Cam Johnson on the 2025 NBA Champion OKC Thunder & Tyrese Haliburton’s Injury

Cam Johnson on the 2025 NBA Champion OKC Thunder & Tyrese Haliburton’s Injury

welcome back to the young man in the three as always presented by Wondery Media and 342 Productions mr cam Johnson in the building finals game seven of the finals was Sunday the draft is tomorrow night boy CK is in the building as well shout out to him what’s up dude
and just happy to be here happy to be on the pod back in BK
back in BK
back in sweltering 107
brought the heat with me
107 degrees i brought it with me i think before we start uh we should say something about Tyrese um you know good friend of both of ours yeah part of the show i mean you can start with you know we’ve both gotten a chance to speak to him we’re going to go see him but you can start with your thoughts
yeah i mean the first thing that comes to mind man is that your heart just breaks for him um and I think that’s felt across the league with every player and I think that’s felt across all the fans um Thunder fans Pacers fans NBA fans in general anybody who witnessed it um just the pain on his face when he hits the ground and kind of that moment where he he realizes what happened um you can see he takes a quick look back it’s like no way it pants to his father John and you can just see the pain like it it really sucks and it hurts and it took the air out of the building i’m sure you were there you can attest to that but it took like me and CK were watching it like we’re hyped for the game and like God this is great and then he goes down and we’re just like sitting there like just like man what um so I wish him the best in his recovery he’ll come back um obviously these things take time but he’ll be back and just an incredible run by him i mean he took the court with a calf strain was able to play through it a little bit um understood there was risk in it but um I don’t think that mattered to him i think the opportunity to win an NBA championship the opportunity to compete in a game six on your home floor and defend it and then go on the road and try to win a game seven i mean I’m not going to speak for him but I can’t imagine that he has many regrets on the issue he gave his whole heart he’s had one of the most um amazing late game performance stretches in not only postseason history but like he he was doing this all season so when you take a cumulative season from regular to post you put together all his clutch time moments like it’s a historic run it just sucks it has to end that way but um I think he’ll come back stronger
one of the things about him as a person um you know I got a chance to talk with him Sunday afterwards and then a little bit yesterday as well he I think his post last night kind of summed it up better than any of us could but he’s in good spirits is probably the wrong way to describe it but his perspective on the situation is so
um great already I think and what he’s accomplished and what he was doing this all for that it provides a little bit of a calming presence I think to his even to his family and to his teammates and things like that
um because it was to your point it was shocking mhm
you know you’re in there everybody felt it the guys in the Thunder felt it it is really I think it’s a tribute to him outside of basketball as a person to be able to handle something that’s that sort of traumat it’s traumatic for people who don’t know him and you know he’s living through it and he’s able to just have that perspective in real time which I think is one of the things just makes him so impressive
but in in in my time knowing him that’s part of his personality he seems to be a resilient guy um he seems to just you know be able to just roll with what life throws just roll with what life throws and just try to rise and just try to rise and just try to rise
we should talk about the Thunder
congrats to them uh they they finished with 84 wins only uh the 96 and 97 Jordan Bulls teams and this Thunder team have accomplished 84 wins and a title in NBA history when you’re living through these things in real time sometimes um it’s hard to kind of put perspective on that but this was an all-time great team who finished in an all-time great way what is your when you’re thinking about this group over on you when we did this before the playoffs you know we didn’t really make predictions but you were pretty high on them making a run so this is not this is not exactly a you know a shocking outcome but them actually with the youngest team in the league them actually getting through and actually doing it is a little bit different than you know us having this conversation on April 10th that’s exactly what I was about to say so them actually executing all the way through and finishing the job is a lot different than us sitting here April 10th and saying that they have the ability to do it it’s two completely separate things so you give them a ton of credit for doing that the first thing that comes to mind with the Thunder team is just unselfishness i think Chad made a comment about it after the game but it’s a bunch of guys who play really hard no matter the circumstance no matter their touches um and of course a lot of credit goes to Prey and assembling a group but I think Chad might have said something about how they’re all winners their team is full of winners and the winners like he said don’t just play hard when things are going their way don’t just play hard when the ball’s coming their way they make every play whenever they can and that’s kind of how they made it through the entire uh playoffs you know they have main guys engine SGA they have JDub as that kind of auxiliary secondary can give you 35 kind of guy and then everybody else fills in every other piece and they have complimentary pieces they have guys that can shoot the ball i told you at the beginning of the finals that like one a couple guys that I’m watching for those bench guys like a Wiggins a Caruso a Joe and Wiggins comes in and makes a huge impact one game and and and gives them a huge boost like those guys are just able to come in and step up and sometimes they’re called sometimes they’re not you saw um the other Jaylen Williams come in and and you know he might not play much and then he’s thrown in a game and these guys don’t put their heads down they don’t complain they they like attack they attack their moments yeah
and so that’s a team that kind of deserves to win a championship a team like that that just plays hard executes relentless defensively and um you can tell that they’ve done a really good job of building that culture from the ground up i I do think it’s interesting um to that point you know they made in this series they obviously made the lineup switch in game one with Kase they flipped it back uh I believe in game four where they went back to the double bigs but even them doing that which when they lost game one you know Dagno got a little bit of heat at the time for for doing it but I thought it was interesting that there was just no there was no like drama around it it was just like we’re trying this thing and by the way like even though they lost game one
they won on a buzzer beater on on a dramatic comeback and the starting lineup played well like Kase played well it wasn’t like it wasn’t like it didn’t work but I just to your point their pieces are so um interchangeable around the engines that it did just kind of feel like okay this is going to be the Caruso game this is going to be the Wiggins game cruz had a couple of them but there was but there was no um there was no sense of like okay uh we are off of this plan and it’s going to throw us off um our hinges and like in any way
yeah i mean it’s it’s just it’s it’s a product of their consistency their approach it’s a thing that’s that’s been built be having been on really good teams i know what it’s like to be on that team that you step on the court every game you feel like you’re going to win when you get to the playoffs there’s a lot of just outcomes that can happen
and so it takes that extra bit of consistency that they showed like it wasn’t perfect they had games where they looked like a little shell shock like that game six they got punched they went to Minnesota in a what was that a a
game four
four three 0 yeah and
the Denver one was Denver was
so not like they just dominated i mean it throughout the course that’s a really good playoff record to have what they came away with you know to to come away with the the win
um but it’s not like it wasn’t without struggle without fight they were just able to respond
curious to bring up bring this up with them my perspective even looking back on this playoff run outside of this series which was just like I mean the Pacers just would not die so it’s like I think that they knew I think they knew that going in and it was proven in time that this is just a team that like
you don’t know what’s going to happen except they’re going to be a tough out but in that Denver series to this point they had the buzzer beater they lost on in game one the Gordon one they get down 2-1 and they’re in Denver on like a Sunday playing game four in Denver and they’re both teams are shooting horribly and those and it was the bench guys that brought them back it was like Wiggins and Case and Kase was like all of their young all of their kind of uh guys that had got them there were all a little bit off and the bench guys came in and basically won them that game the the series obviously still went seven but that was like in championship runs no matter you could have 75 wins you still might be down 2-1 in a series in a playoff series in Denver with the altitude you know so you still need that with your stars not playing
yeah and so that was a it it did feel like it was a if you were to do sort of a forensic analysis on how they got there this was not just like Shay scoring 38 a night Dub having 25 a night and everyone else just playing defense
which is usually kind of how it happens right but I think that’s also the superpower of the Pacers in this playoffs the fact that they have guys across the board that can step up in crunch time they’re coming back on teams these teams it’s not Tyree shooting the ball every time it’s not Pascal shooting the ball every time you might have knee Smith get hot you might have Nemhar get hot tj might might you know get on a little run the Pacers were able to to
Obi
Obi they’re they’re able to kind of get you at at a lot of angles which just like usually in the playoffs you go up against the team when it gets to you know when when the rubber meets the road you put the ball in the star players hands and it’s just like it’s your job
it’s your job like New York with Brunson you know you put the ball in his hands it’s your job and that’s just that’s normal that’s very normal pace just kind of flipped that on its head and just like no like if you’re open shoot the ball we’re going to play fast generate the best shot and just kind of be relentless even if we’re down 15 in the fourth
do you think that teams from a team building perspective Thunder had a very unique way that they were built obviously shout out to Pressie and that whole organization but Indy’s probably a better comp of like how teams are going to look at sort of building for the future they’re going to look at that and they’re going to sort of prioritize building with depth and building with these sort of interchangeable pieces rather than being like we need to have I think I think we know the era of the big three and having just like three superstars and and eight minimum guys is has gone away but even just in general being like we need to have the flexibility to withstand whatever is thrown at us and the Pacers i was going to ask you about like can you remember a team that was like even in game seven they were up at halftime there’s a there are people looking around the arena being like well we don’t know how this is going to go down and we also don’t know who’s who’s going to beat us
you know TJ TJ’s going crazy in the third quarter tj went crazy in the third quarter in game five as well even though they didn’t win the game it’s it’s hard to remember a team that was as um just resilient all the time like everyone will talk about the crazy comebacks we’ve talked about it you know the down nine in 40 seconds and everything like that but even in the games they lost they just did not die they would never die yeah
very scrappy and I’m and I’m wondering if that is going to be I mean obviously every team would love to be scrappy but if from a team building perspective there’s going to be a sense of like oh we need
if we are not running 9 10 deep with guys we trust in the fourth quarter of a game six in the finals it doesn’t matter who our stars are
like we are we we have no shot you know and I’m kind of curious if they’re if they’re going to follow teams are going to follow that model more
the model of what though when when you look at the Pacers if you’re the GM of another team what What is the What is the markers of that model that you try to follow
well I would say with the Pacers specifically and some of this you have to obviously give a lot of credit to Carile to Jenny to all the assistants all the the whole coaching staff there is amazing you know one of the best in the league but they’re so defined the rotations are so defined their roles are so defined the way they run their offense is so defined they got way better at defense this year which was a big reason why
they made this jump but there was a point where you’re like Ty like Tyrese Sakum these guys are unbelievable individual talents so they have the ability to take over at any point because of that but there was limited drop off with the bench consistently because everybody knew what they everyone knew their role so definitively in a way that was not rellyant on okay we have you know our star and then we have our six-man who’s you know running the second unit and we need both of them to be on or we’re going to be in trouble yeah there was just no I think that what you’re what you’re talking about about having all these different guys step up is just the just the sense of I think they you know they they could have been down more pieces and the result might have been the same
yeah i think one thing about both these finals teams is that there’s an element of unselfishness on both of them you know you look at the box scores at the end of these games and the Pacers like you might see their starting lineup at like 15 10 seven eight
14 and the bench 10 8 18 14 and next it’s like the 115 points
um you we didn’t even mention Matherine he basically won them a game by himself
yep 27 points on 75% from the field off the bench like that wins games and so I look at that Pacers team I see multiple primary ball handlers multiple guys that like if you want to put somebody on him to speed him up if you wanted to press Tyres Hallebert in full court make him turn make him turn make him turn tie him out that’s okay give the ball to them hard let him bring it up free up some space so with that kind of multiple ball handlers TJ Nem Hard Tyrese you’re freeing up space you have Pascal who’s like one of those guys that like obviously a super talented player but it’s not a give me the ball every possession kind of guy he’s not like I’m I’m the superstar of the team give me the ball like he functions as a just super highlevel guy that can fit in that system and then you complement it with you know a rim protector like Miles Turner who can step out and shoot the three and then you you form all these pieces together obie you know what I mean you can create lineups where they’re going small where they’re going where they’re going with a bigger lineup and then they’re able to keep you on your toes a little bit so if I’m a GM looking at that team it’s that unselfishness multiple ball handlers and then flexibility in the lineups that you can put out with trust that you said well the other thing to the to this depth piece and we should mention with the the defense is their ability defensively to just both legitimately press and then also put pressure on you offensively i think was a thing that I noticed that at game four in particular even though the Thunder came back and won
um and this is like just a tribute to Shay and his greatness because Sheay was gassed
like his hands were on his hips yeah
he never he had never been in a series like this where these guys were like up in his as much as this fouling him hard hands on him every possession
and that’s and that was it was really interesting because it was uh and this is you know again to this point about like this is where the the champion is built
is doing is if they don’t win that game a series is over
yeah exactly
you know if he doesn’t do that in the fourth quarter
series is over and so that is a that was it was not a it was not a series of all right you know blow out in game one blow out in game two on the other side blow out like this was a it was there were very much these sort of windows where both teams had to kind of flip the thing on its head to to bring it back around
another cool thing from the series that I that I saw um the Thunder are are really good defensively but they’re aggressive and they foul and they do it in smart ways they do it in ways that you can’t call all game but they play a highly physical defensive game it’s what they do it’s what they’ve been doing and refs have been letting them do that all playoffs game seven beating up on Joic beating up on Joic beating up on Joic that was their formula and they were really good at it um the Pacers I didn’t hear complaints like I’m not I’m watching the game I don’t see like oh my gosh they’re they’re falons they’re foul what I saw was them saying “Okay bet we’re going to bring that same physicality to the table we’re going to guard Shay the same way we’re going to put that much pressure on Jayd we’re going to hit these guys we’re going to we’re going to get in them we’re going to foul them we’re going to hands and and so sometimes it resulted in in in a lot of free throws on both sides but the Pacers kind of stepping up to the challenge of that physicality that the Thunder brought to the table and matching it i thought that was a pretty impressive part of the series and part of the reason why it was so entertaining and went seven we as a show but probably you in particular were I’m not going to say ahead of the curve because everyone has known this since he was in Philly but we’ve been gassing TJ on this show really since December I think since we started talking about high school TJ and I think that now the whole world kind of knows it and there was a there was a period mentioned game five game seven where you’re like is this guy the best guy on the court this guy taking over right now
like it’s it’s not just like oh it’s not like he’s just hitting a couple open threes
it’s like people didn’t even real like people are like who is this guy like where’d he come from it’s like he hasn’t been doing like he’s playing the same way he’s always played he’s playing the same way he’s played when he’s in his Pacers tenure and his 76ers tenure that’s how he plays scrappy he’s going to get steals he’s going to hit that little mini midi get to the paint you know shake things up um I just like showing love to the Pittsburgh guys man obviously Pittsburg guys
this is a good showing for the season talking about TJ uh there’s me and TJ and we got some young guys that kind of maybe left the city when they were young but uh we’re still trying to claim them um but I I just love that he’s he’s putting on for the city man we’re trying to get Pittsburgh’s basketball culture up uh show kids back there that that they can make it to the NBA um and he’s a he’s a prime example of that so I’m happy for him he should keep his head held high uh huge contributor in the finals huge contributor on a on a playoff team making a finals push um I’m definitely proud of him and I I really appreciate him putting on for the city
so a couple um trades that happened one happened late last night one happened this morning boston Portland uh Drew Holiday for Anthony Simons and two second rounders then New Orleans Washington today CJ and Kelly Olen for Jordan Pool Sadique Bay and the 40th pick do you have any thoughts on either of those
i’m wondering what the pace I mean what the paces what the Trailblazers are doing i think Boston did it in a move where it gives him more flexibility and is expiring but also incredibly talented and a scorer you know you lose Tatum but you’re adding that scoring punch with with Ant and putting a little flexibility because where they stand right now that roster is extremely expensive boston
boston and so they they have to be creative and trying to stay competitive this year like championship competitive but not just burying themselves in the books from a from a ownership front office perspective you know so I I I I see that move on their behalf i’m wondering what Portland’s going to do are they going to keep Drew i think they they they I thought this might be a move where they’re committing to their youth with Scoop Shaden Odia guys like that so I I’m not sure
i hope they keep I hope they don’t tra him again and then move him again like they did it last time two years ago so it’s like they already did it once
on the Boston front were both really high on general he was 36% from three on eight attempts
and that was a lower lower year for him he can also but also those guys did not have a lot of spacing and you look at the way that Boston talked about all year the way that they
are are spaced out for these guys and the way they get these threes up
like you could see if you assuming he stays you could see him taking like a huge offensive jump just with that personnel yeah
and in this system he always felt like one of those guys that like offensively everything is there for him to do this and he needed to be in a situation that was sort of like more set up for him to actually the ability to go do that and I don’t think that that was Portland um I think the question with Portland I mean to look at it from their perspective is like the one thing they do have a lot of right now is a lot of really good defenders
like they are they’re going to be a pain in the ass assuming Drew stays they’re going to be a pain in the ass to play against the scoring might be a question um but it’s like you know him Aidan like Denny like they just have a lot of guys that lock up
yeah they do but let’s talk about this from Drew Holiday’s perspective um one you got to give him a ton of credit for what he’s been able to accomplish especially on this like it’s it’s the back half of his career where he goes to Milwaukee Championship goes to Boston Championship and shortly after the Milwaukee Championship traded shortly after the Boston Championship traded but his mark on those two franchises
Team USA gold medal exactly team USA another gold medal what he can like he brings a high level of winning to any team he’s on so I do they keep him and just try to get him to bring up the young guys is he interested in that does he want more championship runs is he going to ask for it trade that’s that’s the questions I’m asking
i would I don’t This is not based off any inside information but I I think he wanted to be on the West Coast okay
um I mean that is like kind of inside information but he wanted to be on the West Coast i think that he
he had such a good relationship with the people in Boston everyone knew they were gonna have to do something with this roster especially when Jason got hurt
that no one is unlike the Milwaukee unlike the Dame trade i don’t think anyone is shocked by this and I think that there was a multiple conversations about different destinations yeah and I would I would assume that he had more say in this than he did than he did last time and I would and I do wonder uh you know with somebody like him where he has had all of this success if there is a nice I mean it’s a little bit not to compare the two because they’re very different players but a little bit like with CP when he goes to all these different young teams like he was he didn’t think he was winning a championship in San Antonio last year but he leaves a real imprint on that team he left a real imprint on OKC when he was there for a year and there’s there may be something that’s appealing about um being in that kind of situation and allowing to be allowing yourself to be like a mentor like that rather than just being like I need to go and
hunt you know rings because the way that with the way the apron is set up
there’s not a it’s not like there’s a title contender that could just like slot him in
not easily but if you could
Yeah if if we if they if a if if a if a title or a team on the brink could add him he’s a piece that is just so solid he elevates your team’s ability to win so I’m interested to see what happens here
what do you think about the one today pool and and
it’s interesting man i’m I’m trying to figure out what New Orleans um what they’re trying to do it I and I’m not really sure um it’s probably not really for me to know or care about but um you know it’s it’s similar guys you’re trading it’s just one’s a little older and and but they’re very you know creative scoring smaller guards
i don’t think this is going to be their last move New Orleans
but it does feel like assuming you’re keeping Zion it’s just like surround him with as much shooting
okay as possible but I mean CJ can shoot too so it’s not like
Yeah but but the timeline’s different
timelines are very different
so then pivot to Washington now they’re older
i think Washington I think they’re just trying to get as much cap space as possible i wonder what So what do they do
i wonder what somebody like I wonder with a team like Washington if they look at cuz I’m really high we did an episode with Balo we’ll probably do some more with some of those other guys next year they got a lot of really good young players and they made this a smart calculation at the deadline of basically being like we don’t need to be in between like let’s look at what happened in OKC let’s take these guys who we value highly who are like um you know productive even if they’re not winning in these minutes and let’s get them real run let’s not have So even the veterans that are there the Middletons and the Marcus Smarts and guys like that they’re not the focal points of the offense like this is like Bal’s team this is Bub’s team cj is going to be the same way where you’re going to basically like I don’t know what’s going to happen with CJ but
you think he stays
well he’s up after this year right
i think that’s the So I think he probably stays for a year and then or maybe at the deadline at Okay yeah that but I but either way I just think they’re not looking at 25 26 as like oh we need to shoot for a four seed this year it’s like we need to get these guys ready and we need to have maximum maximum flexibility the other question I have I think for you and you know you guys are a part of this to a certain extent but it’s just an interesting it’s an unfortunate but it’s an interesting phenomenon with the injury stuff is the east is like I mean the east is a
opened up yeah we didn’t talk we did an episode uh with Dez with Dez Spain last week we haven’t talked about that they’re going to be really good but it just feels like the East is a this is the time to make a move in the East because you have
uh two of probably the you know three best teams in the conference are going to be missing their best players for most of the year if not the whole year which is a sucks but is also a it’s the reality of the situation like those guys are not replaceable
right
so it doesn’t mean those teams will make the playoffs but they’re not going to be as good
even Dame man that’s huge
yeah and Dame yeah i mean that’s three three of
three true Eastern Conference top three of the top four or five contenders
that are fighting for it
have taken significant blows for next season
i think that that does um it does probably change the dynamic of like in Orlando of like we need to
do it now
yeah just go for it back to the playoffs for a second
yeah biggest macro takeaway um not just from the finals but overall about about what what stood out from the all the teams that had success
i said I mentioned this before but I think all the teams that that really had success one were able to respond to adversity which is baseline minimum there’s going to be tons of it throughout a playoff run but it’s kind of the ways in which they did it and it’s coming from across the board is what I’d say it’s being able to truly rely on one through eight one through nine to get the job done and many different moments um I think you made a good point where you’re looking at like the era of big threes and stuff it it’s it just seems too volatile it it seems too you know you’re vulnerable seems like it seems fully done to me
yeah it seems like it’s doesn’t seem like the the winning the winning recipe anymore and so I think that you’re going to see these teams just try to construct rosters where almost try to bulletproof your roster a little bit more instead of going for super just how many top you know allstars can I gather on a team at the expense of the entire roster so I think those teams were having success it does make the draft i’m wondering we’re taping this the day before the draft this has been the case with the draft as long as the draft has existed but you look at the Pacers you look at both those teams but look at the Pacers and you look at the their key contributors outside of Tyrese who was who was drafted 11th but they got in the trade you look at like Nemar Doug with who they didn’t draft but they traded for Obi traded for um but there is also a sense of like I mean it’s probably gonna Ne Andrew Nemar’s brothers in this draft and it’s probably gonna help him for sure
but there’s going to be a sense of like okay we are we’re looking for dogs like that
that we can find with the 33rd pick that we can find with the 38th pick that we can we are not just going to be like okay we didn’t you know we uh we didn’t land in the top four and so we’re just going to take a flyer on something it’s like you’re going to you you want to build with your depth is not just going to come from the top 15 you know the depth is going to come throughout
yeah another thing to highlight is as always health it’s health health you look at Cleveland when when they get they got beat up in that second round to injuries and they just sunk quickly like a really really good team all year sunk quickly look at OKC they had a from the outside looking in a pretty healthy run and maybe a credit to that a part of that is that they have so many pieces that are able to kind of elevate one another where it’s not fully on one thing but health can also be random um Tatum going down Dame Lillard going down was probably really big in that initial series
the Lakers uh you know the reports are that they had some some some injury issues in in that run and stuff like that so you see how important of a factor health plays and it’s every every every year i mean you look back a couple years ago at the Nets and and what was it a hard and hamstring and a
the whole thing
Kyrie ankle like that those are huge
huge huge uh moments that that changed the whole landscape of the playoffs so um obviously I hate to see it I hate to see guys go down but just simply as a bottom line like health is required in in in making a successful playoff run we talked about this with Trey a couple weeks ago is there any do you have any thought about any sort of change in terms of number of games or anything like that
i do have thoughts on it um you know I do think the NBA today has played faster um is the pace is higher i don’t think you can argue that of course it’s always been 82 games with the same amount of playoff runs maybe you you know you can look back to the when we change five game series to seven game series um I don’t know how much of a role maybe specialization in youth sports where kids that are now coming to the NBA have been playing non-stop basketball 365 days a year AU tournament after AU tournament game after game after game their whole lives i don’t know if that’s what plays a part but it’s tough it’s tough and you look at something like a like Tyrese’s calf like that’s a calf strain that’s a calf strain that that when played through became a career in this moment altering injury where you miss an entire se you’re due to miss an entire season um I think less games could result in less injuries it’s not that it’s guaranteed to but it could but at the same time it’s the way the NBA’s always operated it’s it you could argue that it maximized the money i mean butts are still in seats so there’s a lot of arguments to be made around what to do on that aspect and I I’m sure there’s going to be plenty tons and tons of research as we pour a lot of resources into injury prevention as we continue to do it it’s an everchanging landscape but there’s a lot of like really bright minds that actually dedicate their lives to injury prevention in professional sports and how to kind of condition athletes cuz if you overdo it then you get overuse injuries if you underdo it then you get those you’re trying to hit the gas pedal too hard injuries so it’s it’s a very um it’s really a sensitive line that I don’t think people really understand fully um but but I I it’s it’s it’s an ever ongoing debate
i’ll tell you the thing that I feel like I don’t know if they’re going to change anything but should be revisited which we’ve talked about a bunch of players have talked about I talked about with Tyrese in the show as well uh last year about this when he had some injury stuff is the 65 game thing because I do think well like that was a 65 games to make all NBA basically the the requirement of it because it does there’s now documented examples of it guys coming back early um earlier than they should to try to um you know get themselves under that threshold to make that and I and I think that while like there’s a nobility in why they put it in in practicality with what we’re talking about like something has to give and it probably should be that and I you know to be sort of honest about it I I think that it’s less important that like you know you play a road game in um Memphis so their fans can see you then like you’re healthy in the playoffs
you know what I mean like right i just like the argument that
the fans pay the
TV partners and d and I’m like but you know what like you know what’s really bad for the TV partners if the stars are not playing in the playoffs and like you’re you can’t have it both ways and I think we’re seeing that now is like that feels like the thing that feels like if you’re going to change anything there there’s a there’s a real sort of argument that that even if it was done for the right reason has now resulted in there’s a bunch of examples of guys who have not been able to get themselves healthy for the playoffs ironically not the ones we’re talking about in this particular playoffs but it’s h it happened last year a lot um and I think that there just there’s a all the things you’re describing you the status quo feels like something has to shift a little bit there there’s a discussion to be had but say you change from 82 to 65 games as a season it doesn’t guarantee that guys are healthier it does not cuz injuries can also be random so maybe instead of a guy playing 62 out of 82 games a guy plays 45 out of 62 games you’re still missing time so it’s not there’s not a simple fix there’s just not but to your point about you know you would rather sit out this random Tuesday road game on a backtoback when you’re banged up to like I don’t think people at home really understand how much they track what we’re doing like when they track every step we take on court in practice every step we take in workouts every step we take in games and they develop risk risk profiles to see when you’re at risk so when a guy even if it’s load management I don’t know what the terms are i don’t know what the anything is you know with the legality of in the NBA because there have been fines handed down for stuff like that but these are not random like oh buddy like you’re tired like these are calculated decisions in most cases to be what’s best for the athlete
yep
and and so I know people at home might think it’s soft it’s whatever it’s whatever
but at the end of the day you’re responsible for your career and the people that are around you are responsible for your career and sometimes decisions are made that like you don’t want um a minor injury to turn into a major injury where you’re missing multiple months or maybe even a season um so like I said man it’s a really fine line that I’m sure tons of resources are going to continue to be poured in as we look for a solution
it would be it would be interesting to have for us to have a a pitcher around here i think there’s a lot of parallels in baseball and I think that pitchers um this is you know we’d want to hear it from them but my sense is they are
that they and the people around them are a little more hardcore about being like nope like I’m like I don’t want Tommy John like we’re so like we are going we we have we have uh you know pain they’re so sensitive to any sort of pain
they feel like they know when the slightest things are
yeah and it is but there is a there is sort of a similar thing of like you know the you know it would be great for the MLB if if skins or you know Deg Grom a couple years ago pitched every five days but if the alternative is you know they do that and then all of a sudden they burn out five months in you need them you basically these league the leagues need you guys they need them in October they need you guys in May and June so they have to figure out how they can get to that
right as a Pirates fan I’d love a pitch every night
yeah I love it the last thing uh before we go because we were talking about this before and you’ve a lot of thoughts and perspective on this there’s a lot of conversation around um the pageantry finals the you know the broadcast the uh all kinds of the they started showing the pregame in uh intros halfway through the series
which I thought was great people brought up the courts
yeah and do you have thoughts on um the stickers specifically on the courts because this was a complaint that they used to have the stick the finals logos um trophies all over the courts and they took them off and so what they did in game one was they superimposed them and of course it’s like the internet so no one is happy with anything so people hated that too but you have specific thoughts I feel like on the stickers which are relevant
okay so um I I do think aesthetically when you have that finals gigantic logo at center court it brings that vibe it brings that ambiance that you’re looking for uh it’s nostalgic it’s it has character but if it’s and I haven’t played on I haven’t you know what I mean i haven’t played on that specific court but if it is
It was gone in It was gone in 01 there was no stickers in in 01
when No 21 yeah
there was no stickers no the stickers have been gone for a minute and if it is a sticker stick nobody likes playing on stickers um a lot of college teams play on stickers when you play in those like random tournaments in November and stuff and they are slippery like different feel different ball bounce you they might you know what I mean you’re dribbling up the court change direction like if you if you’re not attentive to where you’re on the court like it’s it’s dangerous and as big as that sticker was on that on on an NBA court and the finals court like I’m sure it was taken out for legitimate reason now the the counter to that is to create a whole new court and painted on that obviously has its own set of challenges where I also don’t think people at home understand how expensive courts are they’re hundreds of thousands of dollars I believe um we’d have to get a fact check on that
you just put one in your house
yeah well that was expensive and that is not a removable full court i’ll tell you that much i’m sure it’s hundreds of thousands of dollars um and so it just for a a paint adjustment and then you have the challenge of then storing it and then you have the challenge of this is facilities and management um in my sport admin program in college and my master’s program then you have the challenge of what do you do with it when the season’s over when the finals run is over do you stash it for maybe another finals run do you repurpose it like and that’s a tough thing to do it’s not an easy thing to do so teams usually carry try to carry maybe two courts some maybe three depending on storage and how much they want to spend on it but um
but can you explain because this was brought up and I’m sure this would be the first question of this
this is a the stick the stickers being dangerous and slippery makes total sense the discrepancy with the inseason tournament courts because people are going to be like well then why do you have a red Bulls court or you have all these different things for you know a random game at the end
completely fresh courts um I I maybe They’re repurposed and there but that’s not there’s no stickers on those they’re completely painted and so I’m sure there’s something that the league decided full on which is why I’m saying it’s probably possible for them to paint new courts and stuff like that but I I I there’s got to be something slightly different about those inseason courts where maybe they’re like recycled like they’re like and that’s why they’re painted so heavily i feel like an easy fix which is not um you know no not asking my opinion on this but something they could have done this year and they could do moving forward which would probably No you’re never going to make everyone fully happy but could change like change the dynamic a little bit
is just having the baseline treat it like the NFL where it’s like in the end zone you know they have the different um
team logos and everything and just have like the the baseline be a certain color
okay
and you know what I mean have that be because something different because they did that with in season tournament and they did it very deliberately and probably over the top but it was weird it was weird i just like like honestly speaking it’s like you go to the is it Thunder game Sunday and you’re like it’s the exact same court
yeah i’m all for game seven of the finals at the exact everything about it is exactly the same
i’m with you i’m all for making that environment feel different and I definitely think they should in some way if that’s painting the logos on uh like they used to with the sticker but actually painting it or just changing something on the baselines or just uh what is the uh comp the main complaint with the um like the broadcast impositions on the court what is the main complaint with that
with the Oh with them with them superimposing it on i think it’s I to me it’s it’s probably a little cheesy looking i think it’s probably a thing you always have to be careful with these complaints because there’s like certain people that live online that about everything and of and they’re like of course they’re going to say that because they’re like they already were not happy and so there’s nothing you could do to kind of like please them once they had their this thought in their head that you needed to have stickers you need to have whatever it is this is not going to
make it work my guess is it probably made like 85% of the people watching who weren’t really paying that close attention to begin with probably didn’t notice either way and so they saw that and they were like “Oh that’s interesting.” Those are the same people that are not complaining online because they don’t care
i think that the where they probably I don’t know a way around this but where they probably just got dinged was it was basically like it was like after a commercial break so it was like 6 minutes left in the first quarter there’s nothing there and then four minutes there is and you’re just like didn’t they change it at one point too yeah so it’s like you’re really paying attention like that does it does look a little bit like they’re figuring this out literally
in real time which is which is strange you know and and and but I also would give the you have to give the league credit like even doing the um the introduc and and some of this is also like what we don’t know the answer to is the these are conversations with the league but then also with the broadcast networks and I mean we it’s a whole different conversation we don’t have to have time to get into right now about ESPN but like they if they just like that should be on them to do this it’s like I we can’t ask the league to do everything it’s like you guys have this Yeah you’re creating a production like did you ever watch the old uh like Bob Kostas intros to like the like the games in the 90s where he did the essays he did for like college football and stuff like that too i’m like you compare that to what we have now you know and that has nothing to do with the NBA that’s network that’s not the league that’s network that’s a network being like we are going to like and I get it like they don’t have a Bob Kostas they have you know Stephen A but uh but but like but you basically are like that is that’s on them to like add the pageantry to it you have to you have to point the complaint at the right place to a certain extent and it’s like the league is responsible for like the product and they’ve done a good job with that and they listen to the players and they listen to the teams and they work with the teams and so and this is going to be really interesting because you got all these new TV partners coming in Amazon and NBC and like they’re they clearly are going to care you know so now it’s like now it’s really going to be on ESPN to be like like you people are already kind of like dumping on you for this now now you got two other people who like are going to pay attention to this like you got to get it right yep exactly
that being said we’re going to Steve Nash’s soccer game shout out to him so we will we will see you guys uh next week or so [Music]

Cam Johnson of the Brooklyn Nets returns to the show this week to discusses the Oklahoma City Thunder winning the NBA Finals, Indiana Pacer Tyrese Haliburton’s injury in Game 7, how to build championship teams moving forward, some recent trades (Jrue Holiday/Anfernee Simons, CJ McCollum/Jordan Poole), and more. Let’s go!

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Previously The Old Man and the Three w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter