Giannis 2.0: The Evolution of a Point Center and the Milwaukee Bucks

Giannis 2.0: The Evolution of a Point Center and the Milwaukee Bucks

the Bucks path forward same path it’s always been we tell you exactly what that is coming up next on Locked on Bucks you are Locked on Bucks your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast part of the Locked On podcast network your team every day welcome in to Locked On Bucks i’m Justin Garcia joined as always by Camille Davis you can hear me on the Bucks Radio Network you can find Camille’s work on the Technical File podcast and on the Locked On NBA show as well as you guys had the recap of game one or game one game five of the finals last night as we are now one game away from the Oklahoma City Thunder being crowned NBA champions today’s episode of the show is brought to you by our friends over at FanDuel right now new customers can get $200 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins we uh mentioned at the top Camille the the path forward for the Bucks same as it’s always been and same as we assumed it would be coming into the offseason is there was um I guess some reporting coming out yesterday but just more of the notion that hey one of the pitches we heard Doc Rivers was a big piece as you mentioned the name and Duck but we heard Doc Rivers and pitching Giannis on that was a big piece of it and now the other one that the Bucks brass are pitching to Giannis for this upcoming season is look Dame is going to miss at the very least an extended period of time in this season maybe all of it we need somebody to be our point guard so that in turn would be you and that’s exactly what the Bucks did to close out the season last year it yielded the results and you know there was some of us that pointed out I shouldn’t lump myself in there but a lot of people pointed out you know the numbers that Nicole Joic puts up if you asked Giannis to play the same way I think he would do the same and that’s basically what we saw during that eightgame win streak and for portions of the playoffs as well so it appears that’s the pitch to Giannis and to that I say I mean no duh right absolutely no duh like you mentioned the last few games of the regular season when the Bucks went on that 8 and0 run like some of the numbers that Giannis were putting up was crazy like he had the 20 assist game for sure that all sticks out but he had games with 11 assists 10 assists 10 assists 15 assists like he was really racking them up at the end and I think a lot about what he mentioned when he made the analogy to the cookie jar and he’s like you know running point is is like having a cookie jar where when I’m running point I have the cookie jar in my hand so maybe maybe I you know eat my cookies a little bit slower because I know I have control to when I get these cookies otherwise when you don’t have the cookie jar in your hands when you’re not running point in Giannis’s world view uh you might be a little bit more selfish when you get a cookie because you don’t know where you’re getting the next cookie and his analogy with that is just getting the ball the ball is the cookie so for Giannis if he has the ball in his hand more uh he feels even more comfortable making the decisions of here’s when I pass to my teammates here’s when I actually go for it just being able to be in control of that and we saw the results to end this regular season and we’ve seen Flash before like when Jason Kid was here really trying to push forward the the point Giannis uh part of his game so like we know it’s in him we just haven’t seen him have to execute that way in some years so to be able to see him do it for a full season I think that’s going to be really fun yeah i mean obviously we we saw it for 10% of the season last year and to me I mean that that is clearly the path forward at least this season especially as you continue to knock around uh terms like gap year um but to me it just it elevates the importance of retaining guys like especially a Gary Trent Jr because as you mentioned the ball is going to be in Giannis’s hand and he’s dictating to guys here’s where you go here’s where I’m going to be looking for you that you know chemistry becomes so very important when that’s the case and you know I mean we I this is not meant to knock down Damen Lillard at all but when you look at this Bucks offense from your going just on both ends of the floor when it was just Giannis and Not Dame is when they really did find something and I I think a lot of that is probably um swung by those last eight games of the regular season but overall they had a plus 9 net rating in the minutes where Giannis was on the floor and Dame was off they had a 124.3 offensive rating which is pretty good camila it would be among the best in the league and you know you look at the most impactful lineups offensively believe it or not it was those groupings where you had Giannis playing alongside Kyle Kosman and Torian Prince and then either Ryan Rollins or Kevin Porter Jr in the back court and Brook Lopez there in the front court but even the Giannis and Bobby Poris we’ve talked about how much those lineups really clicked you didn’t see a ton of it it was only 88 possessions with Giannis Bobby Gary Trent Jr Kevin Porter Jr and AJ Green which I think is a lineup if you can retain those guys a lot of Bucks fans would be salivating over but again very strong offensive rating i mean in 88 possessions it was over a 150 offensive rating a good defensive rating so the numbers back up this may be what we have to transition to you know even assuming you get Damen Lillard back next season late in the season do you have to revisit what’s the role and how do we utilize that and what does that mean for the final year of the contract but if that’s the cell I I think that is the number one starting place because as we mentioned there is more flexibility and that’s a method that works it works statistically for you in the regular season we can debate the value of players the Denver Nuggets have versus what the Bucks currently have right now i would side with Denver but it has worked for the Denver Nuggets and you’re in an inferior conference that to me that’s the one card you keep up your sleeve to say look we haven’t written off the season you’ve heard gap year kicked around we still think we can be right around where we were last year if we keep this group and we play this way yeah it’s like I I don’t necessarily use the the gap year term because I feel like it’s just a kind a retool like we’re semantics for well as we mentioned not to cut you off but what is a gap year when you’ve just lost in the first round three years in a row like how is this any Exactly exactly where it’s like I don’t know how this is a gap year where it just seems like you’re you’re changing your scheme you’re changing the way that you’re playing going forward so if anything it’s a year where you’re just retooling and starting to get guys that fit what this new offensive direction is for this team and again we mentioned the new direction appears to be Giannis running point for the most part the ball is going to be in his hand more and watching the finals like my husband came in the room for it but he was saying like man these two teams are fast like the the pace that these two teams play at are fast and it’s like well how can the Bucks get continue to get faster which I know for some Bucks fans that’s a complaint that they wish that the Bucks would have uh made some changes to when Giannis was even younger so Giannis could run even more with uh a faster group but just getting some guys that can run outside of Giannis like it it the pathway forward doesn’t feel as strenuous to me as as some are projecting and I think part of it is because what the Bucks have gone through the last three years yes health played a big role into why the Bucks were not able to achieve what they were looking to achieve but it’s still three straight first round exits here so you’re coming into this season and it’s time to do something a little bit different and it’s putting the ball in Giannis’s hands it’s getting those shooters around him it is what we’ve kicked around on this show so the everydayers know but I really do want to see a team where Giannis is your oldest buck now Dame is on the team so he’s older than Giannis but I’m saying that in the sense that we’re not expecting to see a lot of Dame so far this season like if he comes back it’s going to be late in the year and when Dame does come back I think that they don’t overhaul the offense at that point and it’s still the ball in Giannis’s hands it’s just that Dame is playing a little bit more off ball and you have a guy there in Damen Lillard that you would trust in bigger spots if needed yeah and that’s going to be the interesting thing to see i mean number one how this roster shakes out with with who’s still here and and those big free agents that the Bucks are going to need to retain here or what plan B is but as as we hinted to as well and you just brought up now what’s the role for all these pieces once you do come to uh to full strength but this kind of ties back to one of the things I want to get into a little bit later in the show in that what is the actual rebuild process and how long is this if you still have this guy and these numbers that back up this style of play works in this iteration of the NBA speaking of free agents there is uh a conversation that I think some Bucks fans have grown sick of uh especially our stance on it but it did get interesting over the weekend with another big man that we saw come off the market so we’ll get into that conversation coming up next on Locked on Bucks the NBA playoffs are in full swing every night delivering highlight worthy performances major momentum shifts and can’t miss moments whether it’s game-winning shots or breakout performances there’s never been a better time to get in on the action fanduel makes it easy to stay in the game before tip off and live with player props performance trends and same game parlays fans have more ways than ever to play smart and win big if you got a read on which players are going to show up in the biggest moments and you could be tracking their trends how would that help you build your next bet maybe you know who’s heating up why not back that up with a same game parlay and think about $200 in bonus bets to add the excitement if your first $5 bet hits if you’re new to FanDuel it is the perfect time to sign up head to fanduel.com and place your first $5 bet if it wins you get $200 in bonus bets make every moment more with FanDuel official sports betting partner of the NBA so over the weekend uh Stephen Adams agreed to an extension with the Houston Rockets a three-year $39 million deal now I’ll preface with this the Rockets were linked to Brook Lopez a couple of summers ago and and I think many thought maybe they revisit that conversation stephen Adams is six years younger than Brook Lopez but he’s still a player that certainly has had a number of health questions through the years in games played i mean you look at missing an entire season in 23 24 with that injury play 58 games last year play 42 games the year prior with the Memphis Grizzlies maybe that’s the road you head down with Brook Lopez to preserve him as well but to see Stephen Adams get $13 million per year now to be clear I’m not saying the Bucks have to pay Brook Lopez $13 million right but the point we’ve kind of made is look I I get at least half of you guys are over it the market is going to be more robust in terms of the dollars that Brook Lopez gets and I think a lot of people expect and I even talked about it with Matt on the show last week he’s going to command the most money of anybody on the open market outside of Bobby Poris that the Bucks have right yes yes and when you see Stephen Adams get 13 mil annually um and again and this is not to like just try to disparage Stephen Adams because I think he’s a good center and when you find someone who fits your culture fits your locker room gives you the veteran presence that you were looking for like he has done in Houston I understand when both parties are like you know what this worked last year let’s continue this partnership going forward um and with that you look at a Brook Lopez who is an older guy 37 years old we know not fleet of foot at this point in his career we know he’s somebody who thrives more so in a drop coverage he thrives being closer to the rim so you have to go to a team that can scheme you in the proper way but Brook Lopez still does provide rim protection you have strong point of attack defenders on your team brook Lopez you can do a lot worse than Brook Lopez behind you and on top of that offensively he can stretch the floor and to have a true sevenfooter that can play defense at the rim and stretch the floor is rare so when I saw Stephen Adams get the 13 million I’m like “Oh Brooke might take somebody’s full mid-level.” Like Brooke might get that type of market and again if that is the price for Brook Lopez then I don’t have as much interest in the Bucks retaining him just because I think there are other things the Bucks need to focus their attention on and that is going to be a hole that they have to look to fill in that big rotation but for Brook Lopez he should see that contract and smile and be like “Okay yeah I I can get paid at least one more good time here before you know 40 comes even closer.” Yeah i mean I I’m with you there too in that if that’s what the market is for Brook Lopez and it’s going to cost the full mid-level it’s going to cost 13 to to 14 million to retain him then hey you know what we tried we had a nice run it’s time to part ways here but if it’s half of that because here’s the other thing um number one if let’s say Brook Lopez is back in a Bucks uniform next season I don’t think any of us expect that because of what we just mentioned i think there’s going to be interest in a stronger market out there but if he is back uh I’m not going to push back on the notion that you you should play him less number one to fit the style that you’re going to need to play but also to preserve him a little more uh I would assume that means he may be coming off the bench and his minutes would be reduced significantly but I do think there’s something to be said for having that type of player and once again having an asset that you can move having a tradable contract to piece together with something else especially once you get into the 26 27 season where you have more cap space opening up where Damen Lillard becomes an expiring contract a Pat Conetan would be off the books at that point who knows what happens with the other guys with Bobby Poris and Gary Trent Jr and those players but you do need those types of deals and that’s you know one of the things that I think the Bucks really missed on uh what four summers ago already God four summers ago when or falls ago basically when they let PJ Tucker walk and there was a lot made over the Bucks going cheap and as we’ve seen that’s not the case that they’ve paid and paid and paid through the years but um what got lost in that shuffle was not just hey would PJ Tucker have helped you out in spots especially in that series against the Celtics yeah probably but also to have a deal that you could trade because we saw shortly thereafter the Bucks got into the spot where they had none of those contracts that were in the mid level they just had the max of Giannis richer deals in terms of Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday and then basically close to the minimums so there’s importance in retaining those types of deals as well there is a walk away figure but if you can hover around there I I’m not I know the majority of you listening are against it i’m not opposed to saying “Okay yeah Brooke we’ll pay to keep you here.” Yeah and I I think the the part of that sometimes sometimes I think people just hear the yeah let’s keep Brooke but they don’t listen to the rest of the context around what we’re saying about okay if you do these other things need to also be true also don’t think of him as a starter at this point with the direction that this team appears to be going in also don’t want to see him playing you know 25 30 minutes a night consistently like that’s not the plan for Brook Lopez and again it’s not paying him what he was getting paid prior it’s a cheaper deal a lesser role to be able just to have a different pitch to throw off of your bench for another big in your rotation who does provide a valuable skill set especially next to a Giannis who has never really embraced the idea of playing center full-time and just kind of likes to have that other big out there so he can be that help defender a little bit more so yeah like again if the price is right for Brook Lopez which you know six $7 million somewhere in there then absolutely I would love for the Bucks to bring him back i just don’t see the price being that low for Brook Lopez this summer especially after seeing Steven Adams contract uh with the Rockets coming in at about 13 million annually like Brook Lopez is going to get some money and ultimately when the day comes and Brooke does sign somewhere I do hope at the very least that the reaction to Bugs fans is just appreciation for the last few years that he’s had while he’s been in the Milwaukee Bucks jersey because Brook Lopez has been fantastic uh for this franchise more often than not during his time here yeah I don’t think he’s getting three years and can he get three years uh push him to 40 wouldn’t it so I’m not Yeah I’m I I forget the the 38 rule but regardless um we talked about on on yesterday’s show too kicking around hair the magic of possibility i think that’s gone now the Rockets no longer a possibility you keep coming back to that name the Golden State Warriors who’ve apparently been linked to both Brooke and Bobby Portoris so there’s going to be names that are going to be interesting to monitor here um in terms of their pursuit of Brook Lopez and again what is that walk away figure if you were the Bucks that’s the last thing to touch on here um what would it be for you Camille of we’re we’re not going over this figure honestly just given the dollars that the Bucks have and I know that they have the rights on Brook Lopez so they can they can you know fudge things a little bit in that sense but honestly for me once we start getting to like eight 9 million although it would be tradable like just based on everything else that they have going on and just ideally trying to be a first apron team if possible this year like I I wouldn’t go above that well I would assume they they are going to be a first apron team because you’re going to use the the non lock you in level yeah I was at like seven to eight million if it’s if it’s if we’re using more than half of that um figure you wouldn’t be using the non- taxpayer mid-level because you have his bird rights but if it’s in that range that’s where I’d probably say yeah I don’t think so you can’t do 10 um so 8 n 7 to n million to me is that that figure there so that’ll be interesting to monitor here is what teams do we start to hear that noise pick up even more and we’re going to start to hear that starting next week as we are already just over a week away from the NBA draft and that’s when everything kicks into hypers speed here with the draft and then just days later free agency beginning so u rounding it back to the first point on point Giannis and how the Bucks can pull themselves out of this it does lead to uh a larger discussion too about the state of the league as a whole we’ve seen some others chime in on that and it does make you wonder look if you have a good off season are the Bucks actually in a better spot than we’ve given them credit for we’ll get into that conversation next as I mentioned the Oklahoma City Thunder win last night they are now one win away from um Oklahoma City’s first NBA championship i’ve seen a lot of that but uh let’s not forget Seattle SuperSonics are part of the uh the Actually did the Sonics win a title or did it just play in the finals now I’m pretty sure that’s what I thought i thought they win a title in the 70s but regardless uh Thunder win last night so they’re a win away from a championship uh boy you talk about catching arrows here tough scene if you’re a pro Tyresese Hallebertton defender after last night’s performance but uh let’s not get sidetracked um the notion of this rebuild reload and just the overall state of the NBA you shared something with me earlier in the day um Camille coming from Raphael Barlo about what is the real window like length in the league these days and you know this CBA as you and I have talked about many a times is no longer built to build dynasties it this CBA is is put in place to destroy dynasties and I wonder whenever this uh and I’d have to look up I would assume it’s 10 years from now but whenever the current CBA expires how much radical change we see to the new one um but I I’ve said it many times I think your window now is three years and you know if you’re the Bucks and you look at that and you say “We still got this guy he’s still in his prime we have more flexibility may not have all the assets that you would love to have at this point but we have more flexibility if we can lean into this in an inferior conference we feel like we can at least be back in the conversation not as a favorite but a you know that that could shape up to be a top four team and then who knows from there yeah exactly and that’s why you see a team like the Orlando Magic going for it because they’re like you know what this conference is open like why would we not be aggressive in this moment and go for it and for the buck side like the the message from Raphael Barlo the tweet X I don’t know what you actually call those anymore on that site but um it was in reference to Stephen A smith’s rant that he had on first take saying that you know if Giannis hasn’t won another championship he’s a disappointment like he’s a disappointment and just the kind the idea of like one no because this is a guy who was drafted where he was drafted as somebody who was not expected to contribute to an NBA team in his first year the Bucks were really bad 15 wins that first year he continues to play he continues to work he becomes an MVP he becomes a champion like there is no way when you look at the Giannis story you’re going to say underachiever with everything that he did now yes Giannis has said himself “Want that second championship i will feel like I have let myself down if I don’t get to that second one.” That’s a personal thing for him but his career as a whole definitely not an underachieving type of situation and Raphael’s point was just like with the CBA there is no longer an NBA of dynasties like you mentioned Justin they’re trying to make a league of parody where you don’t know who’s going to win it year in and year out you might have some favorites but it’s not such as a way it was you know when the Heels were running through things or those LeBron years in the East where you pretty much knew his team was going to come out now it’s a conversation around different teams and the style and they get this matchup and it might be this so I I don’t look at Giannis as somebody who underachieved he only gets one ring neither would I with Nicole Joic like not an underachievement in this particular era of basketball yes you want more but with the way the CBA is which I we mentioned like I think it’s going to make teams emphasize player development more we think it’s going to make teams the windows shorter the question is how long will we see what just uh was built in Orlando how long will that last we don’t know but you try to ride it during the time when you have it so for me in thinking of like Giannis and his and the Bucks like yeah you you keep at it because there’s a chance that things break your way you’re hot at the right time something can happen um and for this upcoming season it’s just building in that right direction like find the pieces for this new style and then continue to add onto that next off seasonason when you have a little bit more assets available to you and more flexibility and a first round draft pick yeah and seeing how this comes together like that to me is is going to be the big thing too for how the Bucks pull themselves out of it we said here’s the clear path to do so at the top of the show but you know just as as we mentioned look the importance of Giannis is it’s several things number one it keeps you relevant um it has players like Gary Trent Jr that are saying I’m willing to play pay play for the veteran minimum because I’m playing alongside this guy and obviously Damen Lillard and the relationship he had with him but those types of players if Giannis is gone you’re not in that conversation for guys that are saying “Yeah I’ll take the minimum to come play here for that.” Um the infrastructure he created and everything that has built up around the arena is a big thing but you know to get back to that second point you have a season of Giannis as basically Nicole Joic as he played those final eight games of the regular season and if we see you know under the radar too this is the oh by the way you know how Giannis finally gets firmly in MVP conversation and and not just yeah he finished third again uh if the Bucks are flirting with fifth fourth in the Eastern Conference and Giannis is putting up those numbers where it’s man look at what he’s doing it’s basically all Giannis that’s how you get there and that’s also how next summer once again teams say or players saying all right they got more money uh this guy if he’s going to be there I want to see what I can do playing alongside him so I I do think the big thing the Bucks are missing here is you know we talked about windows and what Raphael had to say too but you have to close the window every once in a while and then reopen it just like every season and the Bucks never did that throughout this process and that’s one of the things I know Ben Thompson brought this up uh with the Celtics when he was fighting the good fight among Bucks fans pushing back on Bill Simmons about a month ago and saying look the thing that you guys should do is look into trading everything but Jason Tatum and just move on and play for a year two years from now because in his mind his point was that is what the Bucks should have done after a year or so coming out of you lose to the Celtics you lose to the Heat that’s when you say Okay let’s start to build this back up again so we can be stronger a year two years from now instead of just let’s just keep pushing everything further and further down the road because eventually you’re going to have to pay that credit card bill and that’s where the Bucks are currently at right now um but I again I I think they can do more than just pay the minimums on that monthly balance yeah I think they have the tools to do that this year as well just establishing what that new foundation is going to snowballing that credit card debt at this point um and really trying to pay it off with playing some guys that maybe in years past you wouldn’t have seen as much run from like I know the Bucks only have a second round draft pick a middle second round draft pick but as we’ve seen with some guys who develop into like really key role players like there’s talent to be found in the second round you just got to be the one to actually mine it like you have to to make the right selection uh in that moment which is the difficult part of the draft like you got to try to find the talent in it um but just seeing more young guys get run and and that’s been a critique or something that I’ve seen a lot of Bugs fans wanting of like we should get younger we should get younger and the push back to that has been like well you’re competing for championships most coaches are going to lean on the vets because they trust in what they’re able to do and they’re trying to get as many wins as possible when you go younger one thing that you are going to have to account for a bit is the learning pains and the growing pains that come from young players being put in bigger situations and the thing that makes me excited about seeing that with the Bucks is also with Giannis because this past season we saw Giannis at his most vocal that we’ve ever seen him as a leader like just in the jour the steps that he’s taking as a leader for the team and really coaching up like seeing him take that next step in addition to him having the ball in his hands like one thing about point guards that you like to see is them being very vocal very communicate like so and I think with Giannis taking that step last year of his leadership style of being more vocal being very more direct with his teammates um seeing how that plays out in a season where he’s running point more consistently uh with what we’re assuming to be a younger team around him i’m I’m really interested in watching this version of the Bucks yeah it’s um it’s not a group I’m willing to just write off and say “Well here’s where they are.” Um I I think I was a little not quite as bullish as I should have been on the Magic yesterday because the more you think about it the more you look at that roster and say “Man it fits that fits that fits.” And I do think I do think it’s going to be invogue to come into the regular season saying the Magic and Pacers are the two best teams in the league and I really like the way the Magic match up against most of those teams honestly so uh that’s it’s going to be interesting to monitor what teams like Cleveland what happens with Boston and and that type of group even Indiana as we talk about the window being what it is I mean this is year two in that window for the Indiana Pacers so how much longer does that stay open for this team um leave your thoughts in the comments on Giannis as the point center for this group some of the numbers we referenced that we saw offensively with that group and um I hesitate to say this but your walk away figure for Brook Lopez it cannot be a dollar i’ll say that it has to be in the millions but leave your thoughts and we’ll address those on some upcoming shows we’re also going to try to pull together a mailbag here so um leave some questions in the comments we’ll tweet out the email address or tweet them at Camille and I as well and we’ll loop and Frank and put together another mailbag episode coming up sometime here in the near future that’ll do it for today’s show for Camille i’m Justin we’ll talk with you guys once again tomorrow on Locked on Bucks

Giannis as point guard? Milwaukee Bucks’ bold strategy shakes up NBA landscape. Is this the key to unlocking their championship potential?

Justin Garcia and Camille Davis break down the Bucks’ game-changing approach, highlighting Giannis Antetokounmpo’s impressive numbers and comparing his potential role to Nikola Jokić’s impact. The duo analyzes Brook Lopez’s contract situation, exploring how it could reshape the team’s roster. They also examine the evolving NBA dynamics, discussing how the current CBA affects team building and competitiveness in the Eastern Conference.

Don’t miss this in-depth analysis of the Bucks’ path to success. Will Giannis’ expanded role lead Milwaukee back to the NBA Finals?

0:00 Intro: Bucks’ path forward with Giannis
5:45 Impact of Giannis as point center
11:30 Steven Adams contract and Brook Lopez’s future
18:56 Bucks’ financial flexibility and roster decisions
25:18 Giannis’s legacy and NBA’s changing landscape
30:03 Outlook for Bucks and Eastern Conference rivals

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