Fit vs. Best Player Available for Bulls at No. 12 & All-NBA Team Reactions

Fit vs. Best Player Available for Bulls at No. 12 & All-NBA Team Reactions

[Music] What’s up everybody? And this is a new edition of the By the Horns podcast presented by Toyota. And you know that Toyota has more all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles than any other brand. So find yours and shine on. Toyota, let’s go places. Cam Smith rocking with my man Casey Johnson, CHSN Bulls insider as we continue on through this off season that is the NBA with the Chicago Bulls. But we know that the playoffs are definitely in full swing with the Eastern and Western Conference Finals spicing up. And we’ll get to that conversation a little bit later on in the pod. But first things first, you know, we got to touch on and hit you with some Bulls knowledge because we are creeping closer to the NBA draft in late June as we’re starting to ramp up with these individual workouts that are going on across the league with some teams in position to make some decisions on where and who they want to go with, especially for those teams in the lottery. So, I want to pass the ball to my man Casey Johnson and he’s going to get buckets because he has some information as we go through this draft workout and just as we get closer to the NBA draft. So, what’s the latest that you have for us Casey? Yeah, I mean the Bulls like all teams are in the process of conducting um individual workout or group workouts. Um you know, they are actually having one today. Um this is just one data point. All teams do this. Obviously, it’s uh good intel to get guys in your building, put them through your workout process. Um they’ve obviously also met with some players at the combine as we previously discussed. Um you know, some teams open this draft workout process to the media. The Bulls are not one of those teams. Um but, uh yeah, I mean, they’re just they’re doing their due diligence, getting as many people in as they can. A couple things I’ve heard, you know, since the last time we talked, Cam, is that um this is all one is leaguewide and one is more bull specific is there are a lot of question marks about Derek Queen’s draft stock and status um coming out of that combine where he did not test very well athletically. I mean, clearly he’s a skilled big man um and can score and uh very offensively gifted, but I think there are some question marks uh not only with the Bulls, but also around the league just, you know, like will he slide on draft night? Will he will he be like a modest booze from a year ago and kind of fall maybe initially projected top five, top six to a lower status? And if that is a situation and and he is there at 12, would he be a fit with the Bulls, especially as you and I discussed about with the way the Bulls want to play fast, athletically, uh, up and down. So, um, you know, that’s one thing lewide and then more more bulls specific. And, you know, we joke about how all teams always say, oh, they’re going to take best player available um, and not just focus on need. And we’ve always said the front court is more of a need than the back court. I’ve been told that that is the best player available is definitely in play for the Bulls, they will not be averse to taking a guard. If a guard slots as, you know, the best player on their board at when they get to number 12 and the logic behind that is, you know, even though they are guard heavy right now, the next roster iteration for the Bulls really is projected for that 2026 off season because that’s when they get a lot of salary cap space. And really the only guys you can project long term from the back court for this team right now are Josh Giddy and Kobe White. Even Iodumu as good as he is, you know, could be a potentially a trade candidate down the road. Kevin Herder, his deal is up. I could see him resigning, but as far as guys like Javon Carter, Lonzo Ball, I don’t see them in the long-term plans past 2026. And that is why you can’t just say, “Oh, they got a lot of guards. we’re gonna pass on a Jace Richardson or we’re gonna pass on a Jagor Devin who is a guy who’s buzzing with a lot of teams around the league. Yeah. Um so that’s just uh again month out a lot of twists and turns a lot of speculation but that’s kind of where things stand as of today. Listen, Casey, you got me sitting on the edge of my seat with that information because I think we have been really connected on so many ways when we do this by the horns podcast and we appreciate all of our viewers that are watching right now on CHSN’s YouTube page. And if you’re listening to us, wherever you get your pod, we appreciate it. But I mentioned that me and KC are in alignment because the names of Derek Queen and Jor Deine, like those are two guys with the Bulls at that 12 spot. just depending on what that situation presents for them if they are available. Maybe Assa New if he’s available. It really puts things in an interesting spot. But I believe that New will be going before we get to the 12th overall pick where the Bulls are just because he’s just that damn good. I really like Assa New and um I spoke on this on the Chicago lead yesterday, the day uh actually Memorial Day when we had that show and as we record this on Tuesday, May 27th and it’s also wild to think that it’s May 27th, KC. We just need that that weather to catch up with the actual date because we want it to be officially summertime. But you’re looking at this Bulls team and going with fit over need and best player available which is interesting because when I bring up the names of especially a Jaguar I mean from from BYU he’s a guy at 69 is not lacking in confidence at all. Like if you listen to him speak and we were able to to tap in with him during media availability during the draft combine. There were a couple of times when he was speaking Casey when I was speak uh interviewing him and talking with him. He was speaking in the first person and I’m like oh okay that that kind of caught me off guard a little bit but it it breeds and it really lives in the confidence that he has for himself and you have to expect that right for a guy that is Russian that you know moved over to Spain to play for Real Madrid. He’s with Real Madrid, even though he didn’t really truly play with Real Madrid. Played some preseason games and played one game with him and then had to make the jump from European basketball at the pro level to BYU and playing for Kevin Young and playing some big time basketball in the Big 12. So, if you don’t carry yourself with a sense of confidence or a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in on yourself, I’m not sure if you’re going to be able to be successful, let alone make it to the NBA. Now, you don’t have to be bolsterous or arrogant with your confidence. Some guys are a little more humble with their confidence or arrogance. Some guys are just outwardly just very, you know, open with who they are and speaking on the game. But Demean is a dude that does not lack in that area. And when you look at him at 69 and what he can be, I know a lot of people want to make the comparisons to Josh Giddy and just who he is, but I think the difference between Deme and Josh Giddy is that you can play Demean off the ball from watching him at BYU and what he’s able to do. And I was listening to him on the Ringer uh Bald on Liipod and he’s speaking and he’s saying that he doesn’t consider himself a point guard and then really challenged the host and listeners like can you name the point guard for the Boston Celtics and he’s like no you can’t name the point guard because they don’t have a point guard. So he considers himself more of a playmaker than a point guard so off the ball with how the this Bulls team wants to play. if he’s available, I wouldn’t be surprised if they do select Deme. But again, kind of like New Casey, as you mentioned with Deme, that that name is rising as one of the hotter names that we have as we uh or a month out from the draft. And you know how those things go when that that hot name starts to rise on those mock draft boards. You going to you’re going to hear that name maybe selected in the top five or top seven picks. Yeah, I actually I mean again this is early and we got a month to go so it’s going to take more twists and turns but Cam I actually would be surprised if Dean is is there at 12. I mean right now his buzz has kind of got him climbing and Queen’s buzz as of right now is kind of going the other way and now how much of a slide will that be? Because you know initially he was projected as top five maybe a top six pick. Again, it’s too early to speculate, but uh the thing about the mean that I completely agree with you is like you if he is there at 12, you could see the Bulls, you know, envisioning him as a fit alongside Josh Giddy and kind of like these multiple ball handlers just, you know, doesn’t matter who’s got it, you push, bring it up. Just guys who can make plays either on or off the ball. Again, generously speaking, the model that we can project Arturish Carnish’s vision to be given that postseason press conference is the Indiana Pacers. And whereas the Indiana Pacers do have a bonafide point guard and main ball handler, they also have just wave after wave of two-way wing players that just keep coming at you. And um you know, to me, Dean kind of projects, you know, you could call him a point guard, you can call him a point forward, whatever you want. He’s a basketball player. And um I think the biggest takeaway that we need to make here is the Bulls are going to stay true to most teams philosophy of taking the best player available. They’re not going to get hung up on, oh, we’re heavy on guards, light on front court. No, they’re going to they’re going to do their draft work, slot their board, and whoever’s at top their board when number 12 comes up, that’s going to be the pick regardless of what position he plays. Yeah, no doubt. And speaking of just a team that comes at you and weighs in the Indiana Pacers, like it’s just really tough to face a team like that that has multiple guys that can dribble, pass, and shoot. Like we’re seeing in the playoffs, and we’ll touch on that a little briefly when we get to the conference finals discussion on the podcast, Casey. But yeah, I’m with you. When you have a guy at 69 that is versatile but then also can be able to get out on the wing, can rebound and push in transition and can playmate. Like his passing skills for me is uh underrated when you look at what he averaged assist wise in the Big 12. I think he was fourth in assists in the league and um averaged around like closer to five assists I want to say for his long season at BYU. And he’s he’s a young guy, right? And it moves it towards you know what the Bulls are, you know, are and that’s a young team. So at 19 um for him to be able to come into a situation with this Bulls team with a little bit of pro experience, he’s not just coming from high school one year at the collegiate level and then to the NBA. He understands how the inner workings of a professional organization and organization uh goes about their business and you know for him to slide in would be nice for this Wolves team. I I didn’t bring this up on the pod last week, KC, but when we were speaking briefly about Derrick Queen, and I’ve been watching more of his game, I’m not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but this comparison I’m going to make, and I want to get your thoughts on it. He reminds me of a newer age Elton Brand. And you remember Elton Brand with this Bulls team, the Bulls drafting him back in the 1999 NBA draft. Um and and when you look at Elden Brand, rookie of the year, was a 2010 guy, had a very long NBA career. And coming out of Duke, you didn’t expect him to have that type of career. But when you look at the comparisons with Brand and Derrick Queen, two guys that are not overly athletic, but just knew how to score the basketball, were great with their positioning. Basketball IQ was there. And that’s why I say the new age Elen Brand because you’re seeing Derrick Queen with his ability to step out and hand the basketball from the perimeter more just because that’s just what the game requires of you now, no matter what position that you play. He brings that type of skill set to the NBA. But again, that’s where the the kind of bad and I don’t want to say bad like it’s a bad thing for Queen, but just uh the fit doesn’t work with this Bulls team and how they play and how they want to get up and down. I just want to hear your thoughts on that comparison with Derek Queen Elton Brandon. Is he the new age Elton Brand? Well, I love that comparison because I like old school comparisons. And and by the way, by the way, Stevie Franchise would like a word because it was co- rookie of the year. You know that. My bad. Stevie Franchise. I apologize, man. Look, one of the best ball handlers and dudes out when it comes to the NBA, man. So, my bad, Steve Franchise. Co-ookie of the year. Yeah, ED was uh was a heck of a player. Um, and yeah, I mean that that the point you make about Queen, you know, I like that comp, but you regardless if you have that comp, the point that you want to make is like the Bulls are less hung up on positional fit and more on philosophical fit. And so, I mean, that’s what the question you got to ask yourself. We don’t know the answer to it, but like if he is there at 12, does he fit with the way you want to play uh stylistically? And you can say, okay, well, Vu uh is old and and slow, but no, man. Vu is a very quick decision maker. Yeah, he fit right into from that. He fit perfectly from that philosophical uh switch. He he fit in the half court, slow it down with Demar, you speed it up. V had his best year of his three years as a bull last year. So yeah, I you can say V is an athletic or is a plotter, whatever. I I disagree. I think he’s a very quick decision maker. He’s a great trail guy and obviously a way better shooter than Queen. So you have that pick and pop option and trail option. So again, we don’t know the answer to this. We’re just raising the questions right now, but it’s a good question to ask like if Queen is there at 12, are the philosophical fit concerns, do they do they outweigh just making the pick of a clearly a skilled player? And we don’t want to make this turn into like a queen bashing or a hater. He’s a great player, right? Exactly. He’s going to have a good NBA career. It’s just, you know, where does he fit? And that’s a question I know the Bulls are asking as well as other teams, particularly with, as I mentioned, how he tested athletically at the combine. Yeah. six in and averaged just over a block a game at Maryland along with, you know, the rebounds and the points. He was one of the best freshman and also big men in the nation at Maryland. So, it’s not like, you know, oh, like to your point, Casey, we’re not having Derek Queen bashing. We’re Please do not misinterpret what we’re saying. But in terms of just the phil philosophical fit with this Bulls team, I think you could go another route other than Derrick Queen with this team and how you want to play. And Derek Wayne, I think for me, and I said this maybe about a month ago, Casey, as we finished up with the uh the college basketball season and we got into just draft talk, I thought he was and still believe that he’s going to be like a top seven pick. Um I know that, you know, there’s a lot of smoking mirrors as it comes to any draft on the professional sports level, right? You’re going to have guys that, you know, quote unquote have their stock rise or drop. Uh but he’s going to be a dude that that for sure will add to a team wherever he’s going to be drafted. So, some some potentially good options for this Bulls team at 12. Um, there was a little chatter of people thinking that the Bulls will move up in a trade in the draft. I just can’t see that happening because of they don’t have a lot to offer and then looking at this draft, there are a lot of teams that don’t want to give up their positions in this draft. So, we’ll just kind of throw that that talk to the side and leave that for for some other people out there. KC. Yeah, I mean the B, you know, Mavericks need a stop gap point guard starter. So, you know, Lonzo Ball for the number one pick. Who says no? No, I’m just kidding. There it is. Exactly. Cuz somebody’s going to take it and run with it. You know, Casey Johnson, CHSM Bulls insider says that Lonzo Ball to the mass number one overall pick. There’s the trade right there. Just stop. Stop people because we know how you work out there in the social media streets. All right, Casey. Let’s move it forward to some guys that were uh drafted in the later lottery and also the later first round and also second round of the NBA when they came out in the NBA draft. And speaking of the allNNBA teams, because that was announced last weekend, you have some names, the heavy hitters for sure, the usual names, the usual suspects like Giannis Antompo, Nicole Jokic, Jason Tatum once again on the AllNBA team, but also a couple of names in Shay Gil Alexander and Donovan Mitchell that showed up and showed out, man. But you have, and this is where you get to some of those names that were either late lottery, late first round, or second round picks. I have to bring up the name and Jaylen Bronson, right? Second round pick when he came out of Villanova, second team allNBA. Anthony Edwards, LeBron James, Steph Curry. So, the the older guard still hanging on getting the representation of that older guard in the second team allNBA. Evan Mobley as well, second team allNBA. And then third team, you have Kate Cunningham, Carl Anthony Towns, Tyrese Hallebertton, Jaylen Williams, and James Harden. So, when you look at those lists of names on those teams, did the NBA get it right? Because from my perspective and my view it view of it, excuse me. I believe they really got it right. Maybe with the exception of Evan Mobley, it’s kind of tough to see a guy win all defensive player of the year and be slotted into the second allNBA team. But, you know, you can’t discredit, you know, or discount Nicole Yokic and what he was able to do in Yiannis to the Koopo. Yeah. I mean, like who you taking off that first team? I mean, that’s the issue. I think they got the first team right. You could maybe argue um you know obviously Cleveland’s also being recognized for regular season team success with Mitchell on the first team and and Moy on second team. You know um I did not have a ballot this year. I’ve had ballots in the past. Um I I personally did factor when I when I did have a ballot. I I I would always factor team success as a major component to my selection process. So I don’t hate that either. Um, you know, the Cape Cunningham one is is a tough one because um, you know, you can make a case for him in the second team. I mean, to me, the the Pistons were one of the best stories in the NBA this season and he was clearly the engine that drove that team. But then you always have to ask, okay, if he’s on the second team, will you be taking off? Um, but that’s that’s I overall I think they got the 15 pretty solid pretty pretty I don’t think there are any glaring emissions. Um, love to see Jaylen uh on that second team. Again, team success a big part of that. So, um I’m pretty good with it overall. Uh any glaring omissions from your perspective, Cam, or not? Not not too much. I think the one thing about these first, second, and third team all NBAs is you’re going to have guys that are quote unquote snubbed out of this thing that don’t get selected at all or should be first team or should be second team or should have made third team. But I love that you said, Casey, when you had a vote with these allNBA teams, that you factored in team success because that’s always a big component for me, whether it’s these all defensive teams or all NBA teams or individual awards is how did you directly impact team success? And for all of these guys on this list on these allNBA teams, they directly impacted their team success. Because if you’re looking at the names and who they are, especially when you look at that first team, these guys are in either the top three, possibly top four of their respective conference as a team standings and record-wise, right? So, you’re looking at Aiannis or Nicole Joic or Shay Gilchis Alexander, Donovan Mitchell or Jason Tatum. They are one of the main reasons why, if not the main reason why their team is competing for a top three spot in their respective conference. So you have to make sure that not only that the numbers are there from an individual side, but also the team aspect, the wins are there, but then also how they impact the winning around them in terms of the other guys, right? I think Donovan Mitchell is a great example of that with not only him being able to keep up his individual performance and just being one of the best guards in the league, but also you saw the growth of Darius Garland and him becoming a firsttime all-star this past year. Evan Mobley who really unlocked some things to to the help of Kenny Atinson but of course of Evan Mobley and becoming all defensive and then also being second team allNNBA. Jared Allen another name. So I think Donovan Mitchell is one of the best examples of that when you think about individual success, team success and really impacting the other guys around them and allowing them to shine too. So I’m with you Casey. I think the NBA got it right on this one. K Cunningham has a strong choice and and really resume to be on that second team, but who do you take off? Like, do you take off do you take off Brunson from the second team? I mean, do you take off one of the old guards and LeBron James or Steph Curry? It’s it’s really tough to make that decision. I don’t think you can do that. Really, some notable names that have that have had some all NBA love in the past, and this speaks to the team success argument are Devin Booker and Trey Young. Both had very solid seasons. Not on there. Um but you know their teams were pretty underwhelming this year. Um you know one one name I did hear some complaining about again probably honoring team success with Shangun with the Rockets and obviously their great season. My my feeling is as good of a season as he had that to me he might be a a little young and b that to me was a collect the the sum being greater than the individual parts. uh you know Van Vleet obviously the engine for that team but and you know I to me a big part of that team success was the coach I mean he’s kind of the the personality of that team um so you know Shangon obviously got a lot of votes and was close but um you know those are probably the three biggest names I I can maybe see making an argument for but I’m I’m pretty good with the 15 that the the voters the voters got. No doubt about that Casey. Okay. And the one name on these 15 that were released for the AllNBA got the highest individual honor of the league and they give it out every single season. It is the Michael Jordan most valuable player and Shay Gildas Alexander of the Oklahoma City Thunder is this year’s recipient for the 2024 25 season. We can take this conversation with SGA so many different ways because we just talked about team success. Well, you can check that box for SGA. 68 wins for the Oklahoma City Thunder. Best record in the NBA. You want to talk numbers? Well, he’s a dude that literally can score. Defensively, he was able to get some things as well, and you could make a case for him being maybe defensive player of the year. This dude has had so many 30-point games, 40point games, clutch moments, and he was able to be durable within all of that throughout an 82 game season. We saw him early on at the United Center and this was very early on in the season. Wasn’t one of the best Shay Gildas Alexander games. And just to be honest, the Bulls and also the Thunder shot poorly in that game. It was a really rough one. saw SGA really kind of turn it on in the second half and and some of the fourth quarter, but it’s just how he plays KC and we’re seeing it in the Western Conference Finals, especially last night in game four against the Minnesota Timberwolves where he just can get his shot anywhere at any time, at any angle, and it is so impressive. Yeah, I actually somebody uh some I was texting with somebody from the league last night that that I text with a lot when I’m watching games and they they they said confession time. I actually don’t always love watching SGA play because of his foul baiting. I was like well then you don’t like watching Jaylen Brunson play either. I mean they’re they’re masters or or James Harden or you know Deard Rose. I mean it’s like they’re masters at manipulating contact to get to the line. And to your point, his ability to either hurt you in the mid-range or get to the rim and obviously he’s got three three ball as well and and then get to the line. He’s just a multiaceted scoreer. Um, a couple things about the MVP and this to me is always one of the hardest awards this coach of the year because there’s always so many great candidates for both. Great point. Um, you know, first of all, let’s emphasize one thing. It’s a regular season award. So, take the playoff performances out. It’s a regular season award. I did not, again, like I said, I’ve had ballots in the past. I did not have one this year. I would have had a very hard time voting against Yokic given what he did this season. He had arguably his best season. I do think there’s some voter fatigue when it comes to him and and how many times he’s won the award. I’m glad you brought up the word durability. This not a knock against Joic because obviously an injury is out of his control, but I loved SGA’s availability for a 68- win team. that probably ultimately would have swayed me to SGA vote, but man, that Jokic season was something special. And when he’s out, I mean, you can just see how that thin that team is. And I know SGA is the star of the Thunder by a long shot, but they have a lot of depth, a lot of other very good players. And um Denver to me, it’s amazing they got to where they got this season because Jokic was basically carrying that team down the stretch. Um yeah, and what a season he had. Um I know I’m kind of talking all over the place here. It was It was an impossible vote. And there is no wrong answer, by the way. If you voted Jokic, you’re right. If you voted SGA, you’re right. Um, I ultimately to put myself in a camp I like I said I probably would have given the n slight nod to SGA given the number of games he played. I believe he was at 78 or 79 and the 68 wins for the the Thunder. Yeah, no doubt. I was on the side of SGA last year Casey essentially being NBA MVP last year and I did it. Right. And it’s it’s it’s on a certain level similar to what we discussed about Alper and Shangon, right? I mean, you want to see these guys not just have like a, you know, uh, one times type season and they’re getting some of the highest honors in the NBA. The biggest test and one of the biggest tests in the league, especially from an individual standpoint, whether it comes to numbers or impact and winning, is if you can follow it up that next season and do it again and have some consistency with that. And so, I think for a lot of people out there, that was the question about Shay. And I get it. I understand it. Um, and it was Shay and Nicole Yokic last year. It was Shay and Nicole Joic this year. Could very well be Shay and Nicole Joic next year and the year after that just because they have no signs of slowing down, especially Jokic and him historically having a better season this year than he did last year when he won NBA MVP. And I believe that there’s some voter fatigue placed into that when you have a guy that’s won MVP through the last four years, too. um you want to see a new face come out of it and just the storylines of it with Jay Gil just Alexander and Oklahoma City and just who he is and just I think you factor in the brand off the court is part of it as well. I’m not sure if that sways voters out there not speaking to you particularly Casey but yeah there is an entire thing about this when it comes to NBA MVP and making sure that it’s not just a numbers thing or team aspect. there’s a part of an off off the court uh uh situation with it as well. But when you look at Shay this year and just how he’s been able to maintain excellence, I think that’s always impressive, especially with the pressure that he had coming into this season because it was all eyes on Shay. Okay, that was that was cute what you did last year. Like, yeah, you were in the running for NBA MVP and were behind Joic, but can you follow it up and do it again this year? and he was able to do it and do it on a massive level. So, Shay Gilus Alexander 2024 2025 NBA MVP welld deserved and he is really leading this Thunder team to another NBA Finals birth. And the last time that we saw Oklahoma City in the NBA Finals, Casey, you got to go all the way back to what was it 2010, right? 2010 against the Miami Heat, the LeBron, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bos Heedle version of the Miami Heat. And this team watching them last night, you’re like, I don’t know who the hell can beat these guys. Like they are with the exception of game three, which was weird on a lot of in a lot of different areas just from OKC. It felt like they just cruised into that thing. Turnovers, bad shots, all of that. But they got back on track in game four last night against Minnesota and made Anthony Edwards, some people want him to be the face of the NBA and doesn’t want it, but they made him look below average. Not just average, but below average. Now picked it up a little more in the second half, but Anthony Edwards, Julius Randle did not truly have an impact in game four, but it was Shay Yojis Alexander who put up a 40piece in a desperately needed win for Oklahoma City. And now as the series will shift to game five on I believe Friday. Is it Friday? Thursday or I believe uh Thursday or Friday for Oklahoma City for game five that they have a chance to secure their spot in the NBA finals. Yeah. And it’ll be the first since 2012. Uh not 2010 but yeah 2012. Yeah. Um but the Heles uh and I’ll just say like their depth just is astounding. I mean there there was you know one game where like Isaiah Joe barely played. I think he came in uh you know to mop up some minutes and next game he’s like sixth man. I mean it’s like they have Matt Dagnal has so many Dagal has so many options. I I believe I just called him by his wrong name by the way so I apologize. Um he has so many options, so much depth. It’s like so many guys can come in and hit a shot. It’s astounding. And then obviously you’ve got Alice Caruso in the perfect role that disrupting force off the um uh bench and uh defensively. And then, you know, with Shay being the leader and Jaylen Williams emerging as an all-star, I just don’t I I’ve been saying it for a while. I don’t see any team beating them not only this series, but next series as well. Um, so, you know, Mark Dagno could have won coach of the year again. You know, he was in the running, didn’t win it. Um, his ability to push the right buttons. Um, and have that team play so consistently all season long is a credit to him and the organization. Sam Prey obviously wins executive of the year. It’s just a well-run franchise top to bottom. And um you know, I I know personally having spoken to Alex about this when the Bulls were laid in Oklahoma in in the season in Oklahoma City, uh how special he knows this opportunity is and how special opportunity of this team is for him. So, it’d be great to see him win another chip, too. So, there’s still basketball to be played. I’m not going to start taking my victory lap on my prediction yet. I knew that was coming. I knew that was coming, Casey. I knew I knew that was coming and I was gonna kind of like hide my head a little bit, you know, for people watching. Podcast Cam. Okay, we’re going to have Edgar pull up the clips and we’re going to go from there. You know what? And I just have to stand proudly in me choosing wrongly with this series and potentially uh Eastern Conference. You know, it’s a seven game series for a reason, but it’s looking very bleak for the Minnesota Timberwolves in that series. And it could look bleak for the New York Knicks because they’re going to face off against the Indiana Pacers in game four uh tonight at Gainesbridge Fieldhouse. And I had this Knicks team Casey after the first two games dead in the water. I thought, okay, well I it would have been nice to go seven games, but you lose you drop the first two games at home at Madison Square Garden with all the energy that you had from Knicks Nation and the city of New York and just everything. I mean, it was, you know, like a, you know, Academy Awards or, you know, music award type of event with all the celebrities that were sitting corside. They were in the building for games one and game two. And Indiana just came and took the breath and took the heart out of New York City. And going back home, I’m like, “Oh, well, this is going to end in a sweep, unfortunately.” like all of that, you know, brick storylines and a repeat of last year’s matchup between the Pacers and the Knicks and the old 90s rivalry just go ahead and throw it in the trash because the Knicks are about to get swept. And then you go to game three and this Knicks team just becoming zombies. They just bounce back and once again another 20point deficit that they face. They come back and they win the game. What KC for me, we’re basketball guys, but some things don’t make sense. Can you try and make it make sense for this Knicks team up how they did it? Well, a couple things. Uh, I mean, I They did this obviously with Jaylen Brunson in foul trouble. I mean, Cat obviously had had the huge game offensively. That makes it even more impressive, I would say. And I was just quickly checking N Smith’s um injury status for tonight. He’s officially listed questionable. That to me, even though he returned from that ankle injury, that to me took the wind out of the Pacers sales. They do have moments as good as they are offensively where they struggle to score and for whatever reason uh to me their offense dried up down the stretch and I know Nay Smith came back um you last game but you know to me that injury looks like it’s pretty severe and it could affect them moving forward. This is why this this series is by no means over and I was with you. Pacers go up 20. I was almost gonna start taking the victory lap on my prediction then, but Nicks, there’s just something about this team that they’re so resilient, they’re so tough, they’re obviously molded in the in the light in the image of their coach. Um, and uh and Jaylen Brunson has that same demeanor and leadership style Josh Hart as good of a rebounder for pound-for-pound as there is in this league. Um, so that to me is what it comes down to. Uh, Indiana’s got to find its way offensively again. I think they will be able to do so in game four tonight at home, but that’s why they play the games. And the Nay Smith injury is something um to to monitor surely moving forward. Yeah, for sure. And speaking of moving forward, it’ll be interesting to see if Mitchell Robinson will start a game for the New York Knicks tonight because he replaced Josh Hart in that starting five. And it feels like that Tibs will go with that type of u strategy with having Mitchell Robinson with a double big lineup with him and Carl Anthony Towns in the front court for the Knicks. But I think it also when you go back to game three, KC, it really helped Josh Hart kind of have extra legs as you look at those those rebounds that he grabbed for the Knicks in game three. Um there were massive rebounds. I mean his last two were really game saving and let’s just be honest, season saving rebounds because he doesn’t get those. He’s not in that that position or just not on that floor and providing that type of resistance. You’re looking at a Knicks team that will be down 03 heading into potentially getting swept tonight. But that’s not the reality for the New York Knicks or New York City. So, they have another opportunity to uh get things right and steal two games from Indianapolis. And just please basketball guys, just allow that to happen. Let’s just have one of these series go seven games in the conference finals because we need it. We need it, KC. We definitely need it. Yeah. And that’s why I’m I’m looking forward to uh these conference finals being over so we can make our predictions for the next series and I can be right again. I’m just kidding. I I might have to sit that one out, Casey. Just Oh, no, you’re in. Hey, also I predicted both these game series would go seven games. So, you know, I can’t take too much of victory lap even if I get both uh victories. Let’s see how they play out. We’re getting a little ahead of ourselves. These are I always say like people think, oh, 200, it’s over. No, man. These series, anyone who who’s experienced playoff basketball knows these are just battles of attrition and so many things can happen. I mean, knee smith injury is another example of how things can turn in an instant. And again, we’ll see, you know, he was able to return from it in game three, but not totally be himself. We’ll see what his status is and his his uh effectiveness is moving forward because that’s a significant uh situation obviously for Indiana. Yeah, no doubt. All eyes will be on that situation with Aaron E. Smith and the Indiana Pacers. So, you have game four going down tonight inside of Gainesbridge Fieldhouse Knicks Pacers. Game five tomorrow night between the Thunder and the Timberwolves in OKC. So potentially by tomorrow night, we could have one person or one team placing themselves in the NBA finals. But look, if we can get seven games, I’ll be great in both series. But I’m just going to be humble about this because the basketball guys have a certain way of humbling if you start to make these predictions and get ahead of yourself. So I’ll just remain and just enjoy the game. All right, that’s going to do it for this edition of the By the Horns podcast presented by Toyota. Toyota has more all-wheel drive for four-wheel drive vehicles than any other brand. So find yours and shine on Toyota. Let’s go places. He is none other than KC Johnson. I’m Cam Smith. We’ll talk to you and see you next week. Take care everybody. [Music]

With the NBA Draft just a month away, Cam Smith and Bulls insider K.C. Johnson break down the latest intel from Bulls draft workouts and rising prospects. Will Chicago target a guard or a frontcourt piece at No. 12? They dive deep into the cases for Egor Demin, Derik Queen, and Asa Newell—and debate fit vs. philosophy in the Bulls’ draft approach.

Plus, the duo reacts to the All-NBA selections, Shea Gilgeous-Alexander’s MVP win, and what his historic season means for OKC’s Finals hopes. They also check in on the Knicks-Pacers and Timberwolves-Thunder showdowns and discuss who has the edge as the Conference Finals continue.

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📱: 𝗗𝗼𝘄𝗻𝗹𝗼𝗮𝗱 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗮𝗽𝗽
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🖥️ : 𝗩𝗶𝘀𝗶𝘁 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝘄𝗲𝘀𝗯𝗶𝘁𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 – bit.ly/3D4PDaR

📱: 𝗦𝗼𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀
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