Detroit Pistons Season Review: Can Tobias Harris Stay Relevant?
let’s talk about the Detroit Pistons their 24-25 season Let’s review it Michael Bolton let’s go Thanks Josh It’s Michael Bolton here and it’s time for another episode of the Locked On Fantasy Basketball Podcast Let’s get to it Yes Sorry Sorry I meant Let’s get to it Indeed You are Locked on Fantasy your daily NBA fantasy podcast part of the Locked On Podcast Network Your team every day Hello and welcome to the locked on fantasy basketball podcast brought to you by basketball monster My name is Josh Lloyd and this episode is not approved by Tim Hardaway senior I’m also the lead fantasy analyst at basketballmonster.com and today’s episode is brought to you by Monarch Money Take control of your finances with Monarchoney Use the code locked on NBA at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year Thank you also for making lockdown fantasy basketball your first listen every day We are free and we are available on all platforms So double bang and hit the thumb Be an everyday Comment subscribe comment and share and do all the stuff that you can do to help out But also also just so you don’t miss an episode cuz I think there’s some interesting stuff in these Maybe it is National Iced Tea Day Not an iced tea guy Um not a sweet tea guy I want bitter Exactly like my soul We got a we got a match Let’s um let’s talk about this Pistons squad which of course had one of the biggest turnarounds in NBA history We thought they would be better cuz it would be hard to be worse but the level to which they improved was unprecedented They went from a was it 14 win season and they won 44 games 44 and 38 was their record Now they lose their first round pick It goes to the Minnesota Timberwolves through you know what I don’t even remember which trade that was I think it was Pistons to the Knicks and the Knicks sent that to the Wolves as part of the Towns deal maybe Actually don’t know and I don’t care They have the Raptors um second round pick pick 37 which is not a bad second round pick but given the way that they improved and the guys they have they’re still really young on their squad I think they’ll feel pretty okay about where they sit Obviously getting more talent in is always going to be a good thing and that pick is one from long ago but that’s where they sit It was a huge turnaround Um is it all on JB i mean a lot of it is and I don’t think JB is the greatest coach but you are upgrading from one of the worst general manager and coach combinations in recent history So you know we expected to be some improvement in terms of the general manager and the free agents There’s not a lot they got to make decisions on restricted wise It’s Denise Jenkins who was a uh a two-way guy who we just didn’t really get to see play I think there might be some marginal potential in him maybe longterm to turn into a Scotty Pippen Jr Ryan Rollins type but not certain on that at the moment That’s not the focus Where the focus has to be for this team is their unrestricted free agent list because Malik Beasley Tim Hardway Dennis Schroer three of their main guard rotation pieces one starter in Hardway the guy that would replace the starter in Beasley and the guy that would also replace the starter in Shredder So their sixth and seventh men their fifth starter all those guys are free agents I think that the two priorities should not include Tim Hardaway Jr It should be Beasley and it should be Schroeder But of course when we’re talking about um resigning someone like Malik Beasley there are challenges in that given the given the contract that he signed the minimum deals that he’s been getting Um you have limitations in terms of the way that you can uh bring guys in and the amount that you can pay these players Now they do have things like mid-le mid-level exceptions they can use on Beasley which is like a $14 million deal He didn’t sign the minimum in Detroit signed the minimum in Milwaukee but only $6 million They don’t have bird rights They can’t go over the cap unless they’re using exceptions on him so he should be the priority And Sh is the other one who played on three teams this season started in Brooklyn went to Golden State and then was dumped um on Detroit uh along with Lindy Waters uh in that at the trade deadline Waters also an unrestricted free agent and Paul Reed who they had and then they they claimed off waiverss and they cut him for some cap minutia which you don’t need to get into too much of that but then they resigned him and he was very very useful when he was called into action but he is what he is because he’s a low-end backup center who always puts up good fantasy numbers and is a solid third string guy and useful on this team The question is going to be what they do with these guys and that’s going to impact a lot of stuff because of course most of the season was played without Jaden Ivy as well and he would have or he was slotting into one of those roles So do they need Shredder Hardway Beasley when Ivy is back probably not Does Shroa serve any purpose if Ivy is there also maybe not Do they view Ivy as a two or as a three do they just move on from Hardway and have Ivy Schroeder and Beasley we know that Shro’s role is not going to be particularly big We’ll talk about him a little bit later but they are some interesting questions The Reed and Waters one I think they’ll bring Reed back Waters whatever He never really got to play much uh as a part of this team And that doesn’t really matter a huge amount as we move forward But let’s talk about the over 25s on this team And you’ll note when we go through this the core of their team is not over 25 So there is a lot of improvement that can still come But I would argue that them signing Tobias Harris let me be clear overpaying to sign Tobias Harris really helped them Now was Tobias Harris the reason they won 30 more games no not at all Tobias Harris didn’t lift them 30 games up But having a stable veteran presence who played 73 games had 32 minutes sort of knows what to do was very useful Harris is an interesting one Now I was too high on him from a fantasy perspective because I thought on this team that Harris would easily be able to hit 20% usage and he didn’t 17 and a half% and I have to worry whether Ank still has it I don’t think he’s got the ability to ramp up that usage to even league average anymore He was still solid 99th ranked player in categories 118 in points and post trade deadline 71st which I had him around that 65 mark around I think the 65 to 75 was the range that I had him So the post trade deadline was sort of in line and he was behind that for the majority of the season He still I I thought was better than he was in Philadelphia He’s a low um he’s not a high usage player He’s not a high ball demand player He’s the perfect sort of guy to sit off of Cade Cunningham and theoretically Jaden Ivy He only shot 35% on three and that number needs to go up And this is another one of those players We talked about it on the magic show in terms of the king of the mid the Denny Abdia type of player that used to be just hitting the average marks everywhere And you can see that he scores threes rebounds assists steals blocks field goals free throws all pretty good He’s not quite that king of the mid anymore And the scoring numbers are very low 13.7 points And where he sits with that 17.6 usage next season is going to be very interesting regarding how they work with Ivy And remember Harris was prioritized over guys like Assar Thompson during the season and for the spacing and the the abilities that he provides I I think he’s going to have a similar role Now he’s not going to have any high upside So he’s going to be like one of those players if you’re taking a couple of risky picks earlier on you can grab him in round 10 probably I’d say that’s probably where he goes Maybe it’s maybe it’s round eight maybe that area And I expect numbers that are pretty similar but I also wouldn’t be shocked if that like 17.8 usage is not high 13.7 points is not high That could jump up That could jump up Not huge but it could go up a little bit So I I expect probably more of the same from the thick hogsman as we move forward into his second season back in Detroit His second season in his second stint in Detroit right let’s talk about Dennis Shredder who again came across uh at the trade deadline He started in Brooklyn Things were fine there He started out redot We knew he was going to cool He did he went to Golden State completely useless in a fantasy perspective and even a real life perspective And then came across to Detroit and was pretty useless there as well There were times when Cade missed some games down the end of the season that he was useful but again he’s going to require a role where he plays 30 plus minutes and is the focal point offensively cuz he doesn’t do enough in enough other areas You can see 145th pre-trade deadline and most of that was through the numbers in Brooklyn 274th after landing in Detroit He averaged 13 22 1/2 and 5 1/2 He’s still a very good assist player but 34% on three 41% only uh from the field The free throws are fine doesn’t get that many of them He’s 32 now 21 usage You saw a big drop in his overall impact He’s useful as a backup point guard That’s who he is now But unless things really work in his favor and even in the situation in Brooklyn or last year in Toronto we saw him play well early and then fade away because there was some incredibly hot shooting that lifted it up But he’s not a rebounder He’s not a steals guy He’s not a block guy He’s not a high free throw guy usually He’s a guy that needs out outlier type shooting numbers and an offense catered around him and that is not going to happen He is a player that has improved as an oncourt defender He’s definitely better there His rim contest and deflections they’re not great but they’re okay He’s improved in that area and he’s a really solid overall backup point guard level player but not someone for the majority of the time that we’re going to be considering too much for fantasy He’ll be one of those guys that oh is Shro starting but if he is back in Detroit will he get those opportunities or will Jaden Ivy get the chance to play alongside Cade and back up Kade because remember Ivy didn’t play at all when Shro was there So there is a lot of stuff that we don’t know if he’s going to be back He probably he’s not really an offball player cuz he’s not a great shooter He doesn’t need that ball and as an offball guy he doesn’t do a huge amount So I’m not expecting Dennis to be back necessarily in Detroit Even if he is the production I think would be probably lower next season than what it was this past season even if we’re just including the Detroit only portion of his season We’ve got more of these over 25s on the Pistons to talk about First of all today’s episode is brought to you by Door Dash and Dash Pass NBA playoffs and NBA finals are here and that means you can get some really really 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apply All right let’s again take a look at some more of these Detroit Pistons and their 24-25 NBA season We’ve done Tobias Harris we’ve done Dennis Schroeder and let’s talk about someone who was very close to winning sixth man of the year Leaky Beasley and we know who Malik Beasley generally is Now I I would say this season was one of Beasley’s better years he was more consistent but still still you’ll notice that he was averaging 23.8 fantasy points which was 157th but for category leagues 257th in Durant rankings that is just not going to cut it He is a very strong points and threes player usually You’ll also notice that for Yahoo total rankings he comes in at number 77 Is that better or worse than KCP at 93 now he played every game Absolutely he did He averaged 16 points That’s really good Four threes a game Unbelievable The problem is everywhere else we’re talking 2.6 rebounds 1.7 assists,.9 steals,.1 blocks 43 from the field Somehow wasn’t able to hit free throws either 68% from the free throw line So he was able to give you one positive category one because well let me I hate that term positive negative he was able to give you one above average category because 16 points is below average the average in a fantasy league is about 18 17.9 or whatever it is 17.8 He was below average in every category apart from threes And he was very much above average in that category But you’re taking L’s everywhere else you know for points leagues because points leagues standard Yahoo scoring overindexes the scoring That put him in a better spot But overall he was just not good enough to be the sort of player that you wanted to just ping on your roster at all points Again he was good He provided those threes at an incredibly high level but overall the the performance and the production in what was almost the best case scenario Now yeah look he only played 28 minutes I guess he could have played 33 if they decided not to play Tim Hardaway but Beasley is a terrible defender and he doesn’t do anything else Not that Hardway does a huge amount We’re going to talk about him in a second I don’t know whether Beasley will be back I think they’d love to have him back He was really useful in terms of helping Duran and helping Cade and helping Assar Thompson but from a fantasy perspective even though the 4- threes are very good what we know when we’re talking about standard formats 10 12 team leagues even 14 team leagues you just find threes on the Wire So while he’s better than anyone you find on the Waver as a general rule you can find players for blocks of time who are averaging two and a half threes who are averaging three threes for periods of time You got your Max Strus Sam Merrill Sam Houses These sort of players will appear at all points Tim Hardway will go through hot streaks of hitting six at a game You can find threes everywhere And while you get consistency in the threes from Beasley the field goal percentage does go up and down You consistently get the threes You’re consistently having to work in all those other areas to fix it And it’s why I just do not like him as a fantasy contributor fine to use in certain spots schedule plus areas all that sort of stuff for very specific scenarios but I can’t see a scenario to me in which Beasley is going to be a 12 team draftable player I don’t see how that’s going to make sense Paul Reed is a player that’s on the Pistons He was on the Pistons then he wasn’t on the Pistons for a few days and he was back on the Pistons He was their third string center when Isaiah Stewart went down He was able to fill in and produce okay numbers Once again Paul Reed in limited playing time 10 minutes outperforms what you think you should do from a fantasy input or or fantasy output type of area 296th in Durant only 12.5 fantasy points He’s not a good points league player He averaged four points a game with 2.7 rebounds and one assist with.9 steals and 6 blocks If you look at those numbers that’s like Malik Beasley numbers but better in 18 minutes 51 from the field 76 from the line Also again when we want to compare what Beasley does to Reed cuz they’re the two players who have backto-back He has a better field goal better free throw better blocks better steals better rebounds slightly worse assists and obviously worse points and threes I don’t think there’s any scenario here Reed who is 26 now he had 18 usage that he’s ever going to really find his way into being a 12 league guy again He is a player who when pressed into action will bring things through rebounds steals blocks and efficiency And there’s some of the things that get hidden when looking at a player’s overall line but I don’t think that’s ever going to come back I still like Reed as a very valuable backup center He is undersized He does struggle with his shooting 29% from three and he’s one of those guys that you’re in deeper formats you get a little bit desperate You plug him in I don’t think the NBA views him quite as highly as I do So even if you’re talking dice he’s only 26 you go well maybe he finds a backup role the next couple of years and he just every night playing time I don’t necessarily think that’s the case I still think he’s useful in that role He’s never going to be a full-time starter I I don’t ever see how or why that would be something that happens realistically That brings us to the guy that started all season over Dennis Schroer over Malik Beasley And I don’t really know why Trajan Langden made a lot of good moves for the Detroit Pistons Like there’s no question about that Langden brought in you know the the new coach JB staff He got this team along with you know everyone else working hard to win 30 more games Trading Quentyn Grimes for Tim Hardaway Jr is legitimately insane It was insane at the time It It’s insane now I don’t really understand it but whatever Hardway started for them all season He did provide the spacing Now I think Grimes could have done that but he provided the spacing to help unlock things with Cade He shot 37% from three but the fantasy value is non-existent He’s 33 He did scale his usage down 16% He played 28 minutes He was the 350th ranked player You’ll notice his advanced stats are pretty rough 17% on ball Again he used to be a relatively ball do dominant sort of a player especially back I think it was with the Knicks where there was he was one of like pseudo point guard stuff His defensive stuff is absolutely not there ever He doesn’t assist anymore He doesn’t get rebounds He shot the free throws well which is something Beasley didn’t do But overall like only two threes a game 11 points He was useful as a I want to say a traffic home but that gives negative connotations in that he was there he was in the lineup he was spacing He wasn’t as good as Beasley as a shooter but he still provided a role and he didn’t need the ball and he was able to do some things that apparently they liked I don’t know why they liked it as much as they did Now like we’ve said already Beasley Hardway Shredder they’re all going to be free free agents I don’t think all three are back but I’m also very certain that we’ve put the pin in any sort of value that Hardway has realistically in any league He wasn’t even a top 300 player this year And there are not many formats and there are dynasty formats obviously where you roster 300 players So he should be rostered there as a as a regular starter and rotation guy But I would say a lot of those dynasty leagues that roster 300 plus players you don’t start 300 plus players That would be my guess I don’t imagine there’s many leagues where there are 300 starters outside of a 30 team league with 10 starters There are plenty of leagues and dynasty formats where you roster 300 plus but you don’t start 300 plus And at age 33 with an uncertain future I don’t imagine we’re going to be seeing huge amounts of things um improving from hardware as we move forward Got a couple more guys we’re going to talk about on the Pistons team before the next show which is going to be talking about Cade and Assar and Duran and the younger guys Jaden Ivy But today’s episode is also brought to you by Monarch Money Do you ever check in on your bank account and you think “Oh jeez where’d it go where has the money gone why did I spend it all on Tim Hardaway Jr.?” Well dining out online shopping entertainment and taking on the contract with Tim Hardaway Jr Well it can be easy to lose track of where that money’s gone That’s where Monarch Money comes in It isn’t just a budgeting app It’s a complete financial command center so you can track all of your accounts investments and your spending in one place So you stop just managing your money and you start building wealth It’s easy also to collaborate with your partner managing that money across multiple accounts and shared accounts easier to set those goals track your spending together and stay on the same page without the stress So take control of your finances with Monarch Money Use the code lockdown NBA at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year That is monarchoney.com The code is locked on NBA for half off your first year All right let’s get into the rest of the Detroit Pistons and their over 25 brigade They traded at the last trade deadline for Simony Fonteo from the Utah Jazz and they played him in a pretty sizable role and he was useful enough He was sort of a fringe 12 team league player They brought him back on a restricted free agent contract which seemed pretty undervalued and then he just never played I mean he did play He played 75 games but he was strictly a 16-minute a night player because they played Tim Hardaway and they played Tobias Harris Vekia also saw a drop off in his production 34% from three This is a guy that needs to be hitting 38 to 39 Absolutely nothing in terms of assist steals and blocks He’s putrid in all those areas He’s a low volume guy He’s not a passer He’s not a usage player He did I think suffered a pretty sizable drop off He’s not a bad defender He’s not a great defender Um but like we saw the second half of the season the previous year 23- 24 for uh Fonteo when he was put into a larger role played 30 plus minutes and got to be a pseudo number one at times he was able to you know sort of sniff the edges of a top 120 fantasy guy but no team’s going to do that No team’s going to put Fonte into that position He still hit one three a game but bro we need more than that If you’re only playing 17 minutes I need you to hitting hitting two a game Overall a very disappointing season from Fontekio I think Pistons fans would suggest that’s true as well Um I don’t think that he’s like written off as a as a role player but he is 29 I think that he was just put into a a bit of a weird situation um where I think he probably deserved to play a little bit more based on what he’d done in his previous stops and the fact that he’s fine as a defender and he’s usually a pretty good shooter It’s not that things just didn’t go to plan I would be interested to see whether a team does look to try and you know get him out of Detroit and put him into a larger role cuz he can be at least like a 14 team league player but we’re not talking about a 23-year-old here also So what we’re getting now it’s like did he hit a cliff maybe that is possible He really stepped up from year one to year two he was great and then year three fell away and are we getting to the stage where he plays two more years and he’s back in Europe It’s also possible So I would say overall a pretty disappointing year from Simony Fonteo Lindy Waters III Hall pass legend came across as a part of that Dennis Schroa trade which I think was ended up being a part of the Jimmy Butler deal Pretty sure that’s how it all worked out Anyway I don’t even know how Detroit got in in on that Waters previous two-way guy Steve Kerr did seem to like him at times and he’d get starting jobs He does profile again as a shooter and he’s had some moments in the past but he’s also what 28 now And yeah while there might be random college girls wanting to root him he lost some of that ability as a shooter And when you’re a shooter and you shoot 34% well you know not going to look good is it he averaged 10 fantasy points a game His DPM delta was in the fourth center and I think that’s fair He was a useful player and he turned into a not useful player He barely played during his time in Detroit He averaged five points with 1.2 threes overall He shot under 40% from the field He couldn’t finish his twos He didn’t hit his threes at an elite level And Waters now is an unrestricted free agent He is 28 While there was some potential as a 6’9 shooting wing with some defensive ability like half a steel a game in 15 minutes Not bad Not not great but not bad and deflection rate and rim contest numbers are pretty good He’s an okay defender but he’s also just a guy that’s sort of in that same size size profile as Tobias Assar the man we just talked about Simon Fontio Maybe they bring him back and they let go hard away If they can’t resign Beasley he’s put into a larger role But you got to shoot better than that You have to shoot better than 34% when that is your skill Again he can defend a little bit but he can’t really do too much more So Waters had a chance to me to establish himself as somewhat of a solid 7th eighth man rotation type He had opportunities in Golden State but when he went to Detroit buried That’s okay That’s JBustaf’s decision Maybe he’s able to catch on with a bad team and have a strong second half of a season but we are at the stage now again where he’s 28 We sort of are where we are And when you lose that shooting and it’s not at that level well you know my level of confidence in him as a player and as a prospect is uh going to be pretty low The last guy we’re going to talk about did we I I don’t recall really anything about him playing during the season to be honest Like I don’t know how he did he ever play a sizable role which Ron Harper Jr by the way who is of course Ron Harper’s senior’s son but also Dylan Harper’s brother Harper is 25 now He had 22 usage He played well that’s why I didn’t remember He played literally one game 17 minutes in one game He averaged four points seven rebounds and well he didn’t He in the one game he just got 47 and two He shot 12% from the field I believe that was probably the last game of the season So Harper who’d been with the Raptors previously was on a two-way with the Pistons just did not play and not sure he’s going to play again To be honest he is under contract again for one more year on the two-way but to be on the two-way and just never see the court with Jaden Ivy injured is a little concerning Now Harper didn’t start the season playing for the Pistons He started not on a team He was playing with the main main Celtics and then he came across to the Pistons In his 37 G-League games last season he averaged 16 points on 44% He shot 39% on threes hitting over three a game and eight 8.6 attempts That’s really encouraging His free throws were strong There’s not a lot else going on there So he’s got some shooting ability but obviously a lot of other stuff is lacking He’s a little undersized for the position he probably needs to play He is only 6’4 in shoes so probably needs to be a little bit bigger than that Obviously his brother is quite a bit taller And I don’t really think that you need to hear me talk much more about Ron Harper Jr to be honest He’ll be in the league next season playing for the Pistons but you will he don’t know 2A guys can be cut realistically at any point And I’m going to cut the show right here That means that tomorrow when we come back to talk about the Pistons and the rest of their guys um I think it’ll be tomorrow I don’t think it’ll be today I was planning on releasing it today but then I had some medical stuff that we had to take care of in the family so not able to do that But tomorrow we’ll come back we’ll have Cade Jaden Jaylen Duran Jaden Ivy Assad Thompson Isaiah Stewart Rugged Ronny Holland Bobby Clintman quite a few really interesting players So I want you to stay tuned for that And the best way to do that is subscribe leave comments uh all platforms all that stuff Guys we are done here Thank you so much for listening everyone See you [Music]
The Detroit Pistons finally turned the corner — but did any of their veterans hold fantasy value?
Josh Lloyd, host of Locked On Fantasy Basketball, breaks down Detroit’s over-25 core after a shock 44-win season and a coaching overhaul under J.B. Bickerstaff.
📌 Tobias Harris: usage dropped, but still standard league relevant
📌 Malik Beasley: elite threes, but offers almost nothing else
📌 Dennis Schroder: faded out fast — can he find a role?
📌 Tim Hardaway Jr.: strange acquisition, low ceiling
This episode covers only the veterans. Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey, and Jalen Duren will be reviewed in the next show.
✔️ Fantasy basketball implications for category and points leagues
✔️ Dynasty stock check (Harris down)
#FantasyBasketball #DetroitPistons #TobiasHarris #MalikBeasley #dennisschröder #LockedOnFantasyBasketball #NBADynasty #NBADepthCharts
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0:00 – Introduction
0:31 – Pistons season review
1:31 – Free agent decisions
4:34 – Tobias Harris impact
7:37 – Dennis Schroder analysis
10:41 – Malik Beasley evaluation
14:16 – Paul Reed role
15:47 – Tim Hardaway Jr. assessment
19:20 – Simone Fontecchio performance
21:24 – Lindy Waters III outlook
23:56 – Ron Harper Jr. situation
26:16 – Conclusion
4 Comments
Tobias Harris — boring, but still useful.
Who else over 25 on the Pistons can you actually trust in fantasy?
Did Detroit’s turnaround help any of these vets hold real value?
Drop your thoughts 👇 #FantasyBasketball
Ah, I forgot about Tim Hardaway jr. No wonder I'm always broke 😢
I really like and appreciate the season reviews.
Thanks!
If we didn't somehow find the #3 pick in this year's draft, Tobias Harris being overwhelmingly more useful than Paul George this season would be a tough burn to bear