Utah Jazz | Game Theory Offseason Preview

Utah Jazz | Game Theory Offseason Preview

hello and welcome to the Game Theory podcast offseason preview series where Bryce Simon and I dig deep into every big decision that your favorite teams have to make this summer today we’re going to talk about the Utah Jazz but before we get to the Jazz we got to shout out the listeners of the show thank you all for subscribing we’re up around like 43 44,000 YouTube subs uh YouTube subscribers at this point we appreciate you guys immensely for coming to hang out rock with us and for making this offseason preview series such a success go subscribe on the YouTube channel go subscribe over on the podcast feed hit the like button while you’re here thank you for coming to support the show but Bryce let’s talk about the Jazz important summer forthcoming they were if not the biggest loser on lottery night certainly one of them i just don’t know kind of what their I know what their plan is i think they have really smart people like in their front office and within their organization ryan Smith seems like a super committed engaged owner danny A obviously has built really strong Boston Celtics rosters is like the senior adviser i think Justin Xanic is super super sharp really really intelligent guy you know at the top of their front office they just bring in Austin Haynes who is known as one of the higherend evaluators leaguewide when you talk to people uh across the spectrum I I really like what they’ve done in terms of building out that front office lot of other sharp people uh across the board uh below those people as well will Hardy is a fantastic coach I think and a great guy to kind of be able to build through this thing i I am so so so impressed with that piece of it it’s just that they haven’t gotten lucky enough to get the guys yet and obviously this time they lost out on the lottery as well and they’ve made some interesting evaluation choices as well that we should talk about yeah I was going to say you know we we’ve led off uh the last few of these talking about the lottery situation and is it working is it not lottery luck and ultimately like I say a lot of times our main point is like it’s not deterring tanking so is it working anyway and one thing with some of these teams is you could still have drafted better players than what you ended up with in some of these spots even if they’re not stars there was still better evaluations to be made and this is a roster that’s just it’s fascinating like I don’t know what to make of it they have like five guards that I think are guards off the bench and no guards that I think should be starting for your team they have like when you look at their cap situation Sam it’s amazing cuz it starts off with this uber deal to Lowry Marketing which I know we’re going to talk about and then you get the three expiring contracts that we’re also going to talk about and then all of the rookies so it’s like outside of Lowry there’s no long-term money other than rookie scale deals that they’re going to add to again i just don’t know what to make of them i don’t know where I feel like they actually are right now cuz they do have Lowry but I’m like do they have the star face of the franchise they’re paying him all this money now while they’re losing it’s just it’s a very interesting situation to figure out and see how they’re going to build it truly out build it out and become competitive so let’s start with Lowry i feel like it is probably the biggest decision they have to make this summer at the end of the day is whether or not to keep Lowry or cash in on him the thing I would say here is like I don’t think they will just move him for like very little right like I think they’re going to want a real hall for him if they’re going to trade him his deal is very expensive like it’s a fouryear $196 million contract that’s a lot of money to pay a guy who I don’t know like here’s a good question this is where we’ll start this right do you see Lowry Markin as a number two or a number three if you’re a really high level team okay so I’ I’ve tried to play this out because the thing is if he’s a number three you have to be in a very unique financial situation where your number one or number two has to be on a rookie contract just straight up has to be um or else you’re in trouble building out the rest of your roster so in regards to that I think he needs to be the number two two years ago I would have said unquestionably yes i don’t know if I’ve like like his numbers have gone down since then you know last year at 19 a game and then the the shooting percentage just weren’t good i want to give him the benefit of the doubt in that if he ended up in the right situation with a true like primary on ball guy that’s making his life easier that he could still do that he’s back up in the 22 to 24 points per game on good efficiency with the versatility of his shot making and uh you know athleticism and all of that so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt as a average number two i don’t know that I see highend number two right now based off the last year but assuming health and being in that role I I’ll give him number two an average number two maybe a lowend number two i think he can be a number two the numbers here are you know somewhat important i guess he averaged 19 on 4235 888 the two prior years he was at like 24 and8 on 493989 basically like he was a monster those last two years that’s a high-end number two Sam you know like that’s why I’m struggling right now like cuz if he’s that guy he’s a high-end number two so the thing is he dealt with like a back injury that he kind of you know just had throughout the course of the year last year that was frustrating and then he also had like that knee injury that he got at the beginning of the season if I remember correctly someone like bumped his knee or something trying to like think back in my head in terms of like watching the Jazz but that that like is almost like I’m willing to throw that year away like they have no no point guard play to speak of they have no like vets around him outside of John Collins really to speak of and I guess Jordan Clarkson but like comes off the bench is what it is right ston is there not really a point guard much more of a scorer he is a guy like you said that needs somebody to set the table for him i think if I was Utah I think I would listen to offers and see what’s out there but it would require like a real like I’m getting the equivalent of like three or four first round picks back before moving him because I do think that last year is kind of a write-off and I wonder if they would be selling him low if they were to do so now in in a way that would be worrisome given what he dealt with injury-wise this past year that was exactly my thought you know as I read you know line number one cash in on Lowry or keep him around and my initial thought was I’m not cashing in on him low i’m not selling low on him right now because he very much seems comfortable playing for the Jazz and that’s the other thing man like so do I want to just trade that guy that even through all of what we’re going through right now has been willing to lock in i know money is a big part of being willing to lock in but you have to think you’re going to build this thing out in the next couple years and he would be a valuable piece of that buildout assuming they can get the number one star in some capacity over the next couple years so I would not sell low i could see teams a team around the league looking at him as a true number two and again you have to I think because of the contract and then you can look at maybe getting the right hall for him that that would have to be the scenario though that either a team looked at those two previous years or you can convince them on those two previous years and that last year was an admiration and that’s not who he is he’s a real number two for you so like a team that could theoretically make sense is the team behind you right detroit sure would you move all of Tobias Harris Jaden Ivy Ron Holland and like a first for him so my thing has been I’m not making this move this off seasonason if I’m Detroit i I’m waiting to see how this thing plays out i want 50 more games because why am I trading Jaden Ivy for Lowry Markin and that contract when even if he’s never the productive player Lowry is what if he’s 85% of that on a smaller money deal and I just have him right here and I didn’t have to move Holland and a first along with it you know what I mean i I I’m willing to be more patient if I’m Detroit the name that comes to mind for me is San Antonio because they have Victor on the rookie deal that I talked about earlier in terms of the money is that still in play even after the Fox move so like your idea is De’aran not Not De’arren I’m sorry it’d be like Devin Vel Harrison Barnes 14 and something else like is is that the idea sure i I hadn’t workshopped the idea i’d only workshopped the team um the the money is basically dead even if you do if you do Velcy’s dead even yeah so like you just like in that scenario it’s just like Lowry is an upgrade on Vel and that’s what we’re paying for here yeah so it would basically have to be to me to do this 14 and like Atlanta’s 2027 first plus Vel and Barnes or something do you do that if you’re Utah is that enough what’ you say vel Barnes 14 and one future first yeah so like put a name to a face of 14 right so it’ be like “Okay cool we’re getting you know Danny Wolf or um you know Noah Essen Gay or somebody like that.” So it basically be like Vel Barnes & Gay in a future first or something for Lowry i don’t know how much better that makes Utah yeah like I I don’t think that helps them organizationally and I’m not saying that that’s like a fair deal even for San Antonio like I don’t I I’d have to think about that for San Antonio and whether or not I would do that but thinking about specifically for the Jazz which is like the purpose of this you know episode I I’m I don’t know how much that actually helps my my organization here moving forward given that I have this guy who’s really happy to be in Utah yeah i mean it would Viselle would have to really excite you like that’s where I’m dude almost averaged 20 a game a couple years ago averaged 16 last year so um yeah maybe not maybe that’s not a a great spot this but this is kind of why I’m like all right like is is there a spot like is there really a spot like the team to me that I was looking at like is there any way that you could do financially the Grizzlies because like he makes an immense amount of sense there in between like Desmond Jaw and Jiren is like a bigger dude who’s super athletic who can really shoot it can help them but like I I don’t think you can make the money work at the end of the day is he gonna make as much sense in this like if they go to this ball screen heavy like I I wonder about usage all of a sudden in that scenario with Memphis trying to keep all four of those guys happy where Jiren has gotten a taste of this bigger offensive role we know Bane has that lowry can obviously play off the ball i’m not saying that like these guys can play off the ball like I’m not think I don’t think you have that issue it’s just like are they all getting enough touches and attempts and involved in the action enough to to for that all to make sense that that quartet so that that that’s an initial thought for that warriors financially like just doesn’t track anymore because of the Jimmy deal um Oklahoma City like sure I guess if you wanted to do like Hartinstein and like Dort or something but I don’t know how much better that makes them even i was going to say like their whole identity is the defense like that doesn’t track for me so like the Timberwolves maybe if you wanted to like sign and trade Randall or like maybe Randall opts in but if he’s opting in he’s probably not going to Utah right like that that doesn’t really track for me it’s I’m just telling you like it’s a little bit harder to find a Lowry deal that makes sense for Utah than what I think people think yeah because of the contra I mean the the money is just so big at this point yes um with him like it it changes the equation or that like because like even the San Antonio one for me even like okay upgrade on Deon Vel he’s still the third option in San Antonio though so now you’re paying third option Lowry Markin that money as opposed to third option Devin Vel like damn near half that amount of money right and so it’s and like there’s there’s no way San Antonio is giving up Castle we think right so that’s what I say is like like or or number two right like you’re not doing either of those like Definitely not doing two because what was the what was the recent one where you brought up you would rather just give up one at the the Rockets yeah I was talking about Houston yeah like I’d rather give up one player in terms of asset value if I can but what makes it harder with you know Utah dealing with San Antonio is like again you kind of like it has to be like Kell Harrison and Steph Castle then yeah you you have to match the money which is a lot tougher yeah and again I don’t know that that makes sense for San Antonio okay so again not to turn it San Antonio centric but if they have talked themselves into we can’t have all of De’Aran Dylan and Steph is it possible they decide like cuz Steph all of a sudden would be interesting for Utah right like that is a real interesting asset so if you were getting Steph and Devin Vel and Kel you know whatever and Harrison Barnes whatever like all of a sudden that gets a little bit interesting in terms of Castle and Vel and you know a future pick or whatever else you need to to finish it out i think that’s right i think if it’s Utah it has to be Castle for me and I think if it’s San Antonio like I probably think that I can do better sure if I’m moving Castle yeah i mean that that’s my thing is just like you or I’m just not moving him at the end of the day too like I want to be clear about that like I I just don’t know if this tracks like in the synergistic way that we want it to yeah this was completely like in living in a we’re stopping we’re moving to a world where San Antonio doesn’t think that they should have all three of those players was was all that aspect was so yeah and I mean like people bring up the Sixers with Paul George but like no like why would I do that if um I don’t know that one yeah like try to move up to three basically no like basically like the idea being oh do Paul George and five Paul George and three for Lowry and five no that makes no sense for Utah not in this draft no makes absolutely no sense for them no i mean it it maybe in a draft where you had three like where there’s a tear break of three guys that were just unbelievable if if three Cooper flags or three you know even a but no not in this draft absolutely not i do not agree with that i I do not track that sorry um I don’t understand yeah yeah i mean like there’s just not I I’m struggling really really hard to find the spot at the end of the day sure uh that’s why I honestly thought the Pistons were like kind of interesting but they I I think others would entertain that more than me i have just very much settled into what my approach would be for the off season for them i think I would lowball Lowry you know the Jazz for Lowry Markin into a point where they would be like “No we’re not doing that.” And I wouldn’t expect them to take it i I have just settled i think other Pistons maybe even content creators fans whatever would be much more intrigued by the idea of it what if I told you New Orleans for McCullum Herb Jones and number seven intrigued the idea being okay let’s get like a su let’s get two super spacers in Lowry and Trey Murphy around Zion if we’re committed to building around Zion like they said you know in their press conference a few days ago or a week ago or whatever that was um this is gonna I I don’t if I’m Utah though like five and seven along with Herb is really really interesting but again like we’ve talked about this Herb makes sense on a team that’s competing and trying to win a lot more than he makes sense on a team that’s rebuilding um like I’m almost if Utah I’m just like going to flip him for more assets like you’re I mean if you go down this road you’re just completely like you’re resetting this thing and it’s going to take I mean maybe it’s going to anyway um yeah I think at that point you’re moving Herb somewhere else and you’re just getting more assets you’re completely bottoming out yeah you’re completely like just staying with this knowing it’s going to be a handful more years um I don’t even love that Pelican trading herb but I know it’s something we’ve talked about so look I I guess the reason that I do this exercise is just that like it is very hard for me to find a deal that makes a lot of sense for Utah and makes sense for the other team the other team you sure that’s that’s my reality at this point here with this i think they missed their chance to cash in on Lowry um whenever he was on the the lower number and now I think like truly cashing in on a super high return is going to be tougher um because that money it’s just it’s so much money so I don’t even know that like like I think they can still cash in at some point and maybe they will and maybe we’re just like not being creative enough in how we’re thinking about this but like like he’s still a really good basketball player is the thing so I’m hopeful that they will figure this out i I just think that at the end of the day he might be more valuable to them than what people think maybe that’s it might just be that he stays in Utah and again he seems more than happy to be there so maybe they’re better off just keeping him it’s just like I mean he is going into his age 28 season like I’m not saying like I’m not worried about it but like you do eventually want to like get something out of that in terms of like either you start winning with it or you know if you do you know trade him off so um I don’t know it has been interesting trying to find the right spots the right deals that trying to play both sides for it to make sense yep that is I think that’s right uh okay next up for them is Walker Kesler i hate he is extension eligible all these sinners in this class i know right so here’s the thing with Walker Kessler because Walker Kesler was a later pick in the draft right mhm he will have a low cap hold in 2026 that means that if I’m Utah it probably has to be a pretty advantageous deal for me to do an extension right now otherwise I might just want to keep my flexibility next summer which they can have real flexibility right like we talked about earlier so yes so like I I don’t even know what to think with them and Walker Kesler because like I feel like we got reports like there’s always they’re shopping Walker Kesler or they’re listening which I don’t even know if that’s coming from them but then like the dude averaged almost five offensive rebounds per game last season in 30 minutes obviously has real rim protection in terms of blocking shots i I just don’t even know what what to think about the relationship there i think that the relationship like should be quite positive like I think that Kesler is a really good fit and he like is something they desperately need in terms of a defensive infrastructure i mean this still was the worst defense in the league last year and that was like through no fault of Keslers but I think that it’s one of those deals where if I’m Utah I’m like okay we love you we will pay you but if you want to be a part of a winner here in Utah you either need to take like this contract which is like $20 million a year $22 million a year or something and if I’m Walker like I might not do that honestly i think that’s probably low because I do think that maybe this is crazy like I think Kesler is a bit better than Jaylen Duran and Mark Williams from the same class like I think he’s ahead of them personally i think he’s a better defender probably a better offensive rebounder even than Duran i would argue like average five offensive rebounds a game right obviously a very you know efficient finisher on the interior i think that if you made me like rank those guys I would probably have it kesler Duran Williams but I just worry that because he has the low cap hold it might lead to Utah going “Okay you have to accept you have to accept like this lesser deal and just lock in money or you have to like go to restricted free agency and we’ll pay you then like we will take care of you 100%.” But that’s the situation here i’m interested to see the first domino that falls between these three guys now Sam this has been one of the funnest parts of doing this for all 30 teams is you get into these little nuances that I wouldn’t have put together as much otherwise and now I’m way I’m wondering who’s the first domino to fall and how does it set the market for the other guys cuz ultimately that might decide some of this what if Detroit decides like Jaylen Duran is the guy like we are locked in we think he’s awesome we think he showed real growth he’s going to work we’re going to give him 25 plus AAV well that’s going to completely change the negotiations for Walker Kesler and maybe even a Mark Williams right or what if it goes the other way what if like we talked about with Mark Williams what if Mark Williams decides to lock in below market value because of injury history and whatever else and he does take like you know what I just want to make some real money i’ll take four for 75 i think is a kind of an arbitrary number that we threw out well then that changes some of the conversation for Kesler and Duran you know what I mean so it just it will be interesting to see how the dominoes fall with these three guys in particular with their extension conversations and negotiations yeah so Walker Kler next summer is projected to have a 14.6 million capold if you combine that with like you know Lowry at 46 plus Hrix and Cody Williams and Keonte George like you know that’s like another 20 they’d be at like 80 and then you throw in Sensiba and Collier that’d be 87 plus you know whatever right like whatever the number five overall pick is going to make that’s probably like seven or so be like 94 i mean they have like serious like max cap space to be able to do stuff the thing is who is the guy that you’re targeting in 2026 like I know what my answer would be if I’m them like for it it’s very clearly Austin Reeves if I’m them y like he fits the age timeline he’s you know perfect fit in Utah for myriad reasons like they need a point guard they need a guy who can like really like run the offense a little bit uh you know real passer playmaker can shoot it like he he just ticks every box for Utah if I’m Utah if I’m them like that that’s who I’m selling out to get okay so like how interesting is that roster then all of a sudden you keep Lowry Markin you have Walker Kesler you have Austin Reeves now number five overall this year number five overall you know some sort of progression or grow like Keonte now is coming off the bench as the third guard the six-man archetype filipowski like a bunch of guys I think that are interesting off the bench i think you would want to round out the I think you would need one more really good player to round that out like the third option in those but like is that kind of interesting to you now if if one more really good player with that whether it’s the number five pick or something what what do you think so they’re probably not very good next year anyway right so you have another pick forthcoming assuming that it doesn’t transfer to Oklahoma City which I can’t imagine it would and I’m so I know that Austin said that they’re not tanking but like you know they might not be tanking but they’re not going to be very good next year the West is too good we can talk about taking a step forward if we want to for a second but like I’m good it feels like a It feels like a situation where they could end up with like a if they get Austin Reeves in free agency which is like a total pipe dream right but say it’s any free agent on some level you end up with Austin Reeves Lowry Markin number five overall Walker Kesler the number four overall pick or whatever next year maybe it’s Darren Peterson maybe it’s you know Camboozer maybe it’s Debansa Nate Mint like Debansa whoever right debansa being at BYU i’m sure that that would be beloved um and you still have the upside swings that are Cody Williams and Taylor Hendricks you have Philipowski like the roster actually gets really interesting at that point to me sure that’s where you start to go okay we might have a stew going here you know what I mean so that that’s where it is to me and then that to me clouds all of the John Collins Colin Saxton Jordan Clarkson decisions too because if I’m them I’m probably not taking back any money that goes beyond this year sure right because what’s the number that you’re going to have to pay like even even so like you could probably pay Kesler at like 25 million this summer if you wanted to and still have like the 45 million that you need to go get a max free agent be it Austin Reeds or be it somebody else but it becomes like a little bit tighter at that point i think that if I’m them I’m not taking back any long-term money for Colin Sexton and Clarkson is where I’m at so yeah so looking at moving those guys then it changes the calculation of what And are you thinking that’s going to hurt the value you can get back then because like don’t each of those guys have positive value in their own right though other like Collins is on a huge number so maybe not as much with him even though it’s expired was not very good last year is the thing like Yeah yeah and played 35 games or whatever so 37 man I hate that seems like a miscalculation then if you if they just have to dump those guys right i mean I guess maybe not Collins maybe with Clarkson maybe you do take something back like of real value for Colin i I think they would get something for Sexton i do yeah yeah yeah like he’s probably just like a sixth man at the end of the day but he’s like a pretty damn good one I think yeah on a on an expiring deal that’s below $20 million in you know 25 26 like guy guys like him have brought back value like Terry Rosier brought back a first round pick um you know I’m trying to think like Dennis Shruder has brought back value right so the the problem though is like all of those guys make too money too much like how many trade exceptions are out there that you’re fitting those guys into because even Oh it’s like you can take expiring deals back you don’t have to take like no money back you’re just flipping them but like the other option here is taking back long-term money you could take back long-term money for those guys if you want to and get real pick value i I I’m not playing that game if I’m Utah i think I’ll just take the cost of whatever I get if if I get only get a whatever for Clarkson by dumping him into a trade exception or taking you know just if I’m trading him for somebody else that he’s going to be an upgrade for that team and I get to only get a second round pick back or don’t even get a you know whatever i mean I guess if you’re not getting a second round pick you’re not trading him but maybe you just keep him and let the contract expire right like keep him on the roster again we talked about this a lot players like how many of these guys are good enough or are the right archetypes to help the success of a number five overall pick a Keonte George a Cody Williams a Taylor Hendris that’s a huge part of this calculation for Utah as well in terms of making sure those guys have the right infrastructure talent floor spacing archetypes around them that they’re playing in the correct roles and at least giving a chance to grow and be successful in some capacity even if it’s not wins and losses let’s let’s remove the Walker Kesler of it all here because he’s the answer to this question I’m about to ask so let’s just like remove him i don’t want to answer the question i know what it is i don’t want to play how would you rank their young players said I don’t want to play um [ __ ] kee flip taylor this is amazing already cuz I have totally different order i know you do cody call your I don’t know i think I would go flip you I knew you’d go flip first i think I would still take the flyer on Hrix coming off the injury okay i think I would then go Colin or No I would go Collier and Williams in some order wow and I would have Kee very low keont is just Kee is a like basketball junkie who genuinely wants to get better i just have not seen much from him yet that makes me think he’s anything other than like a no defense sixth man i don’t disagree i just like which one of those guys is a which one of which one of those guys do I believe is a starter though yeah to be clear like I think my my thing is that I would rather take the upside swings knowing that Keonte is a better basketball player than a lot of those guys right now okay fair i think you can make the case that there is like an easier pathway almost cody Williams might just be like really bad like that might unfortunately Cody is the one I would push back on but like I didn’t like Cody in the pre-draft process like I was much lower than most anyway and so like I I’m not I was a little high like I’m probably not giving Taylor enough because of the injury i mean it’s all very much the same tier anyway at the end of the day which is I think that’s the thing they’re all question marks like they’re all massive question marks at this point really to me except for Flip like I think Flip’s just pretty good yeah Flip so I I Yeah I’ll listen to that like Flip may be the one that should have been won and like I’m just like giving like I feel like Ke is going to be a bucket getter off the bench i guess there’s an argument of whether or not that like how valuable that is whenever there’s not a whole lot else with it um I just was like that’s that’s your backup group right there like call your Kee um you know Cody Hendrickx flip that’s a great backup five right there for you moving forward and I don’t love any of them eventually being in the starting lineup for my team yeah I mean it it’s tricky it’s a bad It’s a bad spot to be in if you are the Utah Jazz and like this is this is what like not being good and using you know Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobear to acquire draft capital has kind of brought you at this point unfortunately and I think that like this year was the hope that okay we’re going to be bad this year we have to hope that they’re going to be able to you know come around as they get younger they’ve also drafted like exceptionally young is the thing like Taylor Hendricks was 19 Cody Williams was 19 and like a stick figure isaiah Collier was 19 rensib was 19 kee George was 19 like they’ve just drafted so many like extremely extremely young guys philipowski was 20 and oh by the way over Philipk’s last 30 games last year 14 and a half points eight rebounds 2.2 assists shooting 51 37 68 like really good i think Flip is probably just kind of good at the end of the day yeah that’s fair uh Cody Williams was horrible last year but like I would have thought that Cody was not gonna be able to play in the NBA last year yeah i mean the whole upside for Cody is what he can be long term is like a dribble pass shoot wing and it’s all theoretical like it’s he can’t really do any of that at an NBA level right now which is concerning in and of itself but he might be able to do it at some point if he gets stronger my thoughts on Cody right now have nothing to do with his rookie year like it it was more so like I wasn’t super excited coming into the NBA yeah this next year these next couple years and off seasonason of growth is like either going to prove me wrong or right either way it doesn’t matter but it it doesn’t have to do with his rookie season for sure um it it’s just it’s Collier played well too by the way like we should bring up Yeah it like he was fine by the end of the year yeah he had real creation and and all of that really interesting he didn’t shoot it well but again it’s like okay maybe he settles in as my backup point guard which is which is cool especially where they drafted him and where they drafted Flip right like those are great returns on those two guys if that’s what they end up being i’m not even saying like on individual bases like all of these are awful picks by any means it’s just like I see a bunch of guys that like probably going to come off the bench even if they are rotation players and that’s okay individually but collectively you have not yet hit on the star upside player and then unfortunately you landed at five again this year and are going to have to do a really good job evaluating if you’re going to find find it this season yeah so Isaiah Collier last year in his last 42 games so like half of a season 12.3 points 7.8 eight assists four rebounds 3.3 turnovers but he’s a 20-year-old right shooting 45% from the field 71% from the line still can’t shoot from three if Collier ever shoots like there’s some real value there i think the problem is that like I just don’t know how he’s ever going to score efficiently is my problem if he doesn’t shoot it he’s really going to have to shoot it to score efficiently but like that’s where he becomes a starting point guard is if he ever shoots but may maybe my answer would be I think I would have flip one i think I would have Collier two i think I would have Hrix three still think I would take the flyer on Cody ahead of Keonte just cuz like I I look I’ve never been a Keonte guy either like I I just don’t like the style of play uh at the end of the day he’s definitely an NBA player and he’s definitely like a useful backup to me but Cody might be worse than Cody might be like really worse than that there’s a distinct possibility that he is like unplayable for the next like two years but I still think I would take the chance on his development given that I like he is a hard worker and it really is to me just like a pure strength deficiency right now sure listen I’m not going to argue with you um that’s the thing like I can’t argue with you and we don’t argue in general very much but like we will like say you know like I’m different whatever it’s very much a tier thing and and there you you may have brought me around a little bit on flip to be honest with you um but yeah like I I’m I’m okay with with my list and I think it just speaks to the question i knew what you were going to ask and that’s why do it so now getting into what they do on draft night number five number 21 number 43 number 53 number five you know we’re talking about the same guys we’ve talked about with Washington with Charlotte it’s Trey Johnson Ace Bailey VJ Edge i think VJ is very likely to be gone at that point do you think there’s a case for trading up if you really love VJ um we do this every time i would not trade up in this draft i at least would not give up a huge hall similar to what we got into with the Wizards if it was both of this year’s first round picks and especially for this roster that we just went through all of these young guys already if I thought Trey was the like perfect fit for our roster or Ace was the swing of the upsides or whatever I don’t know why I said it like that that was silly and huge swing of the upsides what What is going on um I would I would be willing to package 21 with that to go up to three or even four if I felt like I needed to to get that guy even though I’m in the same tier with that but specific this is a Utah thing where it’s like do you need two more first round picks this year after all the guys we’ve already discussed so let let’s talk about the swing of the upsides here in Ace Bailey in Utah i think out of all of the potential landing spots from three to seven or eight or whatever I think Utah is the one I like best for ace okay and the reason for that is like they do need a scorer they need somebody that is like a real swing but also like between the front office the ownership and like the coaching staff that they have they have like real infrastructure on top of like having at least a few more vets than like Charlotte does on their roster right i think that they’re the team if I was like saying who I think should do this with Ace if I was Utah I would have Ace at three I think is where I’m at i think that because Will Hardy is an established coach their front office is like established there i think that because they have like some veterans on the roster they have guys who can create shots around him collier Sexton guys who can like actually pass a little bit too with Collier particularly i think that where I am at on it is I I think I would take the flyer on Ace if I was Utah okay will Will Hardy would like really know how to use him I think yeah and especially the like the off the- ball stuff with him as well and having Lowry there as the number one option for that team and Ace knowing that he wasn’t it who who would be the next guy then because I feel like Trey is a guy we’ve talked about thinking this would be a nice fit for him as well i would like Trey Johnson here too i think Trey Johnson would make a ton of sense in Utah as a guy that can really you know play off of all the offball actions that Will Hardy runs can really you know get creative in how you utilize him as a floor spacer i think he makes a ton of sense here which is another reason to just stay at five right because you are you are guaranteed one of VJ Ace or Trey let alone if you liked Khan or somebody else right i think Khan would make a ton of sense here too by the way with all of the the similar things in terms of being one of if one of the best shooters in the draft one if not the I mean it’s like him and Trey whatever one you want to say well and it’s like Kobe Bray is in the draft you know you know so like but um yeah I I would stay at five again like I would understand if you want felt like you needed a package 21 because you don’t necessarily need two first round picks and and to go up but the other thing is I guess to like counter that is at 21 we think there’s going to be some interesting bigs that you could add to you know the Walker Kesler Kyle Filipowski room i mean again I don’t know where they’re getting minutes with Taylor if Taylor’s healthy as well but um that’s going to be an issue no matter what so again you missed out on Cooper you missed out on Dylan but there are some interesting names here now that you are settled in at five i think that that’s true here’s the other kind of place and at number 20 let’s finish at number 21 too i mean to me look like let’s make the obvious connection here ryan Smith very involved BYU if Jerger Demond is a 21 which it seems like he’s probably not going to be there i have him ranked lower than this in the draft guide as you guys have seen already but like you know it is what it is i don’t love the fit because you already have Collier as like your playmaker passer you know if you’re doing that like I feel like you’re just drafting over Collier who you already took last year right and maybe Collier is not good enough to where it matters but I don’t know I I wouldn’t be an enormous fan of that it is a hit worth noting though at the very least uh the synergy between Ryan Smith and the Utah Jazz uh and BYU I mean players that I like for them at 21 i mean Jace Richardson being like a real scoring guard if he was to fall to 21 like that’s kind of interesting to me uh I mean God if Howard was to get there like by all means like sprint to the board but I would I would look for like some true wings like just looking through the roster i feel like you have a lot of guys that like play the four five at least for me and then like like guards like ones and twos um on the roster uh you know and again this kind of plays into how I feel about Cody but like Coward would make sense nick Clifford if he was there yeah Nick Clifford’s a great name here i think yeah Liam McNeely I think this is probably his range in the draft um I I mean if you wanted to stay with how you’ve drafted is this a Will Riley team Sam is this the start of of of the Will Riley range for you i think this is a real Will Riley spot again like I don’t love drafting another wildly skinny like you know ball skills teenager much like Cody Williams but if if they if they think they were right about Cody and they think it’s an archetype you can have more than one of Will Riley would make a lot of sense yeah yeah it’s not wrong um here’s the last question that I kind of wanted to ask you here okay is there a case for this team going to like try and go get like a real player like say Atlanta wanted decide they don’t want to extend Trey Young say that you know Charlotte wants to move off of LaMelo or say that you know Darius Garland right like you know there’s been talk of Darius Garland recently in the news even though he’s injured right now right like particularly at the point guards box I think it would really help them evaluate the rest of the roster while call continues to grow and everything like that but like Is there a case for them to go make like a splash this summer as opposed to continuing to play this slowly yeah if you don’t trust your your scouting department or if you don’t think that you’re going to land like I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t but I’m just saying like if you don’t then sure like consolidate the draft picks consolidate the young guys and go get Darius Garland and pair him with Lowry Markin in and then you know I think you would keep Kesler at the center position again like you would have to build out the roster with other assets like you have to really thread the needle of okay which of these young guys can help us win which ones can’t and using the draft picks to I think acquire other talent because I don’t think Darius Yeah and Lowry gets it done in the West um you don’t have to do it immediately year one but I I I could see an argument for that if you’re just like “Hey none of these guys,” and maybe I was a little harsh saying none of them are starters but I was just kind of trying to make a point but none of these guys are number one options number two options number three options for us we don’t think we’re getting it at number five in this draft like are we just gonna keep playing this game or do we see an opportunity here to go get a Garland or a a Trey Young and start building it out from there i think my answer to this is I probably wouldn’t do it this summer i think I would continue down the road I’m on right now get number five in the building continue to go and then have another bad year next year and then take the leap next year can I throw out one just scenar like this is a general NBA offseason for us is there an argument that this could be the summer to do it because of the names that are on the market and that maybe by the time those names get moved if they get moved it would be the time to like assets are going to be depleted after those moves and maybe you can get in at a little bit lower on the names we just mentioned or is that even like is that even how you think offseason would play out maybe but like the stars that are available this summer is like Giannis right and I mean if you can get in on Giannis if you’re Utah like I was saying that they don’t get in on those names i’m saying if after those guys are off the board is there less assets to be like to use as leverage for the Cavaliers trying to move Darius Garland so you can actually get in at the right price i don’t even know i don’t even know that this actually tracks like I’m just I’m literally spitballing as we’re talking right now yeah and I mean the thing is for Cleveland like what are you trying to accomplish here right like by trading Darius like are you trying to go get Lowry like is that your idea cuz they’re trying to win obviously so like is the idea here we would do and this is so stupid as I’m saying this like do not take this as like a serious idea please for the love of God like is the idea here that you do something like Darius and Jarrett Allen for you know Lowry and like Walker Kesler and the idea here is that like you’re and you try to attach like DeAndre Hunter into that deal or something and you know Utah doesn’t have enough space to do that though like if you look at their cap sheet like you know they’re only like 41 million from the first apron and like that adds a crazy amount of money to their books and like they don’t like that that doesn’t work for like maybe you could throw in John Collins too and he’s only on one year but like that that that doesn’t work for me at all so like I don’t I don’t know how you structure like with Garland like maybe the idea is that you just get a bunch of depth pieces right like maybe it’s like oh no we’ll do like we think Kee George is pretty good and you know we’ll take back Colin Ston and we’ll do you know John Collins and we’ll take another one of your we like Taylor Hendricks is like a young guy right but you know maybe they want picks in order to like create trade possibilities elsewhere because Utah has a number of their picks right so theoretically you could just shift them back to Cleveland if you wanted to get Darius Garland I’ll hear it out if Cleveland like really wants long-term flexibility I don’t know how much sense it makes yeah I I’m with you and to like I would not make this if if I’m Utah like I’m just spinning my wheels if I’m moving Lowry in the deal i feel like um unless somehow you The whole reason if you’re doing this is you’re trying to pair Lowry with a real dude yep agreed so yeah I mean I just don’t I just don’t know who like I don’t know who the star is that you do this for at the end of the day is my problem this summer I think that next summer you can easily make a case for it and their flexibility will be you know as we outline throughout as well that they could also play in the free agency market um depending on who comes available and who doesn’t so they they even have more possibilities in that scenario bryce that’s all we got on Utah we went for 53 minutes i was assuming that this would take like 35 to talk through Utah but then I realized they had a number of different things to kind of talk through so Bryce tell the people where they can find your work tell the people what’s going on yeah so at Motor City Hoops on Twitter on Blue Sky the Substack and then uh the Pistons Pulse podcast otherwise Game Theory podcast with Sam Vassini i have to admit Sam this has been a very long process we’re not quite done yet we still got a handful more of these to record and release to you guys but I now find myself getting a little bit sad that it’s almost over because I’ve had so much fun doing it and the response has been so good to it i I will be very proud of us doing it when we are done because 30 teams and not all of them have been 50 minutes but um it’s been a lot of time but I’m like man when this is over what are we going to do next because we’re going to have so much free time whenever we’re done oh Bryce we still have prospects to do unfortunately I think uh okay go to the athletic keep me employed over there that is you know where we’re at at this point we love the athletic go subscribe over there go subscribe to the YouTube channel we are hunting 50,000 subscribers by the time uh the draft is over by the time the offseason’s over something like that right please go subscribe to the YouTube channel please go subscribe over to all sorts of different you know avenues from the Spotify you know version of the show to Apple to whatever uh Bryce and I have been recording for a while at this point so my brain is like half alive at this point so this is how you know we were really locked in guys this was the third team in this session of recording and we still almost win an hour like that’s that’s how much we love the Utah Jazz we do love the Utah Jazz here shout out to the Jazz uh go subscribe we love all of you thank you guys for making this series such a fun endeavor such an enjoyable experience for us to do uh we will be back tomorrow with another one so until next time we’ll talk soon bye [Music]

In this Game Theory offseason preview, Sam Vecenie is joined by Bryce Simon discuss the future of the Utah Jazz.

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Sam Vecenie, a Senior NBA Writer at The Athletic, talks all about basketball. From the NBA, to the NBA Draft, to college hoops and even some high school, Vecenie has you covered in this show.