BAD BUSINESS in Milwaukee? 😳 Windy QUESTIONS if Myles Turner is ENOUGH for Giannis 👀 | First Take

BAD BUSINESS in Milwaukee? 😳 Windy QUESTIONS if Myles Turner is ENOUGH for Giannis 👀 | First Take

Tim Bontemps and Brian Winhorse with us. A lot to talk about, but we start with the big news from yesterday. In a shocking move, the longest tenur Indiana Pacer, Miles Turner will now be wearing a Milwaukee Bucks jersey next season. The big man signed with Milwaukee to a 4-year $107 million deal. And in doing so, the Bucks waved and stretched Damen Lillard’s remaining contract. He is expected to have missed at least a bulk of the next year rehabbing from an Achilles chair tear. Let’s check in with Wendy’s reaction live on the show yesterday when this all happened. If I’m a of a Indiana Pacer right now, I’m I’m absolutely disgusted. I am sick to my stomach. If I’m Tyrese Hallebertton, I am breaking things right now. If I’m Rick Carile, I’m furious at just what’s happened because they were unwilling to spend a little bit of luxury tax money to hold this team in place for a year when Hallebertton came back to go to a team that they hate. They hate the Bucks. Tim Bontam, which team did this move impact more, the Pacers or the Bucks? I I would say the Pacers, Evan, for all the reasons Brian just laid out. You know, throughout the playoffs, the Indiana Pacers kept signaling to people that they were going to pay the luxury taxes. they were willing to pay the luxury tax to keep this team together. They had not paid the luxury tax in 20 years. There was plenty of skepticism across the NBA as to whether they were actually going to be willing to do that and keep this group together going forward. And they showed yesterday when push came to shove, they were not. This contract that Miles Turner got from the Bucks, it was a nice deal for him, but it is not way outside the bounds. They didn’t give him a max deal. They didn’t give him a $40 million deal. This is right in line with what he should get in comparison to the market. And by not giving him this deal, the Pacers have completely handicapped themselves going forward. Look, fans are probably sitting at home saying, “Why is everybody making such a big deal about Miles Turner as a Maiden All-Star team, averaged 15 points a game last year?” The reason why is because he has a very specific skill set that few players in the league have. He’s a rim protecting center. He and Brook Lopez, the guy he replaced in Milwaukee, two of the most contested shot players at the center position in the NBA. He also is an excellent three-point shooter. And that combination of floor spacing on offense and rim protection on defense. That is something every team is looking for in a big. It is especially critical to have next to Jiannis Tedupo, which is why the Bucks went and got him. It’s also something that’s critical for Pascal Seakkum, another guy who likes to play in the paint, and it’s why he and Miles Turner have been such a perfect combination the past couple of seasons. Now, yes, Tyresese Hallebertton is out this season. When he comes back after this year, when he gets back for the 26 27 season, the Pacers are going to have to find another version of Miles Turner. There are very few of them around the league. And as a result, this Pacer team that just had this incredible run, just got back to the NBA finals for the first time in a quarter century. Between this and the Hallebertton injury in the last 10 days, they’ve went from a team that I thought was going to be back in the finals next year to one that looks like it’s farther away from getting back there than ever.
So, I’m I’m going to give the Pacers a little bit of a benefit of the doubt here because I think that part of what you said is true. I think that they feel like if you give us a year, we can find a Miles Turner replacement, a 3 and D guy. We they probably also feel that some of what Miles Turner has been doing has been because of Hallebert and what he provides offensively. So maybe they feel like they can replace him. And also, let’s not forget they made a shrewd move during the finals. They got their number their first round pick back, which could be a lottery pick. Somehow the Pelicans end up as a loser in this trade, too, which is what they’ve been doing all offseason. So, I’m I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt. For me, this is all about the Milwaukee Bucks. This move that the Milwaukee Bucks have done will change has changed their franchise for the next half a decade. They’re tied to this Dame Lillard contract and they’re keeping Giannis. They have bought into the keeping of Giannis part of their strategy which I’m not totally sold on cuz I think that was best for them is probably parting ways. This actually reminds me of a few years ago uh when the Clippers made the big trade for Paul George to the Thunder, right? Five first rounds, two swaps. A heavy heavy price. wasn’t, you know, financial as much as picks, but what they were doing, they said, “We’re not just getting Paul George. We’re doing this for Paul George and Kawhi Leonard.” Right? The Bucks are making that same argument. They’re saying, “We’re paying an extra $20 million, not just for DNE and that contract. We’re paying an extra $20 million for Giannis.” And that is a gamble, but that’s something that they feel is worth it because they’re keeping the guy that has maintained their franchise for the last decade.
Wendy, which team is impacted more, Pacers or Bucks here?
Are they getting a Miles Turner replacement? Where are they getting that? That those guys are not available. They’re not going to have cap space. Free agents are not going to come there. And the reason they traded that draft pick was to pay Miles Turner because they were counting every penny that they were going to use and they offloaded that pick so that they could save a couple extra million dollars so that they could minimize their luxury tax. They were planning to pay the tax to keep Miles Turner because they’ve had the best team they’ve had in 25 years. Okay. And the injury to Tyresese Hallebertton is devastating. This is the effects of it. You look at the three Achilles tendon injuries that happened in the Eastern Conference. All three of those teams have been hit with some level of a wrecking ball. And if you were the Pacers, this is a team that was meticulously built by their front office without the benefits of high draft picks, without the benefits of ownership willing to spend. They had finally put it together and they had planned and they had planned to spend the luxury tax. And I will say to as as a way to more well round this out so that I’m not being too hard on the Pacers, they were in fact offering Miles Turner contract numbers that would have put them in the tax. They were willing to go into the tax, but they weren’t willing to do what they needed to do to keep this team together. And it’s just it’s got it’s a gut punch because 10 days ago, the Pacers were standing there in Oklahoma City off to a tremendous start in game seven of the finals. We’re talking about a team that entered the NBA in 1976, okay? And they for the the highest moment in the history of their franchise. They were on the verge of winning the whole thing and now they’re out Tigers Hallebertton and they’re at their franchise center and they have no functional way to replace him. If they if they pull it off, I will be right back here in this seat congratulating them and saying it was a great move. But that that’s my skepticism. The reason we’re reacting so strongly to Miles Turner, guys, is that this doesn’t just affect Miles Turner. It affects the team that was just in game seven of the finals. It affects the It affects Giannis and it affects Dame Lillard. That’s why this is so impactful. This is a throughine that affects all of those things. And it’s a shocking trade. It’s a It’s a level of of mortgage that really pro sports has never seen before. Um, I as a Cleveland Browns fan, this is akin to what the Deshun Watson contract was. Um, except for Deshun Watson wouldn’t even be on the team anymore, which is pretty much the way it is anyway. But that’s another story for another day. This is that level of mortgaging except for the players not going to be there. And I I was in Cleveland in 2010 when when LeBron was walking away. I was there those days when I felt the desperation that it was existing and wrapping around the Cavs franchise. I felt not quite that same level when Kevin Durant left Oklahoma City, but I felt that a little bit too. And there’s nothing like a small market that’s losing a superstar. The desperation is almost depressing. And so I think if this had happened in Cleveland and this these these tools were available to them for LeBron, they would have done this. In fact, they might have done it with two or three players. They might still be paying off stuff in 2010 to hold on to LeBron for a year. So, I kind of in a way get and understand and give, you know, sort of a pass to Milwaukee even though I don’t think that this is really a smart move on any level. The problem that I have with it is that I don’t think Miles Turner moves the needle. And I say that guys not as an insult to Miles Turner because I have so much respect for him. He’s a good player. I spent three weeks with him in China with the national team in 2019. I met his parents, great people, had great conversations with him, great guy. It is not a comment on him as a player. I just don’t see this level of mortgage resulting in a in a in a moving of the needle that makes Giannis say, “Oh, now everything’s different.” And that’s what my concern would be.
Amazing things there. You think about the Browns comparison, same person or people involved. Jimmy Hasslam with the Browns, Jimmy Hlam with the Bucks, minority governor of the team. In addition, from the Pacers perspective as we sit here today, it feels guys like Tyresese Hallebertton is more likely to play on another team one day than he is to play in game seven of the NBA finals. And the way that again and the way I would look at it is what the Bucks did yesterday was actually bad business, but worst business is losing Giannis. And that is an investment in Giannis. And times have changed obviously for the Bucks. After a few key departures, Giannis is the only remaining starter from their 2021 championship team. David, they’ve made all of these changes, but should Giannis now want to stay in Milwaukee? So, it’s kind of two things we’re talking about here. Should Giannis want to stay because that’s what he wants to do? Yes. If Giannis has decided that Miles Turner is the thing that is going to keep him in Milwaukee, then yes, stay in Milwaukee because that’s what you want to do. From a basketball standpoint, a pure basketball standpoint of is this bringing him closer to a championship? Is this bringing Milwaukee closer to a championship? The answer is no. Uh, as Brian said, Miles Turner is not moving the needle and changing this team from what would have been maybe a playin team to some sort of championship contender. But Giannis has decided that that’s enough for him to stay. I am still of the belief that the best move for both of these entities, Giannis and the Bucks, if they want to be close to an actual NBA championship, was settling this divorce right now.
Past tense. You still believe that?
I still believe that. Yes.
Taking the $20 million dead cap for 5 years.
Well, now Well, now you have no choice. Right. Now you’re kind of Giannis has kind of bought in. But the problem is they’re they’re taking this cap for multiple years. We don’t even know if Giannis is going to stay past next year, right? like they may be held on to this beyond the point of Giannis being there. But Giannis to me, if they’re trying to win before all of this, you part ways. You go to a contender in Milwaukee, you get as much of a hall as you possibly can and start your rebuild now because what you’ve done is you have locked yourself into this dude. You’ve locked yourself into all this money and I still do not see a pathway to a championship or anything close to a championship for either one of these people. Tim, if Gal said Koopo wanted to leave Milwaukee, he would have already said he wanted to leave Milwaukee. There’s been reasons over the past few years for him to do that. This is a team that has not made it out of the first round in each of the last three playoffs. They had two very disappointing losses the last two years as a top seed. This year, they were not that competitive as a five seed, and that was before Damen Lillard towards Achilles in game three, that first round loss to the Pacers. If you look at where this team is at, it is very hard to construct an argument that they have a path to being a championship level team. They are the current eighth betting favorite to win the Eastern Conference. The Eastern Conference is widely seen as the Junior Varsity Conference. So, if you’re right now projected to be a play-in team, at least by the betting odds, in the Eastern Conference standings, it’s very hard to see how you get from that place to being let a top four team in the East when you have no cap space, one first round pick, $22.5 million in dead money on your books going forward, very few tradable contracts on the roster, very little flexibility, few young players to grow with Giannis going forward. It’s basically Giannis Edoopo, Miles Turner, a bunch of filler, and that’s it. which is why this team is seen as a, you know, borderline playin level team. This is a team that finished fifth in the Eastern Conference last year with Damen Lillard averaging 24 points a game, still being a very good player, if not a perfect fit with Jiannisko, if not the kind of fit that the Bucks thought he would be when they made the Drew Holiday trade a few years ago. So when you pull back, you say, “All right, what does Jiannis Titakoopo want to do? Does he want to stay in Milwaukee for his whole career? If he does, God bless him. He’s earned that right.” You look at guys like Dirk Nitzky, Tim Duncan, Steph Curry, like you spend your whole career with one franchise. That’s a special thing to do. He obviously brought a championship back to Milwaukee for the first time in a half century. He’s unquestionably the greatest Milwaukee Buck in the history of the franchise. Karem Abdul Jabbar was only there a couple years. He doesn’t really get that recognition the way Giannis does, having spent more than a decade with the franchise. So, he has nothing to apologize for if he wants to be a Buck. But he has said publicly that he his goal is to win multiple NBA championships. And if he does not win multiple NBA championships, he will see his career as somewhat of a failure. And it’s very hard to sit here objectively and look at the Bucks going forward and see a path to them being a multipletime championship team, particularly when they are out all of their draft picks and now have 10 to 15% of their salary cap tied up in money they can’t do anything with for the rest of the decade. And at the end of the decade, Jannis tenacoup is going to be 35 years old. So that is where this question I think comes down to frankly for me this summer even after this Miles Turner move. They’re now paying Miles Turner essentially 50 million $50 million a year the next four years. Yiannis Koopo wants to play alongside him. He thinks that gives him a chance to win as much as he can in Milwaukee. Be happy with it. Great. But if he wants to win championships, it’s very hard to see how he’s going to do that as a Bucks.
Should he want to stay in Milwaukee? Has that decision already been made? I mean, if you’re the Bucks, do you make a move like this knowing that he there’s a possibility he could leave? Do you don’t you already know he’s there? I don’t know everything and I don’t know that the Bucks know that. Um I did not see a comment from Giannis yesterday. I saw a strange social media post that was left open to interpretation and I’m not afraid to say that I don’t know. If Giannis comes back from Greece in three weeks and says, “My god, I’ve dreamed of Miles Turner being my teammate. Um, double me down. Where’s my contract extension?” I’ll be like, “Man, what an amazing move. What an awesome move.” But I don’t, like I said, I don’t think this moves the needle. It it it’s a good move. It’s a It’s a It’s a absolute pure guts. Like when I talked to executives yesterday, like the first level of the conversation was like, “Wow, man. John Horst and that ownership group talk about guts. Like on a on a level they were like, I don’t have those kind of guts. Maybe I should re-evaluate what I’m doing. And if I’m another star player out there, I’m saying look at what this team is doing. You know, like why won’t my team do this? Like there’s a level of fascination and awe. But when the smoke clears eighth, the odds makers don’t mess around. The oddsmakers don’t play with emotions. The oddsmakers can see what the team has. So, you know, one of the things that in my world I live in, like, you know, because I’m from Cleveland, people are in Cleveland are like, “Why haven’t the Cavs traded half their roster? They lost in the second round last year. How can they possibly come back with this same team?” You know, I’m always in New York. People are like, “How come the Knicks haven’t done a trade? You know, if the Knicks don’t make the finals next year, blow it up.” I’m like, “You guys pay attention what’s going on? Like, these teams that are all around you in the Eastern Conference, like they’ve got these injuries and they’re getting worse. They’re getting worse. Like Milwaukee and Cleveland and New York are just sitting there going, “Hey, we’re just going to bring our team back and look at what’s happened. All these teams around us are like like we were worried about the Pacers. See, the Celtics just took away their all their entire roles. All their role players are pretty much gone.” You know, the Bucks had Giannis and and and Dame and now they’ve going to be paying Dame when when Dame’s retired. They’re going to be playing him. So, like status quo sounds pretty darn good to me.
Fascinating. Yeah. And the other side of this, David, you want to go on this?
They they better this idea that we don’t know if Giannis is going to come back from Greece and resign. If he does not do this, Nico Harris, they’re going to make Nico Harrison look like Sam Prey in terms of like the worst moves that I could imagine seeing. They have better have had Giannis signing up for this uh and saying that he’s coming back if they’re making this move. This is unbelievable if that’s if that would be the case.
All right, let’s look at the other side of this big move. The Bucks waving and stretching. Damen Lillard’s contract. For the first time in his 13-year career, Dame will be a free agent. Now, he’ll spend most of next year rehabbing that torn Achilles, but after that, his next destination is up to him. Our Mark Spears on NBA Today mentioned the Golden State Warriors may have interest in that hometown star in the All-Star Guard. Wendy, is Dame Lillard desirable to teams right now? what he wants to do now becomes a back half of the season major storyline. Now, I have been around long enough to see these players who have come off of Achilles tears and I’ve I I’ve talked to them in this, you know, the same situation where the player says, “I’m going to be back in February. You watch. I’m way ahead of schedule.” I’m kind of like, “Whoa, whoa. Let’s not assume anything about Dame. Let’s not pressure him. Let’s let him recover. We want to see him have a last act of his career. Having said that, if he indeed is able to return this season, he becomes an incredible wild card post all-star break next year because he is absolutely still an impact player. And he’s an impact player who doesn’t have to worry about money. This is one of the greatest things you could ever have as a professional in any situation. Financial freedom and free agency. This is glorious. It’s glorious. he can now go wherever for for the bottom basement price. In fact, if he makes a dollar more with any team, it’s value added because he’s going to um because he’s already got his money set up. So, yeah, I I don’t think it’s really worth breaking down the teams like right now he could go to like, you know, it’s interesting to talk about his hometown and going back to the going to the Warriors, but I think he deser owes himself focusing on his rehab and then looking at what the best landing spot for him might be. But man oh man, can you imagine a contender that looks like, you know, you know, maybe in even as far as April, you know, let’s say he, you know, he say he’s one year off the injury in April. Can you imagine a contender landing Damen Lillard? Like that’s without expectation, that’s an incredible wrinkle that’s going to go into this next season.
Well, and to to Brian’s point, this is the best thing that ever happened to Damen Lillard. When you look at the way this has played out since then, he now gets the $113 million he’s owed to him. He gets this year to fully get himself back to health. And then whether he signs with the team late in the year or not, I think it’s most likely that he’s going to go into next summer, be able to survey the landscape, be owed $58 million next year and say, “All right, where’s the best place for me to go to continue my career?” Whether it’s does he want to be back on the West Coast and be by his family? Does he want to go play at home in Oakland? Does he want to go play in LA? Does he want to go to the best team possible to win championships? like he will have a full choice of options in front of him because again I don’t anticipate Dame going out there and saying I need to get a max deal. I think he’s going to go out there and say I want to find a place that I’m particularly happy and especially after these past couple years in Milwaukee. It has not been the best situation for him leaving Portland where he was the first 11 years of his career. Things did not go great the past couple years with the Bucks. They never really meshed with he never really messed with Giannis Tedakoupo the way he and the Bucks and Giannis all expected to. It never felt right. It was always clunky. His family wasn’t there. The whole situation was just kind of off from the beginning. Now, he’s going to be able to choose whatever he wants and have his money there. And as Brian said, if he is ready to go next spring, there are going to be teams lined up around the block saying, “Hey, come play with us for the playoff run, come off the bench and score, be an impact player for us.” There there would be that’s we’ve basically never seen a situation like that before. Because even if Dame isn’t the same guy who was a first or second team AllNNBA player in the middle of his tenure in Portland, he still was a guy who averaged 24 a game last year is still a guy that teams are going to fear. And if he’s in an impact subroll coming off the bench next spring and he’s anything close to that, he’s a guy that could swing playoff series. He could swing conferences. He could even swing the title if he lands in the right spot.
This is a league changing thing that is hovering over everybody right now. This is Thanos coming. This is White Walkers. Winter is coming cuz Dame Lillard is going to add his talents to a contender. He’s not going to go out there and try to rebuild. I know people were talking about Miami and stuff like that. He’s not going to go rebuild with the team. He is going to be an addendum to a team that is already going to be in the championship uh spotlight, right? And he’s also going to be able to do that without having to gamble. He’s going to look and see who is best best, you know, positioned to win a championship. All they need is a little bit of Dame Lilith. This is like when Kevin, this is Kevin Durant level for the price that we’re talking about and the fact that you’re adding him to an already championship level team. This is going to change so many franchises. You want to talk about the Lakers trying to make sure that Luca wants to come back. Hey, we’re bringing Dame. You want to talk about the Nuggets and saying, “Hey, Joic, uh, you know, we want to build some around you.” Like, he can go to literally anybody for $1 and turn them from a team that is in the conference championship or the second round and they can win a championship with Dame Lillard. out of everybody involved in this whole thing, Milwaukee, Giannis, Miles Turner, Indiana, Dame Lillard out of all of this is the person most positioned to win the championship before anybody else.
And I’ll tell you one thing, Evan, I’m sure the Bucks wish him well, but if he comes back in the spring, I mean, look, maybe Miles Turner and Yas Tennaka will be a killer and killer pick and roll combination and they’ll be in second place and they’ll be laughing. But if if Dame comes back in the spring and is an impact player for somebody, it’s going to make you feel a certain way if you’re a Bucks fan.
It’s a very well-made point. I I’ll also add one thing. I don’t think we have to look at just one team. Dame Miller could come back midway through the season, pick the the number one contender that he helps and then sign with whoever he wants to in the offseason long term. He doesn’t have to sign a multi-year deal. He could sit there and say, “Hey, the Rockets look like they’re on the verge of the of the title. I’m gonna sign with them for the rest of the season and then in the offseason I’m going to go to a West Coast team because he doesn’t have to sign a multi-year deal at all in any way, shape or form.

Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps and David Dennis Jr. join Evan Cohen on First Take to further react to Indiana Pacers’ center Myles Turner signing with the Milwaukee Bucks, causing them to waive star Damian Lillard.

0:00 Windy’s live reaction
1:12 Pacers or Bucks more effected?
8:20 Bad business?
10:37 Will Giannis Antetokounmpo stay?
16:40 How much interest in Dame?

✔️ Subscribe to ESPN+ http://espnplus.com/youtube
✔️ Get the ESPN App: http://www.espn.com/espn/apps/espn
✔️ Subscribe to ESPN on YouTube: http://es.pn/SUBSCRIBEtoYOUTUBE
✔️ Subscribe to NBA on ESPN on YouTube: http://bit.ly/SUBSCRIBEtoNBAonESPN
✔️ Watch ESPN on YouTube TV: http://es.pn/YouTubeTV

#ESPN