NBA Offseason Reactions + Draft Class GOAT Debate | ALL NBA PODCAST

NBA Offseason Reactions + Draft Class GOAT Debate | ALL NBA PODCAST

[Music] stop [Music] i got you what is up everybody and welcome to the AllNBA Show powered by FanDuel America’s number one sports book get started with 150 and bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet at fandol.com/allna hey I’m your host Adam Mes live from the DNVR studio and I’m joined by my esteemed colleague in his new undisclosed location Tim Legler legs how you doing
what’s up man i’m good i’m good first uh first taste of this I guess since like the finals ended huh so we’re able to I I had a little couple days I needed to uh just recalibrate my my life and now I’m back and we’ve got a couple days of draft under our belt we’ve got free agency around the corner so it’s an interesting time in the league the league really doesn’t have an offseason Adam at all as you know
yeah it does not and we just got the summer league schedule today which is exciting we’re going to have some uh summer league basketball two weeks from yesterday so that’s right around the corner free agency all that stuff going on but legs since we last talked there have been some very interesting developments namely the NBA draft and some interesting trades that happened around them that’s really what I want to talk to you about because we did a draft recap yesterday with Will Gotautle Mark Stein but I want to ask you about some of what I perceive to be the big storylines and I’m going to start with the Phoenix Suns who traded picked up two centers one in the draft in Malawak and the other one they picked up and trade Mark Williams who they acquired for Vasameich the number 29 pick who turned into Liam McNeely and the 2029 firstrounder next year bunch of like stipulations on that one next year it’s likely to be a bottom seven pick but two late first rounders to acquire their center of the present which would be Mark Williams what do you make of this trade and more importantly what do you make of the Phoenix Suns now that they’ve made these moves with Kevin Durant going out bringing Mark Williams in just what do you make of all of it yeah look I think that you know the massive changes obviously you go in a different direction by getting ready Kevin Durant so your whole approach to what you’re going to do now offensively and probably your identity what you want your team to be is going to be a lot different you still have enough I think offensive talent there at the top that to be able to compete they had to change their identity in terms of being a more physical team right a more defensive minded team mark Williams doesn’t necessarily have great defensive metrics but he gives them a far greater presence in the paint with his athletic ability and as a guy that can really hurt you with lob threat he’s much more skilled um in putting the ball in the basket in those situations so highlevel finisher super high percentage shooter from the field because he doesn’t really do much that he can’t do um and just gives you more athletic presence like they wanted to get bigger better in the middle and I think they they tried to address that so um it’s a it’s a new era man new coach new front office uh got rid of your best player like this is a really interesting offseason for the Phoenix Suns and they clearly was a guy they that they they targeted and wanted from day one with this regime change and what they were trying to do at the top this was obviously a guy they looked at knew was available and looking at available big men around the league adam I guess this is maybe as good as they thought they could do in making a pitch to get one of those guys his age and his talent I think are what they were intrigued by as much as I understand that and there was all this excitement for Mark Williams when he was traded to the Lakers and then that traded was rescended but here’s how I look at centers in the NBA you’ve got Joic Joel Embiid you know a very short list you could maybe say Carl Anthony Towns of these number one option centers offensive centers that’s their own tier and then you’ve got a a very short tier of guys like Zubots you know very good defensive centers who I think are really worth you know quite a bit but once you get past the short list of guys that fit into each of those categories to me I don’t know how valuable it is if Mark Williams is because we don’t I think you agree he’s not Zubots he’s not Joic
so he’s this other caliber of guy and I just wonder how valuable it is to spend resources if you’re not one of the top two types of of those uh of those types of centers and if you are going to spend your resources maybe it’s for a more defensive-minded guy uh so for me I don’t know if I understand or like this Mark Williams deal he’ll get offensive rebounds he’s a lob threat he’s tall but I just don’t know if he makes an impact against the types of big men that you’re going to have to make an impact you know in the Western Conference
no I think that’s all fair and I think look eyes in the beauty of the beholders right so so for every team’s going to view these guys differently for some reason that this was a deal that could have been made by the Lakers they backed out of this like that was you could it was obvious JJ Renick I don’t think ever wanted to make that trade um yeah and giving up Daltton connect and bringing in Mark William remember the awkwardness around that it was all tied into the Lucas situation so a lot was going on there but at the end of the day the trades rescended he goes back um you know he’s a guy that at at nights when you watch him he’s flashy like he can do some some things and you know he he finishes at a high level he’ll get three four dunks in a game and it’s definitely eyeopening stuff is he necessarily going to correlate to you winning more games directly i don’t know that I agree with that so I think I’m probably on the same page as you and you know you so you would question what would you be willing to give up for a guy like Mark Williams so to your point doesn’t fit into one of those two categories of bigs that seem to have a lot of impact and a lot of success in this league and the type of players that teams covet he doesn’t really fit that description but I think they looked at what they had and it’s an upgrade there i do believe that because look at what they were trying to play in the middle with i think he’s going to be an upgrade there i don’t know enough about him like outside of the situation he was in which was a losing situation and look the Suns had a rough year they’re trying to turn it around now so depending on how that team gets out of the gate if he’s impactful on a team that’s winning more games than he was in Charlotte maybe you’re going to view him a little bit differently i think right now I think it’s something that remains to be seen with him can he contribute at a high level on a team that’s actually winning games and is he a direct you know impact on them winning games i I’m going to I’m going to wait i think the judge judgment for me is out a little bit i want to see him in a different setting a different situation different culture and the Suns are trying to change that around this could be something good for him could be something good for the Suns so I don’t necessarily hate it but I agree is it something that you would have gone out of your way to seek to bring him in and give up assets to try to bring him in i I can see your point on that another interesting one from round one of the playoff or of the draft and I actually think it was the first big surprise of the draft was that the Utah Jazz took Ace Bailey even though he made it pretty clear that he did not want to go to Utah utah said “We don’t care you’re the best player on the board we’re taking you at number five.” You could tell he was a little disappointed there but they took a gamble and said “We’re going to take Ace Bailey we like the upside.” What do you make of that and how much does that impact things players I know want to force their way to the situation they want but how much do you think this will be a storyline that Utah you know hey we’re taking you even though you asked us not to uh I mean look everybody’s different i know for me if I was running an NBA team I’m not taking a guy that’s made it pretty clear doesn’t want to be there i just think you’re starting off the entire relationship on bad footing and particularly um questionable when you look at the state that the Jazz are in so you already have a guy you know this is one thing if the team was a good team and a guy for whatever reason didn’t want to be there um and they had high prospects the following season like well maybe getting in there and you want you get a taste of winning early in the NBA and maybe that could you could come around a little bit on that right you kind of enjoy that you know this is a team that’s going to struggle and that’s the intent is to struggle right now and now you go get a guy that’s kind of done everything he can to avoid being drafted by you and you pick him anyway now I guess their thinking is probably it doesn’t matter like that’s the talent we wanted that that pick dictated he was the guy um you know a lot of people felt like he could have been the third player picked in the draft so you feel like you’re getting value with the pick at five and he’ll come around like once he gets a taste of this and what we’re about internally he’ll come around i think it’s a risky proposition you know hopefully the guy ends up getting there likes the guy the people he’s with every day going to work with every day connects with the coaching staff so his attitude is positive and then he’s going to get a chance to play right away and maybe that’ll be enough to satisfy him i mean it looks I know as well as anybody that that city loves that team so the support is going to be there like you’re playing no matter what the situation they’re selling that place out the vibe is great the energy is great they love the Jazz and maybe that’ll be enough to get him to come around i just think it’s it’s a risky proposition to start off this very important relationship with a player that certainly is in the mix for at least three years if not four right off the bat that you already have a vibe that he didn’t necessarily want to be there i think that’s risky and I think there’s other ways you could have gone for me it’s not that clear-cut now he look he could blow everybody away maybe he’s that good and then you go a year from now man thank goodness they stuck to their guns and drafted this guy he’s one of the best rookies in that class and potentially a future star way too far away for me to predict that so I think when there’s other comparable talent in that spot I I would have a hard time picking a guy that didn’t want to work out for teams trying to dictate where he went it almost feels like right from the bat he’s going to be a problem with trying to control the narrative all the time and some things are out of your control in this league and maybe it was just you know he did this early on because that’s such an important thing where you go but it’s not really going to be uh something that’s a recurring personality trait or or character trait or what have you and you know one of the things that I had heard was that he wanted to be the guy so he didn’t want to go to Philadelphia because there he would it’s an established team does he really get to spread his wings i think he’ll be able to spread his wings in Utah you know we’ll see what they do with Marin Markin and Collins and some of the other more veteran pieces they have but by all accounts it looks like they should be set up for him to for them to really invest in him and it might end up being a good basketball and career situation even if it wasn’t the market he wanted so I am interested in that i like their draft by the way wal Walter Clayton Jr i like a lot they picked him up as well so what do you think
i think Walter Clayton Jr i think Walter Clayton Jr is gonna be a player um at the next level i mean I’ve been wrong before uh you don’t get them all right i’ve got a really strong instinct on him um and it wasn’t just the run at the end of the year it’s it’s just it was the way he was playing the skill set that he has i I just think he’s he’s a guy that’s it just oozes confidence so I agree with you i love that pick
and then the Brooklyn Nets had five first round picks everybody thought they’d probably take two or three of them trade something else maybe you package and move up that was not the case they used all five first round picks and they’re on the screen you can see who they took eigor Deon Nolan Trayori Drake Powell Ben Sif Danny Wolf uh four of those guys are creators passers creators or connectors really all of the guys there can kind of pass and handle a little bit so what do you make of a record five first rounders going to the same team in the same year i mean like like you know basically I don’t want to be redundant but yeah it’s unprecedented so I don’t have an opinion on it because I’ve never seen it happen before because no one’s ever done that before it’s hard to imagine that there would be five players in the first round of a draft that you would want that much that you wouldn’t consider trying to package some picks to get something more tangible like a proven young player that you know is already a certain thing in this league because there’s a lot of unknown here you’re right i mean Denim at the top is a phenomenal playmaker maybe that some people say the best passer in this draft that’s great but you go you know three other guards in the same draft in the first round and then one big who knows i I just think right now everybody’s just very very surprised when you go into a draft with five first round picks no one’s going to expect you’d be drafting all five of those players now it doesn’t mean they’re all going to be there or who knows what their decisions are going to be going forward but I think just on paper it’s shocking that you would be able to find five guys you were enamored with enough that you wanted to select them all and bring them in house
would it if you were a young first round pick I think I would hate being one of five first round picks sure it just I mean you’re now you’re competing with your peers and these picks are like kind of backtoback 19 22 26 27 so there’s not a lot of separation and it does feel like that’s not all of them can succeed and they might even cannibalize each other a little bit so I have to imagine if you’re a pick this is also a weird experience for you
i love that point of course what feels special about that for any of those guys now if you’re the eighth pick okay yeah they’re going to treat you a little bit differently that’s a really high pick top 10 pick right so you’re going to feel a little different but those other four guys you easily probably could have just taken all their names thrown them in a hat picked them out in different order and still drafted the same four guys and they ended up different picks 19 through 27 like that’s how tight it is when you get to the second half of the first round you’re talking about very slim margins in terms of how guys view them and some of these guys were slotted you know anywhere in like six to eight different number of picks that’s where they fell into that range so if you put that all together Adam they all over overlapped each other on different draft boards and they ended up picking all of them how do how do any of those guys feel really that special about this you know unless you And listen maybe collectively they get in a room and they say “Hey you know what man maybe we could be the NBA’s version of the Fab Five like here we go like let’s go make our own noise we’ll play four out basketball with one big and we’re the future.” Maybe that’s the conversation those guys have but I love your point man like if you’re a first round pick I understand some teams you know have two of those in a given year the rare time you’ve seen maybe teams with three usually it’s one occasionally there’ll be a second first rounder thrown in there and those guys get called up to that press conference and you feel pretty special you know I don’t know how special these guys will feel let’s see how it plays out man i mean I think with this draft and what they just did I think Shawn Marks is is a guy that you know he’s going to be under a lot of scrutiny for this and and if it if it pans out and they got some players man he’s going to come out of this looking pretty good if some of these guys struggle early on and they look like they’re in over their head I think you know he’s going to be hearing some noise in Brooklyn for sure what I think’s interesting about this is they all can pass the ball and and you know have a feel for the game that’s like can get the ball popping and I think if you look at Indiana Indiana young team almost had an AAOU feel to it over the last two years young guys rising together there are a lot of passers in there very team friendly you look at Oklahoma City a lot of young guys on there kind of feels like an AAOU team where they more feels more like a college team or an AA team where they’re all the same age kind of going through this together so maybe they’re looking at that and saying the game is evolving to where ball movement is important and having this ability to have all these young guys really bond like a college team at the pro level maybe he’s hoping it works out that way i don’t know if it will but maybe I to me that’s what I thought of when I really sat and thought about this five picks in the first round um let me ask you this last one though on the on the draft and these two points that are kind of combined the Pelicans Joe Dumar’s Troy Weaver they traded not just this year’s first round pick but also next year’s 2026 first round pick to Atlanta so that they could move up 10 spots and draft Derek Queen who they really really liked everybody knew that was the guy they wanted forget what you think about how this plays out what you think of Dererick Queen and okay you really like a guy you have to be aggressive to go get him next year’s New Orleans Pelicans 2026 firstrounder might be the best draft asset that gets traded over the you know the last 5 years and next five years because the Pelicans might be in the lottery and not just in the lottery the West is loaded they might win the lottery next year at a year where there’s some really good uh talent at the top of the draft i cannot understand why the Pelicans would trade next year’s first round pick just to move up to the number 10 spot can you legs or am I am I overreacting no you’re not overreacting look you know listen you know how I feel about second round picks right i feel kind of similarly Adam about the second half of the first round you know what I don’t have you know what I don’t have ambivalence toward a lottery pick that is almost guaranteed going to be a top five pick
when you’re in a situation like the Pelicans and it almost makes me wonder and now of course they’ve got some new guys down there making decisions as well and it makes me wonder if there is um an unrealistic belief in what they’re going to be next year like you’d have to believe that number like Zion Williamson’s gonna come back and play 77 games and he’s going to be out there every night and he’s gonna put up monster numbers and be super super uh consistent with his availability and production and like that that top guy you need to build around and you’ve got guy other guys coming back from injuries and they’re all going to come back and be healthy we’re going to put all this together and we’re going to be like a relevant competitive team in the West next year nobody really views them that way and so for me there’s got to be a disconnect with how they view what their next season is going to be because if you have that pick and you understand the reality of where your team is going to finish this year that pick is golden you’ve got to hold on to it i it just feels like they got played a little bit and they they weren’t necessarily the best negotiators with this like and understand like you don’t need to give up that pick too to to get to make that that happen there’s got to be some other asset you can give up to try to secure that so you can move up to take queen look a lot of people like Queen he’s very skilled and some people think he might have the most offensive upside of any big in this draft that’s possible remains to be seen they clearly love them to move up 10 spots to grab a guy uh and to give up all of that that’s that’s a lot man on a team that’s probably headed for the lottery to give up your own lottery pick is just to me you just don’t see that in this league you know uh teams absolutely mortgage off future picks all the time it’s usually contending teams or teams that are close to being really relevant at the top of the conference they’re missing a piece you go give up a bunch of picks the Orlando Magic just did it they gave up a bunch for Desmond Bane because that might be the missing piece to put them into hell conference finals or something that’s that’s that’s what team Minnesota did it with Rudy Gobear like you think that’s the piece to put you over the top that’s not what we’re talking about here man you give up that golden pick that you absolutely are going to be using would have used at the top of the lottery next year and you just gave that up to get a guy that you loved in this draft that still was the 13th pick in the first round so um it’s not like you moved up to get the third pick you you still got the 13th pick we’ll we’ll see how good he ends up being i’m pulling for him i hope he ends up being great i still doesn’t justify giving up next year’s lottery pick when you are a lottery team i see somebody says they’ll be middle of the pack next year they lost 61 games they lost 61 games last year how much better did they get the West got better portland made an aggressive move to get Drew Holiday i think they’ll be a little bit better san Antonio I think is looking like they will be better i don’t know who’s going to be meaningfully worse memphis maybe is worse we’ll see what kind of moves they make maybe Sacramento a little bit but I just do not see New Orleans looking at how shaky uh things have been with their team they make the move for Jordan Pool to me they’re a bottom three team in the Western Conference and we just saw the Dallas Mavericks with a 1.8% chance move up to number one in the lottery to even risk getting rid of a pick when you own that to me is crazy and it brings me to my next and final take of this first segment legs i think that there have not been that many GMs like that stumble their way through the job over the last five or six years there’s been a couple but I thought 20 years ago there were a lot of GMs that would do wild trades and they’ve just felt like every year somebody would make a move and you’d say “Man do they understand what they’re doing?” I think that’s largely gone away but this new CBA is finally starting to cycle through and we’re seeing it it’s very complex and second aprons and teams are starting to have to make maneuvers i think this might be the era i don’t want to say the era of the dumb GM or the dumb GM is back because that’s being too harsh but I do think that it’s there’s a wide gap between the best and worst i think 5 years ago the gap was probably more narrow i think the gap is wide again because we have a new collective bargaining agreement that not everybody seems to understand how to navigate it i agree with that i also think you’ve got you’re going to have more situations Adam where the desires of the head coach and the front office executive don’t align with the overall objective of the organization with regard to how much money they want to spend so as a result you might get some guys swinging for the fences on some of these some of these transactions because the window’s shorter the pressure is greater you’ve got less time to kind of turn this around make it happen and make us win and and also you’ve got in a lot of cases you’re going to have restrictions placed on you and what you’re allowed to spend because guys aren’t going into the tax so as a result you’ve got to you’re going to get guys that are going to try to get wildly creative what what they’re going to try to do if they identify a player that they think is the right one and you’re putting an awful lot in that pot and it could it could really backfire on some people you know I just don’t love this move i don’t the pick giving up that pick i also don’t love the fact you bring in Jordan Pool look CJ McCollum is at the end of of his career he’s getting close to the end of his career i understand that he’s hurt a lot now too i mean Jordan P with you know look Golden State couldn’t wait to get rid of him he goes to Washington he he he didn’t I was going to say put up great numbers i said when he went there these guys going to put up you know 20 to 25 at night for the next 10 years and it’s probably not going to matter a whole lot because not a lot of people are going to be paying attention well it turns out he wasn’t even able to do that he he had he had a really difficult time playing well in a situation when he could have done whatever he wanted to offensively and and I don’t know that that you just a winning player and so you’ve you’ve brought him into the organization now you’ve made this move you better hope that uh Queen is the right guy man and he hits and he opens some eyes quickly early in the year where people start to go okay man I guess he was that good and and he gets uh this organization gets some grace with making that move
yeah we’ll see what happens i don’t love the move he also plays the same position as Zion kind of similar doesn’t stretch the court who knows what they’re doing with Zion but Pelicans man I don’t I don’t love it all right let’s take a break on the other side we’re going to have some fun because I thought we would look back since the year 2000 and try to figure out who’s the best number one pick i think that’s obvious who’s the best number two pick three pick and so on all the way through the lottery we’ll do that together on the other side AllNBA legs i thought this would be a fun experiment if we went through the last 25 years since the year 2000 and we tried to figure out who was the best player or uh to be taken at number one at number two number three and compare them throughout the years you took a look at this i think it was kind of an interesting thought experiment very i I think the first thing that jumped out when you have it in a spreadsheet form like this and it’s just easy to scan through quickly give it quick context first thing that jumps out is you’re like man there were a lot of missed picks like there’s a lot of picks in here man when you start going through look you expect that when you get down to like you know seven eight and below all the way down to 14 you know that it’s just harder like top five
you know you’re thinking like most of those should be hits you know um if not home runs at least solid standup doubles let’s let’s go with that all right
right but there’s there there’s a lot of misses in here man and I think some of these guys like are obvious like the obvious best overall number one pick over the last 25 years the best number two overall pick i I think some of them fairly obvious there are some years when I think it’s a couple of guys and it’s debatable and that’s that’s a fun exercise
all right well we’re going to debate them and this is our weekly or I’m sorry our daily segment sponsored by FanDuel we’ll call it our shout out segment this is sponsored by FanDuel as we go yearbyear you guys can play along with us if you want to take a look at these uh number one overall picks all right number one overall for the last 25 years this is maybe the easiest one in the entire uh entire list of things we’re doing which is crazy because there’s a lot of really good picks but in my opinion hands down it’s LeBron James number one pick 2003 i there’s Dwight Howard Anthony Davis Anthony Edwards Victor Wimyama lebron James to me was an extremely easy pick
yeah it’s it absolutely i mean I looked at the list and you look right at the top the most recent ones and you got guys like Victor Webbeyama Beno Cade Cunningham Anthony Edwards i mean these are great players and who knows like what the future holds for those four guys as young as they are particularly Webyama and like what we think his ceiling could be but think about this what would they have to do in their careers to supplant LeBron James like at any point you could revisit this 25 years from now and do you know what Victor Webama would have to do to supplant LeBron James he’d have to become the second or first best player in the history of the league
that’s all that’s what he’d have to do so like yeah you’re right i mean some of these are closer and this there’s a lot of great players in here too by the way he didn’t even go to like you know some of these guys in the middle of this list like Anthony Davis Kyrie Irving
Blake Griffin Carl Anthony Towns i mean these are some great players mentioned but it’s head and shoulders LeBron James i mean it it’s and and who knows ultimately you know where these guys go with their careers but man that’s a lot a lot you look at a resume that LeBron has what you’re going to have to do in your career to even come close what’s interesting about your point about LeBron because I agree with you i wonder you know with Michael Jordan everybody was chasing Michael Jordan and it wasn’t just the greatness it was also the championships it was like you were chasing both you need six but it also needs to look and feel a certain way i think LeBron’s dominance in large part has looked and felt like Michael Jordan’s in a lot of ways i mean he at his peak he was just so clearly head and shoulders above everyone else but the championships weren’t there and I really wonder if some of these younger great players it will almost skew more to championships cuz when you said like could Kate Cunningham or Anthony Edwards become LeBron I just don’t think they can but could they win four or five if they were on the right team and the right situation that’s more believable to me you know if you just happen to get on a team that rallies a couple off in a row so I’ll be curious to see if things switched and we go back to just rooting for for multiple championships that’s all you’re really aiming for i want to I want to I want to wrap that wrap that point with this think about this so there’s there’s you know 25 players listed here okay and of the last 25 number one picks do you know how many of those guys in the first round have won championships
oh man that’s
Let’s see by my count three
dwight Howard in the bubble off the bench kyrie or you know four four I forgot that I forgot that I was thinking more as like the top guy but you’re right
as the top guy
Anthony well one of one of the top two guys like you know I mean not not not like a role player more like Dwayne was in that team but in fairness he did win a ring I mean it was much later in his career but it’s basically AD Kyrie and LeBron
yeah yep you’re right as I go through it you’re right the other guys were like Andrew Bogat but he was a a bit player by the time they won
so yeah
that’s very rare even for number one
to your point to your point when you draft a guy number one typically you’re thinking this is a guy that can be the guy that drives our franchise to a championship
i don’t think if anybody goes in
to the draft and thinking you’re drafting a guy at number one overall who hey man if this hits he could be a really nice player for us like I don’t think anybody thinks that with a number one pick so to think what you just said is so true like the championships have to come with it with the talent and production the numbers all that stuff and that’s how hard it is we’re going back 25 years of number one picks and the only guys we come up with that won it were Bogot and Dwight Howard as role players backups or Bogot started on that team and then and then LeBron AD and Kyrie that’s it
yeah and by the way AD and Kyrie because of LeBron right
of course yeah
you know so so even their championship is tagged to the other guy we’re talking about here so that’s that’s what you’re saying that’s how hard it is going to be for guys like Weyama Beno Kate Cunningham Anthony Edwards those are the four guys those are four great picks man those franchises got them right they got great players but look at the work ahead look they’re young maybe it’ll happen i hope so it’s good for us if it does but that’s that’s the bar that LeBron James has set with that pick back in 2003
it’s also kind of wild how many number one picks LeBron has played with i didn’t realize it nobody else has really played andrew Wiggins by the way Adam that’s a good point out andrew Wiggins you’re right with the Warriors and he was a key player on that team yeah all right number two pick I think is or the number two picks of the last 25 years I think also has a clear number one and that’s Kevin Durant
yeah kevin Durant who went behind Greg Odin that year i don’t know that there’s anybody particularly close although there are a lot of really good players in that number two spot
lot of good players i think if you start going to the next like Okay who who do you even bring up after Durant because you’re right it’s clearly Durant um John Morant maybe
yeah yeah
in terms of in terms of accomplishments as an NBA Lamarcus Aldridge has a kind of great career so that’s not a bad one aldridge was picked uh the year before Kevin Durant uh and then I I mean you then it’s a bunch of guys that you would be debating that are similar
good players
yeah good players homer you know he’s got a very bright future but I don’t know that he’s he’s going to ever be on that level it’s it’s clearly Kevin Durant a finals MVP champion scoring champion one of the all-time great scorers and you know on some people’s list one of you know one of the top players of all time so yeah that that’s an easy one and what’s interesting about number two is you start to get bust i mean in the in the first one your real only bust Greg Odin injuries large part and then uh there was one Anthony Bennett but everybody else at least is a
Brownwami Brown as a number
yeah but Kwami Brown still at least played for a few years but yes he was a bust for a one pick but I’m saying on the number two pick you start to get guys Wiseman Bagley these guys never got traction in the league uh so there’s you start to get darko you start to get guys that were just straight up bus um not just relative number three I think is also obvious in my opinion although there was some debate in the office i think it’s Luca Donuch but you’ve also got James Harden Joel Embiid Jason Tatum Carmemelllo Anthony so do you did you go with Luca Donuch i would go with Luca but I do agree that that would be what the best debate so far
yeah um because of you Embiid’s an MVP i know he’s hurt all the time guy the guy’s won an MVP uh Luca hasn’t been able to do that yet and he hasn’t won I know he’s been to a final but he hasn’t won a championship and he hasn’t won an MVP yet um he’s got a lot of things to answer now there’s a lot of people looking at him the way it played out last year you’re talking about a guy who had his who had his entire ego I think shaken by knowing that he was dispensable that an organization at 25 years old said “Nah we’ve seen enough for good i that’s got to be just cold water in your face for a guy like Luca Donic so let’s see what his answer to that is this coming season it’s a big year for him and how we view him but from a talent standpoint and from what he’s accomplished to this point of his career he he deserves to be at the top of this list embiid’s a great one james Harden’s had a great career he’s obviously a a certain Hall of Famer also an MVP i think he’s got some some playoff issues for me that that is the opposite of Luca like Luca seems to be a guy that kind of dials it in to the most extreme degree during those situations and it felt like that was situations that made Harden a little bit uncomfortable at times that would separate those two guys for me but I think I think it’s debatable man because Luca right now I think has more questions right now than he has at any point
where does this go from here for Luca Dodic i believe that
fourth pick starts to get kind of interesting because here we got Amen Thompson Jiren Jackson Jr Aaron Gordon Chris Dabs Chris Bosch good players but the top of it is a classic debate russell Westbrook Chris Paul i think it’s got to be one of those two and I’m curious which one you picked oh this is so hard i probably would I probably Oh man this I don’t know i can’t decide i I’ve never been this torn because I know the right answer is probably Chris Paul um
Wow
you know as as just a natural point guard floor leader decision maker IQ guy you know but that edge that Westbrook had man that relentless competitive edge I sign me up for that i like having that on my team and he was he was my favorite player to watch for probably a four or five year period in this league i don’t think I ever ever felt that way about Chris Paul that I was you know I couldn’t wait to watch him but I understand his value and how great he was on both ends of the floor i think this is a an absolute coin toss just depends on your flavor man what do you like
this is a total flavor one right here they both have their flaws russ I think the more dynamic like he’s going to be your best guy then you’re going to want Russell Westbrook chris Paul seems more versatile in the type of team you could build around him and different guys he could play with neither of them have won it’s a tough one i think I’d go Westbrook i think I’d go on that side let us know in the comments by the way that’s the best debate so far uh fifth pick has an obvious one in my opinion it’s Dwayne Wade there are some good players in here i don’t know if there’s any great players to Dwayne Wade’s level or any anywhere close but I think the fifth pick is is all about Wade
no there’s some guys that had really big impact in this league guys like Trey Young are in there uh Dearon Fox
is in there
uh Marcus Cousins who is a massive talent kevin Love is another good one but I think you’re right i I think it’s pretty clear that it’s Dwayne Wade and again both played both ends of the floor equally hard uh champion a Finals MVP so he’s got only got the the two with LeBron he got the one before that that I think helped cemented his place in in terms of how we view him historically in the championship that he won against Dallas when he completely dominated that series um so yeah I think Dwayne Wade is the obvious pick with the overall best fifth pick of this draft the last 25 years now we start getting in even at starting at the fifth pick we start to get into this territory where there’s a couple great players or one great player and a couple good ones but when you go through the average fifth pick of the last 25 years is it Dante Exom is it is it uh you know Jeff Green Raymond Felton you know good players but when you talk about oh they traded and got a number five pick it feels like this big deal but when you just go through historical president the average fifth pick is Ricky Rubio you know a good player but not somebody that you think of as completely revolutionizing your organization and just something to kind of keep in mind it’s always about hope the number six pick Damen Lillard to me number one ironically I think number two would be Brandon Roy i agree and I look if Brandon Roy didn’t have chronic issues with his knees at a very young age that began I I mean I think if Brandon Roy has a normal career with an injury sprinkled in here or there but has much greater longevity i think that’s a much diff more difficult conversation between Brandon Roy and Damen Lillard but because Brandon Roy was that good and a lot of people are probably forgetting that
um because you’re going back he was picked two in 2006 he was drafted so you’re almost 20 years from when he was drafted and he had a very short shelf life at a top level but had incredible amount of respect around the league from his peers how talented he was it just didn’t last long enough to make this a really legitimate debate so I think I think it is clearly Lillard number seven another easy one it’s Steph Curry and this is another one seventh pick feels like it’s a good pick like oh my god top seven pick there’s a lot of busts when you go down this the the list of guys in the seventh pick but Steph Curry not a bust i think he’s head and shoulders above everybody else so you’re gonna go with Steph Curry over say a guy like Emanuel Moodier i’ll tell you I will tell you that back in uh tw 2015 or whatever year it was I had a lot of hope that Moodier would be better than Steph but
hey I will say this so far through through seven pick through the seventh pick of these drafts I think this pick the seventh has the greatest separation between the obvious guy and the next guy i think even more so than LeBron because
because the guys the guys that are drafted recently with the number one pick like there’s no telling how great those guys careers are going to be you’re not you look at the most recent even the most recent seventh picks where you go okay we don’t really know yet you’re talking about Donovan Klingan who’s a good player but he’s he’s never going to turn into like an MVP caliber player in this league bal Koulabali Shaden Sharp they got a lot of talent potentially he’d be a guy I’d watch kaminga we kind of know what Kaminga is killian Hayes Kobe White Wendell Carter Jr like there there and it would have to be like a recent pick a really young guy where you go “Hey man who knows?” There are guys like that in LeBron with like you’re comparing with LeBron at the number one there’s nobody in this seventh pick like the separation between Curry and every other seventh pick for the last 25 years that’s the greatest separation in this exercise right here
just not cornerstone guys man i mean even market in close close enough if we go to the number eighth pick this might be the worst of the entire lottery and and what an anomaly because it’s like right in the middle I think and these are your options you got Rudy Gay Jamal Crawford KCP those are kind of your options i went with Fran Vagner i think he might be the best number eight pick of the last 25 years and I love Fran that’s my guy but I think that’s pretty shocking that he would be the best player taken at number eight man honestly the only other guys even now Colin Stanton would have been interesting if he didn’t get hurt he’s not the same player that he was i think he was promising like by year two three he looked like he was really going to be something and the injuries are setting back it’s Rudy Gay Jamal Crawford they’re like the next two guys um but so I agree with you i think it is Vagner because of of number one the player that he is now but also again growth he’s a very young player and that team that team is going to be really good next year very much in the mix in the top of the east which is going to even make you I think appreciate him and elevate him even more in your mind of what kind of player he is um you know obviously guys like Rudy Gains Jamal Crawford did it for a really long period of time in this league and if France Vagner you know got hurt next year and it shortened his career maybe you revisit this 20 years from now you wouldn’t pick him but right now based on potential and and like just the skill that he represents now I think it would be Vagner i agree with you but but as far as best player goes that’s kind of a wild one that he would be the best bet there at eight number nine has some good players in here and I think this is the first time we’re going to really disagree amari Starttomire Andre Guadala Joe Kimoa Demard Rosen maybe a couple other guys that could get into the list i went with Amari Starttomire i think he’s the top of that list who did you go with man I’m gonna tell you something right now i I viferously agre disagree with you and I’m in a state of shock that you went the direction you did and Marish starter at his peak was incredibly explosive and entertaining and when he went to New York before he got hurt he was there were some MVP chants being rained down on him and I’m not talking about today’s standard MVP chant which I would get if I went to the line at home in a Wizards game i’m talking about when the MVP chant was like “Oh yeah this guy might be the MVP.” He he he was there in New York that year man with what he did and reviving the organization you couldn’t possibly be more disrespectful to a player than you’re being Demar Rosen right now
explain yourself explain yourself
demar Rosen I mean
where’s the Where’s the success i mean Amari you could say this for Amari too i mean to be honest with you
but I don’t know demand Rosen I think he’s so skilled he’s got all that skill explain your pick i just think Amari’s peak he was like arguably the best big man in the NBA or or I you know maybe number two big man in the NBA revolutionary in the style that he played and then got hurt so he had a short peak but his peak was really high man Demard Rosen has averaged 20 plus 12 straight years he’s one of the most consistent one of the most consistent mid-range scorers this league’s ever seen um he’s a guy that look if it wasn’t for you the misfortune of having to go up against the LeBron team you know uh potentially makes it to a finals he wasn’t able to do it he gets traded for the guy that put them over the top and got him a championship in Kawi Leonard but Demard Rosen to me man the consistency with which he has done it and the production and the longevity and he’s still doing it at a high level as we sit here now I just feel like the the peak for Amari start was very shortlived now if he had won an MVP if he had won a championship as your best that then okay maybe that would be enough to tip it in his direction he wasn’t able to do those things as talented as he was it was very short shelf life at that level demar Rosen to me doesn’t look much different now than he did 10 years ago it it’s it’s still really high level man what he does and that’s why I think for me it was uh Demar Rosen and I know James agrees with me by the way you think James agrees with Well I’m curious i think I think a lot of people are going to be on my side on this one let us know in the comments i’m very curious amari or Demard Rosen or maybe even Iguadala if you want to go to a a high level role player when we go to number 10 I think this one’s also easy paul George was a 10th pick cj McCollum is in this tier male Bridges like there’s some good guys but I think that Paul George is is by far the best 10th pick of the last 25 years
uh I agree there was one other name on here
brook Lopez maybe
I was looking at
Joe Johnson
yeah Joe Johnson that’s the one I was like that’s I think that’s I think that’s a hell of a debate because the difference between
Yeah I do and I’ll tell you why paul George statistically although Joe Johnson had some big scoring years in Atlanta though but so so I don’t even know if numbers are even better for Paul George paul George is probably regretted as a regarded as a better defender but Joe Johnson was a pretty good defender i think the difference for me which what makes it really interesting to argue Joe Johnson was always considered a big-time clutch player paul George doesn’t have that reputation
and I think that matters to me
yeah uh the 11th pick I think this one’s also pretty easy shay Gilus Alexander just coming off the MVP finals MVP championship klay Thompson is in the mix and then you have some really good you know role players around but to me I think it’s easily SGA yeah that’s it those two it’s It’s clearly SGA um and I think there are some good players in here man malik Monk Damonte Soponus Miles Turner uh really good player uh going on down with JJ Renick
who was picked 11th had a great career so there are there are a number of guys that really uh I think were value at the 11th pick to get that kind of production out of the guys I just listed but yeah it’s obviously Shay and and look he’s just beginning to do things in this league there’s no telling what this would look like if you revisited this question 20 years from now the separation might be ridiculous 12th pick this one could be debated i think you have three options really jaylen Williams Tyrese Hallebertton Miles uh Miles Bridges who I mean obviously has have some trouble but he had a really good start to his career um yeah basically those guys i mean I think it’s Tyresese Hallebertton but JDub could could close that gap yeah that’s a that’s a close one between those two guys i think right now yeah it’s it’s got to be Hallebertton just because of responsibility on their team i I just think you know you look at Hallebertton being that lead primary ball handler pace setter tone setter facilitator for them in addition to having a score jaylen Williams could do all those things but it’s not as critical on a nightly basis because you’ve got an MVP next to you you know he doesn’t have that Hallebertton so I think that would probably be the tipping point in his favor but look he’s got a devastating injury he’s got to come back from as well so who knows what this looks like five 10 years from now this question 13th pick you’ve got Tyler Herro Zack Lavine uh you know some some interesting players there but I think it’s a tie and I’m curious where you go between Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker man man that is really tough i mean you talk about kind of similar in so many ways the way they do it i probably would go with Donovan Mitchell because you can’t think of a situation in which Donovan Mitchell was on a team and wasn’t the best offensive player on that team you know and so it’s been a little bit different for Booker booker hasn’t always been that
mitchell has i think when you look at overall postseason success it’s kind of similar um you know Devin Booker did have an opportunity you know to play in the finals um but yeah I think that’s a really good debate i I think Donovan Mitchell would probably get the nod there because he’s always been the alpha in every team he’s played played on i think that is probably the right answer and yet I think I would rather have Devin Booker personally on the team yeah I probably I probably would too by the way i think that’s a different question
yeah it is because sometimes sometimes I think you objectively look at it fairly and assessing the two careers and what they’ve done but that’s a different question like who would I pick or who would I want i probably would take Devin Booker as well i think I believe in Devin Booker a little bit more too when when like a night you have to have it in a big moment in a playoff game i think I have a little bit more belief in Deon Booker
and then the last one of the lottery here the 14th pick and I think your options here are Nesmith Michael Porter Jr Bam Adabio um and that’s about it and I think it’s clearly Bam Adabio personally but that’s kind of what you’re working with
well I think you’d have to go without a bio i mean you know and I look and I’ve had some fun with him over the years i I know how good the guy is and how talented he is you know and I I would make jokes that like it seems like international team would come up and like okay we start with Bam Adabio and let’s plug in the pieces around him i kind of wondered how he got to that level with his reputation but it’s the truth look bottom line is this is a guy that’s regarded if we’re playing on Team USA so right off the bat that shows you how he’s regarded by his peers by the coaches in this league in the USA basketball the people that select those teams that’s that’s pretty impressive not to mention the fact the guy has been on really good teams and he is an elite two-way player man he he’s he’s a great defender um I always thought there was more he should have added to his game offensively and particularly at times when they really needed more punch out of him because a guy was out or they an offseason happened they lost a guy and it felt like okay you now we need you know we need four or five more points a game out of you he wasn’t really able to dial it up to that level it’s not really how he thinks the game it’s not really who he is but you can’t diminish his impact and the way he’s regarded his reputation is great around this league and he’s a winner man he’s been on good teams his whole career so that’s to me the ultimate separator for him and everybody else in that with that pick well I thought that was a fun exercise going through what stands out to me is your first second third fourth picks there’s a lot of really good players fifth sixth seventh eighth there’s a weird lull and I don’t know if it’s because you’re still if you’re picking sixth you’re still trying to find a superstar so you gamble a little bit more as opposed to trying to get solid hits but uh it is kind of interesting to me that you just think of a fifth sixth or seventh pick like oh we got a guy a chance to get a cornerstone piece when really there’s only one or two guys that turned out to be true cornerstone pieces in each of those picks over the last 25 years so fun fun experiment legs
it is and you know what would have been more fun we’re not going to do it but it would have been more fun to do let’s come up with the worst pick in each of those picks over the last 25 years but we could have had some fun with that could have had some fun with that but we won’t do that we’re kind we’re kind
I would have to look up Jerome Moiso because I don’t think I know that guy that That was a guy that was taken with the 11th pick back in 2000
11th pick yeah i don’t think I’
I don’t think I’d ever heard of his name before so there you go uh all right we got some super chats before we get out of here what do we have James who’s the better ninth pick d Rozan’s beating Amari they just got influenced come on James they just got influenced by legs [Laughter] that’s my people that my people show i tell them “Let’s go baby.”
It was close man all right psycho Blue says “Beball Cthulhu says Danny A just has to give Ace Bailey one of those dirty sodas that Utah is famous for and he’ll have his jersey retired with them in 20 years had one in Chicago 10 out of 10.” I don’t understand that one but I don’t always stand psycho blue
was that Hey was that the longest super chat you’ve ever read that you didn’t get any part of it happens man it happens but get it out all right what else we got was that it oh we got Bad Potato says “Did Messiah Jiri get fired because he thought Malawak was drafted already ready and did not take him your biggest fan from Poland?” Man he got let go i think people were surprised by that one um had a really good I can’t wait to see how he turns out by the way man that’s he there’s there’s a lot of people that think that because he’s already like a game changer defensively um if he adds offensively to his game the way people think he can because he’s demonstrated that kind of skill in like workouts and practice sessions man watch out you could have gotten the steal of the draft with that pick hit that outro music there James everybody listening we are now done with our four times a week portion of the season starting next week Legs and I are going to be getting together two times per week to to go over as the league kind of slows down but we do expect some big trades free agent signings coming over the next couple uh couple of weeks so we will have two shows a week for the rest of the next month and you guys can set your calendars accordingly we’ll probably do a show on Tuesday just allow free agency to begin some more trades to happen and then we’re only two weeks away from summer league where we’ll be breaking that down so starting next week two times a week we’ll be seeing you we appreciate you guys hanging out with us today make sure you’re subscribed hit that like button we’ll see you next week hey Adam before we go we got one last super chat that snuck in and it’s an important one so I wanted to get to it space available says “Missed the last few lives i just wanted to thank you all for the great content i didn’t like Adam at first but I was wrong you are a mustwatch.” There you go was that your Those were my sentiments exactly [Laughter] what can I tell you like pie two years man
yeah there you go i’m starting two years you’re starting to turn the corner you’re like “All right all right.” Uh everybody thanks so much hit that like button we’ll see you next week [Music] [Applause] we all silly like the mayor

Tim Legler and Adam Mares break down the biggest storylines across the NBA, from the Phoenix Suns’ confusing offseason moves to whether the Utah Jazz were right to draft Ace Bailey. They also evaluate Walter Clayton Jr.’s upside, how the Brooklyn Nets plan to develop five first-round picks at once, and if the Pelicans just made the worst trade of the decade. Plus, they debate whether we’re entering another “dumb GM” era and look back at the best draft picks at every slot over the last 25 years.

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more NBA insights and analysis!

00:00 – Intro
02:36 – What to make of the Phoenix Suns off-season so far?
07:22 – Should the Jazz have drafted Ace Bailey?
11:47 – What to expect from Walter Clayton Jr?
12:33 – Can the Brooklyn Nets five first round picks possibly work together?
17:02 – Did the Pelicans make the worst trade of the decade?
22:03 – Are we in the era of the “dumb GM” again?
27:46 – Best draft pick in each draft position of the last 25 years

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