Is the Bucks Path to a Top 4 Seed Suddenly Clearer and What to Expect at the Draft with Frank Madden

Is the Bucks Path to a Top 4 Seed Suddenly Clearer and What to Expect at the Draft with Frank Madden

trade season is upon us are the Milwaukee Bucks next do they have anything cooking in advance of the draft we dig into it next on Locked on Bucks you are Locked on Bucks your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast part of the Locked On podcast network your team every day welcome in to Locked On Bucks i’m Justin Garcia joined by Frank Madden we thank you for making this your first listen of the day each and every day and we are now here the day of round one of the NBA draft and we have already seen quite a bit of change throughout the league frank um one of the things you and I were talking about before we started recording and Camille and I mentioned it last week or earlier this week on the show the um some of the the stuff that you you see tossed around and mentioning the dunked on mockoff season where they had the Bucks reacquiring Drew Holiday we have since seen Drew Holiday traded to the Portland Trailblazers and one of two moves that the Boston Celtics have made now uh shedding off both Holiday and Chris Daps Porzingis but you know you’re looking around at the Eastern Conference and granted the big caveat here is okay can you keep basically most of the group together or are there any surface level upgrades that you can make but all of a sudden we we go from Bucks might be a a six seed a playin tournament team to okay if things break right for them could they be a top four seed once again yeah I mean it’s uh I think we were talking about right here before we got on you know with I mean Boston we knew obviously Boston was going to take a step back this coming season because of the Tatum injury and obviously ever since Jaylen Brown signed his massive contract everybody’s been assuming that there would be you know they would have to pay the piper in terms of the impact of not it’s not people talk about the second apron but like it’s not just the second apron but it’s it’s really the tax and how punitive the tax is now with the repeater and everything like it is just like astronomically expensive to retain a team with you know as many high paid guys as the Celtics had and so you know to see them have to basically punt two of those guys and I will say this like I think Anthony Simons is an interesting guy he’s still relatively young um I thought the Drew part of that trade the the kind of the Drew part of the transactions getting two second rounders and Simons for Drew especially given his contract I thought was actually really good business by the Celtics um not necessarily one that’s going to help to win more games next year or in the future just given Simons i think he’s an expiring contract as well so like you’re going to have to if he plays really well you’re going to have to figure out kind of what you do with his contract but with Porzingis the fact that he’s got a very a pretty team a pretty friendly deal granted he’s got obviously an injury history um and he’ll need to be extended um but you know him basically be traded for what George Niang in a second I think you know that was much more of just a a salary shed move um yeah it’s just it’s just kind of eye opening right just looking around to kind of what the tax is doing to um to these teams right like your your window is like two three years before you just get obliterated by you know these massive tax bills and you know even the Boston Celtics the second most valuable team in the NBA according to recent transactions you know obviously had decided like yeah we’re we’re not paying four or $500 million for our roster next year um and that plus obviously you know I haven’t been on since the finals but you know the Hallebertton injury to Indiana right like you know absent injuries i think you would have come into this off season saying “Well certainly Boston’s going to be there near the top indiana of course like
New York
maybe they’ll finally be a great regular season team even though they haven’t been that before.” Um New York yeah even with the coaching turnover right um but New York should
and even before the even before the Desmond Bane trade I think you could rationally look at and say “Well the Magic kind of had a year from hell with injuries they’ll be healthier they’re going to be in that mix too in front of the Bucks.” Yeah and Cleveland of course right cleveland being um the team that had the best record in the conference and you know flamed out amidst some bad luck and injuries obviously in in their matchup with the Pacers but yeah I mean I think I would have probably said you know Cleveland Boston maybe Indiana gets like becomes a great regular season team and then New York maybe fourth and then Orlando i think um you know as you said like even with Fron and Paulo missing a lot of time like as long as Suggs was there they seemed to just keep cranking out wins winning games and then when Suggs got hurt kind of the wheels came off for for their season um but that five I think you could have very credibly said especially a Bucks team without Dame barring some massive change this summer that those five teams you would have I would have said yeah I think those teams are going to be ahead of the Bucks especially you know with again we can talk about Doc I it’s to be honest like the doc discussion and I think two things can be true I think Doc can be kind of a mediocre coach who’s not really elevating the Bucks much beyond where they But I think he can also be a guy that like you know again if he’s mediocre that means there’s he’s not like he’s the worst coach in the league and anybody that you hire is immediately going to unlock some lex level of this team right i mean look at the recent history of the Bucks with coaches like you know at some point like your roster and your situation like you have to kind of look in the mirror obviously a bit so um but you know absent some magical thing happening there where you know a new coach comes in and unlocks some different style of play which obviously would also have to be kind of partnered with some roster turnover things like that so um so yeah I mean I think those five teams would have been there but now with Boston losing Tatum trading away you know two of their top four or five guys you know leg legitimate all-star players starters on their championship team um I have no idea what to expect of Boston i’m fascinated to see how good the Celtics are next year i don’t think the Celtics are going to be bad um you know I think the infrastructure is still there but like certainly this is going to be a major test of that infrastructure um you know how much of like you know HGH can they pump into Alford’s body if they resign him um because he’s I guess the starting center or Frank Cornet or whatever uh sorry I always say Frank Cornet um
well they might need Frank too if
Exactly um but yeah and then Indiana I mean uh 82 games as good as CJ McConnell is like I don’t know what they they must I I assume they’re going to have to spend some money to fortify their guard depth unless they’re just going to say we’ll just roll with Nemhard and McConnell as their starting guards and just kind of figure it out but um but yeah so I mean it’s just kind of I don’t know feels like it’s a little bit of like last last team standing here with kind of Cleveland New York and I guess Orlando now are sort of the three teams that I would feel best about and then the Bucks are just sort of one of the wildcard teams in this sort of jumble of teams that are kind of trying to make the case for being maybe you know one of those top four seeds and obviously Atlanta made a good case today with adding Porzingis they’re getting Jaylen Johnson back could this finally be the year where the Hawks you know rekindle some of the magic they had four years ago against the Bucks um well not so much against the Bucks but against the P the the Sixers and um I forget who they beat in the first round but uh but yeah so just I don’t know yeah the East is just fascinating and I think
Knicks right
yeah Knicks knicks are the third i think the you know Cavs Knicks
who they beat in the first round the Knicks
oh sorry sorry sorry yeah oh that’s right yeah f Trey Young of course at the Garden um but uh but yeah so I think I I guess those would be my three teams the Knicks don’t have a coach yet so uh we’ll see uh you know when they’re done trying to get an interview with every last uh head coach in the in the NBA currently um but yeah I it’s I mean this is again I think if you’re if you’re looking at through the lens of things that make it more likely that obviously Giannis is content to just keep going and I know that I’d say most Bucks fans have sort of like locked in the idea that Giannis you know is going to be around for at least the start of the regular season and and whatever um but I I don’t know i mean
look I I’ll never attempt to put myself in Giannis’s shoes and assume that he’s just perpetually happy here um so I think if good things happen for the team over the summer that will make me feel better and it’ll make me feel better about Giannis wanting to stay so uh but I think in general like the kind of chaos in the east certainly if you’re Giannis and even if you have an inkling of maybe thinking you would be better served being elsewhere you’re certainly not wanting to move out of the east right now that’s for sure and obviously I think given the fact that he would prefer to make it work in Milwaukee we know that’s always the case um this is certainly a set of circumstances that you know if you know Giannis I’m sure he’s feeling like okay like if we can do well this summer then you know I I’ll bet on myself come fall there’s some other interesting things about the Indiana Pacers and how that could impact the Bucks and other teams here in this off season and um as we mentioned as this show comes out it is day one of the NBA draft the Bucks are not scheduled to pick today but is there any possibility that could change we’ll get into that coming up next on Lockdown Bucks this next segment of Lockdown Bucks is brought to you by Open Phone if you’re running a business you know that every miss call is money left on the table think about the last time you had an urgent need maybe for a plumber or another service provider if you called someone and they didn’t answer you probably didn’t wait you moved on to the next name on the list so that’s why you need Open Phone they are the number one business phone system built to streamline and scale your customer communications all from an app on your phone or computer they let you manage business calls and texts from a single app they have a shared inbox feature that can be a gamecher allowing your team to jump into any conversation instantly without missing a beat and their AI agent handles after hours calls answers common 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away number like we were going to keep the band together because as we both said I think the windows are three years realistically now so let’s keep that group and we can figure it out later but if this prompts the Pacers to say you know what we’re probably going to have a bit of a gap year next year 30 million for Miles Turner didn’t have a great finals has some of those similar types of play sets or skill sets it’s Brook Lopez maybe we just walk away and move on to something else and regroup for two years from now if that happens somebody else signs him which we didn’t anticipate which takes even more money away from teams to be able to spend and that’s where for the Bucks you know names like Gary Trent Jr and and especially in that case Bobby Portoris become interesting because I do wonder what the market is for a guy like Bobby Portoris and that there’s certainly value there and I think he has proven himself to be very durable and even last year I don’t think we faced quite as many of the questions on the defensive side of the floor he you can make a strong case he’s underpaid for the the value and productivity he gives you i just I don’t know what the team is and where the offer is that’s going to be more than the non- taxpayer for him yeah i mean if he’s underpaid it’s by the small bit of daylight between what he’s making what he would make next year which is 13 point something and the non- tax mid-level which is like 14.1 I think if I remember correctly so so I think he’s like pretty pretty fairly paid as we’ve said on the podcast before you know contracts tend to sort of gravitate towards the exception numbers so you know the majority of deals are going to either be either minimums things close to the taxpayer midle or things close to the non-tax mid-level that’s where things kind of tend to to bunch um and it certainly don’t they don’t bunch at numbers slightly over that so the idea that you know Bow would get 15 million per year starting salary just doesn’t make a lot of sense because there’s only a handful of teams that even have cap space so you know are the Brooklyn Nets or Detroit Pistons going to you know like the Pistons like they would have to rearrange stuff to make him their only offseason like signing or you know something like that like it just doesn’t really seem very plausible that that he would be the guy that really any team would target in that respect um you know some of the uh Warriors um podcasters Samus Fondiari uh has been I’d say half joking half seriously talking about going after Bobby in a sign and trade um over the last week or two um so we’ve heard the Warriors kind of been thrown around as a potential Brook Lopez suitor as well um so yeah I mean those are the sort of teams but they’re not teams that just can like willy-nilly throw out like here’s you know four years like $60 million max you know mid-level contracts um so we’ll see and I I mean the the first question is just obviously like you know the the option decision and you know not surprisingly Pacson opted into his $9.4 $4 million option um which you know seemed like kind of a no-brainer um and if for the Bucks but I mean Justin if you’re if you can get a guy who put up you know 43 and
12
average 43 as a starter that’s a bargain $9 million send this guy send send that YouTube highlight reel around uh John Horse start just like messaging your GM friends um about that one but um so that one was not not surprising the Bobby one certainly is is much more interesting and debatable as to whether or not he’ll he’ll opt in or not but as is usually the case you know your agent canvases the market to make sure there’s a landing place for you or at least teams are interested right like you’re not necessarily going to be the very first place but you want to have some sense of a your best case scenario is that the team that you’re with you can negotiate some sort of extension right he’s been extension eligible so it’s not like there’s been some reason why he he couldn’t have extended before before you know today or next week or whatever um so obviously now you know it became a matter of probably them trying to figure out from Bobby’s side you know is there what are the other options that they can use even if he wants to stay that he they can use as as leverage um because if you’re the Bucks on some level like him opting in like maybe your preferred option right like especially with all the uncertainty around the team you know I think he makes a lot of sense on a team constructed around Giannis who you want floor stretching bigs within giannis I think also defensively complements him pretty well you know just given what Giannis can do defensively um so yeah I mean I think on him honestly him not opting in would not be a bad outcome i think if you’re the Bucks like if you could you know certainly you could see them doing the tactic of saying “Hey we’ll give you another year or two if you take a lower number.” But again is Bobby willing to do that i think from everything we’ve seen and heard he thinks he’s you know been underpaid he thinks he deserves a bigger number than that 13 and change that he’s making this coming season but you know again like okay like he’s not sort of the level of player that typically gets the big overpay as a thank you right like you know it’s one thing if you give Kobe the max contract when he’s wearing down um but you know with guys who are you know those high quality role players that’s where you really get burned if you decide to be generous and give them you know a bunch of years at at dollars that the market really wouldn’t justify so um so yeah I agree i think Bobb’s like the most um probably the most interesting guy um in in some ways although I would say I think Brooke is actually probably the guy I’m most interested in because I think Brooke is most likely to have viable offers from other teams at a number that the Bucks would probably like
not want to Yeah prefer not to pay him right like if if Brooke can get you know 10 to 12 million elsewhere um I I don’t know that the Bucks would would want to match that just because of what it would mean for bringing back some of their other younger guys and staying under the tax which again I think is probably a safe bet that the Bucks preference is to stay under the tax and you know they don’t have to do that going into the season obviously the the tax is is dependent on what you where you are at the end of the season um so you could always make a move later um you know you could always sort of if things aren’t going your way do a tax dump move later or something like that or you know what I’ve mentioned as well is if you if you get to the end of the summer and you know you’re a few million dollars over you know kind of the ripc court option is you could also stretch Pat Conetson which would save $6 million this coming season which I’m sure they would not I would rather not do that in part just because that expiring contract also
has some usefulness in terms of trades but um but yeah I think I think it’s going to be you know an interesting few days here even though
I don’t have I don’t really have a a strong opinion about what they’re going to do in the draft um we can talk about kind of our expectations there but obviously they have
limited flexibility given they only have the 47th pick in the draft yeah the uh the draft is the next segue here and you mentioned just a second round pick midway through the draft but we’ve seen more and more teams stockpile first round picks so is there a chance or possibility to get into the first round and also speaking of draft picks the the most valuable one that 2031 for the Bucks what is the offer in which you would put that on the table we’ll get Frank’s thoughts on that coming up next well there’s nothing like stepping into your own outdoor space and feeling like you’ve escaped to a personal oasis if you’re wanting to update your patio this season Wayfair has made it so easy to turn that space into a place that feels like yours comfortable stylish and ready for summer Wayfair has everything you need to level up your outdoor space whether it be conversation sets outdoor bars fire pits hot tubs gazeos and the perfect string lights to set the vibe it gives you that backyard resort feel without the resort price tag you can look at things like a new outdoor dining set or some modern lounge chairs to completely transform your patio whether your style is clean and modern or something else you’ll love being able to filter down to find exactly what that style fit is and at your budget don’t wait make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long head to wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection that is wayfair.com wayfair every style every home so the the draft tonight um I I guess I do want to get to what you just mentioned and what to expect if anything from the Bucks but that 2031 first round pick is I don’t know would you say the most valuable asset that’s out there right now given you know even if Giannis is still here by the time 2030 2031 rolls around he’s going to be what 35 36 and you know probably reduced from where he was um so that’s going to be an incredibly valuable thing that you know any team that’s that can play the long game so yeah we’ll take that and we’ll take on a bad contract if we get that cuz we think you’re going to be pretty bad camille and I have talked about this before and I understand the camp that says look as long as number 34 is here everything is on the table nothing is untouchable you’re willing to do anything to make this team better for the most part I agree with that i think where I struggle is we’ve seen a handful of people kick around Bucks would include a 2031 and their 2032 pick swap and this contract to get this player and because of the contracts you’re giving up it’s always like a marginal type of maybe starter level player but that’s about it for me I’ve always felt like if you are going to trade the 2031 it can’t just be I don’t even want to give a player name but it can’t just be like yeah he’s okay he’s better than Kyle Guzma basically like it has to be something that you feel like this guy’s really good and this guy’s going to be here for the next you know four or five years we’re going to extend him and ride out that era of Giannis with it yeah yeah I mean I think uh for better or worse the I imagine the ceiling of what that pick could get you is guys that are you know those starters who are intriguing so like they’re not like like all you’re not getting I don’t think you’re getting an all-star with Kyma that pick and you know some like the name that’s brought up the most Cam Johnson yeah i mean so I and and I would say this as far as like is it the most appealing valuable pick that is generally in play in the marketplace you hinted at it right for teams that can afford to Yeah sort of think that far out which is not every team right there’s you know there’s teams that would discount the fact that that that pick is so far out there’s obviously teams that you know have and GMs who have shorter leashes who are probably never going to see the light of making that pick
or really being able to use that pick so you know I think it would have a lot of value to teams that have a longer time horizon
less value to teams that don’t have that benefit um and so then that obviously sort of narrows the the number of teams
so that limits it to just the Thunder basically well well I mean more more than that but but you know I think um
Cam Johnson Cam Johnson’s an interesting because I think Cam Johnson’s a good example because like you could see the Nets being a team the Nets could go two different ways right the Nets could use all this flexibility they have they have what five first round picks now
um on Wednesday night they could use that to try to package and get people use that calf space to try to actually add and it probably be more from like absorbing contracts than it is from you know going out and signing necessarily guys um but you know notable that what they absorbed Trey man but or sorry Terrence man Terrence
but you know could they have been the landing place for percepts Porzingis or Drew Holiday or something like that like presumably if they wanted to but they didn’t want to so that perhaps speaks to the fact that you know maybe they’re not trying to be particularly good and obviously that maybe that means that if you could get Cam Johnson and you know for you could move Cam Johnson for the 2030 for Bucks pick and maybe you know something else plus Koozma maybe that’d be something they’d be interested in but yeah I think I think Cam Johnson I think you know the the idea we talked about like Colin Ston John Collins from the Jazz um you know I I don’t know the exact circumstances of what Toronto would be looking for in like an RJ Barrett deal but he feels like maybe he’s like the you know another like version of of that sort of player where it’s like
you know in your most optimistic late August you know sort of haze like the fan message boards could say like “Oh if this happens and this happens like that guy maybe there’s an all-star appearance in it for some guy.” But you know if we’re all sober and under the clear light of day we probably would say “Yeah that guy’s like a you know probably like a fourth banana.” And if you’re asking him to be your third best player let alone something more than that you’re probably not going to you know have title aspirations if if you’re expecting that much out of the guy um and I and I like Cam Johnson you know like I mean again like if you told me the Bucks traded the 2031 and Koosma for Cam Johnson I would probably say like well really mortgaging the last the last assets for you know to to to appease Giannis and you know like a guy like that I mean you know you can play the three small four like would fit actually quite well the shooting etc so you can see it actually working out pretty well here over the next couple years but you know he’s also 29 you know he’s kind of like Koozma sort of sneaky not young um both guys came out of the draft sort of older um and yeah I mean you can kind of go down the list right a guy like Barrett I mean Barrett put up like 21 six and five last year like really good numbers
then you kind of look at him and it’s like really not that efficient not a high volume three-point shooter like 35% you know kind of had the somebody had to score points and do stuff on a bad Raptors team kind of benefit last year so what does he look like you know playing with Giannis as the guy that you know has to that there’s actually pressure to win and play winning basketball yeah like I don’t think he’s going to be the next Chris Middleton but maybe there’s a version of him that you know could be something kind of like that in an absolute best case scenario so yeah it’s it’s kind of hard or I think like the jazz scenario right like I think the problem with like Collins and Saxon I think I mean you literally have to put Dame in to make the math work on that but like you know Sexton obviously is a guy that we’ve talked about for years going back to pre-ame you know Ston is like the Drew Holiday compliment which I think would have but would have been a good fit um in a lot of ways um but you know again it’s like is Khan Stton going to win you basketball games in April and meaningfully move the needle here um I don’t know and again like him being marooned in Utah like hasn’t been very instructive as far as like whether he’s a winning basketball player or not so I think those are like the there’s probably some guys that were missing but you know those are the sorts of players that you know we’re talking about and yeah I mean this is the thing like everybody that I think you could get there’s going to be real questions about you know man did did you really want to use that pick on that guy but I think that the the the thing that’s so interesting to me and I think I’ve probably said it before is what it between Giannis and John Horst i mean that would be my if if I’m Giannis the first question I’d ask about my summer is what would you give up for you know like
I don’t give a about 2031
like you got me you know I’m the best player in the world who are you gonna what are you gonna do with that pick to help me win you another championship and yeah I I mean good question for John Hor i’m sure you wouldn’t give a you know straight answer for it
here’s a list of guys
but you know like it would be I would love to know what John Horse secretly would be willing to do with that pick i’m sure there’s some scenario where he would move it uh in the short term but you know on some level there’s also I think an argument for if you you know especially if you think there’s a chance that you know Giannis’s interest in staying could evolve let’s say over the next year um I think there’s also an argument for saying like you know don’t be too quick to move to use that pick now ideally you kind of use the gap year quote unquote gap year you know excuse to maybe keep Giannis happy and not feeling like he we have to do something and then a year from now you figure out like okay you know is Giannis actually going to stay around would he extend um and then you make a decision about potentially using that pick rather than doing it right now but again the flip side is like you have finite years of Giannis’ Prime left you know you could argue sort of waiting a year is just like you’re getting really cute with you know the the best player in the the history of the franchise and and his his kind of best years well and I guess the last thing that I would bring up before we we just get to the Bucks draft is the the other thing about the the 2031 pick that I do find interesting for the Bucks and maybe puts them in a little different spot than some other teams in terms of like could be even more valuable is um team’s willingness to say “Yeah we’ll take that.” because you know number one what we just went over who knows where the Bucks are in 2030 but also you know especially since there has been smoke around it maybe not verified smoke but they’re one of the teams that comes up Brooklyn if you have an interest in Giannis and you say this is another thing of okay we have that Bucks pick so when they look to trade Giannis do you want your pick back here’s our starting point yeah And the other thing too is like I sort of implicit in I think our discussions here has been the idea of trading that as an unprotected pick right which yeah is how you maximize the value of a pick is by saying like
if it’s number one you keep it no no protections um obviously the Bucks don’t have to do that right the Bucks could put top one top three lottery whatever they could put protections on the pick it would just limit the the upside and the flip side too is if you put like protections on it and then it you know pushes to 2032 if if not then that also limits what you could do as far as swapping 2032 yeah exactly so you know if it if there was a protection that pushed to 2032 then you couldn’t sell the swap well I mean there there’s things you could do but like it would be much harder to monetize 20 2032 as a potential swap which that’s another thing they could do as well like they could obviously trade 2031 as a swap or they could trade 2032 as an unprotected pick like there you know but they can’t do both as just pure picks right because of the Steppian rule and the consecutive first rounders rule so um
so yeah it’s it’s and and I mean the other thing too you know last year Phoenix
um sort of deagregated um one I think it was one of their like their 2031 yeah
yeah one of their picks they got did they get like three bad first rounders basically for it
one is this year the 29th pick
which you know um I mean the the two arguments in favor of that is that you just have more you know it’s basically like getting change at the store so instead of having a $100 bill you’ve got you know 420s and 210s or whatever and you can
I don’t know if it’s 420s and two 10 but it’s you may have got 320s and a couple times great that’s true that’s true that’s true that that’s definitely true Justin um so I think the the argument would be if you you get that change you can like make smaller deals where now you’ve sort of disagregated the value and you can make more kind of like marginal deals you don’t have to put this big swing of a pick into into a trade um and the other argument too is like if you pull up those obviously if you wanted to use those picks well now they’re going to get to use one of those picks this year it’s just not a very good pick um and as we said too some teams may not value or may not really like even be in the market for a pick that far out so if you have multiple picks that are coming sooner then yeah some teams maybe some teams would view that as equal or even better value right um so it it it does change the calculus a little bit if you do try to break up um and I think I want to say Denver did that a couple years ago too although it wasn’t I don’t think it was as I don’t think it drew as much attention because Denver was not in a like perilous state with uh
was that the move they made while they were playing in the finals
it might have been while they were playing in the finals yeah they kind of like disagregated I think a further pick to get multiple um so anyway but yeah I
Well let’s talk about the draft um i guess what’s your what’s your what’s what’s your the main question probably people want to know is aside from who do we think they should pick which I have no educated opinion on yeah
apologies i’m too old like when I was in my late 20s early 30s I researched who the Bucks brought in for second round workouts and tried to have opinions which were mostly useless because you know you’re lucky if they pick one of those dudes um so I won’t even try to say who they who they want but I will say I don’t care really what position they pick
no you know like need plays like no role in in the second round for me um but I will probably the main question I will ask you is like what is your sort of likelihood that you think the Bucks actually keep this pick or or make a pick in the second round tomorrow night
i I think it’s incredibly strong they make a pick in the second round um I I don’t have any insights either on you know scouting of these that’s Camille’s category and she talked with Raphael Barlo uh what a week or so ago on on some of those names but yeah I mean I I would assume either it’s uh I do wonder if they if there’s a way to move up even if it’s moving up in the second round because I I don’t think this is going to benefit the Bucks at all but you already mentioned it too with Brooklyn controls one6th of the draft here and that’s kind of the model we’re moving towards for the foreseeable future where it really feels like all of the draft picks going forward are controlled by like five teams um you’re not going to carry Exactly which is hard for them because like
the Nets carry five rookies on
they don’t want to Right they don’t want to bring five rookies in next year even if they want to tank like this this is a pain in the ass to try to develop five guys with like no vets etc so I would you would expect at a minimum they would try to shift some of those into like future first or something like that
well and yeah and I mean
consolidate or you know
what we just mentioned too with what Phoenix did um I mean I I wouldn’t do it for like the 22nd pick or or one of the lower ones that Brooklyn has but if there is a I would assume part of it like you mentioned is to basically use that as your free agency and also see if you can package like two or three of those better ones and move up even further in the first round but if not is there a way too to turn your 2031 first into you get the 15th pick or whatever it is i think 19 is what the Bucks’s actual pick would have been which Brooklyn owns you get that and like uh two other first rounders in the near future for that pick um I mean is that something in your mind that’s more valuable than attaching to a contract to bring in another player it’s a good question i mean like I’m kind of honestly scarred from how poor the Bucks first round picks have generally been so like
it’s not really a bad thing to not have a first
so like the idea of the the best thing about the 2031 pick is like there’s no illusion that the Bucks can waste it on a bad player anytime soon right so it’s just sort of this like intangible thing um I mean I think there’s certainly again like you talk about time horizon yeah i mean we’ve been focusing on like how do you trade it for a player that can really help you win now a rookie obviously you’re not looking at them as like helping you win games next year but especially if the Bucks are like I don’t know if they can sell Giannis on this idea of like hey we’re you know we’re reloading we’ve got young guys we like we want to add more young guys we like so that you know you’ve got help over the next few years you know as you age etc um I I don’t know how much I don’t know how much that appeals to Giannis um but certainly an alternative to just trying to trade for like a veteran would be you know like we said disagregating it into like yeah like maybe it’s a couple of first round picks this year um and you try to yeah make the Nets think like oh we can get this future pick that we can then try to you know use to trade for Giannis um in a year or whatever it might be so it’d be interesting but I I don’t know i mean it’s an interesting question like I I I think anecdotally I’ve heard the Bucks really have not worked out like anybody in like a first round like range which is not to say that they couldn’t
except for that one report from whatever dad it was that like oh the Bucks actually were asking about they didn’t work him out but interviewing
was that Bryce was that Ron Harper who who said that about Bright his his son
was it ever revealed who it was
oh I don’t know i I thought that was like the speculation uh that was because that was at the time when the Spurs Bucks like oh Spurs going for Giannis type thing um so I I don’t know i just like maybe that was just people senseing
um
yeah I don’t know i I I just think it’s it’s I mean you got to have a lot of conviction i think you’d have to have a lot of conviction about the guy’s guy or guys that you were targeting um in order to make a move like that but uh but I don’t know we’ll see i mean I was I was also gonna say like you know is there is there something you could do with guys in the roster but I mean I think I think AJ is the only guy that has like first round pick value
and I don’t think they would trade AJ um you know I think with Andre I think just him falling out of the rotation I think probably means that I don’t think there’d be he may have like Yeah I think I think like if you told me that you could get like a second round pick for Andre like yeah I could see that um getting a first round pick for him man it would really have to be some team that just like fell in love with him and probably a late first um which you know like at this point like if I could get a late first for Andre like you know I mean I like the idea of Andre but you know he’s been a couple years now been here a couple years he’s still young but he’s not like you know a 20-year-old kid or something like that and obviously there’s some some clear limitations especially with regard to his fit with Giannis so I would certainly like sure like recycle that into just like a a fresh you know young player that that you could um have under contract control for a few years but probably not i would I would be surprised if something like that happened
what uh what’s his wingspan because I mean he’s the prototypical player that John Hammond and the Magic would be interested in so maybe you can uh with that i He’s only I think he’s only That’s a good question is is Andre like 66 yeah like a 610 wingspan
i don’t know if that’s enough it would have to be like 73 to get Jeff Welman to to bite on that um I don’t know can you Can we Is it I think it’s too late to do like a
John Henson signing trade larry Sanders what’s What’s Larry Sanders up to it’s been a quiet been a quiet few years for Larry uh
um yeah I mean look we’ve already seen the Celtics um in the blink of an eye Brad Stevens just gets him under the second apron and the the interesting part to like wrap it up with where we started in the Drew trade too is um I’m still surprised they didn’t have to attach anything i get your point too as as we were talking before recording well they traded two of their five best players but the Drew contract and how long it extends and whether or not what we saw during the regular season is like those are signs of decline with Drew Holiday i just assumed Boston was going to have to attach something like it was the inverse how they got two second rounders with Anthony Simons i assumed they would have to do that but to not only not do that to get in an an Anthony Simons I’m curious if he stays there he’s a free agent or will be a free agent do you reroute him because given the age and the contract is less I do think there’s a stronger market for Anthony Simons than there is Drew Holiday yeah I I like I said I think they they got very good value in in that move just because I feel like most teams would look at Drew’s contract and just say like
you know
yeah like it’s one thing to pay him 32 million next year but then you know 34 35 and then 37 what whatever the specific dollars are but you know to have three years remaining given he’s 34 going on 35 I think um you know that’s that’s tough and I realize I say I say that as a fan of a team that has Damen Lillard at the same age currently on the shelf for rehabbing an Achilles tendon injury so but that honestly makes it like I mean I don’t know maybe on some level you can say well you’re already like kind of screwed from like a aging guard perspective like just double down further but I I would say probably for the Bucks like having Dame currently in his position um on the one hand you could use Drew more especially next year um but yeah man i mean getting even older and putting even more like bad salary on the on the books like is it’s really tough so I’m you know if you had offered me basically because you could have done basically Drew for Koozma plus like you know Livingston’s contract and I I mean I would have easily been able to talk myself into that just because it would have made next year I think more enjoyable than it currently projects to be but um but part of me is like and I think this is where you were coming out is like ah man I love you Drew but like at that contract
it’s twice as much yeah it’s $105 million over the next three years
when he’s he’s going to be 35 36 and 37 on those contracts
and being able to like and again not I’m not going to sit here and say that like Gary Trent and Ryan Rollins and Kevin Porter Jr are like you know so much better than what Holiday would be over the next year or even two years um but you know you could literally get like all those guys for half of what Drew Holiday makes
and if you if you bring in if you it’s basically undoing the savings of the Middleton deal in a lot of ways right because you’re basically trading a guy in the mid 20 millions in Koozma back for a guy who’s making in the mid or low to mid30s which is where is similar to where Chris was last year
so it it just like basically takes away like a full sort of you know salary slot that you would otherwise want to put towards one of those guys that again are they world it makes you a tax team well yeah and and my whole assumption this summer is that they’re going to get out of the tax um again like are they going to get out of the tax going into the season would they go into the season over the tax and then potentially move under would they stretch Pat like they’re they’re kind of different levers there that that they could look into but my my operating assumption when I fill out my spreadsheets is like the number at the end of the day you know has to add up to to south of the
187 or whatever it is yeah yeah so so that’s also Yeah 1878 895 is the the magic tax threshold number which that’s the other thing too is like interesting you know with teams like the Celtics and obviously the Bucks felt it a year ago like I mean as you said like the the cap tax aprons they’re going up 10% every year basically um you know the second April next year should be about $21 million more than it is this year but you know we’ve seen it like it’s just it can’t grow fast enough in some cases right like Boston is a good example like the especially with teams that have like rookies going into big extensions which is where the the Thunder are going to be you know having
Shay basically already on a big number and then having both Chad and Jaylen Williams go on to they’re making 20 million combined this year So both of those guys going into like the 40s or whatever they’d be getting like 40 million and change and then Sheay
he’ll also eventually get the supermax although I think um you know it was pointed out that like sneaky brilliant move was Sam Presley getting Shay to sign for five years on his on his rookie max um without an option because otherwise I think he would be eligible for like 181 19 million more he could opt out and get a huge pay raise in that fifth year but he doesn’t have that option so he’ll have to wait an extra year which I mean that could be the difference between the Thunder like winning another championship and having to break up the roster in a way that potentially could limit them from doing that which you know again like I think everybody always jumps to every you know it’s happened basically every year for the last really not the Toronto year because Kawawaii left
yeah but you know going into every year after every year now really since the Bucks
this team’s primed to win
yeah like like everybody looks at like I guess they should be the favorites again because we just saw them win and you know like all those teams have retained the kind of the core of their rosters of you know going back to Toronto which didn’t but the Lakers Bucks you know Warrior maybe not the Warriors so much um but certainly Boston and Denver right like I mean until
until the late spring of 24 like everyone was saying like oh Denver’s got to be the favorite and like nobody can beat them late in games and then you know they’re out in the second round and now it’s like you know like I don’t like the weird comments today from Josh Cranky about like maybe trade you which is such a bizarre like why he ever would even suggest that was crazy but um but anyway is the least of the crazies that’s happened with the crankies through the years um yeah and that I mean everybody’s favorite uh podcast too earlier in the week throwing out the is this Thunder team best positioned in the history of sports to win now and in the future you’re like we’re
we’re just going to overlook the Edmonton Oilers winning four straight cups or the Cowboys in the 90s and countless other What about the New York Islanders the New York Islanders of the early 80s Justin the most underappreciated
i mean the Florida Panthers have won backto-back cups and been three straight cups too so um but yeah that I mean that’s the interesting part is I I mean you can’t look at it any other way than say it’s a three-year window for every single team and this is year two for the Thunder we just mentioned the contract situations and the races that are going to be due to some of those guys but also to get back to that Net’s point with five first round picks the Thunder have 15 guys under contract next season already too so eventually you’re going to have to start breaking up that team so it’s just an every year thing and also the last thing I’ll say is it’s I I think it’s 2029 that you can opt out of the CBA i wonder if we start to see anything going into like 27 28 where teams are getting the sense of we’re opting out of this thing because we’re not pleased with how it’s gone and we’re loading up thinking that these things are going to be reduced and let’s shift how we’re building teams it’s interesting because I think everybody’s assumption has always been with the Thunder that they would use all those assets to just like add you know another superstar but first off you can only really do that if you’re getting rid of one of the guys who’s going to make one of the max slots right one of your top three guys and then I think the more realistic outcome probably is that it’s almost like they you know because like Caruso is going to be making 20 million a year
yeah in his early 30s i feel like probably the more likely scenario is that you’re basically swapping out
you know heart and shine exactly like you’re basically recycling those guys into slightly lower paid versions like basically they can go and cherrypick the underpaid veteran type guys
or they could potentially obviously consolidate try to target some guys in the draft i mean they can continue to make draft picks every year and just see if they strike it rich um but it’s much more about allowing them to reload in a flexible way and kind of maintain depth than it is just like getting like a superstar because I just
I would be surprised if they add a superstar to replace either Jaylen Chat and obviously they’re not going to do that with Shay like and that that was always the part like you know like with any sort of like hypothetical Giannis discussion over the last year it was like well you kind of like almost have to give up definitely one of Jaylen in chat and then another like really huge salary slot because otherwise like you can’t really I mean you can’t afford to keep Giannis plus all of your existing top three like there’s no money to do that without paying $500 million in Oklahoma City for you know like a payroll which is just I mean I know they’ve spent the money in the past but like not that kind of money and I don’t know any team that’s going to do that for more than maybe one year right i mean maybe a team like the Knicks could um but it’s it’s hard to even get to that point um you know that’s like a great problem to have but um yeah I mean and that’s this is the true last thing I I’ll say about it um that’s the one thing too that always gave me pause about you know anybody projecting Giannis is this is the package for Giannis and you and I have talked about this before too when people would bring up the Spurs I just like Giannis has an ego too and I don’t see Giannis saying “I’m going to go team up with WBY and I’m going to jump on Victor WB and Yama’s team.” And that’s where it starts to be the challenge is like okay where’s the fit because Giannis isn’t going to another team to be the the 1B to a 1A and I don’t know what the team is out there i guess Houston was the best scenario in terms of having pieces around him where you come in and you’re the star but as you know days go by there are just less and less of those teams that are out there and I think we’ve seen more and more to realize like if you’re joining another star those are the scenarios that just don’t work in the CBA yeah yeah we’ll see by the way I’m just some some news here uh Jake Fisher Jake Fish not not real news but Jake Fischer just said the Kings may be looking to give Dennis Schroeder a mid-level a full mid-level deal which really puts the kibash on my maybe get him for the taxpayer mid-level to be your your starting guard so hey Kevin Porter Jr and Ryan Rollins come on back friends um but um anyway we’ll we’ll see i am we’ll have a lot more time to talk about free agency
and and Kyrie Irving is declining his player option has agreed to a new Neil deal new deal with the Mavs so take him off the the board for the Bucks as well uh yeah Ryan Rollins and Jericho Sims it’s been eerily quiet on that front for the Bucks i think we’ve heard murmurss for every other guy and their interest in guys like Gary Tren Jr i think there’s this assumption they’re going to retain Jericho Sims um but I don’t it’s been quiet and the the deeper it gets into it the more you start to feel uneasy is the wrong word but like I wonder if they’re going to be able to retain Ryan Rollins yeah i mean the I think in the mock off season that the Dunk Don guys did he was kind of like a late I think it was like they had New Orleans like throwing him off i can’t remember what the number was um but it was kind of like one of those musical chair things at the end where was like “Oh we need a point we need a point guard.” like oh Ryan Rollins maybe make him an offer and they they I would say the Dunktown guys like I think Kemp Pelton was doing the Bucks like he seemed to really be fixated on like oh the Bucks want to bring back Kevin Porter Jr which I don’t know i don’t know that they would prefer to bring back
They do but yeah I’ve long assumed Gary Trent Jr is their number one priority
yeah and I don’t even I mean I honestly don’t even know like if given the choice between Rollins and KPJ I I don’t know like if like which of those guys the Bucks would prefer i mean the Bucks obviously like you know went out and got Rollins and gave him a chance and you know like he played hurt last year with the shoulder injury and you know obviously was very good for them kpj as you pointed out like they were pretty close to getting him a year ago and then traded for him so obviously there’s like it’s not like he was like just some random dude that they like brought in so yeah I mean I think in the grand scheme of the universe I think you’d like to have both guys back but I think you know with no Damen Lillard for the vast majority of the season I think you need three ball handlers you know at least and I’m not including Giannis although he’ll be the primary guy when he’s playing um but I think you want like at least three guys that you can squint at and say like “Okay that’s like a you know a point guardish type guy.” And you know both those guys fit that fit that quantity but you know if one of those guys is hurt then like suddenly it’s like “Oh who’s who’s going to play point guard for us like who’s going to eat minutes like as a initiator to like bring the ball up at least you know?” Well we already said Pat Coneton opted into his deal so
there you go point pat point pat um should start to get really interesting here for the Bucks as we have approached day one of the two-day NBA draft and already starting to see a lot of moves trickling out there that’ll do it for today’s show for Frank i’m Justin we’ll talk with you guys once again tomorrow on Locked on Bucks

NBA trade frenzy reshapes Eastern Conference landscape. Will the Milwaukee Bucks make a splash before the draft?

Justin Garcia and Frank Madden analyze recent blockbuster trades, including Jrue Holiday’s move to Portland and Kristaps Porzingis’ departure from Boston. They explore how salary cap constraints are forcing even wealthy teams to make tough decisions. The duo dissects potential moves for the Bucks, examining trade targets like Cam Johnson and the value of Milwaukee’s 2031 first-round pick. Despite holding only the 47th pick, Garcia and Madden debate the Bucks’ draft strategy and potential to trade up. The conversation expands to cover the Oklahoma City Thunder’s future and the Brooklyn Nets’ draft assets.

Tune in for expert insights on how these moves could reshape the NBA’s competitive landscape and impact the Bucks’ championship aspirations.

0:00 Intro: Trade season and NBA Draft preview
5:06 Boston Celtics’ roster changes and implications
15:36 Analyzing potential Bobby Portis contract scenarios
23:14 Discussing the value of Bucks’ 2031 draft pick
29:50 Examining Giannis’ future and team-building strategies
36:46 NBA Draft expectations for the Bucks
43:33 Jrue Holiday trade and salary cap implications
50:42 Oklahoma City Thunder’s future roster challenges
55:10 Free agency rumors and Bucks’ guard options

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