How Celtics Can Rebuild to Championship Team w/ Chris Forsberg | Garden Report

How Celtics Can Rebuild to Championship Team w/ Chris Forsberg | Garden Report

hard hat’s all about showing up to play hard doing what it takes to win If you want to cement legacy win another He’s your third center You don’t want to pump him up too much but it’s hard not to This is maybe the most I’ve ever agreed with you Hey Bobby Manning here Welcome to a late week Gar Report as we discuss the ongoing questions about the Celtics offseason and one of them answered this week with Jaylen Brown undergoing surgery on that partial meniscus tear in his knee Chris Forsber is here as scheduled Didn’t know this would be coming Chris So we get a fresh topic here Probably not the best one for the Celtics but hey listen Any of these question marks that can be answered or it feels like it’s a moment I was joking with you before we hopped on like it’s it’s like when you asked I was like ah what are we gonna talk about like the same five topics about this off seasonason and then the Jaylen news came down and it I don’t know it just feels like uh at least one of the question marks is answered now it doesn’t answer like does it change anything about the Celtics offseason probably not you know uh but uh it certainly at least if you’re if uh regardless of whether you’re uh he’s in trade conversations or whether it’s you know you’re taking him into next season and he’s your focal point at least as you know he’s going to be there on day one and uh hopefully this need doesn’t uh doesn’t fester Yeah for sure And I I I lean being glad that this is how they went because they have a lot of time here There’s a long runway to recover for the season Obviously in this release they say he’ll be ready for camp here Makes sense I mean guys come back from this thing in season in like four week What was Rob’s timeline that year yeah that that one year before the playoffs I think he was four to six and he came back in maybe four and a half like you know and not probably not the best example because they became an issue in the aftermath But um they they you know when you think about I mean what are we 12 weeks out from from from like even guys returning in in September October So feels like they got a big runway here just as you said to to make sure that this thing heals to get him off his legs Now I don’t know if he’s going to be able to do any underwater workouts like you know whatever his normal plan of attack is Um and that stinks because like he’s so good about going away for the summer and kind of finding something and and honing in Um but you know he’s creative I’m sure he’s going to find something He’ll be he’ll be he’ll do something to to to keep to keep the the cardio up and the and and all that And uh but you know it’s kind of wait and see on on what he looks like when he gets back out there Uh again silver lining I guess is that they haven’t had a real chance to to downshift him in the past couple seasons So uh hopefully taking some wear and tear off the knee over the next couple months Uh puts him in position to to be the best version with what you know wherever he is and whatever whatever whoever is around him when he’s back on the court Yeah may maybe it’s because of Rob and I think back to that situation Didn’t go great with the meniscus And I know he had some other issues even a condition that led to him falling in his draft class there with the knee He’s dealt with a lot of different things there And this by all accounts is Jaylen’s first knee issue he’s had to deal with But I never like hearing meniscus cuz especially when you go this route this procedure as opposed to a repair And you know talking to some medical people repair isn’t always necessary Repair isn’t always possible And that’s obviously the longer term solution to a meniscus tear And this being partial obviously changes it too I think less severe potentially than a full meniscus tear or something more significant So there’s obviously differences I’d imagine between what Brown went through here and what Robert Williams went through several seasons ago And look Jaylen’s pretty springy but like Rob is like like his entire game was built on that I think he jumped on every play Yeah Yeah Even when compromised during the playoffs Jaylen was able to kind of figure it out You know I go back to it The part of the reason I guess I’m not overly concerned about it like that you know and you see a lot of guys kind of go in and get cleanups after after a season I guess not a lot of guys I shouldn’t say it that way I should say like when guys are dealing with like you get in there and try and try and fix that up But you know like game five of the the Knicks series was one of the best playoff games Jaylen’s ever played It’s just the consistency was hampered by the fact that you know he didn’t know on a night and the movement You didn’t see him dunk You didn’t see the burst Yeah I I think it’s all fair and I think it’s just you’re hopeful that that sort of resets it and just like you said the downside is and there’s like far more severe cases of this whether it was like I think Dwayne Wade had the whole miniscus removed or whatever but you know uh it does sometimes counteract the tail end of your career like there’s only so much you can chip away at that meniscus and you know it cushions the knee and and so that can can bring on some uh some some like arthritis type uh discomfort later in your career But you know again I think and one I think it speaks to how much Jaylen was willing to to lay it on the line to be out there as they were kind of going after it last season And two I just think again I I I don’t get the sense that this was something that uh was anything that I think they felt pretty good about let it let it heal after the season or let it let it calm down after the season See take a look at what it looks like And this was probably the the most prudent path forward for you know a variety of reasons The the Mo most of which is probably just like getting them feeling good enough to to to sort of ramp it back up when it matters So I’ll throw this out there now and we’ll we’ll get to some of the possible routes they could take this off season But you know since he’s going to recover and spend this off season off his feet and all that and there’ll certainly be discuss discussions I’d imagine about his future here in Boston Do you think this has any impact on the decision uh they’ll make here whether to entertain moving on from him or keep him here yeah I I would I mean look the Celtics will know better than anybody else based on the medicals like exactly you know how concerned he should be and all that I don’t think it changes the process much The one thing I would say is that I think we were all wondering that if if he did have to get it stitched back together and and the longer recovery would either teams that were interested be less likely to pursue him because as ridiculous as it sounds like even having to wait a couple extra months to get your player like you know teams don’t want to do that especially in a big splash move like that and maybe you know what fair or not it just sounds more daunting when there’s a longer recovery and so I think the Celtics will still uh have to entertain all possible options You know they’ll still have to listen to what teams are willing to to splurge to to get someone like Jaylen And like look maybe they just get to a point and they just say like “Hey this just isn’t enough to to to to move a Finals MVP and a guy that we think can kind of hold the fort when while Tatum rehabs.” But um I think it’s naive to think that you don’t you know every year you listen to everything right right like if someone you can even sit here and say like “Oh we never entertained the idea of ch of trading Jason Tatum.” Like yeah there’s a 99.9% chance you’re not trading Jason Tatum but if someone calls you’re not like “Oh my god why would you even call?” It’s the same reason Danny A used to call about LeBron James every free agency He wasn’t coming here but you got to make the call Like you just got to like you’re doing your due diligence And so I think regardless there was going to be calls this summer The Celtics were gonna have to think about it and all the compounding factors of the roster and the tax and the the the the aprons like forces you to think a little hotter about it So um I don’t know if the knee if the knee stuff changes at all I think you just sit there and you know like look okay if he’s here he’s out there for training camp That that’s a good thing Uh and maybe teams are a little less reluctant because he’s he’s he’s seemingly healthy I want to ask another Jaylen question first We’ll take a quick break here here from our sponsored prize picks All right the Garn Report is powered by prize every path that they could go down you’ve seen them all I wonder because this is a question I have and I’ve heard some people answer it no I’ve heard some people say this this is possible long term and in this CBA with these restrictions and all that Is it feasible to build long-term around two supermax players like could they redevelop a championship contender around Brown and Tatum both making 50 eventually $60 million a year so the argument for it would maybe as easy as like the Pacers right now So I think Seakum and Hallebertton are at 45 million a piece without pulling up spot track but it’s because everybody else is 18 million or less Like you can cram a bunch of good puzzle pieces in there Essentially you’re putting the pressure on yourself to draft almost perfectly to limit your window because as soon as you do draft and develop somebody as soon as they get good you probably can’t keep them or at least without transitioning out one of your already max contracts So I think in feasibility it like I’ve not seen it as the best avenue and I just think it’s just the reality of of how this is built now Um when you think that two guys are taking up 70% of the cap and you try start trying to put even just modest pieces around them it gets really difficult You have yourself one Derek White you know at at at $28 million and all of a sudden that that’s tough to to sort of shoehorn it all around Uh let alone a a Christophs Porzingis and a Drew Holiday at 30 plus So it it just gets difficult to do do the math And um you know I think the the alternative I think what’s what’s hard is like every situation is going to be different and I think the Celtics would love to give this every opportunity for the the Jays to be back together and be the core and you know might look a little different around them Um but to find a way to to chart that forward uh you know if you’re asking me what I think you know one of the things that as I think all of us digest this and you know I know people don’t want to hear it and it you know fans have been snapping at me and in you know when we write this stuff but it’s like when you do the math you realize how hard it is And it’s why I think you have to think just a little bit harder about those alternative paths Those paths that you you didn’t think you’d ever have to to really consider And the tatum injury impacts it right because half of those two supermax guys is going to miss some percentage of the next two years here Exactly I it it all like even if the Celtics had had sort of said in their head okay even if you don’t win this year you keep the gang together It might not look the same You might have to lose Drew you might have to move a guy like Sam you know and while that’s not ideal it’s just like at least you could then keep Jason Jaylen Derek Chris Stops Payton like you’re still coming back with a team that you felt like was a championship contender The Tatum thing changed everything And the other thing that like and and the other thing that makes it so hard and I’m sure you experienced this too is like we can talk to as many experts as we want We have no idea like what the Tatum rehab’s going to be like and when he’s going to be officially ready to play again and you know what the team will want to like okay what if Tatum wants to play at the end of next season but the team’s like eh can’t risk that you know it’s it’s just such a balance and so you know the the the uncertainty there just adds a layer of complication to everything that come up and so I guess when I step back and I think Derrick’s going to be 32 by the time Tatum’s maybe back at his at the peak peak of his powers and Jaylen Brown’s going to be 30 which seems impossible you know like that Jaylen’s going to be 30 in this league and I don’t like hearing that cuz I’m their age Chris Yeah right I’m much older now and I’m like I’m totally old and over so like I every time I every time someone says like Al’s old I’m like hey at old but it’s like it it’s just a reminder that like look this wasn’t going to be forever and it’s fun to think it would be but the way the league has structured it might just be untenable And so I just kind of I I don’t envy Brad Stevens All the guys that came before him got to a point where they had to make really tough decisions that in the moment didn’t always weren’t always slam dunks you know like you can look back and say “Oh Danny A made the right thing trading Kevin Garnett and Paul Pearson getting all those picks.” Like there were still so many variables in that Everyone was celebrating the Nets and bringing that together and how good they were going to be and no one knew the picks would turn into Tatum and Brown and like there’s still a lot of luck in like if if the Sixers don’t lose their mind with drafting and if like the Lakers aren’t locked on uh Lonzo Ball like there’s just so many factors that go into like Brad Brad made one I’ll give him the smart one Wasn’t easy Wasn’t easy Not as significant as this but at the time it wasn’t a consensus slam I’d say I from Kemba to Smart certainly with Rob like there was there it was always tough decisions that were bold like and that that he probably knew were going to be going to get some push back Um certainly not just as you said not to the level of having to think about trading a Jaylen or a Derek or whatever the case may be but yeah like I just I just think people haven’t quite grasped that it’s you have to think about these things because of the the way the rules are now and that’s no fun The NBA really messed up with how their teams that are grow home growing talent especially are being penalized Like I think there should be some incentive to draft and develop your guys It’s as simple as like don’t make account 35% Like they still get the money Just don’t make it so that your tax complic uh calculations are based on the same percentage Like take leave it at 30% Like all of a sudden you’ve got 10% extra money to work with and like all of a sudden getting some extra talent on your roster isn’t hard But look uh they’re going to have to cross that bridge the next CBA and uh for now it’s like Salt’s got to figure out what the best path forward And then you add in the like the other complication like a new owner who assuredly doesn’t want to come in and like be the guy that strips this down to parts It it’s like it’s just so it’s so layered and I’ve never seen a situation where an off seasonason is so complicated because of like a variety of reasons that teams have never had to deal with before Yeah for sure And they don’t want to be desperate right i think that’s the good tone Brad said in his exit interview there is we have good players you know and we’re going to have to get something for these guys I think that’s what it’s going to come down to unfortunately for them is they’d probably prefer to go in a certain direction But it’s probably going to be decided for them what the best return will be on any one of these guys because I think it’s easy to say trade Sam trade holiday you know work from like the guys who are older maybe less valuable per se but you’re getting less back for those guys like I’m going through hower trades yesterday and I don’t know get a second for him maybe just moving off his money holiday you maybe getting a contract back that you can move on from and just get off the 30 million for three years So that’s not helping you and you still have the same issues effectively going forward between everybody else that would be remaining there I think the whole are you bold enough to pull the trigger on on a Derek or or Jaylen Deal So Derek I think is what you have to consider here because especially I hear the Zack Lo of the world kick around his name the interest that would be out there for him if there’s a I think with Derek and Jaylen it comes down to would a team blow you away and I think there’s the potential relative to his value relative to his age and his importance here that you know a team does come away and and blow you away with multiple first round picks for white maybe a young player that you can develop and build around coming out of that trade like he just looks like such a finishing piece to a winning team at this point And I almost imagine you know not knowing anything them calling all these teams about Holiday and these teams just coming right back and saying we like Holiday but what about White especially with the contract he’s on especially with him being a little younger and more productive certainly offensively than Holiday That might be where they get stuck here And you know I don’t know if there’s any regrets about a holiday extension here I don’t know if he would have taken that player option you know the year they extended him But now you have three years of him at 30 million It’s not the worst deal in the world but it makes it tougher to move and actually get value back Like if he was on a one-year deal right now I think you’d actually get great value for Holiday coming back Now might have to move off a pick There’s reports out there of that So to me I’m keeping Jaylen around for now just because I think you need someone to stabilize next year I’m not a proponent of tanking next year and trying to bottom up I don’t even think it’s possible So that’s a fact Look at the East It’s so bad Like I don’t care what moves happen this this off season Like a team even with Payton and Derek who went out remember they just went and scored 4040 Like you’re going to be too good you’re going to be a like I tried to do like what’s the worst case scenario if you bring back Jaylen and core pieces like I like the worst I could come up with was maybe sixth in the east and probably as high as four right like four to six somewhere in there depends on like what happens like do the Cavs strip down a little bit and do they pace themselves more but you’re still like unless the Magic and Pistons are just going all out and the Pacers don’t pace themselves like it’s it’s you’re still in the mix you’re still too Good So yeah Like I just think I I it there’s no perfect answer here unless you get blown away by something that’s out there Um I wonder though like you know how does the team as they start thinking about the puzzle do they value both the relationship that that Jason has with Derek and like how much they they they really enjoy each other uh the way that J that Derek’s salary really gives you some flexibility in how you build Those guys complement each other well too when Tatum eventually returns And so it just comes down to just like you said it it’s it’s the it’s what we don’t know It’s like what does Brad know about what he can get for these guys and you know that that still makes it a tough decision but maybe it’s a little easier when you when you when you start having the the info that can put the the puzzle pieces together Uh and in typical Brad fashion we we are unlikely to know what that what that move is until it happens because um they keep everything close to the vest and there’s no incentive to to like even hint at what it is So if something usually I tell people right like if it seems obvious if if you feel like you you it’s like oh the seller should do this it’s probably not what they got to do because it just they they don’t telegraph this stuff Now look some of it is we know that math-wise like there’s some moves that make sense that if they do do the sort of thread the needle uh path forward okay Drew and Sam get you there They get you under that 20 million But um the the bigger moves are a little bit more complicated to figure out and probably involve three teams or four teams or five teams or six teams or whatever the case may be And um it it’s just going to be wild to see when it when when the dominoes start falling Yeah the team could flip completely this summer And I wouldn’t put that past them just because there’s a tax implication here too And that one to me if if they want to keep this thing together to some degree next year they’re probably going to have to pay some amount of tax Like they could probably slash most of it off and have it be manageable like 10 to 20 to 30 million in tax next season Certainly they’re not going to pay 200 as it stands now um for next season So there’s going to be some slash going on get get off the apron this year and then Kristoff’s money comes off the following year and you’re you’re sort of like you have the ability Let’s talk about Kristophs because I think he’s an interesting one here The consensus seems to be that they’re going to try to move off him and I’ve seen a couple reports that that’s the case now from a couple different people I don’t get that because two of your centers are free agents I have no idea what’s going to happen there And those are really big questions where Luke’s going to end up and Al who is teasing retirement or a departure possibly you know in his exit interview there Maybe he comes back on a minimum I’m sure the door will be wide open for him to come back on a minimum and probably not much more than that I’d say just based on where they’re at as a team Uh so that probably puts the ball in his court to what he wants to do at this point Um and you know he’d love to have him back if he departs or retires uh you know you got a championship with him He’s in the late stages of his career I think anyone will be happy with any decision he makes So uh certainly you’re not counting on him for two years from now when Tatum returns anyway at least being a major part of this puzzle So you know Al is in the late stages of his career Luke is a guy who hasn’t gotten a payday And if there’s one out there you have to imagine he’ll at least heavily consider it after the year he had And then Porzingis illness aside and I know there’s a lot of frustration out there with his illness is guy who compliments Brown Well the numbers are outstanding for those two I’m sure you have them stored somewhere Chris Um he’s still relatively young Hasn’t hit 30 yet Injury prone certainly But do those injuries and his lack of availability allow you to keep him around at a much lower salary number after next season i think that’s enticing I don’t think you have a long-term plan at center So if you offload him on top of potentially Horin and Cornet departing I don’t know what the plan is at center And you can’t just draft a center and expect him to be ready especially where they’re drafting So I I have to think Porzingis will be back next year unless he moves and a center comes in as a stop gap piece Yeah And and that’s sort of align with you Like I keep hearing people throw his name into the conversation and I’m like I how like his value has never been lower from him for him from everything you’ve explored Like like wouldn’t you at the very least wait through FIA and him playing for Latafia at least showing like he’s back to some level that would increase his value So maybe that opens the door before training camp like if he goes out there and he plays and everyone’s like oh like look he’s not gassed he’s he’s old Chris stops doing unicorn things um looks reinvigorated but even then like if I’m sellers as you said like what would you just kind of like if you can fit it all together if he’s part of the puzzle at least this year um there’s always a chance that he’ll come back at a reasonable number And I wonder if that sort of solves a little bit of your front court puzzle deep into the future It’s amazing how thin they look there now They were so deep the last couple years It is crazy And like just like you said like every time I try to make a case I’m like Al’s never left money on the table You know he went to Philly when that deal was there And I think we all understood it you know like hey that’s a lot of money 103 million back then and you know the options and all that and it went bad and he was able to kind of figure it out and go to Oklahoma City and get back here and and and and he’s certainly been fantastic you know but if if he’s looking at this roster you know he probably needs some time to figure out if he wants to be here and what you know is he willing to play for is there another playoff team that’s out there that says like “Hey we need we need a guy like you a winner the proven veteran we got some more money that we can spend than the Celtics can You know there’s there’s going to be options I keep you know I keep floating it and I don’t it’s not any it’s not informed It’s just you know when you start thinking about like what a player in that stage of their career would want to be you know there’s probably a thin number of teams that Al would would be willing to play for right like almost assuredly Boston is maybe it’s just Boston and done but he but he does have those Michigan roots So I always think about a team like Detroit you know and a good point His family still there You just start thinking about what makes sense Atlanta not really You know they that ship is probably does have a house there Yeah You know so it it it all comes down to kids like you got to balance this um as it goes So I’m interested with him with Luke He already took one discount I don’t you know you just at some point you can’t take two And I think he wants to be here He’s got roots here now too You know doesn’t want to uproot his young family and take them take him somewhere else But um if he already left money on the table on the last deal and could have had some opportunities to make a lot more than he than he did signing the minimum uh I think he has to he has to think at some point you know is uh is is is being sort of the the Boston legend uh valuable enough to to uh to navigate you know what could be again some some lean times here with no guarantees uh and leave money on the table again and you know what he might he’s the sort of dude that might just be like “Yeah I I just want to be here.” They understand me They allow me to play to my strengths I’m going to always be in the conversation for my next deal you know but it’s tough I I wouldn’t think it would be more than another one-year deal or two-year deal like you know option like something like that Um they just got to they got to I think they know too Like Luke’s got to do right by himself after after being the team the first guy last year to keep this keep this core together And so man it gets thin in a hurry Like how many minutes you playing Nimi and like is is he even back on this roster like partially guaranteed right like you know there’s there’s no there’s no one that like a short is going to be back in this front court So um yeah I think whatever maneuvering they do make part of the the calculus has got to be um can you get a a a young piece back at that position that that could help and again if I had to say the most likely person that I think will be in that front court is probably Christophs I agree So you’ve mentioned the thread the needle approach That seems to be your preferred one rather than a tear down or certainly they’re not going to keep everything together here What does that look like to you as you start to think about it more and more like you know I know Holiday Porzingis Hower the names floated most here All three of those guys gone most likely in that scenario or you know is there surprise white brown again it’s it that that path to me is more staggered where you you’re probably I mean like and I feel so bad It’s like it’s not like Drew fell off a cliff last year No I know everyone just says get rid of Drew So right It’s like in a vacuum you would love to keep this core It’s just it’s just not tenable So you you you have to and and as you said like I’ll be interested to see I do think that it’s the the at least the perceived interest around the league You know the fact that you’ve heard a couple teams from Dallas to the Clippers at least at least intrigued by the idea suggest I love the Dallas idea Yeah Like maybe you don’t have to get a pick there but even then if you’re bringing in a third team to dump some of the salary then you probably are moving some capital Maybe it’s not a first but maybe it’s you know Brooklyn’s just waiting Yeah So you’re put it this way you’re you’re going to have to you’re going to have to get creative and uh you know from there because you need to still trim a little bit more if nothing else than to entertain the idea of Luke and and Al you know Hower with Baylor having emerged a little bit last year and and uh you know you got to think about that option because Sam has legitimate value and I know you said like you think only only second round picks and that’s probably right Like I don’t see anyone dangling first for Sam Um but being able to be absorbed whether it’s through like Atlanta’s got trade exceptions or using the mid level that that that a few teams will have the option of using You know Sam is movable You could put him in a situation from San Antonio Like Orlando’s a little trickier but like you start looking at one young player you could get and maybe maybe try to get a pick out of it you know like again it’s it’s going to take these certain deals and it’s so unfair I go back to an undrafted dude you you develop them like you shouldn’t have to move on from these guys and yet contract kicks in It just gets harder when you’re so topheavy the way the Celtics are So to me that’s like path of least resistance is making those moves here in year one getting below the second apron eliminating some of the restrictions on how you build the roster kind of waiting and seeing on Tatum and like how that looks and when he’s ready and then you know what what’s weird is that he could come back the year later and you’re still like trying to trim and so then you got the decision on on Kristoffs about you know how just how eager are you to start getting rid of the repeater and um you know maybe that just comes down to how how competitive you feel in the Eastern Conference they’re going to get there eventually And um you know maybe at that point you that you know that’s the sort of the thread the needle uh approach is just like kind of taking it by stage um and hoping to stay a little bit competitive hoping to really ramp things back up when when Tatum’s a go uh without compromising the core completely in the first in the first whiff here But um you know the the easier path to eliminate all those restrictions is the blow it up one And uh again like I I hate even thinking about it cuz it would mean probably much more lean season next year but ultimately it puts you on a path to being rebuilding around Tatum and core pieces And it probably does look like instead of us sitting here and talking about Drew and Chris and Sam it’s more like you’re moving Derek or Jaylen and keeping Sam and like trying to find different ways to like pat out the end of the roster Um um it’s just each way is a little bit daunting on its own Yeah And this thing’s cyclical too which I think people have to consider to some degree because say you do blow it up now it it’d be awful Everyone would be in agony and it would hurt for a year or two But then do other teams end up in this crunch a year or two from now and you’re positioned to pick up players from that i think that’s how this thing’s supposed to work in terms of the parody here in the league though you might benefit from it down the line if you make a tough decision now because no one wants to make that decision You know there’s numerous teams that are stuck in the middle across the league Miami Atlanta you teams up and down the standings that just can’t get out of that middle ground And that’s what you worry about ending up stuck in here if you can’t make moves Good draft picks additions You remember where this team was in 2021 after some tough draft picks at the tail end of the age run there that didn’t translate for you at the very least Nmith Romeo those sort of things So you know you don’t want to end up in that spot again And this draft’s going to be interesting here You’re picking from 28 again I think picking at 30 last year Brad’s first first round pick went well in Shyman I probably would have guessed he would have played a little more last year than he did but by the end he got there and and showed some good stuff I know we had him on the other day and I I do sense some disappointment from him They didn’t get quite as much of a shot as he maybe thought he did a year ago and he definitely will this year I’d say based on some of the changes we’re going to see So that might work out We’ll see 28 32 this year You know you mentioned the Hawks too I want to throw that out there because if they are a Hower team could you could you move up to 22 give them 28 you know while handing houses It’s probably the dream how your trade if you could do it But um you know when you look at the draft right now I know you’re starting to look at some guys Don’t ask me because I have no idea If I wasn’t asked to put these stuff together and I didn’t have like smart like we have a couple college hoops guys here and I’m like please tell me what I should be saying here because uh naive on it I honestly like in general you know when when Brad did that press conference and you know I got him for a few minutes afterward he was sort of saying like watch how many guys end up going back because the NIL money is so good and now you I’ve heard they’re not thrilled about 28 and 32 in this class Yeah And so to me it’s like I one if you have to swallow hard and use those picks to get off salary you don’t want then probably this might be the year to do it Yeah And so like use them now because I don’t want to move any 2026 picks with you know this this draft that could be super robust You know if you are starting to think about the future you’re you’re probably you’re probably making moves trying to get 26 You’re you know if you entertain the idea of like 28 even you’re trying to get back your swap you know like whatever the case may be So um you just you just start you’re starting to longterm plan uh with those picks I I honestly think there’s an there’s a chance this draft is very quiet Like and it’s weird because if you think next year is going to be a transition year it would probably help to have some young talent in to just like kind of throw into the fire Um but is it available like do you trust that what you’re going to get is going to be long-term playable talent and will Joe even play him you know if he’s not playing Shyman you know like you just got to balance it all And so I wonder if it it’s almost better That’s why I keep thinking about they do have to swallow hard and move Hower can you find someone young that is at least a little bit more proven that you’re like you think can be a guy um you know again I keep throwing the Spurs out there because if the Spurs trade for Durant or Giannis or whoever you know they still have some flexibility to add and I wonder if they would use their like if they stay under the task could they use the non-t taxpayer and um there’s pathways for them to add a houser and send out a Champenny we can we can complete the champenny collection here and you know get maybe a second round pick or whatever and I wonder if there’s just a guy that you could that it’s it’s a bad comparison here but you know like in the vein of Derek White where you were like that guy’s got more than what he’s shown on that team and we can bring it out of him you know you know who is that guy that Brad really likes around the league and is willing to maybe you know it hurts to make a move here but you’re getting back a guy that could develop and be a core piece once Tatum’s back at the peak of his powers first Yeah I I guess you’re telling me I don’t need to become an expert on this draft I’m You know what i’m like I’m treading cautiously Bobby I’m not like I’m not I’m not investing the sort of energy I did in uh let’s say uh the Nesmith draft or uh when we were uh we we we uh we take a couple victory laps around here cuz uh and it it’s not like there’s a lot of people saying it but especially when Hallebertton started to slide we’re like “What got to get up and get him I know they’re robust at point guard right now but you need to go get Hallebertton.” So at least a little validation for the one year that I put in the effort to know these dudes By the time this comes out will the Knicks have asked to interview Joe Mazula uh they will have Uh I think that we were joking about it on our program today that that you know when at what point did they call the Suns and and ask for uh Jordan not to uh to interview even though he just got hired like they’re just calling every team in the league that that has an a coach and and and trying it out Um uh at what point did they call Tom Tibido and be like “All right you know what come back We missed we messed this one up.” Um yeah I don’t know They look so goofy doing all this after Friday Don’t you want to have an idea of who you want if you’re going to move on from a Tibido and now I I I suspect they will have a coach by the time this airs because I suspect what they’ll do is just take whatever is like available Johnny Bryant or whatever you know like you know just trying to to make the most of it uh and save face because how many more times can you get rejected before it’s like oh boy Um I don’t I don’t know This is a James Dolan special if I’ve ever seen one I will say though I’m a big Mike Brown guy and like there’s there’s a lot worse coaches you can do out there than giving Mike Brown another try and like the Cavs did it four times and Kings and all that It was unfortunate he got moved on There’s some good coaches out there Uh I’m almost surprised when when it f the news first came down I was like oh maybe they just want Mike Malone and they want to make a play for a for like an established star like oh look this guy was at least there with Joic and but the fact that they’ve completely just butchered this after having their best season in years is is so on brand for the Knicks I did want to hear your thoughts on Joe going into this transition era right because he’s had amazing rosters first three years The first year was challenging with some of the pieces in transition and taking over for EA and all that So I always give him some leniency for that year The next two years were great and a championship right in the middle So there’s been some disappointments with him I don’t know the contract situation And I I hear that keep getting talked about and you know I haven’t confirmed anything there but you know Shams did you know put out there with the extension in 2023 that would run him through this year So three years makes sense with this year being the last Um I I would suspect there’ll be an extension I I don’t think of any reason why there wouldn’t be Um you know maybe this ownership group thing needs to go through or they have other priorities first here But my question is just what you’re expecting from Joe as they enter another error here Is there going to be some adjustment in terms of the system and how they do things with different personnel here you know even just dealing with more losses Yeah it’s inevitable right like all they’ve done is win and expect to win through all these games The one thing I’ll say though is they’ve won a lot of games under him with guys missing that you didn’t expect them to And that gives me probably more optimism than anything else It’s it’s a great point and I think you know he’ll come into the year with an expectation that nothing will will will change Oh for sure And I I think he’ll stress that upon his players and say like “Look I trust you guys.” And that’s probably the the the message you should impart I think the harder part for him is going to be is if they do start hitting the bumps in the road how does he handle it you know does he have to tweak his own you know the way he projects at the podium the way he answers questions you know like and I guess you always want someone to be authentic but just to embrace the reality that you know there could be some some bumps here And um you can’t just take the approach of like we’re going to figure it out You know might be might be a little bit deeper than that Um and so I suspect he’ll he’ll he’ll adapt and he’ll figure it out And uh you can’t be the the orcas every year You got to you know you can’t sit there and yearn for the target The the goal is to figure out how to get back to where you’re in that conversation And you know it just might take some time Uh but every indication is Brad remains smitten with what he’s done And I do think that the the the the extension could tell us a little bit about like how it’s perceived like you know obviously they they moved quick at that that All-Star break to to give him that security before he went out there and um you know reward him for for being thrown into a tough situation and and thriving at the start of that year Um but yeah like it’s it’s something they have to they have to think about especially there’s there’s as the Knicks are finding out there’s not a der of uh of of of very good coaches out there that you can just you know cycle through And so um it’s uh it’s one of the the fascinating subplots is just how how he handles this And just again you know if you do skew a little bit young or try to develop some more talent um maybe Joe needs to go back to his roots a little bit more when he like first got here and was you know he used to talk about how he really embraced the the second unit guys or even third unit guys and worked with them every day because that was his job and then he you know got promoted and it’s only natural you’re focused on the top guys Um he found a better balance of that I think um you know whether it was last season or maybe even the tail end of the year before But um I do think he’s he he needs to to really invest in these guys and and find a way to to get the most out of them Yeah And we’ll see who’s there Stuff’s going to get moving soon Finals wrapping up first I was going to say oh whoever is there right yeah I have to imagine there could be some big changes this summer based on things moving and shaking around the league and their money situation here So Chris has done a lot of the possibility you know theorizing the possibilities over there NBC Sports Boston So go check out his work over there Watch it on TV Check it out on the website side where he does great work Appreciate you stopping by here Chris Thank you Bobby I don’t suspect this will be the last time we talk about some offseason craziness Hopefully we’ll have some more details of uh what this all looks like sooner than later All right And we will talk to the rest of you sometime next week unless news breaks So subscribe CNS media Celtics all access Turn on notifications just in case because it’s that time of year And we’ll have some more shows for you next week Talk to you then No one’s sneaking a vegan brownie by me I’ll tell you that Okay You know what John we’re going to do it You have to feel that way too Bobby I have to feel that way A slide out over and and make Luke your first center Bobby we gave you Luke an hour earlier We are not going to end this on a damn conversation about Luke [Music]

On this episode of The Garden Report Bobby Manning is joined by NBC Sports Boston Reporter Chris Forsberg. The duo react the Jaylen Brown news and discuss the future of the Boston Celtics from the possibility of trading Jaylen Brown to Derrick White and why the Celtics might keep Kristaps Porzingis.

0:00 – Intro Guest
0:28 – Jaylen Brown gets surgery
5:50 – More or less likely there’s a Jaylen trade? 
7:58 – Prizepicks
11:01 – How will Celtics build into the future? 
18:33 – Would you do a Derrick White trade? 
23:08 – Could the Celtics keep Kristaps Porzingis? 
29:03 – Forsberg’s Celtics plan: “Threading the needle” 
33:47 – What will the Celtics do in the NBA Draft? 
37:34 – Will the Knicks ask to interview Joe Mazzulla? 
38:15 – Who will Knicks hire as Head Coach?
39:05 – Joe Mazzulla future with Celtics
42:28 – Wrapping up

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