Garden Report: Celtics Trade Jrue Holiday to Trail Blazers for Anfernee Simons

Garden Report: Celtics Trade Jrue Holiday to Trail Blazers for Anfernee Simons

hard hat’s all about showing up to play hard doing what it takes to win if you want to cement legacy win another he’s your third center you don’t want to pump him up too much but it’s hard not to this is maybe the most I’ve ever agreed with you hey Brian Manning here trying to get ready to go live still at midnight Eastern no Dallas here and we have breaking news the Celtics make their first cost cutting move of the off season and as expected it’s Drew Holiday whose two-year run with the Celtics championship run comes to an end and he goes back to the team that rerouted him to Boston in 2023 and it looks like by the early reports he will play there so we put out a Drew Holiday trade video today Noah and the usual suspects Dallas Clippers threw in some other wacky Pistons trades i didn’t think for a second about Portland and here they are anthony Simons coming back two second round picks they don’t move off a pick to move off the holiday contract and they bring back an expiring deal a $27 million deal in Simons here out this is exactly what they wanted to do when we’ve heard all this reporting and rumblings of them not wanting to give up assets noah I I don’t think you could have gotten or imagined a better deal for Holiday moving out yeah before Before we get into the deal I want to say two things one this is why it’s impossible to predict trades because I don’t think I even heard the tra the Blazers name when it came to this player and this is just the way that it’s going to be i think any trade this summer we’re going to be completely blindsided by before you get to number two I have something to say about the Blazers because this has been a great relationship for Brad Stevens and Joe Cronin I believe is the uh Blazers GM another move between these two but we’ll get to that in a second second thing is we’re going to talk about the return we’re going to talk about whether or not it makes sense to keep Anthony Simons um you know on an expiring deal there’s a lot of things to discuss there but before we do that I just want to start with Drew Holidayiday’s two you know two years in Boston and just how consequential those two years have been i know we’re going to talk a little bit about it but I you know this they don’t win this championship without him they do not win 2024 without Drew Holiday and I think because fans and all of us we kind of knew this was coming i think he knew uh by most accounts that he’s going to get traded this summer like I would imagine or there was a a decent chance of it i wouldn’t be surprised if he were I don’t think he would be surprised to be traded but I think it kind of nullifies this feeling that like this is ultimately really sad that you have to let him go at this point because he’s still a great player i remember in the Magic series how they were talking all the time about how much harder it was to play those games when he was on the floor um so that’s the first thing that comes to mind and we’ll get into the details of this trade but truly like in two years he left his mark in so many ways and I’m working on a story on his offport impact this city was impacted by Drew and Lauren Holidayiday in way more ways than we know because he has done everything possible to do his work behind you know away from the cameras away from the spotlight um just truly wanting to help people help you know help underserved businesses like help everybody in Boston that needs help effectively so uh we’ll talk more about kind of the trade but I just want to start because I think that Drew Holiday has been a little bit underappreciated honestly through his time in here and it’s just kind of a casualty of where they’re at uh with the tax situation and the second apron but um ultimately like you could not have asked for more from when you acquired him two years ago yeah and let me apologize to the front office i did not think the extension was a good idea i wondered for a long time if this was going to be something that would hamstring them a little bit with the uh second apron stuff and all the tax stuff we’re talking about here three years 100 million we heard it a million times this off seasonason that was going to be tough to move and they did it and they got back a couple seconds here uh the second specifically are a 2030 from New York when the Celtics did not own a second and a 2031 uh that’s now in addition to their own from Portland here so two very distant second round picks the Celtics have traded a lot of second round picks over the years here evan Fornier and a couple other trades that sent salary dumps out the door not that having seconds is the most important thing ever they trade a second for Mike Mscala they still don’t have one in 2029 so they’re restocking them a little bit here which is nice but the real thing obviously $4 million saved on holiday for this year next year’s Holiday contract year off the books and then the crucial one the player option that was for like $37 million when Holiday was going to turn 37 here off the books as well uh for Simons who we’ll get to in a second here but I agree with you on Holiday critical player in all the smart discussion that goes on about the championship year i still say if they didn’t replace smart with a guy who does smart things at an even higher level if you were imagining a player to replace smart it would be Holiday and you can rattle off all the critical moments he had that year and how good he was that regular season then especially into the playoffs i don’t think they win a championship without Holiday that year certainly he was great against Indiana had his moments against Dallas you needed him to guard some of the tougher matchups earlier in the playoffs that year his ability to guard big men that first season is what I’ll always remember the Giannis and Embiides and all those guys and he was just a cool player to watch we don’t have John here but this is a guy John always dreamed of playing for the Celtics back to his New Orleans days so yeah I don’t think anyone here is going to understate how great Drew was and I always hated being the Drew guy you know i would talk about the contract i would talk about him getting a little bit older i would talk about his play diminishing a little bit this year and him dealing with some injuries and I always hated to do that because I like Drew i love his game i acknowledge everything he brought to this team but they were in a dicey position here with him getting into his mid30s him getting a little beat up physically this year i know you said I think on your podcast that you’re expecting him to have a big bounceback season this year i won’t rule that out after an Olympics run and the long playoff run maybe a longer offseason can get him back in position to succeed here but this was the time to move off Holiday and I think this was a good deal to do it yeah and it is second round pick so apologies for the error it would be awesome if they got back two first round picks um but I I think earlier in the offseason there were reports that the Celtics would have to part ways with draft picks to get off this deal and that never made sense to me i think I’ve probably refuted that like 50 times this offseason on our on our Garden Report podcast on my podcast anywhere anybody would listen to me uh and I think this shows you a that there’s value for this contract that obviously the Blazers value Drew whether they want to keep him which is kind of where it looks like it’s leaning or reroute him for value you know I don’t know exactly what their game plan is um but they gave up picks and they gave up a young prospect who isn’t perfect and certainly has his flaws and honestly I thought he was a little bit younger than he is he’s 26 simons yeah i thought if I if you had asked me an hour ago I would have said Simon’s just turned 24 you’re 27 calling a 26 year old no I’m just He’s not a young prospect he’s in the middle of his prime um so yeah he is who he is at this point i don’t think so um and I think in my head he’s still like I he’s I still have like a ceiling for him because I was excited about him a few years ago um so ultimately I think what is intriguing here is that he’s on an expiring yield it’s going to be a lot easier to trade in theory uh than what we thought Drew was going to be um and so that’s the that’s the first thing as you acquire two second picks and you could probably get more and you can probably save a little bit more money here right they save $40 million in luxury taxes ESPN’s Bobby Marks reported um and you know you can probably lose a little bit more um so that’s that’s the what we’re probably going to see here i don’t want to get too attached to Anthony Simons maybe they do keep him and they keep him for the gap year and they see if there’s something there i don’t know um but it’s also very much possible that they get more assets and save more money on this on this you know in this trade yeah I think that could go in either direction and it’s the same conversation we had with Holiday it’s the same conversation we’re having with Porzingis now and everybody else on the roster effectively there’s no rush to do anything with Simons here bring him to camp have him start the year have him play out the year potentially here and if it’s closer to the deadline or he’s not a great fit or your team’s just not succeeding here you can move that in another deal to dip as many as $7 million below what he’s making so you could bring back a guy making 20 million you could bring back two guys making 10 million at that point so we always knew that this was going to be a process where you’re making multiple moves to actually save money here and they save a little bit here still not enough to get into the second apron you’re about 15 over uh you’re still 25 over the tax or so here uh so we’ll see how much additional shedding they actually have to do here i think all eyes will be on Porzingis as this week continues and Sam Hower and some of the other names that we’ve mentioned here uh but Simons I would say just the player and I said this to you before we started doesn’t feel like a Celtic to me doesn’t feel like the kind of guy that fits on this team stylistically doesn’t seem like exactly what they’re looking for and that doesn’t mean he won’t play this year here he very well could and then a lot of the times though like we’ve said in this new CBA environment the way you’re going to save money is just to let a contract expire at the end of the year so if they can’t find great value for him he can hold on to him have him play out the year and 27 million comes off the books at the end of the season along with Porzingis’s 30 million so you now have 57 million expiring at the end of next season which could take you below the tax for that following summer so I will say this this does put them in a good position or starts to put them in a good position to actually be a taxpayer again this year hold on to some pieces try to compete which is a path that we’ve always favored though oh you’re muted you’re like this is probably the the first of several moves um for this Celtics team like I don’t think anybody thinks that this is going to be the last thing that we see they still have to shed i think there’s still $18 million over the second apron so it’s kind of hard to gauge how much you know how much cost savings was really accomplished here and whether or not they see a future for this guy in Boston um because if they’re going you know if this is one of two trades they need to save more money on this deal but if they have something much bigger in the works maybe you take a flyer on Simons and see if you want to keep him in Boston next year because right now you didn’t save that much as far as getting below the second apron which I think is still where they’re going to end up this year right they’re still 18 million above that but I have we have every reason to think there’s probably going to be one or two more big moves uh for rotational players and very likely to be in the next 48 hours because I I do think that the draft is a good benchmark for when a lot of this action is going to happen um so I like this trade for Boston because I like that they didn’t give up assets i like that they have another expiring contract now they have KP and Simons they gained draft picks um but it sucks honestly it sucks because Drew Holidayiday was the perfect Celtics player and I know we parted ways with him emotionally in many ways as soon as the season ended i even think when we had his exit interview you know he was asked “Do you want to stay here?” And I almost forgot at that point that there was a possibility for him to come back because it felt like such a sure thing that he was going to be traded this off seasonason um but Drew was awesome like he was really like it’s hard to put into words how great he was for this team so it’s just unfortunate when moves have to happen for financial reasons and it’s not something the Helix have experienced in a long time um and so it’s kind of a new thing and I think we were all prepared for it to happen and this is the first and there will probably be other painful ones but they’re going to try to win every trade right that was that’s always been the theme and I think I’m most amazed they they won this one win in terms of Portland versus Boston win in the sense that they got value for a player that probably was not going to be able to finish out his contract financially in Boston okay they got real value like I don’t like I said this earlier but I don’t think they’re g Everybody was talking about salary dumps right i don’t think you’re salary dumping if you’re gaining back a player that has value in two picks right like you are like maybe maybe you are depending on how you actually interpret that term because the motivation here is primarily financial um but the fact that they don’t have long-term fin you know payroll off of this this is a one-year contract effectively you know they could just keep him next year and have that as you know cap space i don’t know if they’ll have cap space but this is to me this was a better return than I expect for them to have i thought that they might have some sort of like long-term commitment with money they take on and it’s a little bit less or maybe they give up picks i don’t know but this to me this seems like as good as you were going to get considering the fact you’re going to be paying this guy what $35 million when he’s 38 is that is that where it ends up 37 37 so that’s the thing yeah it’s it’s a good trade from the Celtics perspective because I don’t think you’re going to be able to do much better than this i like it for Portland that doesn’t really matter for our purposes here but I do think for a team that’s trying to flip the switch from rebuilding to winning and started to do that at the end of last year that Holiday makes more sense for them than I considered again I didn’t even think about them as a potential holiday destination as I was going through all the different teams here but they had a surplus of guards you got Scoot Henderson and all the different guys that they’ve accumulated they had Denny Aia another ball handling big wing so uh Simon’s became relegated in some ways there and like you said had a strong start to his career some big games he’s definitely got some scoring punch uh that’s captivating and he puts up threes in droves and is a guy that’ll shoot 10 threes a game uh so he’s a shot creator he’s a guy that can play off the ball a little bit there’s definitely a role he could play on this team this year and if they are going to keep him around to at least start the season I I was starting to think more and more Noah about Pritchard starting next year and it’s a captivating storyline it definitely follows his breakout six-man year and all the things we saw him do last season the improvements he made and now you’re thinking all-star potential right but I in the back of my head as much as I thought he could slide into a bigger role I got a little worried about and it was in Portland right that one game he started last year where he didn’t play great he was out of rhythm he talked about it after the game i think you were there right or you know we talked about it after that starting wasn’t natural for him and maybe go into camp with that mindset and you know you’re going to start and you could change that if you’re him but if they’re able to start the year with Simons on the team and White goes into the year which I think is more likely here I actually think it could be a good thing to keep Pritchard in that bench role that he’s used to playing along some guy hopefully at least one player that he’s used to playing bench minutes with over the last couple years here that could be a really good thing for him does Simons fit super naturally into their starting lineup depending on what other moves they’re going to make here we’ll see but I like that they’re getting a guard that at least has a case to start here coming back that was something I did not imagine happening in a holiday trade i think we all start to resign ourselves to Pritchard starting next year right yeah and I still think Pritchard will start next year i don’t think uh I think yeah I I know that I didn’t make too much out of the fact that he struggled in the one game that he started in Portland against you know in front of his home crowd uh and I thought it was a little bit more of like a he was kind of poking fun at his himself when he said that after uh fouling almost fouling out early on he’s a big part of their future he’s on you know he’s he’s I think you know Pton six man of the year this past season i think they view another league for him um maybe maybe it doesn’t work out but I mean this this I think the mental hurdle of starting is not something that he’s not going to be able to overcome ultimately like he started half he started quarters he started his whole life until he got to the NBA um so I think in an ideal world like he is helping run your offense as a playmaker um and Simons again I don’t know if he’s going to stay or not adam Himllesbach reports that the Celtics like what he brings to the roster but they’re staying engaged on all trade fronts it’s kind of my understanding right now uh with his acquisition but I I I no part of me looks at this trade and says this is an opportunity to keep him in the you know starting position and Peyton Percher on the bench that’s not that’s not the sense that I get right now from how this has moved and you know Peyton Pchard could struggle next year right i have a lot of hope and faith that he’s going to take a lead but you a lot of times players in the position where they’re given a bigger role struggle when they’re able to now they’re the kind of the focus of opposing teams game plans obviously know Jason Tatum who knows who’s going to be around him so it’s possible he doesn’t stay that role all year but I think that’s going to be the expectation from him from the jump is to have a really massive role uh for this team offensively next season and and kind of to see where that goes and I think there’s a an open question the same way that we have a question about Jaylen Brown and what you know a number one option basketball will look like for him i think there’s a couple guys in the roster where there’s some flexibility around what that future could look like yeah and you mentioned it was back reporting that the Celtics are remaining engaged on all fronts which isn’t surprising and they still have some work to do here financially to make this thing work and I think that process is see what’s out there for Simons see what teams offer i’m sure they have some idea of that already but now that you actually have him on your team you can actually go out and shop him fully and see you know could you bring back a first for Simons in this draft even who knows i I would doubt that because I think Portland probably would have done that if that was the case but uh you can go out now and see what teams are willing to give up for a guy like that you know what’s so crazy to me the Magic who went out and traded for Desmond Bane in my mind before I connected them to Bane if they were going after some like medium tier guys to boost that offense and maybe I’m understating Darius Garland a little bit here but Darius Garland going to Orlando would not have been seen as like this massive blockbuster superst start sized addition uh probably similar to how people would have viewed Bane going to Orlando there was also the possibility that Simons could go to Orlando and so Simons going to Orlando would have been like this all right we found our shooter we found our scorer this guy this piece we were missing here so there’s at least some sense on a team like the Magic that this guy could be a helpful contributing piece for you does that mean you’re going to go get a first for him or a good player or anything worthwhile here not necessarily but I do think that there’s some possibility that you could get something back of value for Simons after making this trade here so uh we’ll see what the process ends up being for them i want to before we continue our conversation here shout out prize picks and right now the going to happen with Simons here but how do you feel about Simons as a player i’m not sure about him defensively and I think it’s really hard to have a player that’s going to be on the floor for you 35 minutes a night be a defensive liability and I will say I haven’t watched a ton of Anthony Simon’s film so I’m not going to say that what I think his capabilities are and when you’re on teams that don’t have a high standard of defense which I think the Blazers over his career have not been the best defensive team that sometimes diminishes your your abilities as well so that’s my biggest concern with him I think um but again he’s very talented and he’s averaged 19 points per game in each of the last three seasons i don’t have the full list but I don’t think there are that many players that fall in that category um obviously the Blazers didn’t view him as a part of their future because they you know dealt him and so that’s to me that’s a little bit of a a red flag that like a young team that’s trying to win in the coming years like did not see him they saw him as kind of as the piece that they’re willing to part ways with kind of similar to like the Jaylen Green trade where and I know those are two very different players but the Rockets clearly have a lot of young prospects and young pieces and they didn’t view Jaylen Green as one of those guys that’s going to help them at least if they have to give somebody up he was the first to go so I feel okay about him um but I like that he’s very talented and he’s a proven scorer and that he’s a great three-point shooter or at least a very solid three-point shooter because whether he fits in in Boston or elsewhere like there is clearly going to be a market for him and if he does stay with the Celtics you know he’s 26 years old so you’re losing what eight nine years of age um and it’s he’s somebody that’s going to still be in his prime when Tatum returns from injury so if there’s if some if this somehow works out and I right now I’m leaning against that I don’t actually don’t think that he’ll be a Celtic for very long but we’ll see you know things will become much more clear in the next 48 hours um I definitely I definitely think this it makes sense so I just pulled up uh the Ringer has a top 100 list players in the league i was curious whether he cracked their top 100 because I think I would have him as a borderline top 100 player he’s 87th on theirs just above Ty Een just above Payton Pritchard just above Paul George Aaron Ene Smith Buch this guy’s really good now is he a fit that’s the question does he play off White and T and Brown and some of the other guys who are going to be playing here comfortably i do think he’s a guy as great as he probably is off catch and shoot that handles the ball a little bit and uses his rhythm to get his and all that his assist to turnover ratio is really good probably better than I would have expected given his usage I’m not sure if two turnovers a game is great but 4.8 eight assists per game for a guy who didn’t always have the ball there in Portland especially with Scoot factoring in now and Shaden Sharp and some of the other guys that they’re working in that offense that’s a good number and then 19 points a game on 36 three-point shooting and he’s been higher than that at different points in his career he shoots such a high volume that you think a guy’s going to dip down a little bit when you’re shooting eight nine 10 threes a game it’s kind of the Tatum story too uh this guy can really shoot and there is a case that he’s the best shooter on the team immediately i’m sure Pritchard will have something to say about that uh and how certainly but in terms of creating your own shot shooting from distance taking 10 threes a game this guy can really shoot and he’s joining a team that wants to shoot a lot of threes so listen he’s got some flaws in his game he was an awkward fit in Portland and I think he pretty much joined that team as the guy who was like “All right go do everything because we’re rebuilding.” So I think it’s awkward for a guy to transition from that into a role in a team like Boston and again I think the focus is going to be trying to win next year but if they don’t get value from him this summer which they very well might I think that’s going to be their north star right noah actually getting stuff back for all these different guys not just trying to move out the money and dump and cut down to some smaller players here i don’t mind starting the year with a guy like this again it’s my same thought as on Porzingis is Porzingis perfect this year no does he have some flaws some things that are going to be issues in the season coming up probably but it’s 57 million between those two that’s just going to expire at the end of the year if you don’t move those guys and you just let them go at the end of the season you’re probably diving below the tax at that point so to just end up with a guy who’s a borderline starter here for you potentially and expires at the end of the year and achieve a lot of your financial goals just by doing that and you have the possibility of actually getting stuff back from him on top of this that’s what makes this trade so great for me and again I’m not the biggest Simons fan but he’s a real high quality NBA player and a young one at that that you got back for holiday again I don’t think any of us were expecting someone this good to be coming back no he’s definitely a better higher caliber player than I expected i did not expect a top a top 100 player uh by the Wranglers ranking so I think that’s the thing that’s encouraging about it whether or not you like his fit whether or not you’re the biggest believer and again he plays for the boards and Trailblazers i watch him play maybe six seven times a year so I’m not going to act like I’m the expert on him and I look forward to getting to know his game better and his strengths and weaknesses are you going to write a profile i don’t know that I’m going to write a pro profile yet let’s see how the next couple days here go um because ultimately I I do think that there are going to be a sequence of other moves uh between now and the end of the draft this is the test you posed i’m going to try to resist rander profile yeah and I feel pretty I feel pretty apt to resist it right now but I think the the biggest thing that I took away from this is like you said they now have two expiring deals and so whether they keep those two deals on the books and just let that money expire that’s going to mean that there’s there was a big trade with somebody else because they are going to shed more salary here so if you’re telling me right now Anthony Simons and Christophing are on the roster come October that means that to me they traded Jaylen or Derek probably one of those two guys i’m trying to think if I’m missing anybody right so to get to you know they’re still 18 million above the second apron and again it’s never been outwardly stated that is exactly the line that they’re going to reach this off seasonason but I think it’s been all but stated and and Whit Geck went on EI months ago and said you know no teams are going to stay in the second apron for for multiple years three out of four years is when other penalties kick into play so I don’t think that you’re going to see them in the second apron this year on you know on a year that’s in some ways a gap year uh with Tatum sideline so to me they still need to shed $18 million in salary if they can’t if they don’t do this with the expiring contract you are almost certainly going to see a trade that includes Jaylen Brown or Derek White so that’s that’s where I’m at right now and that’s why I’m curious what they do with this contract because if they keep him it significantly increases the chances that one of those two guys if not both but I think could probably be one of them uh is is the next announcement here um I still think it’s more likely than not that Christo gets traded um Drew Holiday and Kristoff both of their names have been floating around for a long time now i think that Drew was probably not blindsided that he was traded i think that there was an understanding when he signed that deal most likely so we’ll see kind of how that plays out but that’s that’s why I do think that they’ll probably trade Simons and or Porzingis because I still think it’s more likely than not that they hold on to Derek Wood and John Brown and that’s kind of where you’re at as far as saving money this this deal did not save you a whole lot right 4 million in actual savings and I know 40 million in the luxury tax but as far as that 22 million you needed to lose to get below the second apron you you made a little dent here yeah 4.7 million so you’re 25% of the way there effectively to the second apron line which isn’t a bad start uh I’m gonna see if I can pull up the Celtics financials here at this point but I think the reporting is they’ve saved above 40 million in tax here which you know off 250 200 250 million whatever that number was at one point uh not bad so yeah still don’t have an update on the cap sheet here but that’s the reporting right now is that it’s a big dent into that tax and a small dent into the second apron number now and I if we’re going to shift it to the rest of the roster like you mentioned what’s going to happen next here i think as we stack up the next moves for them in terms of who could go i know we feel a little differently about Porzingis simons is obviously in this conversation now too could he move in short order uh Sam Hower is definitely a guy to watch for this week as well especially with teams having exceptions and picks and there could be some draft movement there that maybe gets the Celtics some capital back for Hower you know maybe move up a couple spots in the draft for the team that’s taking them on that’s what I’ve imagined maybe um but all those guys are definitely worth watching i’m at the point now and the earlier report today that the Spurs are probably just going to draft number two build this thing slowly and even take number 14 potentially here and have a young roster around Victor Wanyama that being the team that I’ve looked at most in Jaylen conversations and again I wasn’t looking at Portland and Drew conversations so I could be surprised by someone coming out of nowhere and having some interest in Jaylen that makes me think Jaylen’s going to be here among a bunch of other reasons again anything could happen there but I think I became as convinced as I’ve been since we started having these conversations that Jaylen’s going to be on the team next year as the Houston move happened and San Antonio seems like they’re not going after stars like I think they’d be worthwhile to you know wait on Giannis and see what’s going on there so I don’t think the Spurs are going to make a move for Jaylen i I just don’t see a suitor out there for Jaylen kind of blow the Celtics away which is what we’ve talked about them needing to have happen to move Jaylen and now we’ve kicked around White you’ve mentioned him more and more know as a guy that could actually move here if the Celtics can’t get stuff back for a guy like Holiday now that Holiday’s moved I feel pretty good about White being here yeah I I think you know I I felt like one of them was going to go this summer probably not both uh so holiday going increases my chances certainly of Derek somebody asked me I think when I was podcasting the other day what percent chance i think I said like 60% chance that it’ll be Drew 40% chance that it’ll be Derek something in that ballpark um and and I certainly feel like it’s more likely but I’m going to be honest I don’t feel confident about anything we talked about the Jail packages i think if Jayen gets traded it’ll be to a team that we haven’t even thought about that has not been linked to him whatsoever this is just I’ve seen this one too many times there’s just no way to foresee these things like I think that the fact that it hasn’t been outwardly refuted that Jaylen Brown is being shopped around and being you know exploring offers I I think there’s a lot a lot to that and it indicates that a trade is a realistic option this summer even though even if it’s not the most likely option I think it’s it wouldn’t be shocking if he got traded um as as crazy as that sounds to say just thinking about where things were a year ago but I I don’t think it’s even worth going through the returns and thinking about like where he’s where he would land because I think we’d be bl we’re going to be blindsided with wherever he goes and it’s going to end up being like again like I said with Portland nobody saw him coming here and honestly I only was looking at championship contenders for Drew Holiday because I don’t I still don’t really understand why the Blazers made this move or why they want Drew Holiday right now um they think that they’re going to be a champ about it i love this move for Portland yeah i don’t really get it like is it they’re trying to win yeah you think they can win now not a championship but I’ve always been a guy that says it’s not does this move help me win the championship or don’t do it you can take steps you can benefit from this guy helping out Scoot Henderson of Shaden Sharp some of the other young players here the roster is definitely incomplete and they have more work to do but even a funky injured mismatched roster a year ago still maybe it was because they were beating up on teams that were tanking or just going in different directions down the stretch got to 36 and 46 last year and were in that playin race pretty late into the year and over the last couple games they still had a chance to sneak in there out west they were better than people remembered last year we’ll see what they do with Aon some of the other guys they have the 11th pick in this draft which is solid so I like where they’re going and you’ve said it a million times though drew’s still good he still has something left to offer this isn’t a team where he’ll have to do the primary creation which is what he would have had to do in Dallas probably with the Clippers too so there’s less pressure on him here he basically gets to do what he did in Boston on this team and let the young guys do their thing he can load manage he can rest he can do everything he needs to do out there and this is a sneaky expensive Blazers roster when you look at eight and some of the other contracts they have but again I’m sure they’re going to make some more moves here coming forward so if you don’t have a big choice over who you’re going to pick up to push your team forward into the future and give you some momentum here why not a guy like Drew Holiday and again you’ve said it now the last two teams to picked them up won championships i’m not saying Portland’s about to win the championship i was a little bit bummed about this destination for him because I still think that’s that’s the kind of player that he is that can be the missing piece on a championship team and there were a number of teams that I felt like he could be that piece for and obviously the return wasn’t there and the Celtics got a better return from Portland but I don’t love this fit for him um as a player who at this point in his career I’m sure wants to continue competing for championships and he’s not going to do that in Portland and I don’t know that it’s worth paying him that much money if you’re not gonna be a contender i mean listen they they saw value in it he’s a great un indisputable locker room guy everybody like everybody loves Drew Holiday everybody that’s ever played with him everybody that’s ever worked with him so he would there would be enormous value in any locker room in this league you could bring him to the worst team in the league and there would be value there but is is is it worth paying 37 million for a 38-year-old Drew Holiday if you’re not a contender i I don’t really see it as much as other other potential spots for him so the Blazers made the move clearly they see the value clearly they did not believe in Anthony Simons as a long-term part of their core they were willing to give up picks for it they were willing to take on long-term money uh that’s probably a little bit over his value and I’m sure a lot of that is reputational i’m sure a lot of that is uh just a really profound respect for how he can improve culture and defense and all those things and maybe it’ll pay off and even if it’s after his time like these things can pay off but I I just this move is a little bit perplexing to me and I would have liked to see for his sake him end up elsewhere and I I don’t quite I can’t quite wrap my mind around why the Blazers made this decision so um there’s value but at this price it’s a little bit perplexing to me well I guess I’d think of it as if they were going out in free agency and they had the money to spend they’d be interested in signing Holiday to three years 100 million at this point and again this isn’t a free agent destination necessarily this isn’t a team that has a ton of money flexibility at the moment and it’s a team that had a surplus of guards and we’re probably looking to move on from Simons for some time especially ahead of his contract year here so I think it’s good value returning a guy like Holiday for a guy you would probably want to move on from anyway and the other interesting layer here is they pulled a pick from the Celtics to send Holiday to Boston so they already brought back a first to send Holiday out they already brought back a Warriors first and I forget who they drafted with that that year that the Celtics sent two first for Holiday they brought back Rob that hasn’t really worked and then Brogden didn’t bring them back actually Brogden brought them back Denny right in a bigger deal so that worked out great so we’re now talking about them getting a 29 Celtics Ferris which who knows where the Celtics are going to be in 2029 uh bringing Holiday back to actually help them out now denny coming in and still having that flyer on Rob which again I’m not feeling great about right now but gets one more chance to try to put things together here this season so in this big circle of holiday trades that’s gone on over the last two three years here I feel well the Celtics got the championship out of it right but the Blazers have gotten quite a bit out of this whole experience here too and again I feel like for this team Drew has something left to offer maybe the 37y old year is going to be a little bit of a wash for them but Aiden comes off the books this year jeremy Grant who knows what’s going to happen there dieball there’s a couple guys that are in flux there for sure but and let me just be clear i This is not I don’t this is not me thinking that there he doesn’t have value left i think Drew is gonna have an awesome year next year i think that he’s gonna have a better year than he had this past year because he’s going to be more well rested and I think that he dealt with a lot coming off of the finals in the Olympics i just think he just makes more sense on a on a team that right now their biggest challenge is how do how do I make that winning play that’s going to move us to the next round like that is where his marginal value is the highest in those moments that game-winning steel like he’s yes he’s a culture guy but I think you can get culture guys for cheaper um and so again we’re not a Blazers podcast we don’t have to worry about it too much but like I I really thought that he he would have been a great fit and with the Lakers with the Clippers with the Mavericks with any of these teams that are going into the year saying you know we want to be a top three seed we want to contend to win it all maybe there’s more value to be one of the only vets in a locker room instead of playing alongside a bunch of guys that have been there before and that’s kind of what the oversight is that I’m not really seeing but I again like I I think that’s his biggest strength like we’ve said a million times the two teams that traded for him have won a championship right after and the streak is going to break and I thought that we could have gone into the season wondering if the streak could persist because there were some potential landing spots for him where I think he could have been a missing piece for a winning team that has a short window just like he does potentially yeah I definitely had Orlando on my radar too and then that went out the window with Bane uh what Magic sent would have sent you back was not as good as this what the Clippers would have sent you back was certainly not as good as this dallas some weird stuff happened there today with a Gafford extension that still allowed him to be traded and some reports that they want to hold on to Washington and Gaffford so you know I was texting with some people down in Dallas today and was like “What’s this like is there still something here that could happen?” And you know was we started to anticipate this thing happening here over the you know week leading up to the draft i was still thinking Dallas like I think that’s a team that needed a point guard and had to hold down things without Irving and had some interest according to the reports and all that and I think even Fischer put out tonight that Dallas still had some interest leading up to this trade here and so that one to me like would that have been a lot for Dallas to give up there would have been a lot of cap gymnastics that went into that for the Mavs so that all was momentum against a Maverick’s trade but the Celtics would have been taken back potentially daniel Gaffford PJ Washington another young player maybe the Celtics have to give up a pick in a trade like that so that’s probably why it wasn’t as preferred of a move as this Portland one here the Sacramento one to me was very strange like they were willing to maybe move Malik Monk and guy like Devin Carter for holiday that was hard for me to imagine for a team that really wasn’t even in the playoff mix last year was not pointing in that direction at least the Blazers are pointing up right so do you think this was the best deal the Celtics could have feasibly gotten from yeah because it’s the move they made so I think if that’s the that’s the move they made I really think that it was probably the best one i have a lot of faith in Brad Stevens and kind of his ability to na navigate the situations and it you know in in a world where Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum both play out this contract there was no way that Drew Holiday was going to be playing alongside them it might still not be possible i w I hope and wish that it it is possible because I’d love to see those two guys finish out their their primes their careers these contracts in Boston but it was not going to happen and so I think I to me like I have this this is a better return than I expected i didn’t think they were going to get a top 100 player i didn’t think they were going to necessarily get a positive asset um and the fact that it’s expiring money is great because that’s really tradable it’s what makes Christo Porzinga’s contract more tradable than it otherwise would have been and if not maybe he becomes a really good player like that’s the that’s the that’s the other question here is like what is his ceiling how much does this team believe in him um again we’ve said this before but like I don’t if I had to guess right now he’s not going to be in Boston next year um but maybe he surprises us and this gets even more exciting yeah I’ll be interested to see that especially in the near term here could happen soon before like the week even ends that they make another move here with Simon so I definitely could go either direction right now I would probably lean toward him at least starting the year on the Celtics and Noah just abandoned me thank you Noah but I can hold it down here if people got any questions about the offseason we’ll go for a couple more minutes here but I think we’ve pretty much said what we have to say about this trade and if you are just joining us it is Anthony Simons coming back to Boston with two second round picks according to Jake Fischer that is a 2030 Knicks second rounder when the Celtics did not have a second rounder in their arsenal and a 2031 from Portland which joins Boston’s own 2031 in that year they were pretty short on second so they get some value back here for that um bring back Simons who may or may not be part of this team’s future and Holiday the three-year hundred million dollar deal in full goes out to Portland so that’s the trade we’ll see what happens with Porzingis this week we’ll see what happens with Sam Hower Jaylen Brown again I think he’s going to be here to start next year as these moves and some of the other stuff that’s gone around the year gone on around the league takes shape here this to me makes me more confident that Derek White’s going to be here next season and I said it earlier in the show Noah and I’ll say it again to me that they have now that they have so much expiring money this year makes me feel better about them starting the year as a taxpayer like I don’t think they’re going to tear this team down to get below that tax line before the season begins if you have to do that during the year closer to the trade deadline you’ll probably have the flexibility to do that with some of these expirings here so this is another positive from this trade to me is now you have even more expiring money on this team this year so you don’t have to act as urgently to get off some of these deals so they’re in a pretty good place financially right now there’s still some more work to do there’s still probably another trade or two to come in the near term here but this is a great start for them it really is yeah I like it and I’m increasingly intrigued about how the next couple days are going to go and we do have some super chats here so I want to make sure we don’t miss them um one here from Dirk i tweeted at Danis said we should get Drew Carter on an interview in the offseason only person that like to tweet Drew Carter drew we will get you on uh you’ve had Drew on a couple times right Bobby we’ve had Drew on at least two times we might need to get him to break down some of these offseason moves um it’s a good suggestion love Drew anthony but I went to school with Drew famously could Simons be a better version of Hower from Missoula um a more expensive version and nothing really similar to his players play style right uh no I this is a guy that dribbles the ball and spots up off the dribble this isn’t a big catch and shoot stand in the corner kind of guy and he’s short right he’s like 6’3 6’4 so yeah drastically different players i don’t even think this guy’s the defender that Hower is so they’re going to need to find a Hower replacement right now where you at on Hower we should talk about him i think that Hower’s been buried a little prematurely like he’s on he’s on a bad contract i think fans got low on him because he hasn’t he didn’t have the best season but he’s I I see a world where he stays in Boston next year and he’s not like he’s How much are you really going to save on him you know if you’re willing if you’re able to 80 million in tax if you just dump him is it still 80 million does that change with the 40 million maybe but it’s a lot i Yeah so maybe they trade Hower and get you know move up in the in the draft a little bit and you’re not taking a player back in now you’re really actually just reducing your payroll by 10 million um maybe a little less than 10 million because you’re paying a little bit more for that higher draft pick but like in that in that sense like maybe you make that move but I think there’s a very good chance that he’s on the roster next year like he’s not like I would I think there’s a much better chance get to get straighter than Hower this off season um but the savings are a question mark like what what his market value is whether teams are going to be scared off by the back injury but there are very few guys in the NBA that can shoot like he can and that’s going to entice any team that looked at their offense this year and said “We did not have enough shooting.” You know Sam is going to be a call you you instantly make yeah there’s two sides to that $10 million deal it’s the easiest to move on the roster but it’s also the most valuable in terms of well aside from Pritchard who I haven’t even considered trading just because of how great that contract is so I would not yeah so I don’t know i think Hower’s probably going to be gone just because of how big of a bite it takes into the tax there can probably find a comparable level player to play that role not to say that they’re going to find another Hower because that is going to be extremely difficult but I think they’ll be suitors for Hower i think that’s a guy that would be wildly popular on the trade market now how much he actually end up getting back there tough to say but I would predict he won’t be on the roster next year but there will be a real loss and Holiday is a real loss here too cross just increased bobby now that you said that um I I get things right do you think the Celtics could get a good quality big man in the second round or late first round with those picks um in 2030 those guys are in middle school oh I think Oh are you talking I don’t know which picks we’re talking about here okay wait what i I gotta read it again big Man the second round i’m gonna I’m gonna assume they’re talking about this year 28 and 32 yeah yeah yeah yeah i think I misread it um no no i mean it’s possible that they they’re talking about the acquire this trade but I think certainly and that’s probably where where they’re going to go if there’s still uncertainty around whether or not Al Horford is going to come back Luke Bernett it’s even regardless like they’re probably going to want some more bigs in the rotation so Ryan Pogbren I know is a name that a lot of people have talked about i like him as a prospect like you know a guy who can kind of grow into his grow into his role and kind of be a be a good backup big for Boston but it’s so hard to predict predict for me like what the growth trajectory is going to look like for some of these players so I don’t know is there anything big you’re excited about in the draft Bobby i’m not doing back flips over Kell Brener but I do like him i like some of the film I’ve watched on him he’s obviously the player I think both of us have dove in most on i don’t love some of the other options there as much and Danny Wolf is a guy I haven’t looked a ton at but it feels like he’ll probably be gone by then sorber probably gone by then so I think you’re talking about Cal Burner you’re talking about Maxim Rayod who’s probably available at 32 i would guess just given his flaws that he’s a second round pick cal Brer could probably go as high as 22 since he’s worked out for Atlanta they are going to lose Clint Capella and so I think there’s a natural fit there for him to play behind on Kong Woo and become their next big up in their development track there so if he’s gonna make it past Atlanta I feel better about him going to Boston and that’s who I would take at 28 right now um but we’ll see because I do think there’s probably some teams that like him maybe even would move up into the 20s to try to get him cuz feels like especially with the year he just had that his stock’s rising going through the workout circuit right now out on the West Coast a little bit a week or two ago and making a round to all these different teams so I feel the momentum growing for him um one of the guys we talked to yesterday Nathan Gubble who does a great job on the draft says there’s a lot of smoke around Cal Brener in the Celtics right now could be even fire even so I thought that was interesting so yeah I definitely think that’s a guy to watch and I’m not as high on Rayod i’d probably pass on him and I’d ideally like to see Luke back next year but they do have to at least be prepared Noah for him to depart if he gets a crazy offer we shall see and last super chat here do you think Brad will draft Laneir i don’t even know if I’m pronouncing his last name right um any thoughts on this i honestly don’t know a lot about this prospect um Laneir no I haven’t looked into him too much either oh is that Chazir oh yeah chaz Laneir is a guy they’ve worked out a four-year college player really good shooter he’s on the short side like I think he’s 62 63 but he was one of the best shooters in college last year uh he’s an excellent player at moving around screens all that kind of stuff so he’d be pretty good offball for them um they’re not a team as we’ve talked about know a million times that runs a bunch of offball screens and has these shooters racing all over the place and doing Duncan Robinson stuff like Miami used to do with him so maybe he’s not a perfect fit in that sense because that’s the kind of style he plays uh I’d probably go Kobe Bray over him the Kentucky shooter who’s a little taller even had a little bit better shooting stats I believe but yeah Laneir’s been in he’s worked out for them he’s definitely going to be there at 32 so if you do move on from Hower here I think that’s a guy in the mix to come in as a shooter and you know I think it’s gonna be interesting ahead of draft night though i know you don’t always draft for need but like if they think Cornett’s going to be gone you’re probably moving a little more aggressively to draft a Calbrer if you know how’s going to be gone you’re probably moving to draft a shooter with one of those two picks and uh if you’re trying to take a long play maybe you draft an overseas guy that’s stashed or is going to take a little bit longer to come around here so generally I’m curious what your preference is in terms of like the style of a player that they’re going to be targeting on Wednesday no like what do you think is their biggest need i think it’s going to just be the best available player at this point they’re in such a weird situation where they’re not drafting a guy to be you know to be necessarily anything in specific for this year’s roster as they contend for a championship and this is exactly what they’re missing so I think it’s going to be their best available player um probably with a little bit of a bend towards bigs because there is so much uncertainty but they position for them you know I the only bigs under contract next year are Kada and Zaber Tilman right now and and Christo Porzingis but TBDM whether that you are so ready to get rid of Porzingis you don’t even remember he’s under contract I think I think there’s a an equally good chance that L Cornet will be on the roster next year as there will be Porzingis so there’s an outstanding question around all three of their bigs that were part of the rotation this year so that’s where that’s where my my doubt comes from it’s not that I don’t think there’s a chance he’ll be on the roster it’s that I think there’s a good chance that Luke or Al will also be so all three of those guys in my mind have if I had to picture who will be there for opening night equal chances for all three of those guys um I really don’t know the one it seems more likely based on what I currently understand i think there’s Yeah I think there’s a need for big regardless of who stays i think they need a guy in the developmental tract especially if like it looked late in the year they don’t have a ton of confidence in Kate at the moment i thought that could have been their developmental guy but he lost a lot of favor down the stretch so I don’t think that’s necessarily a guy that makes you feel good about the future there long term and he’s a little older anyway too he’s not like 20 so there’s definitely room for another guy to play in Maine to develop to do all the things we’ve seen Luke and some other bigs do here so I would definitely take a big with one of those two picks in terms of Porzingis my biggest stance know it with him has been I don’t think they’re going to get a ton back for him so just start the year with him he’s still good he could recoup value he could start the year great and then you’re in a much better position to move him potentially closer to the deadline that could go the other way you’re implying though that you’re probably going to trade Derrick or Jaylen in that case because they have to get below the second apron you think they’re going to start the year above the second apron i think you can get there with Hower and a smaller move um JD makes like two so that like slashes a million off that you can like wiggle below that line probably with some other moves here 18 without trading first stops Jaylen or Derek so howers 10 10 but you’re going to get something back most likely no if you move in or exception well like you said maybe a draft pick there yeah it’d be tough right i mean you could start the year so the thing with the second apron right is you could be like a million or two above it make a move and then if you’re below it on the other side you can still do all the other things that the second apron prevents you from doing so yeah if they’re a million or two or five even above that line I still think they’re within striking distance of getting below it in the season but obviously you’d prefer to start the season below that line so I mean you’ve you’ve said it all along though you got to get something back and who would you even name as a Porzingis suitor right now it’s hard to even think of a team that would want him i think it’s a team that is looking at the East right now let’s just talk the East you know with three three of the top teams all in a weird kind of gap year situation with just a star player missing the season with an Achilles rupture right if you’re the Hawks if you’re the Pistons or if you’re The Pistons are interesting yeah if you’re one of these teams that just wants to be a little bit better and it’s a lowrisk it’s an expiring deal like you don’t have to extend him you can just trade for him and see if you know can he can his 20 points per game on high efficiency which is what he’s been over the past two seasons help you win five or six more you know more games during the season like that that’s probably what the trademark is is those middling teams that just want to be a little bit better um so I do think there will be a trade value there will be a trade market for him it’s probably not going to be contenders because I think there’s some question around his availability it’s probably not going to be 20 teams that are buying for him but I think there’s a few where he could be a good fit um and the East is pretty wide open right now everybody feels that way so is he might be just a a risk that you’re willing to take detroit’s been known to look for a four spacer at big obviously they have some Miles Turner interest that’s been reported so if they can’t get Turner I definitely look at them as a team that could potentially be interested in Porzingis now what would they give up fonteo isn’t expiring you’re probably going to have to give up one of Hower Stewart i’d love to get Isaiah Stewart to Boston does this get you there yeah would that be a trade you think would make sense for both sides you’re muted oh I have to think about it um not sure about Isaiah Stewart he’s younger long-term option i’ve always viewed him for some reason or another as a long-term potential center for this team he can shoot can roll his rim protection last year went through the roof he was never known as a rim protector and then last year just started blocking shots left and right i know Detroit loves him too i think that would be a tough guy for them to give up unless they just really love Porzingis so haven’t heard that connection anyone else clippers feels a little redundant but they could do like the holiday package we talked about which just throwing a bunch of contracts back boston’s way were expiring new banks i mean this thing this is not an exciting trade right here so you know when I start to think about stuff like this that’s what makes me want to start the year with Porzingis so I don’t know we got a Porzingis video coming at some point this week where I kicked around some of these trades probably could not find the one that’s actually going to happen here we did a holiday one today that did not identify Portland so that’s it we got our first Celtics trade of the off season celtics acquire Anthony Simons two second round picks and send Drew Holiday to the Trailblazers are we gonna see another move before the draft here Noah i think so i think we’re going to see another move i don’t know if it’ll involve Simons or if it’ll involve another rotation player but uh Sham’s already reported that Celtics are currently still shopping around several players so I imagine something else will happen before the draft um but the big news today regardless of the return is that I think the the thing that we were all expecting to happen this off seasonason happened drew Holiday ends his career as his career as a Celtic two-year tenure uh pretty perfect two-year tenure i can’t imagine a two-year tenure being this successful honestly bringing him in the championship being so critical in the 2024 playoff run coming up so big in the finals those first two games I thought he was a finals MVP contender after those first two games um and just the offport stuff I think is the thing that people didn’t really ne necessarily know a lot about because he did everything behind the scenes but really a pleasure to cover a pleasure to have on the Celtics and um they ultimately they signed him to a massive contract that I think few expected him that he would finish out in Boston and he doesn’t um and they get back some good returns so I think it’s a a win-win here he was part of that USA thing last summer too all the Celtics out there and that to me this back court was awesome and we only got to see two years of it holiday was hurt for a lot this year but White and Holiday I saw someone ranking back courts in the NBA and they had them like eighth or something and I would struggle to not overrate those two in a ranking like that like I think they’re as good as anyone when it comes to what they bring to the table and how they enhance a team and those two were playing USA minutes together in the Olympics uh for a lot of that run so that goes to show as much as anything how valuable those were those two were together and same skill sets two of the best defenders at that position in the league playmakers yeah those guys were drivers engines on that championship run White and Holiday but Holiday head out to Portland i’ll be interested to see what he can do with that team out there i have some high hopes for how he could contribute to them but they have a pretty incomplete roster as well celtics still have a lot of work to do here on the cap front i’ll write a piece on clsdmedia.com about where they’re at right now financially and where they might still need to go uh and we will be live anytime something happens here so turn on the notifications no surprise no and I were ready to go at 11 o’clock when this thing happened uh I know a lot of people were asleep including John and Jimmy maybe we’ll get their takes tomorrow at the draft uh but yeah big news tonight holiday finally moving after a lot of anticipation and reports here subscribe Sonus Media Celtics all access for all our coverage as the offseason gets rolling here this is just day one after the final was already a big Celtics move so uh another day tomorrow in anticipation leading up to the draft wednesday night 8:00 is the first round celtics have picks 28 and 32 still for now did not pick up any picks for this year’s draft in this trade here so that’s it uh we are back probably with something tomorrow I imagine we’ll see what that is so again subscribe thank you noah will read her trade piece which is already out already out and I’ll have a Blazers reporter Sean Hiken on my podcast tomorrow so we can get a better sense of who is um if you’re curious about who it is acquired we’ll have a little bit of a deeper dive on him uh tomorrow and you got Boston podcast so subscribe to that channel as well oh real quick i was going to say this so this is now the holiday trade banton trade between these two banton’s done great in Portland they were an old holiday trade that sent a holiday to Boston am I forgetting any here it’s been a lot of blazer Celtics trades three is a lot in itself i might be forgetting one so these two teams have been active helpful for each other all that so good relationship for Brad here it came in handy again so that’s it for us here tonight check out senusmedia.com Celticsblog.com for Noah’s work there and like she mentioned going live tomorrow and you got Boston with Sean Hiken who’s great on the Blazers so looking forward to that and it’s Caner i don’t know if that was a Portland trade all right that’s it for us here we will talk to you tomorrow no one’s sneaking a vegan brownie by me i’ll tell you that okay you know what Don we’re going to do it you have to feel that way too Bobby i have to feel that way let’s fight all over and and make Luke your first center bobby we gave you Luke hour earlier we are not going to end this on a damn conversation about Luke

The Garden Report’s Bobby Manning and Noa Dalzell react to breaking news: the Boston Celtics have traded Jrue Holiday to the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for Anfernee Simons and two second-round picks. The panel discusses why Brad Stevens made the move, what Simons brings to Boston, and how this impacts the Celtics’ title window moving forward.

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