Miami Heat: The Duncan Robinson dilemma | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: The Duncan Robinson dilemma | Five on the Floor

welcome to the latest episode of Five on the Floor on the Five Reason Sports Network thanks for joining us on your favorite podcast app on Apple Apple Podcast on Android Spotify or the Five Reasons YouTube channel check out Off the Floor that’s our Discord server two bucks to 99 cents per month link right here in the description you’re going to want to be on there during the draft we’ll have the draft channel going of course transaction channel is always there nba Finals channel got people on that we sort everything for you makes it a lot easier than going on Twitter it’s worth the $299 you can cancel at any time use the link in the description to bypass the Apple Upcharge also check out prize picks use the code 5 fiv greg and I are in a tight race for first place got one more game probably i don’t think we’re going to get a game seven in this one one more game what are you up with me like five bucks so I got to make that up tonight use the code five fiv you can make your own money you get $50 to play right away legal in the state of Florida and if you want to play MLB you can do that too also get ready for NFL season prize.com use the code fiv and now today’s episode [Music] [Applause] luxurious heat nation yeah mercy down the gang five on the floor ride for my dogs well here’s the thing you can check the score hustle hard couple stars wearing bubble fen [Music] one hand and pap have the guts we’re here to bring the heat y’all can hang it up welcome to Five on the Floor a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan Skolnick Greg Sander Alex Toledo Brady Hawk and others from the Five Reason Sports Network also make sure to subscribe to Off the Floor for the most heat anywhere all right welcome back to Five on the Floor here’s today’s floor plan i’m Ethan Skulling you can follow me at Ethan Joling at Five Reason Sports at Greg Savander you can follow him at Greg Slander today we’re going to talk about Duncan Robinson and this is one of the things about the NBA business I don’t love because we get to a certain point with players where they become contracts instead of people and we’re going to try to split the difference on this one because Doug Robinson’s been a really important part of the Heat for the past few years i mean he got on me when I said “You’re still here at media day this year.” But he has still been here i mean it’s it’s him it’s Bam those are the two longest tenur players on this team and then it’s Tyler and I joked with him this should be the Duncan Robinson build it’s not going to be the Duncan Robinson build anymore though most likely so uh what we’re going to talk about today is what he means to them as a player the likelihood that he’s not going to be with them next year and what that means contractually as we’re talking about trades with KD so first let’s start with this part because as a player I mean you’re talking about a player who has literally set records not just heat records but NBA records as a shooter and he was someone who if you recall he was like subbed in for Dwayne i mean he played with Dwayne okay i mean this is how long we’re going back here and you know this is a guy who when he first came up I don’t think anybody really expected him to stick for the long term williams College to uh to Michigan but undrafted and he’s one of their most successful undrafted players of all time i I think I mean would you and I agree on this um UD is one right i mean has to be because Yes just o overall impact absolutely um there’s statistical cases to be made for Duncan in certain ways which is crazy that we’ve arrived here and I know that that’s probably where you were heading but UD has to take that number one undrafted spot because I mean his his numbers up in the rafters okay but could we make an argument that Duncan is second i mean if we look at others I mean you’ve got Kale Martin came here from another team right contributed to an Eastern Conference Finals Championship Eastern Conference uh you know finals win over Boston uh Gabe Vincent was big for them you go all the way back to Anthony Carter helped him win a playoff series became a coach with them you know Whiteside was drafted he was he was and he he came here afterwards but he was drafted in the second round so just to clarify on on some of these but they’ve had a ton of these success stories strus is obviously another one heywood Highmith has become another one in recent years but I mean going back are we is it fairly safe to say he would be two of all these guys we’ve talked about he’s the best shooter in Heat history and the thing about that is the Heat have had a lot of good shooters come through the building and for Duncan to be uh the franchise leader he’s been part of um some pretty magical runs that I don’t think everybody expected uh I would like to remind everybody that the first time you heard about Duncan Robinson was when I tweeted about him at Michigan and the Heat were looking um and were interested at in his game back then uh and it’s just crazy that he’s stuck this long and it’s funny that you teed up the pod too with the conversation you had with him where you said you’re still here because I I know that you meant it in kind of like an endearing way and he took it completely the other way um took it totally wrong yeah it it it’s just it’s going to be I think obviously I think fans just want to see the team improve so it’s not going to be as a um emotional of an exit as like you know a UD or a Dwayne obviously um but e even there’s been other guys that have kind of um been parts of contending teams that we think about uh in history whether it’s like the Mario Chalmer’s of the world or Mike Millers of the world stuff like that i think that the Heat fan right now is going to be pretty interested in what goes on with the updates to the roster and how the team gets better so it’s kind of going to be a shame that I think it’s going to be a sort of quiet exit for Duncan although I I I would be interested if the best shooter in Heat history gets a tribute video on his way back through uh but I am getting ahead of myself i realize that I I think he should actually if that’s the case i mean others that we could talk about i mean Rodney McGrder u I mean you I mean who else kendrick Nun obviously was very brief um and then I was looking also oh oh Tyler Johnson too is another one who was I mean they’ve had a a bunch of these guys but I I think it’s fair to say that Duncan is too in light of that at this point okay and we just did an assets rank the assets pod brady and I did and it was more about what other teams would want more so than what how the Heat would value them but right now as we describe Duncan’s contract situation I’m going to ask you this question at the end is he more valuable to the Heat right now as a contract than as a player because when we when we start to talk about the contract this is what could grease the wheels for a Durant trade but also once they trade him they may have a serious der of shooting so this is question second but I appreciate Sean Rochester doing this he reached out uh to Bobby Marks on this to get specificity on Duncan’s contract so we could explain it properly and it is explained and off the floor so if you subscribe there and you see the host updates uh you’ll get it before we do it here so Sean uh posted here in host updates I wanted to get clarification on Duncan’s contract think there’s been confusion in the chat in recent days see below for Bobby Marx’s response and breakdown of the options and of course the contract notes this is um according to Spotrak early termination option deadline 62925 on 2526 9.888 million so roughly $10 million guaranteed fully guaranteed two days after the 2025 moratorum ends which means that’s July 8th because the moratorium ends on July 6th so and then just to this part of it he he messaged Bobby uh and he said the heat uh acquiring team can’t pay him 9.8 million and he stays in the team if he stays he gets the full salary and Bobby respi responded “Yes it’s an early termination that the player has the right to become a free agent if he doesn’t which is likely he’s guaranteed 9.8 million the remaining amount is guaranteed if he’s on the roster past 78 that’s July 8th considering he’s not being bought out and just waved he can sign with Miami but doesn’t have bird rights if he’s traded he can’t sign with Miami if he’s waved by his new team.” People should understand that that’s a that’s an old rule that goes back to uh something Boston did with I believe Gary Payton way back when and then your explanation was so Duncan could just terminate the contract by June 29th which he probably won’t do then if he doesn’t terminate the deal Miami then has to make a decision to keep him for 20 or wave him and pay only 10 but then you’re talking about $10 million in dead cap um so and can I take it a step further and I I failed to mention this on Discord but I think it’s an important part that Miami could consider um and this is a really interesting contract the way that they crafted it because they essentially can see if they get something done to before the moratorum ends uh to make the final decision on whether to keep Duncan around for 20 million or to realize some of those savings uh by waving him right but um I I I think that this is another key thing they could uh wave him and um I think you could wave and stretch the final amount so you could save even more money um off of off the books so I I think that that’s just something also that we should consider is that they could wave and stretch the remaining 9.8 over the course of three years okay so now let’s take it to Phoenix aside and Brady and I touched on this a little bit but since we’re going into more depth on this particular contract the benefit for Phoenix if they choose this benefit is that they are above the second apron being above the second apron not only is expensive which Mattishbia the owner doesn’t seem to care about but it limits you in terms of vehicles that you can use and one of the things that they can’t do is because they’ve been over the second apron is aggregate salaries and that’s kind of bit them a little bit lately now they have new front office leadership there brian Gregory has been elevated james Jones seems to have been pushed to the side uh Josh Bartlestein is dealing with a whole bunch of issues there it’s not really clear the direction they’re looking to go except that Ishbia has been quoted as saying he’s going to be more involved than he was before which is see seemingly impossible but apparently that’s the direction he’s not pulling back so I guess the question becomes how valuable is it to them to acquire Duncan now they wouldn’t You don’t think they would keep Duncan right they they would they would acquire him to wave him and get the t get the tax savings right yes that that’s the whole I feel like as Miami is pitching their offer to Phoenix it’s probably like look we can check off a box with a draft pick he can check check off a box with either a useful piece in Andrew Wiggins or a younger player if you know one of the young guys were to be included and then the the third box they check Ethan is that they provide financial relief and Phoenix of all teams needs financial relief and so that’s why I really feel like yeah there’s other teams around the league that could obviously use the financial relief that would be interested miami may be just as interested in that financial relief but Phoenix is one of the unique scenarios where they’ve been so bad and they’re so expensive that you would think that the Duncan contract would be not just any $20 million salary that’s getting slotted in there when you consider that you can kind of wave them and and and take back a lot of that you know so I I feel like Phoenix of all teams would value that contract more than just uh the average team around the league and that to be clear none of the other teams that we’re talking about right now or have been talked about as possible trade partners for Phoenix for one reason or another whether it’s San Antonio which hasn’t seemed that engaged Houston which seems like they’re trying to get them to pony up more of their better young assets minnesota which they seem to like an offer but Durant doesn’t seem to want to go there which complicates things in terms of him signing extension the same seems true of Toronto all of these teams that we’re talking about cannot offer this piece they they can’t they can’t lessen the load on Phoenix and this feels to me in some ways like when you’re making this offer to Phoenix you’re saying you should want this you should want to have more flexibility but the owner may not and that’s the thing like if if the owner cares about that then this becomes this more than a sweetener i think I think it’s significant but the owner may not care about it and that’s the thing if he’s just about sort of pushing forward with talent and it’s hard look it’s hard to make an argument against that because that’s what heat fans want the Heat to do most of the time and so I but Phoenix just hasn’t been operated as well as the Heat typically and so that’s that’s why it’s like okay this is sort feels like new owner syndrome a little bit terms of of what the way they’re going about it on the other side of this I want to talk about the likelihood of this actually taking place but also I mean the very real basketball consequences here if you get Kevin Durant like you said people aren’t going to care about it but they don’t have any shooting on this roster right now so Kevin Durant’s a great shooter but they’re going to need more than that uh if Duncan’s included in this trade so we’ll talk about kind of where that goes before we do you know what you need you need to be able to send money safely securely quickly right i mean everybody you know you’re paying for 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Panthers and Heat both have 40% so uh topic I’m going to get into with Will i think the difference is going to be the Panthers is going to go longer um it’s just because they’re positioned to go longer they don’t have a LeBron who’s leaving that’s basically uh what’s happening barkoff is signed for like 25 more years so that that’s the difference but Panthers also didn’t face the scrutiny that the Big Three Heat did didn’t have to deal with that on a day-to-day basis and to me that’s what for now has me having to heat ahead of them but we’ll see where this is in about four more parades um well the Panthers are give the Panthers credit and I know I don’t talk hockey often they’re really um manipulating the salary cap in a great way like they have a lot of guys um like I was looking at Edmonton’s salaries and they’ve got like two guys that make a ton of money and then everybody else is kind of way back so they they can’t spend on a on a goalie uh and the Panthers are really well built out salary structure-wise like their their money is spread out well very good hockey analysis i will tell you uh once they get Marshon and E and uh Eblad and um Bennett all back on discounts just you’re going to see all of Canada burn because they think they think it’s all because of no state tax and I’m like okay see this is what we could always do in this town whenever somebody complains about South Florida having advantages whether it’s no state tax or the beaches or the weather or you know the night life or whatever just say I mean look at the Dolphins it’s not like it helps them right so and as a Dolphin fan I know you can relate to that they’re they’re always the exception to everything marlins I don’t they don’t even register at this point all right let’s get back to the Duncan conversation here so to get a Durant deal done it feels fairly certain this contract would need to be included right or do you think there’s any way that they could be coaxed into say Rosir i don’t in the last year of his deal i I really I mean unless the Heat are going to come up off of more draft capital and they’re more open-minded to that than I think they are I don’t I don’t see that i think Duncan would be a primary vehicle for the way that they match salaries um Andrew Wiggins seems like another logical fit that I think a lot of people have kind of connected those dots to to pull together what Phoenix would want but even if the Heat do pivot Ethan like and they have to go in a different direction and we’re going to do another episode about this topic but just like a sneak peek into it if if Demar D Rozan becomes a a conversation Sacramento would likely value Duncan’s contract in that scenario as well like that would be a scenario where they could look to save and um so I just think that the Heat are going to be looking to do business early with all of this because of the very fact that Duncan um there’s just there’s dates where things are going to need to be uh finalized and I mean he could obviously just walk away on 629 he has an early termination option so Duncan Robinson could just not be a trade piece for the Heat by walking away from his contract but nobody thinks he’ll do that and so I just think because then the ETH is when the Heat have to make their decision on to wave him or not it’s just he’s going to be involved in every conversation going forward and it’s a shame that to your point as you started the show he’s leaving as kind of just a contract that’s making you know the pieces work in in our trade machines versus remembering the fact that he’s you know the greatest shooter in in Heat history and he’s been around town a lot i know he’s he actually was at a Panther game was miked up um at one of the Panther games and you know he’s been a fixture here to to a to a large degree over the past few years i I don’t think he’d walk away from that contract at that point although I I will say this it was unusual that he didn’t speak to the media on exit interview day that I can’t remember him ever doing that maybe there was one time so there has felt like there’s finality here with everything that’s going on but the last part of this and and again we got more episodes to get to but we wanted to at least acknowledge this particular part of everything is that if they do trade him they got to find shooting um Durant is not Durant and hero are not enough they’re they’re going to need to find additional shooting and and don’t give me bam and wear i mean at best case scenario they’ll be plus shooters as bigs but they’re not you know knocked down be knocked down no you can’t rely on that so Alec Burks was recently at a Miami at a junior heat camp and I know Iran Anthony talked to him and and he said he want his priority is to be here um if he’s the minimum if he’s a minimum deal you just you just do it no brainer right for me that’s a layup yeah you just bring him back he was nothing but professional he could um not play and then play like he has that ability to sit and then go in the game and figure it out very quickly and I’ve I have seen that this coaching staff particularly Spolster values that ability um it’s why we’ve seen him go to vets over young players throughout the year so yeah Alec Burks at the minimum coming back if you have to fill roster spots it makes a ton of sense because to your point about Duncan leaving if you add even Durant and Tyler you still need like release valve shooting around those guys so that there’s space to operate so you can’t just have your your volume shooters also be your or your volume scorers excuse me also be your like you know uh top shooters i I feel like yeah I maybe Steph and Clay get away with that but you got to surround um you got to surround those guys with more than frankly just Alec Burks that’s not enough so we’ll see what other places they’d probably be working with minimums or undrafted contracts I would think um unless they were to spend a mid-level exception type salary on a shooter but I don’t think they’re going in that direction so they’re gonna have to probably unearth another gem to um kind of slide in here from a shooting perspective that’s kind of what I project forward and we don’t really know that they have one in the pipeline like they they didn’t have one in the G-League this year that we were I know there was some hope about Cole Swider before or now he’s been on like four teams since but you could tell I thought right away that he wasn’t really an NBA uh player because it just defensively the way that he moved he was too stiff i I I think that uh you know Haywood has become you know a a passable shooter in these situations but again he’s not a specialist like I it’s fine to have him on the floor he’s probably going to be left open and he’s he’s had nights where he’s made other teams pay and he’s still under contract this year too i’m a little bit surprised that his name hasn’t come up as a possible sweetener for some of these teams because I think he’s a guy who could help a lot of teams i think the Heat would like to keep him but he’s on he’s on a cheap deal this year and he’s another guy potentially but yeah they’re going to need shooting no question about it um you know Durant again is a plus shooter from everywhere on the floor and I’m not speaking as if they’re getting Durant i’m just saying if they got Durant do do you see you mentioned Sacramento and I’ll close with this because we’re going to do a separate episode on D Rozan our 75th episode on D Rozan over the past like six years uh but remember Sacramento basically acquired Duncan last summer the deal fell through and I’ I’ve explained this before and and now Duncan’s in the last year of the contract he has more value now than he did last year and that deal was supposed to be uh Harrison Barnes for Duncan Robinson because uh essentially as part of the D Rozan deal see this all comes back together it’s part of the three-way D Rozan deal which included Chicago and San Antonio uh Kevin Herurder was originally going to be traded to San Antonio and so Sacramento needed to replace him in their lineup and so they were going to trade uh Barnes but then San Antonio wanted Barnes instead and to keep him and that’s when Sacramento didn’t need Duncan anymore so you’re on to something with the Sacramento part of this like if they liked him before why wouldn’t they like him now uh to keep him potentially maybe we’ll see okay but also he could create relief there too so there there’s there’s different places that Duncan would be sent but I think the most likely scenario and I’ll let Sean sum this up because I will say this our Sean Rochester was like president of the Duncan Robinson fan club when everybody was down on Duncan a couple seasons ago and Duncan says even and sorry not Duncan Shawn even as a Duncan supporter every outcome with Duncan not in Miami July 10th seems like the better option not because he’s not a good player but because he’s a good contract and I I I hate that that’s what this becomes but that’s what this becomes and I do think he would get some kind of a video when he came back uh longevity of of time I think there’d be I I I think it’s I think it’s warranted anyway uh for Greg I’m Ethan you know that already uh Cash App use the code on the floor and then also prize picks use the code FIV thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the five reason sports network after all someone needs to listen to my dad

Duncan Robinson has been one of the Miami Heat’s great undrafted success stories. But now he may have more value to the Heat as a contract to include in a trade. Ethan Skolnick and Greg Sylvander give Robinson his props, while exploring the best course of action from here.

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