New York Knicks part ways with Tom Thibodeau — Right call or big mistake? | NBA | SPEAK

New York Knicks part ways with Tom Thibodeau — Right call or big mistake? | NBA | SPEAK

All right. So, um I mean a a little surprising to me anyway. Paul, what is this the right move for the Knicks to move on from Tibido? Man, it’s shocking. We have had some shocking firings this year, haven’t we? Yes. This is like the third one. My boy Mike out in Memphis. Mhm. Taylor Jenkins. Oh, yeah. Not not Mike Malone and then Taylor Jenkins out in Memphis. And now this one because Tips led them to the conference finals the first time in 25 years. Now I would have understood it if they had lost the second round cuz that’s what I was thinking because I felt like if they didn’t get past the second round with the roster that you know there could be a possibility of a coach chain but he led them to the conference finals and when I look at the Knicks I’m like shoot Tims maxed them out. I I really believe he maxed them. I I I felt like their ceiling was the conference finals because yes, they were stacked in the starting lineup. They just didn’t have the depth. When I looked at Indiana from top to bottom and then I looked at the Knicks, I said, “Yeah, this is going to be a six game series.” And I said it before the series started. But this is not a coach’s problem. This is this is a roster problem. If anything, you come back with tips, you add to the roster, and you see what you can do. I don’t like this firing to tell you the truth. I don’t like none of the firings that happened this year. I don’t like the trades that happened this year. You go from Luca, this has been the storylines. Think about Luca trade, the trade, I mean the Mike Malone firing and Taylor Jinx and Tibs. This has been a weird year. Didn’t they get uh Bud, too? Oh, yeah. They got him in Bud. You knew he was gone. Yeah, but I’m saying I was just thinking that was like the most notable. But like Bud was the only Mike Brown got hit earlier in the year in Sacramento. Yeah. But you know what I’m saying? It was three shocking firings and one shocking trade. Like this year has been a shocker. So, you know, it was mindboggling, but I don’t get it. But hey, that that’s the Knicks nicking. You You know what? Um, when I look at it, they must have gotten tired of watching him run guys into the ground and only go seven seven and a half deep into the roster. Um, I wouldn’t have fired him in in and you know, it feels like somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction if you look at the history since Tib Tibs was there five years. Yep. Okay. 2021 was, you know, somewhat of a a pandemic year in basketball and professional sports in general. Uh they go and they lose in the first round to the Hawks and then in 2122 they missed the playoffs. Two straight years they go in the second round, they get popped once by the Heat, then the Pacers, and they come back in the Eastern Conference Final. They lose to the Pacers. And now, you know, 48 hours later, he’s sent packing. Now, maybe he knew the writing could potentially be on the wall if he didn’t advance to a certain level, get him to the finals, but the fact that every single year they continue to get better, they continue to keep growing. And this is a different roster than he had a year ago. And so, they made a decision to to move on from him. Now, who they going to hire? What’s out there that’s better with this particular roster? And maybe whoever comes in says that I will extend the the bench to 10 deep instead of seven deep and maybe I’ll get five to six years out of the situation. But I wouldn’t have fired him. I personally wouldn’t. I’d have gave him at least one more year. One more. I would have one more year. I think what we’ve seen is that your track record and whether you win or lose or how far you go in the playoffs isn’t as big a factor as what are the relationships? Uh what is your relationship with your GM? That’s what got got Mike Malone. um that was a toxic environment. So, it didn’t matter that uh that they were still winning. Uh and and then as soon as you’re not winning, then you’re in trouble. Yeah. But I think but I think he had a great relationship with Leon Rose and West. I think he did. That was a guy I think he did initially. But to your point, the fact that you get to the playoffs and you have consistently not used your bench and then you’re forced to use your bench because of foul trouble and it turns out your bench is pretty good. Your GM is looking at it going, “You haven’t been playing these guys all year long. We’ve run out of gas. We get into foul trouble and that’s the only thing that forces you to utilize the the the pieces that I gave you.” And so we’re going to go in another direction. And look, Tibs’s calling card has been defense, right? That’s what he’s supposed to supposed to be uh exemplary at. And they were a mediocre defensive team during the season. They proved to be a mediocre defensive team in the postseason. Uh, and I I think when you add it all up where then you get into the the nitty-gritty of of how he handled the foul trouble with Jaylen Brunson and there’s a couple of of mistakes uh clock management mistakes along the way. When you add all that up, it’s like, you know what, we we we think we have enough talent to to be contending for a title. And one more year we got knocked out by the Indiana the Indiana Pacers. We lost. I think that’s the other part. You got knocked out by the same team, right? Just at a different level. But at an Indiana Pacers team where you look at talent-wise and you go, they don’t have as much invested in their team. They don’t have as much talent as we do. And then you look at why and Rick Carile was able to utilize his uh his entire roster better than than Tibs. So now moving forward though, Joy, fast forward ahead. Do you microwave a guy like Mike Malone that’s sitting out there? is probably he’s really the only championship coach that’s available, right, that’s sitting out there that’s won a championship. Is that somebody that you could see possibly going to New York? I mean, the only way I see this being the the right move is they get somebody in there that can take them further than Tibs did. Yeah. The problem is with Malone, he’s the same kind of guy as Tips. Run him in the ground. Well, hardnosed defensive coach like, but in totality, they in his time there, they were a good defensive team overall. Yes, they got better every year. They went to the conference finals for the first time in 25 years. Yes, you lost to the Pacers back-to-back seasons, but I think we can all stop saying that the Pacers aren’t a really good team. They’re in the NBA finals. They earned their way there. Yes. So, this is confusing to me because what what’s like what’s the ultimate goal here? And it’s if it’s always like you got to have relationships with the GMs, then maybe shows like ours need to start saying the GM’s names more than the coach’s names. Because if they’re the ones making these ultimate decisions and things don’t go well, we continue to point to the coach because they’re the ones we see on the sideline. But if they’re not making the calls and there’s the their names are the ones that we should be mentioning to me because and I’m I’m not a big fan of of cycling through coaches, I would have given Tibs another year. If you’re getting better every year, if you’re improving, yes, there like it’s everyone’s fault that they lost. Like they may ran out of gas, they got into foul trouble, they didn’t go deep enough on their bench, they didn’t get it done, they didn’t have enough talent. If you make it this far, it’s everyone’s fault in my opinion. it wasn’t a glaring obvious reason other than the Pacers were just better than them, which is what I saw from the beginning of this series. So, I would have given him another year. The only way I see this making sense is if next year they are marketably better than they are this year because now you’re really pressing reset. Are you going to go get a guy that is the hard-nosed guy that’s going to essentially do exactly what Tibs did? Well, if that doesn’t work, then you just stop the momentum of what is proven to be a good coach that’s developing a culture and a style and actually having success. Somebody has to lose. Yeah. Well, there’s one, look, there’s one element here that we have to take into consideration, and that’s that Jim Dolan is the owner of the Knicks and is We’ve done so well. We We made it like the whole season without talking about this. I know. Well, but now we’re now we’re at a crisis point where the ownership of Jim Dolan may be rearing its head, so we can’t avoid the subject. Fair enough. This may be him where he just, you know, he got a wild hair and he decided, you know what, I I I thought we were going to the finals for the first time and we’re not. And somebody has to be blamed and I’m going to blame the head coach. And then Well, I think people can be blamed, but that doesn’t mean that they have to be fired. Fired. Yeah, you’re right. I’m I’m not I’m not I’m not defending the move. I’m just trying to explain why it may have happened and why they may have been dissatisfied. Yeah. Well, while we’re throwing names out there, that’s probably appropriate to bring it up. Well, prior prior to uh Tib’s arrival, they had missed the playoffs for seven straight years. Then he comes, they go to the playoffs, they lose to the Hawks, and they they went four of the last five seasons. Yeah, they went four of the last five seasons and they get it done get it changed and they wind up in the Eastern Conference Finals. I can kind of see why they let Tim go because the roster has it shortcomings and it’s that style of play is not going to get to NBA Finals either. So, they probably figure if we bring back this style of play, it’s still going to be the same thing. They probably said, “Hey, you know, we reached our limit. Uh, I think we have a roster that can possibly get to the finals, but we have to change the way we play because basically you depended on Jaylen Brunson to make everything happened. You know, his ball usage was very high. Uh, you depended on a guy who’s I don’t even know what 61 soaking wet. I mean 6’2 Jaylen Brunson. Oh no, he’s shorter than that. Six feet. He’s Yeah, I think he’s less than 6’2. So there’s no way he’s 6’2. I know. I just say his list. And I and I’ve said this. I said, “Don’t look at me like that.” And I said at the beginning of the year, if you’re going to continue to build around a a roster where Jaylen Brown Brunson is your best player, I think it peaked. So look though, Paul, you may think that, but I’ll let you go in a second, but keep in mind, they just sold the farm to get Male Bridges. Yes. They just sent Julius Randall and Dante Definenzo to Minnesota to go get Leon Rose’s guy uh Carl Anthony Towns. So in the minds of the front office, they’re like, “We gave you everything we could possibly give you. We went and got male Bridges to form the the the Villanova Boys. We went and got Carl Anthony Towns, which was considered an upgrade from Julius Randall, right? And ultimately, we didn’t get there because we couldn’t get past the same team we couldn’t get past last year. But look, that I think was the thing. The question for all of y’all, though, if that ball doesn’t bounce, no, seriously, if that ball doesn’t bounce up and come right back down or we having this conversation about a coach being fired and a team not make it to the finals, cuz I feel like that that was the end be all right there. I mean, it it usually does come down to one or two plays. Yeah, but that wasn’t his fault. It’s I don’t think it is his fault, but I don’t think it’s anyone any specific fault. I think that the the roster isn’t quite good enough yet. I think the Pacers are a really really good team and we just haven’t been able to to say it yet, like but we should. They were in the Eastern Conference Finals last year and now they are in the NBA Finals. Bounce or no bounce. And so now based on what you just said, one year removed from the Eastern Conference final, now in the finals, here we are with the Knicks could be one year removed from the Eastern Conference final and and wind up in the finals. You kept things the same. And that’s why I think they should have given him one more year. Let me bring up one other thing. And again, this is also associated with what I know about Jim Dolan, which is when he walks into Madison Square Garden, he likes when the fans like are excited. The Knicks lost homecourt advantage two out of three series and they and they lost the first two games to Indiana. Like that leaves a mark when you’re leaving and your team is being booed out of your own building. That is going to affect a guy like Jim Dolan. And it may be a knee-jerk reaction, but we’ve seen that happen before. like player. Let me tell you, that’s like probably the worst homec court advantage in all of basketball. The Knicks because the players love to play there. Yeah. You know, the visiting players love like I never hear players say, “I love to come to the Boston Garden or I love to go to Indiana and play there.” Like cuz they know what type of crowds is there. Like it’s a respect thing with the New York fans and it’s the stage and it’s Spike Lee and the superstars. So you you get you know I done had some of my best games in that building. Kobe, Steph, LeBron. These guys have had some of their best games in this building. What was the best road? What was the best road arena you like to play in? And what was the worst? Well, New York Knicks. The Garden was the best. Yeah. The the the Staples and the Garden, the crypto, you know, saying, you know, whatever you want to call it, Keith, right? Yeah. Whatever you guys calling it today. The worst. I hated going to Philadelphia in the playoffs. Philly in the playoffs. They they’ll they’ll just rude. They rude. They’ll beat you up. Rude. Like for real. You can’t go nowhere to eat. You can’t go nowhere. You got a room. You got a bad Boston fans be pump faking though. They don’t really They don’t really smoke threatening. No, they don’t want no smoke. A threat to you. Philly fans are a threat to you. Philly fans, even from a football standpoint, they like they got first of all in the football stadium, they had a jail inside the football stadium. Just think about that. They had a jail inside the stadium. For real. And they once booed Santa Claus. Dang, that’s that’s See, that’s bad. Philly’s Philly’s a little different. The NBA finals are just two days away. Shel Gilas Alexander is looking to be the first player in 10 years to win MVP and then lead his team to the championship. On the Pacers side, Tyrese Hallebertton has emerged as a star during these playoffs and hopes to bring the Pacers their first championship in franchise history. man. So, Paul, which star do you trust more in the finals, SGA or Hallebertton? All right, I’m gonna say this and don’t get mad. Okay. Uh, I know the obvious choice is going to be Hallebertton, but I chose I mean, uh, SGA, but I chose Hallebertton. And here’s why. Now, SGA is a score. They need him to score 30 32 points, 40. I mean, he’s the leading scoreer in the NBA. Uh, shown to be unstoppable. But I feel like you could devise a game plan to get the ball out of his hands and slow him down. I saw him slow down a bit in Denver when that that series it was tough on him to score. They rely on that. You don’t rely on Hallebertton to get you 30. You don’t rely on Hallebertton to even get you 25. Now he’s going to get you a 15 and 13 game and that can be enough for him to win. Whereas I’m not sure if SGA getting you 15 or 17 can beat you. You know what I’m saying? So I feel like I could devise a game plan to say, “Hey, I can slow SGA.” Cuz this is what they’ll tell you. And this is what we all know. Your offense comes and goes. And I know he’s one of the great offensive players in the game today, but it might be a night where your shot don’t go. Then what? What is there? Whereas Hallebertton, he still every night is going to give me between 10 and 15 assists. Like that’s almost like a guarantee. The way he moves the ball, the way he pushes the pace, and if he gives me 13 and 15, I can count on that as being enough because he’s got so many other people involved that that is good enough for Indiana to win. So that’s why I go with Hallebertton on this one. And I know there’s levels to this cuz SGA has proved that he could can’t be stopped on it for the most part, but I feel like nobody has tried getting the ball out of his hands, double teaming him. And so that’s why I say Hallebertton in this issue. CSGA obviously the MVP averaging 30 points a game in the playoffs. That’s what he’s averaging. He’s averaging 30 where Hallebertton’s averaging slightly under 19. Got about nine assists a game where the other guy has about seven assists a game. I can’t go away from an MVP who’s been consistent, right, this entire time. He’s been consistent. Where Hallebertton, yeah, he give you some moments where you look up and there’s a few big shots, few daggers there, here and there, but for the most part, he’s not carrying his team at the same level that SGA is. And so for me when I look at he’s carrying his team like he literally like Paul said he’s got to score 30 every single but I’m going to take that. I’m going to take that 30. I’m going to take that 40 if he’s giving me 40. Yeah. Scoring 15 and having another 10 assist. That’s equivalent to almost 40. That’s cool. But if but but if I’m giving you 35 and I’m giving you eight assists Yeah. and everybody else is chiming in and doing what they supposed to do. This is the reason that they are heavy favorites. Yeah. In the entire series is because of that. They didn’t just come up and just look at the stats and say, “Well, SGA is a better basketball player.” They looking at everything all around. Rick, I I read the question a little bit different like, “Who do who do I trust more?” And and yeah, SGA um struggled a little bit against Denver. Sure. Um but he was always trying to get there. That’s where I don’t trust Hallebert because there’s times there have been times in these playoffs where he’s been strangely passive. And you’re right, he doesn’t necessarily have to score, but he does have to get to the paint. He does have to be on the attack mode. And there’s sometimes where I feel like he’s just kind of deferring, especially if he’s missed a couple shots early. I don’t even care if he’s he’s making every shot, but if he’s getting to the paint and he’s open and he’s taking those floaters, that forces the defense to respect him and then it opens everything else up. We have it it feels like Tyrese has evolved as the series has gone on and I’ve seen fewer instances where he gets passive. So maybe at this point it’s not something to worry about, but I’ve seen enough of it. whereas SGA, even when he struggled, he was getting to the free throw line. Like, he was still in attack mode and it eventually got uh got the job done. So, that’s where I trust SGA a little bit more because I feel like I know the effort that I’m going to get. And we’re showing all these Hallebertton highlights, of course, had so many big moments this postseason. I mean, I I I’m not going to pick against the the the MVP, but they’re, you know, they’re this is a first time situation for both of them. Yeah, two young ascending teams. They’re both going to be tested. From a scoring perspective, obviously we’re all going to pick SGA would be silly and uh go against math not to. But to Paul’s point, Hallebertton doesn’t necessarily have to be the leading scorer to have the most amount of influence on the game. So, if the Pacers are able to make things difficult on SGA specifically and take him out of the game in that way, is he going to be able to keep everyone else involved and keep them in the game? Um, I guess we’ll start to see how this is going to unfold once the series start, but I’m just I’m just hoping for a long series. Please give us seven, guys. I think it’s going seven. I’ve said that about every Let me ask you this. Does Does Hallebertton wash what SGA does as far as production? You mean uh cancel? Yeah, in a way. In a way. I mean, that’s that’s where I think this series in a way. Right. Yeah. In totality. If I give you like he had a 15 point like a 15 point 15 assist however you’re producing the points you’re producing points you may not be 15 assists as at minimum 30 points but you know they shoot a lot of threes so that could be he gave you a total of 50 points. Yeah but you know you can say the same thing for OKC too low Paul. Yeah. No but that’s what I’m saying. That’s why I asked do they cancel each other out? Yeah those two to a degree I think so. Maybe SGA by a little bit. You know what I’m cuz if I’m getting so many assists and so many points and you getting 30 and five like you probably out your production is probably like six to eight points better maybe. I honestly feel like the benches could really determine this series whether we get a good series or not. Does Benedict Matan and TJ McConnell? Did they play Alex Caruso and and and and that group even interesting match up for me in this one. I want to know who’s going to guard Seakum. That’s going to be interesting. Are you going to put chat on them? You have the series 4.7. Well, yeah, I have a seven. Wow. I’m just keep saying seven to to make it happen. Speak it into existence. Subscribe here to get the latest from Speak and go watch a few segments from our other shows on FS1.

Joy Taylor, Keyshawn Johnson, Paul Pierce, and Ric Bucher react to the New York Knicks moving on from Tom Thibodeau, breaking down what it means for the franchise moving forward. They also weigh in on which star they trust more in the NBA Finals — Shai Gilgeous-Alexander or Tyrese Haliburton.

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New York Knicks part ways with Tom Thibodeau — Right call or big mistake? | NBA | SPEAK
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