Garden Report w/ Gary Washburn: Lillard Latest, Jaylen Brown Opens Up & Celtics vs Knicks Postgame

Garden Report w/ Gary Washburn: Lillard Latest, Jaylen Brown Opens Up & Celtics vs Knicks Postgame

Hard hat’s all about showing up to play hard, doing what it takes to win. If you want to cement legacy, win another. He’s your third center. You don’t want to pump him up too much, but it’s hard not to. This is maybe the most I’ve ever agreed with you. Hey, Bobby Manning here and welcome to a summer league edition of the Garn Report. Game two in the books and the Celtics win by double digits again. Even with Ugo Gonzalez sitting out. Miles Norris rested this game as well. Rest nights for both those guys. Gonzalez, Brad Stevens said he’s going to need a night off after playing most of that game in the opener and the quick turnaround from Spain and all the rest. So, not unexpected there. Sounds like he’ll go tomorrow against the Heat. And we have with us here Gary Washburn from the Boston Globe as well as a ride Blakeley’s Big Three podcast. Welcome in Gary. Good to be here guys. Good and gals and everybody. Good to be here. Noah Dallas alongside as well. So we will open with this game and your overall thoughts of summer league so far. Ugo played in the opener. Uh you’re seeing Charles Basy come through with another monstrous double double in this one and we’ll talk about where he’s headed potentially here. But it was an interesting game because the Celtics pretty much cruise through. Um a lot of pressure defensively playing up pressing. They’re trying to play faster. I think that’s a priority that they’re trying to bring into this year. So what have been your thoughts about the summer league overall? Uh pretty positive. They’re they’re very talented team up and down. Um, obviously they rested Ugo today and Miles Norris, but they still kind of pretty much handled the Knicks the whole way. I think the league got up to 21 or 22 and uh, you know, they just withtood a bunch of runs, but um, I was impressed. I mean, Jordan Walsh looks comfortable out there, although he had a lot of fouls today. He was, uh, he was, uh, he fouled five times in like Yeah, yeah, he was like Daniel Ty Jr. out there today. Uh but he looks comfortable out there. Bridges I was very impressed with. Uh really just a guy who plays in the flow of the G game. 38 Green uh I think is his other the other uh number 38. Um because I haven’t memorized the entire roster and they played almost everybody today. Uh I thought I thought he was good. Um but I Yeah, I think overall I think overall just impressive. Uh, I know they’re playing Wong get at at the point because they don’t really have a true point guard. Um, but yeah, I mean I think they’re doing what they’re supposed to do and with Williams and and Basy in the paint. I mean, that’s a real dynamic duo for summer league, right? Um, two a two-way guy and a guy who’s obviously shown that he can play in the NBA um in the paint. So, they’re just dominating the board. So, and I thought um you know I was interested to see basically basically against the the Knicks two-way guy, the big man, and he fared very well against him. So, I think that Yeah. Yeah. He’s passing all the tests. So, uh overall impressive. Um I know that you you you know, it’s point differential matters and all that and obviously record. So, we’ll see if they um keep winning and get you know, maybe have a chance. I know Noah’s rooting for this. Uh I was just gonna say we we heard Noah’s qu question after the game. She’s already starting to think about this as a championship team. Noah. Yeah, she’s Noah Noah Noah wants to taste a little champagne. Another listen listen. I’m going to be here until the very last day of summer league. And I would love to cover a summer league championship. You know, Celtics season ended in the second round. Like I need to be around like championships right now. So she’s ready for the parade. about that. Yeah, exactly. She’s ready for the parade. Yeah, you might be better off. Yeah, Gary, I’m curious because I think the guys that matter the most for the Celtic standpoint are, you know, Baylor Sherman, Jordan Walsh, Ugo Gonzalez. Like, outside of that, we don’t know who else is going to be on. I mean, obviously two ways as well, but the other guys, I don’t know if they’re going to find their way in Boston or if they’re being showcased for another team. But, you know, in your years covering the league, like how much does it really matter if Baylor is shooting well right now or how if he’s dominating versus kind of doing what he’s doing? Like, is it just could he just be having a tough week or does it start to kind of matter? You think, and it’s your second year, you’re one of the oldest players and you want to kind of dominate the game more? Like, it’s hard for me to gauge how much the stuff really matters. Yeah, that’s the thing. I think shooting percentage gets overrated in summer league. Like, everyone was ripping Cooper Flack because he went five for 21 in his debut. Like, and he was so impressive in that game. Yeah, Cooper Cooper flag’s going to be fine and I think Baylor will be fine. What you’re looking for in summer league is where players can get to their spots. Uh whether they can get their shot off. Um just kind of their overall comfort around players who are all like, you know, overseas guys, free agents, rookies, that type of thing. Second round picks. So, I wouldn’t play too much into the Baylor three-point percentage. I know he struggled the first two games. Um, but he looks comfortable out there, but eventually he’s going to need to stop knock start knocking them down. Now, will uh let’s say he continues to struggle in the last couple of games or who knows, he might this might be it for him. He might sit out the last three games um being a former first round pick. I mean, I don’t think he’s going to play all five obviously, but does he take the rest of the summer and work on some maybe mechanical stuff with his shot? Like, this might spark something like that, some work, uh, extra work on his jumper. Um, because they might see something that’s maybe a glitch in his release or something. Um, but I’m not as concerned about Baylor. The my major only concern uh Noah number one was Jordan and whether he looks like a real NBA player out there and I think he does. He has looked very comfortable. Obviously he’s only 21 years old. He’s been through this is third summer like he should. I mean I think we kind of felt that way about JD Davidson last year, right? Like okay JD like this is uh you you you’re you’re reaching the super senior level of the summer league. uh you know, you you got to look like one of the better players on the floor. So, I think with Jordan, he looks like it. With Baylor, maybe not as much, but I think Baylor, um I think Baylor will be fine. He’s doing other things besides scoring, but obviously they’re going to need him to knock down the three. So, I was listening in and Brad has said this stuff in other press conferences. Does he repeat a lot of the same stuff we’ve heard, but he went on the broadcast during the game and was talking about guys not trying to do too much, specifically Shyman, cuz it does feel to some degree like he is heading down that Walsh road from a year ago trying to press, trying to show off, trying to do all this different stuff. And I think you saw that especially in the first game. Tonight was a little better. So that stood out to me. And then number two, he has said this a couple times as well, is we might have to play a little different this year. Our style might have to change. We might have to play the strengths of the guys who are on our roster. It’s a different roster now. Obviously, a drastically different roster. And I was saying this to know the rest of the Guard report, Gary. It’s going to drive me crazy if they’re just having Walsh stand in the corner and shoot threes. And Ugo, who’s obviously his skill set is not shooting threes. Uh guys up and down the lineup who can you get them involved in some other ways. I love hearing Matt Reynolds say talking about doing some more cutting and Sherman said that they’re doing that too. I think that’s a great addition to this offense. And then we obviously talked to May not who’s a good cutter and Gar is a guy who does shoot threes but he’s more of a traditional center. So they have a bunch of different players who they’re going to have to figure out a different way to play around because they don’t have a five out offense anymore. They don’t have a Porzingis Horford level center anymore that you can play that style with. They’re going to have to play a little faster. They’re going to have to play a little more cut heavy. Are you expecting that this year? Yeah, I do think that they’re going to have to change some things because if you look at the numbers of the number of three-pointers they’re missing from this year, Tatum hit 250. Um Jay, sorry, Drew Holidayiday hit 108, Al hit 114, and Porzingis hit 103. So, um I can’t do my math that fast, but that’s like 600 threes or almost 600 threes that they’re going to miss uh this year and from last year’s team. So, you’re going to have to approach it differently because I just don’t think you have the the long grain shooters. Uh you’ve obviously got Pritchard and Hower back. Derek’s a good three-point shooter. Jaylen, you know, we’d like him to be better uh from beyond the arc, but he’s a streaky three-point shooter. He can hit five in a game and then he can go one for eight the next night. Um but I do think they’re going to have to be more defensive- minded. Not to say they’re not, but like they can’t win games having this like they’re not going to have a top five all-time offense next year. They’re gonna have to play really hard, hustle, get rebounds. Um I’m impressed with the defense um in the summer league. They’re they’re pressing. They’re they’re forced. Remember what the Pacers did in the playoffs, Noah? Like they were pressing all the time and it was so effective. Yeah, they forced a lot of New York a lot of New York turnovers. So, um, like you’re you’re you’re right, Bobby. I I I definitely think that they’re going to have to change the thing. They cannot just go out there and play, uh, you know, a Zula ball with with the spreading the floor when you don’t like I don’t know. I mean, I know Noah asked a really good question the other night uh last week to Brad about, okay, like the who’s playing center and it’s like none of the people we’re talking about shoots threes, right? So the you’re losing Horford and you’re losing Porzingis. That’sund 10 and something threes and both of them played shortened parts of the season. So uh their five is not going to be able to shoot three. So the five out thing ain’t working. So I think they’re going to have to play a little differently this year. And it’s interesting because Brad talked about that on draft night too that just him watching the finals made him kind of think about the stylistic changes that would be benefiting this team regardless. Now your hand is for us, right? Because we talk all the time about Joe Mazul and the three-point shooting, but he always said it was about the personnel, right? So it’s like the question is like now we’ll see. I guess what how do you kind of manage completely different personnel, but I also don’t know how much to draw from the summer league pressure. Like Matt Reynolds said today that sometimes in summer league it’s just easier to play that way. Everybody’s kind of pressuring full court. So is it a sign that the Celtics are going to do it? I don’t know. Uh but it’s fun to watch like stylistically them shifting away from the way they were playing previous years even though it was effective. I think I think fans are going to like this new style if unless it goes terribly, but I think there’s a lot a lot of promise from a stylistic standpoint. Yeah, I wouldn’t get excited about it because remember last summer they’re they’re gonna they’re going to play a lot of they’re going to play a lot of zone. Remember that oh the Celtics are going to play zone and they’re going to try because remember how Miami had locked them down in the 23 Eastern Final. So like I wouldn’t get too excited about this pressing defense and think they’re going to be like 40 minutes of hell. uh you know and just or 48 minutes of hell and just got like great teams on defense. Uh but I do think it’s something to look at. Well, they do have some different personnel this year. They do have some different guys they can go to and we heard from a couple of those guys here today. Josh Min who I’m interested to see where he’s going to play positionally and then Luca Garza who will probably be the backup center on this team if not the starter if he he breaks through in that position. So, uh, two guys you wouldn’t have expected coming from the same team to potentially have significant roles on this team, but we heard from them for the first time. Uh, today at halftime, here’s what they had to say. I mean, I think there’s a lot of things. Obviously, uh, the franchise speaks for itself. um and just the winning and the history and I’m a big basketball junkie. So, obviously the the chance to to put on that uniform and play for the Celtics is attractive enough, but obviously uh there’s a lot of opportunity, especially in the front court and with the guys that we have and and you know, I think they the front office and and the coaches believe in me and what I can do and um so I just saw that as a really good, you know, uh really good for me at this stage of my career. Talk about signing here. No, I didn’t. you know, so it was it was a surprise, but you know, I called him right away once I saw the news and and uh we were both excited. I mean, you know, we’ve been through a lot together. You know, we went when he was a rookie, you know, we went down to Iowa together uh to play for Iowa Wolves and went through training camp and then kind of made it up together uh to the Timberwolves and, you know, started to see opportunities both of us and, you know, both of us quite honestly really did produce when we did get those opportunities, but just didn’t see too many of them just because of how stacked of a roster we had. Uh, so it’s cool to see and, you know, have someone come with you, you know, that you’re have a good relationship and, you know, I feel like me and him have always connected on the floor, uh, just playing with each other. So, it’s going to be cool to to have the opportunity to continue that in Boston. What’s it been like playing? I mean, [ __ ] from the Iowa days, man, I think we all know he unstoppable on the offensive end for sure. Um, so he’s gonna be someone that can just really space the floor. Um, [ __ ] you can’t leave him open. You know, he’s energy guy. He’s going to get every old board. I think that’s uh that’s what I’ve observed out of him. And they shoot a [ __ ] ton of threes. Um but no, I mean I’d say overall just um just their movement uh ability to get downhill, create for others, you know, spray out threes, all that. Um just there’s a bunch I need to study for sure. What was your first impression of them, Noah? I was, you know, I had in my mind the story of like two best friends together. They were like, “We’re going to go from Minnesota to Boston.” So to hear that they didn’t even know the other was going to go. I was like, “There goes my story.” But no, they both seem like nice guys. I think I talked to some Minnesota reporters and it just I I think it really was one of those cases where they never really got the chance to show what they’re capable of. And I think this year is going to be an opportunity for a lot of guys that have had that situation in their career, both on the Celtics and in Minnesota. Um, and a few of them are going to filter through and and make an impact. And probably a few of them will be filtered out and maybe have to go elsewhere or they’re that’s how careers kind of come to a fizzle. So, I don’t know like who I really believe in yet between the those two guys and some of the guys in the Jordan, Baylor, like there are a lot of names of of players that have a ceiling and have some opportunity, but it’s it’s kind of hard at this point to be able to discern like who who’s going to break through. And I don’t know if the Celtics even know who’s going to break through, but they needed somebody besides Nia Kada in the front court. And now there’s going to be, you know, some competition at training camp for that starting spot. Um, and I I still think Kada probably has a leg up, but I haven’t watched enough Luca Garza to know how accurate that is. So, I love Garza, Gary. You know, I’m sure you watched him in college, too. And like he played against Syracuse while I was there and had a monster game. Obviously, all he did was have monster games in college. And the numbers haven’t shown it yet, but he can shoot. Like, he can pick, you know, pick and pop and hit a three. And you know, obviously if like small goes on him, he’s going to back that guy down and score. So the offense isn’t a question. It’s can he play defense in this league. And that’s what we’re going to see cuz he hasn’t played a lot. He’s been in the league four years and just hasn’t played much. And in the GLeague, he’s one of those guys that’s too good for the G- League. He dominates when he goes down there. So I’m intrigued by him. The defense is going to be a question with all these centers that they have this year. Kada’s had his ups and downs there, too. And if they go smaller there, obviously they’re going to be undized. But Garza to me, I almost venture towards saying he’s the most intriguing of all these centers because there’s a real bonafide skill set there on one end of the floor at least. Yeah. He reminds me and not of just kind of a Tyler Hanssboro like an amazing college career. Um, and then just couldn’t but but Answorth couldn’t find a fit in the NBA, you know, as kind of an undersized, but like, you know, an amazing college career. Garza was a guy, you know, like I think I said uh on another I think on the big three, like he was Caitlyn Clark at Iowa before Caitlyn Clark. Like he was like first team all-American story, career. They did, you know, the bio on the Big 10 network on him. like this is a guy who just probably uh is considered God when he goes back to to Iowa City um because of what he contributed to uh that program. And you’re right, Bobby, he just has hasn’t had the opportunity. So, the question is I think the one thing I noticed is he’s in uh really good shape. Uh you know, I think he was a little a little bit a little bit bulkier when he came into the league. Now he’s he’s he’s really lean and we’ll see like I just thought he kind of played with his hair on fire and that was the thing that that got him to where he was just like like that relentless uh situation. But in Minnesota obviously he played the first year in Detroit. The Minnesota you know he’s playing behind Nas Reed and Gobear and Julius Randall and like even let’s say a McDaniels when they want to play him at four. So the opportunity wasn’t there. uh might not uh I mean he’s played a career like I think it’s one of those situations like Jordan like he had a okay freshman year at Memphis and he came out and he’s played five minutes average five minutes a game over the last three years like we have no idea about Josh uh my not like I know he likes to say the swword a lot um every sentence yeah yeah like I was you know he’s uh He’s he’s a great He’s not gonna be good for TV. Yeah. Yeah. We don’t we not see him on the local networks too often. Uh but I just think he’s a complete mystery because he’s played so little. Like I said, look, average five minutes a game la and played very little last year. So like is he, you know, a guy who’s a candidate for potentially for Maine? Can he earn minutes uh on the roster in the front? I like we have no He should be playing on the summer league team. Yeah. Like I, you know, he’s not a guy that I’m just looking 93 games over three years. Um he averaged 2.6 points last year. He he shot 32% from three, but he took one three a game and he played he averaged only six minutes. Um so that’s like very little exposure to um NBA basketball. He’s played 463 NBA minutes uh in his career and he played more last year uh but still five minutes a game and he played 46 games. So like you guys might know more. I didn’t see him much at Memphis. Um you know, but I haven’t seen much of him at all. So I’m like what does he bring to the table and can what you know? So what what did the Minnesota people tell you about him? No, the opportunities have been so limited. Oh, Nick, are we getting Noah here? Can you hear me now? Yep, we got you. Just muted myself. Um, just yeah, he’s a high energy player, high character guy. was very involved in the community. Everybody liked him. Everybody liked having him around. Um but the opportunities were just so few and far between that it was kind of hard to evaluate the things that he’s supposed to do. Like he talked himself up as a defender. Um and I think that’s one of the things you want to see from him is being able to defend one through four as he said. Um I don’t think that he really demonstrated that in the small samples that he played in Minnesota. So, it’s just it’s it is like like like Gary said, it’s so limited that with all of these guys, like I bet you right now, if we rank who we think is the most promising of like these five or six guys in the roster that are all going to be in developmental phase and and kind of an experimental situation, a year from now, the ranking will be completely backwards like where we really it’s I think I really think it’s really hard to gauge, but that’s kind of what they’re doing, right? They’re trying to give a bunch of young players, you know, lowcost contracts um and see who surfaces. And so, you know, there’s we’re all going to have our own opinions, but ultimately they’re all very limited because none of these guys have really played much at all in the NBA. Well, that’s exciting to see guys you don’t know much about learn their games, give them opportunities, and even guys who have been on the roster, Gary mentioned Walsh, Shyman last year, obviously didn’t get full opportunity. You’re going to get a chance to go deeper into your lineup and see what you have this year. And I think that’s a worthwhile thing cuz development, bringing guys up, finding guys who I call it the second draft thing. I didn’t come up with that, but they do they’ve done that a little bit over the last couple years here and it hasn’t worked with Banton and Springer and some of these other guys. So mine didn’t work for him in Minnesota. Didn’t get a full opportunity. He’s probably going to get to play a little bit here at least in Maine as Gary said there. And he’s got some length. He’s got some defensive um you know tools that he hasn’t actualized yet. I know you mentioned that, Noah, that end of the four, we’re going to see what he has there, but um he might be a small ball center and I asked him about that today and he said maybe I can guard fives a little bit and I know Brad mentioned using some smaller players at the 52. So that’s what intrigues me about him. And there’s some other news on the Celtics world we want to get to. Obviously Celtics move to 2 and 0 here in their summer league slate. They’re going to play the Heat again uh tomorrow. So stay tuned for our coverage of that. 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So, continuing on here, Gary, you’ve been reporting this Damen Lillard saga throughout, and I want to hear from you on this is the Celtics feel like one of the stronger destinations for him. And my big question is whether he’s going to sign this summer and I don’t know take a minimum take a mid-level at the Bucks money offset and allow him to be on a team uh through his recovery process and get started building toward what he’s going to do probably I’d say the next season after this one or at least late this season. Uh, so are we gonna see him sign with the team this summer potentially or is he gonna wait till next summer when he’s healthy and can maybe sign more of a real long-term contract? Yeah, it’s an interesting I think no one really knows what is going on in Lillard because this is the first time he’s been like a free agent and I was told that he was kind of ready to leave. Milwaukee just wasn’t ever really a great fit. Obviously, when Portland was looking to move him, he wanted to go to Miami. that didn’t work out. Um, you know, there was the the Celtic rumors and I know, uh, our friend Chris Haynes was like, “No, he ain’t going to Boston.” I’ve been told that that’s a little different now and that, uh, he’s, you know, he’s he’s open to to to new teams and obviously he wants to win a championship. The only thing he does not have in his career is a title. He’s top 75. He’s going to the Hall of Fame. He’s fourth all time in three-point uh, makes. So, the only thing DNE doesn’t have is a chip or even getting close to one, right? So, um I think it all depends on what he wants to do in terms of like does he want to make 10 million instead of let’s say the Celtics have the taxpayer mid-level at 5.6 or 5.7 like does he say no I think I want 10. Like is it you know this he was paid very handsomely in Portland. He signed the max deal there. um he’s gonna get all his his his cash from the Bucks. So, I don’t think money is the issue. It might be fit. It might be just kind of taking the summer to spend time with his family. I know he wants to be he loves Portland and he had a I think what uh people may have overlooked or you know he had a really nasty divorce um and his family you know his kids stayed in Portland while he was in Milwaukee. So, I just think he’s enjoying the home time. I think maybe a condition um to sign with the cells might be just to spend some more time rehabbing in Portland. I don’t think the cells would have major issue. I think they can, you know, Dame’s a professional. He’s not going to lax off and, you know, to be around his kids. I mean, they’ve encouraged family thing. Obviously, Noah has written a lot about that just kind of how the Celtics really uh encourage family. And so, to me, I just think it all depends on what Dame wants. I know the Celtics have an interest. I think it would be awesome in my opinion to unleash him in 2627 along with Tatum and Brown and White and Pritchard and then see about winning a chip because like you have to try to take advantage of the window of Tatum and Brown. This they’re they’re not going to be young forever and Jaylen’s a few months from 29. Jason’s coming off a major injury. We can’t assume they’re going to be, you know, balling at a high level to their 35 and 36. Like, you just can’t do that. You’ve got to hit the coals where they’re hot. Yeah. It’s interesting because there was really not a lot of momentum the last time around. And I wonder how much what part of the is like, well, I wanted to go to Miami. Now I have the opportunity to go to Miami if I want. I assume any team would sign him for a minimum if he’s willing to take that. I probably get more, but he kind of has his his his pick right now. Um, I would guess unless unless there are some, you know, there are some teams that don’t want to take the one year on their books for a player who’s not going to be able to contribute. But the question for me is who is going to be able to give him the best chance at winning a championship in a year and it’s so hard to gauge right now because so much is going to change. Like I’ve seen him linked to the Warriors because he’s from Oakland. Like is that team going to really have much left in the tank in another year from now? Um, you know, teams that are kind of middling, that are on the rise, maybe they present a better opportunity. I’m sure a big part of his calculus will be trying to kind of figure out a year in advance who’s going to be in the mix. Um, and so in a sense there’s almost like some advantage to waiting till December if he can, right? See how some of these teams shake up and like are the Celtics a total disaster? Is are the Warriors, you know, Steph Curry got hurt, knock on wood, like stuff like that. Like I think he he has a little bit of incentive to not make a decision right now and to just see how the teams that he’s eyeing come together in the fall, right? So, do you anticipate that this decision will be made like this summer or is this something that you think will probably spill into next season? Yeah, that’s the interesting part. We don’t know because this is his first time in free agency. I don’t think he’s in a hurry, but I think he understands the politics and the business of the NBA and for him to wait till like, hey, I’m going wait till February uh till the trade deadline. Like, he could do that and he could just kind of rehab on his own. I’m sure he’s got a professional, you know, personal trainer in Portland. it’s going to put him through all the uh rehab, you know, or does he want to be affiliated with an organization? Does he want to be kind of a part of a team and knowing that like, you know, because the Celtics, let’s be honest, like they can go to him and go, “Okay, Dane, like if you really want to come back this year, you can or take the year off and then come back fully healthy in 26 27 and then you we’ll have a chance to win a championship.” And I think what people are overlooking about Dame is he played years in Portland with like a stomach muscle issue and then remember he missed Yeah. Yeah. Like he missed most of a season having surgery and he kind of said after that surgery like I feel younger because I played so long with this situation. So does that put a couple of years on his career? Like did we see serious slippage in Milwaukee with Dame? I didn’t really see serious slippage. I just saw kind of I saw kind of a poor fit. I just saw the everybody was talking about the pick and roll with Giannis and that never developed and then they went through um the you know uh Adrien Griffin situation and they brought in Doc and then you know Giannis missed some time and then Dame like it just didn’t work out there. It was not a great fit. So he had a blood clot too. Yeah, the blood clot. No, just I was going to say Gary, that’s a great point because I I do think obviously the Achily injury is a major one and who knows what he’s going to be when he comes back, but the reality is is that like people kind of talked about in the last few years like he had already really declined, but he really hadn’t. Like he had a fine couple shooting seasons like the the team being a mess and the situation not working out I don’t think was reflective of him not being the player that he was cracked out to be. Like maybe he’s not the best he’s ever been. Um, but he had two, you know, two solid years in Milwaukee. Uh, and I I do feel like it’s been a little bit like that story that story has kind of changed a little bit in the media because everybody thought that this was going to be like the next championship team and that they were going to be the most lethal duo and it just didn’t pan out. But up until the injury, I think he was still an elite elite player. And uh, after the fact, just because he’s a such a sharp shooter and like has been a historic alltime shooter, I think you take him if he’s interested. Like I can’t imagine the Celtics not wanting him for a good price because it seems kind of low risk, honestly. Yeah, I mean if you look at his numbers in the two years in Milwaukee compared to Portland, they’re eerily similar. Like he shot um he averaged 25.2 in 11 years in Portland. He averaged 24.6 in two years in Milwaukee. He shot 44% in Portland, 43.4 in Milwaukee, 37% from uh three in Portland, 36.4 in Milwaukee. like this. These are eerily similar numbers. Um, you know, his rebounds were a little bit up and his assists were a little bit up in his Milwaukee time. So, this is not you don’t you’re not seeing a major drop off of like shooting percentage, three-point percentage. Um, his two-point percentage was better in the in the slightly better in the two years in Milwaukee than it was in Portland. So this I I didn’t look at at Dane and think, man, now obviously his last year in Portland, he averaged 32 a game, but it was only 58 games. But that team was not exactly a playoff caliber team, and Dame was getting them shots up. He was taking 21 shots a game. Um he took 17.5 in his first year in Milwaukee in 17.1. And I think the advantage for the Celtics is they don’t need Dane to be number one, number two, or maybe even number three. Now, I don’t know how Dane will feel about being the fourth option behind Tatum Brown and White, but it’s a situation where he can flourish and he can get his shots and he can spread the floor. And people are like, “Well, he’s not great defensively.” But to me, like you like what 6’1 guard is like a damn defensive stopper? Like I’m just, you know, oh, this is this is part of that conversation too of what we said earlier. like this is going to be a different style of team and they might have some defensive weaknesses now. Like they had the luxury of all those years having defenders at every position, guys who can switch everything. That’s not how every team’s going to be in the league. So you have to prioritize the strengths where you can build them. And they just don’t have guard depth right now. You got White, you got Pritchard, and that’s great, but there’s nothing really behind those guys. So bringing in a Lillard and rounding it out with those three guys, I think it’s a no-brainer. If they want to shoot a lot of threes, this is a guy that can take eight, nine, 10 threes a game. and hit them at an efficient rate. So, I love all of it. Low risk with the contract. I don’t think there’s any reason to not like this unless you just don’t think he fits in personalitywise with the other stars here. But, you know, you’ve reported Gary that Tatum’s actually trying to get him here and those guys have a good relationship. Uh, you know, I think him and Brown have one too from what I gather. I I don’t exactly know that, but I think the stars on this team are amicable enough and they’ve shared the back court with Kemba in the past and Marcus obviously and some other, you know, high usage guards. So, I think he wouldn’t be a drastic change for some of those guys and the timeline obviously fits with Tatum, too. So, you know, is this something where Tatum saying like, “Oh, I want to rehab, you know, have you here and, you know, get through this Achilles thing together?” Like, is he pushing for this thing to happen soon? Yeah, I just was told that they’re communicating and and Tatum is recruiting. I mean, Tatum is the the face of the franchise. So, yeah, you’re told he’s recruiting and I don’t know if they’re like FaceTiming every day or they’re on Snapchat and sharing videos and you know, look at my uh rehab video. I’m Snapchat. Yeah, I’m swimming. What about you? What are you up to, Dame? Like, I don’t know if it’s it’s that deep. Uh but they are communicating and I think that it’s uh you know I think we all know Tatum’s going to be here for a long time and I think that um the players who have come to Boston I think you know from Kevin Garnett to Ray Allen to Isaiah Thomas um you know even our friend Marcus Morris guys who we traditionally thought might not like it here ended up really liking it in Boston and didn’t want to didn’t want to leave all the way now to Drew Holiday. He obviously was a fixture here in the community and it’s going to be you know um you know Portland might not be obviously it’s close to where he’s from on the west coast but um not that close but you know in a couple hour flight um but you know I’m sure he I think he very much enjoyed playing in Boston. Chris Staps did. So the whole concept of like you’re not going to like it there and the weather and all I think it’s a first class organization of how they treat their players and I think Dame is probably like a little bit older and now understands like okay I don’t want to be Barkley Malone Stockton. Uh I don’t want to be these great players who didn’t even sniff a championship. Like I think that’s got to be really important as he approaches I think he’s turning 35 um in a couple of days and um you know as he approaches his late 30s nothing’s promised and I think he has to kind of take advantage of a championship window. So speaking of Jaylen he’s been out doing his community work throughout this off seasonason. Feels like the trade stuff’s in the past here. He’s going to be the focal point on this roster here. And whether Lillard joins now or not, Tatum’s out for most if not all of the season and Damen Lillard will be as well if he does end up joining the roster in the near future here. So, this is the Jaylen show to some degree this season. And Dererick White’s obviously going to be a prominent part here and um you got multiple returning players from the championship still even with all the other guys going out the door here. But this is what we’ve talked about. This is Jaylen’s time here to show what he’s capable of leading a team and he’s talked about it in the past and this is something I think he’s wanted to some degree. So that’s the most exciting storyline for me going into this year and Noah and I have both had a chance to be around his community work a little bit this off season and Noah was at the bridge program last week. got to talk to him about the relationship with fans that we’ve uh you know discussed here and all it’s like the same people we’ve seen at every fan event Noah who are showing up and showing him a lot of love here and you know he’s a guy who’s gotten a lot of criticism in the past and I think he’s a guy who has talked up his ability to lead a team and how he’s had to sacrifice to be part of championship teams here. So I know you got into all of that with him. What was that conversation like? Yeah, I attended and I’ll link my story just so I know there’s a lot of quotes out there, but I attended his camp last week, which for those of you that don’t know, he runs a educational uh camp at MIT for a week every summer. He’s been doing it since 2021 and it’s he brings in different guests and speakers and it’s students from the Boston area and it’s just kind of this immersive like interdisciplinary educational experience. Um, and I talked to Jen like a week after the season ended. And the big thing that he said was, “This summer I’m going to be around Boston because usually I we play through June and I go travel around the world and this summer I’m going to be in Boston and I’m going to really immerse myself in the community.” Um, and then he said that and then pretty much every week since then there has been something going on that he’s giving away shoes or hanging out with fans or doing a pop-up or going to Canopy Lake Park or or whatnot. Um, and so most of our conversation centered around Bridge and I have a whole story about Bridge as well. um and just kind of why he’s so invested in that program and why he’s so invested in giving back and relationship with his grandmother and all of that. Um but he did also talk a little bit about how this summer has been almost kind of like therapeutic for him because I think it’s been well chronicled. He didn’t and we didn’t get into specifics of like around the things that really have bothered him, but it’s been well chronicled. I think that he’s been in trade rumors over the years. There’s it started with booze on draft night. There’s been the 1A 1B like you know being kind of in Tatum’s shadow and a lot of the discourse around that. Um, and I think he really has felt this summer that as he’s going to all these events that he has like these really diehard fans in his corner. Um, and it’s almost sounds kind of silly because like obviously you’re a franchise player like you have a ton of fans, but he’s he’s really gotten to know those people, the people that are fighting for him online and all of that. So, he got into all of that in our conversation. Um, and he got into how he feels like he there’s a lot more than he could show. And I know sometimes when he says stuff like that and he said that a lot over the years, it becomes a big story of like Jaylen says that he is sacrificed or and people look at his like usage rate or look at the shot attempts and I don’t get the sense that that’s what he’s talking about. Like I don’t think he’s going to shoot more next year. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he shoots the exact amount of shots that he shot in previous years. So I I you know, we’ll see how it all plays out. But I thought it was an interesting conversation and he was kind of like more more open than usual about just talking about these things and how some of it’s affected him and how the relationship this summer has been so positive and has been so nice to actually like like I think sometimes online feels so hostile that when you go into the community and you realize like what real fans feel like it makes a big difference too. Yeah. And I got some of the quotes lined up here. I want to read them off. Um he said it’s been a long journey here in Boston. I’ve had to deal with a lot. I feel like I haven’t been able to be myself in certain capacities because of the politics because maybe pe people feel uncomfortable with who I am and I know he used to express the difficulty or some of the apprehension he had coming to Boston in the first place because of the reputation and all that and then has met some of that head on with some of the business stuff he’s tried to do and all that. I know he’s spoken about that in other interviews. Um, as Noah mentioned, talked about the support he’s gotten from the fans head on with these. And again, at these events, it’s a lot of the same people there, which is pretty funny. So, like it’s some of his biggest supporters who are lining up and trying to, you know, see them and spend some time with them at a lot of these events that he’s done here. He said, “These people have become friends now. Um, I’m different. I’ve done different things, pissed people off, made people not like me, things like that. I appreciate those who show up. We have people who show up in the rain, which is true. I was there for that one. and that is very appreciated by me. So then he got into some of the um basketball stuff a little bit later and again that’s how this stuff reads to me, you know, as I read and I want to get the context of it, Noah, because this was obviously I think the quote that’s going to stand out to a lot of people. Um but it’s about the um things that he disagrees with here. And I want to pull up this one. I disagree with a lot of things. I’ve had to deal I’ve had to change roles, styles. I’ve had to do things that other players of my talent just haven’t had to do and I’ve been okay with them because I’ve always been a team guy. I feel like sometimes that gets taken for granted. I’m extremely grateful that we won a championship. I’m extremely grateful that we’ve been able to have success and that’s what it’s about. It’s not all about you. It’s not all about me. You know what I mean? I want the next generation to know that as well. It’s okay to play your role on the team. It’s okay to do whatever, but don’t let that define you. And then he capped off the piece. Um, as you wrote at the at the end there, I feel like I’m very talented. I’m one of the most I’m one of the talented people in this league on this planet. I feel like I’m looking forward to showing the world more this year, obviously. So, how did some of that stuff come up in your conversation? It all centered around just what what the kind of community work has done for him this summer. Um, and like I think part of why it has meant so much is because it hasn’t always been easy. So that was kind of the context like we the I actually didn’t intend to even get into that stuff when we were talking like we my story was about bridge initially. Um, but it’s nothing really completely new like I’m sure Gary who’s covered Jaylen most of his career or all of his career like this is the kind of stuff that he has said time and again and I don’t know you know he’s he never really gets into specifics around like the what’s the number one thing that he feels like he sacrificed. Um, I’ll just say from my standpoint, like I’m sure there’s a a feeling of like, you know, Tatum gets injured and like this team is immediately counted out, right? Like he’s not viewed as by a lot of people as a player who can kind of keep this team in in the mix single-handedly. Um, and so that’s that’s my own commentary, not his words. Um, but I wonder if like some of just the discourse around his abilities to lead the team and even as soon as like, you know, being very fresh off a finalist MVP, I think a lot of fans wanted to see him get traded this summer and get some assets back and kind of set the table. So, like I I think that’s more a lot of, you know, a lot of the things that he, you know, could be referring to. Um, but there’s we’ve had this conversation a million times whether he makes sense longterm alongside another supermax. Um, and all those logistical things and those play into it as well. But I think from his standpoint like he’s he’s been one of this this franchise’s pillars and like he still finds himself in those conversations a lot. Um and I can imagine that that has some sort of impact around you know how you feel about the city and the fan base and all of that. Yeah. and knowing him Gary and reading this and we’ve read similar stuff from him in the past like I think of that New York Times article he did where talked about some of the discomfort in the city and sacrificing here in this and obviously again he’s talked up his ability to lead a team and be a number one option and that’s obviously not the role he’s played here. What’s your reaction to this stuff? obviously like I feel like he’s probably felt uncomfortable at times here in the past and I think he’s in a much better place now with where he’s at on the team and in the city, but um there’s obviously still frustrating moments for him, I’m sure. Yeah. Um, with Jaylen, I think there’s a definite chip on his shoulder that has to fuel him. And I think that’s a lot of that comes out with kind of the booze on draft night because it kind of started that’s where it started. And I tend to think that people I don’t know if people booed because they didn’t like him. People booed in Boston because they don’t watch Pack 12 basketball and they had no idea about Jaylen Brown at Cal, right? I was the only one who was like, “This is a good pick.” Because I’m a cow guy and I watched and they watched them all his freshman year. Like people in the Northeast do not watch P like I had to be the only one um when it existed in the Northeast that subscribe to the Pac 12 network. And you know, I remember watching and I think ACC now. Yeah. And now now Yeah. Now down with the ACC, but we I think it started from there and I think he took that personally. But I also think it’s like the Jordan thing where it’s like any any slight I’m taking, you know, I’m just going to magnify it. But I also think it was the kind of the integ reintegration. It’s sorry. Also, the reintegration of Gordon Hayward back into the lineup and like that took Jake Jaylen, remember they made uh you know him and Jason went to the on the cusp of the of the finals without Gordon and without Kyrie and then Gordon comes back and then that took Jaylen’s minutes away and Jaylen felt some way kind of way about that. Remember his initial relationship with Kyrie? Now they’re buds, but they were not buds the first when he played the two years that Kyrie played in Boston. They were oil and water. Um, and I think that the kind of the discourse, the conversation about Jaylen over the years, you know, the turnovers, the ball handling, so some of it is his own. Like, you know, he’s he needed to get better and I think he there certain things he did get better at, certain things he could still work on. Um, but he he takes those as slights. And so for me, I just think he kind of feels like, man, I’m the senior member of this organization. Um, I’ve won a championship. I got an NBA Finals MVP and a Easter accomplisher MVP on my my mantle. And I don’t feel celebrated. And maybe that’s the discourse nationally. I think he is celebrated and appreciated in Boston because he’s by far from anyone gives to the community. I I remember like the uh you know every every community event used to be Taco Fall, right? When Taco was here, Taco was the one and Taco did everything. Taco was swimming with the kids and you know playing at Franklin Park Zoo and all that. Like Taco was the man. And Jaylen has kind of taken that mantle and really reached out to the regular folks in Boston who just love the Celtics. So he should be wildly popular. He’s going to get his number retired. Um, but I also think there’s kind of a national discourse. Well, Jaylen’s a number two and Jaylen needs to work on his handle and he’s, you know, he’s surirly and, you know, and I just think also he looks at the lack of marketing opportunities like, hey, I’m the NBA Finals MVP. Where are my commercials? Why, why am I not selling cars? Why am I not uh selling potato chips? You know, I think he kind of understand and he he and I think he understands fully understands his role as, you know, going out against Nike, not getting chosen for Team USA, all that incorporates this where, you know, Grant Hill basically go, “Oh, well, you know, Jaylen wasn’t a good fit.” Like, you know, wow, man, really like, you know, you don’t take the NBA Finals MVP and you don’t give him a a look. You just basically count them out. So, I think it’s not only the Celtics, it’s the national discourse, it’s everything that is kind of balled up into kind of a a a whole huge, you know, basketball filled with motivation, right? Um, and we’ll see. Now, and I agree with No, I don’t think he’s going to be chucking up 25 shots a game. He’s not going to be he’s not going to be Allen Iverson 2000, right? He’s not going to be just like, I’m I’m I’m getting my numbers. I don’t know about anybody else here. I think he’ll play within the team concept, but I also think he’ll embrace the new responsibility and I I think it’s an exciting time for him. And as much as I don’t, of course he’d love to play with Jason. Of course he’d love Jason back. Of course he wants to win a title, but I think this is new for him and I think he’ll embrace it. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think that that’s kind of what the premise was, Gary, what you said about him being in the community. like it is it is pretty rare for a player of his stature to be so available as he has been both this summer and also years prior, but I think especially like these last few months, he’s made such a concerted effort where he’s not only going to these events, but like he’ll spend 10 minutes while like we were at an event in Dorchester for Junth and it’s like literally every single kid in that gym he had an extensive conversation with where there’s pop-ups like eight hours sort of thing. So what you’re saying like you know there has been all this discourse and these debates and sometimes I can only imagine like it’s exhausting to me as a media member. I can only imagine what it feels like to be a player and to see your name on social media and all the discourse and the trolls and all of that. And so um I I do think that’s that’s been what has kind of anchored him this summer is this realization of like this community really cherishes him and despite all the noise and all those things and now he has this really unique opportunity that he probably was never going to have in Boston. I mean, he he wasn’t going to have in Boston um had Tatum’s very unfortunate injury not happen. So, I’m very curious. You know, we this second Tatum went down, I was thinking like it’s going to be really intriguing to see because it was a hypothetical that we never really expected to see play out here. Similar to like Peyton Perchard as a starting guard. Like I was like, I don’t know if that’s ever going to be with the Celtics. I’d love to see it. Like, I’m very curious about it, but is it going to be in Boston or is it going to have to be like he goes to Charlotte and does that? And so there are some scenarios now that just because of the way things played out, we’ll we’ll get a sense of what these players are capable of or not. Um and you know, from that sense, it’s intriguing. Yeah. And of course, I think the way Jaylen approaches some of his frustrations sometimes leaves things vague and leaves people to interpret them. And you know, when I do read some of these quotes, like I do wonder what he disagrees with the sacrifice thing. I’ve always said, “Yeah, he’s probably sacrificing as being the face of a team to make it work here in Boston.” I think that’s a lot of what he’s talking about here to me, just reading it is the perception, how he’s viewed, how he’s looked at. Maybe he doesn’t feel like he’s discussed or I mean, he’s certainly paid like one of the stars of the league. So, I mean, he’s gained more recognition, I feel like. I mean, like you said, Gary, he’s the finals MVP, the East Finals MVP, supermax player. I think Jaylen’s gained a lot of not only respect in those circles nationally and with the contract and the recognition there, but also the local agilation too. And listen, you know, I tweeted out the story this morning know and you’re going to get the backlash from people who I think a lot of it is fans of Tatum. Like that’s a new thing, Gary, is like there are aren’t necessarily just Celtics fans who follow this team. It’s Tatum fans who just root for Tatum and like it’s a Tatum against Brown. Yes, like you can like both. They play the same team. Like you can How did that start? Like I I wasn’t online for those days. I just joined Twitter when I started this job. So I didn’t I don’t know how this stuff was. But like why did it start at this point where the two franchise stars are always like at odds with one another. Like why couldn’t it like I don’t I don’t really see that in most teams. Like like where what’s the origin of this? I I never understood it. I think I think honestly Noah people Okay. like not everybody is the thunder where they all these young guys seemingly hang out and they do commercials together and they’re like all, you know, play video games together. Jaylen and Jason are they’re they have a high amount of respect for each other. They’re very good friends, but they’re different guys. Jason’s a dad. Jaylen travels the world and goes to Saudi Arabia and Dubai and like they’re just different guys. And so that doesn’t mean they they don’t have to be best friends. Like Bird and Male were not best friends. Like like they can be great teammates. They could be have a high amount of respect for each other. Like um the you guys were there for the Jaylen the 741 premiere. The night of the uh Celtic City premiere. Jason showed up to Jaylen Shoe premiere. Like that support. Like they’re good. They’re good. Like people have asked me this. the number one question I get asked like are they like no but I just think that there’s there’s like Tatum fans who think that Tatum should get all the shots that Jaylen gets and there’s like this like discourse of of not a large amount of fans Noah but some who are like yeah like Tatum would be better if Jaylen wasn’t there uh Jaylen Jaylen did this and it ta Tatum should have won it finals MVP uh it was Jaylen’s like like guys their teammates like do you want like do the do the Celtic fans fans want this crew want the Celtics to win or they want Tatum to get MVP and then and then the Celtics to win 48 games. Like I don’t understand it. Yeah. I wonder how different it would be if they were like publicly like this best friend duo the way that there are some of those in the NBA. Like would that have quelled a lot of the a lot of the discourse? I don’t know. But it is funny like I people people like impose this friendship like I think it’s just in a narrative or something. But it it is it’s so bizarre because having like before I started covering the team I was like I wonder if there’s something there and then the more you’re around it the more you realize that like there’s just not much of a story there and it just becomes one I think for the fans. Someone just blamed someone just blamed Joe Sway for it. He did say back in the day they had a they had to have a difficult conversation try and make it work. I just I think it’s I think it’s stereo I think it’s stereotypical of like people putting millennials like all millennials should all be hanging out and doing all the same things and listening to Drake and playing video games and posting on Snapchat like the all 28 29 year olds and back then when they were 24 and 25 they’re not all the same they’re different and I just think as I think as as you guys have gotten to know the team over the last few years like Jason and Jaylen are very different guys. Like they’re just different how they talk to you. How they’re good guys. They’re both good guys. Um they’re different and that’s okay. They’re, you know, just because they’re the same age and they’re both in the NBA and they’re both black does not mean they’re supposed to be alike. And I just think that there’s so much stereotypes with that age of misunderstanding of players who are that age that like one they they can be different. They’re not all I think the with the social media and a lot of the you know a lot of these a lot of us lazy media members tend and even fans tend to put the the 20somes all in one box and go well don’t you like that like you know not all not all like the whole I think we’ve learned from the whole Kendrick Drake against uh Kendrick Lamar against Drake thing like not all everybody loves Drake and that’s what we thought not all everybody loves not all 20omes love the same things and I just think that’s okay with Jason and Jaylen like they’re different but they have a high amount like and I’m telling talking the truth they have a high amount of respect for each other like that’s the they they root for each other and they know how important each other is to their success and I think that’s what kind of captivated in the finals like would Jason have loved to win the finals MVP of course but I don’t think he was like man I got screwed man I’m you know like I I I I feel like he he wanted to be a champion. That was number one. And I think the sacrifices he made and the sacrifices Jaylen made got them a championship. Yeah. You know, I know he’s going to be best friends with the people you work with, which is true across the board. Except me and Noah. We’re we’re tight. So, Gary, Bobby, are you Bobby, are you referring to somebody? Like, is there is that is that a subliminal message you’re sending to somebody at CLNS? like what’s going on here? I was just checking in. I was just checking in, seeing how everyone’s feeling. Um, yeah. So, the last thing I want to ask you guys about here is the last note. He’s excited to lead the team this year. And again, Noah said it earlier, this is the most intriguing um, storyline going into this year by far to me. And I love that he’s excited for it. I love even with some of the backlash I read Noah and I’m sure you’ve heard this is a bold like him him being excited about this I think is a is a bold you know take on this year because it’s going to be difficult. Let me let me say something there. This is my number one qualm with the way quotes get like assessed by the media and by fans. Every single NBA player should think that they have the ability to lead a team. Should be unreasonably confident in themselves. should think that they’re the greatest thing in the world and they’re they’re the next, you know, best scoreer in the NBA. Like Peyton Pritchard thinks that he’s a a superstar, right? Like that’s that’s what makes them great. And so, of course, Jaylen Brown, who was the finals MVP and has a four-time all-star and all these things. Of course, he thinks he can take the reigns of this team and do the very best that he can. And I’m sure there’s going to be some low moments. And I’m sure there are going to be some moments where it looks great. But every time I see like outrage when a player says like, “I’m ready to show the world what I can do. Like, I’m gonna take take a leap.” All of that. Like, I’m always like, “What do you think makes these guys great?” Like, “How do you think these guys got to this point? How do they become lottery picks and all stars?” Like, that’s what separates a lot of great athletes that could have been in those shoes and the guys that aren’t. and like so so to me it’s like I we should we should collectively stop freaking out when we see players say these things because that’s that’s the way that it works. That’s why they are the way they are. Here here’s my take on it because I don’t begrudge him for feeling confident in this. And again, you should if you’re going to be up for this position here and wanting to have that role, you have to believe you can do it. So I don’t have any issue with that. I’m just intrigued because building up expectations for this year when we know it’s going to be challenging, when we know it’s going to be a different roster, and Pritchard’s done it too, right? Like he at his exit interview was like, “We can still be great. We can still win. We can still do all of that.” So, I think you’re going to hear that from a lot of different guys going into the season. For Jaylen, I’m just intrigued, Gary, because this is a new territory for him. He’s done it for a game. He’s done it for a week or two here or there and he’s done great in those situations. And if you look at the most recent example, game five, game five rather specifically after the um Tatum injury, maybe the best game of his career. And then game six, one of the worst games of his career. So to me, this season, the expectations are going to be on him, fair or not. Um and I love that he’s embracing it. I love that he’s building up those expectations. you know, when he talks about want to be in this position, but and this is what I’m interested to see this year. I know it the scrutiny is going to be on him big time. And I think the first couple weeks of this season, especially coming off an injury and all that, there might be some struggles. There might be some ups and downs with him acclimating to that role. Like I think too, Gary, the defensive pressure he’s going to face without Tatum out there is going to be unlike anything he’s seen in his career because Tatum’s been there the whole way. So, by the end of the year, can he be in that NBA conversation? Can he put this team in a playoff position? I think so. But it’s going to be a challenge and there’s going to be some highs and lows this year. And I’m so intrigued to see how he’s going to handle it because there’s going to be criticism that comes with it, too. When he has a bad game, we know some segments of the fan base are going to be all over him. Yeah. I think it’s a lot of this is on Jaylen. Mike and what I mean by that is the maturity of his of of how he has become as a player. I think three or four years ago Jaylen was not a great onc court uh decision maker. He was uh careless with the ball and he still has his his moments where he’s careless with the ball. But I think if he works on his ball handling and works and continues to improve his decision making, like, okay, I know I’m Jaylen and I got major ups and I’m strong as hell, but I’m not going to take go one on three and try to dunk on three guys like on a fast break. I’m going to slow it down. I’m going to wait for Derek. I’m going to hit Derek pulling up for the three. Boom. Okay, we got three points there. Like the decision making, can he be a floor leader? Can he? because obviously we saw that in game five and as you pointed out Bobby in game six it was a struggle. He tried to do too much and you know you saw teams uh with starting in the playoffs with Orlando like just start to just literally strip the ball from him. Like that was a thing. Let them pass you and then just whack it, right? You’re not going to probably get a uh a foul call. If you do, oh well. Like so there’s going to be scouting reports and and and there has been about his ball handling. Will Jaylen come to camp improved? He’s improved over the years. Um, but can he be that? Can he take his game from a minus to a to can he be a top 15 player? And that doesn’t mean dropping 30 a game. That means maybe 23, eight assists, a rebounds. Can he be that guy? Because Derek’s gonna blossom, too. I think big year for Derek. Derek is a guy who I think can score more more points himself. Payton’s gonna score more. Like everybody’s gonna get to eat here. And Jaylen is going to have to be more of a floor leader. And then he’s going to have and then this team needs to also find an enforcer. Like that’s the one thing they lost with Marcus who’s Marcus would Marcus would get in somebody’s face. This team has no enforcers, right? Al’s kind of won. Drew Jaylen will actually do it more than anyone else on the roster. But but can you be the number one option and you’re enforcer? Can you get in somebody’s face? But like I needed like Jaylen, you know, Jaylen needs to play like listen, we’re the Celtics. Y’all ain’t gonna take us lightly. I know we missing the best player, but you know what? Every night we gonna give y’all hell. like every opponent play as hard as you I mean you know like Orlando’s a flawed team but Orlando we saw in that playoff series constantly played hard like that’s how you have to look at it these teams that just make you and I think the Missoula mentality feeds right into that because they’re not going to be a pretty team the the prettiness is gone with this team Jason’s a pretty player Chris has a pretty player Drew has pretty part you know but the they need to play like some grinders and maybe Jaylen can lead that charge. Yeah. And I’m interested to see how they find some defensive power, too. That’s going to be a part of his role, too, knowing now, cuz think of the role Tatum played defensively for this team. Everyone’s going to think about the offense that they’re missing from him, but he played a critical defensive role in Horford and Holiday and all these guys going out the door that filled those roles. The last thing I want to ask, you know, because you said it earlier, you’re not expecting his shot totals to go up necessarily here, even though he’s going to be taking on that number one role. I totally agree that’s the best way for him to go because there’s still guys here who can set the table offensively. You can lean on White to help you out. You can lean on Pritchard to set the table offensively and then you don’t have to be absorbing double teams and all the traps that these teams are going to throw at him and all of that. So, when you’re looking at how he’s going to approach this year, what are you expecting from him in terms of how he’s going to approach the game as that number one option? Yeah, I think you’re probably see them shoot a little bit more. Inevitably, I think all those guys are going to up their up their averages just because the shots have to come from somewhere, right? Um, but you like thinking about game five and the way that he was kind of playing a little bit slower, a little bit more of a playmaker, a little bit more of an all-around game and not so much like an urgency that he has to capitalize on the opportunities that he has because he knows that there’s a lot of shots to go around and that sort of thing. Like, I think everybody’s going to feel a little bit a little bit less anxiety there. And honestly, like Tatum’s not, you know, Tatum is not going to be on the floor regardless. So some of those guys that I think intend to try to get call their own number and get going, like there’s not that many of them left. So I don’t think you’re going to see Jaylen do that as much. Like a lot of people I’ve seen, and maybe maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve seen a lot of people say like, “Oh, Jaylen Brown like number one basket hoops option. Like it’s going to be he’s going to be dribbling off his foot.” Like I think you’re actually going to see it a little bit in the other direction because he’s not going to feel the need to force the issue as much because he knows at the end of the day like if they’re down by one with 10 seconds to go like he’s probably going to get the game winner. Like those are the little things that he just hasn’t had those opportunities much in his career like being the closer on the roster. Like he’s had a few like almost accidental gamewinners, but for the most part like that’s been Tatum. So those that’s where I think you’re going to see more of a difference. Like he’ll have some of those classic opportunities. he’s going to be the last name that’s called in the starting lineup introductions. Like little things like that, but I don’t think his game is going to be drastically different. Um, efficiency wise, I think you’re going to see a lot of people’s efficiency go down because you no longer have that that floor spacing that you had over these past couple years. Um, but otherwise, I I expect him to put up like pretty similar, if not better numbers, uh, just because he’s going to have, you know, more opportunities and and longer stretches and kind of have to be the guy that they lead on at times. But I I don’t think he’s going to force the issue the way that a lot of people are projecting right now. Feel the same, Gary? Yeah, I feel like he’ll have I mean, remember like Jaylen is about to be 29. Like he’s a grown man in this league. He’s uh you mean 10th year, right? Like uh 2016. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Uh makes me feel old. Um so yeah, 10 year 10. This is year 10 for him. So, uh, just maturing his his his onf floor game is to me very important. And I don’t think he’ll he’ll just try to chuck up shots and be try to be that guy and be like, well, you know, I want to make the All-Star team. I think he’ll be play within the team concept, but I also think he’ll try to unleash some new things in his game. And I I know he’ll be in the lab. I know he’s in the lab right now where we got um two and a half months maybe before camp starts. So, he’s got some time to work. Hopefully, the knee is healing. Uh, you know, the post surgery is fine. He can start doing some real athletic stuff. And I’m sure the Celtics will take their time with him and make sure he’s 100% by opening tip whenever October 22nd or 23rd or whatever. But, um, to me, I think he’ll play within the team concept and he’ll understand and he’ll be a better off off the floor leader, too. Because remember, no Al, no Drew, no Jason. Three leaders gone. Chris Daps was a, you know, a leader in his own way, but Al was the the major, you know, voice of reason and the guy that you looked at and he was reading the paper and he was with his family. You’re like, “Okay, young guys come in and go, okay, when I’m that age, that’s reading the paper.” Yeah. he’d be reading the paper and read, you know, and then you you would see Al and you just like, you know, with his son there, Ian, and then you just kind of look, I’m sure some of the young guys said, you know, I’m not there yet, but that’s how I want to be when like one, I get want to get to that place where I’m his age in the league. and two that I want to be where I can bring my little son or daughter into the locker room and, you know, basically be around them like Jason does with Deuce, you know, like I think some of the younger players, you know, they’re not all about not all of them about just that life, right? Some of them understand that that they’re not going to be young forever. So, I think that Jaylen will be a needs to be a better leader. I think he will be on the floor and off the floor. So, I have full confidence in him. Um just my only fear is him trying to do too much ball hand like you know don’t try to show your weak like your weaknesses or your strengths like just play within the game and you’ll be fine. Yeah. So you can go read this story over on Celtics blog right now celticsblog.com Jaylen’s latest comments looking ahead to the year and about the MIT bridge program uh that he just conducted for another year here and he’s done a bunch of those in a row every year for uh youth in Boston. So you can go check that out as well. We have an interview coming with Ugo Gonzalez. We didn’t see him tonight, but no and I talked to him on the first day out here. A little bit in Spanish, Gary. We we tested it out. Gary, you would not have been happy if you had seen it in live time. It was really It was a tough watch. It’s going to be a tough watch for those at home. I’m going to just disclaim. But I will say it’s nice to be able to get a guy talking in his native language. I I think he appreciated it. So yeah, we tried our best as he’s doing in English with us. So his best is a lot better than our best. That all said. Absolutely. There’s I can just imagine I could me I’m Obby like I could just imagine him looking at you like really like you know I could like I’m looking forward that’ll be musty TV. The first day I met him he said it was pretty good and then I guess once the pressure turned up in an interview environment I just went like this. Um, so Noah got the win for that day in terms of his skill, her skills. So, um, yeah, that’ll be coming out on the YouTube channel. I’m sure everyone’s anticipating that. Um, we got a bunch of podcasts coming out to start this week out here. And then, of course, we’ll have a postgame show tomorrow because the Celtics are playing again the Heat at 5:00 out here, I believe 8:00 Eastern. So, later game, Celtics Heat. Um, getting started. Third out of four summer league games. There’ll be a fifth one as well later this week out here. Noah’s here the whole way. You got you’re here for about a week, Gary, right? Yes, sir. Yep. Yep. I’ll be I’ll uh be there through the Lakers game. Yep. So, you can check out his coverage, of course, in the Boston Globe as well as on the Big Three podcast he does with Sherrod and Quani Luna. So, check all that out over on CNS Media, Celtics All Access. Subscribe to those channels. Turn on the notifications. It’s getting later in the offseason, but we’ll still go live if anything happens on the Lillard front or some additional moves that could happen down the line here late this summer. So, all that and more is available over on all the channels. Check that out and of course, check out our great sponsor prize picks. Use the code CNS and when you play a $5 lineup, you will get a $50 bonus over there. But that’s it for us here today. Celtics move to 2-0 in summer league, beat the Knicks, and Celtics Heat on deck for tomorrow. So, we’ll have another show tomorrow night. Talk to you then. Thanks to Gary for stopping by. Thanks to Noah Dazelle. I’m Bobby Manning. We’ll talk to you tomorrow. Sorry, Gary, for not getting your bucket hat for this one. We’ll get you next time. No one’s sneaking a vegan brownie by me. I’ll tell you that. Okay. You know what, John? We’re going to do it. You have to feel that way, too, Bobby. I have to feel that way. Slide out over and and make Luke your first center. Bobby, we gave you Luke hour earlier. We are not going to end this on a damn conversation about Luke. [Music]

The Garden Report crew of Noa Dalzell and Bobby Manning are joined by special guest Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe and co-host of The Big 3 NBA Podcast on CLNS Media to break down the Celtics’ Summer League matchup vs. the New York Knicks LIVE from Las Vegas. The trio react to Boston’s second Summer League game, share thoughts on standout performances and player development, and dive into larger Celtics offseason storylines including Damian Lillard rumors, Jayson Tatum’s recruitment efforts, and Jaylen Brown’s evolving role on and off the court.

⏰ EPISODE TIMELINE ⏰
0:00 – Summer League Reaction
21:03 – Youth development
23:50 – Gary on Damian Lillard
33:12 – Tatum’s recruitment efforts
36:01 – Jaylen Brown in the Boston community
40:32 – Noa’s convo with Jaylen and more
59:59 – Expectations for Jaylen
1:05:06 – Jaylen’s game evolution

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