NBA Draft 2025 Prospects: Atlanta Hawks range, Rasheer Fleming, Carter Bryant, Cedric Coward, etc.

NBA Draft 2025 Prospects: Atlanta Hawks range, Rasheer Fleming, Carter Bryant, Cedric Coward, etc.

On today’s show, it is part two with myself and Bryce Hendrickx talking all things NBA draft and it’s coming up right now. You are Locked On Hawks, your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. Hello friends, welcome to episode 1988 of the Locked on Hawks podcast. I am your host Brad Rolland coming to you deep in the night on a Tuesday into Wednesday and this is part two of two with myself and Bryce Hendrickx. So if you missed part one, it should be available in this same podcast feed right now. So start there to have the full linear flow of the conversation, but part two is available right now. We’ll dive right back here with Bryce and myself talking about the NBA draft, the Hawks, and everything in between. I did promise you that we would talk about uh one of your guys, Rasheed Fleming. So let’s go ahead and do that now before I forget if that’s okay with you. Absolutely. He’s very popular in hawk circles, too. I I get question about him all the time. If you don’t know who he is, he is the St. Joseph’s forward. I think he’s 21ish years old. Um, monster measurements, all that stuff. So, I will clear out clear the decks. I asked you, I was like, “Hey, is there anybody you want to talk about?” And you said immediately Rashir Fleming. So, Rasheed Fleming 13. Is that too high? Like, it’s 22. Like, what do what do you make of him? And also, what do you like and maybe not like about Rashir Fleming? I mean, 13 for me is great. like I I’d happily take him at 13. Now whether that would be good strategy based on consensus, I I don’t know. But for I mean honestly that’s over even I will probably reference that at some point. Uh but it could be overblown. If the Hawks think he’s the best player, you can’t just be like, “Hey, we love this guy, but we’re going to wait nine picks.” Like he might he might go 16 and then then you’re out of luck. So take the guy you want to take at 13. Yeah, absolutely. And my my my quick sell for Rashir Fleming is this is a guy that helps you win playoff games. Um he is uh he has one of my favorite individual skills in the class which is his paint maneuverability on defense. Um he just his ability to stifle uh a drive guarding pick and roll recover to his man. Oh, they threw a skip and actually that guy’s attacking a closeout. Stop the closeout, recover back to his man and block the shot. uh like he did that like all the time and that’s just my my one of my personal individual greatest loves in basketball. Now there’s some question as to you know is he a four? Is he a five? Is he a three? I don’t think he’s a three to to to to jump that off the the way. He’s he’s a pretty limited offensive player. Um I think he can really make shots. I I really like the the mechanics uh even though they’re kind of funky. Um he just has a really high release and he’s confident. Like for me, I’m all in on a guy who’s just he will take them. Like he might have some Jay Crowder, you know, 29% from three on high volume seasons, but you can never just fully leave him open because there might be a game where he hits five. Like I think he could be that type of shooter, but I also think there’s a chance that he’s just like a really consistently great shooter. Like I think people underrate sometimes especially you know when these guys play in in you know mid to low major leagues or whatever like the importance of improvement track record and and what that says about someone and and their ability to add basketball skills both hard and soft. And he got better in just about every statistical category over his three years uh in a in a way that his game’s not similar but in a way that was similar to like Jaylen Williams. And that was one of my big sales. I was really high on Jaylen Williams. Um, and one of my big sales was this is a guy who just got better all the time. Like it just shows an innate ability. They were both young for their class, too. Like Rashir Fleming is I think he’s 21, but he’s like a young like he’s young for his class and he’s just he’s just big. He’s athletic. He he he plays really hard defensively and he has that really elite paint maneuverability. There’s some big questions. The the closeouts are really really bad. Like he really cannot close ground going towards the perimeter. That’s why I don’t think he’s a three. He’s not a great ball handler. He can take one dribble and go dunk, which is great. Um, but I think he’s a lot more of a, you know, a kind of cutter, uh, you know, stand in the corner, three-point shooter, and then every once in a while some gadget plays here and there. And that he is a bit scheme specific. It’s why I can only get so high on him, right? Like I don’t think he can exist in a scheme where he has to make like 0.5 second decisions all the time. Like he’s not a future warrior and and that’s fine. What he would be great at is being exactly what the Hawks need, which is, hey, we’re going to have Jaylen Johnson push the ball in transition. We’re gonna have Trey Young running high pick and roll. We need you to stand in the corner and know when to when to spot up, when to lift, and when to cut. And if you do those three things, we’re going to have someone who’s going to put the ball right where you need it all the time. And I think he could potentially be great at that while also really providing a type of defense that gets underrated because he’s not just gonna he’s not just going to lock up the other team’s best guy. though I do think there’s some lowhanging fruit to improve his uh his maneuverability on the perimeter. Um but he’s just going to provide that secondary rim protection. He’s going to help out someone like Onka Congloo and he’s going to allow you to play, you know, more complex defensive schemes while also making the job easier for your best players on offense. Those guys play playoff minutes, especially when you consider that he’s not he’s not weak. He’s not contact averse and uh he is, you know, every once in a while he’ll just out tough dudes for stuff like he will just get some rebounds where he just he shoveves someone out of the way and and we’ll just go up and get it with one hand or, you know, he’ll get uh he’ll he’ll make a contested catch and take a pound dribble and and finish through someone’s chest. Like those things like are really matter in terms of being role players in the NBA. And you’ve seen that consistently in the playoffs. There’s not a ton of skinny, contact diverse guys playing in the conference finals or the finals. It’s it’s a lot of guys who are tough and willing to to use their strength and and weight while also being able to make shots and contribute defensively. Yeah. I mean, if you buy the shooting improvement and it was a big one in year three and that’s you know that could be good and bad like you said like there are some times where it’s like oh is this just because it’s his last year in college? Is this real? It’s one but if you buy it number one and it was really good. I think he had 64% true shooting this year. He made he made his threes. took him. Like you said, that’s it’s a really intriguing package. I’m with you. Not a guy that I love like the feel off offensively. He’s not a guy that I’m like want to make a ton of decisions like ball handling, all those things, but like low usage potentially, but also can make shots physical, switchable defensively, and you know, scheme versatile. And you just can’t have too many of these like big physical forwards. Like I say that all the time, but you just having more of those guys is not a bad thing. Like I just think you want to have those players in general. Um, and also I mentioned the age and so did you, but he’s uh I just I looked it up while you were talking. He’s five months younger. Sorry, five months older than Derek Queen and Derek Queen was a one and done and Fleming played three years. So to illustrate your point, he’s Queen’s an older freshman, but Fleming is a young junior. I I believe I I could be wrong, but I believe he will be just about the same age Brandon Miller was when Brandon Miller was drafted. So that’s about the same thing. So I mean it’s he’s not super young. That does matter. But he isn’t like a old junior. Like there are guys like for instance De Clifford is like two and a half years older than Rash. Like different different archetypes, but you know what I mean? Like in this class there are some older guys but he’s more in the middle than on the older side. Like he’s the same age as Danny Wolf. Another thing like Danny Wolf is, you know, another player we can talk about if you want to. 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As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/lockedonba. That’s betterhelp betterhp.comLockedonba. I want to go back to one guy we did talk about before that I meant to ask you a follow-up on and I’m a bad host so I didn’t uh earlier in this this discussion and that’s Carter Bryant because Carter Bryant is another guy who seem who you already laid it out perfectly like is rising seemingly. Um, it makes sense he’s an athletic potential two-way forward and look those players are very valuable if you can get them. Uh, I didn’t sense in your tone, maybe I’m wrong, that you love Carter Bryant, but maybe maybe I’m wrong about this. What do you think of him? Because I think he’s on my list at 13 for sure. He he might be gone by then. Uh, but certainly would be in my mind an appropriate choice. It’d be fine with me if you took him at 13. I wouldn’t like do a dance party. But what do you think of Carter Bryant? You know, Carter Bryan is is someone I’ve had a really really hard time with in this draft, and I’m not I’m not afraid to admit that. Um uh I didn’t see him coming. Like like when I watched his UIBL stuff, I was like, “Oh yeah, he’ll be like good in three years.” And uh that’s kind of what it felt like watching his freshman year at Arizona. I was there was never a time where like like there were some some media outlets that would hype him here and there and I’d be like, “Okay, like he has like a 12% usage rate.” Like those he was fine, but he didn’t he just didn’t do a lot of stuff. He took I can’t remember exactly the number, but like he he took like very few unassessed rim attempts on the whole season. Uh and he also, if you go back and watch, took very few unassisted rim attempts uh in UIBL. I like Bryant quite a bit because I think he is like a really really good defensive player. Like a really good defensive player. I think he is uh I I I did this on our next pod that’ll come out and it’ll probably have come out by the time you guys this it seems like. Like I don’t know. But um it it it’s on Carter Bryan and and a couple other you mentioned Nick Clifford and it’s on him and and as well and I I tried to use like I think we we use comparisons a lot offensively but we don’t I actually think they’re more valuable defensively because there are different types of defense but we don’t have like words to describe them all the time. He is like the OG Anobi type of defender where he is just big, he’s strong, he’s long. Uh he’s not quite as like smothering at the point of attack, but OG people forget when he came out of Indiana had pretty tight hips and was was kind of stiff and he’s really developed his lower body flexibility and that’s part of what what has made him, you know, arguably the best one-on-one defense defensive player in the NBA. Um and I think Carter Bryant has that in him to be that. He I I wish he got up and was a little bit more aggressive on the ball, but it was pretty clear this year at Arizona that he was out there to do his job and that’s all he was out there to do. So, he wasn’t trying to get up in pressure, but what he did do is whatever the team asked him to do. Uh, they needed him to step out and hedge. Yes, sir. I’m going to step out and hedge. And they needed him to fly around on the backline. He did that. Even though I don’t think I I don’t think that’s what his best skill is. I think he’s actually a pretty poor low man right now. Other than the fact that he can just get up really high off the ground and he has really long arms. But um I I think what he’s what he what what he will be best at in the NBA is if you need someone to guard a Luca or you need someone to guard a LeBron, there is a 20% chance that Carter Bryant is one of the top guys in the league to potentially do that. And you take that chance fairly high, even with the caveat that being a role player in the NBA is really hard. And whether you realize it or not, most role players in the NBA are really good scorers. And Carter Bryant is not a good scorer. He they had to be at some point. You know what I mean? Like and he just has never had to be. Like he was he shot 42% at the rim in EBL. Like people don’t understand like just how mindn numbingly bad that is for like a like a oneanddone prospect. Like he he cannot take a second triple comfortably. All every time he dribbles, it’s to either give the ball to someone else or it’s to take a a pull-up jumper, which he is not particularly good at. The jumper looks really good and I think he will be a good shooter in time. I don’t think it’s as good as some of the numbers might indicate this year. He took very few. He turned down a lot of pretty open ones to move the ball. U I I think he’s going to take a real mentality shift and I really don’t like the the weight transfer as he kind of sits back on his hips, but I don’t want to get too into the the shot doctor nerd stuff. But offensively, he is very very limited. Like more limited than most NBA centers right now, probably. Um, and so you have to have a a situation around him where he can be the fifth guy on offense. And even that is harder than people realize. Like he can’t be the fifth guy who can also catch and attack a closeout like that. The difference between him and Rashir Fleming for me is I think Rashir Fleming can catch and attack a close out off a couple dribbles and go score or make a solid rate as a passer. I don’t think Carter Bryant can do that right now. He is very limited to being someone who can make spot-up shots, who can set good screens, but you know this the truth. He’s not like going to be a elite role threat because he’s not quite like the Aaron Gordon highf flyier and he’s not quite, you know, big enough of those top guys. You can be a good cutter. I think he’s really a really good cutter in scramble situations. Like he’s really smart and he has okay prop reception. It’s just there’s all these like intangible skills that I really like and the big hole is can he put the ball in the basket enough to to survive on an NBA court because the truth is there’s not a ton of room for Andre Robersonson’s in the league right now or Tony Allen. like as good as you are defensively, the the league is an arms race right now and it’s about getting guys who can be as good as possible defensively while still meeting that offensive threshold. And the real question is can Carter Bryant do that? I think it’s worth a swing, but it it it has to be with the understanding that there is a real real shot that he just really struggles to to get on the floor and play comfortable minutes. We want keep keep going on Bryant, but I did I I’ve looked at the numbers while you were talking and man, I am struck again and I’ve seen the numbers before and I’m looking at them again now. Like just the situation. You watch the film and you get it. You get why you alluded to it like he was asked to play a super small role in Arizona. It was a weird team overall. I watch a lot of college basketball. Like it was like they were their fans like why is there why are they not using him more? Like there was it was a question they had all year long. But he played 19 minutes a game. the man. He took less than two two-point shots per game in college this year. He took 4.8 field goal attempts per game. This is a potential lottery pick. You don’t ever see that. Even guys that were like bench players like you know one and done freshman who were six men, seventh man on the that does happen on college teams. They don’t take four shots a game at the college level like and go in the lottery like almost no one does that especially as a non- center like a non like you know common malawok type of center like a defensive you know ace kind of guy like I get it with Bryant I do get it but man the context in which you’re evaluating him is just so weird he averaged also I think he had a dead even assist turnover ratio but it was like one per game in both areas like he just didn’t have the ball he just didn’t do anything on offense. It was weird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean the the the thing that stands out statistically is he had like a 4.8 block rate and a 2.7 steel rate or something like that. Like those are the numbers that are good. No, defensively defensively I I have very little concern. I’m I’m going to be I mean there there’s obviously there are degrees in how good you are and you did a good job laying that out. Like not everybody’s going to be OJ. He he’ll be compared to that. I totally get why. I am no there are degrees of how good he might be defensively but obviously you were drafting him because of that side of the ball and offensively like he did shoot a decent percentage from three like I I get it the thought process and like I said I already said I would be fine with him at 13 but you you uh you said it great like you have to be understanding of what he is and what he isn’t and yeah it’s it’s kind of a swing because of the the talent level and the athleticism that he has and that you know again the 68 two-way forward thing is not a trope it’s a trope for a reason like it’s because everybody wants that guy but um he might be getting a little bit overdrafted based on what he’s proven so far, but that hey, it’s not really about what you’ve proven so far. It’s a combination of tools and what you can be, I suppose. Yeah. And and it’ll be really interesting. You know, I think not not to transition too much to to another guy, but I do think something that’s that’s interesting is it seems like teams in this range right now are really trying to figure out, okay, which 65 to 69 athletic forward do we like the most? Because another guy from my alma mater, Cedric Coward, is being mocked at nine to the Raptors. I was going to ask you about him no matter what because of the Washington State connection and also because there are Hawks fans that would crawl over hot coals to draft Cedric Coward. And I’m I don’t I don’t mean this in a negative way. I’m skeptical they’ve watched him a lot to be honest with you. I think it’s it’s probably the most of the highlight stuff in the Buzz because if you just look at like the the package of what Cedric Coward is potentially could be, I totally get it. It’s very very exciting. But hey, I mean you you did go you are a Washington State guy. I mean what what do you think? Because it’s he’s interesting in itself. Also, he also went to Duke. That was like a thing that was still possible like two weeks ago. Well, and what’s so funny is I I really do feel like the commitment to Duke like is the like solid big reason why he’s being talked about like this. They’re like, “Oh, what did John Shy see?” Um, I have never been so perplexed by the the like insane rise of a player. And that’s not because I don’t like coward. Uh, I mean, I would have been this is exactly the type of guy I would have been banging the drum like, man, sneaky guy at 22. Like, but that’s not going to happen anymore. It’s just not there. And and I will I will say one thing and I’ll let you go. It’s still weird like if you look at the kind of some of the consensus mocks like ESPN is like the most mainstream of mainstream boards. They still have him like in the low in like the mid to low 20s. So it’s not everybody and I don’t know if Gavon is just not in or whatever uh or Jeremy Woo whoever it’s going to but like it’s not everybody. There is actually a big split on Coward still but it’s just like at one point he was no no one had him going in the lottery and now it’s like half people half the people do half people don’t. It’s kind of it’s just an odd rise. Yeah. He’s getting the J Williams cops, by the way. You watch Jay Williams? He’s the one that’s getting the Jayla Williams comps. Yeah. Today was brought to you by Open Phone. If you’re running a business, you every miss call is money left on the table. Think about the last time you actually had an urgent need pressed for a plumber or a service provider. If they didn’t answer the phone the first time, did you wait? You probably didn’t. You probably moved on to something else. And that’s why you need Open Phone. Open Phone is the number one business phone system. It’s built to streamline and scale your customer communications all from an app on your phone or your computer. 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It is you pay to play basketball and now he’s, you know, he’s gonna make a million dollars to play basketball next year. So, for nothing else, kudos for that. Um, he played two years at Eastern Washington. I saw him live a couple times at Eastern Washington. Uh, at his first year, he was kind of like a a havoc creating bench player. Played about half the team’s minutes. He made shots from from deep and was really efficient inside but was not like a you know a crazy you know highlevel uh uh you know player for them. He was kind of a bit player on a good Eastern Washington team but a bit player on an Eastern Washington team does not usually project to be an NBA player. The year after he takes a pretty big step in usage is the best player on a good Eastern Washington team. And then only played uh six games this year. only one of those games against um you know real like solid competition and uh you know he was fine like good even I just I think he is so theoretical right now he is not actually a good defensive player right now um as much as I would like him to be he’s long and he’s tough and he’s smart and he has a he’s a really good rebounder like a really really good out of area rebounder but He is not his footwork is pretty inconsistent and pretty rough at times. His uh strength is not like like he’s not as strong in his upper body as he looks. Um he you know there are multiple times where he’s like you know contesting shots almost getting a hand on it like a dig or something and he just can’t get it all the way out because he’s just not strong enough. Um, and then offensively, like a lot of his offense comes from like Barkclays and postups and such. And he’s a good spot-up shooter. Uh, he’s a pretty good decision maker. He has operated a really complex offense, which the truth is, I think that’s what Shy saw in him. WSU this last year and Eastern the two years before ran an offense that was pretty similar to Dukes this year and that it was a lot it was movement based. there was a lot of screening uh and the wings were asked to be playmakers but also pick and pop screeners and and uh executing ghost actions and all this stuff. I think he saw that Coward could do that, was a good shooter, and kind of meet the baseline requirements of athleticism. And I think he kind of thought he would be like the better shooting Scion James of this next Duke team with Cameron Boozer, which is great, but Scion James is going to go in the 50s this year. And again, I like Coward and I would draft him probably in the mid20s or so with the idea that, hey, the development path is so weird. He’s pretty young for his class. He is 21 right now. He’ll his rookie season will be his age 22 season. He’s he’s like seven or eight months older than Fleming, I think, something like that. Um, but he is not yet a a like a like a good basketball player in the way that will help even like a like as a rookie him meet expectations like, you know, and some of it I I think some of it is like there’s like some weird shine. Like Jaylen Wells had a really good rookie season and obviously I love Jaylen Wells but like there is sometimes NBA teams get the jersey hive baby. I don’t know like it’s just it’s so weird because I’ve never I obviously want to root for a WSU guy but there’s just nothing I I personally really latch on to with Coward other than the really interesting development trajectory and almost treating him like a pre-draft guy. like, “Hey, we’re drafting this guy because he was gonna blow up at Duke and have like a neat Clifford X season at Duke.” I understand that, but you don’t draft that guy in the lottery. In my opinion, I think it’s I think it’s three things as to why. I’m not saying this is right. I think there’s three reasons why he’s blown up. One of them is what you already said about the developmental track and just the weirdness. He had good numbers at Washington State, tiny sample size. I get and also just like positional value potentially. There’s that aspect. Number two is that he he measured with 72 wingspan which of course is a big flashy number and people are really excited about that. I get why. Massively long arms. So just that’s just what like he has like the same stand reach as Cooper flag. It’s like crazy long arms. And then the third thing uh by all accounts from what I’ve heard I think people have even written this by now. He’s apparently had like two or three like ridiculous workouts in front of in front of people like in front of like not just like teams like media people even like and that’s good. good. I mean, if you have a a good day at a right time, like you can skyrocket. So, if you’re if you get um there are guys always, and this happens every year, there are guys when you get them in get them in a workout, if they blow you away, like you can’t unsee that. And there’s always this big debate. We could probably not have it today about like how much you care about individual workouts, how much you should care about individual workouts. Do they fool you more than they help you? Um, people in the league are very split on that in general, but it is hard to for teams to forget something like that if they see it in person and they’re blown away that sticks in people’s heads. Uh, so it might be real. Like I think Coward does have real upside. I I also think that your points are 100% reasonable like about how just I don’t I don’t use weird in a negative way, but just weird this whole thing is. It’s very odd. The path, the skill set, how little he’s played at the highest level. the transfer to Duke because I think is actually does matter to your point. Uh so I don’t know. I’m fascinated by him. I He’s the kind of guy I mean speaking of 13 because whatever. Uh would I fall on the floor and be upset about it? No. I also am not like you have to take this guy at 13. I’m not I’m not doing that either. So I Here here’s my question for you, Brad. Would you rather have him or Nick Clifford? I mean, what do I They’re just so different. Like Nick Clifford is like they’re just very different even players. Uh Nick Clifford’s way better at basketball right now. Like not even close. He’s also 23 years old and I I get it. Like I I love Nick Clifford to be honest with you, but I also like know I shouldn’t say I shouldn’t say no. I don’t expect the highest upside outcomes from Nick Clifford, but if you wanted to like if you were a team that was really trying to get some value out of out of a rookie contract, I think Nick Clifford would be a good investment in general. I think he’s a lot safer than Cedric Coward. Mhm. has higher upside. So, I get it. I think I would have those two pretty similar in and that I I would not be jumping up and down at 13. I’d be pretty happy at 22 with either. Yeah. 20 22 honestly like I I I know I know you said 20s like at 22 I think you Yeah. I’m not saying you have to take him, but I would like that outcome a lot. I think I also think that maybe maybe this whole thing is a is a mirage and we’ll get to the draft and like there’s always a guy like this where it’s like, oh, this guy’s really going to fall. like we’re just watch this guy falling out and maybe it’s him this year. I’m not rooting for that. I hope he does well by all accounts like no not rooting against anybody but it’s just an interesting uh archetype overall and of course he was on my list to ask you because of the Washington State thing but also he’s just really interested as a player. I I also do think there’s something to be said for and this is this is absolutely outside of my scouting purview. I don’t I don’t I don’t count any of this in my evaluation. So so don’t knock me as a scout for this but there’s something to be said for the excitement of a story, right? And like I do think NBA teams sometimes, especially GMs. I’ve spent a lot of time in the last few years around basketball people. Basketball people are storytellers. Oh yeah. At their heart and they love the story of a kid who got recruited by no one, paid back to play college basketball for a year, was absolutely dominant, and then gets to be an NBA guy. And there’s something to be said for both the the the the storytelling and the romanticism of that and also the the hard truth of hey this that means this guy in some way or another really took off over the last couple years because being in recruiting and you know knowing you know where he’s from and and you know Fresno is I’m telling you I’m sorry it’s not an underrecruited area by any means. Fresno, California plenty of plenty of college recruits have their eyes on there. that means there was some type of late in development. It It’s not just that he didn’t get seen. So, there’s something to believe in with, hey, this guy is just maybe such a hard worker. I’ve heard nothing but great things about Coward as as a human and and just kind of what he would bring to a team from that sense. And and the truth is, like we mentioned earlier, this draft is lacking guys like Coward. Usually there’d be five to 10 cowards in a draft where it’s like, “Hey, like we, you know, our small subsect of of draft Twitter that doesn’t really exist anymore, but you know, I still use this shortorthhand.” Oh, we really love this guy and we really love this guy. You know, there’s like some people are like banging the drum on Ryan Kulkbreer and it’s like, okay, like if that’s the level we’re at with this guy. It’s like I’m in and I’m not even out on Kulkbreer, but it’s just there’s just not there’s just not the the the excitement for guys like that in the draft because so many of those types of guys are going back to college. And so I think that’s a big part of it with cowards. It’s like, oh my gosh, like here’s the weird statistical case. Oh man, look at my bark query and man, he’s so long and so fun and and he played it. Wam it and all this stuff. And so it’s just kind of uh he he’s just it’s been really interesting to watch and it’s been really like like I wake up every day and see a new Cedric Coward tweet and I’m like I feel like I just watched a different basketball player this year. Like there was never a moment where I was watching Coward this year and I was like yeah he’s going to be a first round pick this year. And I don’t say that again. I would probably draft him in the first round, but I never watched him and thought he will be a first round pick. I want to ask you about one more guy in particular, and then I’m going to get you uh to your the my always segment where I asked the person on the podcast for their guys. Now, you’ve already mentioned a few of them, so we can we’ll add some more, but uh this is not in that segment. One more guy because I haven’t talked about him really at all. I realized that recently. That’s Noenda. uh Noah Penda if you people don’t know who he is uh you know I think he’s 20 68ish uh wing forward type you know consensus boards like in the 20s um Noah Penda I mean and look this this is you know this very well international player especially ones that are not protect protected lottery picks just don’t get talked about as much as everybody else in college because it’s harder to watch those guys I watch no penda later than everybody else because I because again because I was watching college guys first I like no penda I’m intrigued by Noenda. Uh I’m not saying I’m 13. This is more probably more of a 22 thing, but uh do you And again, I know you just talked about him on your podcast, so it’s not a curveball. Uh do you like Noa? What do you think of that? Because I feel like I should talk about him at some point. So, we’re going to do it now. I really want to love Noa. Uh like very few basketball players do I want to be in on the way I wanted to be in on No Penda. I just I I don’t I’m just not sold the mentality is right for the NBA. I has the European mentality, man. He wants to make the right play all the time. Uh, it got talked about as factory brain with was that was that Abdullle and Doi that had the factory brain or no it was Teao Maladon the the the uh you know factory brain uh calls and stuff and uh I I like I like Penda that I think he’s a fine bet like in the later lottery uh or not later excuse me the later first round. Um, you know, I think the big thing that needs to change for him is he has to change his mindset from I will shoot sometimes to I am a shooter because there’s just not enough else there offensively. And I don’t think he’s quite a good enough defender to make to be like a Carter Bryant type defenseonly prospect. He’s kind of good at a lot of things and great at nothing, which is always kind of one of my prospect red flags. I I think his best skill is his is his standstill processing on both ends. when he is not moving and he is standing still, he sees things great and he makes like he made plays in in a league and on a team that didn’t make a ton of plays. And what I mean by that is if you look at Benur off and Noah Sun’s numbers and compare them to the rest of M, they’re not really that outlier. You compare that to the rest of the league, they’re not really that outlier. Noah Penda and you compare his defensive playmaking to the rest of the league and to the rest of uh his team, which I’m blanking on the name of. It used to be he used to play for Yavichi but is it Lemon? Yeah, it is Le Man. That’s right. Um he used to play for Lavichi but or Yavichi but not anymore. Um anyways like like his numbers are outlier. Like he makes plays defensively in a way very few other people in his league do uh does and he played in a better league like the the Jeep elite league is a better league. He’s a little older than than uh like Noah San um you know but I I I like the strength. I think he’s really solid defensively, but not he’s not like quite a lockdown guy and the ground coverage isn’t good enough for him to be like a Taran type like ROR just like run around and make plays like he’s not like a you know Jaylen Johnson when he’s at his best defensively he’s kind of roaming around and just creating a lot of havoc. He’s a monster with the nail. He can be a low man. No Penda can’t really do all that. He’s just kind of a he’s he’s in the right spots all the time and he has really good timing and that stuff is great, but when you’re not like like when you’re a marginal athlete, it’s a real question to me. I don’t think the handle’s particularly good. I don’t think he’s a great finisher. He gets fouled a lot, which is good. I I think there’s a solid chance he’s an NBA player, but the truth is like a lot of these guys that are marginal end up just staying in Europe. Like if he was American, I think there there’d be a slightly higher chance that he sticks around in the NBA as like an eighth or ninth man. Um, I I I like the swing in kind of the mid to late 20s because if if he hits, he is like there’s a path to being like a starting four where he’s like a really good shooter who can make lowman rotations who can also contribute like he’s not just a rashier Fleming where he like he’s very limited offensively. Like he can do more of like the 0.5 second decision- making, the put the ball on the deck every once in a while. He’s a good cutter, but he’s just if he was just like that little bit more athletic or that little bit more comfortable with the ball in his hands, I’d feel a lot better about it. But he’s another guy where I just I don’t know that he can actually score well enough to to, you know, be a consistent mitigator in the NBA. Yeah, he he does a lot of things that I just am a sucker for like with the decision- making and the defense and like he just like you said, he’s in the right spot. Every time I watch him, I’m like, “Oh, he’s just doing the stuff that I want to see guys do.” But you’re right, he doesn’t score enough, doesn’t shoot enough, and I don’t I don’t know if he’s a good shooter. Like I don’t I don’t I don’t think he’s a zero shooter, but I don’t know how good of a shooter he is on top of the mentality stuff of like you got to take more. So I just wanted to ask him about him because like he’s kind of up my alley as a The one thing I I do want to add too is like he did improve a lot as a shooter and like that’s a Stone, my my my podcast co-host, um former guest of this podcast. Absolutely. He loves Penda and we actually we actually ruined his day because we talked him down a little bit on him. But um he’s been in on Penda for like three years. He he text us like three years ago like, “Hey, you got to watch this random dude playing the Spanish BL.” And we’re like, “Absolutely not.” But um but uh anyways, you know, he’s a he’s he’s really improved as a shooter. And there is a world to where um if he does buy into that that uh that mentality of uh it’s the truth is it’s kind of a more American mentality. Something I was talking about with um an NBA scout is he was saying like yeah like there’s a lot of like the French guys that make it in the NBA lots of times right now are kind of the stars, you know, or they’re guys that have h that were kind of on star pathways and then in some way or another fell off. like even you wouldn’t necessarily say Evan Forier was on a star pathway but you know he’s at least he’s at least a star in the sense that he had the ball in his hands and made plays. Um, Nicolola was kind of a star, but a lot of like the French role players are so like right play oriented and it’s a struggle for them to get to the NBA because the NBA is about making the right play, but more more often than people realize the right play in the NBA is to score because the shot clock is six seconds lower and like the timing is Yeah. Yeah. As I said, the Hawks had to kind of coach Risha and they still will be doing this like they they had to and they did it and I think it’s starting to work and you saw that and Morton season, but Risha has kind of that too where he is totally cool like just playing a role and like they’re like Zack you have to shoot like you have to and but again it took them six months for whatever it was he’s doing it more but they had to and by the way they were all open about it too. They weren’t even this is not off the record stuff. They were talking about this stuff on the record in the microphones like we we have to beg Zack to shoot and that’s like not what you normally see for a number one overall pick in the draft. And granted it was a weird draft. We all we all understand that. But a guy who was going to be a top seven pick no matter what probably and they had to like beg him to shoot the ball and it’s because he was the way he was wired. And I’m not saying it’s always about him being French or whatever, but like he’s just he came up playing a role. He’s he came up being I I I do think there’s something to be said for it’s part of like the French development system is they kind of determine like I like and if you watch a lot of their U8 teams you’ll kind of see it like they kind of have one or two guys and then they want everyone else to do their job when they have when they have a WBY web is going to get the ball and the rest of you guys are going to figure out how to get him the ball. You know this last year it was Trayor and win basketball games. I get it. I mean, no, absolutely. And and listen, it’s it’s worked. And a big thing that a big reason that a lot of French guys are going in the draft anymore, the truth is is that it’s important for NBA GMs to be on the good side of the French national team and and French basketball as a whole. Like, it’s important. And I I could see Penda providing real plus. It’s easy to squint and see late career Nicolola Baton with him, right? And that’s that’s the cell and and and I understand that and I’m rooting for that because that’s like my favorite player archetype. I just wish he was just a little bit better, I guess, is how is how I end up. I I think that’s totally reasonable. He does lots of I’m a sucker for these like low volume do everything right role players. That that’s kind of a weakness. That’s that’s honestly the player I was as a bad player. I was never good at basketball anyway, but I did play and that was my style of player. I couldn’t score and all those things. Anyway, uh before I let you go, we’ve already gone longer. I said I was going to take keep you. My apologies on that. Uh anybody that you love that we haven’t talked about. Uh it could be a second round pick, could be any Bryce’s guys. Uh I want to make sure you you have the opportunity to share anybody that you just like are really in on. And if if there’s nobody else, that’s totally fine, too. But if there’s anybody that you want to be like, hey, this is Rasher Fleming is one of them. I know that. But we talked about him already. So, anybody else that you just love? It could be guy in the 40s. doesn’t bother me. You know, I I maybe this is uh a bit of a a cop out, but that’s fine. I just staying on the French train, like I just can’t not love Maxim Reno. Like I just I couldn’t do it. I’m so glad you brought this up because Hawks fans, I don’t know when this happened, but in the last like two weeks, there’s like a contingent of Hawks fans that would like again like climb over hot coals for Maxi Meno. I I don’t know when that happened. I get it. He’s a very talented player, but if people don’t know who he is, the big man out of Stanford. He is French like you said, but uh back to you. Go ahead. Yeah, I just I I just think he’s really he’s just a really good offensive big and defensively I have a lot of questions. The truth is I I try to like like the positive with him defensively is that he did a whole lot of things over the course of the last five years uh of his basketball career. There were two straight years at Stanford where they switched every screen and he had to just figure it out. He was playing with Harrison Ingram as the point guard and they’re like, “We’re going to put 72 Maxim Reno out on your team’s point guard on the perimeter and we’re going to say, all right, just make it, you know, don’t let him get something comfortable.” And he kind of had to figure out like there’s these flashes of like cool movement for a dude that big. I was really disappointed by the standing reach. If he was as like physically big as Ryan called Brener, I’d be all the way in. Oh, I mean if he was that he would be uh Yeah, I mean just what he actually I’m looking this up now. Yeah, he he had a n a 71 wingspan at seven feet tall. So like not it’s not bad but uh I think it was like 92 standing reach which is like totally fine. That’s like center size compared to like a 95 for 94 and a half maybe for uh caller. And I just but but what I like about Reno is I think he’s an he’s an actual stretch big. And what I mean by that is like and I’ll use Kulch Brener as a as a contrast. I I like Kulch Brener, but I think Kulkr Brener is a fake stretch pick and that he can every once in a while step out and take one and that’s fine and he might make it, but it is a waste of his time as someone who is as good as he is in the paint to be standing on the perimeter because even every once in a while he makes a shot, he’s never going to have the actual gravity to draw a closeout because it’s not going to be great enough offense. And even if he did draw close outs, he couldn’t attack that closeout. Maxim Reno was in like the 90th percentile in in spot up situations this year. And that includes closeout attacks. Like he legitimately shot fakes and puts the ball on the deck and gets to the rim and finishes. Now, he doesn’t finish strong, which is a big concern for me. He’s really touchbased right now. But I just I I think there’s something to be said for, you know, if he’s like like a slightly better version of Mike Muscala. Like I’m still pretty happy with that guy. Like I that is so funny because I I won’t say who it is. I I have a person I talk basketball with a lot. I can show you my phone. I won’t today use that exact that that exact comparison to me. Exactly. Mike Mcallo was the comparison they used now. And it wasn’t in a bad way, but it was kind of like in a are we are we sure he could be a a center a primary center defensively kind of way because Scallop for while he was in the league for a long time. I love Mike covered Mike. He you didn’t want to be he was not going to be your defensive anchor necessarily at the five. He needed to be next to another guy who could kind of help him in that way. Um Reo’s breakout this year is crazy by the way. Like you talk about his shooting him being a real stretch big. He took almost 10 threes per 100 possessions this year. Yep. He was before that before that it was like three or four per 100 and for three years and now it’s like it literally was 9.8. That’s a That is a super duper duper high three-point set rate for a big like and honestly I might think I’m speaking of the MScal person can he play the four because I think he might actually end up playing more the four than the five at the NBA level because that that that might be the question right because I think he can pass well enough to be a four I think the tough thing is there’s marginal returns when stretch fives become stretch right that’s always the question so I think my My prediction for him is that he’s like a really good backup center in the in the realm of like a nause third big. Yeah. Third big kind of guy. Y where he plays some five, especially in the regular season, but if you need to get minutes from him at the four, you he can do it, but it’s not as it’s not as positive. What I like about him too is that I I think he just like he’s a good decision maker. And I will say like like to give him some benefit of the doubt defensively he was in a spot where he like this last year he had to cover for like three freshman on the floor all the time like he was this and and I think part of the cell for for Kyle Smith was hey this is my first year at Stanford and I just I I want to build a team around you Maxim and I want you to get all the shots and I want you to go to the NBA and it works and and if you go to the NBA I can use that as a recruiting pitch for future reference but it’s also a lot of responsibility on you and you could see him communicating and trying and and getting frustrated and the spacing was not good. So like he was not in a great situation. I just I think he’s the type of guy who could get maximized by NBA coaching and defensively if he can just the flashes of movement are enough for me to think that maybe he could be solid at like getting up to touch if he’s playing with another rim protector behind him. I he’s not like a lock down guy or anything. He’s not like a true switch big, but if you go back and you watch all his switch possessions over the last three years, you’d be surprised by just how well he does. Uh it’s not great. It’s not NBA switching, but it’s like there were a couple times where, you know, he does a legitimately good job funneling guys to his help. And he he really figured out the rotations of being a big guy uh on the perimeter in in a way that I think was really uh really impactful. the other the other guy that I I go out on a limb for, not to not to take too much time, but go ahead. I just I I I really like Drake Powell, and this is in the the argument of uh this is the Carter Bryant thing, man, where it’s like I was going to say super athletic. That’s nothing else. That’s what he hits. That’s what he is. I I watched him a lot in UIBL and I just thought I was like this is a guy who is one of the better perimeter defenders. And you know, I mentioned Carter Bryant Del is like he’s like a an OG type defender. I think Drake is more in the like Aaron Nmith realm where he’s a little kind of like he’s smaller. He’s more to guard point guards, but he’s lengthier. But what I I just thought the motor ran really really hot for like someone who for his EBL team was like their high volume score. and he played with other guys like he played with uh um Isaiah Evans who was like the you probably would have been a one and done if he if they didn’t take Conanipple at Duke and he’s going to be the guy that gets a ton of shots next year at Duke next to Cam Boozer. Um but you know he he is he has a really good first step. The handle’s really weak. The shot is kind of weird but I just like guys who play that hard. Like he reminded me a lot of Derrick Jones defensively. Derrick Jones Jr. And I just think like like those are the types of guys like again at 13 like Ricardo Bryant is going to go I would not touch Drake Powell with the 10 foot. No, at 22 probably too rich for me but getting more in the range. But if like if I’m at 31 32 like Drake Pal is the guy I’m taking because we’ve seen time and time again good wing defenders in that range provide real value. I, you know, Tammani Kamar is like the outlier example, but Jaylen Wells went 37. Really good perimeter defender who got, you know, kind of underrated because he was a little bit older. Drake Powell is not old. Uh, but he’s not a great shoot. He’s not a great shooter right now. He’s not a great ball handler. But I also just think the truth is, and I don’t ever talk bad on coaches, but like he was hit by a coach that didn’t know how to use him in a system that was not built for his skill set. If he had been at like, you know, Alabama or even like a middle, if he had been at Miss like like a good but not like elite SEC team or anything, I think we’d be talking about Drake Powell as like a top 20 pick. But kind of Yeah, he was the top 20 rci guy. Like this is a not not an off the radar prospect. But also, I’m looking at his um his his stuff right now. They’re actually very similar offensively to Carter Bryant. like super low usage, like five shots a game, six shots a game, decent percentages, but like super low volume across the board. Uh, by the way, if you didn’t know this, people that are like less sickos than you and I are, Bryce, uh, Powell had the highest vertical leap at the combine, both standing and max, and he also measured with seven with a seven foot wingspan. And that combination is like, he might go back to college, and it was like, oh, never mind. He’s not he’s not going back to college. He’s gonna be in the draft. Um, so no, I mean he might be a guy that goes 24 like that would have gone 40th a few week like a few weeks ago, but when you do that in the combine like you said uh defensively and the just this honestly the athleticism that he has is crazy. Plus the pedigree like if if he was a random uh guy with these same measurements but that wasn’t a five-star prospect, he might get knocked down a little bit for the offensive lacklusterness uh at the college level. But when you’re also a a McDonald’s all-American level guy and then you have these traits, like you just don’t fall that far. I don’t feel like usually. Yeah. And and I and I just I I try not to punish kids for making a decision that was probably only 50% in their hands. Like again, like I I do think if he was in a better system, even a marginally better system, he is he he doesn’t fall out of conversation the same way. The only other guy I have, Brad, I know we’re going long, but uh uh uh Will Richard from Florida just he’s just a winner. He’s just a really good basketball player. He’s Josh Hart, but hopefully he can make shots. U I just I I I love Will Richard. I don’t understand why he’s not um why he’s not talked about higher. I mean, I I’ve loved him since he was at Belmont. I think that he is going to impact winning in the NBA. I would do whatever it takes to get him in the second round. Um, so that’s that’s my he’s my he’s my last guy, but that’s my he is my draft crush this year where I just I I have been in on him for years and years and I just I’ve never understood uh why he’s not talked about with a little bit more reverence, but I think he’s he was the second most important player on a championship team in my opinion. Um, no, he was he was he was really good. I like him a lot too. He’s an Atlanta area guy. He’s from Fairburn. If people are local, then know that. Um, and also he was the only human I was at this game in San Antonio. He was the only human that could make a shot for the first 20 minutes of Florida and Houston in the final. He made like I mean you remember this like he was the only person that could make a shot on either side. It was actually kind of crazy uh in the big dome and all those things. But anyway, no I like him too all joking aside. Second round pick for sure, but like you know not in the Hawks ran once they once they kind of buy a pick. But look, I’ve been saying this the entire time to bring it full circle. The Hawks you can you can get in the second round if you want to get in the second round. like it’s not that hard to do. Uh in fact, our again Moay, your guy, our guy with the Hawks was not the Hawks pick. They went and got that pick to draft Moay and if you if there’s a guy that you love, you can you can get him in the 30s and 40s. The price is not usually ridiculous. So, it’s available to you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh Maxi Marino, by the way, people are going to be very excited about this. I might I’m gonna have to leave with him on YouTube because people are very excited about Put him in the thumbnail. Put him in the thumbnail. I don’t see why I have to do that. Um, how well would a Maxim Reno, Mo Gay, Cedric Coward thumbnail do? That’s the real question. Extremely good for Hawks fans would be it’s only it would be only Hawks fans, but they would be extremely in on that entire trio of basketball players. Uh, well, Bry 6 all the time and I very much appreciate it. We we’ve talked about your podcast, but please plug anything you’d like and uh where people can find you and maybe even your co-hosts. Great stuff on every everybody over there. So, what’s going on in your life? People should be following you. Absolutely. Well, I’m at Bryce Centric14 on Twitter and uh I think I’m the same thing on the the Blue Ski app, even though I’m never on that. Um but, uh yeah, and then we have a YouTube now, Upside Swings. Uh if you look upside Swings, that’ll show up. It’s it’s on podcast platforms, too, but we’re starting to do some different things on the YouTube. I just put out uh I I usually don’t plug specific things, but I just put out like a Cooper Flag like 10minute breakdown. I was really trying to get in like my Jay Kyle man bag. I don’t think I’m quite there yet, but that’s uh that was the the the inspiration. And I just think, you know, YouTube has allowed me to try and do some new things kind of creatively, and I’m enjoying that. And uh you know, the the truth is it’s it’s draft season. It’s the grind season. So, we’re just kind of uh we’re putting stuff out all the time. We’re doing a lot of work trying to make sure that um you know, we are we have all our uh uh p uh peas dotted and and Q’s crossed and all that stuff. So, uh it’s uh it’s it’s been a fun time. Brad, I always love coming on and I I appreciate that you allowed me to talk for an hour and 20 minutes on uh guys like Will Richard and Maxi Marino. Yeah, I might get a note from uh the overlords telling me this is too long, but hey, it’s gonna be two parts. I can say that right now. Two-parter with Bryce. So, if you’re listening to this podcast this far in, thank you for listening. Thanks to Bryce for being here. Follow up side swings. I a subscriber and a listener. Check it out. I recommend that at the highest level. Subscribe to this podcast and we’ll see everybody next time.

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland) hosts Episode 1988 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Bryce Hendricks for a two-part NBA Draft discussion. Part 2 continues the focus on the 2025 NBA Draft landscape for the Atlanta Hawks and highlights prospects including Rasheer Fleming, Carter Bryant, Cedric Coward, Noah Penda, Drake Powell, Maxime Raynaud, and more.

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