How the Bucks built around Giannis and where it went sideways | The Domonique Foxworth Show

How the Bucks built around Giannis and where it went sideways | The Domonique Foxworth Show

Off top. New Jersey is the only state where it’s illegal to pump your own gas. Play music.
This is the Dominique Foxworth Show. [Music] Welcome to the Dominique Foxwurf Show. I’m Dominique Foxwurf. I’m in my wonderful home in DC where I’m allowed to pump my own gas if I so choose and Charlie is not.
I’m in Stone Harbor, New Jersey. Um, next to sign. I mean, this is reason enough for you guys to switch over and watch on YouTube in a in a bedroom with a sign that says Jersey girls don’t pump gas. This is this is elite decor. I’m bringing it home. We’re bringing it home with me.
It’s beautiful. It’s It’s It feels very summery, but um I had it off top about Jupiter and on that. Nope. Shel it. We’re going with Jersey Girls Don’t Pump Gas. I mean,
yeah, even Jupiter will be there on Wednesday’s show.
I hope. I mean, Jupiter should be a little that uh I mean, not Jupiter. Pluto should be a little Jupiter’s a planet. That’s a another conversation for another time. You You still think Pluto’s a planet, right?
I mean, it is. I know that they said it’s not. It’s like a dwarf planet or something like a mini planet or something. But I mean, all the gas giants have no like no solid. Their core is liquid and then there’s no firm land to stand on should we ever land there. Like I feel like I respect the ice planets more than I respect the gas planets no matter how big they are. But I said it was a conversation the other day. You’re trying to make me have it now. No, I just like you can’t unplanet someone. I mean, it depends on how the how the planet’s career ends to be fair. Like I think I think the planet’s legacy could change if the planet doesn’t win any championship career.
This is ring’s culture. Pluto had a ring. It was one of the one of the nine planets.
You can’t take away that ring.
Funny.
Oh, good point. Good point. There you go. Good joke. All right. Should we This is a good segue. We’re going to talk about some rings culture. Not really, actually. We’re going to do have a nuance conversation um about NBA free agency. We’ve largely sat out NBA free agency since we talked about the second apron um about a week ago and LeBron’s potential landing spots off of that. And we’ve let the dust settle because this has been a a different look at the this first week of July than we’ve seen in years past. And the big domino that we thought might fall has not fallen yet. And that’s Giannis Adeta Kmpo where there was smoke that maybe he’d won out of Milwaukee because he was displeased with the decision. Um that has sort of been retracted although he was reportedly not pleased with the decision to wave and stretch Damen Lillard to bring in Miles Turner. Um and how that leaves Milwaukee paying $23 million on their cap for the next five years. Um, and so I I think we can have a pretty long discussion on on Giannis, but I want to start with a question for you, which is about the state of the Eastern Conference and free agency because the Bucks now have this team where,
right, they have Giannis, they have Miles Turner, they have Bobby Porter, that’s who they’ve paid. They don’t really have guards. They don’t have uh they have Kevin Porter starting as one of their guards, but they’re in a conference where Giannis is the best player by far. It’s an incredibly depleted East like with the bigger gap than anyone to the second best player since peak LeBron and I’d argue maybe even bigger because after that second best player in the conference I guess is Donovan Mitchell maybe Pow Blanchero and those are guys who we don’t really know where they fall in the league landscape compared to the elite elite guys. Um and so I want to start here before we get into potential transactions before we get into the Giannis uh future conversation. When you look at this team and this conference, what’s the ceiling of the Bucks, even if they keep Giannis, even if Giannis is on this team for all of 2025, 2026?
I mean, the way you lay it out makes it feel like the ceiling is a championship just because he is by far like that gap is real. And of course, you’re talking about healthy players because we’re not including uh the late season um Achilles tears that they um that Jason Ta and Hallebertton got. Um, but the problem is, or not the problem, the reason why the ceiling is not a championship is because the names that you mentioned, what they have around them, and they aren’t like a team that has a bunch of room and flexibility and options. Like, they’ve at every turn they’ve kind of pulled every lever and pull and done every move that they could and sent away all the assets that they have in order to maximize their chance at a title um for Giannis in his prime. and Giannis is still in his damn prime and there’s really not moves left to make. So, while a superstar in the NBA is the most important thing, it’ll probably get you in the playoffs. And even in this depleted East, we’re reminded every year that it’s how many of those wing players and perimeter defenders you have and guys that can consistently hit threes and can you keep your team afloat without your superstar on the floor? Like, all that stuff matters. And I mean the answer to all those questions on that team right now is is no. You got Giannis and then you don’t have anything else after that. So like I I I mean the first round they get out of the first round. Nothing nothing that I think matters to the way that we will remember Giannis. Like they can’t make a run that’s deep enough that would make us think like this was worth it for Giannis from a winning and legacy standpoint. So, I guess from both sides, it feels like I mean, we’re not breaking new ground here, but it feels like both sides have kind of met the end of the road, right?
Yeah, it’s really interesting. Like, I look at the roster and like I I love Giannis. He’s awesome. Like, the way he how hard he plays, um how unique he’s been, like all the stuff. He’s he seems like cool as um but he does like that’s a huge part of it. I think um
I think this this is this is us just because I agree with you, but this is also just us being old because he’s like he’s like um walking culture and that you know the best player kind of determines some of those things on your team. Like Giannis shows up and he does what all the old guys want to do. Like I don’t think I don’t think the people who decide what is actually cool or not are like hey yis he’s so cool. All right. No, but he I mean he’s cool us which is fine. That’s all right. We it’s our show. We can define what’s cool. I am fine being on the right side of history that I think Giannis is cool and Jason Tatum and Low Ball are not cool.
Well, I mean, I feel like you should think Jason Tatum is cool based on your Giannis is cool.
Um,
like Jason Tatum like he plays within the system. He plays good defense. Like we don’t get reports of Jason Tatum doing anything that’s problematic. You just don’t.
No, no, no. Again, you can’t describe cool. There’s not one way to to cool. We We can’t get sidetracked. We can’t get sided. We can get sidetracked. I mean, if you’re if you’re trying to do I feel like we’ve had the coolest conversation before, though. Like,
oh, this drives you nuts that I think that I could be an arbiter of what’s cool.
It drives it drives me nuts.
I’m a middle-aged white guy being like, look at look at that guy being cool.
I mean, I think it’s authenticity. That’s what makes you cool. There we go. Now, we can move on. Chapter close.
So, back to Giannis and the Bucks ceiling. When I look at it, the weird thing is is I think they are probably a five seed, maybe four or five seed in the East. Probably five, six in that range. Like I don’t think that they’re on paper as good as Atlanta, New York, Orlando. Um and we’ll see what happens. Cleveland, obviously Cleveland’s the top of the conference. They went 64 games. And
do you think can I cut you off for a second? Do you think that that they are good enough to and this is a probably a more football way of of approaching it. I think the answer to this question is probably no, but good enough to try to add around it and given what’s happened in the NBA playoffs in recent years is like do the like the wild card football team model is like hey anything can happen at a tournament like they’ll be good enough to get in if Giannis stays healthy. um in what happened last year and what happened the year before that where there just are a rash of injuries that they could be the team like would it be worth it I guess is the is the question I’m asking
that that’s you read my mind
because as a five or six seed team it’s like okay everything breaks right they’re completely healthy they totally gel they figure out a way to add a buyout guard or someone’s willing to take take something there it’s like could they make the NBA finals in the Eastern Conference I would not write that off.
Yeah.
Just to get spanked by the West. I I can’t. It would need something historic of people getting injured in late rounds all throughout the Western Conference. And now I’m writing off the bucks of of making moves, but the reason you’re saying could they add around the fringes. That’s a really interesting question because in this whole Bucks thing, like, okay, we’re going to get into all the fact that Giannis didn’t want to be the bad guy and ask out. The Bucks haven’t wanted to break up this relationship. It’s this weird thing where it’s like, you love the person, should you let him go? where are we in this? Like we’re we’re trying we’re going to couples therapy but nothing’s working type of thing. But the ad around the fringes, you actually just tapped into what the Bucks have made mistakes on since 2017. And I I’m going all the way back to 2017 because I think this is really illustrative of the fact that like they have been run in a large way similar to the first um the first run of LeBron with the Cavaliers. not to that extreme, but in a way like that because
they have tried to make swings assuming that Giannis could leave and wouldn’t be loyal, but he hasn’t indicated any of that. And so they’ve been they’ve managed the team that way despite the fact that Giannis in many ways has acted like a Steph or a Duncan. He hasn’t held the metaphorical gun of loyalty to their head. And like I have I can we can run through some of the big moves that have happened. I want you to run through the big moves, but I guess and maybe this is because I remember those trades and decisions through the prism of but Giannis might leave, but I don’t ever remember any of those decisions even up until the most recent risky decision with Dame. Like, I don’t ever remember any of those decisions being like, damn, this is stupid. This is risky. Like, and so maybe go back through it and and maybe it’ll jog my memory.
So, the first one was in 2017. I go back to that year because that was the year that they got Malcolm Brogden who won rookie of the year. And within a couple within a couple years they had to make the decision because he was not a first round pick between Eric Bledo and Malcolm Brogden. And they chose Bledsoe over Brogden. Brogden went to Indiana. And obviously the foot injuries ended his career after an awesome final year in in Boston. He’s he’s been on Washington. He’s still in the league, but he hasn’t been as effective of a player. They chose Bledo over Brogton at the time. Everyone’s like, whoa. Like I get the upside with Bledso’s athleticism. Brogton his last year in um his last year in Milwaukee shot 50 50 40 90 from the field and was like a perfect person because of his shooting to put around Giannis.
They let him walk.
That is the catalyst that leads to the Drew Holiday trade where they trade four first round picks for Drew Holiday in a move that like yes they won they won the title after that in 2021. Um, and I was looking back at old articles about it and you’re never going to have me crushing a Drew Holiday move because he was so good for that team in in moments that mattered and they won a title. But also there were people that were like, “Whoa, the Bucks just gave up all of their assets. They aren’t going to have picks for seven years to trade for Drew Holiday.” Um,
but I mean I I’m with you. I understand that and this is a process versus results conversation which I find very interesting and important. However, it’s kind of Because like process over results is something you say to sound smart when things go wrong but you had the right process.
Mhm.
Results over results. They got a they got a belt.
They got
they got uh not an intercontinental belt. They got the world championship belt as a result of that trade. So I I know you don’t disagree, but it’s hard to be critical of a move. I don’t give a damn how many picks I got to send. If the result of it is the player I receive is going to obviously be one of the deciding factors in us winning a championship, then thank you to
100%. But I’m just saying they were pinned into making a move where they gave up every single asset they had because of an early decision that was that was rash. And that’s the like the the LeBron style Cavs decision being like, “Holy, we knocked out in the first round. We have a generational player. We need to make this. We need to make a big move.” It worked. The next move after that was I don’t know if you remember this one. They were again on the quest to get shooting. They tried to execute a signing trade for Bogdan Bogdanovich from the Kings who would have been an excellent perfect fit for Giannis. Giannis wanted that. The league rescended it because of tampering which is how Bogey ended up on the on the on the Hawks.
I forgotten about that.
Yeah. And that’s just like another guard in the Brogton mold who can handle, who can pass, who’s like incredibly unselfish. He had defensive issues that we thought would get covered up by Giannis, but it’s like all right, we’re going to build a four out system around Giannis and this is a move that was on top of that.
So, the only I mean, I guess the ripple effects matter, but it seems like the the only misstep obvious misstep is the in your view is the Brogdy decision. And also, I’m going to need you to stop compar comparing them to to the LeBron Cavs like that.
No, no, it’s I’m just saying it’s like the model of the way that the front office has behaved. like people I think are congratulating the front office being like they’re willing to go in. They’re trying to compete no matter what. They’re they’re really pushing the limits for Giannis and we usually la that. Um but the interesting thing is in this situation they could have built something with more patience. Like I’m not I’m not saying everyone can be can be um you know Jerry West or Brad Stevens in the fact that they can like build this with future in mind and all this stuff. That’s really hard. I’m just saying like when you look at it, they were operating under like the gun that didn’t exist.
And Jerry West and Brad Stevens are were leading uh coastal big city big organizations.
Yeah. That have resources and it’s different in Milwaukee. It feels like um an undercurrent in this conversation that I didn’t anticipate it being was
nobody kind of wants to be a bad guy. And I know it’s about the Giannis not wanting to be the bad guy and leave. And maybe it’s also just genuine loyalty and love for the place, but the front office not wanting to be the bad guy to move on from Giannis. But also, I think that goes back to some of the rash decisions is you never want to be the team that’s not making the move. Even if it’s wiser to not make the move now, you want to you don’t want to be seen as like h especially when it’s like Giannis could leave. I I get the fear around it. Not that it it excuses it. Like that’s the point of leadership. You got to make some hard decisions and you got to sometimes be uh the villain. It just sucks.
Yeah. And that’s I mean that was you know Giannis hadn’t signed the super max yet when they traded Drew traded for Drew Holiday and that was there was clearly that was the one time where it felt like there was pressure on that. Um and then since then they fired Benhoer when it wasn’t clear that Giannis wanted. They brought in Adrian Griffin who Giannis didn’t want as the coach and he was fired in the first half of the season and replaced him with Doc Rivers and they traded Chris Middleton who was obviously the end of the rope for uh sorry skipped the game trade entirely. They traded for for Damen Lillard in that off seasonason, which is one that that was a trade that like I’m like, hand up. I didn’t I just thought they’d be great on offense. And I know that there were there were smarter NBA people than me that were like, hold on for a second. Like they will be great on offense, but they might have some defensive issues, but I don’t think any of us foresaw obviously the injury happening or Dame’s sort of uh imperfect fit with Giannis before then. Um,
yeah. And so,
yeah,
I mean that’s that’s a move that has to be I mean that’s a move that
if Damian Lillard is available like it’s hard to to argue against that, but I think one of the communication, man. It’s just like
if the idea that they were making moves because they weren’t sure what Giannis was going to do
is wild to me because it seems and this is retrospect obviously but it seems pretty clear that if you could have a conversation with him he and and like a have some trust with him like he’s a a smart guy who wants to be there like yeah
selling
I don’t know it it feels to me like You’re making the argument that some of these decisions they felt forced and they wouldn’t have made them otherwise. I think that they thought these were smart decisions. Well, so here’s the thing. Here’s here’s where I I I fall on this. And the the final move is obviously Chris Middleton for Kyle Koosma. It’s a Hail Mary Middleton at the end. Koozma’s was subtraction by addition on this team and was was really was really rough. I think they made these moves because unlike the LeBron Cavs or unlike some of these teams that are close and feel like we can tinker around the edges and get over the get over the hump, we can like we’re you know we’re five years after we said that they’re going to have no picks for seven years and they have no picks for seven years again where so like that’s where I fall on it is actually like we remember Giannis for the championship run and some of the heroics like even the following year when they lost to Boston at seven when the team was depleted and Middleton was But if you actually look at the the the deep dive of of his playoff career, they’ve made one other conference finals where they’re up 20 in Toronto and they got washed out of the series 4-2 in 2019 and other than that they’ve been a first or second round team. And I think that these decisions in actuality are not about like tinkering around the edges. It’s they’ve looked at this team being like, “Holy, we have this generational player. we have a first ballot hall of famer, someone who’s top 25 player of all time, and we’re a first and second round exit in a we in a in a weaker Eastern Conference. We need to make major changes. And that’s been the to me that’s actually been the biggest pressure point of being like this doesn’t actually add up. And you can go through those years and like they were one seed, Giannis fell on a basketball against the Miami Heat and hurt his back. They were in the bubble there were a million social things. They walked out of of of the game and things were delayed because it was coming off of of Jacob Blake stuff. like there there are there are excuses there things that have changed in each of these seasons, but they’ve also had some weird playoff flame outs early. And I think that thing not actually like appearing close because you win so many regular season games because you have this guy averaging 30 12 and six who’s winning multiple MVPs has actually pushed them to take the bigger swings than anything because it’s a sort of a unique paradox that we don’t usually see in the NBA. It doesn’t feel like I mean when we’re preparing for this like it does us having a conversation about like how his tenure and he’s still there so it’s going to continue and
he could play the rest of his career there.
Yeah. But having a conversation about how his tenure has been has required some investigation that
makes it feel like this was more disappointing uh uh a stent than it should have been. But because I I remember the it’s so interesting because the the path is about where you start kind of. So like I I compare Jokic to him in ways because they’re both guys who were late round picks who were not or later picks who are not perceived to be superstars and then like gradually like oh yeah he’s good then next thing you know he’s like an MVP level greatest of all time type of player but because Giannis came from that and then he went through that period of can you win a championship with a player like this because you remember that was a thing was like
build a wall build a bleeping wall with Stan. It’s like it’s so easy. Like he can’t hit free throws and he’s not like a game closing type of wing type of guy. He can’t win a championship with a guy like this. They made the adjustments. Eventually he won the championship and that felt like it was um I think Durk is a good comparison of like but it’s different. But Durk’s a good comparison for like all right he got the championship now we all have to shut the hell up. But I guess I I don’t know how good we should think about or how what class of player we should put Giannis in and how much the context around it should should weigh our judgment because there’s so many great players from obviously Jordan has to come up. There’s so many great players from the Jordan era that we are like, “No, he was great. It just so happened Jordan was around.” Do we do that for Giannis in this stretch?
I honestly like it’s so funny. Like we were talking about this before the show and I was like I think he ended up with the perfect amount of championships like where I was like and like I I I don’t know what like the ranks of like there are parts of it that remind me of Durk. Although Durk should have two rings. Anyone who needs to go back on YouTube and look at the 2006 finals. It should be like there should be a 30 for30 on this. Now I’m just doing free production. Um
we can do it. You want to do it.
Oh, hold on. Pablo Tori finds out. You want to break something? Find out that was rigged. Oh, you didn’t have to add the insult.
I know, but it just felt good.
You said something before you called Pablo to try to Google and then you called him a I forgot
the 2006 finals and all the free throws that Dwayne Wade hit and that kept Dirk from having his first ring. Um, in so far as a Peabody’s concerned, that would get you one. Mr. Muro in so far. Oh gosh. Uh,
do you forget did you forget what you were what you were working towards? You were working towards a point and then you got sidetracked by
I have no idea where I was. Oh, sorry. Dirk is the perfect amount of rings and the reason the reason is I was looking back at the stuff and like or Giannis is the perfect amount of rings. And I was looking back at the stuff and I really,
you know, he was really good ahead of time, but I don’t really think windows opened until um 2019, but really 2020. Even in 2019, we we assumed the Warriors were going to win before the Clay and Durant injuries. and it felt like the the league knew that as well. Um, and you had Heat Cavs Warriors as this insurmountable thing that was unique to the 2010s. Uh, 2020 happens, the bubble season’s really weird. I think they likely would have made the finals over the Heat there. They win in 21. Uh, 22, Giannis gets hurt and and Steph wins the title. By 23, I really felt like Joic was the best player in the league and I thought the Nuggets were in a different spot. And that’s where we ended up at today with the Celtics and the and the Thunder having a completely different build. So when I look back on it, like I don’t feel like he was robbed of championships or should have won more or should have won less. Um I think it’s about right. Like could he have won another year? Yes. But also the year he won, he had a million things break correctly for him. Durant’s toe was on the line. He got to play the Hawks in the conference finals because uh because Ben Simmons brain broke in the finals. like the Suns were sure they were a fine team, but they were there largely because Anthony Davis tore his groin in the first round of the playoffs when it was a 1-1 series and the Lakers were up in that game. Um, so like to me it’s like it it’s almost how he got there. Also, he was heroic. His his leg went the wrong way. He scored 50 in a closeout game. Like I take nothing away, but like it’s to me there’s no asterisk on it. Like he won one title the way that Durk did, the way that Kevin Garnett did. And he’s just like an amazing player who’s in that in that tier of guys. um and maybe more accomplished because of the stats and the MVPs even.
Yeah. I mean, and Kevin Garnett was a different situation, I think. Like I I know Kevin Garnett was like the defensive anchor and obvious obviously a great offensive weapon on that team, but um that’s not the same, right? Like this gets to the Charles Barkley.
I mean, Garnett won an MVP and had a historically great year the one the year he won it
the Oh, I miss I’m misremembering Garnett’s um Boston time, I guess. Like I know he was great, but I’m saying that it’s very different from what Giannis was to his team. Like Kevin Garnett, they won it when they put together the first like it was the the beginning.
Oh, you said with the actual title. I thought you meant his peak as a as a player.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m not saying that Kevin Garnett Yeah. So, I’m not mis misremembering. He was not an MVP in Boston. Yeah. My my only point was the Giannis title feels like
it feels different, I guess, than it does to the KG title. like Giannis if he goes somewhere else and gets a title as like a part of a group that’s a different story. But um what you said that sent me to look is like I I think I blew up Giannis in my mind. So I went to the top 75 NBA players list I think and Giannis they have between Dirk and Jerry West. So exactly where you would have said like as far as titles I think I imagine that the history of basketball when we talk about the players that are at the top like nobody gets one you know like those guys don’t get one they get they get a couple which I guess is changing going forward because Joic well he might get some more but as of now just one. Yeah. I mean they had a great offseason. We can get to that. I mean it’s it’s I hope I hope Joic and Giannis get more like I feel like they could. Um, but okay, let’s keep this on track. Okay,
so going forward, we’re now in this toxic relationship with Milwaukee and we’ve broken down the history of it where and I shouldn’t say it’s toxic because seems somewhat pleasant, but it’s toxic for us on the outside of the way we view it as as like, guys, for the love of God, please end this thing. Um, and you know, Giannis is really connected to that community. The team is connected to Giannis and I doubt I don’t think they’ll trade him unless he asks out because you know, you don’t do that to your superstars. You don’t. And it’s maybe that’s silly because it’s like it’s not like Milwaukee is gonna lose free agents because they traded Giannis. Like it’s not like it disrespected them. But should Milwaukee and I’m asking you this and seriously like you’ve you’ve been on both sides of this in these things. Should Milwaukee be willing to trade to be the bad guy and trade Giannis even if he doesn’t ask out just for the health of the organization for where what we just talked about of where you’re at with this stuff. Um is that something? Do you have a meeting about that? What’s what’s the meeting like if you’re in that room with with the Bucks front office?
You absolutely have multiple meetings, but this is one of those times when I think it’s important to remember that there are actual people and not like some big faceless um company. I don’t want to be the one. I don’t want to be the owner. I don’t want to be the general manager. I don’t want to be the head coach or anyone who had anything to do with sending our greatest player ever who does not want to leave away. Like I would badly want him to demand a trade but also say that you can send me anywhere. Like that’s that’s a perfect world uh to demand a trade but not um narrow the destination so we can get the most leverage. But that’s a hard decision to make. I think honestly because the fan the sports watching public is a little smarter than they were in the past. I actually don’t think the backlash would be as bad as it’s as it could be and it would depend a lot on how Giannis handled it cuz if Giannis comes out like I’m heartbroken. I thought they would never do this. Why did they do this to me? Then you got the rest of that season and and you’re gone and you’re going to be remembered for running Giannis out of town. if he’s like, “Well, this is what’s best.” Unless they unless they give you AJ Deansa in the draft next year.
Yeah. Oh, old Nico. The old Nico soothsayer technique.
Genius Nico.
Yeah. Genius.
I don’t know if you saw that. He said this was all He said that the plan is all starting to come together. That’s an actual press conference. He said that.
I love that, man.
I love him. I love him.
Lean in. Lean in. I think when you should just not talk and just whenever things work out just just tap the temple. Just look at tap the temple. It was in that moment I realized that me and Nico Harris are a lot more alike than I than I had previously realized. Cuz that’s something I would say to you as a complete joke after messing something up.
Did he laugh afterwards? No. No, he was dead serious. The press room laughed. The press room. Good. Yes. I mean I I guess that does matter. I don’t know. This is the what is I would wonder about the value of keeping him there and then this gets a little sports businessy more about the money than about the championship is there is a value to not having your player go play in somebody else’s uniform. Not only not I mean there’s Dwayne Wade when his knees are dust and he pops on to the Cavs and the Bulls and does some other things like I don’t think that’s the same. done.
Giannis is still in his prime. Him going to have because Dwayne Wade is a good example um because he didn’t have meaningful moments with those teams. Giannis wherever he goes most likely is a team that’s feels like they’re close. He’s going to have meaningful playoff moments and it’s almost worth it just to not let him do that elsewhere. Like it feels like you’re losing something.
Yeah. No, no. I mean, there’s a there’s a legitimate like look, we just talked and I’m not going to circle back to the Navas on everything.
There was legitimate like hollow and scuttlebutt amongst amongst fans being like, “Oh my god, is Dallas ever going to be able to reg regain the trust of your fan base?” Like, is this team is this team going to have to move to Vegas? Is this what the Adults had wanted all along? Um, so like no, I don’t think that’s crazy at all to be like the the value of of of to to your fan base and and for being a serious outfit being able to keep Giannis is that and that’s where your point of how Giannis comes out if you if you were to get traded at some point. how he interacts with the front office, if it’s something that’s more mutual, um,
and it’s something that he’s okay with, that’s everything in this. Um, because I I I do think there’s a real flag really save from a trade, Giannis or the Bucks because of that because like you could sell me on either side. I have an answer, but I want I want to hear yours yours first.
The question is who would benefit more?
Yeah.
Yeah. I I think it’s Giannis. I don’t think it’s it’s hard, too. I think it’s hard to argue like the Bucks could benefit more but it’s a long term and it’s a long shot. Like you would have to be able to the the the cost and this is the thing that I think you were talking about the fans. I’m not talking about the fans necessarily. That’s a different conversation. I’m going to assume that Giannis is going to do you a solid and say nice things on the way out the door and the fans don’t turn on you. The fans like, “All right, I understand that’s what happens.” Blah blah blah. I’m saying that currently you have and I guess Milwaukee is a good example of this because of um luau sender Kareem Abdul Jabbar is like you got a chance of him going somewhere else and then some of his career being defined by that. That’s the point I was trying to make is not that the fans immediately will be is that you have a piece of NBA history right now
and you are and you can hearken back to it every 10 years every 20 years he is a part of it when he comes back when we show highlights when he goes to the Hall of Fame every time anything happens in relation to Giannis or Milwaukee you can talk about this player he goes somewhere else and while still in his prime. It’s like in KG’s another good example to go to. It’s like yeah KG’s a Celtic guys. Sorry Minnesota. He had his best years in Minnesota but he won one title in Boston and that man always got on green and hanging out with Paul Pierce all the time is it’s and that’s the thing that I it’s
he’s Paul Pierce’s handler. It’s amazing. He does an incredible service. He’s KG is hilarious, man. Did you see that video of Paul Pierce, by the way, where he was asking about who he was better better scorer than?
I saw it. Yeah. And
I can’t help but love Paul. He was everyone KD better.
I mean, how is that any different than than Nico? No, he KD was the only one that he was like hesitant is because then he said, but then he had a better post game, so he had to like Yeah, it started with Jordan. We just kicked it off.
I forgot he said he was
You better score. How do you forget it? It was the first one that I saw. It was like, you better score than Jordan. I was like, he said, “Yep.” I was like, “All right, I’m in for the rest of this video.” If it starts with, “I’m better than Michael Jordan.”
Can we get Paul on the show?
Ah, probably not. Paul, if you’re listening to this, I’ve I I know you’re a dedicated listener. He’s definitely not busy for the record. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. The man is doing long walks. He also I mean, he’s very recreational person, as you should be during retirement. Man’s got a lot of wreck time. He spent a lot of time at the wreck. Um, by the way, all right, we can circle back from Paul Pierce. I don’t think that So, you brought up something interesting about people being remembered in other uniforms and Kevin Garnett because like that’s I was looking through NBA history of guys who got traded without trade demands and it’s like Kevin Garnett’s I know he eventually had his walk on the beach in Malibu with Pat Riley who was like it’s okay to leave and then he got he ended up being out but he really demanded trade is incredibly loyal to Minnesota. Um, and then I thought about Ray Allen in the in Seattle, Dominique Wilkins when he got traded from Atlanta and how upset people were by that. Clyde Drexler who got traded for the Blazers to the Rockets. Um, no one really on Giannis’s level. But the biggest difference I think about this too is I’m actually not sure we’ll remember like even if Giannis wins another title somewhere else. I’m not sure it’ll be as clear of where he belongs in our collective memory after that stuff just because those guys didn’t have a great playoff moment that’s like indelible and like Giannis scored 50 points in a closeout game after his leg went backwards.
Um
and like to me that’s like like even if he’s traded like that stuff is really hard to overcome. Like that’s always going to be part of the NBA like agreed
thought thought process of where Giannis was and and who he belongs to. And then he went and got a 50 piece nuggets which I don’t know why I can’t forget that random thing
and rang the sex bell a bunch of times.
I was going to point that out. I feel like that requires context. But like or we could just leave it hanging there and people can uh defile their work computers trying to figure out what you were talking about. I don’t think everyone remembers that the way that you and I do for whatever reason. But I think my point is not is my point is it won’t go up and maybe it won’t be like Kareem Abdul Jabar who everyone just only thinks of as a Laker. Maybe it won’t be like
changed his name. That was a part of it too.
That was part of it. But either way, it won’t be like Maybe it won’t be like that at all. But it most definitely won’t go up. Like the affiliation with your organization won’t go up. There will be some it’s it’s the point that I was making. It’s like when we put them in the Hall of Fame.
Yeah. And when we whether it completely becomes a part of a new organization and maybe not because of what you were saying, those big moments that we remember, but
there going to be some footnotes. You can you can buy those footnotes away right now. Otherwise, it’s going to be like, “Yeah, then he went to, I don’t know, Houston and teamed up with KD and it was balling or whatever. Then he went to I I keep thinking of Western teams, which is not useful because it’s competitive over there.”
Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, like the Garnett thing I keep coming back to like a part of me wants him to get traded and like, okay, the reason I asked who would benefit more is like if we really think that Milwaukee can go nowhere with this and it’s not salvageable like that. I brought that up because it’s like okay at that point like maybe be that guy get like a ton of picks even if he’s 30 gets try try and reset the deck but the part of the reason I want him to get traded and the reason I keep like dancing around it is like I want the KG run I want like he’s a hyper competitor like and not fake like genuine competitor and I want to see him on that stage again. I want to see him fighting for a title. What part of you like you said part of you wants that I don’t know what part of you you’re not a Bucks fan. What part of you wants him to stay in Milwaukee? Part of you wants him to stay there and
and just just because like the loyalty stuff and not go to any meaningful playoff games.
Well, I also feel like it’s like an NBA sickness for me to be like, “This guy’s saying he doesn’t want to demand a trade. I really want him to demand a trade.” like that’s like that’s leaning into the like the the the the worst impulses of an NBA fan who’s like it’s like ignoring the fact that it’s cool to see someone play in one jersey his whole career and like if he’s if he wants to play there
and have like a a if I mean I think in his mind he wanted to have a Duncan or Curry type legacy there. hasn’t totally worked out with the championships um because of certain, you know,
but he he is that to them. Like he is that to them.
And that’s that’s when I like I take a pause. I’m like, should I really be rooting for this guy to demand a trade? Like like what? That’s silly. Like that’s that’s me getting to NBA Twitter.
Yeah. I mean, I guess you’re right. He’s so good, man.
Yeah. Like the
And they’re so screwed. the $23 million a year to Dame and like no assets and no picks going forward.
The idea that I don’t know what um if he stays there, you know, I like to put random probabilities on things that are just pulled directly out of my but like if he stays there for the rest of his career, what are the chances that he makes it back to a conference final? Like percentage wise?
I mean 63%. And so you’re saying like even after he’s no longer impactful, they put something together.
Oh, I mean it could happen this year with the East.
Well, but like win the title.
Well, I I just I mean I think I think conference competitive in a conference championship is enough for me. Like I would like if I think that if you told the Bucks that I think they could sign him that that every year or I mean I guess it’s not every year but over the course of the next four years we got a 60% chance to get to at least the conference finals.
No chance to make it to one conference finals,
right? I know that’s what I’m saying. Over the next four years we got a not 63% chance every year. That’s that’s tough. But I I if that’s the case, I would have said it’s much lower than that, which is what would push me to say because if we’re saying his prime, he’s got three or four more years left in his prime. I if you give me that percentage, like I I’m fine with him staying there. I would have thought he’s closer to 15
to 20.
Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s interesting because like they can’t improve the I don’t I I genuinely don’t know how they can improve the roster because of what’s happened with the the Turner deal and the stuff like they have no picks to sweeten deals. They have no money. Um, and like I think Turner will be good with them. Portoris is a fine player. They’re, but like it’s just they they are what they are. And we’ve seen him with a perfect cast. In 2019, they were number one in net rating.
Giannis struggled against the Toronto wall. They lost in the conference finals. 2020 they’re number one in the net rating and they he gets locked up by Bam. And I’m not saying this is like he averaged 22 points a game and Milwaukee lost 4-1 in that bubble series. 2023 they were the number one seed again. They lost 4-1 to Miami. That was the back series. We’ve seen these erratic up and downs of injuries and other things going on, but like the the the range of outcomes is really wide with this and they can’t even play their three best players together moving forward. This is a very different roster than when they had a closer to Peak Middleton um and Holiday on this team. Uh so like I don’t know. I don’t know. I uh is there a team that you’d want to see him get traded for? I mean like they’re ones that have been bantered about like Atlanta has been expertly run and could trade a bunch of picks including Milwaukeee’s picks back to them and Jaylen Johnson is an excellent player or maybe build a deal even without him. Houston has loaded up and has like 10 good players and could pair him with KD and Amen Thompson. I we’ve long heard like why not the Knicks or the Nets type of thing. I mean the Nets have I mean they probably that one up when they drafted four guards and and used their their cap space the way they did but like is there one of those that stands out to you as something you’d want to see? I mean, if we’re staying on the East, I know you brought up Houston. I would love Houston, but I mean, we don’t need any more power in the West. Like, I I would love to see somebody on the East turn into more of a realistic competitor, which means not the Knicks. Like, I’d love to see more on the Knicks, but the Knicks, I feel like, are the only team left that in the East that were like, “All right, we know for sure that this team is is uh at least pretty good.” Like, I’m looking. like the Raptors, no, the Nets, the no 76ers, no.
Um I guess the Pistons, Pistons would be adding him to the Pistons would be fun. The Cavs, I don’t think it works. Uh obviously, they would make it work if it became available, but
um the Cavs are a real contender. I don’t want to I don’t want to send him to another real contender. So, I feel like maybe it’s the Pistons. It could make the Pistons a real contender. There’s nobody else that I think
Orlando’s made their moves. Atlanta Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but then your man’s he’d be good with Trey Young. Trey Young’s
I mean, Trey Young’s
incredible passer. I know. Yeah.
However, uh I I know how you feel about Trey Young as a defender and generally as a winning basketball player. So, I just
Yeah. But he als Trey Young’s another paradox because he’s also like randomly like a playoff killer at times.
That’s fair.
He does he does turn into Dame Lillard. Oh man, Trey Young. One of the best celebrations uh in modern sports. Uh if you hit a shot in the garden and go ice tray on them. I don’t know who beats that.
Okay, so we’ve we’ve had all these talks about super teams being gone and we’ve seen Houston position
better than Night. By the way, we can keep it moving, but I just want you to know Ice is better than Night.
Night night’s really overrated. Yeah.
I don’t know. And in the Olympic Olympic Olympic Olympics, that’s exactly way to go. Way to um cut it off before you got embarrassed because Olympic night was great. Rest of the night nights.
You had all these people putting down their espresso and quas being like sacra blue Steph night night at us. It was the best.
It’s exactly what Carmelo was saying when he him and his son were jumping on the floor. Sakre blue. What does that even mean? I’ve heard it as like French throwaway words, but I don’t actually know what it means.
I don’t know. It means holy.
Oh, really?
I assume it’s something similar to that. Same same intonation. Um,
but no, I mean like on on I got to ask one other thing. So, like we’ve talked about the death of the super team era with the apron
and we are entering the quickie era. We got to make that catch up.
Yeah, the quickie era. Um, but like let’s just Houston, if they traded for him, they’re going the super team route in a lot of ways. Like they’d have a lot of incredible pieces. Oklahoma City could just trade for him. They could put together an overwhelming ro overwhelming offer and then it’s like that’s we’re back.
Ah, then you
for a couple years,
your man Adam Silver, you’re going to be calling on Adam Silver to veto it. I know you. I know you. And you’re going to you’re going to you’re going to say your friend Adam and you’re going to call him scared or something or or then you’re going to hype up David Cern David Stern rest in peace and say David Stern would have never let the league get this lopsided or something like that. I mean, the thing about that though is like, yes, I would do that just to troll you and your your good friend Adam, but also like Oklahoma City could make the best offer if they wanted to at any point. Like, they like an offer that would be largely fail fair for a 30-year-old player who can’t shoot.
That um that trade would make me so happy the day it happened. And I know exactly what happened is I would think it was so cool and be so fun and then I would have to paint myself into the corner where I have to defend that trade as they rip through the entire league for the whole
trade, not a signing. It’s a trade, not a signing. It’s a trade, not a signing.
No, I mean I just mean that I would just have to pretend like I liked it as they ripped through the whole league and uh and won the title without any defense.
Yeah.
Not any defense. obviously they can defend without any um friction. Well, I part of me wants to see it happen. I have a morbid curiosity to see how if you added maybe one of the three best defensive players in the league to a team that was already a stifling all-time defense and someone who in any isolated matchup can score at will. Like what that does to a team that great with great coaches, great players, and guys who were merging. It’s really I mean
I know what it would do. It would work
or get How about get him with Wendy? Yeah, that was the one that was in the back of my mind the whole I mean there people talked about that in the past. It hasn’t seemed to come up much um now, but talked about making that happen in the past. It’s just uh it’s defense for days. That’d be so fun
and it’d be so long and unique. Like you think about like the weirdest teams in NBA history like how about like the fact that we had the most athletic seven foot person we’ve ever seen in our life and we put him next to the most athletic 7 foot five person we’ve ever seen in our life. Oh my gosh. Wim, you see Wimby playing soccer and doing all this stuff and
and uh you see him do the bicycle kick. Yeah, you got to beef the bicycle kick, but it’s still amazing that he was coordinated enough to try it.
That’s that’s my point. Like
think think of remember George Miran like this is even even Yao was a ridiculously athletic
dextrous. Yeah, but it ain’t like this.
No.
No. Nobody’s ever moved like him at that size.
I mean, he really moves like young Durant in a lot of ways, but he’s six inches taller or five inches taller.
Um, so it’s really interesting.
Oh, well,
what a great what a great discussion. What a great show.
That’s fun. Yeah.
Hey, we’re we’re good at this.
Um,
shout out to us and thanks to
As I close the show, producers,
I have to close with one more thing. Most most free throws in an NBA final series ever. Shaq in 01027. There’s hacker shack as part of it. Second Dwayne Wade 16.2 free throws a game in 0506.
Get out of here. Who was who was third?
Shaq in 99 2000 15.5 followed by Shaq in 0 in 01 in 2001.
The more the more context or the more names you add or not more names, the more numbers you add, the worse he gets. Keep going until you get to a two guard for me.
And oh, I only have five. And then it goes to George M. It’s 14.3 in in 1949 1950.
All right, I’m going to text Dan Levitar right after the show and say, “Give us one of them championships back. You can pick which one, but we need one back from the Heat.” Call Pat Riley and say,
“Send it to Dirk.” Send it back to Dirk. Durk took it anyway. All right, I can end it now. Thanks to all the great producers. Thank you, Charlie. Um, and also we’re really good at this. We’re out.
This is the Dominique Foxworth Show. [Music]

Today on The Domonique Foxworth Show…

0:00 Welcome back to The Domonique Foxworth Show
1:50 What is the ceiling for the Bucks if Giannis stays?
18:27 Where does Giannis stand amongst the greats?
24:50 Should Milwaukee be the bad guy and trade Giannis?
29:14 Who would benefit more from a trade: Giannis or the Bucks?
32:40 How would you remember Giannis in Milwaukee if he got traded?
36:54 Can Giannis and the Bucks make it back to a Conference Finals?
39:17 Where would you want to see Giannis traded?

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