Empire of the Suns: What drafting Khaman Maluach and trading for Mark Williams means for Phoenix

Empire of the Suns: What drafting Khaman Maluach and trading for Mark Williams means for Phoenix

suns fans you know what time it is in the PHX
empire of the Suns phoenix Suns empire of the Suns
empire of the Suns hello there and welcome to the Empire of the Suns podcast i’m Kellen joined as always by Kevin Zimmerman man Kevin what’s up man i like this
kevin say something kevin we’re joined by Luke Leinsky and Mitch Verald is here we’re doing live radio while we intro in what is going to be our podcast episode this is called multitasking this is called being efficient with your work time everyone okay back to the live radio go ahead it’s going to be amazing to listen back to
speaking of being efficient with your work time somebody help me with the math here okay
you get five minutes per pick we are two almost two and a half hours into the draft they’ve made 17 picks so what’s going on here time doesn’t exist Luke that’s what happened
i guess not
we have to account for what the commercials we have to account for the uh the pageantry that is the draft and Adam Silver
taking his sweet time to walk up to the st that’s like an extra 30 minutes on top of it right
good point well let’s get caught up on the picks since Malwatch especially since Kellen is back now so again I’ll run through these kellen since you’re just freshly back jump in if there’s any of these players in particular you want to talk about okay sure uh Cedric Coward at number 11 goes to Memphis noah Sen goes to Chicago at 12 derek Queen goes to the Pelicans at 13 carter Bryant to San Antonio at 14
of course
of course and of course this too thomas Sorber to to Oklahoma City
the smart playmaking guy no way
no just follow Oklahoma City
uh Yang Hansen to Portland
didn’t think we were going to hear his name called today like today was 40 on some boards yeah
16th Yan Behringer to Minnesota it’s Minnesota from Detroit via the Knicks but I think ultimately Minnesota
makes sense
and then Walter Clayton Jr goes to Utah who just uh moved up to 18 so Walter Clayton Jr is a member of the Utah
ahead of Yakonis too interesting
yeah really really like Utah’s draft so far ace Bailey Walter Clayton Jr but yeah the fall right now is Casper Yakuchonis out of Illinois he was someone who we were really talking about a lot as a potential selection for the Suns at 10 he was someone who during the middle of the season was like in the top five of some boards so he’s taking quite the tumble right now could land in a better situation because of that that does tend to pan out well for some guys along the way
um let’s uh I’ll go to you first here Kevin i know you guys have talked about this a lot on the Empire of the Suns podcast which this may or may not be right now
it is it is you need to lock in
okay which we’re currently doing um how deep do you consider this part of this draft and maybe this part is is wrapping up right now but the part that the Suns were in in the middle of the draft
i think the let’s say ninth pick through where we’re at right now 18 is pretty even with the the talon and guys who can contribute and Waller Clayton kind of jump i mean if he didn’t make a run to the national championship I don’t know if he’d be here I guess but I think he showed a lot there um but yeah I think it’s pretty much there’s a tier now that’s going to be pretty even through 20 to 35 maybe of guys where there’s the Rashier Flemings the the people we talked about like Danny Wolf’s falling too by the way um
so I I think this is really the guts of where there could be some real steals yeah
Mitch anybody out there that you look at that you’re like “Wow I can’t believe this guy is still out there.” I I am a I’m I’m not going to say I’m surprised that Newell is still out there but that was a guy talk about the Gambo five he was in there um he’s the last remaining one that’s still available but also just a player that’s like could be potentially a steal here at some point and he’s not even really listed as the best available that’s Yakonis like you said
yeah we’ve mentioned Yakonis already as far as just looking at the rest of the big board that ESPN has Liam McNeely the guard out of Yukon Jace Richardson who we all poke fun at but is still a very talented guard and could very easily still go somewhere here in this latter part of the first round i like you mentioning the members of the Gambo five because I do think that is a fair gauge right like if if a team that is picking at 10th overall is considering a guy to be taken in that spot then we can assume like just between the four of us that it’s fair to say that Newell is either falling or he’s just not seen as highly in the eyes of some other teams like Walter Clayton Jr for example a lot of the mocks were either end of the first round beginning of the second round and here he is going what is this 17 18 so clearly the Utah Jazz had seen something from Walter Clayton Jr that they really really liked him in comparison to other players of his caliber at his position because if the experts and the teams are this far separated from one another then clearly there’s just a difference of opinion there
luke can I reenter the conversation back to Mark Williams for our podcast episode please i really appreciate that thank you and hopefully what hopefully what I’m about to say has inspired different conversations that you guys have had over the last like 45 minutes or so i’m confused i’m confused by the moves that they’ve made not the move that they made to draft to be clear because come on Malawatch falling into your lap at number 10 is the type of scenario you hope for in a draft like this that is top seven top eight and then a drop so to get that guy there makes sense it makes sense to draft him there it makes sense to trade for Mark Williams maybe giving up too much for a guy that couldn’t pass a physical to go play center for a contender that’s a little bit concerning a guy that you’re about to pay a whole lot of money because you just gave up two first round picks for him albeit picks in the 20s that makes sense what doesn’t make sense is doing this together now I know there are a lot of Suns fans listening that say we need a center now like get Mark Williams now develop Kamadan Mali watch here for a couple of years what do you need to do like right now though that’s really my question with this type of move I don’t understand the motivation it’s not a win now move to be clear but to have Mark Williams for the next couple of years while Malawatch develops eventually they’re two younger guys like Mark Williams isn’t even like he’s 24 25 26 somewhere in that range right now I think
he’s not in a situation where he’s going to be gone in like 5 years or whatever so you guys going to play these guys together do they see Malawatch as like a stretch four down the line with his shooting potential is there like Evan Mobley Jordan stuff there that they can do with him i just have more questions for this move and I really don’t like the value that you got on trading for Williams specifically so they did great with number 10 to be clear they did awesome but what they did outside of that I’m just confused and perplexed by
can I Can I ask you a question and I’m I’m This is probably breaking a rule of radio because I don’t know the answer and and maybe you don’t either those moves happen so simultaneously yeah
do you think they were surprised i mean they were probably working on the Mark Williams trade and all of a sudden here it is and Malwatch is on the board and you’re you’ve got like 30 seconds left on the clock or whatever
yeah they must be so infatuated with Williams and what he could provide they’re actually pretty similar players like when you look at Malawatch’s at least physical comparisons like how long he is and how tall he is it is Mark Williams in a lot of ways i think that they were obviously just in love with the idea of trading for Mark Williams to the point where Malawatch was on the board but it’s like okay great take him and go from there but it’s not the situation where you should trade for Williams and then not take a center you need to take Malawatch on the board there no matter what else you have lined up it’s the trade for Williams where it’s like okay I know you you guys love this guy and even over the concerns you feel like his medicals are great you’re going to pay him a lot of money there’s another element of this trade that’s confusing vasil Mitch is the guy going back in the trade that was according to Jake Fischer he’s the guy’s contractor you’re declining to duck under the second apron even further now you’re just taking more money back so now you got to open up money elsewhere to get under the second apron and this is the second time Luke in a week where they have made a trade that’s going to require more trades when they made the Houston trade it was okay we have Jaylen Green Dylan Brooks so now we have to trade at least two of Bradley Beal Royce O’Neal and Grayson Allen now it’s center it’s like okay now you have four centers so what are you going to do with Nick Richards what are you going to do with Oso Wiggodaro what are you going to do to get under the second apron with the 6 to8 million more dollars that you have to get rid of right now
kevin this is your podcast you You get to respond now mark Williams making 6.3 million this coming season and then is going to be a restricted free agent so you have to pay him and extend him off his rookie deal now
you can do it this summer yeah
you can do it or you gave up two first late first round picks to have a rental
do you want to sign him to an extension right now with the medical concerns or do you want to wait a year you could get him cheaper right
right yeah i mean that’s the thing you have to weigh i I would want to see his medicals before I answer that question Kellen so yeah I mean to to get on your more skeptical side there
is your podcast always this contentious cuz I feel like I listen and it’s not
are we being listen
yeah come on
you’re misreading the vibe go on
i’ve got this draft cap so I want to play when you’re done go ahead
no I appreciate the the pushing back on this being the greatest thing um because yeah I mean his contract situation is a thing now immediately and like I get it if he’s a stop gap but why are we giving up we just did this we just did this with Nick Richards and gave up what three second round picks for a stop gap center who turned out he he’s out of the what is he now you got to trade him and find him a new like so there’s a lot of questions and I guess I’ll reserve judgment for what do you do with Nick Richards how do you figure out what OSO is or do you trade these guys and get pieces back do they have even high enough value nick Richards probably tanked his value oso I don’t know what his value would be on the trade market so yeah this just adds more questions but like we entered today already having a lot of questions about this roster so I’m just curious now
yeah it does i mean it legitimately does raise a lot of questions mitch do you have any additional questions before I play this Nolan Trayor draft capsule specific to that I guess if you’re to take Kellen’s approach and you were to compartmentalize these two deals it’s they used three first round picks and Vasile Mitch to get two centers which
I guess on that level it doesn’t sound as exciting as it did maybe an hour ago and we’re like “Wow they got at the same time
right?” And we were trying to separate the two but to Kell’s point I like the way that he approached it of if this is what the Suns have done as their significant day of the off season they gave away three first round picks and the contract of Meeich which is like 8 million or whatever for the final year of Mark Williams you would anticipate to then extend him and a center that you expect to be a big part of your team this year and the next three years i do want to add Maluatch what some of the things that people love about him beyond the measurables that are similar to Mark Williams are he took 16 threes he made four that’s a really small sample size but there’s something there if you say can you play the four can you have two bigs and then the other part of that on the other side of the ball is he moved around really well can hang on the perimeter for being seven feet tall and is not like the hey Rudy Gobear is going to get played off the court in the fourth quarter of the playoffs like he has that type of potential where people think he can hang um on the perimeter deep in games um in clutch games in the playoffs
and one more thing I want to add here I know we’re getting late Luke but we’re we’re out on a podcast now we’re not even at this point man we’re totally fine um
we don’t know how good Mark Williams is is he a top 10 center in the league i I don’t think so but we ran into this trap with Nick Richards before where we had a certain level of skills we assumed we were getting and we took a guy from the Charlotte Hornets ecosystem and so now you are doing it again and does Mark Williams have the potential to be on an alldefense team absolutely is he a very good defensive big right now i’d lean more towards good than great based on the ecosystem he’s coming from based on all the sort of the intangible stuff he still has to learn in a winning environment because all he’s been doing is losing his games losing a lot of games his entire career so yeah skeptical is is the word for me and it’s hard to say that word it’s frustrating to use that word Luke because they hit a home run at number 10 but it’s just the other at the end of the day sorry this is about again going back to the front office and the coaching staff and them selling like we can develop players we can turn guys from bad teams into good strong centers defensive anchors and so like that’s the big question can they do that with both of these guys i guess Kellen um because this may be used for it is I’m speaking this into existence confirmed it yeah
how many hours of radio have you done today
uh I think we’re up to like fiveish now i got a nice little break there because of you buddy appreciate that
look at that teamwork right there
got to compose my thoughts in a mature way
well I want to ask you this about Mark Williams and maybe this is a simple question but you seem concerned about the addition are you concerned more because of inconsistency in play or are you more concerned just because you don’t know if he’s gonna be healthy
all the above yeah I think it’s all the above i think it’s more with the injury and more with cuz like think about how badly the Lakers needed a center and how like not the West was wide open by any means but after Oklahoma City like that other team that was going to peak in like it could have been anyone and it could have been them as well if they would have added a center that really could have helped them and that’s who Mark Williams was supposed to be but the physical and just they got scared off so bad that they declined the deal and then they signed Alex Len
wow alex Len reference on the show tonight that’s
Yeah and and the price as well like you wonder if if two pit two first rounders was too much but the thing I do like about this trade to be clear is that 2029 firstrounder is almost certainly going to be in the 20s so you’re not giving up some unprotected first or some first has a really good chance to be a lottery pick like you give up the 29th pick and then another pick in the 20s i just think that specific like package could have been used for someone else like that doesn’t have these physical concerns or doesn’t have these concerns about his like long-term potential that you’re about to pay when you have to duck under with money like there’s a lot of circumstantial stuff within his profile that makes me a bit hesitant uh of the move right now and makes me question it and again I’m going to repeat this every time I’m like questioning this move i love taking Malawatch at 10 i think it’s a great move i think the Suns knocked it out of the park there i think the move right next to it is the one that’s really puzzling
kevin same question for you and then Mitch I have an existential question for you so just be ready for that
all right i just have to remove my headsp space for a second um yeah i I guess I’m actually if I’m going to be a negative person in this double acquisition of a center scenario I think I’m lower on Maluatch just producing right away than maybe you are Kellen um so like I kind of see the okay it makes sense you get your starter right now and you have time to develop him in in a good way and not put too much pressure on him because like look the production was 8.6 points 6.6 six rebounds 1.3 blocks and he only played 21.3 minutes per game um so it’s like okay same as Carter Bryant like why was he not playing that much was it conditioning was it just he’s a young guy on a really good team it’s probably that right um but I I do think he is a little more developmental than people think yeah um he has all the natural talents he has not played basketball since he was like 5 years old and that’s the biggest thing with him now and I think them having a starting center makes sense still in the context of drafting Malawatch even just because of that and I think he can watch he can learn and again it goes back to the coaching staff that’s not assembled yet i don’t think um teaching and coaching and getting guys who have not been in these winning situations or in the NBA situation um up to speed and playing the right way let’s reset the picks from uh from 16 on uh in case you’re just joining us yang Hansen to the Portland Trailblazers the center out of China yan Behringer to the Minnesota Timberwolves walter Clayton Jr to Utah uh Nolan Trayor to Brooklyn who has like 97 picks in this draft somehow and then Kaspar
apparently are gonna use all of them
yeah apparently and then Yak Jonas just went to the Miami Heat at number 20 so right now Utah is on the clock
10 more picks five minutes each so we’ll be out of here in like three more hours right how the math works
u Mitch this I wanted to ask you this um I think everybody is excited about the Malwatch pick at 10 it felt like coming into tonight this is their last chance to get a potential however you want to gauge it star player all-star caliber whatever guy with major upside it felt like this is their last chance to do it for a while because again all the trades that we’re talking about the other moves are more like got to move Beal you got to shed salary somewhere i mean you could feasibly bring in a guy through free agency if you can move Beal but it it felt like this was kind of their last chance that we know of to go out there and add a player with major upside do you feel like they did that
it’s like I guess the example I would use is on a dark cloudy stormy day just that’s what the Phoenix Suns off season is felt like what it’s supposed to be where it’s remove this remove this remove this tear down studs start over and yet here comes this little rainbow coming through where Kaman Malawatch miraculously falls to the Suns with the pick that they got back that was theirs from the Houston Rockets by giving away one of those pieces that got Suns fans excited when he got here and now it’s been a a messy divorce uh for better or worse at least from the fan base perspective but for this rainbow to peer out of this dark and cloudy off season has been pro has been the real boost that the Suns fan base has been looking for because I don’t think there was a lot of optimism about this offseason going in and now there’s at least this one small piece to hold on to for the next several months uh I mean heck even during summer league we’ve got we’ve actually got summer league to look forward to in the next couple of weeks as well
kellen we were we were talking about this you were here but you weren’t in the studio of just you know you go out there and you’re finally adding players instead of just talking about who you’re going to get rid of and yes we’re all still talking about getting rid of Beiel but so much towards the end of the season was get rid of the uh the coach are you going to move on from the GM are you going to move on from KD now they’re finally adding some pieces so similar question to what I just asked Mitch when is their next opportunity to add an upside piece are we are we optimistic at all that they’ll be able to get into a position where they can do that in free agency Or is this are we talking like years down the line
yeah I think that’s again like going to 29 and trading the 2029 first now they like don’t have any first round picks they can trade anymore that’s the other dynamic of including 2029 in this it’s it’s moving other pieces on the roster right now but what kind of impact player can you get for Grayson Allen or Royce O’Neal or Dylan Brooks or if Jaylen Green becomes available or Bradley Beal it’s probably not someone really that impactful so like this was their big shot to really make an impact the Durant return and then what they were going to do on draft night so that’s where we’re at right now with them there is one more parallel I wanted to mention with number 10 in this whole situation with Malawatch and Williams you remember when Jaylen Smith got picked number 10 overall five years ago deandre Aton existed and we were like wait a minute this is a guy that like is a tweener sure but he’s probably going to play the five in the league and then we later learned that the Suns were actually trying to develop him him excuse me into this Pascalakum type where he plays a lot of four he plays a little bit of five they tried that it went horribly wrong and then Jaylen Smith is in the NBA now playing the five i’m not saying that’s what they’re doing with Malawatch but again some of the thought here long term if you’re looking at this as two guys who are going to be a part of your team for the next 5 to seven years would be them playing together unless Mark Williams is only playing 24 minutes a game and each of these guys are splitting time like that like it’s just one of those things again just from a sheer value perspective with how little value to your question the Suns have where the utilization of it was going to be really important for the next week or so let me ask you before we hit the break um because you brought up that draft i said this to Gambo when we first got in here after the pick was made that when Malwatch was slipping at 8 and then at nine and it’s like okay is Toronto going to take him are they going to have visa issues to be able to get him to to to play enough games is he going to slip to 10 it did have Tyrese Hallebertton vibes from 5 years ago i don’t think Malawatch is going to be anywhere near as good of a player as Hallebertton but I just probably more by nature of their positions and what they’re going to be asked to do he’s not going to be like that star power sort of guy but did you get those vibes i mean when he’s dropping you’re sitting there at 10 and you have a guy potentially slipping to you right there kell I’m going to go to Kell oh I I was zoning out because Yeah I was zoning out hey can I throw a conspiracy theory out we love conspiracy theories here
mark Williams as I mentioned is on an expiring deal
um he will be a restricted free agent
could you flip him at the trade deadline even
how many guys on this current season
c can you trade him like six months out
yeah you can trade him in six months but like is his value going to be better or worse than what you just gave up are you willing to take some cost at that point
i mean he might get hurt before
I’m going to go I’m going to go super far back and when they acquired Isaiah Thomas from the Sacramento Kings and they had two point guards on the roster and they got a third there was a very obvious reason and that was because they got him on a really good deal and they could flip him they did not flip him and get a lot of good in return but they did that for a very good reason and this is a situation where like every single player on this roster still other than Devin Booker should be on the trading block like we should hear the same noise noise noise that we heard this last season all summer about every single player except Devin Booker like that’s what should be happening and I’m just throwing that out there about maybe Mark Williams is that obviously down the road before the trade deadline but just gives you a starting caliber player that maybe the Lakers will be like “Oh yeah we do want you sorry your your back’s fine.” Like I don’t know
we don’t want it to be the inverse we don’t want Malawatch to be that guy right like Mark Williams comes in and he’s pretty good and like he’s he’s solid and you’re feeling good about paying him like he’s playing he’s healthy and you’re like oh now well now we could trade Malawatch for like a piece that’s in his late 20s no
do not do that keep this guy rely on the upside like the ceiling for him is crazy like it’s exactly the type of talent they needed it’s a home run that they got him they need to keep him
it’s not technically a brand new regime because it’s from within higher from a a year ago two years ago but is this where we start to see to your theory the breakdown of players that are no longer wanted on this roster right like do we potentially and maybe this is too much of a stretch but is this now a real removal of Oso Igadaro a guy that was drafted a year ago and maybe on the surface looks a little obsolete when you add two centers within a span of basically a minute of each other like yes they have the G-League system but he’s only going to be under contract for another year plus if that whereas you’ve now invested three first round picks in two centers you could probably make a case that it might be days numbered for OSO if he can’t fight his way out of the now thicker competition yeah I mean this this goes back to Kell’s original point of you are making moves that require additional moves and that Yeah I mean it doesn’t feel like there’s any sort of resolution not that we expected like total resolution on draft night but it’s just like okay you made a move that probably sets you up where you have to make another move and I don’t know does Oso get attached if they find a way to move Beal is that something i mean I don’t really want that to happen but is that an option
luke can I say one thing here
yes
thank you so much for listening to the Empire of the Suns podcast we’ll be back in like two to three days for agency preview gregory is going to talk after this kevin we got
Tomorrow’s crazy second round picks maybe there’s some trades tomorrow to talk about as well but this has been the Empire of the Suns podcast thank you so much for listening goodbye

Kellan Olson and Kevin Zimmerman are joined by Mitch Vareldzis and Luke Lapinski to discuss the Phoenix Suns drafting Khaman Maluach and trading for Mark Williams on the Empire of the Suns podcast.

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