Are the Chicago Bulls Playing the WAITING GAME with Josh Giddey? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Are the Chicago Bulls Playing the WAITING GAME with Josh Giddey? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

What up, Bulls Nation? We’ve got a live CSO Bulls podcast coming up for y’all right around the corner. Josh Giddy, as of Wednesday, four o’clock central time, still unsigned. What’s going on? Plus, the Bulls keep popping up in various reporting and rumors connected to the Jonathan Kaminga sign and trade sweep stakes. We’re also talking Isaac Aoro with the host of the Fear the Frost podcast. Plus, taking a look at some Noah Asen Bulls draft grades. All that next. Get him. What’s going on, Bulls Nation? Welcome in to the CHO Bulls podcast. Coming to you live from our studios here in West Loop, downtown Chicago. I’m PC. Bulls Peek. That is Big D. Yeah, cursive drama that all you
will go perfectly quafted as always. Will go man. The queen of the controls, the one and only KDW. What up, Katie?
I don’t really know what that was, but I kind of liked it.
Yeah, appreciate the love, fellas.
Just, you know, whatever mood strikes me when I’m saying pow.
You just got to roll with it.
Right on.
Felt like it need a little extra juice today. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s cuz it’s Wednesday, getting close to that Fourth of July weekend. Yeah,
Josh Giddy still hasn’t signed.
No,
I as a Bulls fan I’m choosing to feel good about that
cuz maybe it means AK and Eversley are actually playing a little bit hard
and I like that very much.
So, yeah, I’m in a good mood.
Yeah.
Hope everybody out there in Bulls Nation’s in a good mood. Hit that like button if you’re hanging out with us on the YouTubes. Make sure you’re also subscribed to that CO Sports YouTube channel. 85K ain’t growing.
Uh, also make your move die hard sale still going on as we speak. uh started it uh to coincide with NBA and NHL free agency, which has been a little quiet on the Bulls front so far, but still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take advantage. $36. Sign up now to get access to all that stuff that only the cool Die Hards get.
I’ve got a Die Hard article coming probably tomorrow or Friday. And it’s got a really interesting what I think is creative trade idea that I think you will absolutely hate, Matt.
But does it invol Wayne Wade coming out of retirement? I think it’s the most joyous probably your favorite. Does it involve Grayson Allen possibly?
It doesn’t involve Bradley Beal, does it? And taking him on.
But I think it would be a really good trade and it it’s just like a bigger picture story, but it has a a cool trade idea in it and you guys should sign up so you can read that when it comes.
Go tinker with that trade machine. Tease that Die Hard’s only column dropping later this week.
Uh, all right. So, um, lots to get to today. Let’s dive right into the latest on Josh Giddy, which is crickets. Uh Brian Winhorse was on NBA today yesterday afternoon and said the following quote, “We don’t have any update on Josh Giddy. They’re not coming to a deal anytime soon from what I understand.” End quote. Wendy is one of the people I tend to trust who knows what’s going on. Mhm. So, if we’re hearing both locally and nationally,
there might be a bit of a waiting game here. It kind of makes you wonder like how long of a waiting game before the uh the sides come to a deal cuz I think back to the summer of 23 when the Bulls made their initial moves and then were kind of quiet and then late July we got the news on IO’s new three-year deal. Remember?
That’s true. It was like It was like Yeah, it was like July 20 something.
They waited till we were all on vacation, I believe. Correct. Yeah. I did a IOQ quick hit reaction video from a boat. It was great. Um,
but so that’s absolutely reflex.
Uh, I mean like goat, how are you reading this? If when he says it’s going to be a minute, I tend to trust him that it’s going to be a minute.
I feel like I mean, okay, so we were talking yesterday about like his cryptic Snapchat posting and was he on the plane, all this stuff,
which there are further updates on by the way. Um maybe he was just like coming to town to start the negotiations. Could that be it? Where like we’re I mean the the thing is all the I can’t speak. Uh all the restricted guys have not signed yet. Kuminga does not have an offer sheet. Cam John Cam Thomas does not have an offer sheet. Um Quinton Grimes does not have an offer sheet yet. So uh excuse me. They’ve all gotten extended their qualifying offer, but they have not come to terms on an agreement. That’s because the money that they’re looking for is just not out there. So, um, that’s why the Bulls are in a position to squeeze him a little bit. Again, you don’t have to like piss him off and say like, “You’re getting the mid-level $1 more than the mid-level exception, or else you got to take your qualifying offer.” Like, I don’t think they necessarily need to go that hard. Um, but they are in a position to get him on a deal that is much lower than the offer that he wanted, which was, you know, 150 million or $30 million a year. So, if the Bulls are coming out and saying, “We’ll give you five 1110 or 115 and he’s like, “No, I want 5150. So, if you’re going to make me take less, then maybe I’ll take a 4-year deal instead.” And they’re like, “Well, if we’re going to get you on a four-year deal, then we want to get a better.” So, there’s probably some negotiations going on back and forth there. Um, and ultimately, they will agree to what they agree to. I don’t anticipate Giddy going anywhere. I still think there’s a small chance he does play on the qualifying offer next year just because, um, he might really want to bet on himself and that’s fine. More power to him. I think at the end of the day, if you can get him below 25 million, you’re in good shape. Uh just because the Bulls can probably like $20 million right now is more than anybody else can offer him. And if they could get him on that, I think that’d be great. That’s probably where his value is. That’s like where it would be a value contract to the Bulls. But if you have to go up a little bit above that, it’s not going to kill them. I don’t think um maybe I’ll change my mind on that when the deal is signed for 24 million or whatever. But um yeah, I just think they’re kind of fine-tuning things and and uh part of it is like both sides having to come to terms with where the marketplace actually is. I saw um I think it was Jamal post uh Bull Central post something on Twitter today about like in a vacuum where do you think Giddy’s value is worth? Is it x y or z number 18 to 20 million 20 to 22 20 whatever it was and it’s like you can think about it that way but at the end of the day we don’t live in a vacuum. Like the market does dictate what guys are able to get. You’re only going to be paid what somebody’s willing to offer you. And so right now there is no money out there except for the Bulls money for Josh Giddy.
And like the Bulls want to keep him. I don’t think like they’re necessarily willing to let him walk for nothing, which would be the ultimate like
we can get you for $15 million a year,
but uh they do have a lot of leverage here. And I think that really does matter. Like that completely matters. Yeah. It’s impossible not to factor that in.
I like the fact that it is taking this long.
Mhm.
Um I really do enjoy it that the Bulls are finally operating from a position of power and using every bit of time that they have at their disposal to make the right decision for them and their franchise as they go forward with Josh Giddy being the head. This is the guy they’re paying, excuse me, to be the head of their team. This is the guy that they’re like, whatever contract he signs, unless it’s the qualifying golfer. Tune in for that show. If he signs a four or fiveyear deal, then you’re paying him to be that guy. Because all your draft picks have said, “We’re building around Josh Giddy.” So, if that’s going to be the case, I want to be really truly sure that I am getting the proper value for this player right here. I don’t think they are lowballing him. I think they’re paying him, like you said, what the market is dictate dictating. At least that’s how I feel that they’re approaching it. So, of course, Giddy’s is going to want 30 plus million dollars. He should and he should ask for 30 plus million. And the Bulls should say, “Yeah, all right. That’s funny. How about this?” And that’s where the negotiation should be. and they should be starting. Take all the time you need. This I’m in no rush. Take all the time you need to come to the right decision and something you have to feel good with Bulls cuz it is very rare that they have been able to operate from a position of power. And they have to get this right. They traded Kuso their biggest asset for this young man. They have to get this right. And I’m glad that they’re approaching it this way. I mean Jake Fischer’s latest that had some other tidbits we’ll get to later mentioned he referred to it as giddy still seeking an average annual value of 30 millionish. I’m sure I’m sure that’s where they started
and and like that right that’s where they started. I’m saying and kind of as you just said Dave like the longer this goes the more confident I as a Bulls fan feel that they won’t end up giving him that figure. Right. Like whereas a part of me was legitimately terrified that they were just going to throw him 5 years 150 cuz they could
cuz they could. I think the bigger thing is like so he obviously started at 5150. Again, all power to you. You should do that. The Bulls probably started somewhere at like
I don’t know 5125 or like 5100 or something and he wasn’t willing to take that. But now we’re at a place where they could have been negotiating since the end of the finals. Mhm.
So, they had a couple of days before free agency start. I think a week actually. Um, and so maybe at that point, Giddy’s like, “All right, well, let me just see what the market is looking like. I’ll see if there are any other teams that have money that want to pay me.” We’re at a point now where those teams are now not existing. And so, if you’re the bulls, what you can do is say, “We said 5125, but now we’re actually going to go 5100.”
And Giddy’s like, “Well, you just offered me 5125. Like, can’t we at least?” So, they do have a lot of leverage here. And I think that’s where you would run into issues of like Giddy getting frustrated, right? Cuz it’s like, well, now you’re pulling the offer that you previously gave me. Yeah.
And again, like
that’s just the nature of
the game,
how it is played right now based on the marketplace. And that I really I do think that is
at like the that’s the bottom line.
That’s the bottom line.
The market is dictating that
that’s not those offers aren’t going to be available to him. when uh when Michael’s trying to negotiate his raise with corporate in the office and he’s talking to Jan who is also at the time his girlfriend andb and she’s just like I just need you to ask for 15% raise so I can record that you ask for it and then I’ll give you 12. He’s like okay give me 15. She’s like no we can give you 12. And he’s like but you just said 15. Um, but look, I I do think this is generally pointing to hopefully a positive resolution. And who knows, maybe that wild card qualifying offer that they thought that one year prove a deal is still out there.
I do want to say one more thing on this.
Sure.
I think that a lot of times it’s hard to divorce the idea of the asset cost from the player, right? We did this with V. Everybody was mad at Vu because the Bulls gave up Wendell Carter and two first round picks. Really, it was the two first round picks that people were concerned about. I’m I like Wendell. I think he’s a fine player. whatever. Um, and then it was the same thing with VU when he signed the extension. Like this guy got more than what the market was dictating he should get because there were no other offers out there.
And so I think like in some senses taking less for Giddy would benefit him in the eyes of the fan base where it’s like
easier to accept the fact that
you have him now or appreciate him now because he’s on a contract that is valuable. Yes. Where it’s not like preventing you from doing other things. Like you see what happens in Milwaukee right now. People are going to be pissed at Damen Lillard because he’s costing them $22.5 million per year for the next 5 years. That’s impacting their flexibility to go out and sign other guys. And the same thing is true with Giddy. If he signs for more, it’s different margins, but like even 20, you could think about it the same way like 22.5 million for Giddy is impacting the Bulls from doing other things. Not to say that dead money on the books in Milwaukee is the same as Giddy, but I do think that like the more team friendly of a deal it is probably the better for his perception, which again like if you’re somebody that’s has a chance to make a hundred plus million dollars, like I don’t really care about perception at that point, but I do think that that’s a factor.
No, you’re right. Because it also gives him a chance to uh overplay it. You know what I’m saying? That’s what the team should be overachieve it. And f like you said, more fans will absolutely get behind you if that’s going to be the case for a guy like Josh Giddy. If like, oh man, triple double machine, oh man, some all-star appearances, you know, flirt with some AllNBAs, you know, and stuff like that. Oh my god, people like, we got a steal. We got a bargain. We got a deal. And so when it’s next time around for him, maybe more people are behind him getting a hugger deal and a bigger contract for how he played cuz Chicago is hungry and thirsty. for both to root for somebody on this team and just have give all their love that they have for this team into a player. And you’re right, if he signs that kind of contract and he starts uh playing well or continues to play well like we saw, it will be Josh Giddy that will be on the receiving end of all that love from Bulls Nation.
Uh almighty one in the comments saying three years 65 mil perfect contract for Giddy. Honestly, I don’t hate those years and and dollars as far as all the different ideas I’ve heard tossed around. Okay. Uh hopeful gamer saying there’s currently eight players from Gay’s draft class making 30 plus million a year. A further four make it 20 plus million. Him and Kaminga are going to feel pretty burnt if they don’t sign for at least 25. Well, guess what?
It is what it is.
Like it’s like nothing to do with it.
My friend over there is making this and like well they they were in a position to be offered that and they took it and if he wants to take the qualifying offer and put himself in a position where there will be more money out there for him, that’s a risk that he is allowed to take.
Right. Uh, real quick before we go to break, shout out to our guy Matt as in of Matt and Neil. He read UK.
Yeah, my guy.
Further Twitter, uh, internet, social media, sleuththing. Giddy was not on a Chicago bound flight the other day. I think he was flying from somewhere in Australia to Brisbane, Australia, because Matt H found evidence that he was in fact doing a meet and greet yesterday, July 1st, in Brisbane.
So, he did not fly to Chicago yesterday.
Did not.
As of today, I don’t know, but there’s the latest update in where the world is. Carmen Josh Giddy. Listen to these ads. Hit the like. We’ll be right back. Rules of life. Enjoy Fourth of July. Eat some barbecue. Don’t touch the quaff. Don’t run up on KD. Don’t touch Matt on his back. Never touch me, period. And don’t get biffed. Don’t get biffed. All right? Do not go to these big box stores and hear a 16-year-old. You need help with Florence? He don’t know what he talking about. Go ahead and get the flooring experts that you can get at Empire today. Dedicated flooring professionals whose focus is on flooring every single day of the week. They’ll give you clear, upfront, and all-inclusive pricing right at your house. And you can schedule installation as soon as the next day. Schedule that free in the home estimate today because some things are just better at home. CHGO listeners out there, $350 discount is what you can receive when you use the code CHGO. That’s a $350 discount with the code CHGO. Restricted apply. Visit empiretoday.com/cjl for fulls details 5882300. Empire today. Today’s show also brought to you by Mando.
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rolling right along. Here’s the Bulls Pod on a Wednesday afternoon, day three of NBA free agency as we just discussed in uh segment one. Still nothing doing on Josh Giddy. Uh that doesn’t mean there isn’t other other things doing around the NBA. Hit that like button by the way uh if you didn’t do it during the ad break. Um, next thing on deck is also from Jake Fischer’s latest for the Stein line. Um, mentioning Chicago as one of the few teams who still, as of like this morning, is getting brought up frequently when it comes to Kaminga. Quote, “The Bulls are nonetheless bound to keep coming up in connection with Kaminga until there is a resolution to his status, given they have previously expressed interest in the athletic swingman.” in the past trade discussions involving Alex Caruso and Zack Lavine. Um I I don’t know if I forgot those details or never knew those details that Kaminga was involved in previous trade discussions of both Zach and Alex. Did you know that goat?
I didn’t.
Uh yeah,
I think uh I think
of course I don’t think it was ever. But I think that’s that was one of the names that bulls were asking about in the Cruso trade. Um and it would have had to have been in a Zack Leavine trade last year. Okay.
So, it wasn’t so much explicit as it was implicit, but I definitely had heard that.
Meaning that the Bull the Bulls were talking to the Warriors about trading the Warriors Caruso and then Zack.
The Caruso thing was a couple years ago.
Okay.
When they could have traded him at the deadline.
I do remember that one.
And then last year they had sniffed around Lavine before trading for Jimmy.
Okay. Yeah,
they were they were thinking about could we get uh could we get Vu and Lavine is what I heard.
I got you. So, you know, he he said the addition of Aen in the draft, the addition of Aoro in the trade for Lonzo would seem to leave little room for Kaminga to still be, as Fischer called it, the Bulls orbit. But he said their name keeps coming up with Kaminga because there’s some previous interest. Uh the other teams he mentioned being interested or involved, Pelicans and Kongs.
The Kongs are always there.
Kong Kong Kong
hanging around.
Uh we talked about Kaminga on our Monday show this week because it’s something that keeps coming up and here it comes up again. I like I would just with my own educated guessing put the odds of this actually happening at slim to none.
Okay. But why is it that is it just because Kaminga has not found a resolution yet of where he’s ending up and why like there people are just throwing darts on a board to say hey which teams want Kaminga?
I’m sure his agent is doing some work there trying to get him connected with teams. Obviously there has been a connection in the past with the Bulls. So that’s an easier one and they have space. They’re one of the teams that could make it work especially in a signin trade. Um Tyson Rolando asks Vuch Pew and a first for Kuminga. Is that enough? And the answer is that is just very difficult in terms of making it work legally within the salary cap and the restrictions there. We talked about base year compensation um and how the Warriors could basically only take back half of what they’re sending out. So if Kuminga signs for 25 million, they can only take back 12 a.5 and so Kobe really is the only matching salary. I suppose it could be IO uh or Aoro. Um and they have a a smallish trade exception that would be able to fit IO in. So maybe Aoro and uh IO. Mhm. Could be a deal there. Um, but I think for me it’s just like what does the fit look like with the Bulls and is that worth it? And I think as we discussed the other day, I’m just not really seeing it. Like I don’t really love the fit there. Especially I mean I guess if you send out Aora, but it’s like a bunch of wings who can’t shoot um led by a guard who can’t shoot. Like that’s just not a recipe for success. And it’s not like I’m not saying that poratively, but it’s like you look at the success that the Thunder had. They’re playing five out spacing. the Pacers are playing five out spacing. You can’t roll out a lineup with Giddy, Kuminga, Modis, Asen,
and a center and expect to like compete at the highest level. It’s not like saying that anything about those guys except for the fact that that’s just a difficult roster build. And I think it’s good to bring in talent. Like the Bulls should be trying to find ways to do that.
Yeah.
But at the end of the day, you got to put a product out there and that floor spacing would be hard to navigate. I think also I mean they’ve made their decision on Billy Donovan. So for me that’s kind of where the buck stops. So if Kaminga comes in and doesn’t you know you know adhere to what the Bulls are doing then what’s the point? You know what I mean? Because it’s about what Billy Donovan’s offense is period. That’s it. So he’s told you dribble, pass, shoot. That’s what we want these guys that to be able to do. We want to run. That’s exactly how we want to play this game. So, if Kaminga is a guy that, you know, isn’t really that, he’s definitely a give me the ball and I will dunk on everybody and I will hit difficult shots and I will use my length and my athleticism to score. Yeah. Billy’s like, that’s cool, but that’s not really the style that we’re running here. And we just signed this guy to a new contract to actually run the offense that I want him to run. So, if he’s not going to fit into that, and again, I don’t see the fit uh more so than anything, more so than the money, more so than the player, I’m just really truly looking at the fit of Jonathan Kaminga, cuz he can play. Like, there’s no doubt about it. There wouldn’t be this commotion around someone who who was trash. So, he can definitely get down. He could definitely play, but fit is very important for the Chicago Bulls and what they’re trying to do. And that continuity, that word is very important for the Chicago Bulls when they get out there on that floor. And it just feels like just looking just a guy, you know, looking on the out from the outside in that that fit is not a thing that can happen here in Chicago with Kaminga with the Chicago Bulls. Great player. I think he can ball. I just don’t see it fitwise.
Uh who was it? I just had in the comments um oh it was our guy Fish. what I fish saying uh that you know the Warriors don’t want Vu so who who would the Bulls send back hypothetically in the signing trade and you were kind of touching on that a little bit earlier goat Fiser did also touch on that in his latest write up saying the Warriors appear to have moved away from their interest previously registered in BH obviously at this past season’s uh trade deadline when there was a lot of that talk going around um obviously they appear to be zeroing in on Horford so if that is in fact what they are doing even though that news hasn’t broken no need for vouch. So, the Bulls would have to figure out other pieces.
Just on the the center carousel briefly, um DeAndre Aiden is set to clear waiverss at 5:00 p.m. today in 37 minutes. Um
I expect him to quickly sign with one of the Pacers or the Lakers.
I’m hearing Lakers from Mark Stein was reporting that Lakers.
Um so, I think that’s the hold up on Horford. So, if Aiden goes to the Pacers, then I think Horford will sign with the Lakers. And I think that will leave the Warriors a little bit high and dry, maybe like Chris Buché or maybe they look for a trade. Um, if Aton goes to the Lakers, then I think Horford goes to the Warriors and that leaves the Pacers in a position where maybe they need to make a trade or bring in Chris Buché. So, um, there’s still some musical chairs yet to be played, uh, in the center rotation just because there’s not a lot of guys out there. And so, I think once that happens, maybe some interest in V starts to generate.
But again, I think more likely than not, V is going to be around next year just because it’s hard to move that much money. I mean, if the Warriors are more focused on winning now, which I think they are, wouldn’t it behoove them to go with a guy like Vu over Al Horford? No.
Explain.
Uh, I just think Horford like
it’s a 42 year old dude we talking about.
Yeah. Yeah. No, you’re right. I think I think they’re even if you think of them as equivalent basketball players,
I think the money is just going to be I mean he’s going to sign for like the mid-level half of the mid-level exception or something like that’s going to be half of what
at most half of what Vu is making next year. I think that the contract VU is on just makes it really hard to move. And so even aside from them as players, which honestly like I don’t even think it’s worth really getting into because the contract is just so much more favorable at that number. And that’s why like signing the three-year deal, not getting a player uh not getting a team option on that, those are like things that in the moment don’t seem like they hurt, but on in the bigger picture, those are the margins that you’re losing. And so you have to be careful about that stuff. Okay.
Uh people in the comments still can’t get over getting negotiation stuff. Uh where are we Katie? Are we good? We need to go to break.
No, you still got like five minutes.
Okay, cool. Sorry. I just wasn’t sure. Um I mean somebody was just saying like uh Giddy for you know 26 so he’s only $8 million better than Patrick Williams. Somebody else mentioned like are we really you know jerking Giddy’s chain around after giving Pat all that money. I think what Bulls fans need to remember is that the like the former informs the latter. The Bulls are taking their time on Giddy if that’s what they’re doing. Many kudos to them because they overpaid Patrick Williams bidding against only themselves. Mhm.
Also, like you say that as if Patrick Williams is in fact worth $18 million a year.
He not.
I think also Yeah, exactly. Like a lot of a lot of the guards are like, “Look, Emanuel Quickley got $32.5 million per year. That’s what I want.” And it’s like, “Okay, I can see why you would start there.” But it’s like, “We can’t just say okay to that because another guy got it. That’s a bad contract. We don’t want to have bad contracts.” And especially with the cap and the rules going the way that they are and the cap not rising as much as we thought it would next year, like it’s even more important to get guys on team friendly contracts that aren’t going to uh just be really damaging to your cap sheet. And so having one bad contract on your books is too many. Like you look at these teams that are built really well. The Rockets have zero bad contracts on their books. Every single player on their team has a good contract. They just got Van Vleet to take a huge pay cut to make everything possible. Um, the Thunder, no bad contracts.
The Pacers had no bad contracts. Now they’re missing a couple of good contracts, but
you it’s really hard to build a deep team with star players with bad contracts on your books. It’s almost impossible. And so like getting one of those is damaging enough. Adding another is a non-starter. And so I think that’s where the Bulls have to be like
again not willing to like let him walk for nothing necessarily but willing to hold their ground a little bit because they can’t afford to make another mistake and that’s what the Patrick contract was.
Um Tyson Rolando meanwhile in the chat asking is there any benefit to keeping Vu? I take anything of value at this point and runs Zack Collins at center for a season. Um, I mean, benefit to keeping Vu, wellrespected vet, dude’s an iron man. Talk about availability over his entire Bulls tenure.
Mhm.
That dude plays every night.
Yeah, he does.
Um, and he’s a walking, you know, 18 and 10, some nights 25 and 10,
four assists with it, right? Like he is not bad in the way that a lot of Bulls fans have made him out to be for various reasons over his Bulls tenure.
We see you see red Fred. He’s a quality player. There’s a reason he is a former allstar. He good.
He can ball
and he helps the younger guys get better. Like he’s a really good screener. He’s a good ball mover. He’s a good passer. He spaces the floor. He attacks closeouts. He pulls defenses away from the paint. Like there’s a lot of stuff
which is why a team like the playoff aspirations warriors looking to, you know, pump things up a bit in their mid-season trade talks. We’re interested in him
cuz he’s good.
But that fell apart. And the question, can they get anything of value for him now? Should have traded him when you had the chance. Should have killed me when you had the chance, Charles. We got to knock out some more ads when we come back on the other side. We’re talking to Bob Schmidt, host of Fear of the Fro, a Cavaliers podcast to talk some Isaac Oro. Hit the like. Today’s show brought to you by Arena Club. Arena Club is changing the hobby with their transparent slab packs and no fee auctions. You got to check out these slab packs, y’all. could rip a pack for as low as $25 and hit on a card that’s worth tens of thousands of dollars. Damn. But even still, every pack has grails, they call them, that are at least 20 times the price of the pack itself.
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Thank you guys. Glad to be here. It’s uh it’s fun to be on uh on your turf for a change after big.
Glad to have you here. All right. No pressure, but your job right now is to talk any skeptical Bulls fans out there into Isaac Aoro still having a huge untapped ceiling that we did not see in Cleveland and to make us like the player for player swap trade with Lonzo more than we did last weekend and more than we do right now. Initial thoughts on Aoro.
Okay, I I’ll sell you I’ll try to sell you from be your angle. Okay, my first pitch would be this. Uh Isaac Aoro, while not a stat sheet stuffer necessarily, has shown steady improvement year-over-year. Um last year, despite the minutes and the usage shrinking after getting that payday prior to his injury at the end of the calendar year last year, he was one of the top two three-point shooters in the league. He was just under 50% before that shoulder injury happened. Now, the numbers, they calmed down after that, but season over season, uh, he’s gotten better in that area, and that certainly when they drafted him, the focus was, okay, defensively, they expected him to be an immediate impact player, but the offense was super raw. I think the the issue in Cleveland that perhaps does not exist in Chicago is largely opportunity. Um, in an environment of Cleveland where you have a bunch of people offensively who are going to be prioritized, I think the biggest criticism of Isaac would be that he wasn’t guarded when it would matter from outside the arc despite what the percentages would indicate and that he wasn’t the most assertive player offensively. I think it’s a better environment for him to be in in terms of Chicago for perhaps empowering him to be a little bit more aggressive in looking for his own. The second thing I would say is Isaac Aoro was one of the players on our roster who thrived in transition. Now our pace was greater last year, but in previous iterations under the Bicker Staff Cavs, that was largely wasted uh with Isaac. I believe I don’t think that’s the case in Chicago. I think you’re much more capable team of running up tempo. Uh and I do believe you’ll see better results from Isaac. In terms of contractually, I think it definitely benefited the Cavs uh to acquire Lonzo for multiple reasons. One is their hopes that he can stay healthy and be on the court. Um but secondly, they were in a much worse situation to be able to commit $11 million to Isaac Aoro in the second apron crunch that they’re in. Chicago being in the phase of, you know, their build, their rebuild, however you want to deem it, uh, it’s it’s less critical for them to extract maximum value out of that $11 million in a way that Cleveland to to sign a guy to the biggest contract he’s been on and then immediately play him the least amount of minutes that he had in his entire career, it was a trend going in the wrong direction. So, I don’t think Chicago has those issues necessarily. Ju just so you know for further reference Bob we’re not allowed to use that that word around here rhymes with schnebuild our executives are not a fan of using that word just so you know
retooling there you go
blowning up for the next dynasty oh and now we’re off the train first of all it’s good to see you bro good to see you my man
um when we were when we were talking we you and I were discussing about Isaac Auroro and you were talking about being him being assertive. One of the thing you said was he how passive he was on the offensive end as far as when it came to shooting. Could you go into that a little more like what was what was the reason kind of behind him being that passive especially on that end when you can show those stats where yeah he would he started hitting his threes a little bit more but then just not being assertive in that way. Yeah, I think I think that’s a problem that’s not limited to just Isaac on the Cavs roster. You you get a team that has guys like Dean and Isaac Aoro and if you were to look at the stats, you’d say, “Okay, those are reasonably decent, at least average three-point shooters.” And Isaac’s numbers would believe make you believe that. I mean, the fact that he was high 40% for the first half of the season was great, but couple of qualifiers there. The Cavs as a team were had their best offensive season in forever and they had multiple guys up and down the roster. You know, their top six, seven guys all flirting with higher than 40% three-point shooting or just below it. So, there was there was some qualifying there of saying, okay, the system is giving him the opportunity to make more of these. But I I think the issue with Isaac and all these guys has been, you know, will they take the shots when they’re open and they get it or or will they defer despite possibly having the best look? Now, there’s been moments, the gamewinner, Aoro hit two seasons ago against Brooklyn. Although, even in that situation, it was a scramble at the end, a loose ball. Levert throws it to the corner. He had no choice but to put it up. And that was a massive moment because there was a huge storyline heading into last season, not this past season where he signed the extension, um, but the one before that about how much work Isaac had put into his outside shot and not necessarily just catch and shoot, but you know, catch, reposition, put it up, like the the types of things where he’ll never be deemed as a a movement shooter, I don’t think. But to be able to do even a little bit more than just camp out in the corner is something that everybody wanted to see from Isaac in terms of above the break stuff. And I do think you saw pretty reasonable results. The issue has always been volume. Uh because you can be a 40% three-point shooter, but if you’re barely putting them up, guys are going to take those chances cuz even on a night where you go two for three from outside the arc, where you go three for five, it’s just it’s not a big enough quantity that it’s going to hurt the other team. Um, I do think Isaac in transition, that’s kind of really where I feel like he’s at his best because he doesn’t overthink it. Um, he has kind of a nice euroep and the fact that he has some bulk to him allows him to, you know, put his body into people and convert a lot of those looks in transition. He can make good reads going downhill. I don’t think that that’s as much of a problem. The fact is though, he just doesn’t have the ball in his hands a lot in terms of initiating. U, but that’s been a problem for a lot of the role players for the Cavs. I think that there needs to be some focus on the fact that the shoulder injury took him a long time to kind of overcome in terms of the shots in the immediate aftermath of when he returned. Like if you look at the I went to the Oklahoma City game where the Cavs got the doors kicked in and that was maybe Isaac’s worst three-point shooting game of the season, but he was fresh off an injury. The optimistic part of that was that he put up eight three-point attempts. only hit one of them. It hit the side of the backboard on one of them. It wasn’t it wasn’t at that moment, but it was the fact that he put that many up because they were giving him the looks, which is really all you can ask for in a guy who you’re still trying to develop and you’re trying to make at least an offensive component that you have to respect. You don’t have to fear him necessarily, but you can’t have people sagging off of him in the playoffs and clogging up the lane because if you guys watch the Cavs playoffs this year, it’s just Donovan throwing himself into a wall of people at the rim again and again and again. And that’s not a sustainable pattern. Uh if you’re hoping for success and it was not reminiscent of anything that they saw with the Kenny Atinson offense in the regular season, it devolved into far too much, you know, hero mode Donovan Mitchell in the playoffs. We we’ve got some breaking news here at to the Lakers which we will talk about after this. But Bob, I’m curious just from your perspective being on the ground in Cleveland, what is sort of or what was heading into this off season the narrative around Okoro with regards to the cap situation? Because I’m curious like was he somebody that you guys were thinking you might have to incentivize another team to take off your hands? Was there a thought that maybe he could make some sort of return like this? Um, and I’m curious about Lonzo and your opinions about his fit there, too. But the idea that they could turn Aoro into Lonzo, allowing them to get off of Tai Jerome and clear out some of the space that way seemed like a good piece of business on their end. But I’m kind of curious if Cleveland like media was was thinking about it that same way. You got a lot of talk in Cleveland about possibly having to move off of Isaac and Dean. Now Dean, there was less idea that you would have to grease him with picks or draft capital, which the Cavs don’t have a lot of anyway after the Donovan Mitchell Utah trade. So it was a situation where my belief anyway going in was yeah, Isaac with two years left at 11 million coming off his his lowest season in terms of minutes that he was out there. I don’t know in this environment where we’ve seen and and I don’t know if you share this perception, but I feel like what’s happened in this new CBA environment is when we get to free agency, there’s so many of these guys, these vets who can provide capable minutes, your Gary Trent Junior’s, your Malik Beasley’s last year, these guys who shift to the bottom end of the, you know, just above the taxpayer mid-level exception, maybe six million a season. So, I feel sort of similarly about Sam. Honestly, there’s a part of me that feels like given what we’ve seen in the market, I think the Cavs could have maybe pressed their advantage a little bit more, rode that out, maybe got him for less than a 9 and a half average annual value. But as it specifically relates to Isaac, having a guy who’s so low in your pecking order and who some games wouldn’t even be utilized at all, taking up $11 million of cap in a tax environment where dollar for dollar that may be, you know, 30 $40 million makes it the situation where I assumed almost certainly that the Cavs would have to bundle assets with him to get rid of him if they were dumping him into somebody else’s space. Now, as it speaks to Lonzo, I’m ecstatic. And it has nothing to do with Lonzo the basketball player. Just the idea that you guys at last trade that line, there was all that talk about Marcus Smart and maybe getting back a draft pick for the sake of absorbing bad money. And I like the extension you did because the team option essentially provides an out from the issue that Isaac’s salary presented. And the bar is very low for Lonzo to clear in terms of how much usage do we have to get out of him for him to be able to replace what Isaac provided for us. He’ll never be the defender that Isaac is, but most of the maneuvers the Cavs have made in this off season have been to focus on trying to get a little bit more what you would deem as two-way players. Guys who he’s not the defender Isaac is is, but he’s capable. He’s a solid defender when he’s on the floor. He may not be on the floor, but worst case scenario, if you go to the trade deadline with either Isaac Aoro with a year and a half left at over $11 million a season or Lonzo Ball, let’s say he doesn’t even set foot on the basketball floor until February, you have a virtual expiring that then you can probably get off a lot easier without having to bundle draft assets with it. Wow. Obviously, my hope is that Lonzo will provide something of value on the basketball court if his health does not betray him. Uh, and I think there’s a lot of potential there, but just when you compare it contractually, I understand why the Cavs did it. When you compare it in terms of what they needed, especially now that we know that Tai Jerome ended up departing, I think it makes a lot of sense in that regard, too. Um, I I I think Isaac is somewhat a victim of circumstances, though, because while I view his his value of his contract in the Cavs infrastructure where they’re getting crushed into the Second Apron, as something that they probably needed to get off of, I don’t view it the same when set against the backdrop of your situation, both where you are competitively and from a salary situation. It’s interesting you mention victim of circumstances, Bob, because that’s what Bulls fans have been talking about with Patrick Williams, you know, taking one spot before Isaac Aoro in the 2020 draft. They’ve been talking about that with Pat for years. And as Dave dubbed this most recent season for Pat after signing a fresh contract, the no excuses tour, he had perhaps his most underwhelming season yet.
Tour was Bob. A lot of people are kind of, you know, myself included, saying, “I see a redundancy here for the Bulls acquiring Aoro. We already have a high lottery pick from 2020 whose offensive game is underwhelming and who like hangs his hat on defense. His name is Patrick Williams. Why do we need Isaac Aoro? I’m curious though if you see a higher ceiling, not untapped offensive potential. We know the weaknesses of Coro’s game, but of him tr turning into a truly elite defensive player, like getting legit votes for all defensive teams in future seasons kind of player cuz the Bulls can certainly use as much help as they can get right now on the defensive end, especially after trading not only Caruso but Lonzo Ball.
Yeah. I mean, I think my feeling has always been that Aoro is a fantastic defender and especially if I don’t love it as much when he’s been forced into these situations where he has to guard up, but in the matchups against, you know, the Damen Lillards, the Trey Young’s, the the guards, that’s where I think he can really shine. So in a situation where he’s able to log significant minutes as a two more so than a three and guarding those elite kind of shifty guards, not necessarily the taller like to get these matchups in the playoffs against Tatum and Paulo Beno for as good as Isaac is for as stout as he is, for as strong as he is, I don’t think those do him any favors because the one complaint I have and of course I’m sure any Cav fan, any home team fan would say this of their own player. I think Isaac is very fundamentally sound defensively. I do not think he’s given the same leash from a referee perspective of guys like Alex Caruso and Drew Holiday when it comes to physicality. Now, if he if if that turned the corner, if he got the respect as a truly elite defender, which I think maybe only will come with extended minutes on the court, um then I I I think he can be one of the best point of attack defenders in the league. I think that’s possible, but I didn’t feel like he necessarily got that benefit of the doubt with the rest. And a lot of times when it comes to perceptions and reputations as to who is truly the the best defenders in the league, a lot of times it does somewhat come down to how those guys are officiated. Whether that be, you know, Draymond Green or Caruso. I mean, you see how Pacers fans reacted to the level of physicality that a guy like Caruso is able to play with or or really all the Oklahoma City guys uh for the most part, Dort and some of the other guys. So, I think a lot of it depends on that and I think there’s a better chance of that happening. Sometimes I feel like with these lowminute off thebench guys, uh, refs will just let the whistles fly, but when they’re getting extended minutes and when the scrutiny is going to be on them for running a guy, for for fouling people out of the game, then sometimes they get a little more liberty in terms of being able to play through things that otherwise would have been called personal fouls. Bob, we got to run. We appreciate the time. Uh, Bulls fans, if you’re curious what the Cavs are up to, check it out. Fear the Fro, a Cavs podcast. Fear the fropod on Twitter. Find them wherever you find your pods. Bob, you do great work on that stuff, man. We’ll talk to you again hopefully after we get a sample size of a Cororo games in a Bulls jersey. All right,
I look forward to it. Thank you guys.
All right, man. Take care. Happy holidays. All right, Bulls fans ads. When we come back, react to a little bit.
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is not accepting the current volume of likes. There are 310 people watching. There are 81 likes. What are you doing?
What are you doing? What are you doing?
Really? Unacceptable.
Come on, guys. You’re better than that.
Come on now.
You better than that.
For some reason, got me very excited to go to Vegas for summer league because I’m curious to see how Katie is more when she’s not worried about getting likes on our live stream. Like,
why do you think I’m not going to be worried about likes?
I think you will be, but we’re going to see more of you when that’s not your primary concern. Oh, you’re saying you’re going to see me as
I’m going to see you in your in the wild a little bit more.
He’s going to see other angles of Katie.
I’m going to walk around concerned about number. That’s what I’m saying. I’m assuming that’s not going to happen. Maybe I’m wrong.
Yeah, maybe I’ll just walk around Summerly.
But speaking Speaking in the meantime, hit the like.
Vegas the the the likes to viewers ratio goat. It’s almost as improbable as what did you call it? A mathematical anomaly.
That was an anomaly.
We were at the roulette table that one night and it came up. Was red or black? Like a dozen times in a row or something.
It was red for sure. Goat was flabbergasted.
His brain was breaking in front of us. It was the best.
This man believed in numbers. Yeah, man.
Um, all right. So, uh, shout out again to Bob Schmidt, Fear the Fro. It’s awesome. If you want to just check in on the Bull Central Division uh, foes from time to time. And as we were just saying during the break, my god, incredible voice.
That is a radio voice. That’s coming from Matt Peg.
Yeah, that’s right. I got one, too. It’s not that good. Um, we were going to talk some draft grades that were given out to the Bulls on Noah Zenge from various outlets, but we can put a pin in that, maybe talk about that tomorrow. Let’s react to the Shams bomb that happened as you quickly mentioned. Go while we were talking to Bob. We’ll talk to Bob Sham Shirana. DeAndre Aiden has agreed to sign with the LA Lakers. Between the Portland buyout money and the Lakers, Aiden will earn 34 million next season. Shout out.
Uh, Lakers find their starting center. So,
our guy uh Jake Fischer followed up with it’s a 2-year 16.6 million agreement with Aiden player option on the second year. So, uh kind of interesting from the Lakers perspective cuz there was the conversation about them being players uh cap space players in 2027. That didn’t really make sense because you have Austin Reeves low cap hold in 26, but now they’re adding Lavravia and Aiden and it’s like 14 million combined for that year. It’s not that much, but like does cut into it and that was why they didn’t bring back Dorian Finny Smith for two years. So, just kind of a weird
play in terms of their cap sheet, but um I mean they really needed a center. They needed talent.
Um I don’t know defensively what that’s going to look like with him and Luca and Reeves out there together, but uh I mean this is kind of what we were expecting, right? But still, um interesting to think about how it would actually translate on on the hardwood. Yeah. I mean, you’re right. Defensively, no. That’s going to be tough, but they needed something like and I think that’s why they just kind of threw caution to that win as far as contracts and all that stuff.
It’s such a Lakers move in now.
They need a you know, the Lakers are going to get a name like first and foremost. They’re going to get a name. But they truly truly needed this. They needed the center to be there for them. So, yeah, what better person than a guy who, you know, is going to give you at least 18 points and 10 12 rebounds. you know, a guy who, you know, can space the floor a little bit for you and can just dominate in that paint area. So, if Luca’s tired to get his thing, here you go. There you are, DeAndre. He can go to work. So, offensively, there’s tons and tons of things that they can do. It’s just defensively, they’ve got some questions they’ve got to answer because they’re not going to be able to run all the time. And the team that they’re chasing are great on both sides of the ball. So, that’s going to definitely be an issue. But I mean, just on the surface, it’s it’s like, you know, a guy working out strictly on, you know what I’m saying, his chest, but and then got those little skinny legs cuz he spent no time on those. That’s what you got right here. They’re very topheavy right now on the offensive side, and they’ve got to find something on the defensive end.
Uh Brian Genesis saying Lakers going to get run through the league with no defense in the comments. Uh Dysfunctional saying Lakers are the new drama team. Yeah, like that was my first thought when I saw that uh news that he’s going to Lakers and like that was expected now it’s official. I was like should we should we put the clock on now for how many days? How many games before LeBron blames DeAndre Aiden?
Oo subtly but not so subtly for all of the Lakers problems. Maybe the Lakers hit a little mid-season skid only a game or two above 500 on the outside looking in slotted for the play in tournament.
I didn’t think that you know that’s where this is going.
No, I I wasn’t even thinking on that. You’re right. You hit that on the head, bro. Like, it’s going to happen. Very teammates and other problems that LeBron has pointed his fingers at over his thing. It’s his jam.
Aiden just lined himself up in the LeBron line of fire.
I mean, we got to voluntarily. Everybody’s got to do their part on defense. Like, you hear you get to hear it. You’ll get to hear it right now, man. Yeah. Oh, man. He’s in for one. But, I mean, it’s LA. It’s the Lakers, you know? So, if he just plays well on one side,
like bigger pressure, bigger stakes. I’m just saying he plays does his thing on one side of the ball. He can get he could probably get away with some stuff. And I mean JJ Reic has got his work cut out for him, you know, but he can put him in positions where he’s just like, “Look, go be tall.”
Reick and Aiden never overlapped as teammates, right? I’m think. But I don’t think so. I don’t believe so. But it’s it’s a really good question. I would love for that to be the case. Um but yeah, man. Like it’s the move they had to make. I think that’s the bottom line of it. like they really had to make this move and get somebody at that position. So yeah, Luca, Aiden, and LeBron. I mean, that’s not terrible. It’s not a terrible thing. They were in the East, they be running it right now, but unfortunately they’re in the West.
Yeah. And I I wonder what this means for like the rest of the center. We talked about like the center carousel and who’s going to end up where. Um obviously he was the big name. He was the big name. You still got Horford and I would imagine he signs shortly here with the Warriors.
The Pacers are in need of a center.
They tried to sign Aiden a couple years ago. They gave him the max offer sheet.
They did. They sure did. I remember.
Also hilarious that the number one matched. Is that what happened?
Exactly.
Mhm. Also funny that the uh what was it 2017 draft going first?
They got going third and neither of them. They’re on the same team in a different situation than both of those.
Oh, LeBron. Um, but yeah, I wonder who the Pacers are going to go after. I think the Celtics are another team that kind of needs to figure out center. They lose Cornet. They’re losing Horford. They trade Porzingis. They got Luca Garza.
They’re they’re slightly above the second
stacks on stacks on stacks.
So, I don’t see them being a vouch team, but like the Pacers could be. They wanted to pay
Pacers could be
uh Miles Turner 20 million 22 whatever it was. That’s in the V range. And you know, the Pacers love bigs who can space the floor. They need a big who can space the floor and they need some like offensive production without Hallebertton. I think Vu can give you more of that than Miles Turner can. So that could be an option. I don’t know exactly what the money would be in terms of uh salary coming back, but um yeah, there’s just not a lot of other teams that are in need of a center right now. I think the other thing with the Warriors is they don’t have a lot of salary they can uh put together which is why I thought the like lay the groundwork thing was always just made up because like they were losing all their matching salary. They lost Gary Payeyton, they lost Kavon Looney. Those were the guys that were probably going to end up coming back. Um and Moody’s only making 11 and frankly I think they would probably rather have Moody. Um, I just don’t know where Vu ends up other than back in Chicago. But the Pacers could be a sneaky just like, you know, hold us over while Hal Burns out. We don’t want to tank. And while we figure out a long-term solution, got two guys, Wiseman and Isaiah Jackson, coming off of Achilles tears. Maybe V could be a guy there.
No, it’s a perfect fit in my opinion. I mean, like you said, just a holdover. Again, this is a one-year deal when you’re getting a guy like Vouch. That’s it. It’s going to be a one-year thing. We’ll see what it is after that, but for that one year, he can definitely hold you down while you’re getting everything together. And again, they have a really good coach there as well in a guy like Rick Carile, man. So, yeah, I I think it could work for sure, him going to to the Pacers. I don’t think he won’t have to change uh too much about his game. Matter of fact, they’ll be more reliant on it because they need us. They need scoring power, you know, not having Tyrese there. they only need his little point guardsmanship that he can do, you know, from that free throw line extended, getting guys involved, being a connective kind of passer, uh, for those guys. So, no, VS would fit really well for a one-year flyer for a team that, let’s say, they still, you know, may want to try to take a run at defending their Eastern Conference championship. Yeah, I was just going to say like I I think the part about him helping them facilitate their offense and like having seen Vu be successful in a similar style in a similar role could be a good reason for them to try to go get him. The problem is they just don’t have a lot of good matching salary.
Uh as Fish pointed out, Pacers didn’t want to pay Turner. They’re not uh picking up Boug for 20 mil.
Well, they didn’t want to pay Turner more than 20 mil.
They didn’t want to pay Turner a whole bunch more than 20 mil. And also it’s one year. Like I think there’s there’s value in him being kind of like the stop cap. Dysfunctional. I can see Vu on the Pacers to the trade machine. I love that
to the Hidden PETA. Uh Eric Christian V for Benny Mathan, please. It’s a good young player.
Mathan’s nice, man.
Yeah. Don’t know why the Pacers would do that. I don’t know either. Like yes, they need a center, but also like they I think part of their decision making it easier to let Turner go instead of paying him.
They’re a small market team
with a lot of, you know, big money.
They got two stars that, you know, are collecting checks. Seakum, Tyresese Hallebertton.
Yeah. They got role players that are good and not cheap.
And next year you’re looking at a one-year pause with Hie being down. Mhm. as far as legit championship contention.
Yeah.
So,
do you go and make a bold move to bring in a veteran center if that’s the case? You would then have to resign if you want to keep him as part of your plan for longer than next season.
Exactly. Tony Bradley can only carry you so long, man.
Exactly. We got to pause the conversation there for now, but fear not, we will be back tomorrow to pick back up on anything else that happens in the NBA free agency with Giddy or otherwise. Uh, note early start time tomorrow, 1:30 p.m. Central time. Uh, and then we’ll head into the holiday weekend, but hit the like on your way out if you haven’t done it yet. Do it for Katie. Don’t make her chase you. Follow the goat. Read stuff. All cs.com. Become a diehard. Read it. Tease something cool dropping later this week. Will big day. Bw sports. I’m bull bulls. Shout out to the queen of the controls, Katy Duffy. Shout out to our guest, Bob Schmidt. Have a great night. See you very good.
Peace.

📬 Chicago sports in your inbox: https://allchgo.com/newsletter

The CHGO Bulls crew dive into the latest NBA Free Agency news, including updates on Chicago Bulls restricted free agent Josh Giddey and the Bulls’ continued connection to Jonathan Kuminga. Brian Windhorst stated that according to his sources, there won’t be a Giddey deal done “anytime soon.” What should Bulls fans make of this? And are the Bulls actually still in play for a Kuminga sign-and-trade with the Warriors? Peck, Big Dave and Will Gottlieb also talk to Bob Schmidt of the Fear the ‘Fro Podcast to get his take on trade acquisition Isaac Okoro. Plus, Bulls draft grades!

0:00 Welcome to the show
3:15 Bulls and Giddey are reportedly not coming to a deal “anytime soon”
17:20 Bulls are linked to Jonathan Kuminga AGAIN
31:20 Bob Schmidt from the Fear the Fro podcast joins the show!
31:45 Why to be enthused about Isaac Okoro
35:15 The drawbacks of Okoro’s defense
43:45 What is Isaac Okoro’s ceiling?
50:30 Deandre Ayton signs with Los Angeles Lakers

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