Jazz Looking To “Turn It Up”, More Draft Prospect Breakdowns

Jazz Looking To “Turn It Up”, More Draft Prospect Breakdowns

[Music] welcome to the Jazz Notes podcast i’m Ben Anderson i’m Chandler Holt it is June 16th we are one week away from the NBA draft a little bit more than that about nine days 10 days a week from Wednesday we were recording this on Monday uh like I said the 16th so quickly the plan for all of those who are regular listeners I think next Monday we’re just going to do a big double podcast yep we’ll probably release it as two different episodes but I think they’ll both come out on Monday so we’ll do one more just kind of normal Jazz Notes podcast and then I think we’ll do just like a mock draft and just kind of run through the top 30 players on the board just to give everyone a little bit more familiarity with the draft if you haven’t really uh been diving that deep on it other top five players maybe some names to be familiar with i think that could be a fun exercise and you can get an idea of like why the draft board might just break really weird yeah uh and why uh why why the Jazz might end up with some talent at 21 speaking of which we’re going to talk about some of those players names uh today that’s kind of going to be our breakdown we’ve talked about most of the guys I think uh in contention for that top five selection maybe one more name today we’ll we’ll touch on uh and then we’ll go over the other news and notes then of course we will wrap up with your mailbag you can always find us on Twitter at Benshoops find uh Chandler Seahol Sports you can find us at Blue Sky there as well and of course my DMs are open so if you want to send in questions you can that way as well all right we always like to start with our weekly news though uh and there’s quite a bit of it so where should we start uh yeah kind of a funny thing on Sports Center yesterday right after the Grizzlies made the Desmond Bane train kind of a crazy return for Desmond Bane as well uh Brian Winhor said “No Western Conference team is tanking.” And he specifically pointed out even the Jazz uh he said the Jazz intend to turn it up uh do you take anything from that uh I mean it’s worth listening to and you remember you know Wendy is very well connected um he knows everybody in the NBA so I would listen to him in that sense now look the Jazz have always been looking to turn it up i mean I I think that’s the part that maybe has gone a little overlooked is like you know I know there’s like kind of the joke of the big game hunting thing but like Danny A did try to get Paul George and Male Bridges like they tried to get Drew Holiday like they tried to get uh Chris Porzingis like they are really trying to do the basketball stuff like they are trying to do their job and get better and they’re just have been like either it’s too high of a price or those guys have gone to other teams that are about to win a title or their camps have been like “Yeah Boston might be a better location for Drew than the Jazz actually.” So we’d like that so I think that’s you know yes there’s something there but recognize there’s kind of always something there you know teams are always trying to get better in July in June that’s when you get better uh it’s hard for bad teams to try and get better um when you are 15 or 18 games below 500 the trade deadline like why would you try and get better then but everyone’s zero and zero right now so you might as well try and get better so yes I believe it in a sense no I don’t necessarily think it means that the Jazz aren’t still going to be focused on that top eight pick next year and again you know you’re going to hear teams excited about improving their rosters it’s just like just wait until you watch Camboozer and Darren Peterson and AJ De Bonsa and all these guys in this draft class and it’s like going to take six games before people are like let’s let’s ease off the wins a little bit like let’s make sure you’ve got a chance to still get that draft pick especially because again the Jazzes are is top eight protected i think we got a question about at the mailbag so we can touch on a little bit more then but yeah everyone’s looking to get better right now and that’s your job and uh two points I want to make that first danny A talking about big game hunting in an interview on the KSL sports one I think a week or two ago he basically said like it’s hard to make trades when you’re trying to sell your players like a lot of these guys who have allars that they’re trading they already have guys or a type of player they have in mind so they’re going to reach out to these teams more or less um so it’s like if you have to sell the other team on the players that you have it’s probably not going to work most times and I think that’s the position the Jazz were in and then second uh specifically with Wendy making this uh report is I think these national reporters know a lot more about bigger markets than they do smaller markets they aren’t as tapped in so I think maybe he was reading a little bit too much into the what Austin Angel was saying for example in his starting press conference but yeah I I agree with you i think that um that’s not necessarily a new thing for the Jazz nothing’s changed yeah and as we have said I think everything’s on the table legitimately if the Jazz really think they can get better get better yeah and if you don’t don’t risk losing the draft pick it’s just like it’s kind of common sense and that’s that’s actually the approach the Jazz are taking even though I know some fans are frustrated with that approach mhm all right um and then next up uh couple weeks ago we found out the Salt Lake summer league is back it’s going to be at the Huntsman Center on the University of Utah campus um and then we just found out some of the game times uh yeah uh coming up on July 5th which is the first day it’s a little bit later sometimes they’ve started on the third in the past but the fifth this time uh the Jazz are going to take on the 76ers that’s exciting two top five draft picks assuming that both teams make their top five picks uh that’ll be at 700 p.m the Grizzlies and the Thunder tip off at 5:00 if you’re going to go to both games then coming up on July 7th so they take the sixth off the Jazz will host the Memphis Grizzlies that is a little bit more interesting now because the Grizzlies just acquired the 16th overall pick in that Desmond Bane trade that was supposed to go to Orlando so more talent coming in uh and then the Jazz will play the Thunder coming up on uh the 8th at 700 p.m also and the Thunder have the what 15th pick in the draft so you’ll have the third pick the fifth pick the 15th pick the 16th pick the 21st pick do the Thunder have any more i think that’s it so good talent lot of lot of first round talent coming in plus all the Jazz guys from last year that I expect to be on the roster and maybe some others we’ll see it’s like a six of the whole first round yeah right yeah it’s like a legitimate chunk of the first round and we’ll see if any of those other teams end up acquiring even more talent which I think is possible um all right are we getting into our group of prospects uh yeah let’s do it okay we are we were going to touch quickly on who’s worked out with the Jazz just because the names have been circulating sarah Todd’s had it tony Jones has had it um and credit them uh but one thing I would say is it’s probably more notable like who doesn’t work out for the Jazz at this point like you have a fifth pick and the 21st pick like you’re going to get everybody other than Cooper Flag who’s only working out for one team and it sounds like the Spurs the reporters they’re only working out one player and it’s Dylan Harper yeah so like they’re probably keying in on him if that’s who they’re going to pick um so you know if like VJ Edgecomb doesn’t come in to Utah and maybe he has already I couldn’t find it uh it’s like then he’s going ahead of the Jazz but you know what here’s the thing if VJ doesn’t come to Utah uh and the Jazz like him and he’s on the board of five they’re going to take him like who cares like that’s the stupid thing of like the idea that you wouldn’t draft a guy who didn’t work out in your city it’s like big deal yeah who I don’t He’s been here before he played at Utah he played at BYU like he’s been to the state he knows what he’s like he’s a high character kid like if you’re going to draft a guy he’s like I hate Utah you just wouldn’t pick him but that’s not why he wouldn’t work out here i was about to say we talked about last week about like not working out and then it being like a Cam Whitmore situation but I think VJ’s like the total opposite of that we’re like you more or less understand what you’re getting both character and on the court right and everyone raves about his character so I wouldn’t I wouldn’t read into anything there but otherwise Trey Johnson common malawash is going to come out and work out jeremiah Fears has worked out um I haven’t seen Coniple but Coniple actually just did his combine today because remember he’s dealing with an ankle injury so he hasn’t been working out with anybody but he just did his combine today and actually let me pull those up i think that’s probably worth mentioning really quick just because uh there was some concerns about his athleticism um let me see if I can pull up his numbers really quickly because he had a good showing in his combine um 2.29 shuttle this is from point made basketball which was faster than VJ Hcombs wow uh his he’s got a higher standing vertical jump 31 and a half inches which is good that’s good uh it’s a higher vertical leap than uh Dylan Harper then Jacece Richardson jace Richardson’s like a leaper like his dad is Jason Richardson former dunk champ uh and VJ Hedgecom VJ Hedgecom only had a 30-inch standing vert that’s crazy and then a better Maxford 36 and a half inches than even Cooper flag and Ace Bailey so it’s like it’s like it’s pretty interesting like again you didn’t see it on the court it’s like the thing with Trace uh with Trey Johnson it’s like you can talk about the athleticism but if it never shows up it doesn’t really matter you didn’t see like the leaping ever from from Khan that’s not his game he’s pretty groundbound but like the speed is way there’s more speed there than I think a lot of people recognize and and again it was like I know a lot of people thought Grady Dick was like not an athlete at all ically his weird spacing at Kansas and actually had some dunks in the half court more certainly more than even Khan Kipple had but uh like very adequate NBA testing for Khan which is good because you can be a disqualifyingly bad athlete and in fact there was a player that we were going to talk about next that I think fits in this conversation um that is a disqualifyingly bad athlete but not bad for Coniple there so a 65 barefoot again 66 and a half wingspan short arms eight and a half standing reach which is not terrible terrible but uh not elite but but pretty good uh leaping numbers and uh and sprinting or shuttle numbers so interesting there um as you previously mentioned uh we had gone through a bunch of players um that we thought were fit for the number five pick mhm uh today we’re going to talk about one more person who’s sort of in that debate and then seven other guys who we think are late lottery to mid20ish range players but we’re going to try and keep this to like two minutes per guy outside the first guy we want to talk about just to give you a taste because we were doing like 10 minutes on these other guys uh and the guy I do think is worth talking about because if there’s a player who’s going to be the Darkhor pick at five this is just totally my guess this is not what I’ve heard this is not worth aggregating but just kind of my feeling if there’s a guy who nobody’s talking about at five that could sneak up and be the number five overall pick it’s Caspar Yakosonas from Illinois uh point guard shooting guard 6’4 uh I think this is his measurement without shoes on let me make sure yes 6’4 and 3/4 6’4 and 3/4 so pretty good size not huge but pretty good i mean it’s going to be well over 66 with shoes on uh 83 standing reach see if I have his wingspan here uh his wingspan is 67 so not like huge but 67 675 not not terrible 205 pounds good frame you see his frame when he plays like he’s he’s like kind of stocky but not like coniple stocky he’s just like got a strong body um so the weird thing about Casper is midway through the season he suffers a forearm injury and his year falls off completely before that though and I’ll try and pull up his game logs really quickly like had he continued his trend early in the year which is dangerous like same with Jor Demond but it’s not what happened had he continued his trend for like the first 12 games of the year I think it would have been the second pick maybe the third pick like he is he was really elite to start the season at Illinois and then he gets hurt i think it’s like before the Michigan State game or plays nine minutes against Michigan State before that as this loads he was awesome he just he hit every shot he was a great passer 81 assists 54 turnovers that turnovers are a big issue for him but uh over his first 15 games of the season which is a decent chunk a Illinois was 15 or 12 and three through 15 games they were really good he averaged 16.7 points 5.4 rebounds 5.4 assists and he shot 50% from the floor 41% from three i think it was 77 attempts from three in 15 games like he was getting shots up and uh and really knocking him down and averaging again 165 and five were really elite and then after that this forearm injury which credit him he came back and played through uh even if you take out the Michigan State game where only played nine minutes and didn’t play particularly well you see the numbers really drop off he was at 14 points a game still at six rebounds which is a nice number still at four assists which is a good number but it’s four turnovers a game he’s like 1 to1 assist to turnover and you see that on the court he sprays it all over the floor and then his shooting numbers dipped to 39% from the floor and 24% from three so his first 15 games were awesome his last last 17 games were pretty concerning but like if you were to bring him in for a workout and you’re like “No he’s this guy that we saw the first 15 games of the season.” Like there’s a chance you take him at five yeah absolutely the one thing that I would say is I think for both him and Derek Queen I think they were worth the mention at five but I think they’re going to go between the Jess’s picks five and five i think you’re right i I think there’s no chance they’re on the board at 21 i think five just might be a little bit too rich for both of them yes um but with that said like you said there was the sort of tale of two halves for him um and then he ended the year 3.7 turnovers 25.4 four turnover percentage which is like awful like disqualifyingly like you can’t play point guard if you’re going to turn the ball over one of every four possessions which is you can’t do that yeah exactly which is why I kind of struggled to come up with a comp with him we’ll get to that in a second because he has point guard duties but I mean like he has point guard skill set but also a lot of the things is like you can’t play point guard if you’re doing these if you’re turn it over like that yeah and also he like I don’t think he’ll be able to guard um point guards with a scoring mindset like I think he’s gonna default to guarding twos he may even get like hunted on by some players yeah um and he is not very athletic like he is a solid defender because of his size but other than that he’s not like super quick super mobile he But with that said he has really good IQ offensively and defensively sort of like the con thing like his athleticism doesn’t make him elite but he’s he’s able to do what he needs to do in a lot of cases he is able to do what he needs to do offensively where he’s he’s just a great offensive player like he’s legitimately a great offensive player um and I believe in his ability to score the ball i think he’s going to shoot just fine he’s like a good step back three-point shooter like that’s what his game is he takes too many of them uh he needs to trust his ability to get into the paint a little bit more and in fact I think the turnovers are he needs to be more selfish like sometimes he just tries to make so many highlight reel passes that like he gets into the paint it’s like just shoot like you’re way better off shooting than like trying to split two people in the paint and then you just like throw the ball to nowhere that’s kind of his issue and that’s ugly but he’s like he’s he’s a stop and start athlete like he really gets space with pace as opposed to like not speed but I mean like change of speed change of pace kind of like Luca like really good at changing his pace so he’s really strong and he changes his pace and he stops and all of a sudden there’s all this room or you think he’s going slow and then all of a sudden he beats you with the first step it’s like he’s got three feet all around him he’s wide open um and that’s why I think he just needs to shoot more that’s kind of my biggest issue with him and again why I think like there’s a chance he’s like a legit really good point guard um but yeah the turnovers are bad i do like that he might be able to play off ball a little bit like point guard and shooting guard yeah so you if you wanted to play him with like an Isaiah Collier if you were convinced he had to be there he probably could uh and does it way more naturally than like a Keonte George like he’s a much better playmaker naturally and if it all clicks like there’s really high upside there um because I do like his effort on the defensive side of the ball he’s not like an elite defender by any means but I do think he really plays hard and I think the IQ is there and he looks like a guy who’s played a lot of professional basketball in Europe because he has i also like the rebounding numbers are there like rebounding is an IQ Oh yeah rate for me like guys who are at guards who are averaging five and six rebounds uh I really like um so I I like him a lot like I I like him way more than Jeremiah Fears oh yes no same here like I would have him way over there just because I think like the shooting’s going to come along and the size is there and like worst case scenario like I think he’s gonna be a really good backup point guard for a long time who has some upside as a starter and really has upside as an all-star but uh I like him uh but I think you’re probably right he probably goes in between like seven and 14 yeah i don’t think he falls out of the lottery yeah but I really like him i was I was impressed by his his games um I said he’s sort of like a D’Angelo Russell i think he’ll be a better passer than DLO ever really was um but also like a Brandon Pajimsky is like a comp that gets thrown around around for him so yeah I can see that yeah I get it he’s fun next Illinois kid yeah let’s do the next Illinois guy uh just because we’re we’re talking about those players this is Will Riley who uh is going to be in the conversation with the 21st overall pick for the Utah Jazz huge recruit coming into school kind of projected as like is this a 68 69 point guard just for uh uh every so everyone knows 6’8 uh and a quarter in shoes yes 6’8 wingspan so not like crazy um kind of exactly one to one an 8 foot eight standing reach which is not great only 185 pounds uh what did you think about him um it was I forget which player we had talked about this before um but he does a little bit of everything but he’s not great at anything right um he’s super toolsy wing he’s came at the combine 68 and a quarter 68 and three/4ers wingspan so almost even there um averaged 12.6 4.1 rebounds 2.2 to assist 43% from the field 32.6% from three nothing that blows you away but decent numbers all around um I think he does have not necessarily like point forward um capabilities uh or potential rather but I think that he will be like a plus playmaker at the wing forward position um however he is like sort of Cody Williams effect like he is so skinny it is a ton of Cody Williams watching him play it’s really funny uh and then he just didn’t even make shots at the rate that Cody Williams did yeah where again Cody didn’t take a lot of threes last year or I should say is his year at Colorado but he made them at a very high rate and had a little more like like interesting finishing getting into the paint and and and like taking weird hook shots and runners now Will Riley’s better just like getting to the rim than Cody ever was and seems to have like a little better speed maybe a little more like desire to get all the way to the rim but not dunking where Cody actually had some weird like poster dunks yeah his freshman season will Riley doesn’t that do that but I do think he’s best going downhill like the shooting was not good the body’s not good the length is not elite i don’t think the playmaking is actually there like I was really unimpressed when I watched him and then the steals and blocks numbers are atrocious like he’s a he’s such a bad defensive player where again like I think the upside for Cody’s that I still think he’s like in all the right spots defensively i think he got his hands on a lot of balls i think have a lot of deflections and seem to get more confident there and then has a chance to be like a little bit of a defensive playmaker that just might create you know a steal and a block a game that leads to fast break opportunities which just has value you don’t get that at all from Will Riley so I you know I don’t make a board I don’t make a draft board like that but like there are just I just think there’s going to be better players on the board at 21 yeah I agree um I didn’t I didn’t love him I just he’s just a little awkward and I get I get it he’s good height ideally he can shoot off the dribble ideally can get into the paint and maybe it’s a guy who does end up like having high upside and you’re drafting these one and done players later in the year and was just a weird fit at Illinois with a better guard who had some of the similar skills that he did and that overshadowed him but he just it’s just not my cup of tea yeah no I agree um I I see him as sort of like a RJ Barrett Cam Reddish i don’t Okay i don’t know i think that if you’re drafting him it is upside because he has a foundation for a lot of these things but it’s like I think in some areas he needs to like improve a lot and both when you’re looking at him and you’re drafting a lot of these players you’re drafting just what they do on offense right because not a lot of players are going to come in and be great defensively but you either want them to be okay as an actual on ball defender or you want them to be a defensive playmaker and I don’t think Riley had either yeah he’s neither yeah it’s very tough all right who’s next on the list um I kind of want to save this guy for a little bit longer so let’s talk about Thomas Sorber okay um Thomas Sorber um listed at 69 and a quarter at the combine with a 76 wingspan and you see it and his arms are crazy um he averaged 14.5 points 8.5 rebounds 2.4 assists 53% from the floor 16% from three just not really what he does um I think he’s kind of trying to add that but not there yet um really the thing with him is he’s a rip protector like great defensive IQ uh great defensive positioning um Georgetown was 26 points per game worse defensively when he was off the floor and I would just take defensive out of that conversation he’s just a great IQ player i was really surprised now he only played 24 games did he break his foot right he had a foot injury uh and so he hasn’t really even been working out with teams yet i think the report was he had a meeting with the Jazz yeah I think Tony Jones reported that so credit to Tony again uh yeah he averaged two blocks and 1.5 steals yeah uh he’s I was really surprised at how much I liked watching his footage um he plays heavy yeah because he’s huge he is a behemoth of a human it’s surprising he’s only what how high did you how tall did you say he was uh he was 6’9 and a quarter in no shoes he looks enormous on the court and his arms are so long and he kind of he kind of like trumps around a little bit he’s like a little bit of a Clydesdale um but man I was like super impressed like he’s just always in the right spot he makes super quick decisions with the ball in his hands he makes really quick reads he wants to shoot it a little bit more than I think he’s going to be able to um but the free throws did go in at the 72% like I think there’s a chance that he has like a 15-footer in his game where if you absolutely leave him unguarded he’s going to he’s going to hurt you uh I there was a again I don’t love to make player comps but just to give you an idea of like a pathway of how he got there there was one that really jumped out but I’m curious what you thought about him as a player um yeah I think he’s an awesome play finisher doesn’t I would say one knock on him is he doesn’t have he’s not an explosive athlete doesn’t have a lot of verticality but his like wingspan in terms of room protection except for that and has really good touch I think yes uh he shot 68% of the room which is awesome really awesome um 51% on rolls 57% on the post this one was interesting 52% on hooks like he just all the time old school yeah 100% um he’s not an offensive hub but I I wrote he’s like a connective passer like there’s some big men who just like are always doing handoffs or the most simple pass and I think Sorber has another a couple steps up from that i think he’s a uh better passer than his 2.4 number even really shows which is that’s a decent number for a center yeah sorry to pull up my phone this is where I kept my notes because I was just like watching him and taking notes on my phone instead of getting my computer out and I’ll just see I’ll walk through it i think you were saying the same things huge yeah moves well for his size not explosive but super active like he does not stop moving some of these big guys just like go and plant and stay that’s not him at all you can like see him pointing everything out on defense he’s like telling everyone where to go uh he’s physical he doesn’t know how to use his body yet like he’s just so big you can tell he like doesn’t know how to use it but I think that’s going to come uh good screener not like an elite screener but a good screener uh good rebounder not like an elite rebounder but you know who he reminds me of a lot which I haven’t seen this comp which I’m surprised stephen Adams yeah like right like there’s a chance he’s the strongest guy in the NBA for five years yeah you know in his prime and it’s just like I just think having that guy who really smart knows how to pass is a bully is a pain to defend against and just like gonna be effective like I think that’s like his pathway and I’m not saying he’s exactly Stephen Adams he’s not but like Stephen Adams I watched him his first year at Pit i saw him in person like he was just way big and didn’t have anywhere near the impact even that uh that Sorber had at Georgetown this year so I really liked him anyways I I would be I would I would like I’d be a pro Sorber guy again he’s going to follow just in between the Jazz i think I don’t I don’t see a situation where he’s there at at 21 but then again this this board could fall weird yeah he had multiple 12 rebound and 13 rebound games and his careerhigh this last season i don’t know about before that was 15 so yeah like I think that is a re I think he could be it’s hard to say because I don’t know if he will be a starter uh but I could see him being a double double guy if he does get the opportunity to he’s fun he’s a really fun player i liked him quite a bit um all right next let’s do Nick Clifford okay interesting player very interesting player um both good and bad yes like so Nick Clifford started his career played he’s a shooting guard small forward he’s like a true kind of wing yeah uh played his first three years at Colorado transferred down which is interesting you don’t see a lot of players go that direction it’s kind of a red flag so he transferred down and then he exploded and was just like dominant at Colorado State and does a lot well yes he is like I think like an actualized version of what people want Will Riley to be okay yeah you know it’s kind of funny like he does a lot well i don’t know what if he’s like truly elite elite at but he just like kind of looks the part of an NBA player he’s older he’s 23 years old he’s got really long legs he’s got like really high hips but like he can kind of do everything he can kind of bring the ball up the floor he can definitely shoot when he’s open he finishes at the rim he’s got some explosive dunks um I think he’s going to be able to play some defense like there’s just kind of like some good things there i think of This is going to be super random i think Nik Clifford was my third favorite of the non- Kasparus guys we’re looking at um something crazy he lost at 65 and a quarter with a 68 wingspan 65 and a quarter he averaged 9.6 rebounds a game again we’re talking about like high rebound guy like high IQ guys like rebounding is a really good sign for me he is playing against smaller players but like that’s still that’s a crazy rebound that’s still a crazy number absolutely um and I think talking about something not it’s like hard to really gauge this but I think he has a crazy high motor like he does like that is something that you can sort of point out for him and then like you said some of Will Riley where we talked about a little bit of everything he can dribble he can pass he can shoot he’s passable defensively not elite by any means um I think he’s like I kind of hate this word but he’s like a glue guy and like Yeah for sure there’s like a chance he’s like awesome there’s a chance he’s like a really good NBA player and everyone’s like “Yeah well he was really good at Colorado State and he just kept doing that in the NBA.” I do worry a little bit about some older guys and he does older guy things which is like what does the old guy do when you go play at like the YMCA it’s like well he rebounds really well and he like hits open shots right yeah he’s stronger than everybody like and that and he is Nick Clifford’s just like a 23-year-old playing against a bunch of 19-year-olds at times in a smaller conference uh so there is some of that there also just for like we’ve talked about like Trey Johnson and how bad what Texas did what they do at Colorado State it’s awesome like they run it looks like a professional team they take a bunch of threes he’s got a bunch of good shooters around him the m the ball moves really quickly in fact their head coaches got hired by Minnesota like was a good enough coach that he got a big promotion as a job so that would be my concern the three-point shooting is like good it’s not like you see 37% he’s not like going to knock down 37% every game no is he going to go like four or five one game and like one of six the next like I just don’t think he’s super consistent okay stealing blocks numbers but not like elite so I I don’t know like I get why he’s projected in the second half of the the draft yes and could go anywhere from like 15 if a team like Memphis was like “This is exactly who we have won with.” And by the way they’re right memphis has drafted older players in college and had a lot of success with them specifically like Desmond Bane’s the best example of this but like Santi Alama and some of these guys that they’ve gone with historically they’re not afraid to take some older players maybe Aldama’s a bad but you know that that type of guy yes and they’ve done well um they just had a player finish who was the kid that they drafted out of uh Washington State who was a longtime player who uh just finished on the all rookie first team like they they do this so Nick Clifford like if he goes 15 to Memphis wouldn’t surprise me at all yeah there’s also a chance he’s just like on the board at 28 for some reason because teams are like 23 and a half years old um anything else you want to go ahead uh yeah I think we can go ahead okay this was um by the way Jaylen Wells like exactly who I’m thinking about but like you know Jaylen Wells was exactly this like type of prospect older kind of did a lot well but wasn’t like a star anywhere and goes in the second round I was like yeah like I should have been the 14th pick like Nate Clifford could be that conversation this year um so like I’m I’m like I get it i also like I it’s hard to project tough eval uh this was I think this is my favorite player that we looked at okay rashier Fleming okay rashir Fleming yes um listed at 68 and a quarter again 75 and a quarter wingspan ridiculous wingspan um he’s a true like almost do it all four like he’s not he is a four yes he is a four he’s a sour forward um but like you’re not he’s not going to have the ball in his hands nope he’s not going to be a like a a hub big man like we tal about at all um but like other than that those are like the only two things that I really am like he can’t do yeah he’s he’s weird i had a hard time watching him because like there are times when I’m like I want to see a lot more cuz he has excellent physical tools like I think he’s a good leaper he had some real poster dunks he runs the floor well he shoots really well when he’s wide open 39% from three um he averaged Did you talk about his averages already uh no I didn’t 14 and a half points eight and a half rebounds one assist block and a half steal and a half like you’re right he kind of does everything mhm i worried when I watched him i was just like what i just like didn’t fall in love with him and I I I wanted to yes and I just like couldn’t quite get there so I guess I I’ll ask you to just like sell me on him a little bit more um so it’s cuz I’m open to it yes it’s really like for example we talked about and like when I say I like him I mean specifically for the Jazz like at the 21 okay um we talked about Jeremiah Fierce i was like he doesn’t defend he doesn’t shoot well he turns the ball over those are the three things the Jazz already struggled with the most as a big man he defends well he has good defensive IQ and positioning he shoots the ball well 39% it was like all catch and shoots yeah which is like Yes all catch and shoot yeah which is like you have Isaiah Collar Keonte like he can be in the dunker spot a lot he doesn’t roll particularly well but he sets good screens and he has good like I said good positioning offensively and defensively and then it’s like I just keep going back to that 39% number and it’s consistent improvement he’s not going to shoot 39% in the NBA but if he shoots 35 36% and then the thing that really with a lot of these players I look at if he can improve this one thing swing skill right yeah um he can do straight line like just take the ball one two dribbles get to the rim but if he can actually do a little bit of like maybe out of euro or like getting around the defense a little bit more and then he has the threat of the catch and shoot and then he can get to the rim a little bit better like he’s like exactly what I think the Jazz would want in a four and he’s like he’s a late bloomer like from his high school days he played with like a bunch of other elite players and was just kind of also on the team and got offers that way which is how he ended up where’d he go to St john’s yes um and look St john’s like they’re playing against lesser players he was there for three years like he is older that’s the other thing that’s worth noting and like that that that was part of it he got better every year but like that’s what some of these guys do like they’re just physically better than he is physically better than everybody else out there but the nice thing is like he’s not just doing like rebounding and putbacks like you’re saying he’s like hitting open threes and like those guys end up having value so like even if like I guess worst case scenario there was like some Royce O’Neal stuff there where he’s not as positionally diverse as Royce was but like hit open shots grab some rebounds play some defense there’s value there yeah um I think I would like it a little more if I trusted he could like play the five and go like small ball five and maybe he can i think he has that upside personally but like it’s more likely I think he does that then he goes down and like can play the two or the three because I don’t think the ball skills or the or the playmaking is going to be there i did see a lot of like my my fear with him and it’s why you got to be careful like with comps because once you get it in your head it’s hard to get it out why I don’t like it but like there’s like a lot of Noah vonlay there for me which like Noah Vonlay go back he’s shot like 50% from three his one year at Indiana and he went the ninth overall pick and you’re like the athleticism is there the length is there the shooting’s there everything is there and it doesn’t work now maybe the problem was novon went in the top 10 or wherever he went and Fleming’s gonna go in the 20s for a team that’s Don’t ever dribble the ball just shoot when you’re open play some defense and run and it’s like so if he were to land with like the Houston Rockets like I love that right they’ve got a bunch of guys like Tari E who do that really well mhm there are also teams that like I think are going to ask him to do too much and are going to be really unimpressed with him and I think I could see that being the fear with him yes i think um if he starts out as a like a true role player like come in spot up occasionally be in the dunker spot and then just be a help defender like if he’s a true role player his first couple years and then can slowly progress in the areas that he needs to i think that’s his best path allah and this is my comp for him Jeremy Grant okay i think like like Jeremy Grant especially like starting out um I think he started somewhere else but he eventually made his way to OKC with Denver first yeah with Russell Westbrook and such um like if he’s next to a pass first point guard who can set him up both in the darker spot and on the three I’m a broken record here um but like the improvement and like you say not as good comp but uh not as good competition he shot 29.7% 32.4% then last year jumped all the way to 39% while shooting the most he ever has yeah so yeah I I like Rashir Fleming in the of course 20s i think he’s a little more role specific than people think yeah so you’ve got to bring him in and like shape him into that role specifically the nice thing is like that’s the role he played in college like he wasn’t trying to be something he wasn’t and that that can be really valuable a guy who just comes in is like this is who I am i’m going to do this one thing and I’m going to do it really well and there one thing is like being a floor spacing power forward specifically so it’s like it’s like a it’s like a lesser version of Taylor Hendricks for me now and like he could end up being a better player than Taylor you know what I mean just because like Taylor’s trying to figure out exactly who he is and like Rashir knows that’s the value there and I should say despite the fact that he played three years he’s still only 20 yeah uh he won’t even be 21 on draft night yet so he’s he is young for his junior year compared to his class so he’s he’s really interesting i totally get it like I would hate him if he goes to Brooklyn yes i would like him if he goes to Orlando yeah you know I would you know so you just got to understand kind of like how much more are you expecting to get out of him i think that’s going to be really important for anyone who drafts him but yeah the shot making is there and I think like if he can really guard fours which might be a little bit more niche than we recognize there’s value there for sure um all right let’s get one of the We have two big men left let’s get one of them out of the way do you want to talk about Let’s talk about Maxim Reno okay because you like Rashier Fleming and of this group I’ll say Maxim Reno is my favorite player okay um he is like so senior played at Stanford four years uh he’s like very much a floor spacing big man right like that is his skill maxim Reno last year he averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds here I’ll pull up his stats really quick um he was 20.2 points 10.6 rebounds 1.7 assists 1.4 blocks not great he’s a legit sevenfooter uh he measured in at uh over 7 feet right at the combine he had a very good combine he kind of had a big game he’s like the guy who broke out i had actually forgotten that until recently um because I just went back and watched his footage i’m just like this is exactly what the NBA is about like he is a very good athlete finishes easily on top of the rim he is slight like he’s pretty thin he’s not crazy thin it’s like he’s not he’s not the guy who’s going to get pushed around everywhere he goes he’s 71 he’s 240 lbs um he only has a 71 wingspan so he’s not like crazy long but he’s 7 foot wingspan because he’s 7 feet tall but he’s like he really moves well yeah he really is a dynamic mover for the way compared to most sevenfooters you just don’t see that a whole lot uh and then the most important thing is he shot 35% from three on five and a half attempts like that’s a legit big man skill yeah that’s awesome we talked about you know last year or I think it was even the last podcast that Kyle Filipowski if he was going to play the four had to shoot 35% or above and center probably got to be 32 to 35% if you’re going to be a legit stretch center and I kind of have no doubt that he’s going to get there yeah cuz he also shot 77% from the floor so like there’s like good three-point shooting there his field goal percentage is only at 46% which is really low for a sevenfooter but he like wants to dunk like he tries to dunk it a lot he can catch lobs in the half court he can catch lobs as a pick and roll player and like he’s a knockdown spot of three-point shooter he’s not great like at a pick and pop that’s probably like his swing skill if he can develop that he might be a starter and like a high level starter but if not like if that’s your backup to Walker Kesler and he’s like a change of pace guy like I would if he was there at 21 like and you just like know what role he’s going to come in and play like I think there’s a there’s a ton of value there yeah absolutely and it’s like you talked about offensively super skilled post up i think that’s something like he has a very solid post up game he has good touch face up shoot from deep and something that I thought was interesting is like even for his size that like when I clicked on to the first game to watch of him I was like “Oh this is going to be like a clunky big who just spots up occasionally he’s not at all.” Like like he’ll even like if you come at him with a poor closeout he will go by you and dunk on you yeah 100% really easily um like good footwork as well um again similarly to what we talked about I don’t think he’s going to be a hub but he has good passing IQ he’s good enough it’s not like the ball touches him and it never comes out again yeah um and then 2.3 stocks like that’s solid like could be better but solid yeah i I just really like him crafty but yeah not prolific passers kind of things I wrote down i think he plays really hard like I think those things matter uh I I really was impressed um that’s a guy who again could go way higher than anyone thinks he could be a guy who ends up going like 12 or 13 like I like him more than Derek Queen okay a lot more than Derk yeah um I don’t think like like you said he’s not like strong but I I I just asked the question will his defensive size and shooting translate because I think those are like real questions to ask when you bring over big guys from college like Zach Edi for example i think he’s going to be able to move his feet a lot better than that so I actually think he can probably like go out and like hedge a little bit on the pick and roll and then like retreat like he’s not going to be a great drop big yes and I don’t think he’s going to be a great like island defender either but like I just think there’s like enough there if you’re playing him 18 minutes a game which like if you get a 21 if you got a get a guy at 21 who can play 18 minutes a game and like knock down threes at seven feet tall and give you a thing that you don’t have on your roster yeah there’s a lot of value there so I think I think he’s really undervalued on a lot of draft boards it’s kind of my hot take from this last week um I would I would take him to the lottery to be honest with you i went that high on So yeah I really like him next up let’s do Jace Richardson okay um I have a hot take for Jace okay i like him more for the Jazz this is gonna be crazy i know this is crazy hot out i like him more for the Jazz than I do Jeremiah Fierce yeah I think that’s totally fair i don’t think that’s that crazy um Okay like I again I don’t make a board but I kind of just like slot guys in yeah and I promise you if I go to it I have Jace above uh above Jeremiah Fer in fact I have him right in front of him yeah uh so Jace Richardson uh kind of like a top 50 recruit not like an elite elite recruit but a good recruit son of Jason Richardson former NBA player kind of an undersized shooting guard really is what he is he’s gonna have to play point guard in the NBA I think to make it um but he’s six feet tall which is little he’s got a 66 reach which helps or six wingspan which helps he It says he only weighs 180 pounds he’s like stockier than that like I have no doubt that he’s going to be able to put on weight and be able to play big enough in the NBA um and only an 8 foot2 standing reach so like that’s the fear on him is that he’s little yes like that’s his biggest knock otherwise like he does a lot well uh what did you see from him um first thing I just want to point out like um let me pull something yeah 6 foot and half an inch no shoes 66 wingspan like you said his dad was 66 and because of the wingspan like I right now the biggest question mark with him is his size if he can grow to 6’2 63 like I think he has like could be a starting point guard in the NBA and again it’s it’s it’s important to note he’s only 18 and a half so like it’s not like we don’t know that he won’t grow anymore this is not a 22y old this is an 18-y old 100% um shot 41.2% from three 45.7 on catch and shoot 50% unguarded catch and shoot threes that’s ridiculous um he’s also like for his size really good at finishing 68.8% at the rim yeah he is that’s a crazy number for his size um second best freshman box plus minus Cooper flag yeah um I I I like as I previously mentioned there was the three things that Fierce doesn’t have um Jace has a similar energy that J that we point out to Jeremiah Fierce on defense like it’s like he’s small but at least he has effort there and then like he has the shooting that Jeremiah doesn’t my he’s a little underwhelming just from his statistical profile right 12 points three rebounds two assists and you’re like he’s six feet tall like what yeah but you watch him and you’re like oh this dude totally knows who he is like that’s what I love about his game the most cuz I do like him he just knows exactly what he is and once like Michigan State kind of realiz exactly how to use him of just like he’s not create off the dribble like step back into a three guy but he actually can like be a little bit of a foul merchant like foul shot merchant like he knows how to get into the paint three and a half free throws a game we thought the free throw was pretty solid there um he just like is not forcing it if he gets it and realizes he doesn’t have an advantage he just kicks it right back out by the way he’s playing with uh with Fears’s brother who is the who is actually the point guard at Michigan State which is kind of the issue i think it’s Jeremiah Fears or or Jeremy Fears jeremy Fierce jeremy and Jeremiah Fierce what were you doing there parents uh and you know obviously they weren’t twins because Yes jeremiah Fears reclassified to jump up there um anyways it was confusing yeah but uh so I think that was actually kind of an issue like he should have gone to a team where like they didn’t have another point guard and maybe he could have done that a little bit more and would have looked better or maybe he would have looked worse and he picked that spot true to hide some of his deficiencies but yeah he just like really knows how to play and if you believe in like drafting the children of NBA players which by the way is like the best indicator of draft success because they’ve been around the game their whole life their dad has good DNA and they just kind of understand the culture it’s really a positive so like yeah if he was there on TW at 21 like I totally get it and it’s like I just think he like probably comes in and takes Keonte’s job yeah it’s truthfully and like maybe not year one ke’s gonna be going into year four year two year three yeah year three um and like knows skills but like if you got him and said like we want to get off of Keonte I would get like where he would step in and then actually might just end up being your point guard and you’re little like he’s little there’s no doubt about it but the effort is really there defensively the IQ was there i just think he’s like a guy who like maybe his size ends up meaning he’s like the ninth best player on your team yeah and he’s out of a playoff rotation but I think he’s like a good regular season player and there’s value in that um two more things I want to touch on with him i don’t like as he stands right now and even if he grows a couple inches I think like you said he has to be a point guard but I think he’s in the lane of like um Trey Johnson and Keonte George where he’s not a natural playmaker agreed um and I like even adding on to that I think that Keonte and Trey both are more talented passers if that makes sense like they can make better passes than I saw some exciting passes i actually saw a couple where I was like “Okay that was like a legit read.” Like he saw an advantage and created an opportunity that I thought was exciting yeah and but he doesn’t have the same gravity that those guys have where like they’re not creating he’s not going to create off the dribble I think the way some of them do well I mean Trey Johnson doesn’t really do it either but you just have to be so committed to him because of his three-point shot that like you’re right he’s going to be able to throw open passes off of double teams that Jayce is never going to he’s never going to create yeah and um one more thing is he doesn’t like you can’t bet on a guy to get taller um but you can bet on him to get bigger and I think that the size specifically with him is like you have Fred Van Vleets and Devon Mitchells who are smaller but also stockier so it’s like their defensive liability isn’t as obvious and he’s just also super skinny and small um yeah like the hope is that like he’s Jaylen Brunson yeah you know what I mean like someone is gonna say that and someone’s gonna draft him for that reason and be like it might be there yeah um I I think that’s way too high of an upside because Jaylen Brunson’s you know certainly exceeded all expectations but son of an NBA player little undized but like a true winner great box plus minus stuff like you mentioned there’s a lot to like about Jayce Richardson again if he was there at 21 like the issues about his height are are legitimately questionable yeah he’s just a really good player he’s just a really good basketball player and I think he’ll stick around all right last one is this our last guy yeah I think so thank goodness uh Ryan Cogbriner um listed as 7-1 in the combine 76 wingspan averaged 19.2 points 8.7 rebounds 65% from the floor 34.4% from three okay the cell is that he’s massive yes truly massive like you mentioned uh 76 wingspan 94 standing reach over 7 feet tall like a legitimately huge human being 7 foot2 NBA size some three-point shooting chops but like not enough he won three time defensive player of the year in was it the Atlantic 10 or whatever it was he played in i don’t see it at all this was I think he was my least favorite of the I don’t see it at all it’s like weird to see some place where it’s like he’s going to go 18 and like maybe maybe but like man for his size he is pudding soft yeah he just gets maneuvered all over the floor because you can get underneath him so easily and just push him out of the way and thus like his 8.7 rebounds per game like I think he led the conference it’s it was terrible yeah he’s a terrible rebounder yeah um he he finishes everything like his first game of the season like if you go to his box score shot 20 of 22 from the floor like and had 49 points it’s like whoa this guy’s awesome and then you watch him it’s like oh that’s truly never going to happen in the NBA like I watched him against Auburn and Jai Broom yeah and they just destroyed him yeah like he could he can’t get shots off cleanly because he’s he moves really slowly and he was seven of 13 in that game and finished with like 18 and seven that’s I guess that’s the draw of him is that like because he’s so huge there’s just some raw produ production there but it’s like man he moves poorly he doesn’t react quickly at all defensively so like NBA bigs NBA guards are just going to go right around him his recovery speed is not very good i don’t believe in the three-point shot the way I do like a Maxim Reno like totally has the athleticism there so like man I I’m shocked that people have cockrunner where they do yeah like he should be like he should go legitimately 50 spots behind some of these other guys we talked about in the draft like he should go 50 spots behind Cas Paris Yakush like they shouldn’t be within six spots of each other no um like let’s not let’s not totally dog him no that’s right no he’s sure he’s a great kid no yeah he has good hands he has decent body control for a big um good touch yeah but I I I do think it’s like classic bigger than everyone else he plays against that’s all it is yeah but he’s not stronger than anyone else he plays against and again he’s 23 he’s going to turn 24 during his rookie season yes and it’s like so he’s not getting stronger like not a lot stronger not the way you look at like a rashier or not a rashier Fleming even though he’s only 20 in this group that we were talking about uh Thomas Sorber who’s like just going to be such a a monster yeah physically like cockpit is going to be a little bit overwhelming but like so was taco fall and like that’s what I put on my thing as I was watching him like I just put taco fall question mark question mark question mark like yeah you’re just bigger than everybody and like there’s some basketball stuff there but like oh it was rough he’s going to be the uh the same age as Tyrese Hallebertton yeah exactly right right like so yeah I’m not trying to like I I would definitely have like a second round grade on him if if at all like like honestly like consider him like 53 like maybe I’m just way off maybe he just ends up having a much better but like I just don’t see it at all no uh there’s not even the like late career Brook Lopez because like No like I think that’s the hope is that that’s what you’re getting like I just don’t think he’s that prolific of a three-point shooter and I just don’t know what the skill is i don’t even trust him to get as big as Brook like like I’ve seen Brook Lopez in person he’s like a mountain a man like a huge person yeah like I just don’t trust and it’s like you talk about like seeing them in person seeing their shoulders like to see how big they can get i just don’t see him ever getting there yeah like he’s prolific i get it like there are huge outings but like okay you beat up on Providence and you beat up on you know what I mean like some of these these other schools it’s just like and then against some of the better opponents like the rebounding numbers weren’t there and the shooting wasn’t there so uh I just don’t I just don’t totally see it to be honest with you um exciting for him but yeah I don’t I don’t see a whole lot of it hey shout out 49 points against UT Rio Grand Valley though that’s awesome that’s the thing yeah it’s like UT Rio Grand Valley where the tallest guy is you yeah what are you like 6’4 6’5 yeah yeah it’s like correct yeah go guard cocker you’re going to get roasted uh but uh I didn’t see it so yeah the worst of this group all right quickly let’s go through them really quickly just again and just get say thumbs up or thumbs down and that’s just going to be a very basic so we’ll go with Caspar Yakashon thumbs up uh Will Riley and I I’ll say thumbs up too okay i’ll give a thumbs on Yakoson i’m going to go thumbs down on Bill O’Reilly rasher Fleming thumbs up you kind of sold me i’ll go thumbs up i think it’s a little more role specific uh Thomas Sorber thumbs up big thumbs up for me uh Nick Clifford that’s a true thumb sideways that’s a true thumb sideways leaning up for me uh more so than like Will Riley who’s clearly down yeah jace Richardson leaning down oh really i like I like I like him but yeah six feet tall is worrisome yeah there’s a lot of good guards in that stretch that we haven’t talked about yet uh Maxim Reno is a huge thumbs up for me ryan Cockrener 35 thumbs down yeah all right let’s take a break when we come back we’ll get your mail bag appreciate everyone sticking with us i know that went longer than we expected uh but more Jazz Notes coming up next welcome back to the Jazz Notes podcast ben Anderson Chandler Hold all right we went almost an hour segment so my apologies there uh so let’s do a slightly quicker mailbag but that’s a lie because I said we’re going to do it quicker first i’m going to um all right uh we’ll start uh as always you can find us on Twitter at Ben Hoops at Seahol Sports uh same place at Blue Sky though I didn’t get any Blue Sky replies today so we’ll just go to my DMs um from Dan uh USU the right blue says “Do the Jazz need to have one star and a ton of depth or two stars with less depth seems like the salary cap is tough to stack a big three unless they’re all past their prime.” Yeah I think the big three is largely dead oh yeah 100% which actually is pretty interesting about what Memphis just did right they said “We’re going to consolidate around our big two.” Now maybe there’s following moves but I think that’s what they said we’re going to go with a big two and we’ve got all these draft picks now and then build out their depth and they actually have pretty reasonable depth i like I like Memphis in that sense they just may have realized that three three players is going to be too expensive yeah so I think it’s two and then I just wouldn’t sell out on your depth i think it’s two plus depth not one plus depth one plus depth is not good enough yeah you got to have two guys and then like eight or nine guys that can get you to 11 throughout the regular season and then hopefully you’re healthy enough uh to survive the the postseason and the the thing that I like about the NBA is like if you look through history I feel like there’s always been sort of like a thing to do right like when regarding building your team like there was the big three era and then now we’re at a point where it’s like I don’t think there is a thing to do like you look at the Thunder you have Shay MVP like he’s a true superstar and then it’s like you could argue that JDub and Chad are stars but I would even say like a star title might be even a little bit too much for them i don’t Yeah Jaylen Williams made the All-Star team but like he’s not like a star every night he’s not great every night he’s good he’s really good but he’s not great every night the way you know some of these other top 15 players in the league are yeah and then you have the Pacers mind you the NBA finals are tied 2-2 right now you have the Pacers who have like I would say Pascal and Tyrese are both stars um but then other than that it’s just like a bunch of really good role players that all come together really well and even then like Tyrese is not a top six player in the NBA and like is not great every night either you know exactly no I’m with you it’s it’s we’re in an interesting evolution right now as teams are trying to figure out this new CBA yeah all right let’s go to our mailbag what’s next yes um into the extra pies uh first up from Dre Mishaw i believe it was you who brought up the idea not reporter or rumor but idea that a Lowry to Memphis trade makes sense especially with their connections can you see that happening and he’s talking about the coaching connection uh the Finnish head coach that they just hired uh who I’m sure is just familiar with Lowry because it’s not a very big country and basketball is not the primary sport so um I could again but it goes back to this idea that like maybe they’re just consolidating around their two guys and that’s Jiren Jackson Jr and John Morant and then they think they can build out the depth now here’s the thing they have a really bad ownership they have really cheap ownership in Memphis and that’s probably the other reason why they’re doing this and yeah they’re going to have to pay KCP but you can figure that out and and you know you’re going to have to pay Bane a lot more over the next several years so I think some of this was a cost cutting move yes I did think that was a chance that that could still be a part of this conversation and now they’ve got four picks and like the ammo to make it happen and maybe that alone is enough they’d still have to trade some salaries i’d have to go and find their salaries and it’s like are they trading John Morant for Lowry that doesn’t really make a lot of sense because that that that would have been nice then if you had Desmond Bane in your back court like yeah that’s the problem i kind of think this is just a cost cutting move i was about to say like I don’t see them trading Desmond Bane just to make a trade for Lowry like that doesn’t really make a lot of sense with me but maybe it’s two or three moves down the line true so I wouldn’t rule it out entirely but I don’t know if this is like the first domino for that yeah I don’t know if that’s where it leads me um next up Tyler G clearly the Jazz need to find a true number one option but the defense also needs to make huge strides how do you see the front office addressing the defensive issues of the Hardy era uh can they address it through the draft and does the whole roster need to be turned over i think it’s interesting because with the number five pick you’re not taking like Colinary Voyals like you’re not probably not no um so it’s like you’re you’re going to upside or just best available at five maybe at 21 you look defensively what do you think um and we got another question about this from Jimbo Slice that we talk about why don’t I just read this Jimbo question because I think it it fits in nicely he says “Old man take watching the defensive effort in the finals has made me realize the Jazz are way further from a deep playoff run than I originally thought shouldn’t defense be more of a factor when drafting i know shooting is more important but if you can’t stop anybody Yeah like I said this last year and I fully stand by it if he doesn’t play defense he’s not best player available.” Yeah so like that’s where like I’ve been really concerned about Trey Johnson like he doesn’t try mhm like he did early in the year and then it totally stopped and it’s like controller unplug stuff like and there’s some of that with Ace Bailey too now when Ace Bailey tries like he’s 6′ 7 and a half 68 in shoes his bend is pretty good actually like one-on-one I don’t think he was that bad he’s a good helpside shot blocker so like there’s at least some potential there defensively that like Trey Johnson never really showed that much of uh and I love the effort from Con Canipple like again we talked about his measurements early in the show like I think the effort is really there his motor runs really high yes which is great but like it’s why like I I would like to go back almost and I I need to I’m going to rewatch some of these guys in the top five again as we get closer to the draft and I had said like I don’t know if VJ’s a great fit for the Jazz and now I’m just thinking like maybe you just need two-way guys and VJ’s one of the better two-way guys not named Cooper Flag in this draft yes um and like he did accidentally average 15 points and whatever it was five rebounds and three assists like maybe just the fact that he does play both sides of the floor and he’s not like a great man defender right now um but like my comp for him again comps are dangerous it’s like I know everyone wants to talk about like Dwayne Wade it might just be Christian Brown yeah like Christian Brown is the fourth best player fifth best player on a team that won a championship two years ago in Denver it’s like I know that’s not that exciting at number five overall and you hope his upside’s way higher than that but it’s like if you knock down threes you got a little creation off the dribble and you play defense and like you’ll take the best opponents uh the team’s the best opposing wing or guard there’s value there yeah um and maybe that’s where BJ Edgecom needs to pop up a little bit higher in these conversations about like over Trey Johnson and over Coniple and right there with like you know the Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey conversation and it’s why he has been like projected as a top four player so yeah maybe you just got to go defensive both which Yeah then maybe a Rasher Fleming fits in or or whoever you like defensively in that group at 21 but there there’s good defensive players later in the draft that is what happens we we really value offensive players early in the draft and defensive players a little bit later uh next question from G two questions from him does Austin A go big game hunting with a slew of NBA teams currently offloading salary or do they stay the course and then second what’s the biggest offseason move you think the Jazz need to make to become a serious playoff contender again and how realistic is it uh honestly the biggest offseason move to become a serious playoff contender again is probably nothing yeah like be bad again next year and try and get one of these three players at the top of the draft again I know that’s boring but like you’re not getting Kevin Durant and actually you’re more likely to trade one of the better players in this class than acquire them and that’s Lowry Mark true i feel like serious playoff contender can be taken as contending in the playoffs and then contending to make the playoffs if you mean contending to make the playoffs like maybe you trade Colin and John’s for more depth slash like better defensive players and then you could have a shot at the playoffs but even then then you’re relying on your young players to take a big step up um but I don’t know i think I agree with you to go back to his first question i think they’re more likely to stay the course than go big game hunting like I think the Jazz would look a lot better this was a big conversation on Twitter the last couple of days like how close are the Jazz actually which is again like I don’t think that’s the goal is to be necessarily close i think there’s been excitement because of Brian what Brian Winhorse said but like I do think the Jazz might be like a really good point guard away from this thing making a lot more sense and the fact that two years ago they were playing Keonte George at point guard for most of the season yeah a long part of the season and then last year it was Isaiah Collier just like doesn’t know how to do everything yet and like can’t shoot it’s like if you were to just go out and get Taius Jones or whatever like a guy who’s played it for a long time i promise you it would all look better yeah like that’s the problem I think with what we saw night in and night out is like it just looked so sketchy but it’s like yeah it was sketchy cuz the guy at the most important position was brand new to this like Kante had literally never played point guard no he was a shooting guard who was trying to play that role and learn it and has gotten better at it and I don’t know if he’s even on the roster next year and Isaiah Collier like was the 29th pick and was starting at point guard for you for lots of the season like yeah it’s going to look terrible so like why did they look way better when Mike Connley and Kelly Olen were on the roster it’s like well yeah those guys are natural ball distributors who know how to play the game i’m like guess what you could have Mike Connley this offseason it’s like that’s the danger you know what I mean like what is actually real and what actually matters to you but I I do think that’s that’s where the Jazz if you wanted to be a contender to make the playoffs like go make a serious upgrade at point guard yeah that’s what I would say um Whit owns Riley asks “It seems like you guys liked Khan over Trey Johnson have you changed your tone on that at all from what I see Trey has better upside at being an all-star.” Uh maybe yeah yeah i mean like yeah it might be a higher swing i think he’s also got like legitimate can’t play him defensive downside and I don’t see that as much with Khan but um especially now that we find out he’s best athlete in especially now that like his athletic measurements were very fine very solid but it’s like yeah I mean no Trey Trey’s good trey’s like a good player like I think he if you get Trey at five you should be happy if you’re a Jazz fan you know I think that’s like a totally acceptable pick now I understand why they would do it um no I lean a little bit more towards Khan just because like the question for me with Trey is just like his best skill is like getting to his three off the dribble yes right like and he does it at an elite level but the best of anyone in this draft by far absolutely it’s like how many times you you ask him to do that in a game so like are you gonna ask him to do it 10 times in a game no yeah like three or four that’s a good thing that’s like that’s big it’s like but does he do absolutely everything else worse than Coniple yes yeah he’s a worse defensive player he’s a worse rebounder he’s a worse passer he’s a worst decision maker he’s a worse like teammate and maybe his teammates at Texas were terrible like that’s if he plays with elite teammates like Khan had a Duke maybe it looks totally different but like from what we’ve seen Yes yeah so it’s like so you do everything else worse and by the way Khan Kipple is a 40% three-point shooter it’s not like Coniple is a 20% three-point shooter does everything else better no Khan just takes different threes he has a different shooting profile he doesn’t create them off the dribble but like neither does Desmond Bane yeah you know what I mean so it’s like So no I probably haven’t flipped necessarily but those two are like right next to each other you know both like top six or seven guys it’s also like Apple oranges in a way like you’re talking about yeah in some ways they’re totally different in some ways they’re both like really good players that are going to go in the top seven so um but no I I would say I probably haven’t but if you wanted to say like that Trey Johnson had all NBA upside because there’s a chance he averages 27 points a game in the NBA i buy that yeah absolutely i also told you like I think he might be Malik Monk which go back and dial up you Malik Monk’s Kentucky highlights mhm like tell me what’s different about Trey Johnson other than the fact that he actually gets to the paint which Trey Johnson does not so anyways um next question uh from Brandon Britain your reaction to the Memphis trade if you haven’t already in the show are they pulling the plug on that team if they are does more good players in the market change what you think the Jazz want to do um just to recap Orlando um or the Memphis Grizzly traded Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic for Contavius Cwell Pope Cole Anthony four unprotected first round picks and one first round pick swap um for context and I think this is something Wendy said um on Sports Center which I think is a really good point is as much the four first round picks for Bane seems like a lot but you’re also basically like having to pay to get rid of cont you are paying to unload him yeah which actually I think the interesting part for the here here for the Jazz is I’ I’ve kind of always thought that Orlando would have been a great fit for Colin Ston yes um and the Jazz could have taken back KCP’s deal so not only would Orlando get a better player than KCP and Colin Ston right now but also the Jazz might be able to get draft capital back not just for Colin but also for taking on KCP so like was there a weird situation where you could get two first for him and maybe the Jazz just don’t need more draft capital at the moment but that’s where I actually thought it was the most telling for the Jazz and going back to Dre’s question about like does this mean that they’re going to trade for Lowry i think that’s the more telling is because I think Colin would have made a lot of sense in Orlando what I think you also have to recognize is like four unprotected sounds like a lot well one of them’s unprotected because it’s the 16th pick this year like it’s not unprotected it’s top 15 protected and it you know it only conveys if it’s 16 exactly because that’s where it is like that’s the pick it’s not unprotected it’s the 16th pick and then next year’s is a swap with Phoenix which is interesting but even Phoenix’s can only be the second best with Phoenix and Washington now Washington’s going to stink yes so if Phoenix stinks too it could be the fifth pick because Washington is the first overall pick that’s the like the big sell here because I think Orlando’s going to be good and you’re talking about picks in the 20s but like if Phoenix trades Kevin Durant for like win now players which I think is their goal and gets back to like 38 wins okay then you’re getting like the 15th pick again yeah or maybe the 12th pick or the 10th pick which is what Houston got which is good but then you’re talking about KCP in the 10th pick for you know Desmond Bane who is at times a borderline all-star so it’s like who’s 26 and under team control uh and is like a really great two-way player yes so um to address the question like was it fully like how does this affect the Jazz um it was if the other Memphis players are available on the market does it change what you think the Jazz want to do basically like are they eyeing Morant and Triple J i wouldn’t rule out like John Morant for the Jazz based on like his background because like we’ve talked about like Danny A not afraid of players like that now look Austin Angel is the one calling the shots maybe Austin is maybe Austin doesn’t want to deal with players like that who have had off the court issues but like we talked about how Danny’s like liked Kyrie and was rumored to be interested in Kyrie when he got available when he was made available by Brooklyn yeah and he ended up going to Dallas so maybe I also have told you I just like worried that like we may have seen the best of Jaw already yeah um you know he’s super athletic but he’s already losing some of that because of the injuries and like his focus is clearly not on basketball and you know but the Jazz have like entertained team when he’s come to town and like maybe that has kind of been out there recognizing that there’s a possibility so potentially yeah I I don’t think Jiren Jackson Jr’s is going to become available yeah no to be honest with you I think he’s like he’s their best player and I bet they build around him yeah um unrelated to this question and I know that we don’t have a lot of time but um I like this trade for the Magic a lot like the East is wide open next year and it’s like I trust Powell to make like a top 15 player jump like I think they could be really good next year they’re gonna get expensive quickly true but I do like a lot of their players they got off their worst contract which bad contracts are really horrible to deal with right now i I like this for both teams in all honesty i do think Memphis was kind of going nowhere um and still has some good players now they’ve got some draft capital to make another swing or fill out their roster so I think that’s valuable especially if Jaw gets back to Allstar Jaw um I like Orlando finally making a trade they never make trades so they finally bought in um and they got like the perfect guy like Desmond Bane like he’s a good defensive player he’s an elite shooter he doesn’t need the ball in his hands a whole lot but late in the game you can put the ball in his hands and like trust him to do okay things which they’ve really lacked uh he fits really well next to Jaylen Suggs like yeah this is a this is a great trade for Orlando i think that’s a really good move next up from Todd Crow instead of playing 2A guys I don’t think we would mind playing cultivating youth be a bit more playoff style one-on-one run iso plays for the young guys let Walker and Collier be more offensive-minded sexton develop at the one and try to win every game within that paradigm i just you know if if Sexton’s back next year I think that’s the question no I think that is what you’re going to see i think you’re going to see more like trying to look like a basketball team uh but I just don’t know if the talent’s going to be there or maybe it is maybe they go out and tune up or whatever uh turn it up as uh Wendy said but um I kind of think you know you see more like realistic effort and trying to win with players less capable of winning yeah that’s that would just be my guess uh next up from Bleep Bloop uh are the Jazz actually building do they really want to be the Kings/Bulls in a deep Western Conference this is something that I don’t know if I just look at sports a different way like when you’re rooting for a team um but like and this is a conversation like with the Jazz talking about like not tanking in like recent days you talked about how far away are they like to me the worst thing is being the Kings Bulls like just constantly being the six to 10th seed yeah there’s a weird thing going on in the NBA that teams need to be careful of is don’t become don’t think you’re the Indiana Pacers yes because you were middle of the pack early on and the Pacers were like nine and 14 or whatever it was and then like caught lightning in a bottle and now been to backtoback Eastern Conference finals in a finals run you’re going to have some stupid teams that are going to be like we’re close no you’re not no you’re not you’re not close at all um and I think like Chicago Sacramento could find themselves in that trap so you’ve got to be really careful there you just have to really like it’s important to recognize that like again Tyres Hallebertton’s like he’s Steve Nash right now like that’s like where he was when Steve Nash was winning two MVPs now maybe that does mean he’s a top 10 player and goes against what we said earlier in the year but they also have Rick Carile who’s a legit like genius coach so yeah if you have horrendous ownership like the Bulls do or the the Kings do and like you fake think you’re close and you don’t realize and you just like keep betting on pounding the middle until like you hope to break out and become an elite team i think that’s really dangerous yes um it’s like you know the whatever this I don’t know what it’s called but like you actually freeze water faster if you put it in hot and it will turn into an ice cube because it like the speed at which it starts to cool down continues and like keeps that momentum and it turns into ice quicker like I think that’s kind of how you rebuild teams generally like be bad and then quickly get good as opposed to like we’re going to slowly take a step and slowly kind of like what the Thunder did like they had like one year and then it was like oh they’re in the playoffs oh they’re a top seed oh now they’re in the finals yeah i kind of think that’s maybe the easier way which is again why I say like when I say the Jazz are probably closer to being good it’s because I don’t think it needs eight years to get that window yeah um now I do think I wonder if you look back at teams like Houston or teams like Detroit who did tank for like five years and then quickly seems like they got out of it though they put in the time what h what would happen if you shaved off those first three years like like what if you never did the Jaylen Green year or the Jabari Smith year like who cares like those guys are terrible well they’re not terrible like they might be Jazz players next year be careful here like but if you had shaved off those tanking years and just like did your Amend Thompson year which again that’s the luck of that’s the hard part of the draft like you don’t always hit but if you do hit the one time and then you go out and you get your Fred Van Vleet and your Dylan Brooks like okay now you’re good again like what if it was really what if the window we’re looking at is too wide and you just focus in on the Amend Thompson into Dylan Brooks and and Fred Van Vleet yeah uh and that’s that’s your run you know that’s how you got better maybe that’s how you do it i mean so the Jazz get a top five pick and they find their Amend Thompson whoever it is and they recognize oh this is a real deal and then next year they’ve got all this cap space and they just spend it on a couple of good players and veterans that know how to win and all of a sudden they’re good like that’s possible uh TJ Jones uh looking at our swap rights with Cleveland and Minnesota can we trade those doesn’t appear they hold any value to the Jazz as is uh you can trade them yeah I would disagree they don’t have value like you’re getting the 21st pick right now from the Timberwolves you got the 15th pick two years ago in Keonte George again like Kante hasn’t turned into a star but like 15th pick is a reasonable value pick and the 21st pick is a reasonable value pick yeah and we’ve talked about like Danny A like flipping these young players to put the puzzle together and like you talked about like other than Larry Martin and Counter Dors might be one of Jazz’s most valuable player assets so yeah um and yes you can trade them yeah uh you can trade like we were just talking about with the Suns pick like that the Magic or sent to Memphis it’s like it’s the second best of these picks and by the way the Jazz already traded the rights of some of these to Phoenix for that unprotected 20,31 or 32 pick or whatever it is um so you could trade the second most valuable of those picks so the swap rights and the Jazz just get to hold on to the top swap rights but you’re giving up what could be a you know ninth overall pick if it falls apart in Minnesota or in Cleveland which like again as quickly as we’re talking about teams being able to rebuild it look at how quickly teams fall apart that’s what OKC has hammered over and over and it’s really paid off for them houston hammered it with Phoenix and got the 10th pick this year and they hammered it with Brooklyn they got the third pick last year so that’s why I think maybe you don’t want to trade too many of those swaps because there can be value there yeah um all right next from um Stockton Ashby um say the Grizz decide to move on from Jiren Jackson Jr does he do anything for you what if the Jazz go get him and Reeves not sure it’s in the cards thoughts um and then I’m gonna I’m gonna combine this actually what does a realistic turn it up trade look like for the Jazz this is from uh Stephen Q ritter uh would trading for a her player Dame for example count as turning it up while leaving this year uh what would be interesting I should look at the 2026 draft and just see if Memphis owns their own pick i suspect they do because they traded it this year so they probably have to own their own pick next year like if Memphis decided they wanted to go in the tank next year and said like this West is too crowded a lot of good players next year in the draft we think we can have a top five pick we control our own picks which again I need to go and guarantee that that’s the case like I could see them selling off and initiating a rebuild and just saying like the Jaws stuff has made this too toxic we’ve got some good young players and Zack Edi and Jaylen Wells but our stars are not the type of stars we think we can win with so we’re going to make him available like yeah you’d kick the tire on on Jiren Jackson Jr he’s a great player he was awesome this year i wish he didn’t get in foul trouble yes um I wish he would stay on the floor because if he stayed on the floor he’s a really good player and he doesn’t and that’s his biggest issue but maybe a change of scenery would help him yeah uh and maybe a team more built around him so like I just like if I were a general manager and he became available I would absolutely see if he’s he’s out there now he’s going to get us does he get the supermax i can’t remember if he won DPOI a couple years ago and that made him qualify for it but he’s got like a huge I mean he’s got his huge max contract coming in regardless um yeah he’s like a he’s a really good player so he’s the type of player I would look at as like I think he’s good enough to be one of your two best players on like a really high level team yes I think he’s that quality player um and better than anyone on the Jazz right now yeah I think he’s a better player than the Jazz have yeah um and then what does a realistic turn it up trade look like for the Jazz does C does trading for Dame count um it doesn’t get you better next year no and I would imagine that’s like No that’s a turn it down trade yeah absolutely that’s a tune it down trade that’s where you trade Colin Ston and John Collins and KJ Martin for Dame and sit next year out to get another top three pick and you just play your young guys yeah um without Lowry you know i mean Lowry or maybe Lowry plays two but like you don’t have to do the like well John’s only going to play 30 games and Colin’s only gonna play 60 games yeah um maybe a turn it up trade would be like Colin Ston John Collins a boatload of picks for Jaw something along Yeah yeah something along those lines yeah yeah something like that um all right next up positive Jazz guy is uh Lowry’s current trade value worth more or less than what Bane just went for and again I want to like I would say like maybe this is too much but I would say offloading KCP is like a first round pick or like a first round pick and a half yeah in today’s NBA where teams are dealing with really tough financials yeah so I would say it’s safe to say that Bane’s actual trade value was like Cole Anthony and two three first round picks and three first yeah um probably somewhat comparable um so yeah if you were to take back $40 million in bad salary from a team and all their draft capital like I guess you could probably get something closer to Bane yeah I’d say Bane’s probably higher though to be honest with you i’d say Bane’s draft or or trade value is probably a little bit higher yeah um he’s younger he’s still under team control just funny because Bane played in college for 40 years i swear he was at TCU forever he played four years but he was young for his class which again is why that is valuable sometimes I think that stuff gets overrated but like Cochr Brener being 23 and a half versus Bane who I think was like 21 and a half coming out of even though he played four years that’s really valuable because yeah he’s been in the league for five years he’s still only 26 so like he’s only now getting into his prime ideally with Bane he’s already a good player so that’s where the value with some of that does get weighed in actually um I just think Bane’s got like a little more on ball juice yes um he’s also an elite shooter might even be a better shooter than Lowry though lowry being seven feet tall gives him the edge there yeah it’s like a much better defensive player so yeah I think Bane’s probably more valuable player than Lowry to be honest with you um but I bet it’s like in the in the in the ballpark in the ballpark and why the Jazz were smart not to just like give Lowry away at some point yeah and you know what they didn’t think they were getting that quality of player when they traded Donovan Mitchell and getting Lowry back so it’s like that’s a small win that you shouldn’t overlook yeah uh Stephen Kritter again says talks about the Bane trade um asks uh the price point for Larry Markin but also says “Do you think Walker would garner a similar package as Bane?” No Walker wouldn’t get as big a package yeah I think I agree and again like this Bane trade just might not look that good a couple years from now right like if Phoenix retools and is fine and it’s the 18th pick and then Orlando’s an elite team in the East and you get two 25 picks overall so you like you get four picks that are in the second half of the draft it’s like with no quality player coming back like that’s not super valuable yeah that’s not a great trade actually uh in fact Memphis like I may have wanted like Anthony Black or like one of their good young players you know and that’s why again that’s why they added draft picks right they didn’t have to give up uh last year’s first round pick the kid that played with uh Cody at Colorado uh and they didn’t have to trade Anthony Blackley they didn’t have to give up any of that for Desmond Bane so they added extra draft capital which by the way is what Minnesota did when they didn’t want to give up on Jaden McDaniels so they gave the Jazz extra first yes it’s like that’s kind of the that’s kind of the gamble you get there yeah that’s the hard part uh gonna sort of combine two here clayson Surl and Denny Bartchner uh Denny says “I think Windhorse is making more of Austin Ang’s words for the sake of a story what do you think?” And then Clayson says “Keep hearing the Jazz are going to be buyers not sellers.” Um what kind of buyer trade which we kind of touched on already i just think there’s a lot of buyers right now in the NBA so it’s like a buyer market and I think the fact that like the Jazz do have capital to spend but a lot of teams have capital there’s I I don’t know if the Jazz are like the top of the buyer list and that gets hard because things can dry up really quickly yeah um so like I think Brooklyn I would consider a they could be a buyer or a seller because they could still like get rid of Cam Johnson yeah but like they also have four first round picks this year and all the only team that has cap space so they could like legitimately be buyers they can also trade for players and just take them into cap space uh so they could take like if Memphis just wanted to get off of KCP like Brooklyn could take a first and KCP straight up and like there’s value there it’s not buying necessarily but like there’s value there you know we’ve got to wait to see what happens with Kevin Durant like that’s the piece i don’t think we’re gonna see Giannis get moved i was about to say I just kind of don’t think that’s gonna happen this summer um I think with the East being wide open and the fact that Giannis hasn’t like st that claim and that we’re nine days away from the draft and like that’s probably when it would happen uh that we haven’t heard much maybe I’m wrong but I just kind of don’t think that we’re trending in that direction so I think you’re waiting for KD to get traded which is probably going to happen in the next week um and he wants to go to Houston Miami what was his other team um three teams San Antonio um I wouldn’t rule out like the Clippers potentially getting into that conversation but we will see there and then we’ll see you know who’s left on the board and who’s actually buying and who becomes available it’s just hard questions it’s it’s it’s easy to speculate at this point yeah with uh the Giannis trade talk sort of plateauing it makes me think that Dame trade is more likely yeah I agree if if you’re keeping Giannis in Milwaukee next year you want to build a better roster around him you’ve got to find a way to improve and again that’s where okay like that’s where Brooklyn could come in that’s where the Jazz could come in like Brooklyn could trade Cam Johnson and another player for Milwaukeee’s future first if if Brooklyn just wants to tank next year and be terrible and have another top five pick which maybe they do or maybe they say “Yeah we want to take on good players.” Yeah but also yes where the Jazz for Colin Ston and John Collins and KJ Martin for the 32nd overall pick and maybe even a young player or something you could get back all right that’s all the questions for today that’s it I think so only a two and a half hour podcast whatever we did today appreciate everybody listening as always find us on Twitter at Seahol Sports and Ben’s Hoops same thing at Blue Sky remember next week we’re going to do our normal Jazz Notes podcast we’ll probably I think we should look into the international guys because they’re going to be firmly in the conversation 21 for the Jazz so we’ll look at some of the uh international players and there’s five or six of them and then maybe one or two more you mentioned like Colin Murray Boils maybe we should talk about him yeah uh Walter Clayton wink wink we should talk about him uh for the jazz that’s not doesn’t mean anything by the way just like kind of a gut feeling I have um we’ll talk about him and some of the other guys kind of in that room in that group and then after that we’ll record a second podcast that’s just like a 30 team mockdraft that’ll probably take six hours and Yeah exactly and I’m pretty sure we’re like there will be trades on draft night but we’re doing chalk for our mockdraft right yeah i don’t want it to get that will make it three hours that throws it off too much um but we will go through that we’ll try and do it relatively quickly so that’s what’s coming up next week appreciate everyone uh tuning in or finding us on YouTube we’ll be back with you again next week [Music] [Music]

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