State of the Atlanta Hawks and Episode 2000 with Kevin Chouinard of Hawks.com

State of the Atlanta Hawks and Episode 2000 with Kevin Chouinard of Hawks.com

on today’s show it is episode 2000 of the Lots on Hawks podcast we’re joined by a guest that’s familiar to the audience and to me we’ll talk about the state of the Hawks and more and it’s all coming up right now you are Locked on Hawks your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast part of the Locked On podcast network your team every day hello friends welcome to episode 200 of the Lock on Hawks podcast i am your host Brad Rolling coming to you on a Wednesday evening here in mid June and today’s podcast is brought to you by the folks at the Game Time app download the Game Time app create an account and use code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase terms apply i also want to encourage you at the top of the show as I always do to make Locked On Hawks your first listen each and every day check us out and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you find your podcast that includes Apple and Spotify on the audio side we’re also on YouTube and be sure to tell your friends and colleagues and family anybody else in your life about this podcast and yeah it’s episode 2000 of the show i launched this podcast in July of 2016 so we’re almost nine years and a big round number shiny episode today first of all thank you to everyone who has listened and supported the podcast along the way not going anywhere plenty more to come maybe 2,000 more episodes obviously we are busy on the podcast right now in particular with the NBA draft and the offseason looming for the Hawks and that is why I am bringing on a special guest on today’s podcast his name is Kevin Shannard of hawks.com and atl29 kevin is the person in my life that I spend the most time actually talking to about the Hawks mostly in person but Kevin is gracious enough to join me on on the podcast today and I appreciate him doing so talk about the state of the Hawks and much more one more time I want to thank everybody for listening to the podcast today and always please subscribe to this podcast and we’ll dive in right now with myself and Kevin Shannard i am joined now by a very special guest a person I talk to all the time but not on this podcast i should probably ask you to come on the show more but hey I don’t want you i don’t want you to you have your own podcast i want you to come on but I don’t want you to spend so much time talking to me in this form kevin Shernard hello sir thank you for having me it’s good to finally be on your podcast for the first time that’s not true you’ve been on the show multiple times i just don’t ask you very often uh if you if this is you asking me to come on more I will ask you more if you want me to um but I said before I brought you in I sat I sit next to you at pretty much every Hawks game i I think we’ve probably spent an inordinate amount of time together talking about the Hawks in some form there are in fact I got an email that was I think I think serious recently that was asking me if you and I actually don’t like each other and the I guess we’ll spoil that now kevin and I uh Well you may not like me i like you but I like you we get along we’re friends um anyway we’ll talk about the state of the Hawks today like I I’m I’m not going to make you do a ton of draft we can end with the draft if you want to i’m doing a lot of draft right now but I figure it’d be a good time to kind of go back a little bit and talk about like where the Hawks are while I have a Hawks expert on the show with me um so how you feeling about the Hawks right now the drafts in a week it’s a big offseason i think we know that there’s lots of decisions to be made we got we actually got a a real live on there quote today from Monty’s from Monty’s LA in a in a press release the first time ever uh so how how we feeling i mean we should we should feel good like they’ve got it feels like they’ve done the big things and they have to correctly follow up by doing the little things but that’s always an easier problem to solve than to get the big things right so should feel very good about them i I would think yeah i I think so too i think they’re on the upswing obviously there’s every comparison you can make to the Pacers who are playing in the finals right now and like where are the Hawks stack up in the East there’s all these questions and we won’t have time to answer all of them on this particular conversation but you know they have a core this is me talking now words in your mouth they have a core that I I like i think their core is well constructed um they’re going to probably need to add to it at some point that to to actually win a championship i think we probably we could probably agree on that but they have five guys I think that are their core guys and they all kind of make sense together and they have these two picks in the draft that can kind of add to the team um I’ll ask this question first what What do you think they need to do this summer like what would your operating mindset be would you be kind of in just like accumulation mode add to the core see what you’re going to do are are you in big swing mode like I think a lot of Hawks fans want a bigger splash which is natural but what do you think they need to kind of how do they approach this this is the first time front office all those things i think they need to get depth and I think it’s hard to get that depth in the draft i don’t see a lot of players in their range that feel like instant fixes for what they need so I mean they could still do that a whole number of ways but at the same time I don’t think big swing in the draft is where they really need to be right now i think they need to figure out what they can do to get a player whether it’s trade 13 trade 22 like at some point I feel like they’ve got to be on high alert to to just get more depth to go with that core um that doesn’t mean that they have to trade one of those two but you know it depends on how they’re going to go about using their other resources so they know that i don’t know that so that makes it harder for me to say what they should do in the draft when I don’t fully know what their intentions are out of the draft yep but they need depth and if they’re not committed to doing it through non-draft means then they may need to get off of one of these picks to get a player yeah I think I said I’m glad you brought up in that way because you know I’m doing a lot of draft talk right now and I try to say this but like the draft is not done in a vacuum like you can approach picks in a vacuum like I’m actually a proponent of drafting best player available and we can talk about that if you want to but as far as like it’s it’s part of an overall plan and because the draft is first there is a level of uncertainty like one way that I’ve pushed back on this a little bit it’s not only about this is that there’s this belief that the Hawks have to draft a center because they just have to have it because I think part of that comes from a Congo skepticism and his height and all those things part of it also is that they don’t have a back of center right now and it’s like I get that if they didn’t have free agency or the ability to trade yeah you’d have to add a center through the draft but you have to do it somewhere you have to get a backup center we agree on that but that it could be in a trade could be in free agency same thing that has to do with rounding out the roster because you know you got Caris Levert is a that’s a decision you have to make that’s a guy that they need if he walks out the door you have even less depth uh so that’s a big decision they have to make um there’s the Trey domino i don’t know how you feel about that right now we can talk about that if you want to but it’s adding depth is not a sexy thing to do in the I want to list five players on a social media post era this is my starting lineup this is all this is all that matters but it does matter and we saw that last year i mean it’s you don’t have to look very far to see what happens when you lose a even one player like J johnson goes down and you don’t have requisite depth behind him and you are in trouble and it’s happened a couple times to the Hawks so um when you say depth do you what do you I think about position only do you just need quality players like what do you when you say depth what do you what do you mean by that well you need depth pretty much across the board but I think if you look at this Hawks roster the unstability or instability sorry within the roster especially is due to injury and it’s due to injury with their bigs like Trey is a guy who tends to stay healthy uh Zachary Reach looks like somebody who’s going to play in a way sort of within himself and and and kind of stay healthy dyson Daniels had a very healthy season that he just went through like I in their perimeter positions they seem to have a bunch of guys who can generally stay healthy and then if you flip that to the other side Moeka Aongu Jaylen Johnson uh Larry Nance Jr if he comes back they they just have a ton of people in their front court who have played a lot of 40 50 60 game seasons and so you know it’s not played on paper like you’ve got to realize where the most likely shortening of your roster is going to come from and I think due to that they’ve got to look big i don’t know that it’s necessarily they have to have a center but I think you have to be ready to have some size even in your other positions you know if if you’re drafting you know somebody who you think is going to play three you really need that to be a big three just because you know this tends to be a roster that when the injuries hit they hit up front uh you know it seems like it’s been a couple of years running now where it’s just they can’t put enough big players on the floor because they don’t have them at the end of the season so I I think the the front court depth is more important just because historically that’s where their injuries are going to be yeah and it’s interesting i think two years two seasons ago we talked a lot and Quinn talked a lot actually in press conferences you and I were sitting next to each other in about how they didn’t have much size that was a talking point last summer right and they did add it like if you look at this at the at the fully formed roster last season they had more size than they had previously zach Zachary is thin but he is all every bit of 69 maybe even taller than that at this point at the three jaylen Johnson has more than enough size at the four yes I know a Kongu is not the biggest guy at the five i get it but they have they got they have Mo Gay dyson’s a really big too actually with how physically strong he is trey will always be small but they did invest in some size but they couldn’t overhaul the entire roster in one in one summer to get all the size and you’re right they suddenly felt very small like George Nang is not a he’s not 610 he can play the four he’s he’s a thick he’s he’s a thick guy we all we all understand that about George but he is even that there’s some limitations to that um Carris Levert at the two has plenty of size if he’s playing the three he’s fairly undersized at that point in time terrence May is not the biggest guy in the world like he’s got decent size for a two again to your point like this is where I always say and not it’s not just the draft i want to always add as many like 68 69 forwards as I can like sign me up for all the 69 forwards you can’t have too many every time I try to draft or talk about a draft like well don’t don’t they have Rish and Johnson i’m like yeah they do and you need two more of those guys if you can help it you need so many more so it is a size even in the back court i mean Trey is Trey but your backup point guard ideally wouldn’t be a six-foot guy you would like to have in a perfect world this is me talking but I’d like to have a 6’4 65 backup point guard if I was the Hawks like just ver variably speaking you know someone like Don Barlo who got overstretched quite a bit this year was asked to play a bigger role than he’s probably ready for but is a guy that if he was your 15th man has size like he’s a big four he’s kind of a small five but he’s he’s got size he’s got talent he’s a really young guy so they need to invest there um whether that means in the draft of her agency we’ll see i think we’re on the same page with like just adding depth in general but also they do just I can already hear Quinn right now they they need more size they just do it’s It’s moderately killing me to watch Tony Bradley in the finals and think that your guy should have been in the h on the Hawks in March like that would have solved so many problems like he’s playing in the NBA finals like he’s he’s not good enough to come off your bench for 10 minutes a game in March like I just feel like they needed to figure out some way to get him in there because Yeah they uh they they protested the future they they chose to uh they sure did they they chose to give Dom who’s a young talented guy a team controlled contract rather than just converting or signing Bradley i don’t think they did him any favors because he’s playing he’s playing the wrong position he’s playing you know he was just overmatched like they needed him to do the things that he really wasn’t capable of and so it was just a mismatch so they prioritized it but it wasn’t a good developmental opportunity for him in my opinion fisher is brought to you by Lollipop lollipop is a new kind of soda made for people who love classic taste of soda but want something that actually supports their health with only two to five grams of sugar and nine grams of prebiotic fiber in every can Lollipop is reimagining soda in a way that’s better for your gut if you like traditional sodas they’re loaded with sugar 39 grams in a regular cocoa 44 grams in an orange fanta for example alip flip side scrap with just a fraction of the sugar no artificial sweeteners and gut friendly ingredients like Always Smart which is a 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man?” Uh do you like So going into year two with Terrence Man what do you think about that because every once in a while I get asked like “All right the Hawks trade for Terrence Man it was a weird trade we kind of all agreed it’s a weird trade the bogey trade was odd man’s got three years left.” All these things but he’s got a not a fresh start but a different he’s got a full off season the Hawks could look to move him like he could be a matching salary in a trade if they wanted to do that they have I think Nyang’s easier in that way because Nang is an expiring contract but what do you think of Terrence Man in the Terrence Man experience as of going into year one and a half I guess for him i mean I I feel like they have to look at him as potential salary filler if they can i mean it’s it’s difficult to maybe package him in a deal like that that might be difficult i’m sure there other teams aren’t dying to take on that you know it’s it’s not even like just about Terrence man it’s just a long contract it’s a long big contract so y you know if you can get it great but now at this point when you’re trying to include him as salary salary filler other teams might be like “No let’s work this other way.” But if if you can package him in a deal then then that’s certainly something that you you should be uh trying to do but yeah it’s it’s going to be a fresh start again things like you know where where do you try to get the depth for this roster well if you get the depth with bigger players like suddenly he fits more in a natural role like this wasn’t the most natural fit for him playing you know with Don Barlo as his center like that was just you know they they used him a lot as uh you know there were certainly a bunch of minutes at power forward at the end of the season because it was just that’s how thin they were and that’s just not the best way to use him but he’s got to figure it out on offense in particular like it’s just uh you know it was kind of tough to watch going through those playing games um you know there were there were times in the playing game where he was just not assertive enough on offense and if you know I think Quinn’s system is predicated on ball movement having lots of looks playing through multiple opportunities through the shot clock and if he’s making long slow decisions where he has to dribble five times like that’s just that’s a killer to what Quinn and you know the rest of the staff wants to do offensively so like they’ve got to figure out a way to make him fit you know maybe he misses shots maybe he’s not going to be the greatest three-point shooter this season but he’s got to fit within the system so that he’s making quick decisions because at that point it’s not just Terrence Man is killing Terrence Mann’s offense it’s Terrence Man is killing the whole bench offense so like they they they’ve got to you know reprogram is too strong of a word but they’ve got to make it fit just so that he’s fitting stylistically and not killing what they do on offense because it it it you know he was breaking down possessions too often and so that that just can’t happen yeah I I’m optimistic well relatively speaking I think he will be much more in tune to what the Hawks want him to do going into the next season sure it’s people underestimate I know you’re I’m not talking to you like how hard it is to come in especially for a guy who’s never been traded and he was pretty open with with us even about how he hadn’t been traded like he’s been only in the Clippers he had to move all these things and like different system and he’s not a guy that seemed to like click immediately with what they wanted to do and Quinn’s got a way he wants you to play in some in some ways it’s not like you’re not it’s not entirely you know tyrant like with Quinn like he he he adapts to players but he does want you to play a certain way um but yeah I mean I’ve I don’t it’s not a pile on Terrence man but he really is the only contract on the Hawks books that’s not a good contract like clearly a good contract and that’s that’s that’s a good sign for the Hawks going back to what we talked about at the beginning like good like a lot of teams have more than one shaky contract the Hawks have one shaky contract and it’s Terrence Smith that that’s a good spot to be in that could change in the future i mean you give an extension it doesn’t work out or whatever but right now everybody you have is on a good deal other than maybe Terrence so uh I just I wanted to ask you about him because he’s a guy that I haven’t talked about a lot this summer yet because it’s not like his time you know he’s not like in trade rumors he’s not a free agent all these things but he’s an interesting piece and because they have they have a line so a lot of money to him he’s going to play if he’s on the roster like he’s going to be part of the like he’s going to be a top eight player on the team if he’s on the team it’s just you have to make that work in whatever way he’s kind of duplicative with Dyson in some ways not always but kind of like I don’t I don’t love him and Dyson playing together generally speaking he’s kind of Dyson’s backup but that’s not a huge role dyson plays a lot and you know it’s just I I find I find it to be very interesting in an underdiscussed way the Terrence Man bit right now i think you know if if you can find a team that has a lot of depth in their bigs that’s searching for a perimeter piece like if you can find somebody that’s like we have this bad center contract and you know we well here we are the Hawks we have this bad guard contract you know maybe that’s you know you might go and get a big who’s not the most ideal contract but if you’re sort of swapping bad contract for bad contract but you get the right sort of position like that might be the kind of move where you can start to get that front court depth that they really need and if you know with 13 and 22 you know it might be something where you pick swap with them too you give them a slightly better pick you you take back a slightly worse pick something like that to to get a contract that’s maybe a little bit more palatable than man’s but you know he does feel like a like it’s not like he’s an untradeable contract but yeah if you trade him you might get a contract that doesn’t look so great either but maybe it doesn’t look so great in a way that actually fits your team a little bit better that is uh I think very possible i referenced Caris Levert earlier in passing would you be trying to sign Caris Levert if you were the Hawks and obviously it matters the price and all those things but would you be interested in a Caris Levert reunion if you were the Hawks yes at at the right price like I this is one where I really don’t have like a super strong feeling about it like it’s it’s hard like I guess there’s a certain number where it’s like you know I’d like it below that number and you know if it’s above this other number maybe it’s not you just have to have sort of the holistic approach like I don’t know what are the other things that they’re trying to do i don’t know what else they they can do to kind of add depth to the roster but if he came back sure that that would be a good thing like that it’s it’s all contingent on price now because you’re kind of nibbling within the margins and you’re trying to do things within a finite constraint but you know at the right number it’s it’s a good thing but it it’s really hard to say and it’s hard to pinpoint it without a little bit more context of what they want to do in their other roster situations yeah and not to go back to man but I also feel like Levert and Man are not like the best fit on the same roster it’s just an interesting thing like I I’ve made the point that and I believe this it gets really hard for them offensive creation wise if they don’t bring Levert back like you you don’t want to overstretch Levert either like he’s not a guy that you want as your second best initiator on the roster but like if you don’t have him and this is the roster you have without him they have to go get somebody like they can’t go into the into the season with with no other they’re already honestly I think they’re already short of creation with Gareth Levert on the roster oh absolutely like it gets real dicey without him and granted having Jaylen back will help with some of this stuff but Jaylen I I think and I love Jaylen is probably overrated in that area by some people uh some Hawks fans like we also haven’t We also haven’t seen it though like we haven’t seen it i mean we have seen it but we haven’t seen it where he’s not playing a whole bunch of his minutes with Clint Capella that’s true and I’m not I I know this is the wrong venue to to on the Clint Propella parade it’s fine but we saw it with Zachary like when when Anka started instead of Clint that turned Zachary’s world upside down like that was just he could you know he was basically a corner three-point shooter and as soon as Enka was in the lineup that changed everything for him because he could kind of run b corner to corner along the baseline and he could play in the dunker zone or in the dunker spot and so he you know he had this whole new path it would just change the geometry of the court for him when when Anko played instead of Clint because Clint you know Anko was in the short role he’s up around the free throw line where he’s out at the three-point line you know opposite Zachary like it the spacing was just so different that that Zachary really just kind of went from point A to point B as soon as was in the starting lineup with him and so Jaylen and Yeka have incredible chemistry to begin with but it’s not the kind of thing where Anekka has been out there to start games with him and so you know it may now be the kind of situation where instead of the Hawks having to react to other teams you know if Jaylen starts the game putting pressure on the rim the other team has to react before the Hawks so like it’s and the reason they’re going to have to react is because he’s putting pressure on the rim because he can create a little bit better with that space like I I’m it’s not like he has incredible creation but you know when the geometry of the court changes you know he has the physical gifts to just do certain things that a lot of people can’t and so teams are going to have to react with a very limited number of options because they’re they’re just not going to have that many guys who can cover Jaylen in the first place no it’s true and I it’s a good I’m glad you pointed that out it’s true i still think and you I think you nodded with me like they they need they still need more shot creation they need way more and again if they don’t replace if they don’t have LVert it even becomes a more glaring issue may so but you know and maybe there’s a a deal in conjunction like maybe then they could trade around the draft for a shot creator or someone else and then that that lets them kind of let Carris go i I don’t know i I I think from what I’ve heard what’s been reported that they’re interested in bringing Carish back i’m thinking that’s probably going to happen i’m on board with that as long as you don’t get crazy with with the number I think it’s a good sign for the Hawks that there isn’t a lot of money out there beyond the mid-level exception and if you give Carris mid-level exception money that’s fine that he’s worth that kind of money that’s fine don’t if there was like a $20 million offer waiting for Caris Lever I’d get a little bit queasy but I don’t think that offer exists if I had to guess and if it is maybe it’s a short-term thing where like maybe you’re overpaying him annually to get to keep to get the years down i’m okay with that too there’s some wiggle room there but I think he’s a good player he’s a good defender too he’s not a I mean he’s not he’s not the biggest guy in the world but he can defend guards and do a good job there and check boxes no he’s a he’s a great player i think the biggest thing that you worry about with him is just health like if if he’s healthy he he’s fine he’ll he’ll fit what they need s is brought to you by Game Time there’s nothing like the NBA playoffs the intensity buzzer beers the fans in their minds it’s all kind of the experience of the atmosphere that you have to experience live if you want in at Game Time they make it fast and easy to get seats even for the biggest possible playoff games prices on the app actually drop them closer to tip off and that these coast last minute deals and no surprise fees and all that makes game time a total game changer for you i love that I can see my exact view before I buy the tickets with no surprises when you actually arrive at the venue and the NFL schedule is now out as well you better believe I’m already looking at my plans for the fall and the calendars picking up which games to hit how to travel all that stuff and get makes 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some four offensive questions is is now they have Jayen back is having Niang and Mo enough at the backup four like for instance even we’ll probably come back to this no matter who they draft I’m probably going to tell people that that that rookie is not going to help them win a ton as a rookie uh either one of the guys that draft if they make two picks so if you’re trying to win this year do they need to invest more in another guy could play who could play backup four somewhere on the roster maybe it’s someone play back at 3-2 or like can you get away with going into the season with Niang and Mo behind Jaylen that’s a good question it’s one that’s one I’ve been contemplating a lot because it’s like I think George Nang is pretty good honestly but he’s there’s some matchups where it’s like man I don’t know if he could play tonight and right now he has to play every night with the way they’ve built the roster i think it’d be nice to have situation where he doesn’t have to play again we I keep going back to it but for me it’s like about health because I I trust Niang niang’s just kind of roll him out there he’s gonna go out and play and be healthy like I don’t worry about it speaking of guys who have like incredible uh records of health knock on wood but Niang doesn’t get hurt like he pretty much never gets hurt so that’s good yeah i mean that’s what I do when I’m playing basketball people are like “Are you okay?” I’m like “I don’t move fast enough to get hurt i don’t jump high enough to get hurt i’m fine.” Like it’s just it’s just physics like we’re good um so but I worry about it with respect to Mo like he’s not you know he hasn’t shown like hey I can be a 60 game a year you know I’m going to play three games in four nights and be healthy so a little bit I I’m still kind of partial and and part of it is you know we don’t know what the team’s going to look like next year but I’m still kind of partial to the lineups that have Nang at the three like that’s fine with me when you’re as desperate for shooting as the Hawks are right now like playing Nyang at the three works for me like because because if you play him at the three what you’re doing is you should be doubling up with your rim protectors and so if that’s the case you should have your rim protectors situated out there in such a way that one of them is going to be relatively close to the rim and so then Nang can just play like you might have to figure out some things maybe this isn’t what you do when Trey’s out there you do this when Trey is off or something but like you know put putting a Yang on somebody that he could certainly not an offensive focal point when he’s out there at the three give him a couple of rim protectors like that’s that’s fine you need his shooting he’s an unbelievable shooter he’s a smart basketball player he knows Quinn’s offense completely and thoroughly so like I want Nyang back i don’t you know I hope I hope he’s back obviously he’s under contract i don’t mean it like that but like you know he’s one of those pieces where if you make a deal maybe he’s salary filler but I hope that’s not the case like I think you know another year with better big depth i think the problem for Nang was just that the Hawks had no good defensive bigs coming off the bench by the time he got there it was dire yeah it was Yeah it was just too thin so like I don’t like the situation where Niang is the power forward with somebody who is not a stout rebounding rim protecting five like if you got kind of a wishy-washy four five out there with him and he’s the four I Yeah that’s just really hard to watch we went through this with Sadique Bay like and God bless Sadi Bay he was again you know it’s like like I said the the the depth of the bigs has been with respect to injury has been an issue for the Hawks now but like you know Sadique Bay sort of did the things that was asked of him but they just had no pieces around him and it you just watch it and it wasn’t sustainable and I feel that way with a lot of the lineups where Nang is at the four and I I think he’s a great basketball player but you have to use him within the right context so you know if you if you don’t think that Mo Gay is a stay healthy play 70 games kind of player then yeah you get one more player yeah makes sense to me and I’m intrigued by Mo i want to I want to give Mo a real chance to contribute i want to have Mo be you know in the mix i also have a hard time not having a backup plan if Mo can’t stay healthy and he just has said it’s kind of similar to Kobe Buffett we don’t have to do the whole Kobe Buffin thing mo’s done Mo’s proven more than Kobe has now absolutely but it’s similar like you know they just haven’t that it’s been health for both of those guys mo was out for a long time he just happened to come back this year and show some stuff hopefully Kobe has the same in year three you don’t know that at this point in time we could go all day on this stuff and I we won’t have to i I do want to before I let you go ask about the draft because the draft’s in a week as you and I are talking i I’ve I’ve heard you guys at ATL29 kind of weigh into the draft waters a little bit it’s funny i I don’t want to know how many guys you’ve planned to talk about on each episode because I know you get to like two of them and I can kind of hear you laughing that you’ve only gotten to two players that’s what I do on the podcast too um we don’t talk about a ton of players but even going into the draft and obviously I’m know you’ve watched guys by now anybody standing out to you any theoretical skill sets you know state of the draft what where are we like the Hawks are in this weird spot like I’ve been doing a lot of draft stuff with people that cover the draft you cover the Hawks so what are you thinking i mean to me let me get a list of names here just so that I’m not forgetting somebody or leaving somebody out the thing to me is like I don’t see the sol like in in looking at the players that are there I hear a lot of draft to center draft to center draft to center it’s hard to like see a lot of these guys being like a ready center especially this year like obviously this year but even like I don’t know I think there are some players that are just overvalued because of their size and you watch what they did in playing games at the college level or in Europe and you watch these games and it’s like not ready probably not even close to being ready so like you know when I look at this draft you know what I’m thinking is first of all draft drafting a big I don’t think you’re going to solve anything for year one and maybe not for year two if you draft a big agreed i don’t think you want to try to like package the two picks and trade up for a big like that doesn’t look like a palatable option to me either i don’t think that solves any problems i I’m sort of more in the situation of you know try to get a good player like I think they’re going to have to react on the spot if you have one player two players three players like can can you wait and see if Colin Murray Boils falls to you like I feel like he would be a really good fit for for what they need in terms of not just not size at one position but just kind of overall size and a guy who’s kind of ready to you know closer to being ready than some of these bigs are yep so like I feel like the big problem is going to have to be solved maybe separate from the draft i don’t see the solution um with the players who are here it you know I don’t feel good about moving up and I don’t feel good about drafting a lot of these bigger players who when I watch the tape uh from what they did in college or Europe I just don’t feel that good about it so I think it’s more of you’re going to have to react on the fly i feel like what they should be doing is you know have a list of one two three four players who might drop to them at 13 and then be ready to adapt um yeah i mean you you kind of have to do that anyway it’s one of the challenges being I think it’s it’s I think it’s more pressing this year than than it is has been in a lot of years like they’re so close and they have such specific needs that like I I think that this should probably be a draft where they are very active as opposed to a lot of drafts where it’s like you know do do what you can you know maybe you you’re more in developmental mode they’re they’re closer they they need to get guys who are ready and fit better now than than they have been in the last couple of seasons yeah and I’m okay taking one project like if they if they like a guy that’s not going to help them for instance uh it’s not I’m not saying they have to draft this guy but if they wanted to draft Baron Jay who’s like the very raw very raw not anywhere close to being able to help you big I’m okay with that if you as long as you treat it that way like he’ll be he’ll be in College Park a lot of the season like he’s that level of guy that’s fine with me you just got to know what you’re getting into um that’s right and And so if you draft him at 13 then I think you need to be ready to make a move at 22 because I don’t know that you have two roster spots that you want to commit to this kind of developmental project yeah I agree i I do think that in a vacuum you you want to add somebody that not that necessarily has to play a ton for you but that can be on the court maybe early in the season or at least by the middle of a season i’m a proponent always of saying you know rookies are generally not very good in overall but you know if you draft again doesn’t have to be this guy but if you draft Nate Clifford he could probably play for you like at some point this year um even if you draft someone like Rashir Fleming or Walter Clayton Jr like some of these guys who have like more readymade games they may not kill you even if it’s somebody who’s young and not polished yet but like has the physical tools like I don’t think Carter Bryant is gonna be like a very great rookie but if he falls to you like he has a physicality to be able to be on the court in the NBA right now i don’t think he can play i don’t think he’d be very good as a rookie but like maybe but you’re I mean Murray Boles is my guy too like uh people that heard the the locked on mock draft he fell to me at 22 that’s not going to happen I don’t think in real life but he did fall at 22 murray Boils murray boys oh uh but even then that was like the fastest possible send in the card i was like uh I thought about him at 13 and didn’t take him i was like wow 22 sign me up but yeah there it’s just a lot of give and take and it’s hard to go into the draft i see a lot of certainty of like the Hawks need to do exactly this and this and for me it’s like in a draft like this with spots that are close together but not that close together you have no clue who’s going to be there and no one does i mean 13’s more projectable but by 22 I mean it could be their their uh their group of guys they’re evaluating at 22 could be 10 guys like real easy because you just don’t know who’s going to still be there one one last thought on the bigs sure is it’s like it’s a little bit of like a sliding scale like the younger guys just don’t look like they’re ready a lot of the older guys just don’t look like they have a lot of defensive flexibility like there’s a lot of them that just look like kind of drop only bigs and I don’t know that that solves a whole lot of things for the Hawks yeah like the one guy who maybe is sort of in between the one the one one player who might be able to break that mold is Thomas Sorber like I was gonna say that same thing he might be the one where like he’s a younger guy but he’s ready he’s not going to be somebody who you have to like play and drop like he’s he’s like maybe the one exception but most of the other bigs is like yeah not ready not ready not ready or you know with some of the older guys ready but ready to only do one thing and I’m not sure that that’s good enough for the Hawks at this point i was going to say I mean someone like Kulkrunner like I think I think I think he can play an NBA game right now yes but that’s not and that’s f I mean what I get it but also to your point I think it’s pretty rigid like he is he’s a massive which helps he’s got some offensive versatility and maybe shooting but defensively I think he’s he’s a drop guy that’s just what he’s going to have to be and that’s okay probably not that good at drop either like it’s right at least not early on a drop Marvel like a drop oh hope and pray kind of drop yeah I think we’re on the same page like and I I don’t think you should be drafting for the rookie season anyway i will always say that but um be realistic on what you’re getting would be what I would say do you have a favorite player is there a guy you love you don’t have to have an answer for this i just thought you might I might ask or maybe maybe it’s two or whatever maybe it’s Sora i don’t know for like the 10th time tonight I’m gonna say you know it’s sort of dependent on of course what you think about him healthwise but like Cedric Coward like Yep i have a little bit of a sweet spot for him i feel like he’s one of those guys like I can see him playing in an NBA game and and and fitting in with the things that he can do um so that that that’s probably the one that I feel like I’m higher on compared to most yeah but again yeah you know I that’s such a weird injury and it’s it’s the kind of injury that when you when you have to like chase over picks like I don’t know yeah i mean I’m not a medical expert um yes you are aren’t you aren’t you married to one or something yeah that doesn’t help me i’m still having a smart wife doesn’t make me smart uh no my my only regret in the locked on mafra is that uh Coward went 12 and I was going to take him at 13 and he went 12 so I was I had to pivot um and I was kind of in a hurry anyway but I I like Coward as well and that’s a swing and that’s a risky endeavor i think people maybe that like him like I think you and I both do you don’t want to ignore that’s a risky pick there’s some upside there but it’s not I wouldn’t call it safe by any means um but yeah I mean there’s not anybody that’s I’m gonna tell you it’s like a grand slam and I won’t ask you to to be negative about anybody i almost asked you like who you don’t want but you know what let’s not let’s not talk about that it’s not worth it it’s fine i mean you if you have an answer you feel free to share it if you want to get it on the record oh I I feel that way about a few players it’s not even like Yeah it’s sort of like mildly like Raino not terribly excited about him because Hawks fans are mad at be mad at you now hawks fans are rhythm on Rena it feels like he’s a drop center again like saying somebody is a drop center doesn’t mean that they’re good at drop like Yeah you know what I mean well I heard I heard our mutual friend Tyler compare it to Mike Mscala on your podcast and I was like “Oh actually it’s pretty it’s pretty good.” that that’s a very reasonable comparison defensively I think he’s got more offensive upside than Mike had but the defensively and that was the thing about Mscala defensively is like he kind of had a drop but he could he wasn’t very good at it like he could he could do it but he wasn’t going to ever be good defensively so uh not bad and you know and even then like takes a couple of years like you know that’s the kind of player where I don’t think you’re going to see him play year one he should be in College Park if you draft him which is tough when he’s a four-year guy in college like if you’re an older prospect and you’re not more ready like I think it might be more ready than maybe you do by that answer but like I still not in super I think 22 would be totally fine i Yeah that would be fine yeah I had I had someone uh I think it was Yeah Raphael Barlo was like talking about him at 13 on my on my podcast and I think Raphael’s really smart but I would not like that at 13 i think it’s that’s just too aggressive um I’m and and I actually don’t I’m not a person in this class that’s like yes at 13 and no at 22 sorry or sorry yes at 22 and no at 13 generally speaking it’s just like too firm for me but 13 just seems rich for a couple guys like that like I think him and maybe Kulkbriner that seems rich to 13 like I wouldn’t want to do that any it won’t happen anyway at 13 but like uh there’s a couple guys like that I think Asa Newell is like at 22 maybe 13 I wouldn’t do that um I don’t like Edgor Deon very much so the Hawks are going to draft him almost certainly [Laughter] Uh but no there there was a I’m not sure if you saw there was an ESPN mock that uh I kind of made fun of on on Patreon it wasn’t not a Gavon and Jeremy Wood who do a really good job but I believe it was uh it was Deon and oh man who who am I forgetting it was like Oh it was Deon and Danny Wolf and I was like boy that’s the worst case scenario for me uh I I don’t I would not handle that well on the podcast but they have bags uh yeah anyway well Kevin I already captured you longer than I said I was going to i appreciate you doing this we could probably do two hours very easy sorry you couldn’t get Zach low and you had to settle for me uh I did shoot my shot at Zach who I I know a little bit but not enough to be like “Please come on my podcast.” Uh and also I don’t know if you know sometimes people are like hard it’s like hard to get people to come on that are like at big outlets because they’re like not even allowed to sometimes you have to like negotiate with their like people it’s hard i love you Zach come on the podcast uh Kevin again thank you if people I don’t know how I don’t know who is following my podcast doesn’t know your work already but if that if they if that’s happening where can they find all your stuff because it should be followed oh just write forhawks.com and atln29 podcast which uh great show i enjoy can’t tweet links anymore because Twitter died so just you just say you just say link in bio that’s what I do all the time now it’s like and I feel I feel so dumb doing that but it it just it it works better than trying to send a link out which is it’s unfortunate but like many algorithms it’s broken it is very broken well thank you sir i appreciate you doing this and uh I will reveal now at the 40-minute mark when I asked you to do the podcast about a week ago you said that’s a week from now that that was your answer that was your text response to me that’s a week from now i was like is that a yes is that a no where are we here can we plan that far ahead but no thank you for making the time i appreciate it Kevin as everybody else please subscribe to the podcast tell your friends follow 29 and we’ll see you all next time

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland) Episode 2000 (!) of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Kevin Chouinard of Hawks.com and the ATL and 29 Podcast. The discussion centers on the state of the Atlanta Hawks as the offseason kicks into high gear, including priorities for the summer, the 2025 NBA Draft, free agency decisions, and much more.

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