What the Orlando Magic can LEARN from Oklahoma City Thunder-Indiana Pacers Finals

What the Orlando Magic can LEARN from Oklahoma City Thunder-Indiana Pacers Finals

The NBA Finals are finally here. So, what can the Orlando Magic learn from the process to the Thunder and the Pacers? What stats do they have that could help the Magic learn what they need to do next? And why depth still matters? And I’ll go on record so you can freeze and cold take me later today on Locked On Magic. You are Locked on Magic, your daily Orlando Magic podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. And you are indeed locked on Magic. Today is June 5th, 2025. My name is Philip Rosenrike. I’m the senior writer over at Orlando MagagicDaily.com. You can always follow me on Twitter, philipr_omd, and on blue sky, phiprr. On today’s episode of Lockdown Magic, we’re going to talk NBA Finals, how the Orlando Magic are similar to the Oklahoma City Thunder and Indiana Pacers, and what the Magic can learn from how they play and what they’ve done to get to the finals because ultimately that’s where we all want to be. We all want to be playing basketball at this time of year. Plus, I will go on record, make my finals prediction. You can yell at me about it later. We get to all that coming up here in just a moment. First, we want to thank you again for making Lockdown Magic part of your day every day. Whether you’re listening to us first thing in the morning, whether it’s right when we upload, we truly appreciate you making lockdown on Magic part of your day every day. We truly appreciate you. If you make Lock on Magic uh one of your everyday listens, we love our everyday listeners. We’re all part of Locked On podcast network. Be sure to check out locked on locked on Pacers, locked on Thunder, as well as locked on NBA throughout the NBA Finals for the best local NBA finals coverage you can find anywhere. Check it out today. The Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Today’s episode of Lock On Magic is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can get $200 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. The NBA finals this year are fascinating. Um just just a truly fascinating journey for for two franchises to get to this point. Uh uh just more proof that there is no one way to win a championship. It doesn’t have to be you tank to get the number one pick. doesn’t have to be, oh, you executed this crazy big star trade. To get the pieces to fall exactly right to compete for the NBA championship takes, yes, shrewd movements, good drafting. Um, the right move at the right time, the right the wrong move not happening at the right time has happened a couple times with Miles Turner. It is considering that the Oklahoma City Thunder haven’t been to the finals since what 2012 and the Indiana Pacers haven’t been to the finals since 2000. It is really imperative to remember how rare it is to make the finals. I mean, it’s been now 16 years since the Magic made the finals in 2009. It is a really rare feat and a true accomplishment. And sometimes teams that deserve to go to the finals never make it. Brooklyn Nets from a few years ago. And sometimes the right pieces fall at the right time that open a pathway for you to earn your way in. Let me let me make this clear because I’ve I’ve I’ve said some Pacers slander on here. The Pacers have absolutely earned their way to the champ to the finals. They’ve earned their way to this spot. And frankly, once you get to that second round, once you get to the conference finals, forget what happened in the regular season. You have a chance. Indiana is are heavy underdogs, but they have a chance. And because this is a Magic podcast, we got to talk about the Magic. The Magic can look at both the Thunder and the Pacers and see a little bit of themselves and see a little bit of the way that they’ve built a and and what they’re trying to accomplish, the kind of team that they’re trying to be and and a little bit of the path that they’re going to have to take to make the finals eventually. At the end of the day, let’s make this part clear. The Magic can’t copy what the Pacers did. The Magic can’t copy what the Thunder did exactly. Orlando’s got to run the path that it’s running and be the best team that it can be. And look, we are expecting a very busy offseason where the Magic are expected to make some of the improvements that I’m going to very clearly point out that these two teams show us that the Magic need to make. But but uh but the Magic are still on a path to get there. That the doorway is open. we can see maybe we don’t know the exact route maybe maybe the map map quest that’s that that ages me maybe Google maps or whatever p whatever road map the magic are using hasn’t quite revealed every step of the process yet but we can see the path to a championship we can see a path to compete at the highest levels now the Magic are not the Pacers obviously the Pacers are a team that are built on their offense. They have one of the best offenses in the league. They play at one of the faster paces in the league. They’re uh seventh actually in pace, so they they slowed that down a ton. Um but the Pacers ended the season rated ninth in offensive rating and and surprisingly 14th in defensive rating, 115.4 offensive rating, 113.3 defensive rating. Their net rating finished 13th in the league. they they do not have the profile of a team that’s going to win a championship. But let’s put some of that aside and and because like look, the fact of the matter is um the Thunder and Pacers have the two most wins since January 1st are two are have two of the better records since January 1st. Since January 1st, the in the regular season since January 1st, the Thunder went 41-9. The Pacers went 34 and 14. The Pacers rose to seventh in offensive rating, 117.3 points per 100 possessions, and were ninth in defensive rate. Top 10 offense, top 10 defense. That’s the goal. And the Pacers, if if you look at them, the Pacers were an offensive team. Fast-paced, unique offensive style, a style that teams had to be ready for. you had to specifically be prepared and attentive to what the Pacers were trying to do. But what kind of held them back and and made them just like a curiosity was that their defense was spotty at best. And what Indiana’s done over the last year and a half since acquiring Pascal Siakob last year is slowly grow their defensive brand. slowly grow their defense into something that is tough to crack. And certainly with the offense that they have, they don’t need it to be elite. They need it to be just good enough. They needed it to be better. The Indiana Pacers have always been the mirror to the Orlando Magic. The Orlando Magic are a devastating defensive team. They are a team that you do not score against. Orlando was second in the league in defensive rating at 109.1. The Magic have an elite defense. The only team better than them, by the way, Oklahoma City at 106.6. We’re going to talk about OKC here in a minute. The Pacers have always been the mirror to the Magic. But what Indiana did was they figured out how to defend. They got a defensive-minded player in. They taught a defense. They figured out defense that is successful for them. And that’s what the Magic are kind of doing now. It’s trying to figure out how do we maintain our defensive identity while adding an offense that is successful for us. Part of what the Magic weren’t able to accomplish this season because of all the injuries is to begin to figure out what is a successful offense for them with all of their players healthy. Having Jaylen Suggs out not being able to run that point guard experiment that hurts a ton. That hurt the Magic a ton. And the fact that from game five, the Magic had to reconfigure their offense seemingly every day or every couple of weeks with another big injury that hurt their ability to kind of grow this part of the game to to be that version of the Pacers. This is what matters then about the Indiana example. Indiana shows us it is possible to improve upon your weakness. It is possible to maintain your identity and add something to your team. That’s what turned their path into back-to-back conference finals. Now an NBA Finals appearance. And so while the Magic are trying to do the opposite, they’re trying to find a guy who will buy into their defense and make their offense easier and those players are out there and it’s going to take a bold move, a a move that sacrifices something of value for the Magic to get that done. And we don’t think the Orlando is going to trade any of the core pieces. Paulo Fron and Jaylen Suggs are not on the table, but the Magic are going to have to find a way to make a sacrifice. because especially in this Eastern Conference, you don’t need to be elite. You need to be very good, but you don’t need to be elite to get far in the playoffs. And obviously, considering the Magic finished 27th in offensive rating, the Magic have work to do. Now, granted, the Pacers are playing the Thunder, and the Thunder are elite at everything. So, I want to talk about the importance of still maintaining that identity and why depth still matters as we enter the NBA Finals. We’re going to get to that coming up here in just a moment. But first, today’s episode of Lockdown Magic is brought to our friends at FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are in full swing. We have reached the end of the road, the NBA finals, and every night, every game delivers highlight worthy performances, major momentum shifts, and can’t miss moments. Whether it’s a game-winning shot or a breakout player, there’s never been a better time to get in on the action. FanDuel makes it easy to stay in the game before tip off and live with player props, performance trends, and same game parlays. Fans have more ways than ever to play smart and win big. As you’re preparing for the NBA Finals, trying to think which which players going to show up in the big moment and how tracking those trends can help you win just like the players on the court. If you got a read on who’s heating up, why not back it up with a same game parlay and a $200 bonus in bets, only add to the excitement if that first $5 bet hits. New to FanDuel? It’s the perfect time to sign up. Head to fanuel.com and place your first $5 bet. If it wins, you’ll get $200 in bonus bets. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. It it’s easy to see how the Magic and Pacers are mirrors of each other. I It’s easy to see, okay, the Pacers are not a team that typically looks like an NBA Finals team statist from a statistical profile. And yet has found themselves four games away from lifting the Larry O’Brien trophy. And look, I throw a lot of shade at the Pacers. I don’t mean to. Tony East locked on Pacers, great guy. Go listen to him for his analysis of the finals. The Magic are like one of the few teams that knows how to deal with the Pacers and knows how to deal with that fast breaking style. Their their fast break defense is so good. There’s so much emphasis on it. It it really does like the Magic have had a lot of success against Indiana. And I know they beat them three out of four times. Three of those game three of those games, two wins, one loss. We’re very very early in the season. One of the one loss was like the third game after the Palo Bane Caro injury. You could still kind of tell the Magic were shell shocked a little bit. Um there is there is a lot to say and and there is um you know like look this Pacers team is different than the Pacers team we saw in November when Paulo dropped 50 on them. But the Magic team that gives Indiana trouble and so if Orlando can beat Indiana and and I’m confident that in a seven game series it would be a very competitive series that means they have the chance to go to the finals. They they they’re not far away. I I am like I I’m sorry. I am very convinced Orlando is not far away. But then you look at a team like Oklahoma City and I think this is going to be the biggest challenge of this series. The Oklahoma City Thunder led the league in defensive rating. 106.6. They are an unrelenting defense. They do not turn the ball over. 11.6 turnover rate is the lowest in the league. They force a ton of turnovers. They get out in transition. They pummel you for every mistake that you make because on top of being the top team in defensive rating, they were third in offensive rating, scoring 119.2 off uh points per 100 possessions. This is what a team that wins a championship is supposed to look like. It’s why we thought Cleveland, Boston, Oklahoma City, they had the best chance to win. In fact, if you look at net rating, Thunder led the league plus 12.7, Celtics plus 9.4, Cavs plus 9.2, Minnesota was fourth at plus five, five points per 100 possessions. It felt like this was a title tier of three teams and Oklahoma City was one of those seeds. Obviously, they went 68 and 14. They dominated the league and look, Oklahoma City is not without their weaknesses. Maybe their shoot their shooting which is pretty good has shown some holes. They they can beat you everywhere. And really what’s going to determine whether they win this series or not in my opinion is going to come down to their attentiveness. It still pays to be elite. It still pays to be the best at everything. And if you’re going to win a championship, you got to be good at everything. It’s why yes, the Magic cannot exist and be a functional team if they’re one of the best defenses in the league. That’s going to get them to the playoffs, but being 27th in offensive rating, that’s going to prevent them from doing anything of significance. And that’s why, yes, the Magic must improve their shooting. They must improve their offense. They must be willing to sacrifice a little bit of their defense. Not all of it. They need their defensive identity. they must be willing to sacrifice a little bit to get there. But there’s another really important point to make about all this. One of the key characteristics of both the Thunder and the Pacers is depth and depth of scoring. The both teams are relatively deep and get a lot of production off their bench. The Pacers this year were seventh in the league with 39.8 points per game off the bench. The Thunder actually ranked down bel down near the Magic at 18th with 35.1 points per game off the bench. Magic at 35.8. But when you look at the Magic, I want to remind you of this. The Magic were fifth in the league in scoring off the bench before Mo Vagner’s injury. Obviously, injuries has have a huge role in this. The Magic dropped to 17th. They were like 23rd in the league after the injury. And even when they got healthy, even after Paulo and France were back for those last 18 games, they were still bottom 10 in the league. And certainly when we got to the playoffs, Boston cut off the bench. The bench just couldn’t do anything. Imagine couldn’t function when their bench was on the floor. Anthony Black was really the only solid player off the bench and look, he shot 21% from three. Like it was just it was not pretty. Depth still matters. And and I want to make this really really clear because the Magic are starting to look at swapping players and they’re gonna sacrifice a little bit of depth. But if you look at Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City may not score a ton of points off the bench, but they get contributions from Kenri Williams, from Aaron Wiggins, from uh Isaiah Joe. The Indiana Pacers are defined by their bench. Benedict Mathan, Andrew Nehard, although Andrew Nehart starts now. Um, uh, uh, TJ McConnell, they got good minutes from Jarus Walker always kills the magic when they when they face him. Um, Aaron Nith was coming off the bench for a little bit. Pacers bench is not as strong this year as it was last year perhaps, but depth still matters. Even when you’re starting to tighten rotations, your ability to rely on players to come in and succeed is so critical. This is another big piece of this puzzle. This is another big part of this story is you have to star in your role. Whatever your role is, whatever the team needs you to do, you have to be excellent at it. And honestly, to me, that’s why the Pacers and Thunder are where they are. That’s why they’re successful because the Stars are going to do what the Stars are going to do. You’re you’re not you’re not shutting down Tyresese Hallebert. You’re not shutting down Pascal Seakum. They may have like Ty like Tyrese Hallebert may have a bad game here or there like he had in game five against the Knicks, but you’re not shutting those guys down. You’re not shutting down Sheay. You know, you got to find a way to control Jaylen Williams. It’s it’s hard to play these teams, but Oklahoma City’s not here if Alex Caruso doesn’t win that matchup against Nicole Joic in game seven. They’re not here if Kenri Williams doesn’t have the game that he had. Uh I forget which playoff which game it was earlier in the playoffs, but he had a huge game when the Thunder needed him the most. They’re not here without their role players succeeding the way that they have. And look, a lot of us, I think, like the Magic’s players and like them as people, but we see in the playoffs how they struggle to star in those roles. Cole Anthony struggled for a second straight playoffs. You know, Anthony Black in his first real playoff experience, as up and down as he was in the regular season, just the downs were a lot lower and and the pressure was a lot higher. We know that Paulo and and Fron will step up. Wendell Carter loved how he stepped up in the playoffs. You can you can debate a lot of things about Wendell Carter and no, he shouldn’t be your third bet leading scoreer in the playoffs and shouldn’t be the only other player to be averaging 10 points per game, but he did everything the Magic asked him to do in that playoff series against Boston. He was excellent and he showed us that he can step up when his number is called up. That’s what matters in these playoffs and and that’s what when you watch these games, that’s what you see from all the successful teams. Why did Orlando push Cleveland to seven games last year? Because Darius Garland was wildly up and down. The games that Darius Garland played well were the games Cleveland won. It was because Max Duce disappeared. It’s because Isaac Aoro couldn’t give them anything. It was because the Cavs relied so heavily on their main players. And look, the Magic did too. It was a sevename series. They couldn’t get much from their from their supporting cast. The games Orlando won, they got big games from Jaylen Suggs. They got a huge, huge effort from Cole Anthony in game six. The games the Magic won were the games that their role players were successful. And that’s how the playoffs work. As Shaka always says, it’s about the others. Will the others step up? And that gets us to how we’re going to close today’s episode. What’s going to happen in the NBA Finals? We got to care about the rest of the league. I’ll go on record, put my prediction down, what I’m watching as the NBA finals begin. We’ll get to that coming up here in just a moment. Like I said, when you get to this point, I I’m actually kind of a believer of this. When you get to the conference finals, homecourt advantage means a whole lot less because if you make it to the conference finals, your team is good enough to win on the road. Your team is good enough to compete anywhere they may be found. And so, let’s let’s start with this. The Thunder and Pacers are the same four games away from winning a championship. Indiana are heavy underdogs. Heavy, heavy underdogs. Heavy, heavy underdog. So heavy in fact that I’m going to stall and get you the FanDuel odds on them winning the series. As we look at the odds, as I’m recording this on Thursday morning, the Thunder are nine and a half point favorites in game one. The Thunder are minus700 to win the series. Minus 700 would mean you bet a 100. You bet a you bet 700 to win 100. The Pacers are plus 500, which means you if you bet 100, you get 500. It’s 5 to1 odds. It’s a lot shorter odds actually than I thought. But this is the point. The Thunder are heavy favorites to win this thing. Heavy favorites to win. And so and so when we look at this when we look at this series, what’s going to determine the series? I think ultimately what determines the series is turnovers. Whichever team turns the ball over the most is going to lose because both the Thunder and the Pacers are experts at getting out and running. there. Both of these teams punish you for your mistakes. I think the difference is like the Magic, Oklahoma City is designed specifically to stop what the Pacers do. Oklahoma City’s transition defense is as good as Orlando. I’m actually going to look this up real fast if you give me a second. Um, if you look at the regular season, the Orlando Magic were uh six in the league and opponent fast break points at 13.9 per game. The Thunder led the league with 12.3. Opponent scored only 12.7 points off turnovers against them. That was first in the league. The Thunder, on the other hand, not a crazy fast-b breakaking team. They were 11th. Indiana was fifth. But points off turnovers. Oklahoma City led the league in 21 with 21.8. Indiana only 18.3. So we got a we got a team in Oklahoma City that typically doesn’t turn the ball over a lot. Forces a lot of turnovers, scores off those turnovers, gets out in transition off those turnovers going up against a Pacers team that look is going to push the pace. They’re going to run, but they they thrive on those turnovers, too. And so, you know, I I I I I if you remember back when we were covering the playoffs, I said like in every series, it always feels like there’s a leader and a chaser. And the team that’s chasing is the one that has to do more things right to win the series against Boston. I said, “Look, Orlando’s chasing here. Boston can play a bad game and still have a chance to win every game in the series.” I did not expect Orlando to blow any game out in that series. For Orlando to win, they needed to control the three-point shooting, which they largely did throughout the series. They needed to limit their turnovers. They needed to make shots. They had this checklist of things they had to do just to have a chance in that series. In this series, Indiana is clearly the chaser. Now, I want to give Indiana credit because they’ve been the chaser in a lot of their series. They were the chaser against Cleveland and did everything they had to do to beat Cleveland. You you could argue whether there’s a ch a true chaser against New York, but even if they were equal, there were a lot of things Indiana had to do successfully to win that series and they did in no team, you know, the Miami Heat were great at this as a lower seated team. Indiana’s like Miami. They’re really good at doing the stuff they need to do to chase teams down, to give themselves a chance. And then they, again, I always say good teams don’t win close games. they avoid them. When they when Indiana gets in close games, they are confident they can win. They have a closer. They have a guy that can win games. And and I think that’s going to play a factor in the series. I think there will be at least two close games in this series that come down to the wire. Just like in that Denver series, Denver series where Oklahoma City lost a couple close games. They had to win a close game in game five to take control to take control of that series and put themselves in position to win. That’s going to happen in this series. Oklahoma City is going to get tested and they’re gonna have to be an Indiana team that feels invincible when the game is on the line. That’s that’s the truth. That’s that’s I if I were Indian, I’d feel that way for sure. But make no mistake about it, this is Oklahoma City series. They are such a complete team. They are so good at so many things. And frankly, Oklahoma City is the worst matchup for Indiana because Oklahoma City is good at stopping all the things Indiana is good at. So, my official prediction, put it in writing, prepare to freezing cold, take it. I have Oklahoma City in six. And again, that is out of respect for what the Pacers have done. That is me thinking there will be a close game that Indiana steals and wins to extend the series. But I think this is a soft six. I I know I’ve introduced this concept where, you know, where I’m I’m basically debating whether it’s gonna be a five or six game series. I’m gonna give Indiana a game for sure. They’ll win probably game three. There’ll be a close game somewhere, but I’ve got Oklahoma City in a soft six. I think it could be five. It would not completely shock me if this is a sweep because Oklahoma City is just that good. Um I have too much respect for the Pacers to to to say that there’ll be a sweep, so I’m not saying that. I think it’s possible, but this is Oklahoma City series to lose. This is Oklahoma City’s time. They are on paper the better team. They are they have all the tools and resources they need to win. The Pacers are the Pacers hopefully are playing like they got nothing to lose. They know they’re the underdogs and they’re going to play hard for it. Um, but this this feels like it’s OKC’s to take and we will see how all the chips come out. I want to thank you all again for listening to today’s episode of Locked On Magic. You can of course find me on Twitter, Philip R_OMD, and on Blue Skyr. Sorry, I hit my mic there. Um, for the latest on the uh you can subscribe to the podcast, Apple Podcast, Tune in Him, Google Play, Spotify, Odyssey, and all the way you download podcast to your podcast enabled device. You can check us out on YouTube as well. Just search for locked on magic. For the latest on the Orlando Magic, be sure to check out Orlando Magicaily.com. You can find us on Twitter, OM Magic Daily. And for even more Orlando Magic content, be sure to check out my Patreon page, or Magagicub, at patreon.com Orlando Magicub. As always, thank you for your support. Uh, I’m trying to use the Patreon page now to supplement content on Orlando Magic. So, if you want extra stories on stuff that I’m writing, some added notes, that’s where you’re going to go. Plus, I’m doing my player evaluation series there. So check that out at or patreon.com/orlandoagicubup. Now that you’re done making Locked on Magic your first listen of the day, go make Locked on NBA Big Board show your second listen of the day. NBA draft expert Rafael Barlo reacts to every workout, interview, and rumor leading up to the NBA draft. Find Locked on NBA Big Board on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. That’s going to do it for me today, though. I want to thank you all again for listening to today’s episode of Locked On Magic. On tomorrow’s episode, we’ll talk Wendell Carter. I want to talk about him, how we make sense of his season, and frankly, what can we salvage from it. We’ll get to that tomorrow on Locked On Magic. But until then, for Orlando Magic Daily and Lockdown Magic, it’s been Phil Broman Reich. Enjoy game one of the NBA Finals. We’ll see you all tomorrow for another episode of Locked On Magic.

The NBA Finals are here as the Oklahoma City Thunder and Indiana Pacers prepare to fight for the Larry O’Brien Trophy. What can the Orlando Magic learn from them and their journeys?

They share a lot more characteristics than you would think. But they have both taken major steps the Magic have yet to take. The path to get there is not as long as it may seem, but the Magic have work to do as they watch the NBA season works its way to a champion.

0:00 Intro: NBA Finals and Magic’s path forward
5:07 Pacers’ offensive strength and defensive growth
10:14 Thunder’s elite offense and defense
15:59 Importance of bench depth in playoffs
21:03 NBA Finals prediction and analysis
25:37 Oklahoma City favored, but close games likely

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…
🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOMagic?sid=YouTube

Locked On NBA League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft, WNBA & More
🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnNBA

#OrlandoMagic #PaoloBanchero #NBA

Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!
OpenPhone
Streamline and scale your customer communications with OpenPhone. Get 20% off your first 6 months at www.openphone.com/lockedonnba

Betterhelp
This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Your well-being is worth it. Visit BetterHelp.com/lockedonnba today to get 10% off your first month.

Monarch Money
Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNBA at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year

FanDuel
Right now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.

FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)