that you’re sending Demar De Rozan to. And now you got a $40 million player in a roundabout way. So there are ways to Yeah, there are ways to do this, right? There’s also, you know, again, like there could be a band-aid that has to be ripped off here. The the other way is to go Malik Monk and and you know, again, Demard Rosen, that gets you over 41 million bucks. 42 million bucks. You can go Malik Monk and and Yonis Valenunis and Devin Carter. that puts you at, you know, 35 million bucks. Like, so like it’s not going to be easy here. And I’m not I’m not saying, hey, go trade uh, you know, a guy like Malik Monk. But what I’m saying is that this team isn’t good enough. And you keep everyone keeps saying that they have to have a point guard. They have to have a point guard. And I hate to be honest with people and tell you the reason why they everyone feels like they need a point guard is because they put they traded one but they put Malik Monk as a starting point guard and they lost a bunch of games and like it did not work. And I I don’t think that’s super fair to Malik because I also don’t think that like the dynamics of the team were good. And I could see a way in which Malik Monk is your starting point guard and Keon Ellis is your starting two, but you’ve got to have a much different three and a much different you like vibe around the team. Like there are a lot of things that could happen here, but yeah, I don’t think it’s just as easy as just like, hey, let’s go get John Morant because John Mar’s going to cost you three or four first round picks. Um, and two of them are going to be your like one or two of those are going to be your own first round picks and they’re probably going to have to be unprotected. Yeah. And that’s a lot, right? And I Yeah, for sure. And I think on the Malik conversation, like you look through Zack Lavine, Devonis, Demartos, and Malik Monk, I think there’s an argument Malik may have the most value out of all out of all those guys in a deal. Um, and so, you know, you got to give something up to get something. And you could say Malik is a big part of this team, but reality is he’s a big part of a team that doesn’t make much sense. So I I think that everything has to be on the table and I definitely think about Malik just because of the value that I think that he would have and they don’t have many guys like that after I mean ahead of him is probably Keegan and then yeah I don’t know where you go after if somebody loves Domas I guess. Yeah. Um yeah it tough tough decisions. I know uh Jim Garfinkle, you bring up uh Scott Perry, has Scott Perry indicated which direction he will go. Um what we we know the identity he wants, but what direction is he going to take this team? Um I I think the direction he’s going to take this team, like, and this isn’t me being flippant, is a pathway to long-term playoff success. That’s where he wants to go. Whether he can get there or not, that’s another question. But that’s we’re not talking about a tear down here. And so if there’s a direction like you know if you’re gonna mold a team in Doug Christy’s image then go get him a bunch of 6’6 to 6’9 you know versatile defensive players that you know that he can work with. Um but I also you know I’m not sure what the the easiest pathway here uh to add everybody. So, um, yeah, I I think we’re going to have to give him a shot, though, to see what he can do. Yeah, I agree. And I will say I’m curious if you guys got the same, but the impression I got from his presser was that he wasn’t exactly going to fasttrack it either, though. He mentioned that this next year was about it being building an identity. Um, and when somebody asked, you know, do you have expectations specifically going into next season? And it it was about building an identity. It’s not about, hey, we’re, you know, for sure making the playoffs. did snow. We’re working towards that. Like you said, long-term sustainable playoff um playoff success, which I wonder a little bit giving the history of this team. Does playoff what does playoff success mean necessarily? Um but I staying in the freaking playoffs staying in the like Yeah. climbing or are we okay with a first round exit? Like playoff appearances is a start and that’s how they sustain. That’s how they sustain. to start as long as I also Brendan, just so you know, like the quickest way to get fired from a job is to walk in and say, “I will make the playoffs next year, right? Book it. Write it down. Put it on a podcast.” Yeah. And t-shirt. So, yeah, I get it. I I mean, I think that they’re in for u this is not going to be an easy build, you know, especially they’re walking into draft night without a first round pick. Like, there’s not immediate help coming from the draft. you hope that, you know, maybe they can find a diamond in the rough with the 12th pick in the second round, but I could also see a way in which they trade their second round pick in order to bring in another player uh and use a trade exception. You know, they’ve got Sasha Vinsk Visenov’s trade exception that expires um right after the draft, but before July 1st, and then they have Chris Wart’s trade exception that expires like in the first week of free agency as well. So, they they’re definitely going to have to be aggressive with those because like look, this team needs more than two or three players. Um especially since most of the deals we’re talking about require two or three players to go out in order to make a a substantial addition. Um so, lots lots and lots and lots of work to do. Um okay, like I don’t have a lot of directions to take this because I don’t want to get into specific players yet. Um, but uh let’s just let’s do a business of basketball. The business of basketball. Brennan’s back. There he is. Um, what? Why did you decide to days now to do it? Why, Sean? You just It’s a feeling. It’s a You wouldn’t know. You wouldn’t know. Clearly. I wouldn’t. Nope. I wouldn’t. There it is. Let’s just ask the uh the the question about um like Keon Ellis and and Keegan Murray because those are going to be it it appears the two pieces that um like internally the Kings are focusing on for help. Um you know, you can do Devin Carter and they’re like organic growth of Devin Carter and these guys, but um do we have any idea what you think these guys what they’re going to do with these guys this this uh summer? Keon of course has the uh they have the option of picking up his contract for this season. Um but then he becomes an unrestricted free agent. They can negotiate a contract after they do that, but you still are risking losing him at the end of next season or uh you know like not picking up his 2.1 2.2 $2 million contract for this year and having him be a uh restrictive free agent this summer or and then of course the other uh player is Keegan Murray who they’re going to have to sign to a contract extension if they want this off season and like what do you guys think that’s going to look like Sean? Well, I mean, I think Keegan Murray being one of the biggest assets on this team, has it been I think has it been devalued? Is it still as sexy as a of a of an asset as it was a year or two ago? I would argue that yes, I think it is, especially given uh what he’s done defensively. Um, I think that is a question that only Scott Perry can answer at this at this point in time because he’s obviously going to be the one that has to try to retool this team. Should Keegan Murray get to training camp and has and hasn’t been moved, then yes, I think whether they value him as as a piece in the long term or or not, I think they get to a point where they do have to you get to the if he’s on the team, you have to extend him and that’s just good business. doesn’t make him any less movable. In fact, it probably makes him more movable at that point. Um, but that is that is just the the business of basketball, so to speak. Um, with Keon though, like I don’t think it really matters. I think as long as you keep him away from restricted free agency, um, he’s a very very valued piece and I think they’ll get that figured out relatively quickly. I don’t know which which way is is better. I just say keep him out of restricted free agency and do right by the player. Yeah, I I think that’s fair on Keon’s side. Um obviously there’s a limit. Like I don’t think we’re talking anywhere in 20 million. I don’t think you were saying anything like that. Um I don’t think we get close to that number is really sort of where I’m at when it comes to that. And he’s an important piece of this team. I think that’s definitely something you prioritize. The Keegan one is interesting to me. um without having heard much about it. Like I imagine that the conversations would be tough and and probably different on each end. Like Keegan did digress as an offensive player last season, but his side could probably argue, well, hey, we got we got a lot less touches and less opportunity on that team. Um, I I’m curious what you said though that you think that his value could even go up when he gets extended because my thought would be that that’s when I if maybe even evens out or potentially goes down. Obviously, it’s all dependent on on what they really pay him, but your expectations grow so much when you get the payday, right? Yeah. I think what I meant by that is assigning a larger dollar amount to him for a guy who has a ton of upside still. um I if you’re if it that ends up being a little bit more movable in the sense for the from a king standpoint to get something back maybe a bigger a bigger piece so to speak. Um I I don’t think the attraction of him on the open market uh dwindles at all with a higher contract. I I just don’t especially since he’s already heading into essentially a extension eligible year. Um, I think, yeah, two years ago, rookie scale, everyone’s going to like that. But knowing what he should be and what, you know, potential is, uh, I think him having a higher dollar amount does still make him easily easily able to move. In fact, you don’t have to add more pieces to it. It could be a straight up for something else or bigger dollar amount. Yeah, I guess it depends how you feel about his ceiling. Yeah, for me it’s hard to figure out the number. Like are we talking Trey Murphy 4 112, you know, or starts at 25, gets up to about 31 in that final year? I don’t I don’t know. You mentioned the ceiling for Keegan. I’m still not sure what that is. And this isn’t the same GM that drafted him. No, I I get all of that. Um, I I know um Keith Smith from Spottrack uh talked about it this week and he put like his predictive number at a 5-year between 130 and 140 million. Um, which to me like that works out to 26 to 28 million. uh which of course you know like what you’re talking about Brendan that means that his starting salary would be more like 20 23 million and then go up 8% every year. Um you know for for a deal like that sounds like it’s probably in the right ballpark. Like I again I think Keegan Murray is is probably going to like his ceiling to me looks like Cam Johnson. Uh, well, not his ceiling. I think his his floor is probably Cam Johnson. And his career path, it looks very similar to Cam Johnson, although I think he’s got a little bit uh better um like defensive acumen than Cam, but I still like I think his contract will be around that. And then look at like when Cam signed his contract and what the salary cap looked at and what that would look like then and what the percentage of the salary cap will be moving forward. you know, if you’re looking at 20, you know, let’s let’s just say two years from now when he he his first year of his of his rookie scale of his extension kicks in, let’s say he’s making 24 million, but at that point the salary cap’s going to be at 170 million, right? So, if we do like just quick math here, that’s that percentage of the salary cap um isn’t going to be that much. You’re looking at 24 / 170 = like 14% of the salary cap. That’s basically, just so we’re all on the same page here, that’s basically what they were paying Harrison Barnes. Between 13 and 14% of the salary cap. That’s a good number. It’s just the salary cap is going to rise 10% every year from here on out because of the massive television deal. So these dudes are getting paid no matter what. So it like today like two years ago is 18 million is realistically this year’s 24 million. It’s just the dynamics of it. So like I think that that’s probably I think that’s fair. I I don’t know that it’s the greatest deal ever. And of course, you know, we can look at I don’t know if you guys heard Brock Pretty like started out asking for $65 million a year and settled it what was it at 53. 53. Yeah, I think 53 for the 265. Yeah, for the that that’s for his accent. But he also didn’t get a bump this year. He’s getting a bunch of the guaranteed money this year, but his salary for this year stays at like 2 or 3 million. Like stays super low. So like his massive contract kicks in not this year, but the year after. And that’s what I think Keegan too, like um you’re looking at a player who’s who’s not going to get the top of the market. He’s not going to get a full max money deal, but he’s also not going to get some $15 million a year deal. Um you know, that’s just I don’t I don’t think that’s going to happen. Um, I think the other question is like it I’ll just lay out the perfect scenario for Keon Ellis so people understand. The perfect scenario for the Kings, not for Keon, but for the Kings is that they opt into his deal for this season at 2.2 or 2.3 million bucks. But then they they have a deal waiting and give him an extension. And they can give him an extension from what what I’ve read of like up to four year like 89 million. Uh, and I don’t they’re not going to give him four years and 89 million, but I think you would give him like a little if he would take the 2 million for this year and give you some flexibility in this off season and then you would give him a little bit more in the second third in his first, second, third year of of that new extension. So, I don’t know what you guys feel like Keon’s worth um as far as a player, but I I’m going to guess like a minimum is going to be like a fouryear $40 million contract. And I think it could get up to 48 million. I think it could get up to a little higher than that. And so people understand the the one problem the Kings have is if he does become unrestricted, they could lose him for nothing. But if he is a restricted free agent this summer, I don’t think there’s going to be a lot of top tier teams that are just, you know, there’s not a lot of salary cap teams already and he’s not going to be one of the top salary cap, one of the top players that play the teams are going after, but he is going to be a player that someone with a mid-level exception might go after. And so that’s at 14.1 million. and I don’t think he’s going to get that much, but you never know if you’ll allow him to become a restrictive free agent and let him go out there. Um, so that’s where you’re, you know, again with Malik Monk, I think there was concern someone pay him like 25 million a year. That was on the table, right? And the most the Kings could do is like $18 million to start. Well, this is different because the Kings can pay him, you know, whatever. They can pay him up to like 89 million, but at the same time, um, if they open a door, I think that there will be somebody who might come calling saying, “Hey, look, I I don’t think there’s a huge amount of difference between him and Contavius Caldwell Pope, and Contavius Caldwell Pope signed for 22 million a year, and so I’ll give him the full mid-level at 14 million a year.” Got me? So, like I think it’s a little complicated. There is. I will say KCP obviously slowed down a lot this year, but there’s a huge difference. Like I love Keon. Um, you know, I’m the chin tattoo, still TBD, but there’s a lot of weaknesses here still. Chin tattoo. I thought it was lower back tattoo. No, never talked about lower back. You might be thinking about somebody else, Sean. Um, I there’s still just a lot of weaknesses when it comes to offense. There’s He’s a catch and shoot three-point shooter. I thought he got a little bit better about cutting off ball and attacking the rim um as an offball cutter and using some of his three-point shooting, but that still needs work finishing around the rim. I, you know, don’t feel great when he’s bringing the ball up the floor. We saw, I think, back to early match up against Houston where he was gettingounded and struggling to do that. Um, defensively, he’s phenomenal. There is an aspect of sort of risktaking and the riskreward that comes with that, but he’s also not he’s not Alex Caruso on that end. Like could he sneak on to an alldefensive team? Sure. He’s not a first team alldefensive guy though. I don’t think he’s not I don’t think he’s positionally versatile enough defensively to be in that top five conversation on that end. So, he’s an extremely valuable player, but let’s not get it overhyped here. I I I do wonder about that because I wonder if given a larger opportunity on a on a really solid team like you put him like on OKC where he’s surrounded by stellar defenders. Would could someone like him even outshine some of those defenders on that on that team um if given an opportunity? Look, looking at OKC is a good is a good sort of, you know, pathway here. Isaiah Joe makes he made 13 million this year, 12.3 next year, 113 and 113. Uh Aaron Wiggins made 10.5 this year, 9.6, 8.8 and 8 with a declining scale contract, which is really intriguing to me. Um Kasem Wallace, again, he’s on a rookie scale deal, so he’s making 5.8 this next year. Uh, and then they’re going to have to make a decision on what they want to do with him. So, I think all of those numbers are are reasonable and around what you might see Keon get. I don’t know if like again I think Aaron Aaron Wiggins is probably like a decent comp. Yeah. Right. I would say I think Keon’s a little better than those guys. But so yeah, maybe we’re like 12 to 15 range. Not ridiculously higher than what you’re talking about though. Okay, cool. Yeah, I I think that that’s kind of what we’re looking at. Um, and I know Secier Nagley says he isn’t Herb Jones and like I there there’s a a difference between Keon Ellis especially like the positional uh versatility that you talked about the fact that you know Herb Jones uh can you know well that Keon can’t play he can defend once, he could defend twos. There are some threes in league he he can defend, but he can’t go up from there. And I think a guy like uh Herb Jones, because he’s 6’8, can defend the one, the two, and the three. Uh and there’s even times where he can probably defend the four without it being too big of a problem. But offensively, he’s as good as Herb Jones. Like he’s like he’s a better shooter than Herb Jones. Uh or at least he has been early in his career. And you know, these guys played together at Alabama. like they’re they’re friends, but I I like they have a ve very similar play style. I would love to see the Kings go get Herb Jones, and you can put Herb Jones and and Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray in the same starting lineup. I don’t care who the other two guys are. You’re at least going to be able to play, you know, league average defense and probably better. Um, but, you know, going out and getting Herb Jones, especially with this injury and all that stuff, isn’t going to be easy. But again, Herb Jones is a guy who makes around 13 14 15 million a year, right? So, yeah. All right, let’s uh let’s shut this thing down. Let’s uh let’s get to final thoughts. It’s getting late. Um I have a radio show to do in the morning. Um Oh, yeah. Well, I know like world’s smallest violin. Yeah. Uh but I do have to actually I do have to actually get this thing up and running and then actually go do a radio show in the morning. Um, what do you guys got? Final thoughts. Let’s go to Let’s go to uh let’s go to Shawn today. Brendan’s usually sec first, but let’s go to Shawn. Oh, I don’t have I’m really looking forward to Mission Impossible, by the way. I really want to see that movie. You didn’t have a final thought for about half a second there. No, I I didn’t. I didn’t. Uh I I I think I might try to sneak in a midnight showing or something to that effect tomorrow uh to to to get that out of the way. Did you see Tom Cruz being popcorn? I did. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of Tom Cruz making the making the rounds and it has been pretty entertaining. Uh I think he needs to run to each appearance that he does. Um since he’s always a running actor. Uh someone asked me in the chat if I have tattoos. I do not. No tattoos. That’s a deal I made with my grandmother. But the moment she dies, I will go get the tattoo. That’s ridiculous. Sean, that’s No, that’s the deal. I said, she said, “Be be the only one in my family that doesn’t my only grandchild that doesn’t have a tattoo.” I said, “Make you a deal. As long as you’re still alive, I will not do it.” So, you have to keep staying alive before or else I’ll go get one. And I think I would get planned. I’d probably get her name maybe just because of the stupid bet that I made with her. But it’s, you know, she’s going to be 90 next year or later this year. So, uh, keep on keeping on, Grandma. Um, so yeah, no, I have seen Sinners. Somebody was asking about Sinners. I’ve seen Sinners. Fantastic. Yeah. But no, man, my whole my whole headspace right now is Bottle Rock. DLo and Casey asked me today about trying to see um Kendrick and uh Siza, and I’ve seen Kendrick a few times, but I have never seen Siza. that that would be very much a a goal for this summer if I can somehow go find them. I just don’t think I’m able to because the prices are crazy here. DLO did come up with an idea of trying to see them in Vegas. That idea has merit, especially since the playlist is like what 40 songs or something like that. Damn. Yeah. Look at James yawning at my What’s that? S is gonna have her mic on. She better. Uh oh. It’s part of the requirement. Kyle Kyle is going to the Stray Cats. Is that what it is? Uh the K-pop band. Oh, okay. Like this weekend in Seattle and then he’s going again in San Francisco and seeing the Kendrick Lamar show on the the next night. So, he’s got like backtoback concerts back to back to back. I thought he was going to like an animal shelter to see some straight cats. No, I probably He would. He would. He’s a cat guy. Yeah, he is a cat guy. He is a cat guy. Yeah. Um I’m gonna try and see Hollyy at Thunder Valley. I think I’m going to try and get to that show. I will see Oasis in LA later this summer. That is definitely a bucket list, but I think I’m not going to see them because I don’t feel like the brothers will get along long enough to have made it to September when I’m supposed to see them. So, does Brennan even know who Oasis is? No, I know the name. I can’t name a song, but I’m sure there’s at least one or two that I would recognize. You definitely know two songs. I definitely will know a couple. I just can’t name them off top of my head. Yeah. Okay. All right, Brennan, what do you got? Um, you know, just to rub it in for Kings fans a little bit more, we got Tyrese playing great in the playoffs. Sasha Vzenkov winning Euro League playoffs MVP, which apparently is a new award. They’re going into their final four now and they have an award for the playoffs prior to that. I believe they also have a final four MVP and so regular season playoffs final four MVP. He uh made all year a league first team. So I don’t know. For me it’s fun. I know Kings fans might get a little agitated watching guys uh do well in other places, but we we’ve been around um these guys a little bit. I’m always going to find myself rooting for them to do well. So always cool to see. Um, a lot of former Kings that did well in this postseason, but I don’t really have too much. Like I said at the beginning, have some family members, uh, younger ones. All my siblings are younger than me. Uh, starting to graduate here a little bit. So, that’s getting interesting. You know, uh, little brother, last one on my mom’s side that is is going to kind of get out of the house and move down to SoCal or move down to San Diego. SoCal, same thing. Um, so yeah, kind of interesting stuff there, but nothing crazy on my end about going back going back to your Tyrese’s point and people like being pissed off or whatever, like why would you hold it against he didn’t want to go like I just don’t understand that it wasn’t his idea to be traded. For him it’s everybody feels the type of way that he wouldn’t stop talking about it. I would say he kept getting asked and and the same things that they loved about him when he was talking about being in Sacramento all the time is the same thing that they’re going to hate when he’s asked about it. Like that’s crazy. This guy is known for talking. That’s what we, you know, everyone fell in love with. So, let a guy be himself. That’s I don’t get it. Yeah. I’m I’m with both of you guys. I I enjoy like I had somebody ask me tonight, are you pulling for Tyrese Hallebertton? I’m like, I’m not pulling for him, but I enjoy watching Tai play. I enjoy Tai. Like, I I think he’s a very engaging human being. Like, he’s fun. He’s a cool dude. And I I don’t really care who wins that series, but I’m here for good basketball and I’m here to watch like the the best of the best and Tyrese Hallebertton is one of the best and like it’s fun to watch. Um, now like that doesn’t mean I think you know like whatever happened with the Kings trade and all that stuff, it happened. Um, but uh I’m kind of just here for for good basketball and same thing with the the Western Conference series. You know, I I can tell you who I think will win, but that doesn’t mean I’m pulling for anybody because to be honest, I have no stake in any race at all. Um, let’s see. Outside of that, I um since we last podcast, well, because I’ll I’ll explain. I’m getting old. Um I did have a birthday last week and I turned 50. I don’t usually talk about my age. Um but yeah, the big 5 um was last week. So, uh that was a little difficult to get past, but I’m all right. I’m moving forward. Went to Santa Barbara. Had a good weekend. um good friends and and the wife and hanging out. Um but yeah, it’s a it’s a big birthday. Um and then I’ve got a big birthday party coming up this weekend, so that’s going to be fun. Um and then I’m going to do something that I I typically do, and I hate that I’m having to say this right now, but can you guys please listen and not go swimming in the river? I know it sounds weird every time I say this, but please don’t please don’t please don’t swim in the river. Um, like I I was watching this weekend and like they had to send a helicopter to save a kid. They had to another group of people like had a body float upstream and they they were able to like hold it until the cops got there. Uh, someone who had been missing for like two weeks already. Uh, yet like please be safe and don’t go in the river. It’s too cold right now. There’s too much snow melt off. There’s too many branches. is too dangerous and I just don’t want people to die. Um, so that’s that’s my my uh PSA for for the season. There we go. Benjamin, my PSA for the summer. I live on a lake. I know it’s not fair that I live on a lake and I tell people not to swim in the river, but go find somewhere to swim that’s not the river because it’s just freaking dangerous as hell. And wear a life jacket. Yeah. And even that, like sometimes it doesn’t help. Like the the current right now is too fast. It’s just way too fast. And don’t bring your kids to the river right now because like then a whole family of you could go and I don’t want to see that. So, um yeah, that’s that’s my PSA. I was wondering where James’ wine was tonight cuz last podcast want to know. I kind of I kind of feel like I should have gone and got my my bottle of wine still, but um I’m good. It’s been a fun night. So, I do miss hanging out with my guys here. uh like this is the one downfall to the summer that we don’t get to see each other on a daily basis or you know semi on a multiple week basis. Um and and just so short cake says Ham doesn’t want to share the river with us. Normies I I grew up going to the river all the time and there are plenty of times I probably shouldn’t have swam in the river. Um look how great you turned out. I survived. I survived. That’s all that matters. Uh a lot of people do not. That’s the point. That’s the point. Um, all right. I I think that’s going to do it for this edition of the edition of the Kings Beat podcast. Uh, make sure to uh jump on board with um Underdog Fantasy. Use a promo code King’s Beat, all one word. Uh, that will get you stuff. Uh, make sure to look for us next week. We’ll be back with another episode of the King’s Beat. uh go to KC3 and support Shawn and all of his endeavors that he’s doing there. Even though this weekend he’s gonna be at Bottle Rock just like being crazy and doing Sean things. Um also make sure to find Brendan wherever he writes and wherever that is uh wherever that is and and support uh Brendan’s work and and also uh you know jump on board with the Kingsbeat. Go to the kingsbeat.com become a subscriber do all that stuff. We’ll have a I swear I Let me get through it. Let me get through this week. Let me get through next week and we will have I will set up a a happy hour whether it’s in person or it’s another Zoom. We’ll we’ll do that. I I promise. I promise. Um sweet. Uh, so for KC3s, Sean Cunningham and Brendan Dunes from the Kings Bulls podcast, I’m James Ham, Kinger for ESPN 1320 and the Kings Beat. We’ll see you next week.

KCRA 3’s Sean Cunningham, Brenden Nunes from the Kings Pulse Podcast and The Kings Beat’s James Ham join forces for coverage of the Sacramento Kings.

Topics include the Pacers incredible win over the New York Knicks, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander winning the league MVP, Kings biggest needs heading into the offseason and another episode of The Business of Basketball discussing the future of Keegan Murray and Keon Ellis in Sacramento.

Thanks for joining us on this adventure! Big shoutout to Paul Jinkerson (@paulitition) for creating a new intro and outro for the podcast and to Brenden for creating our new overlay for the podcast.

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