Pistons Free Agency Recap, THIS OR THAT?! – 313 Connect

Pistons Free Agency Recap, THIS OR THAT?! – 313 Connect

Hello and welcome to the 313 Connect podcast. I’m your guy Legie. We have Shawn here from Half Court. What’s going on Sean? Legie, what’s going on, man? Happy 4th of July to everyone out there celebrating and has a lot of cool stuff cuz we clearly don’t because we’re here talking basketball. No, but in all seriousness, it’s uh it’s it’s it’s a really exciting time of year. you know, obviously a lot of player movement, a lot of a lot of stuff has gone down since the last time we’ve we’ve hopped on the live. So excited to get into it, man. Yeah, this is a crazy time of year because anything can still happen. We’re only in what is this? Day four of free agency. There’s still a lot of names on the board. If you’re looking at we’re going to talk about the power forwards later, but I pulled this up right before we started streaming of the available power forwards. There’s still Marvin Baggley, Chris Bucher, Trey Lyles, Jonathan Kaminga, Precious, James Johnson, Marie Morris. This is where you kind of get to the iffies. I wasn’t I John. Oh, he’s a restricted. So, that won’t happen. Bull Bull. There’s still a lot of different names on here that that could honestly become a Piston. There’s maybe one or two that I’d actually want and think could make a decent impact before we’re we’re thinking of trade options. But the the point of today’s episode, getting right into it, though, is this or that. We’re going to be comparing things throughout today’s episode. And what we’re going to be starting with is comparing this off season to the previous offseason. So, right now, so far, unfinished, we have Duncan Robinson coming in. We have Caris Lever coming in. We have Paul Reed, who is, I mean, opted back in, but but we’re losing some pretty key pieces that actually made this Pistons team flow, made them function, and THJ, Shrewd, Beasley. So, there’s a lot of variables leaving as well. But I mean with what we’re getting, I like what what we’re getting. Sean, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I would say in a vacuum if you were to just look at the players coming in this season versus last, if you were to know no context of, you know, like last year’s group before how it went, I think you would say, “Oh, this year’s group is significantly better.” just from a name value standpoint, you know, from a recognition standpoint, I think, you know, before Malik Beasley had one of the greatest three-point shooting seasons ever, I think people would have said that Duncan Robinson would have been more of a safe bet, you know, from beyond the arc than Malik Beasley. So, um I I would say that just looking kind of at how everything’s laid out thus far and especially, you know, and I think this is just really important to consider what the franchise kind of had to deal with. I’d say all things considered they’ve done really well. Now obviously they it’s it’s quite incomplete right now because there’s still whatever happens with the you know with the sign and trade situation with Sacramento it seems like they are very eager to offload Malik Monk which that’s a whole other conversation in the craziness of itself of how freaking stupid uh Sacramento is and how little faith and I I have and what they’re doing. But if you’re Detroit, definitely a real opportunity to take advantage there. Yeah, Malik Monk would be an absolute get and and that would kind of round out the additions of Duncan Robinson and Caris Levert looking at shot creators, looking at people who can find their own shot. Where with THJ and Beasley especially, a lot of that was from catch and shoot. A lot of that was from passes from Kate Cunningham. You had Malik Monk. You have three instant guys who can create and get a shot. They might not be able to hit the volume, but there’s been seasons where Duncan Robinson has been one of the best volume shooters with one of the best percentages. So, it’s a crazy crazy thing we’re going to witness this year. And a lot of the game plan is going to have to change. So, this is where we’re going to have to see a lot from JB Bicker staff adjust and kind of look at what worked last year, but now you do have to change quite a little bit because you can’t just revolve around just the catch and shoot because Caris Lever, he he’s an okay three-point shooter. Would you call him elite? I don’t think so. He said you’re just different personnel. They’re just they’re like they’re going to have to play a different brand of basketball. I think, you know, uh I think Duncan is obviously going to be able to still come off screens and, you know, he’s obviously going to be a big catch and shoot three guy, but you know, a lot of it’s going to be, you know, like making the right pass, making sure you’re taking a quality three-point shot because you have a lot of guys who can shoot the three, but that’s not what they’re known for. So, I I think it’s very uh I think it’s very similar to, you know, kind of like how you see, you know, Joic elevate his teammates whenever they play at Denver, like the Bruce Brown effect, right? I think it could be very similar to that coming in for, you know, like is because if if you really think about it, what’s the other best playmaker that Duncan Robinson’s played with in his career? Goran Dragich. Yeah. Like an old grown like an old Goran Dragitch. Yeah. I mean, not I can’t think of anyone in particular other than that. Yeah. Would you call Jimmy Butler a great playmaker? He’s a facilitator. Maybe not a not a playmaker. And and even calling him a facilitator feels like a little bit of a stretch. Like, yeah, he can he can drive and kick, but he’s not looking to pass the ball. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have a point there with Cade being kind of that instant upgrade over anything he’s ever had and has and will probably ever have to play with. So, you’re talking about one of those rhythm shooters who’s going to get the ball in the right spot every single time. So, I don’t want to Oh, Dwayne Wade. So, how what was that crossover there, Sean? someone Wade. Well, I mean, he he very briefly, they might have very briefly crossed paths. Although, I’m pretty sure his his rookie year was the bubble year, which if that’s the case, like, yeah, he was undrafted. He played in Miami, but like even if he did play with Dwayne Wade, that was like his very last season. So, they did not cross paths. Like, if they did, it was very briefly. Um, it looks like Duncan Robinson came in 2018. I don’t that might have been his brief st. Yeah, 18, but he only played 15 games. Then 1920 was his like first full NBA season. So, you’re right there uh right with with the bubble year. Um, anyways, I I can’t remember the point I was getting to with that, but but the main point is when you have a volume shooter like Dunc Duncan Robinson, when you have a Cade Cunningham, even in Assar Thompson who’s shown he can pass the ball, even a Jaylen Duran that can get Duncan the ball in the right spots, why can’t he have something at least similar to what Beasley just had? Yes, it was historic in terms of a Pistons season, but I mean, what are the three-point shooters we’re putting Beasley up against in Pistons history? Like Sadiq Bay, Allen Houston. I mean, it’s not a huge huge list. Well, he did also have I mean, let’s not discredit Malik’s three-point season. He had one of the greatest three-point shooting seasons in NBA history. Like, it wasn’t just Pistons history. It was NBA history, period. But, you know, I’m a hater because of what happened. Sean, I’m salty. I get it. But at the same time, I do find it awful. Like, this is this is my thing with sports fans, right? How damn quickly the energy can change. Like, yeah. Like you want to talk about conditional love, find it nowhere more like like prominently than sports. Malik Beasley a month ago, not even a month ago, like a week and a half ago. Yeah. One of the most beloved athletes in all of Detroit. Now you go through like you go through Pistons Twitter, everybody’s clowning on the guy. Everybody’s making fun of the guy. And listen, I’m not saying that he didn’t put himself in this in this situation or this alleged situation. There’s a whole lot of stuff that we’re learning and a lot of what we’re learning is not great. But I do find it kind of disgusting that our first instinct is to pile on the guy. That’s what I’ll say. The the one thing I’ll say, Sean, is it seems like he’s uh been included in a uh impractical Joker’s punishment here for the past couple years. Anyways, uh Sean, moving forward a little. I guess disregard what I said there. Anyway, yeah, let’s just pile on. Anyway, um Sean, I I do want to talk about some of the options for the backup four, and this is where we’re going to continue the theme of this or that. There’s a lot of different players that we could choose from, and maybe it’s not just through free agency. I did talk about Chris Buché. We I did talk about Trey Lyles a little bit as well earlier, mentioning some of those names. John Collins is another big name, but also on a hefty expiring deal. There’d have to be some finagling and there might have to be some getting rid of these smaller contracts such as Bobby Clintman, such as Marcus Sasser. It might be a cheap cost to get him, but is it worth getting rid of that? I don’t think so. Yeah. No, you’re going to have to give up a lot more than that. John Collins is going to be making about $26 million this year. And then uh and then it is expiring, granted, but I just John Collins, my thing with him is with what you’re with what you’re paying versus what you’re getting. Yeah. Uh I I just don’t know if if the return is necessarily worth, you know, just justifies the means. And I mean, it says a lot that even Malik Monk is is having a hard time finding a suitor unless he ends up in Detroit right now. Malik Monk is like one of the better scorers in the league. He just won six man of the year what, like a year or two ago. Whereas now, you know, he we’re in a situation where, you know, a guy like John Collins, his contract because of the modern salary cap is like borderline like un not borderline, it’s undesirable. No team wants it. Like it’s it’s not it’s it’s not conducive to winning, especially when you talk about, you know, some of the deals like if Detroit like like Yeah. Like Malik Monk that that contract might be teetering around the end, but that’s like 181 19 million. Yeah, that’s not a lot. And it it’s a trend we’re seeing with a lot of these guys. Cam Thomas doesn’t have a market. Jordan Clarkson got bought out. Colin Ston was traded in a salary dump. I mean, there’s probably Anthony Simon’s been in basically a salary dump. It worries me a little bit about this Jaden Ivy contract. And I do think that with Ivy, the very big difference here is that we just haven’t seen the ceiling where these other guys, we kind of know what they’re going to be. Jaden Ivy still has that option to become a true second option in a 24 25 point per game score in a winning system. But the the the the difference I I I don’t know if it goes wrong for Ivy and he does get a big contract like people are saying 20 to 25 million who’s to say in a year that’s not a negative contract. And I’m not projecting that. I’m just saying look at what’s happening around the league. Yeah. the the one thing I will say as a as a thought experiment today um I because I went through and I see a lot of people comparing these two players a lot and I was like all right I’m just curious so I pulled up the stats of Jaden Ivy and Colin Ston from last season and I kid you not leie like it is photo like it is it almost feels like you’re looking at the same one like it is like it is photo identical it is like the almost the ex almost the exact same. And so, um, even like a lot of like the percentages, like I think points per game-wise, they were only like 08 points apart. Um, they’re like right there in a lot of those categories as far as, you know, how they play. And I looked into, you know, some of Ivy’s, you know, like analytics and just kind of where he was last season. And granted, 30 game sample size, but even in that 30 game sample size per clean glass, he was at the he was in the 43rd percentile at the rim, 39th percentile in the short mid-range, and then he was in the 32nd percentile for his mid-range game as a whole. Like the only area from a scoring standpoint that Jaden Ivy was elite last year was non-corner threes. He was 44% from from non-c corner threes which was in the 96th percentile. So it’s funny like we talk a lot about Jay Ivy’s game and like how good of a scoreer he can be but like the shooting is the weakness. I actually think if you look at his if if you look at his stats and if you look at kind of like his analytics his weakness right now is around the rim. Yeah. Me like I’m I’m going through I’m sorry I just want to make one more quick point. Um, I’m going through and doing this like watch through again of like the entire season and like I want to watch like all 82 games and just take notes and see what I notice. The first thing I noticed with Jay Ivy was just all the the attacks to the rim where there’s almost like no direction or just kind of flailing and you know he he’s he’s bulked up but still doesn’t quite have that strength to finish at the rim. And so I just to me it’s like if you’re talking about how is Jay Nivey going to get to that next level. He has to get consistent at the rim. Yeah, that’s a good point. When you have that athleticism, you’re going to be able to get to that area. But the difference is how you finish. I think the biggest thing from Cade that we’ve seen these past couple years is he doesn’t have the athleticism, but he’s one of the better guard finishers at the rim. Even though just by the eye test, I don’t think I would really believe that. So, it’s kind of the anti Jaden Ivy in that point. But yeah, Jaden’s three-point shooting has has really surprised me and I really would have loved to see an 82 game sample size because I feel like if you get all 82, you have a really good idea of if he’s in that Anthony Simons, Colin Ston tier or if he can be a tier above. But right now, I mean, it’s all just looking at promise. And Sean, you mentioned that the stats for Jay Ivy, Colin Ston were very similar. I know the prompt is power forward right now, but interesting conversation. Yeah, even looking at some of the advanced stuff. I don’t know how hard it is to see from your screen or from anyone else’s screen, but a lot of these look pretty similar. I mean, section Jaden Ivy, even looking at the advanced stats, not just the counting stuff. I mean, in the percentiles, there’s some that are different than the others, but a lot of them are similar. Yeah. Uh the thing where you see a really big uptick is the defense for Jaden Ivy, which I can think which which I thought was a little bit more surprising. Yeah, because that that’s a positive. Very much so. I mean, in the 84th percentile for rim defense, there’s just a and then there’s some on here where I’m like, what is this RPF re relative personal fouls? I’ve never heard of that stat in my life. But the takeaway from that is I think offensively he has that that mold to be kind of similar to those guys. But defensively, I think he can kind of be a step above the guys I’ve already listed two or three times. like I don’t think he’s he’s going to be one of those salary dumps because he’s always going to have that two-way ability. But getting back onto the topic a little bit, Sean, unless you had something else to say about Ivy, I was just going to add one more thing. Yes, please. Um, what if I told you Jaylen Brunson had a higher percentage of finishing at the rim than Jaden Ivy? I would agree with that, but you would think he wouldn’t because he’s six feet tall. You would think he wouldn’t because he doesn’t have the same athleticism and explosion and burst. But the difference is, and this is just where I think, you know, Ivy can see like continual improvement. Brunson’s not the strongest guy, but you know what he’s really good at? He’s really good at He’s really good at finding angles to finish. Exactly. Because that was my thought when you brought that up. I was just thinking of watching those playoffs, seeing how he can put it off the glass, how he can create that space, stopping on a dime. I really liked what you said about Jaden Ivy kind of I don’t want to say flailing. I don’t think that’s a great word for it, but he does just kind of go in there and he thinks he can just beat the defenders every time where Brunson, he outsmarts the defenders and he’s able to kind of create that advantage himself. He has to make that college to pro adjustment. Yes. And I think that this offseason is a really good time for that. And I think adding a Levert and Duncan Robinson, people might say, “Well, there’s not as much spacing.” But the thing there is is there’s going to be a lot more offball movement for Jay Ivy where I think he was really good. And Sean, I I really applaud you for going through watching all 82 of those. I’d love to see some of your notes. But the I would really like to see Jaden Ivy offball movement and kind of seeing how that’s going to progress because if he’s already doing great, imagine what it’s going to be next year when there’s going to be other guys who can handle the ball in in a really positive way for this team. Yep. For sure. Okay, moving back to our topic and we have about eight probably eight to 13 more minutes to go. Uh we have a strict cut off here from me and being back on baby duty. Uh, I want to talk about some of these power forward names and we we dug into John Collins a little bit. I think we kind of agreed that the cost is a little bit too much. I think the positive for me is you when you don’t have these large salaries on the team yet, I feel like this is the time you you should be able to take in a large one year because God knows John Collins won’t be making 26 million next year. He will make it his contract. Of course, unless he absolutely turns up then it’s worth it. But I mean, the biggest thing is if he plays like how he is right now and even better, he’s probably going to be in that 13 to $16 million range. I think by looking at some of these other contracts in the league, all that being said, I think you have to gut a little bit too much to get there. So, what are some of your cheaper options? Because to me, I would really like to see Bobby Clintman. I don’t know if you can just kind of force him into this into the limelight there. But at the same time, we’re looking at Chaz Laneir and looking at the shooting on this team thinking he might have to play. He might have to get some run to kind of get some spacing. So Bobby, he should be in that same sort of trajectory, but I I I don’t know. What are your thoughts on Bobby? What are your thoughts on the field? Yeah, this this to me is where this sign and trade situation with Sacramento becomes very interesting because I think there’s a very realistic chance that our that you know if if there’s something that Tjan does with that signin trade outside of getting Malik Monk, he can also bring back a an exception you know for for salary. So he he can also bring back more flexibility and choose to go like go get like get a different contract as well. So th that that’s kind of the thing that I’m looking at is how does that change or evolve the four market that you’re looking at. Um you know I I I know uh Chris Buchet is someone uh that was was listed you know with the Pistons as interest for like the veteran minimum. He’s someone that I think would be worth looking at with his size and kind of with his you know somewhat stretch abilities. Um you know obviously I know you bring up Trey Lyles. I I I do remember him saying something about not enjoying his time in Detroit very much. So, um whenever you hear that type of stuff, I personally have some questions uh for sure. Uh but, you know, I I I do think that, you know, this is going like, you know, talk about like things to watch for in summer league, which this year, let’s be honest, it’s not much. But, if there is anything to watch for is will we see Bobby Clement? I imagine we will. Uh, you know, there there’s probably a chance we see Ron Holland as well. uh do we see you know like like how much do we see of Chaz Laneir how NBA ready you know does he look but from the forward like perspective like I think when you’re talking about like what would be one of the best things for the Pistons from a salary cap perspective is if they can hit on one of those second round picks like a Bobby Clement that’s why you saw so much movement at the top of the second round this year was because so many teams realize like oh shoot like if we want to bolster out our depth and and get good like OKC and Indiana you got to hit a lot of these undrafted some second round picks. And so, uh, that’s why I I do think that there is going to be, you know, a real chance for Bobby to at least at some point this season come in and let’s see what he does. Yeah. Bobby Clintman is 22 years old already. And so, you don’t draft him to be a continual G-League guy unless he that he just busts and he’s not going to be able to get up. This is the year where I feel like you give him the opportunity. I’m not going to say you give them all of those backup power forward minutes, but you if you go into next year with this this lineup we have now, you could see Tobias playing the four. You could see Assar Thompson playing that four as well. And then you could have Duncan Robinson, Caris Lever, you could have a bunch of different guys play the three as well. Bobby Clintman should be able to get some minutes. See what he’s able to do. He’s going to be playing in Euro Basket representing Sweden uh this summer. So, I I’m really excited to watch that because he he’ll be going against NBA talent. There’s other guys in there that are playing for their countries. I think I don’t know if Lori Markin is suiting up, but he’s at least going um going to be there as well. So, I’m really excited to kind of see what Bobby can do. I I I don’t know if we can really bank on that being an absolute um he is the absolute solution here. So maybe we do have to go out and get somebody to at least kind of fill in the gap because if we’re looking at the power of a lot of these rosters in the NBA, they’re pretty consolidated within certain positions. Unless you have a team like last year’s Boston where all around it’s just beautiful, beautiful names everywhere. With Detroit, I feel like you’re really going to be banking on your guards. You’re going to be banking on your wings. So what can you do to fill in to do just enough at that backup four? Yeah, for sure. That’s kind of where I’m at with that. Yeah, it’s I I I think really the big thing is you’re just looking for someone to give you a reliable 10 15 minutes a night. I don’t think that’s a position where you need, you know, to go out and get a big name because like you said with a lot of the flexibility like you’ll probably see a decent amount of Ron or or Assar playing the four. You’ll probably see a decent amount, you know, of, you know, you never know. You could see Detroit experiment more with double bigs this year just with how with how important big play has gotten. So, we’ll see what Detroit does, but at the very least, you know, like it it is I I do think like if you’re talking about like the glaring weakness on this team, it’s that or backup point guard, but even then with like the backup point, like Harris can handle the ball. I can handle the ball. You go get Malik Monk, he can sure as hell handle the ball. Yeah. Put a Sar Thompson in some of those sets because we did see him handle the ball quite a bit down the stretch. one. You gave me a crazy idea, Sean, and I I don’t think this actually makes sense, but if we’re looking at a crazy reality, I mean, watching Isaiah Stewart be able to get some of those backup four minutes, Assar being able to split some of those backup four minutes and then maybe not consistently, but more than last year, seeing Paul Reed at that backup five to be able to kind of I mean, that’s kind of the option of if we go into this year with the same exact roster we have now, maybe that’s something to experiment with, but I don’t I don’t think that’s a great option. It’s just something that came out. I just it just it’s I mean like with with Isaiah Stewart with the four, we already had the entire body Williams here to see that that’s just not where you know he he’s at his best. Like I just I really think you’re taking away a lot of what makes Isaiah Stewart special when you’re not letting him play at the rim. You could potentially put Isaiah at the five and if Paul can be like a roaming four, like that’s something that would be a little interesting to me. But at the same time, like Paul Paul is definitely serviceable, but like I also don’t know if he’s someone that you want to be relying on consistently over an 82 game stretch. Yeah. And you know, like when you talk about like, you know, where Detroit could potentially have areas to trade and, you know, opportunities to find someone like I I always think we’ve kind of all seen like, oh, well, who would be a great person to put alongside Kade? Either like an amazing four or amazing five. Like I think that would be like the perfect pairing with Kade is that type of dynamic star. So, who knows? I mean, that’s that’s one other thing I’ll say about a lot of the acquisitions Detroit made this off season. A lot of tradable contracts. Yes. a lot of two to threeyear salaries, a lot of non full guarantees, like very very flexible even if these players don’t work out. And that’s the thing for me with getting a Malik Monk as well is he does have a little bit of time, but it’s not an outrageous contract and maybe he is considered a quote unquote salary dump, but it’s money. It’s a lot of money. So, you package that up with an intriguing young player and some picks and as well as like a Duncan Robinson that has an out at the end of his contract or Caris Levert who has an out in his contract. You can go and put that all together to create something good. Is Malik Monk from just like solely like if if we’re looking if if we’re calling him a salary dump, is Malik Monk the greatest salary dump in the history of the NBA? I think that’s kind of what you have to be looking at. I mean, Anthony Simons, if you want to consider that one, that’s kind of up there. But I think Malik is a little bit more accomplished. I think Anthony Simons maybe is as a as a prospect and as a an idea. I want to like that better than Monk. But I think you’re you’re right on the head with that one with Malik. Simons is also known as I think I think a lot of people refer to him. I I I think statistically he is the worst defensive player in basketball. Oh god. But he is in that conversation. That’s the That’s the unfortunate thing. If you want to know why Efy Simons ain’t in Portland, it’s because he can’t defend worth a damn. Um, okay. I just I I looked up Sean real quick before we head out. What are the best salary dumps in NBA history? Uh, let’s see. Vlad Devok to the Hornets for Kobe Bryant in order to clear space for Shaq. But that is, I guess, more of the best trade rather than the I don’t think that necessarily. Yeah, I read that. It was the first thing on Reddit. Okay, Sean. Well, here here here’s one thing I’ll say. Uh we could be looking at a LeBron James salary dump for the Lakers in the next few months. So, that very well could uh could negate that right there. Yeah. Sean Sean, this was a great time talking with you on this Fourth of July. Now, let’s all go out and do what we do best, and that is what are we going to do on the rest of this Fourth of July? I’m going to go up and finish watching Scooby-Doo with my son. Yeah. I’m going to make sure my cat doesn’t flip out and like break things because of the fireworks. So, that and probably uh throw on some, you know, play some college football before the new one comes out on Monday. That’ll be fun. Yeah, once that does, my social life’s over. It’s been wraps. It It is wraps. I I probably get it late, I think, for I’m not a huge college football buff, but I think I had this this game and it was pretty good the first few months. So, if they have a lot of different additions, I might look into it. I may or may not have put in like 500 hours over the course of the game. May or may not. Yeah, I can’t prove it. Innocent until guilty like like Malik Beasley. Let’s see if it focuses in 478. There we go. Right there. How can I just make you the one screen to be able to pull it up? But anyways, Sean, this has been a great time. We’re going to be back at it again. And I just want to shout out our guy Brennan. A lot of good stuff coming for him. Uh but but Brennan, we miss you on these and we’ll have you back on here soon. So from the 313 Connect crew on the Legisports YouTube channel, we will talk to you later. See you.

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