Utah Jazz: Trade or Extend the Vets, Draft, and more | 2025 Offseason Preview | Third Apron Podcast

Utah Jazz: Trade or Extend the Vets, Draft, and more | 2025 Offseason Preview | Third Apron Podcast

hey welcome to another Third Apron podcast i’m Yosi Goslin your host NBA salary cap analyst and this is another offseason preview in my series almost done with every single team and joining me today to discuss the Utah Jazz I’ve got one of the best guys covering them today you can see all his work on the athletic Tony Jones tony how are you doing today i’m good i’m good thank you for having me i appreciate it i appreciate you being on for this so the Jazz their off season definitely got a lot more interesting last week uh so after the hiring of Austin H to be president of basketball operations so now they’ve completed re year three of the rebuild some pretty good veterans lots of picks they’ve got about like 11 future picks over through 2032 some decent to interesting young players no cornerstone yet that’s the biggest hole right now could still take some time to find out hopefully they can get him in this draft uh and but now with Austin coming in we know a lot of Danny’s philosophy from his time in Boston and now it’s kind a lot of it is like try to get us extract as much value in the transaction based on his trades in Boston and the Rudy Goar Don Mitchell trade uh and you know kind of be patient and try to use those picks to find your next guys could there be a potentially slightly different approach with Austin now coming in and being the lead decision maker hold up i have a kink in my throat can we uh can we just start over hold on let me get this let me This is live tony we’re live oh we’re live okay yeah take your time um hold on sorry about that um No you’re good i think that um you know with Austin I think that it’ll be interesting to see what changes because he’s taking over the front office this isn’t going to be something where he’s you know working in concert with you know Justin Xanic and Danny Ang so his philosophy is going to determine the shape and um the direction that the uh that the Jazz go in and you know one of the the biggest things that he said was you know we’re not going to see any manipulating in the minutes we’re not going to see you know um you know any tanking i mean the context is you know what’s the roster look like uh in August and whether that roster is set up to win or whether that roster is set up to lose um you know but whatever roster it is you know they’re going to let Will Hardy coach that roster and they’re going to let they’re they’re going to try to win as many games as possible so you know I think that those are interesting you know subplots uh for the Jazz you know as they head into their off season what I do know is that you know with the pick that they have um everything is on the table trading up staying put making a pick uh trading back maybe collecting a few assets uh maybe trying to trade up from uh from from pick number 21 to try to get into the mid- teens um you know they have Neat Clifford coming in uh on Friday and he’s somebody that you know they would love to pick with 21 but they don’t know that he’s going to be available at 21 you know so um so many things are on the table uh with with uh what Utah can do uh and and it really sets them up to be a fascinating team to watch uh over the next month so let’s talk about a little bit how they can go about their off seasonason if if the plan is not to bottom out and maybe take a little bit of a step to be a little more competitive i still feel like they’re probably at least a year away maybe two before they could really get into like the playin conversation but I guess we could start with the draft unfortunately fell they had the worst record worst odds fell down to five and they could potentially move up a couple spots like the Sixers seem like a team they’ve been heavily Ruber now’s a team to trade down not sure there’s an exact fit there uh and if there’s a like an exact match as in like a trade between Philly and Utah uh if there’s like somewhat of a bidding war for teams to get up to three then how how deep do the Jazz want to go in terms of how aggressive they’d want to be is there is this something they’d be willing to do where like they trade a future pick along with 21 i don’t know if that’s worth it to move up to three so I do think yeah moving up from maybe 21 or maybe getting another pick maybe there’s something you could do to package uh your seconds in a future pick uh so I think that’s definitely one way that they can do it the other is and I’m the one other way I’m kind of like a little more interested in of what the Jazz could do to kind of like speed things up a little bit because after year three that’s kind of like most teams don’t they want to they don’t want to be like in the lottery after like three straight years they gotta they’re going to want to pick things up a little bit understand if they don’t want to completely bottom out maybe be somewhere in be just take a little step forward i’m curious if maybe they want to start to target some young players like more established young players that are maybe either just finished their rookie deals or maybe are like about to finish their rookie deals and like are about to extend um I I wonder if like you know cuz they mostly have like first second year guys could make a difference if they bring in some like slightly older players to push things forward a little bit i mean has has that kind of been something that you could see the Jazz potentially trying to do to be a little more competitive and and and uh speed up the timeline well I mean I think they could but what does that look like you know do they you know let’s just say for the sake of argument this is not me reporting anything but let’s say for the sake of argument um you go and trade for a Trey Young or what if you offer you know five and 21 and maybe a future first and try to get seven and Trey Murphy you know and and pair Trey Murphy with you know Lowry Marketing or something like that um you know there there’s there’s a number of different ways um that they can go um I don’t know that I see them trading up to three because three is kind of the same tier uh of players as as five is um if it you know if I were the Jazz and I were trading up I’d be trying to trade up to two uh and try to get a definitive you know potential future franchise piece and and Dylan Harper um I think you could uh see the Jazz doing something like that you know the the thing that I know that I can say is you know that there are no sacred cows on the Jazz right now you know um there’s no untouchables uh anybody can be drafted over um you know anybody can be traded you know they’re you know there there are people who I consider more likely to be traded than not um but you know if you make a really good offer for Larry Marketing that the Jazz are like “Yeah I like this offer.” You know Larry Marketing can be traded same thing as Walker Kesler you know now now those guys are people that the Jazz um are people that the Jazz really value uh so you know it’s it’s it’ll take a lot but I mean it’s possible you know so I I think you look at that and you look at um you know what they they they could do uh in in terms of the draft the flexibility as you said they have a whole bunch of picks you know it it makes it it makes sense to see that the Jazz are going to keep um every option open every door open uh see what shakes out during the trade uh season um you know free agent free agency and and see what options are there for them and if the option is there for them to get older and to go out and make a trade for an impact player they’re going to do it but if the best path for them is to you know keep tearing it all down and and and and play with a bunch of kids next year um they’re not afraid to do that either um but you know the what they will do whatever roster they put on the floor you’re not going to see some of the stuff that you did uh th this season they’re they’re going to play they’re going to play hard next year so a so yeah there’s just a lot of different ways the Jazz can go about it i agree with you i think moving up to three doesn’t really make that much sense for them moving up to two I definitely think that’s possible if the Spurs they the Jazz can be a facilitator in whatever type of move that they end up doing like so for number two for example if the Spurs end up getting uh to if they’re in a position to get a superstar that they really want and that involves number two maybe there’s a way that the Jazz couldn’t get involved take on some bad money uh trade number five or whatever you know an additional future pick whatever it is i think the Jazz have the means to get up to number two if that is in play as far as potentially getting some other young players so like you talked so you just mentioned as an example just a hypothetical like they yeah they could go after a guy like Trey Young in that same vein they could go potentially go after a guy making a max like a Darius Garland for example like they have enough draft picks they have enough uh veterans where they can make an acceptable offer if those guys type of guys became available i still feel like you know they’re still kind of far away from doing something quite like that so as a facilitator I’m kind of keeping my on eye on to see if there’s other teams like Houston for example who could be in the market for a for a superstar what if the Jazz want to uh can get involved and take on some of the young guys that the Rockets might not uh might be sending out whether that could be like a Jaylen Green Jabari Smith uh another example could be if the Pistons if they make a big move maybe guys like Jaden Ivy or or one of their young wings like Colin uh maybe they those guys could be in play in that type of move uh just very hypothetical but I that’s the kind of thing I’m looking at where the Jazz are not getting a veteran like a like a very high-end veteran who’s probably not going to be able who’s not going to like help raise them to like a playing level now but you got like a couple older still young players that still could be a part of the next Jazz team going forward still have some room to develop does any of those does that type of like like do does that type of like you know strategy kind of appeal to you if you if you had a say in it yes and no um I think if you’re bringing in somebody that you’re going to have to pay um you know I I you know I don’t know that it’d be Jaylen Green or Jay Ivy you know uh per se you know the guy that I would pay I would pay Trey Murphy like I trade for Trey Murphy in a heartbeat um you know you the the thing right now that that’s on the table like let’s just say let’s say the dra the Jazz say “Hey you know what we’ve been three years we’ve gone three years we don’t have a franchise altering prospect on our roster right now.” And the Jazz know this right like they know that you know they have some good young pieces but they don’t have the guy right now so because we don’t have the guy because we um didn’t get Cooper flag let’s say that trading for I mean let’s say that getting the number two is probably not um feasible so what do you do right there you possibly draft Kaman Malawatch from Duke right he’s 18 years old and he plays the same uh he plays the same um position as Walker Kesler so what does that do for the Jazz what that does is it resets the timeline right because you can draft Malawatch who’s 18 years old and you can say you know what hey Walker Kesler um um we know that the Lakers will give us a hall for you and you know we’ll possibly trade you to the Los Angeles Lakers and just reset the timeline and restart the timeline um all together now I gotta say this again this is not reporting this is just Tony Jones me um just just kind of spitballing here um so I don’t want to be aggregated um but you know it it’s you know those are the kind of things you know that you know those are the kind of decisions that the Jazz have to make so you know I think you know something like that or you know you have to choose between uh let’s say that VJam and Trey Johnson are off the board um do we want Ace Bailey or do we want Malawatch or do we want Jeremiah Fierce or do we want Khan Canipple um you know you look at that and you you have to you know see if if if that happens or maybe best case scenario one of VJ Ashkim or uh Trey Johnson are there at number five and the Jazz you know um are like “Okay one of these guys that we really like are available.” And then then you you pick one of those guys so you know I just think that you know there are even though we are less than two weeks away from the draft it still seems like so many things have to happen uh the the Jazz according to Sarah Todd of the Desireette News uh have already had um Trey Johnson in for a workout um they expect to get Ace Bailey and and and VJ Achim and Malawatch and Khan Canipo in for workouts as well uh over the next two weeks um you know so I think that a lot will be be told then maybe they fall in love with the a prospect uh maybe they don’t or or and maybe you know something happens on the trade market uh that they feel like makes sense to them so you make a good point about how depending on if they were to bring some of these younger players that are about to get paid yeah the fact that they are about to be extension eligible and they have to they’re going to get a big raise that that does complicate things uh but that’s a good segue to what I wanted to get to next which is the current veterans that they have they’ve got uh aside from Larry Markin and on his max deal you got John Collins Colin Ston Jordan Clarkson and they’re all expiring right now they uh they’re all uh with the exception of Clarkson yeah the John Collins Colin Saxon they’re extension eligible but they’re all expiring the Jazz can have a lot of cap space next summer they have a lot of flexibility so on one hand yeah you if the Jazz are going to bring in some young guys that are about to get paid that could complicate things a little bit but seeing that you know I’m sure these guys they they can be had uh you know there if another team wants to acquire them I’m sure there’s a trade to be made if these players are already uh expiring or outgoing you so then you’re starting to make some room for some potential other young guys that you can bring in if if there’s any guys like about to be on their third year or already on their fifth year just got paid the Jazz do have some flexibility if they want to bring them in just a matter of who it is that they want if there’s someone that they identify that could be a part of the next good next core but as far as the current vets I mean I I would get I would get the feeling they’ll try they’ll see what’s out there for them they they’ve uh like Collins uh Ston Clarkson uh I’m sure a lot of people paying attention to the league probably expect at least one or two of them to have been moved by now but they haven’t uh I mean is it possible that the Jazz might even look to uh keep them long term or could it be the type or will they would they just play it out and just see how things go before making any decision i I think that you know the two uh guys that you know the the Jazz will try to trade um will you know try to put some effort into the trading or John Collins and and Colin Saxon um and I would say Jordan Clarkson is is a part of that as well um I think that Collins uh his contract is you know moves to an expiring but he does have a player option at the end of that so you know I expect him to pick up his player option on that as well um but that’s that’s a year away um but you know got the player option right now he’s got to decide on it so one thing he and then I’ll you know sorry for interrupting but something he could do is restructure it where he can decline it the new CBA now lets you get a lower salary on the option so that’s just something they could consider maybe he’d be willing to like the decrease it a little bit to make it a little easier for other teams to trade for him and then he ends up getting like a couple more years guaranteed to make it worthwhile for him right no for sure and he had a had a really good year he had his best shooting year of his career uh by by you know by leaps and bounds um you know so I think that you know there’s going to be I I think that there’s potential to have be some interest on the market for him um you know Clarkson that’ll be interesting uh he’s going I believe he’s going into the last year of his contract uh I believe that Colin Saxon is going into the last year final year of his contract as well so they have a lot of pieces you know they could keep these pieces and you know just kind of reset their books or continue to reset their books um because you know you’re going into year three for for Kee George so next year at this time they’re going to have to make a decision on on you know what an extension will look like for him um you know you still have a couple years for Kyle Filipowski and and Isaiah Collier but you know they have to you know assuming they don’t trade Walker Kesler they have to make um a financial decision on him this summer uh as well so you know and you know he’s somebody who the Jazz value a ton um you know so that’s the I think that’s the the rough part of what this rebuild has been for the Jazz that they’re getting to a point where they have to make decisions and those decisions um and a couple of cases are going to be based on incomplete evidence like you know next year you know they’re going to have to figure out what they want to do with Taylor Hendricks taylor Hendricks missed an entire season and it’s very possible that he is not um 100% this entire season coming up um you know so you you know you’re going to have to make a decision based on that um I think that um I think that because of that you know there there are going to be be some tough spots and and that’s what you know the mileatch um you know the mileatch example uh might be prevalent because maybe the Jazz are saying “Hey we might really just need to reset the timeline here and try and try to start this over.” Um you know but you know if let’s say they go the other way let’s say again I’m not reporting this don’t aggregate me let’s just say they trade for Trey Young well then you have Trey Young you have Larry Markin and you have Walker Kesler now you know that’s not going to get you to the top of the Western Conference obviously maybe that gets you to um maybe that gets you to the plan but at least it’s something and you know and at least now we c we have pieces in place where we can start to actually evaluate people um so that that’s going to be you know those parts are interesting as well and you know the one thing that we haven’t mentioned is um Cody Williams and you know Cody had a historically difficult rookie season and you know he’s he’s taking up one of the premium picks uh that the Jazz had so you know his development next from next season this summer through next season uh is going to be a real key the Jazz need him to be good they need him to develop um because you know they don’t need to wake up uh two or three years from now and see that they you know essentially wasted a lottery pick um in the in the 2024 draft so you know there you know Williams is is going to be a real key figure on this year and next yeah Cody Williams by a lot of metrics like had one of the worst statistical like not just rookie seasons but like total se like among all players so that’s going to be huge cuz yeah if they if that pick doesn’t doesn’t pan out then yeah you are kind of looking at as you mentioned they might have to push this thing a little longer it’s already been three years most teams at this point would already uh want to just make the step towards the playin and I still I I like I said earlier I feel like they’re still at le they’re probably like realistically kind of like two years away at least if they can hit on some of their picks this year uh like you look at the Thunder they missed on some of their picks early on in this rebuild like 2020 they packaged some picks for Pokushefsky that didn’t work out the following year they took uh Josh Giddy with their uh top pick you know that was like an okay pick but then 2022 they established their core like right there they had they got Jaylen Williams Cole Chad Holgrim right there like the Jazz could really turn it around in one draft uh and you know hopefully like that can happen in this draft and no later than next one and they they could slowly get back into things sooner um so with the with the veterans basically you know I’m sure like to some extent they brought in Collins and Ston and as as players that they could potentially flip later for more than what they gave up to get him uh but now that they’re expiring I’m not sure they have quite as much value as the Jazz might hope which is why I bring up well maybe there’s like an extension that they could potentially do that keeps them trade eligible so they don’t have to wait six months but you know you add a couple years and then maybe that makes them a little more attractive to to interested teams uh so that’s something I’d be keeping an eye on maybe the Jazz could potentially look to extend them and then I mean to to then I that’s a good segue to the last thing we we didn’t uh we you’ve been touching on walker Kesler also extension eligible this summer uh so in a way yeah they do need to decide if they you know what to pay him and if they want to pay him uh at the same time they could actually play things out a little bit where if they want to see a little more from him there’s there’s actually a good case of taking it into restricted free agency because they could still have all that cap space that I mentioned if they don’t add any long-term money if they’re not like extending a lot of these guys and be able to resign Kesler because he was such a low pick they can make him a restricted free agent he has a low cap hold and they could still so they can you know kind of like what the Sixers did with Tyrese Maxi couple uh last summer so I’m So I I’m kind of curious to see if they want to play things out a little more because he’s been in rumors for like a year almost now you know he’s being linked to the Lakers it’s been like a constant rumor um I think I just at this point it’s more so not so much if they what to pay him i think it’s more so like is he the guy that you want is he the the guy you want in the center of your future if if that’s if if they don’t view him that way then I think it would then yeah I think it makes sense to probably just move on from him now and get like the the type of Hall that you know they’re hoping to get so I would say that’s a yes in terms of you know what kind of player he is um my opinion is I think that he’s somebody who um can challenge for a defensive player of the year at some point in his career i think that he’s a guy who could you know he be one of those random two-time allstars at the end of a career that we look back like “Oh that guy made two Allstar game.” Like he’s like the Jeff Teague of Centers right like Jeff Teague was a really good point guard made an all-star team you know we didn’t think of him as a Hall of Famer or you know but but he’s you know Walker’s a really really really good defender and he’s a really impactful defender and I think if you put him with the right point guard um he can be an impactful offensive player as a rim runner uh and as a vertical lop threat so um I think you look at it that way i think the the question for the Jazz is this right now the player that Walker Kesler is and we can say the same thing for Taylor Hendrickx um the player that Walker Kesler is he probably makes more sense for a winning team um he probably makes less sense for a team that what the Jazz were last season we don’t know what the Jazz going to be next season we don’t know what their philosophy yet is going to be but Walker made less sense for a 17- win team he makes more sense for a team you know that’s that’s trying to really do something in the playoffs slashwin a championship um you know so he’s you know he he’s not going to he drives winning um but you know obviously offensively he’s probably got to be you know your fourth option but defensively he can be your first option he can be the best defensive player in my opinion on a championship caliber team um you know so what is that worth to the Utah Jazz um you know I think that if he’s uh on your roster you definitely got to pay him um but if you’re not you know obviously if you don’t want to pay him you know 140 $150 million just yet then you know maybe you do reset the timeline maybe you do trade him you know trading Walker resets the timeline you know trading let’s say Keonte George doesn’t reset the timeline because Keonte’s not there yet but Walker’s there the Jazz have to make a decision now you know so um that’s going to be something uh that that has to be talked about and you know that’s one of the reasons why okay if we keep Walker you know do we try to trade for Trey Young Trey Young or Trey trade for Trey Murphy or you know do we call the Orlando Magic and see what they want for Jaylen Suggs or something like that uh please don’t aggregate me this is not me reporting anything um and then you know so Walker’s situation is fascinating to me because I think in in in a lot of ways he’s going to be the litmus of what we see the Jazz and what direction we see the Utah Jazz go in uh in 2020 uh for the 2025 2026 season and beyond so you you mentioned some like a range maybe like 140 150 million like yeah over five years based on what some recent players recent big men like uh Nick Claxton Jared Allen just got in their new deals i feel like that’s yeah that’s probably something realistic that Walker Ker would probably command in his extension so one like I mentioned I think the biggest thing for the Jazz is you know is he a player that they want to invest in going forward but two if they are if if they do feel to to a degree yes and they’re comfortable paying him that amount then I think it kind of comes down to is he a guy that we can maybe get more for on that deal later if he still has a couple uh steps to go up or while is it do they get more now while he still has one year left on this rookie deal only making what four million I think um $5 million this upcoming season so for another team there’s a lot of value in bringing him in now while he he’s still on that contract so that can help them for a contending team do more things this year uh so there’s a lot of value there and then also they have the that team will have the option to negotiate with him so so you know there’s it’s it I feel like both ways is kind of like fine i feel like they should be in a good spot whether they uh extend them or run or play things out or a little longer um I Yeah I still I think as far as I think they’re in a fine spot whichever way they go with him but I think we covered just about everything Tony uh a lot of different ways they can this offseason could go still pretty unclear exactly how they’ll go about it and all start on the draft it all started in the draft though we’ll get more answers once we get closer to there but Tony thank you for joining me again uh do you have anything coming up we should be on the lookout for um what am I i mean obviously draft coverage that’s going to be wall to wall and you know uh uh summer league coverage and and free agency coverage um so you know I’m looking forward to the offseason starting this you know I I love I love the season but I think the off seasonason is it’s so fascinating and it’s it’s one of my favorite times of year because we don’t know what can happen i remember um in 2019 I believe um I remember in 2019 sitting in a restaurant in Las Vegas uh and in real time Paul George and getting traded to the Los Angeles Clippers while Kawhi Leonard minutes after Kawhi Leonard um committed to the Clippers so you know you never know what can happen in the offseason so you know I’m definitely looking forward to all of that yeah 2019 I feel like was the peak of offseason madness we still haven’t seen I don’t I don’t know if it’ll quite get topped uh I was still I wasn’t covering the NBA just yet i started about like 2021 I think uh but I could only imagine what the what it was like in Vegas uh the moment that happened uh but uh yeah everyone make sure you’re following Tony on Twitter TJ Jones on the NBA and check out all his work on The Athletic and make sure you’re following me on Twitter at my name and Blue Sky Yoshi Gazin i’ll be reacting to all the transactions of the off season with salary cap analysis as soon as they happen and subscribe to Third Apron on wherever you get your podcast the newsletter on Substack and I will be pretty active throughout the week i’ll have more streams and videos coming up thanks every

Tony Jones of The Athletic joins the show to discuss the Utah Jazz and their upcoming offseason.

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