Ty Jerome LEAVING Cleveland Cavaliers for Memphis Grizzlies | What’s Next for the Wine and Gold?
Well, we’re coming on during uh in the midst of some pretty big breaking news in the Eastern Conference. But in the meantime, we know the big news around the Cavs the last couple days is that Tai Jerome will not be back in 2025. What does it all mean for the Cavs moving forward and for the rest of the offseason? We’ll talk about it coming up next on the Courtside with the Cavs on SI podcast. Thanks for jumping on with us here at the courtside with the Cavs on SI podcast. Spencer German, Spencer Davies, of course, your co-host here. And uh as I said, Spence, I know we sort of mapped out what we were going to talk about. I I thought, man, maybe we’ll save this for the end, but I actually think we should start with it because it is a pretty damn big deal. Miles Turner headed to the Milwaukee Bucks on a new contract. Sounds like from Sham’s reporting, he had said he wanted to stay in Indiana. He made that very clear. But Indiana is trying to sort of duck the the tax because they know they’re not going to be as competitive next year without Tyreek Sallebertton. And so they chose not to retain Miles Turner, which is an interesting decision from them. Also, I think there’s dynamics here. Yes, the Pacers may be out of that picture, at least for the short term, but um I also think there’s an interesting thing here where we talked about the East being so wide open, but now the Bucks seem like they’re right back in the conversation with this move. So, just your initial thoughts on on what’s obviously a pretty big um a pretty big changing of teams here for a key player from the team that obviously was representing the Eastern Conference in the in the NBA finals.
It’s amazing the difference that two, three weeks makes and what your trajectory is. That that is just a complete shocker to me. Completely out of left field. Miles Turner going to the Pacers rival, too, by the way. Let’s not forget that. That’s even crazier to me. Not just that he signed for that amount or is going to another team, but that particular team. And that’s obviously an indicator that Giannis is probably back in Milwaukee. They get back Torian Prince. They get back Gary Trent Jr. They’re figuring out their off seasonason. And all of a sudden, hey, no one’s talking about Milwaukee for a couple weeks and they’re right back into the saddle in what again you just referred to as an open Eastern Conference. Did not expect to be talking about this this morning. Uh, and um, pretty crazy. And then you look at the other stuff around the league.
Jay Hogus Alexander getting $285 million uh, on his extension after a championship win. You you’ve got some u some some fireworks to start day two of free agency.
Yeah. Yeah, and I was going to say the other the followup here from Shams actually that just came down like as we were starting the show is that the Bucks also are waving Damen Lillard and they’re stretching the remaining amount of his 113 million on his contract over the course of uh the next couple seasons, the next couple years I guess um to essentially give themselves the cap flexibility to uh sign Miles Turner and bring him in as a a a a sidekick to Giannis. This is I mean this is in obviously Dame Dame’s gonna be out most of next season with the the Achilles injury anyway, but some teams gonna get a chance to sort of scoop him up and potentially play him in some capacity. Um it’s an interesting decision. Um but it makes some sense. My first thought with like the the stretching the money out over the over a couple years thing, it feels like a very NFL thing to do. That’s what they do in the NFL is they like kick the can down the road with these this these contracts. But yeah, a big sort of land um a landscape shifting day for the Milwaukee Bucks with these these two moves that have just come down here as we were getting going. So
yeah. Yeah, just uh wild. Wild to look at. Wild to hear about and react to. And I’m glad we’re recording during this because you’re getting our initial and actual reactions to this.
I think with Damian, the writing was on the wall probably just because of the injury and the age. It sucks. It’s a cutthroat. they they had to probably do something with that. And um now you’re you’re putting yourself right back into the driver’s seat, so to speak. Figure out what you’re going to do at point guard. I’m sure that AJ Green’s responsibilities will increase and we’ll see more ball handling, you know, from maybe younger guys, but that is that’s a bombshell. That’s a bombshell start to the day, no doubt. Uh, Yumano_2 says Miami will probably pick up Dame now, right? I would assume.
Even if even if so, like like he’s hurt. He’s not going to be playing for a long time, guys. Like,
he’ll probably will play in the in the regular season at some point, maybe in like April,
but it’s it’s not that easy.
Achilles Achilles are not anything to deal with or mess with.
I would assume because of the connections with Damon Miami previously, that’s that’s a likely destination for him. Um, again to your point, he probably won’t play most of next year. It’ll kind This This will sort of be I know Pat Riley actually is catching a lot of heat in my no pun intended in Miami. Um, I really didn’t mean it like that. It just came out that way. I swear. Um, he he’s I know he’s sort of been the the criticized over the last couple years from missing on like those big fish trade assets that have been out there, KD, etc. Um, so I’m sure as like a hey an ode to the fans, they’ll throw him a bone and be like, “Hey, let’s get Dame in here and see what he can do when he comes back from this Achilles injury.” But obviously, we don’t even know if it’ll be like the exact same player. I do feel for Dame. Um, guy who very much like rallied against his entire career, the ring culture idea and saying like he was happy where he was and then he finally sort of gave into it and said like, “All right, fine. I’ll go chase championships.” And it stinks that his two years in Milwaukee end this way. Um cuz I thought when they teamed up like there was a chance Dame could still play at a high level and be a nice sidekick to Giannis and they could go do some things but it just didn’t work out that way. So I guess the the the last thing on on this specifically before we get to the Tai Jerome stuff and what all this means for the Cavs. How much like adding Miles Turner as you sort of think about the hierarchy of the Eastern Conference now Spence and a and a Bucks team that like you said they still have to figure out the point guard spot. Um, where do you think they sort of fall now in this in in this Eastern Conference that again does still feel like it’s pretty wide open in the grand scheme of things, but there’s some changing of the guard here, some shifting in the power, if you will, with the with the Bucks making a move like this.
Uh, yeah, I think they still have to figure out who’s going to run the offense, too. I know that you’ve got Giannis who’s obviously unequivocally the most powerful, strongest, long willed. Like, he is incredible. Like, let let’s not forget that. But you do need someone to help him, you know? You need someone to to help him organize an offense. And that’s going to be the word that I use a lot, too, when we talk about Tai Jerome and what the Cavs have going on. But, there are some free agents out there. What if Chris Paul is the guy? What what if they what if they lean towards Chris Paul? You know, like what if um you know, uh a reunion with Malcolm Brogden? You know, I’m I’m looking at some of these free agents, you know, point guard wise, and it’s probably going to be a very low pool because the let’s be honest, the free agency pool is pretty, you know, um mid-levelish. It’s over.
Yeah, exactly. So,
we’ll figure it out. Russell Westbrook’s still there. I don’t know if you want Russell Westbrook running your offense as a starter for an entire year nowadays, but uh just looking at who’s available, um I’m don’t know how much money the Bucks have left, thinking off the top of my head, and it’s pretty crazy to me that you can wave and stretch a $113 million uh amount over five years. That’s that’s a lot of money. Um and it’ll still be on the books. Uh, so that’s interesting. Um, someone just had a great comment on Twitter that it’s the NBA’s version of Bobby Bonia on Bobby Bonia day, by the way. So that’s pretty crazy.
Bobby Bonia day, by the way. Yeah.
Yeah, that that’s pretty nice.
That’s pretty funny, actually.
But but yeah, I’m not sure who’s going to be their point guard, but I’m sure that that’s something they thought about. I’m sure that’s something they thought about when they made this move. A lot of these moves do happen with other things in mind, which
oh no doubt
probably should segue us into the Cavs because maybe that’s the case too.
Yeah. Well, and I think that is a perfect segue. We’ll see how that all sorts out with the Bucks. I would agree with you. Probably have to see what they do to sort of fill out the rest of that starting five, especially the point guard spot before we like really classify them in any sort of way. But certainly we’re, you know, it’s the it’s the eyeball emoji right now. We’re all we’re all like, “Okay, they did something now. What’s going to happen from here?” So, we’ll see what all this looks like. But yes, a perfect segue because we know that the the the Cavs when we last jumped on, the Cavs had just traded on Sunday for um Lonzo Ball, trading a Coral for Lonzo Ball straight up. And we obviously dissected the move and talked about what it meant and obviously hit hit on the fact that if Ball stays healthy, we think this is a good trade for them. We also did say like this is an interesting development in terms of the Tai Jerome conversation. And then wouldn’t you know, a couple hours later, the team signed Sam Merrill to an extension, giving him over $9 million per year. um as he sticks around as a sharpshooter on this team who I think by the way I don’t know how much went into this uh based off the playoff performances but I thought Sam and I know we talked about it in a bunch of our postgame Spence I thought Sam looked really good in the postseason especially from like a defensive standpoint like he kind of held his own and I wondered if that sort of factored into the decision ultimately to be like hey we’re going to pay Sam and keep him around we we think his three-point shooting and the defense he can play is valuable um and and I think after we saw that move happened though, Spence, we both kind of understood, okay, this probably spells the end for Ty Jerome. And then that came to fruition yesterday when he officially signed a deal with the the Memphis Grizzlies going there. And he signed for less than Sam Errol signed, which was kind of interesting because there was so much talk about would they go into the tax? Would they go even or sorry, would they go deeper into the tax? Would they give Ty Jerome the 14 million and the early bird rights money that they could give him to keep him around? And it turned out that that wasn’t the case. But I think like I I think you and I have talked a little bit about like what actually went on behind the scenes here and how this all sort of played out and and I think it’s easy to kind of see where the Cat’s heads were at with it as they try to make the the moves that they actually can make given the restrictions that they they’re sort of dealing with given the second given being a second apron team.
Yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough to really grasp the fact that they did pay more to Sam for me at least. No matter how much you like him, no matter how much you like him, no matter how much Kenny Atinson likes him, I’m sure that that played a huge role in this, they were probably expecting, and I know that Ty Jerome’s side was expecting them to make more like non- taxpayer mid-level exception money. Ty did not get that. Ty got nineish, right? I don’t know what the math is. 28 28 million on three years, whatever that is. It’s somewhere close to nine. 9.2. too. I don’t know. But I think that was kind of maybe overplaying their hand on Tai’s side, but I also think the Cavs also might have waited too long. And I don’t know what the dynamics there were. Couldn’t really get too much on that side. What what led to that decision? What led to one or the other before free agency started. I know that they were completely in the unknown and what was going to happen with both of them. And you know, the initial consensus was hopefully we can get back one. And they did. And I think they value Sam more on this roster, right or wrong. And that’s a Kenny Atinson thing. For me, I think with with Ty Jerome, when you look at what the number ended up being, that might bite you. That might bite you. They’re going to be leaning a lot on Lonzo Ball to stay healthy. Yeah. Yeah, a guy who’s played 70 games in the last four seasons to stay healthy. That is a risk. We know what the talent level is. We know how good he is defensively. We know he’s a ball mover, but that’s a risk. It’s also a risk even though we predicted this at the end of the season after Kobe’s press conference that they’re going to look to CPJ and they’re going to look to Jaylen Tyson to play these minutes. Tyrese Proctctor might even get a look to try and not replace, but to try and fill the void of what Tai Jerome leaves, which is, you know, a microwave scorer
and somebody who can really get that engine going off the off the bench because now you’re kind of missing what Tai brought in that sense. So, um, it’s going to be by committee in my opinion. And, um, I think that they took a misstep. I also think that Ty Jerome’s camp and his agency might have taken a misstep too, but I don’t know what the dynamics behind the scenes were between those two and what the interest was, but Ty Jerome posted on Instagram and put a smiley face. So, he’s happy he’s going to end up in Memphis. And I was told that the Grizzlies have liked him for years. And my sense is that with this free agency that the Cavs couldn’t sign everyone. So that is um it’s tough it’s a tough one to to to take in.
I agree on basically everything you said. It it was shocking he didn’t get the number he was probably expecting. That was my initial thought when I saw the number was like they had to have thought like there must have been conversations between the two sides where it was like hey we think we’re getting this and it just never came to fruition that way. And so that’s what led ultimately to that to the the separation here. I think your your point is sound on you can’t pay everybody. Um I I think the hardest pill to swallow though was just like you you had somebody in Tai who was a sixman of the year candidate who on that second unit was a an an elite presence for that group and and really like the spark of that group. And now you’re kind of left wondering like okay what is that second unit going to look like? Especially like you said, if you’re if you’re if you’re hoping or banking on, well, Lonzo Ball is going to be our second unit guy. Well, he has to stay healthy first. And so that’s where I think and I understand why Cavs fans are struggling with this is they sit and and talk about this team. They sit and look at this team, you know, from, you know, four weeks ago to now. And they’re like, well, hey, what is the team going to look like next year? And um now now you realize Tai Rome’s not there. I get why there’s a lot of people wondering, are we worse than we were, you know, even a month ago when we thought Ty Jerome was still potentially going to be on this roster? Because I think that’s a valid question. Like Tai Tai did offer so much to this team. It does feel like to to what going off what you said, Spence, that that Kenny Atinson like trusts like his system will help essentially produce a player that that can do what Tai did even if it’s not Tai Jerome and that they think Ball can be that guy. And listen, Ball Ball when healthy, I think has shown like he’s been a he can tout that at this point in his career, he’s been more consistent than Tai when it come when he’s when he’s healthy. Like he has been a reliable player in this league even more so than Tai has proven he can be um for for a longer period of time. So I I think there’s some fairness in that. Um but again, you’re you’re really sort of leaning on will he stay healthy? And so I get where people are looking and being like, well, our second unit might be worse now. Now, there’s other things that have to happen like DeAndre Hunter if he goes to the starting lineup, maybe Max Stru moves to your second unit, maybe that helps things. We’ll see. Um, but I understand where those sentiments are coming from. I guess like do do you feel Spence that I mean and maybe I I know I know how you are with this these types of questions so I maybe it’s not going to be like a fair thing to answer right now till we like really see what all the concoctions of lineups look like and rotations but it I do you sort of feel right now that the Cavs are better or worse than they maybe were with Tai Jerome this past season just on like the surface
on the surface worse. I’m okay answering that. I think that’s clear. You lose somebody that had that kind of production.
He actually played less than 20 minutes per game and had in just ridiculous per 36 numbers. Yeah.
And he was a 50 4090 type of guy. I don’t think he’s going to replicate that. It’s really hard to shoot that well. And I think I said that on one of our podcasts a few a couple months ago or a month ago, whatever. I’m losing track of time. But it’s really hard to do that again and have the success on the floaters that he had again and shoot the way he did again. But it doesn’t mean he can’t come close to it. And it doesn’t mean that he just loses that part of his game. I think what might have turned the Cavs off was maybe the fact that he didn’t have the defensive acumen that they thought and maybe that he wasn’t able to laterally keep up with guys like Andrew Nemhard and Aaron Nesmith. That’s just complete speculation. That’s not anything from talking to anybody. But it it’s clear though that the pros outweighed the cons. And I know that he got outplayed and played out of the rotation in that Indiana series, but I don’t think they would make that big of a knee-jerk reaction of a move, but it’s just it’s unlike the Cavs to to think, all right, you know, small sample size, this is who this person is.
Um,
well, and it’s tough. That was going to be my next part of this because I I do feel, listen, I know Sam Merrill didn’t shoot amazing in that Pacers series, but I think defensively he stepped up and and we pointed that out like on numerous occasions we pointed out that like he was hanging with guys. He was trying to make other plays even when the shots weren’t falling for him. I don’t know, man. Like I have to think that the playoff performances there did weigh maybe not heavily, maybe not like that was the end all beall cuz like this organization, we’ve talked about it with Kobe, they are not really ones to like you said make the knee-jerk reaction or like jump to something and and and draw a conclusion from like a couple game sample size, right? So, I’m not saying it was the end- all beall, but I do wonder if they they saw how that series played out, saw how Tai maybe got played out of certain situations and just could not hang with certain guys on that Pacers team that they they’re they’re chasing, I guess, the image of the Pacers and how they play. But obviously, we know the Pacers are going to take a step back this year just by nature of the injury to Hallebertton and now I know Miles Turner. But like I I can’t help but one like think that that at least the playoff performances there played a a smaller role or were part of the the the math here when they were adding this all together and figuring out who we going to pay, who we not going to pay on top of the other stuff we talked about of like they probably assumed Tai was going to get more money than they were willing to give him and as it turned out he didn’t. So I I think it was all sort of part of the same bucket of a conversation that they must have had about where to go from here and who to pay and who not. But I I have to think the playoff performance at least factored in a little bit here because yeah, you can tout the regular season and he was brilliant. But I do understand where you you know we’ve we’ve sat here on this podcast and talked about how like Ja at times got played out of that series and he’s gotten played out of other series in the playoffs like which is part of the reason why we said like if you’re going to break up the core for he’s the guy you look at etc etc. So if if we’re sitting here talking about it there’s no way in that room like they’re not talking about guys and matchups and how they fit certain things they want to do. And I also just think Kenny Atinson has a lot of confidence that he can find somebody that can do something similar likely Lonzo Ball um you know next year if he can stay healthy.
And while you were talking I actually was kind of thinking back to how Kenny Atinson talked about Ty Jerome and this is in no way saying he was disrespectful of him or anything like that.
No,
but do you remember him saying like we’re just kind of waiting for him to slow down like throughout the season? Like, so maybe there just like wasn’t a belief in the longevity,
like a like lightning in the bottle type thing. Yeah.
Like the way that he talked about if you go back to listening to how Kenny talked and I don’t know how this would make Tai feel one way or another, but like it just sounded like he’s like this is incredible. Like I can’t believe you know this is happening and I’m so glad it is and all that stuff. And he was speaking so very very in favor of Tai. But it also kind of felt like Kenny was like, “We’re just waiting for this to slow down. Is this a is this a mirage?” Like, you know, like, and um I don’t know, maybe that played into it, too. But real quick, I did want to go into this because I think a lot of people and I want to clear the air and kind of explain when you see a lot of these guys signing for 7 million a year, 10 million a year, 11 million a year that are in Tai’s position or in his what you would consider his tier. Remember that the Cavs could only offer what they could offer was the the 14 million and up, right? Um, but these other free agents that they didn’t have bird rights to. So they had bird rights, they had early bird rights on on Tai Jerome, they had bird rights on Sam Merrill, they did not have the bird rights to these guys who were unrestricted in free agency. And I think a lot of people see the amount of money that say, you know, Taius Jones signs for $7 million uh with the Orlando Magic, right? Uh Luke Canard gets a one one year million deal with um the the Hawks. uh you you see a lot of these deals um you know even someone like Lorravia going to the Lakers for uh two years 12 mill so that’s six million AAV um a lot of these guys were available yes but the Cavs were restricted in what they could do with their money outside of the two free agents that they had. So keep that in mind too when it comes to what’s available out there. They are only able to offer the minimum, the veteran minimum contract. And you see that the big men are sliding off the board like crazy. You’re not going to find many that can take the minimum that you want. So, they’re kind of painted into a corner in that sense. You can try to figure out a trade that you can do one for one or find one that gets you under the apron, which is pretty much damn near impossible. But the the big man stuff cuz I’ve been in text threads with a lot of friends. I’ve been in, you know, like figuring out who fits the best. Like I keep coming back to they’re probably going to bring back Tristan Thompson and they’re probably going to end up bringing somebody in who’d be like another, you know,
smaller range bigs, I guess. I don’t know. Or maybe they’re still figuring out their two-way situation, too. Like they have they have they have some loose ends to tie up. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. Um, yeah. No, I I I think I think the backup big spot still remains a a key um area they need to address. Um I listen ultimately to put a bow on the Tai Jerome conversation like I do agree with you that sitting here today I I would say they’re a worse team because we have so many we it’s just an like it’s a big big question mark with Lonzo Ball. I I think if Lonzo stays healthy, I think you can you can push back on that. if Lonzo doesn’t stay healthy or you assuming it’s the Lonzo who’s played 70 games in two seasons now, um I’m like, yeah, I think they’re I think they’re not as good of a team right now. But, um listen, I I’m I’m willing to see it through. I think they and and we both liked the Lonzo deal when it was made on Sunday. We talked about that on the last pod. Um I do think to your point, there probably is a little bit of a lightning in a bottle thing here where they’re like, we just don’t know if Tai’s going to be able to replicate this like season after season after season. And so I I think that was probably a fact. There’s always everyone always wants there to be like one clear-cut answer as to why something didn’t happen. It’s it’s never that simple, right? There there’s always money involved. There’s always the the player having certain things they’re looking for, the team having certain things they’re looking for. Um there’s like fit, there’s style, there’s other moves you’re trying to make. Like you said, they’re thinking about these. They’re like it’s like a chess game. They’re thinking like three, four, five moves ahead on a lot of these things. like, well, hey, if we go trade for this guy, maybe we can do this with that guy. Like, there’s always a lot that goes into it. Um, do I feel do I love that Tai Drum is in here? No. Like, I I thought that throughout the season, he proved like he’s a valuable asset, and we had had multiple conversations uh during it during the season, but as it was kind of winding down, you and I had talked a lot about, you know, off air, not not in front of a microphone about, well, hey, do you think Ty Jerome would come back? And we both kind of said that we thought he would, and it just didn’t work out that way. So, this close to the door on that. You’re moving forward with with with the other guys here. I think they’re again really banking on ball and I do think there’s some interesting conversations to be had about like other areas that they need to address. Do I I want to ask her thoughts on Al Horford because I’ve been getting people people have been texting me like how do you feel about Al Horford? And my thing is somebody was saying they don’t they’ve heard he’s not like the best locker room guy, but I don’t have you ever heard that because I don’t know that I’ve ever heard that. I’ve always heard like Al Horford generally gets uh like is is generally a pretty good I mean he’s stick he’s stuck in in in Boston for so long and he just kind of feels like one of those players at this point who’s like old reliable. I also think the fact that he can stretch the floor better than Jarrett can like I I like that that part of his game. Um and I don’t know like to me if I’m thinking of like a big that that makes a lot of sense for this team in a backup role because we’re assuming they’re going to use Evan Moley at the five a lot more. They’re going to use Jarrett at the five of course and then you’re going to you’re just trying to find somebody who can place some of those minutes for you when maybe you’re moving Evan around to do different things. I think somebody like Al Horford actually makes a lot of sense if they were able to bring him in on the vet minimum.
Most definitely. He can stretch the floor. He’s obviously able to defend very well still and um he’s a champion. So what what more can you ask for?
That is Spence. How much how many times do we get on this pod and talk about and play and people in the comments we see the comments we know people in the comments are like hey we need people with playoff experience we need those tough guy Al Horford is that I know that Tristan Thompson used to take his lunch during the playoffs back in the day but Al Horford is the guy that has that playoff pedigree that you’re looking for I 100% agree
yeah no it’s it’s it’s just championship pedigree and you know Tristan Thompson has it too and yeah Tristan’s probably going to be back I would say damn near luck to be back. Uh but it’s it’s different when you have guys that have gone through it and that’s why you know that’s why Max Strus was one of the Cavs best players in the postseason because he’s been through that gauntlet too. He hasn’t won it but he’s been through but yeah
you know what I’m saying. Yes, game five that was unfortunate to happen.
He needed a better performance after sending that text to the group chat but yeah it was most definitely no I agree with you there. I agree with you that. But all the ones before that
first. No, no, no. You know, I agree. You know, I agree. I Max I think changed his I think you and I understood how important Max was to this team. I think fans of this team that were sort of like why is Max Drew still in the starting lineup like I think you saw why in for the majority of that playoff row why he was like he brought he just brings this different energy. he that you talk about playoff pedigree, you talk about like having been there, he brings all that to the table. Um there’s enough meat on that bone where I’m like I I understand why Max Juice is part of this team. So, um yeah, I have no qualms about that. But to to your point to the point like yeah, somebody like Al Horford to me actually I think makes a ton of sense if if he’s willing to sign up to come to Cleveland. I I would 100% take that that guy in a
I think so too. And the only thing that stopped that he’s got a lot of suitors. A lot of the contending teams want him. I think Golden State was the hot name that was reported this morning by Mark Stein. So, you know, and um there’s just uh it’s really tough when you’re in a competition with with teams like that. But it just depends on how you’re viewed, what the lens is on your team. Does that second round exit make anybody more hesitant to sign with you on a Vetmin? Like that’s the other thing you have to think about. And I have if you if you give me uh a second I have a little bit more on the Tai Jerome stuff if that’s okay. Um,
for me with Tai, as I was saying, it’s hard to replace that scoring element. So, for me, I think that Lonzo absolutely can he might be a better playmaker. In fact, he is a better playmaker. Obvious absolutely. Um, so that portion will be okay. He can run a second unit.
Yeah.
But can they get a guy to come in or can they by committee replace that that surge that Tai brought? I think that’s the big question mark and I think we’ll get to the comments because that’s a good kind of way to get back into the conversation because it’s a lot to ask of a Craig Porter Jr. or a Jaylen Tyson to come in. Okay, you’ve averaged this amount your entire career and now you have to up it by this much, right? And um got to be able to have ball handlers and you got it if you’re you’re really kind of strapped if Lonzo’s not available. you’re down to CPJ and you’re down to Proctor and you’re potentially looking at, you know, maybe DG runs with the twos in certain situations. And I saw the the comment by Umano that makes a lot of sense too about Evan Mobley handling the ball, but do you want him to do that the entirety of a game? Like that’s the thing that you really going to miss with Tai Jerome. So, I don’t want anyone to undersell Tai’s value to what this team was this year. I know that it might be tough to replicate that kind of season, but in general, his skill set and what his abilities are and to be able to get inside and and make all those floaters and to to hit those threes in transition, the walk up threes, and to just ignite this team, you’re going to miss that and you’re going to need someone to try to at least replicate it, which you’re not going to probably do it with one one player So that’s going to be difficult.
Sam’s going to be looked at heavily on uh with that as well because of the contract he signed because the fact that they did choose him over Tai. Uh we haven’t talked about the elephant in the room at all, Spence. I don’t really want to spend a lot of time on this because we we have we have completely avoided it and I feel like we would be doing a disservice if we didn’t at least bring it up. But can we just put a kaibos on the LeBron to Cleveland stuff cuz cuz I have so many thoughts on this like so many and I don’t want to waste time doing all this but the the two the two things the two things first of all to acquire LeBron James at his salary number it would take literally ripping this team apart you’d have to include like um DeAndre Hunter you’d have to throw like DG in there like you you would literally tear this team apart and you wouldn’t talk about like not having depth like you would lose a lot of your depth to get to get to the point because you also have to get under the second apron you have to remember too. So there’s just a lot to consider there and I don’t think that you should do that but the and here’s the other thing I know that Dan Gilbert and LeBron reconciled things when they when he came back and then they win the title in 16. But do you really think that the first taste of success that Dan Gilbert gets with like actually building a team the right way through the draft, all those things, he’s got this team that’s like on the brink of something special? You really think his his move to put them over the top is going to be go run and cry back to LeBron and be like, “Hey, come on back and rescue me. Come on.” Like, no. He wants to prove that he did this differently. I’m not saying that him and LeBron still have bad blood. That’s not my point. I’m just saying I think he’s let that ship sort of sail now. They won their title together. I think he wants to do it without him. And so I don’t like there’s no chance that they would ever like maybe no I shouldn’t say no chance ever because there’s always going to be links between LeBron and Cleveland because it’s it’s LeBron and it’s it’s where he played and it’s his hometown. I get it. Well, Northeast Ohio is his hometown. But um but at the same time like I I just think it’s it’s utterly ridiculous that we always like point back to hey this is the guy that needs to save the the franchise. And I get it. He’s polarizing. I get it. I just think at this stage of his career as a rental, it just does not make sense because he might he might retire after next year. Like you’re gonna you’re gonna blow up your team and like lose all your depth for one maybe two years of LeBron just to see like if you can actually get over that championship hump when your team already feels like they’re in good position to potentially get over that championship hump anyway. It just doesn’t make sense. So that’s that’s where I’ll leave that. I know you got some thoughts and then we’ll work on getting out of here. I wish that we would have brought this up two days ago because that’s when I was really just passionate about it and I was on Twitter.
You were texting more than I know.
It was in a very respectful manner. I was responding to people just like you know 52 million. You have to find a way one to get off all that salary before you even think about making a move because you can’t do it with the second apron. You can’t aggregate players. So you have to figure out how to move off of those guys. And then you just think about all the guys that you spent years and years developing and they’re right on the cusp. I know that they lost in the second round of the playoffs. I get it. But you’re just turning in all that work and all of the progress they’ve made first year with Kenny Atinson. You’re still not even close to what their peak is at. And you’re gonna give all that up for possibly one year of a guy who is still the best player in the world. I don’t care. Mentally, he’s still a physical monster. He’s obviously gotten a better jumper over time as as athleticism has started to go down. But it’s just time to move on. There is a code. There is I’m gonna let you laugh because I I want I want this straight at the camera. There is a codependency in this town with LeBron James that just needs to to dissipate. It’s insane to me how at every turn. And they associate it too because they’re like, “Oh, 2016 that was LeBron, so that’s the same LeBron who’s in 2025. That’s how the simple that’s how the simple mind works.” But it’s just not that way anymore. I don’t I don’t see that LeBron still being that LeBron. I don’t know. He takes incredible care of his body. It’s just if they’re not willing to give up certain players for Kevin Durant. I don’t know. And and I think it would be bad business for all teams too across the league to to give up all of that for $52 million salary. That’s literally a fourth of a team’s pay payroll.
Yeah.
A fourth of a team’s payroll for an unknown. You can keep it as an unknown because there’s that. You look at how much pressure that brings along. You want to think that the Cavs are under pressure now. LeBron James comes into the locker room that increases tenfold. Yeah.
On the external stuff. And then I think from a playing perspective, the Cavs would have to completely retool their entire roster. LeBron only plays with a certain type of archetype. You need to be able to be ready to catch the ball on the perimeter and you need to be able to shoot. I saw Mike Miller and Kyle Corver have a really tough time adjusting to that for half a season.
It is not easy to pay play with LeBron in that sense. And I’m not saying he’s a bad teammate or he’s a bad um he’s one of the most unselfish players there is. Yeah.
But it is a huge adjustment because
you got to surround LeBron with four shooters. Yeah.
And I don’t know if the Cavs have all of those shooters right now to play with him. So, I know I’m going kind of on a
Especially if they had to give up DeAndre Hunter to get him, but yeah.
Well, yeah. Exactly. And you would you the wing that you were looking for, you would be giving away and then you’d have no future solutions. And I I think people are starting to panic because the CBA is only allowing teams to compete for two to three years max. And I get that. But you can still if you’re keeping your team together and there is a way I think to navigate this and teams just haven’t figured it out yet, but they will. I know that the Celtics are losing their squad and that’s a shame. They have all that stuff happening and then they have the injury to to Tatum. That sucks. Um there are teams that are looking to avoid that that tax penalty. Like for example, I don’t think the Tai Jerome thing was to avoid the tax penalty. I just think it was a miscalculation on both ends. Yeah, I agree.
Uh you go back to that. I I just think that a lot of these teams are kind of in panic mode and then everyone there is a new champion every year right now. There is every team can compete. You see that the Rockets are going all in. Literally all in. The Rockets are 10 toes into the water right now. And I’m on paper it looks great. I need to see it. I need to see it. I know how much talent is on that team. They should concept
for all intents and purposes win at all. But I need to see it
on paper. On paper is not a thing anymore, guys. Like you need
Yeah,
you you need widespread depth. And they have widespread death, by the way. They still need to get a bit a little bit better um behind their starting guards, I think. But they they’ve got a good team. I’m I’m looking forward to seeing how it looks, but you don’t win championships in July. You don’t. So, you have to see it on you have to see it on the floor. You have to see it all that stuff. That ties it all back into the conversation with LeBron. It just you would have to really gut everything. You would have to gut it.
Yeah.
And um
Well,
it’s just it’d be it’d be like a band-aid. It’d be like a band-aid for in a completely open wound that needs stitches.
Well, and and the two teams we just saw play for the NBA Finals showed you like it’s not about just like having the best player and like, you know, it’s the big three error is dead, right? like th those two teams are so deep, that’s what you need to win titles these days. And trading for LeBron, I think, would just derail where this roster’s at. Again, I as much as I’ve said like, yeah, they need to add some playoff caliber players and guys who have been there. And I can understand making changes, whether it’s trading JA to get some pieces back or, you know, even Darius on some like I I can understand and wrap my head around those things. adding LeBron, I think, changes too much. Even if it’s LeBron, I I get it. I I don’t want to be disrespectful to LeBron, but I I just it doesn’t make sense for where you’re at right now, frankly. And I I think that’s the biggest thing I want to get across, and I think we both got that across. Uh, real quick, Spence, before we get out of here, scale of 1 to 10, how much are you going to miss the play Ammani Bates conversation? Listen, I I wish Ammani nothing but the best. He is a tireless worker behind the scenes. I got in an argument with somebody on Twitter about this yesterday. tireless worker behind the scenes. That guy is always, always, always in the gym. He definitely has a lot of talent. There is no question about that. He’s just got to find the right spot, find the right opportunity. And I think he will. Nose to the grindstone. That’s what I told him. It’s just you got to keep your, you know, your your head down and keep going. He’s so young yet he is got his head in the right place. It’s just about finding the fit for him. And um you know I wish him nothing but the best and hopefully he lands somewhere where he gets an opportunity and then we’ll be able to see. We’ll be able to see and and you know kind of um put it to the test. But nothing but good things to say about Ammani Bates. It’s just one of those things where there were too many players ahead of him and it was a numbers game. Too many cooks in the kitchen. That’s I think all it ultimately was and you know best of luck to him going forward. Agreed. That’s well said. Um, yeah. You know, Cass fans though, if he goes somewhere and balls, they’re never gonna let the co Yman hear the end of it. So, no, I get that. I Hey, listen. I I can level with them on this. He really never got an opportunity. I don’t know if he would have last year because he was drafted under the Bicker Staff regime. So, I I shouldn’t say regime because Kobe and Mike were still in charge, but he was under the the Baker bigger staff coaching staff. So, I don’t know if there was a disconnect there, if it was the injury last year because remember he had to clean up something in his knee and he didn’t get started in the G-League until wintertime. So, that might have put him behind the eightball. But, Kenny has said it himself, there’s a place for Armani in this league.
And I think I’ll take the word of an NBA coach and people I’ve talked to around the GLeague more than I will somebody on Twitter. And I’m not trying to say that as an elitist. I’m just
your opinion versus their opinion. I’m taking their opinion. Sorry.
And I do think if he was going to play, it would have had to be How many times do we look at the JB Pickerstaff teams and be like, man, they just need options. Like they need players. Like that would have been the time to get to get those reps with this. Like I I have no qualms about like looking back on this team and being like, why didn’t Ammani Bates play? Well, there are a lot of bodies ahead of him that were contributing to a team that won 64 games. So, I’m not going to sit here and like cry over spilled milk in that way. But I agree that in in the Bicker Staff time frame, if he had come up, it would have been nice to see what he could sort of bring to the table when you didn’t have a lot of other options. But anyway, we are out of time um on a tighter schedule today. Otherwise, we would probably do more of the comments. But I think we talked about enough of them. Like Yumano talking about Tai and the ball.
You can pop them in real quick. Like we don’t have to talk about him, but at least give him the shine. The beast grills saying the Bucks are going all in by signing miles. I think we agree. He also said the East is about to be wide open. Our guy Anthony Meglin talking about Craig Porter Jr. When Spence talked about Craig Porter Jr., Terresa Reeves says Damen’s retired. I don’t I don’t think he’s announced that officially. I don’t I think it’s he just got bought out or waved and they’re extend they’re moving the contract money around, but um I don’t believe he’s retired. Maybe that’ll happen as a as a recourse of this, but I don’t think that’s happened yet. Um anyway, we always appreciate those of you who jump in and try to be part of the conversation. I you know, we try to bring your comments to the conversation every single week, every single episode. Uh, we’re going to be on a little bit of a uh a little bit of a hiatus. I’m on vacation for the next week or so. Spence is going to be out in summer league. So, the plan is once Spence is maybe, you know, the last day he’s out there or something or whatever, we’ll try to connect and just get a lay of the land on what was going on at summer league and whatnot. So, we look forward to that for sure. But, in the meantime, we encourage you as always, follow along with all things Cleveland Cavaliers. Head on over to Cavaliers onSi, our website, si.com/mbba/cavaliers. And of course, right here at the YouTube channel where many of you are watching this right now, please subscribe. We appreciate your support as always. We continue to pump out this this podcast because we know there are people who are enjoying it and and we appreciate the feedback you guys provide and we try to bring this thing at least once a week to you. We’ve had a couple we’ve had a week with multiple episodes now because of so much going on. So, we’re we hope we hope this gives you some content to sort of lean into for a little bit here. Uh we know it’s summer, the dog days of summer, but we’ll certainly keep it rolling throughout the rest of the summer once uh things kind of settle down here. So, thanks again for watching for Spencer. I’m Spencer German and keep on following along with all things Cleveland Cavaliers with the Cleveland Cavaliers on SI and of course this podcast courtside with the Cavs on SI.
The Cleveland Cavaliers opted to prioritize a series of other moves over the weekend instead of attempting to retain Ty Jerome. Several days later the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year candidate found a new home with the Memphis Grizzlies.
What led to the Cavs accepting Jerome’s fate, while attending to other offseason needs instead? What will the Cavaliers rotation look like without Jerome? Are there any other offseason moves looming for the wine and gold?
Spencer German and Spencer Davies break down the latest Cavaliers news as the new league year begins on Courtside with the Cavs on SI.
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