T-Mac & Gilbert Arenas DIVE DEEP into Rockets’ outlook 🚀 + C-Webb on ‘RING CULTURE’ | First Take

T-Mac & Gilbert Arenas DIVE DEEP into Rockets’ outlook 🚀 + C-Webb on ‘RING CULTURE’ | First Take

do you feel like Boston should make a big move with Tatum sidelined big move as in for what trading getting rid of the the the roster whatever you think should happen there what do you think should happen in Boston i mean it’s not like they can make a trade that’s going to help them you know for next season because you know Tatum is out um so you think next season’s just a wash it’s a wash i mean it’s one of those things where do you get rid of the whole team blow it up because if you think you’re going to trade uh White and think you’re going to get something back that’s more impactful than him you’re going to be wrong right so this is one of those this is one of those times where if Jaylen Brown is supposed to be you know your Robin or your Batman he has to now step into the Superman role and everybody follow suits this is his chance to show everybody he’s a number one option what do you think Boston should do i don’t think they because we know with the roster issues that they’re most likely going to have to make moves just due to finances for me i don’t think they do anything i mean you have your best player that’s going to be out so this is an opportunity for all of these guys um specifically Jaylen Brown if you look at Boston even without Jason Tatum are they a better team than are they constructed roster-wise than Indiana wouldn’t you say right right what do you say constructed that same level okay dame Lillard if everybody if Porzingis and stuff is because remember Porzingis been down dame Lillard’s going to be out next year so Milwaukee is washed out we don’t know what New York Knicks is going to do right so I think with that roster they still can get to the playoffs and who knows what Jaylen Brown can turn into when they get to the playoffs that’s where I’m at with it my attitude is this you paying him $34 million for a reason the brother can play he’s a 20 plus point per game scorer he’s a Finals MVP he’s a champion um he’s been a number two option let’s find out whether he can be a legitimate number one option what’s wrong with that you know to me if Porzingis the real issue with them was Porzingis for example in terms of how he was performing he had this illness they couldn’t actually decipher exactly what it was you know why he couldn’t do anything so that compromised them to some degree but I found myself asking “What if Porzingis was healthy and Derek White and Drew Holiday and Jaylen Brown were still in your lineup?” Okay um could you make the playoffs yeah could you win a series yeah um maybe not more than that but let’s find out you you you you’ve invested in him for a reason and to me why not you I know you got new ownership pay $6.1 billion for the franchise i get that part you might want to you might want to minimize cost down the line so that might be the reason you want to get rid of but we’re talking basketball here pure basketball i say roll the dice take your chances let him show us what he’s got yeah i don’t think this is about Jaylen himself i think they know what they want to do with him i think it’s the rest of the roster right that the rest of your roster is very expensive and it seems like if you’re going to do something you want to offload these contracts okay and just say Jaylen we’re going to have a down year do your thing do your thing by the time you know uh Tatum comes back you guys are at that 2002 2003 Kobe Shack Shack level where we can’t tell who’s 1A and 1B let me jump in real quick because we’ve got some teams already making moves two of your former teams eay Odoka just got an extension much deserved obviously we know New York wanted to try to him welld deserved and then the Magic traded for Desmond Bane which are you more excited about right now actually both because if you look at the Eastern Conference I just we just talked about Dame Willard being out from Milwaukee we don’t Jason Tatum is out with with Boston so it’s good good opportunity for the Magic to creep in there and possibly have some better success in the playoffs um adding Desmond Baines with Paulo Benero houston Rockets though if they can make that move to get KD they’re putting themselves in championship potential and I think that move needs to be made by them if they could get KD there but I will be more excited about that because they’ll be playing le let’s understand something to truly appreciate Eay Udoka and what he has accomplished look at the Houston Rockets the year before he arrived right and then look at what they’ve been what they immediately transitioned into all right and then this year all right they get to the second round they lose to Golden State and what have you and we all know it’s because they don’t have that bonafide scorer if Jaylen Green was what we expected him to be instead of scoring in single digits in in in in five of the seven games Houston’s in the conference finals sure so I’m looking at it from that standpoint and I’m saying to myself listen listen I can’t underestimate them or at least the semi-finals rather i’m sorry i can’t underestimate them i I think that Eay Udok is one of the top five coaches in the game desmond Bane’s a shooter he averages 17.8 points a game he shot about 40% from three-point range we know what he can do and he we know he fulfills a need my issue with Orlando was damn four first round picks round picks are protected i want to ask Gil this question cuz I know Gil is a basketball survivor absolutely let’s say Houston doesn’t get Kevin Durant and keep it as constructed they need scoring do you think somebody like Cam Thomas can go in and fill that role and still elevate them to that level yes I think so like I’m sorry you wouldn’t they’re they’re a young Boston team that’s still trying to find out who they are right jaylen Jaylen Bryant I mean Jaylen Yeah jaylen Green is at that level where he’s not comfortable in his skin he’s still trying to find out what type of player he wants to be right um I don’t know if I make a move i don’t know who do I need to build this team around i know three players I wouldn’t trade okay i mean there’s a bunch but All right give me the three amen y green and you wouldn’t trade green i would I would trade green no I would I I listen the reason I won’t trade him is because he’s so raw i can develop raw i can I can put a system where you can take better shots right right now you’re still you’re only 22 years old you’re not mature in your development but I my structure under you know the coach i think they can get him i’m going to give him one or two more years to see what he can turn into i get you and the youth matters the rawness matters i’m not saying trade him cuz the brother can’t play he has no potential please of course what I’m saying is is that the development how long is it going to be number two developing him into being a more reliable fixture for you how much is that going to assist the pieces you have around him see when we talk about a KD we know that KD is an additive wherever you put them even with Jaylen Green’s development how much is that going to help the rest of the bodies around him for the Houston Rockets that would be my question and that’s the reason why I I would say I would I would I would move him for a more reliable bonafide number one option with with with Eay Udoka there and the other pieces that you have around yes I would do that no you’re talking about a veteran player who needs champions around him those those are kids so you’re going to get rid of one of the leader of the kids to bring in other kids got a leader but they’re all kids but I got other kids so he’s going to So he’s at a stage where these kids aren’t so you’re saying “I’m going to put this adult in there and say “Hey you guys got to get to his level.” Not possible they don’t have enough experience to get and match what Katie brings you will hope Katie it never work like that but he’s on a team with a he would be on a team with another champion than Fred Van Vleet and I think his leadership right Fred Fred Vanle Fred Van Vleet he’s a champion not a scrub he can play come on Gil and he’s a champion come on Gil come on now he’s a championship he can play first of all sometimes it’s are we saying so are we saying if Katie is on that team he doesn’t elevate them to a championship what friend the players still got to develop themselves senon Sangon still got to figure out he’s not Jokic you’re a different guy you’re not Joic right play your game and he doesn’t know his coach showed in the Golden Station it doesn’t occur to you that they have to step out of themselves to try to be something more than what they are because of what they don’t have because of that veteran that number one option that they don’t have i mean that might be a reason be orange if you’re orange be orange don’t try to be an apple and that’s what those guys are doing you’re going to try to be if Apple isn’t what it takes to win and you don’t have any apples around you’re going to try to be an apple yeah but you’re still an orange oh you can’t you’re an orange you’re an orange we got to leave it there the Hall of Famer Team Mac give it up team X so good seeing you and having you please come join us anytime we have a ring is a team accomplishment i don’t know where it started it’s just it’s a long conversation especially when it comes to like you know me individually I don’t know why it’s discussed so much in our sport you tell me you know Allan Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash you know you know our wasn’t unbelievable like oh they can’t be talked about or discussed with these guys is because this guy won one ring or won two rings or one like it’s just it’s just weird to me it’s like saying Pton Manning can’t be in the same room with Brady or Mahomes because he only has one ring barry Bonds never won a World Series you can’t sit here and tell me that he’s not the greatest baseball player to ever touch a bat all right welcome back to First Take live from the Javit Center in New York City we got another Hall of Famer with us this is a treat cuz I think it’s your first time on First Take at least when I’ve been here i think so chris Weber in the building c Web thank you so much for being with us we appreciate you thank you’all for having me all right so you just heard LeBron it’s a hot topic on our conversation we already discussed it earlier and I got into it a little bit but ring culture where are you on this i I think you I I think they’re different conversations i don’t think someone’s a scrub cuz they did not win a championship especially if you were a bus driver like if you were the guy responsible leading your team but you know it’s certain rooms that you know if if you don’t have the rings you’re not you know allowed in and what I mean by that is you shouldn’t be and so I think that’s the best part about sports is that anyone could lose like to act like you just win a ring means the NBA is that sweet or is that soft you know what I mean and so I I think that sometimes we put too much on rings but I do think rings count i I I would have to say that so my favorite players like a Barkley or Malone and others of course Malone’s one of the greatest players ever but if you do put a ring into that you know I I get the conversation yeah there’s a door but everyone doesn’t respect that door right so if you if you say “All right we’re going to take all the guys who made the Hall of Fame and then we separate them guys by rings.” No one is sitting at some of those tables cuz no one cares right some of your rings don’t matter because you wasn’t that guy right you don’t have a ring but you was that guy your peers would say “I’m sitting with him.” Yeah right your ring like you know what like with you you Rasheed Tim Duncan KG if if them two have rings Tim Duncan is going to say “Yo sit with me.” There’s rings he’s going to there’s ringless guys that he’s going to respect over guys who got a ring on somebody else’s back you know Gil pointed out son you were talking about this in the first hour and as I’ve had an opportunity to really absorb your points I’m going to concede that you and LeBron are right i get where you’re coming from i’m going to compartmentalize this rather than differ as players y’all know you out there you doing your thing etc said like “Yo I had to drive this bus did you see what I was playing with?” Like you pointed out ear what I had to work with you see what I’m saying i get that part what I’m saying is is that as a pundit as a journalist as somebody that chronicled the sport and stuff like that let’s understand that if you’re the audience out there you want to hear that from Cats after you finished the last thing you want is to have is to encounter a player in the throws of competition that’s giving you the impression it shouldn’t matter that shouldn’t define me now when it’s over that’s fine when you talk about the Hall of Fame that’s fine when your career is over and then we chronicle everything that you’ve accomplished all right and we’re writing your sports epitap and what have you that’s different than being in the midst of competition still having years to go and your attitude is “Well listen I just go out there and play but the championship shouldn’t be that important.” Because if you’re a fan you got to remember you’re emotionally invested and when you’re emotionally invested you want to look at a cat and you want to be like this they just as emotionally invested if not more 10 times more because you participating than we are and I think that’s where the challenge comes in in terms of narratives and how people define X Y and Z you want to chime in yeah i mean it’s let me just say this it’s painful not winning a championship right it’s painful and then in the culture we were in for me not to go to a team right that I that I was playing against and try to win one cuz I could have gone to San Antonio i could have gone to other teams and at the time it was I’d rather lose by myself than join the enemy because I thought that that’s the way it was when I saw it was Dominique and Bird and Isaiah you know but at the same time if I was in this culture best believe I go play with some people that I got a great relationship with and try to win one so so it is that balance but yeah we should you should put it all on the floor you should you should be crying if you don’t win that championship but at the end of the day you know we we know the players that we still would accept without that you still respect but but let’s talk about that because that’s interesting the ring chasing and now that happened so are you diminishing a player’s legacy if they’re jumping around at this point versus a player say a Giannis for example say he decides to stay he’s going to ride it out and he knows that uh that uh Dame’s not playing this year and that you know what I mean and he’s and he’s deciding to stay rather than to jump around to win a championship okay cuz that’s where it gets tricky when you’re talking about the greats no one ever factors in the city that they played in right when you when you’re talking about Kobe didn’t leave he’s not leaving California right right the Bulls they’re not leaving boston well everyone is coming there are we not factoring in the guys who are there calling for help right you’re you’re calling for help and when the guy comes there and helps you win why does that guy get destroyed right why does his legacy is destroyed you called him for help right that’s like Batman you put the Batman sign up there Batman shows up let me ask you he’s a hero cuz because when Dame went to Milwaukee I’m not gonna lie I was like Dame stay this is this is my feeling like old basketball stay in Portland because he not going to win a championship in Milwaukee and you gave up your whole legacy to go to Milwaukee and now if old boy gets traded but there were cats there were cats that thought that him and Giannis could oh no no no i believe you and if I’m him I believe I’m going there and I’m believing I could i played with guys i’ll be like “Yeah I believe we could.” Don’t get me wrong but when he left there I said “You’re leaving all of that in Portland for this one chance.” And Giannis may not stay so it’s the stakes and he’s I won’t say he’s ring chasing but I I will say he’s letting something go by giving that up i’ll throw this at both of y’all it’s just a question what are we to make it would be one thing if it’s people like myself and others who didn’t play on that level saying this i remember when Ant-Man made the mistake of saying quote “Man please I you know I think that today’s play I mean the only person back in the day that I would consider that talented was Michael Jordan.” And so Magic Johnson said I don’t listen to anybody that’s never won anything so what I’m saying is what are we to say that’s not me that’s not some other That’s not some other point there’s got to be outliers there has to be outliers that just weren’t in the right situation the right team that there’s other factors that you can’t control but I’m asking a five-time champion yeah it’s e it’s easier for him to say it because he’d walked into he got drafted to Okay you have the MVP of the league when you got drafted right i will hope you guys win five championships in eight years which has never been done right he’s the youngest player to have five rings there’s a reason you win a championship then you get the number one pick right james Worthy and he comes off the bench how good is that team no like you know what I mean so it’s easier for him what I’m saying it’s easier for him to talk i agree with you what I’m saying i agree with you what I’m saying however is this every champion has not been in the kind of situation Magic was in but almost all of them feel that way about people who haven’t won championships that would in any way denigrate them their attitude is wait a minute you haven’t done X Y and Z i’m asking what are we to think when we hear a Hall of Famer may maybe it’s not magic maybe it’s somebody else that has that criteria because one of the things I I religiously tell Molly this and everybody else on first take i don’t get my opinions just out of thin yeah I watch i study etc etc but you know how many Hall of Famers text me yo hold them to the same standard you did this to us you held us to this wait don’t let them off the hook so somebody might be a critical of a LeBron somebody might be critical of somebody else and it’s cats from old school 90s 80s etc who won championships that’s that’s trying to define the standard what do you say to that it’s no different than a championship is I’m just asking is running through the finish line okay right that doesn’t determine how fast you are as a person okay right it doesn’t it doesn’t say anything you just finished so you’re using the championship as the cake when the ch the championship is the cherry on top okay the championship is the end piece you’re you’re taking away the body of work yeah yeah and saying this is important which is why I said speak when over you also you got to speak when yeah you’re also taking away the nuance in the context so Magic is the man he came in you know sat in Kareem’s seat when Kareem got hurt dropped him off but at the same time he had a family a ownership family I’ve been with terrible owners I’ve been with owners where I said listen we can get this guy he called me and said trade him for nothing and the owner said no or you’re in the smallest tax bracket in the biggest you know you know a lot of times it’s moves around you you know we talk about Papovic and all that he’s done he does more than just coach you know and I think you got to take into account who the GM was who the president was and all that cuz like you say it’s going through the finish line and you have to have a solid team to go through that finish line if not you’re doing a lot of stuff you’re holding them accountable as well but I think at the end of the day what we’re getting at is it’s not a black and white conversation because it’s not tennis right you’re not out there by yourself you’re not playing by yourself and when you just look through history you know I went back looked at 92 who was who was considered a GOAT they had Magic right by 93 it was Jordan with three rings so obviously ring culture is not as important as you think because there was guys with 11 rings six rings that did more but we used our eye test [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]

NBA Hall of Famer Tracy McGrady, NBA legend Chris Webber, Stephen A. Smith and Gilbert Arenas join Molly Qerim on First Take to discuss storylines around the NBA.

0:00 Should the Celtics make a move with Jayson Tatum injured?
3:34 Rockets and Magic moves
6:05 Trade or keep Jalen Green?
8:57 LeBron James on “ring culture”
10:05 Chris Webber’s thoughts
12:09 Stephen A. gives a little
13:45 Idea of “joining the enemy”
16:16 What Magic Johnson said
18:02 Defining the standard

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