The Race for the 15th Spot: Analyzing the Bucks’ Roster Decisions and Dame’s Lesson for Giannis

The Race for the 15th Spot: Analyzing the Bucks’ Roster Decisions and Dame’s Lesson for Giannis

The race for the 15th man on the Bucks roster. Is there one name we’re excluding? And we put an end to the summer league discussion coming up on today’s Locked on Bucks. You are Locked on Bucks, your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. Welcome into Locked On Bucks. I’m Justin Garcia joined as always by Camille Davis and longtime host of the podcast Frank Madden. We thank you for making this your first listen of the day each and every day. Today’s episode of Locked on Bucks is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. Um, I want to get to what we started with at the top of the 15th man on the roster because it started with an interesting conversation the three of us had offline. But, uh, we should start here, Frank. Everyone dying to know your thoughts on summer league. You put it out there in gift form on Twitter as well, but um, what exactly would you say you saw at summer league? Well, let’s start with the positive. Love me some Larry Nance or Pete Nance. Sorry. I always I always did like Larry Nance, too. But, uh, I I enjoyed Pete Nance, you know, the dribble handoff game. Um, I came away that set shot. Um, you know, I I I think he did he play against the Bucks when he had that cup of coffee with the Sixers? I think I feel like I feel like we saw him against the Bucks and I don’t think he was like particularly good in that game, but I remember being like like this guy seems like a plausible NBA player, which you know is not a bad that’s kind of a compliment if you’re you’re on a two-way. Um and then obviously he had a nice opportunity there in that final game of the season, the Pat Coneton game. um you know played well and kind of looked the part of a guy that like you could go out there and you know eat innings in in a scenario like that. Um and I I thought you know he was him and obviously Chris Livingston I think obviously were like kind of the two kind of best players most consistent guys in Vegas and so you know I I was definitely happy with what I saw from Nans. I think he averaged like 2.3 blocks per game as well, which is not something that, you know, is on the scouting report that he’s like, you know, going to be like a viable big rim protector. Um, so I think it was generally just I think just a very positive, you know, showing from him. Um, and you know, like if you’re in a spot, I think certainly the four or five positions are a point of strength obviously when the Bucks are healthy, but you know, if there’s a situation where, you know, Giannis is sitting out or, you know, one of Bobby and Miles are injured or something like that, um, and you need a guy to to kind of step in and fill in, give you some minutes. Um, I thought like what we saw from Nance like would make me feel like okay, like, you know, depending on matching like that, like he could actually hang in there. Again, like defensively, I think you worry he’s not quite have the physicality, you know, against certain like kind of bigger lineups and things like that. But, um, but I thought he equated himself well and it was like, okay, yeah, like that’s a good type of guy to have as a as a two-way, you know, kind of a a reserve depth depth type guy. So, like what I saw from him. Um, and then you know, Chris Livingston, I I don’t know. I don’t know that like I saw different like him do different good things this year than I saw him do good things last year. Maybe he was a little bit more aggressive with his three-point shot. Um, but you know, like I think his physicality plays well in summer league. Uh, you know, like kind of kind of like kind of that bully ball style. Can that work, you know, at an in the NBA? Um, he was probably asked to do more than, you know, ideally you’d want just because they had no point guards after like the first game and a half when, you know, Mark Sears is out the entire time and then Jamari Buouier gets injured with the the hamstring injury or wherever it was. And so, you know, Maris Noel is playing and, you know, was was not ideal, right, in summer league to be down your top two point guards given how guard centric summer league tends to be. So he was probably having to do more handling and you know I think we saw his limitations as a as like a passer and and handler to an extent. Um but you know he he played to his strengths and um I think certainly in a in a environment where you don’t have as much size as as in regular you know NBA basketball um you know he did kind of what you would hope he would do. Um, and obviously getting the guaranteed contract was um, obviously, you know, I don’t know that it was I don’t know. I I don’t know if I believe that the idea that he like won his contract back with the way he played in Vegas. Um, obviously part of waving him was kind of cap finagling in order to free up a little bit of a smidge more of of cap space, but not really a whole lot. Um, so we’ll see. But, um, you know, kudos to him. Kind of he did what, you know, he he should have done as a third-year guy. And if I’m going kind of, you know, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Like that probably that’s probably the more or less the end of the conversation. Um, let me let me pause there. I don’t know if you guys had anything else to say. Anything else you else you guys felt good really good about? Because those were the two guys I felt good about. Those were the two guys for sure. If I be nice to say something nice too. I’ll say this. Um Tyler Smith was somebody coming into summer league. I was really interested in seeing what he looked like after a year of work and offseason so on and so forth. And that’s all you have to say. You were very interested. No, because he shot terribly throughout the first four games. But what encouraged me I would say about his playing summer league was at least in the fifth game, one he did not shy away from taking the shots. And some of that might have been out of necessity because of who was not playing. There was no Chris Livingston that by that point in addition to the point guards who were missing, but he kept shooting the shots and he had a lot more success of seeing the ball go into the hoop for him in the fifth game. I did a spot with Euro spot or Euroep and uh with Tai and I was telling him like Smitty has to keep shooting. It has not been pretty but you got to keep shooting because that’s the one skill set for him that projected, you know, coming out of G-League and whatnot. So if we’re selling good news, good things, I was happy to see in the last game of summer league after a terrible shooting display for the four first four games for him that he kept shooting and he had a bit more success in that last game that they played. I was happy uh Chris Livingston didn’t get injured. There you go. That’s the only other thing I have to say about Summer League. Yeah. And I I think other than that um you know like with Ajax I I am obviously like probably on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of my Ajax optimism. It seems like the world is following me in that trend a bit. Um but I also don’t really judge it. What do you think? I think I think people have come around to my view. I don’t think people like I remember I don’t know about that. You think I’ve had Okay. I think there’s still a lot of Ajax. There’s still some believers. There’s some people who got some mistake on Ajax Island. Yeah. I just remember a couple years ago um like some conversation about it was like when this was when Caruso was still on the Bulls and there was like you know idol chatter of like oh wouldn’t it be great if the Bucks could add Alex Caruso and some like concept of like you know a second rounder and Ajax and whatever filler for for Caruso came up and I was just like yeah obviously like you know and somebody was somebody was like you can’t trade Ajax like you finally have a good young player now you’re trying to trade him it’s just The absolute best case scenario for Ajax is he maybe becomes somebody like Alex Caruso. So like I will take that like guaranteed player who is that over the like maybe could a would a world the the guy becomes that version. Um, and yeah, I mean obviously like I think just as the season wore on, I mean my my my take on Ajax is everybody see everybody likes to play the like, oh, I can’t believe he kept playing, you know, Torian Prince and Koozma over Ajax. I can’t believe that Doc stuck with Ajax over AJ Green and Gary Trent. That is my moral high ground. That is I that is how I hyro the hell out of people that try to make me feel bad for saying that that Andre Jackson Jr. played too much last year. The data was bad on him all year. Um, and honestly, I again, my my take as well is I I have always felt like Doc also did him a disservice because like just put a target on his back when he was in the starting five. I just feel like you could have kind of hidden some of his limitations more bringing him off the bench. But, um, but we’ll see. I will say this. I mean, it would suck if they if they wave him. It would suck because it feels like there’s an NBA player, I think, in there. Um, and you know, we all like to think that the imperfect young players on our teams should just be like, you should just be able to like, oh, just trade him for a second round pick. I mean, my guess is if that could have been done, that would have happened, you know. Um maybe there might have been at some point, you know, over the last year or two when that could have been possible, but my guess is now if the Bucks um do need to open up a roster spot, like, you know, they wouldn’t be able to get something like that for for him. Could you get like a player potentially making a little more money with more guaranteed dollars, you know? Yeah, I think you could probably find like a random guy if you want to take a bet on somebody else’s young player that maybe hasn’t panned out so far and they’re just, you know, somebody else is trying to cut loose like a late first round pick or something like that. You know, kind of trade your problem for my problem type thing. Patrick Williams for age hacks. Hey, under under that luxury tax line, I don’t I don’t think it I don’t think it would work from cat perspective, but you know, you may be able to squeeze it in under the f under the uh under the tax still. The Bucks have that much space left. Um, so yeah, I with Ajax I, you know, I don’t know. I think the the reality is like the deck is stacked against him seeing minutes when you look at just the roster right now. Um, but I think that’s sort of the problem for when we look at any of the guys that are, you know, the the three roster guys that were in Vegas, like is Chris Livingston going to play this year? Like I don’t see it, you know. Is is Ajax gonna play? At least it’s plausible to me that there might be a scenario where Doc, you know, given the history, like if they feel like, you know, they need some of that defensive injection. Um, you know, maybe there is a scenario if you think you can play him at the three or something like that. Um, and then obviously like with Tyler Smith, I mean, you kind of I think there’s been times at his best where it’s like you see the shot and he’s had, I think, some kind of garbage man instincts that I think can be useful. Um, but you know this time around like it was just like what do you do? You know, it was it was that kind of feeling. And I mean people got so excited seeing like you know 30 second clips of him in a gym with some trainers and it’s like okay he can come off a screen you know when some middle-aged white guy like me is like out there like faking a a handoff or something. But I mean that we’ve never seen him do any like small forward stuff in a game, any like creation off ball stuff, you know, that’s just not not who not we’ve not something we’ve seen. And you know, I I went back and looked at his G-League stats. He was obviously an Ignite. He was he was a very young guy on the G-League Ignite the year before he was drafted and put up pretty good numbers. And then I was looking at like what he did with the herd last year and it’s like not as good. he like regressed with the herd last year. And I mean, he’s still really young, but it’s just like I was I was just kind of like thinking, wait, I’m not even really a big Ajax supporter, but like and would I really I I mean, the Bucks can eat salary. Would I really want to wave Ajax for financial reasons and keep Tyler Smith? Like, what am what does that get me? Um I don’t know. Like, like I’ll pose it to you guys. like consider the the cap stuff. I don’t know that it matters a whole lot, but you know, Ajax, you don’t lose a lot of money if you wave him given he’s, you know, now only partially guaranteed, but like if you had to choose like of those three guys, who you would most want to keep in order, obviously Chris or Justin will choose Chris Livingston first, but um but like how would how would how would you rank those guys? Because I might say Ajax Livingston Smith. Um, I don’t know. I And again, these guys are young. Like, in three years, they could refigure something out in some second or third iteration of what they are, but you know, in the here and now, like as far as what’s going to happen with the Bucks, it’s just I don’t know. Like, I I tell me what my options are. If there’s a free agent available that is like a playable NBA player, I’d probably take any of that guy over any of these guys. It’s uh it’s an interesting question. We will get to our answers coming up after the break here. This next segment of Lockdown Bucks is brought to you by FanDuel. Summer sports are in full swing. And whether you’re all about baseball under the lights, golf on the green, or high stakes soccer action, FanDuel is the best way to make every game more exciting. You’re already following the action, so why not make it a little more thrilling? With FanDuel, you can get in on the game while your friends are getting sunburned at the beach. It’s easy to use, your payouts are fast, and it makes even regular season games feel like mustwatch events. And whether you’re placing a same game parlay or watching a bet ride into the ninth inning, FanDuel makes it feel like you’re part of the action. New to FanDuel, new customers can bet just $5 and get $150 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. Open the FanDuel app today or visit fanuel.com to get started. Um, Camille, I’ll let you go first with your order. I mean, I think we know who’s number one for me, but also the the Tyler Smith mixtape. It was funny when you uh saw the highlights and you just kind of peeled away at the sticker on front of the tape. You you peeled it off and saw Oh, wait. This is just the Ben Simmons tape from three years ago. Not the Ben Simmons lab. No, we ain’t going to do that to Smitty here. No, no, we can’t. We can’t Ben Simmons. But no, I think it’s an interesting question to think about, right? Because when you think about how these players should fit ideally and like what is it about their skill set that made the Bucks interested in the first place? How do they fit? you look at a Tyler Smith and it’s the shooting touch. It’s being 69, 610, being able to have that elite skill set of shooting the ball well. Now, like I mentioned, we haven’t quite seen that come to pass consistently in summer league here. Um, the numbers probably weren’t where you would hope that they would have been during his time with the herd, but again, a very young player. And it’s something I think about too when having conversations around like draft and the NBA draft and things of like that where it’s like the player that you’re taking today ultimately is probably not going to be the same guy in a few more years. Like however it progresses, whether that’s for the good or for the bad, there’s going to be room to grow in their game. And Tyler Smith always kind of like a stretch fourish kind of build, but maybe a three kind of tweenerish in that way. um not someone who I saw moving up as like a center. So like there there’s there the shooting aspect is there for him but then again you have you know Ajax you have Chris Livingston and with Ajax it’s more so a focus on like he can be that ideal wing defender maybe he can be a 3 and D wing for you. You’ve seen him on ball have big moments like NBA Cup game where he’s doing a great job defensively on the soontobe MVP of the league with SGA in that game and you have the moments where you see it with Ajax of like he comes in the game and the energy changes because of the way he plays and that can be appealing. Chris Livingston on the other hand is somebody who we haven’t quite seen and there have been questions about what position does he even play. Like last year in summer league, we saw the Bucks rolling him out as the five in certain lineups. And this year he was a three again, but you’ve seen him be the four. Like he’s a tweener, a tweener’s tweener at this point. Um, but to see the progress that Chris Lemonstein made, and I’ll say it like this because yeah, the strength was there. I believe last year in summer league he averaged like 14 15 points. This year was up to 20. And it was the way he got to the points that made me kind of go like, “Okay, there’s a little something else here for Chris, the shot selection, getting the threes up at the volume that he did.” Um, it was just something about his game where it’s like, I’m still not exactly sure what position you are, but like I can see the athleticism. I can see you can do some things that could be helpful as a role player. So ultimately, I think if I had to rank those three with all that being said, at this point I think I would probably go I think I would probably still go Andre Jackson Jr., Chris Livingston, Tyler Smith. Um, but I do think that this upcoming season poses a chance for Tyler Smith to maybe be a back end of the rotation type of guy for the Bucks if he can continue to, you know, elevate his game. I I do think that three spot for the Bucks is an interesting one. Like Kuz is an assumption, but you heard horse mention he’s more of a four. He thinks you have Torian Prince. We saw how that went in the playoffs last year. You’ve been hearing them go about how the young guys and how you want to play with pace and get the younger guys and it’s like Chris Livingston kind of fits those boxes, but I just haven’t seen it in practice for me to put him above Ajax yet. I think um like we talked about on the show a couple of days ago, Camille, I took Horse’s response as I think was going to play a lot at the three and Hor is saying this, but he’s actually a four. So, we got to try to find as many minutes there as we can. I mean, it it’s no secret I’d put my boy Chris at number one on that list. It’s tricky with the other two. And when you first brought it up, Frank, at first I was like, really? But then the more you think about it, um I don’t know what the path to playing time is for Tyler Smith with how they’ve reshaped the ro. Like not that it was a strong possibility, but I you could have somewhat talked yourself into maybe he could get like 10 minutes a night with Brooke on and if you lean into Giannis Bobby and maybe there’s something else outside of Jericho Sims. But the fact that you’ve got a 29year-old center now that fits alongside Giannis. You still got Bobby Portoris in the mix. You’re going to have to try to find minutes to keep uh developing Jericho Sims. I I don’t know where he sees any minutes for for Tyler Smith here, unless he um does the exact opposite of what we saw in the G-League a year ago and just becomes this year’s version of Christian Wood where then it starts to become like, hey, do we got to find some time for him? Otherwise, I just don’t see where it’s going to come from. And we know Doc trusts Andre Jackson Jr.’s defense. Uh, I don’t know how much of this is a true belief, but how much we’ve heard them talk and doc specifically about Ajax this summer and his defense and how elite it is and then the big but he still has to develop on the other end. I don’t know how much of that is like we’re positioning him in case there’s some value here versus we truly believe this. But seeing him play last year, I I I just I don’t see any scenario where Tyler Smith gets half as many of the opportunities this year as Andre Jackson Jr. got a year ago. So, for that sense, I’ I’d have to put him last on that list. I think that my general like philosophy too is like with guys in positions um like especially in recent years uh although it’s not this isn’t really that new but I I never like to take guys and play them down a position like I can’t pick I I don’t know that I’ve ever seen Tyler Smith make a move with the ball like dribble the ball and make a pass. Yeah. And so like for me that basically like disqualifies him from basically ever playing the three. And like and this is honestly like the hard I think this is the same problem that Chris Livingston has in the sense that you know like I look I think Torian Prince is a really interesting guy to have on this roster at the same time as as Chris Livingston. I think they’re pretty similar pretty similarly sized guys. Um Torian Prince led the league in catch and shoot three-point percentage last year. Now, I’m sure you know Justin and other Livingston truthers will like point out that you know there’s other things there dozens of you. Um I’m sure people could say like well hey Chris does other stuff that Torian Prince doesn’t you know like motor and and something I mean we’ve never seen that obviously at like a real NBA level. Um, but like if I was Chris Livingston, I would look at Torian Prince just say like I gotta like just sit in a corner and just figure out like how do I become like a catch and shoot three-point guy who then can like defend credibly enough, be switchable enough, and you know, like don’t screw up otherwise on offense. Um, but I think one of the reasons why Torian Prince why people, you know, why when you look at like lineup data and other stuff like Torian Prince lineups like didn’t work like the Bucks were not good when he was on the floor last year for whatever reason. And I think a lot of that reason is because he doesn’t have that sort of connector type ability because if you play a lot with Giannis and you shoot the out of the ball, that should work, right? Um, and it’s not like he’s we we can argue that he’s not like a great defender of ones and twos, which was not fair that he was put in that position, you know, for stretches last year, obviously, especially in the second half. Um, but it’s not like, you know, he’s a horrendous defender who like, you know, teams are going to attack um and try to put into switches all the time, things like that, like, you know, whatever. So, um, so I think it’s it’s tough when you’re a guy who it doesn’t have like that ideal like four or five size and you don’t do those other things because again dribble, pass, shoot, right? Like if you if you can only do one like Tyler Smith in theory can do one of those things and he’s relatively tall but like defensively that’s always he’s always had question marks. Chris Livingston can do a little bit more dribbling, but you know, again, it’s just very hard to go from being competent enough and showing stuff in summer league to like, okay, you’re going to like make the the right decision and, you know, be able to be in that crucible of like actual NBA rotation minutes. So, it’s just really tough. And I think honestly that’s what with Ajax, I think that’s to me the biggest disappointment with him. the most consistent part of his game offensively in the NBA has been his three-point shooting. Yeah. Like he’s been a totally respectable three-point shooter. He made some some three-point he made three-point shots in Vegas again this year. And you know, there are going to be people that say like, “Oh, look, three-point shot coming along.” It’s like his three-point shot was like, what was he like 38 39% the last two years? 37. Um, and it but it’s just his decision making like his decision making his decision- making with the ball. I just was shocked as a guy who who was who was like, “Oh, he was the point guard for that national championship punch game at times and, you know, he’s like got this basketball queue and the playmaking and whatever and then you just like watch the decision making and it’s just like, you know, like like just some of the plays last year where it was just like, you know, he makes a steal and then like immediately throws a bad pass that gets picked off for, you know, by bad pass you mean a behind the back pass in traffic, stuff like that.” Exactly. Exactly. And and versus like with Chris Livingston where I think it’s more like it’s hard for him to make like simple passes but he doesn’t try crazy stuff. He’s not like out of going out of pocket with with Ajax it’s hard because I think he know he’s good enough to be dangerous, right? He’s like a good enough passer to like think that he’s like 20% better and and he’s unselfish, right? Which the unselfishness should be a positive, but I think with him it often veers into actually like no dude, like just make the layup, right? um which I think he did make some strides over the course of seasons. Like you could tell he like tried to be more aggressive. There were moments in Vegas too where he went the length of the floor and actually like tried to attack. Um but yeah, it’s tough and and I think like look, you know, is Doc the perfect coach to unlock his limitations? Like probably not. Um, but it’s also like you can’t like construct an offense around hiding your fifth guy that you know could be out of the rotation on any given night. So, it’s just it’s a tough spot for a young guy. And, you know, again, I think it just he’s got a ton of uncertainty, not just, you know, what he’s on this team, but if he even makes it to camp because knockk knockock, the NASA’s coming here. Um, we’ll see. Like, you know, and and as we’ve been seeing, you guys alluded to it. I mean, I don’t know. I will say on all the guards they’ve been connected to, honestly, I think that’s more opportunistic just because like everybody who’s like been good that’s become available just happens to be like a 64 64 guard, which is what they have like in spades already. So, I don’t know that they’re like, oh, they want another guard and not a wing. I don’t really know like what wings like air coffee. I don’t you know like there really haven’t been the volume of like available wings either because I think if there was you probably would have seen them make more of a play for that but I think it just so happens that everybody has kind of been similarly sized whether it was obviously Beal and Smart are very different types of players but you know from just a profile perspective they they have beered towards towards Mark size so yeah it’s it’s I don’t know we’ll see but I agree with you guys I um I think something else is going to happen the rest of the summer um I don’t think it’s a big trade. I think that’s what Horse was sort of alluding to with that. Yeah. Every humanly possible, whatever. Human human possible. Yeah. I I took that as like guys, I tried my best to trade, but there wasn’t there wasn’t any good option. Um and who knows? I mean, maybe, you know, it’s like if the if the Toronto Raptors realize, oh crap, you know, we’re a few million over the tax for a 38 win team and we’ll we can cut, you know, RJ Barrett loose and get under the tax by taking on Kaloosma. Who knows? Maybe you could get a guy like that for, you know, no real assets in addition to that. But I don’t know, you know, I mean, that’s the only kind of thing I could really see between now and like training camp, like something like that where a team just decides like some money. But I think otherwise like what you’re saying, I think probably they’re just like, “All right, you know what? We’re just gonna play Koozma at the three. Hopefully it works and then we’ll figure it out from there.” There’s one other point I want to make on uh Andre Jackson Jr. and then a couple other tidbits that have popped up here in the past couple of days. We’ve seen Damen Lillard now have his introductory press conference back in Portland. The Bucks confirming something we speculated and talked about on a show a couple of days ago as well. So, we’ll get to those things coming up next. You know, the the tricky thing for me, and I was just talking about it um in our comment section with somebody else the other day. I know the numbers say Andre Jackson Jr. is what a 37% three-point shooter. I think like we do have to also apply the caveat that he took like 70 threes last year and it’s still like one per game that he’s attempting. So it’s not as simple as well if he takes four more the that per game then it obviously it’s going to increase and he’s going to knock down that many. Like I I still need to see a larger sample size and I think that’s the bigger challenge is that’s part of the decision- making too where it’s like just catch it and shoot it. just catch it and rip it. Don’t put it on the floor and get into trouble with some of the passes or other decisions like just up the volume from that standpoint. Um, is the way I would view that. Do you guys agree with that? Do you push back on that? I think that’s fair. I mean, the numbers say he averaged basically three per 36 the last two years, 38 and 39%. So, I mean, you’re right, Justin. He does not shoot like with any real volume. Um my eye test says that it’s not like he’s standing there wide open turning down threes, right? Teams, if you play him like Ben Simmons, he’s going to take the three. And I don’t think he really even hesitates that much. And he’ll even take some where he’s not like standing there 10 feet wide open. Like he will take rhythm threes. And I give him credit because I think he relatively quickly kind of realized like coaches want me to shoot it. So, I’m gonna shoot a catch and shoot three when it’s open. So, I give him credit there. Um, but yeah, is he a guy, you know, this I think Justin, you’re getting at like there are guys that shoot 40% from three and there are guys that like actually stretch a defense. Um, you know, like an Isaac Aoro type, right, is a good example of somebody that I think was always in that zone of like, oh, he became like a mid30s three-point shooter and he could hit some corner threes. But is anybody really like is is Aurora bending the defense? No. Like they they they will leave you if they think that somebody else is, you know, they need to rotate over. Just about every player the Bucks have cycled through as role players the past couple of years. We could apply. Don’t give them the Grant the Grant Williams. Like we’re going to make sure like you’re going to have to beat us if that’s the way you’re going to go. Right. But I mean generally the Bucks have signed lots of guys that you know especially at the guard spots that can shoot the hell out of the ball and obviously Andre is a very different type of profile player. So yeah I mean I I think can he get up more threes? I mean part of it is just like a touches thing like he he doesn’t touch the ball that much. Um and I think to me it’s more of you know catching the ball 10 feet from the hoop and being like oh record scratch and then you know turning around and looking for somebody else to pass it to. Um, and you know, and it shows up in the data, right? Like the the offense just ground to a halt when he was in the games and he was I think I think he was the only guy who had a negative rating with when he played with Giannis. Um, everybody else with Giannis had a positive net rating. Giannis, you know, kind of just makes everybody he’s just deodorant basically for lineups. Um, and obviously with with Ajax, it just kind of didn’t didn’t work and they stuck with that starting five and, you know, it was kind of a drag for for a long part of the season. So, um, so I don’t know. I It’s funny as much as I say all that, like I’d rather not give up on on Andre. Like, I would rather just sort of see what you have with him. I mean, he’s still cheap. Um, and he has a skill set that I think is unique. Um, so I would kind of let it ride a little bit because he’s definitely a guy I could see, you know, if you cut him loose, whatever catching on somewhere else and finding a place where maybe it does work, right? and um and he figures something out like you know it’s like he’s not he’s I wouldn’t I don’t know even know who I’d really comp him to but I just think of like Gary Payton um the second you know another former Buck found his way to to Golden State and they really just figured out like how to unlock him and you know he became a much better kind of corner three guy um but you know just a really good fit for him and and they got him turned him into like a you know whatever it was $10 million year player whatever he got from the Blazers So, you know, is that Ajax’s destiny? I don’t know. We’ll see. Um, but yeah, I mean, you you’d much rather find a way to, you know, trade him for something or do something rather than just cut bait after two years and say like, well, ran out of ran out of ideas. Yeah. And the problem with the lineups, too, is the bulk of his minutes played or lineups that he was on the floor with included Giannis. And it’s Ajax is not going to be the best shooter on the floor in those lineups. So, there’s going to be other guys that are benefiting from those open looks. So, I think that reduces the the volume of threes he’s going to take as well. Uh, but yeah, it was it interesting when you brought it up and now I think we’ve all kind of leaned there as well of like, well, I wouldn’t put Ajax last of that group of guys and I don’t know if we would have been saying that a week ago even. Um, he’s just my guy. I just, you know, I just gotta look out just a backdoor a Ajax supporter over here. He just never expected it. Um, yeah. Well, the other only other thing I would say too is his role also becomes different on a team where you don’t have Dame as your elite guard requiring essentially like a designated defender. Um, because I think that was the premise of starting him, right? is like, “Oh, well, that guy can just be a ball hawk and you don’t really need a fifth guy that does much because you’ve got Damon Giannis.” I mean, when your other options are Ryan Rollins and AJ Green and Kevin Border Jr., it’s just like, why do I need a guy who’s like 5% better on defense, but, you know, way gives me way less on offense. So, that that also, I think, in a weird way kind of works against him. Um, we saw Dame introduced in Portland, I think earlier today as we record this. Um, I look, I have no problem with and everybody trying to like pick apart the he’s he clearly wasn’t happy in Milwaukee and look at how happy he is there now. Like, who cares? The guy was going through a lot off the court. He was going through a lot on the court. As we said a lot, you know, I think the bigger thing to take from this is for a handful of players and especially one that’s currently on your team, it doesn’t always work out when you move on. And when that happens, it’s the new guy that usually gets the blame or doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. So, that’s potentially an important lesson there. Um, I get like we Frank, have have we done a show with you since the end of the saga with Dame? So, what what did you make of him going back to Portland? Um, you know, like most people, happy for him. I think kind of similar to what you’re saying, right? Like no ill will to game. It was obviously just a very unal set of circumstances with the injuries and both playoffs being shortcircuited by first the Giannis injury and the Dame injury and then last year obviously everything that kind of Dame went through. So I mean I have no ill will towards Dame. Um I have no ill will towards him not wanting to play in Milwaukee given kind of all the context around it. Um and so you know he hasn’t like badmouththed the franchise or done anything to you know and you know especially with some of the reporting that was happening like oh Giannis wanted Miles there and like all this stuff there were there could have been opportunities right where he could have taken some stuff personal or whatever it is and you know I don’t know I mean I don’t get the sense the Bucks treated him unfairly and I don’t think he’s taking it in a bad way. I think everybody’s just been kind of professional about it and it’s a it’s awesome. I mean like people are like I feel bad for No, this is awesome for him but that the Achilles you can feel bad about it for but the context of him getting waved is great for him. He’s going to make more. He’s gonna make $70 million next year. he can rehab at home and then he gets to go back to, you know, the team that he started with that he’s a legend with. And honestly, he has no pressure to win a championship now, which really simplifies his kind of the remainder of his career. His pressure now up the value of that franchise so we can sell it and get a new Yeah. So, uh, so yeah, it’s fine. And you know, um, I was selfishly as a Bucks fan, I was happy he didn’t go to Miami or Boston or something and ever be in a spot where he could hurt the Bucks directly. So, go back to the West Coast, be with your family. We already lose to the Blazers anyway, so fine. Go back. Exactly. He can he can come back, you know, once a year and Bucks fans, I think, will treat him well and, you know, Yeah. give him his his uh his his video. And I will say this, too. It’s like obviously like macro totally get the you know this was a failure wish you could if you could do it all over again you wouldn’t you know all all that stuff. Um but I mean again you know me guys ever the optimist. Um I mean I would point out like the fact that Jiannis signs that extension in the aftermath of him Yep. being traded for almost like doesn’t matter what like on some level that is like the most important thing. Um that I think for his arrival obviously was key in getting Giannis comfortable enough to sign that early extension. Um, and then you know it’s like I mean of course like in the national media it’s it’s kind of a punchline to celebrate it but like I had a great time with the NBA Cup guys like you know when it happened like I was like I’m celebrating the hell out of this Bucks odds are the Bucks are not winning an NBA championship so I will enjoy this. That was super fun. The team got to ex celebrate something together. I wish Chris Middleton had not been sick and could have been there. That kind of made me a little sad, especially in hindsight. But, you know, Dame and Giannis getting to celebrate like winning something together, like that’s cool, you know, and for a week in December of 2024, Bucks had great vibes and, you know, the NBA media got to say nice things about them. That’s cool. And, you know, I think Heart of Hearts, I’m sure Dame I’m sure that meant a lot to Dame. He never won anything in the NBA, right? So, um, so shout out to NBA Cups and shout out to Dame for helping get Giannis extended and, um, you know, now we just need, uh, year four of AJ Green to, uh, to get and an AJ Green extension to get Giannis excited to sign his next extension next summer. I thought you were going to say the Ajax breakout is is what gets the extension. Well, hey, if if maybe the Ajax breakout convinces Giannis to sign another extension next summer, it’s a good point on the extension. Like, did it work out on the court? No. But, um, Giannis stayed here and as we’ve all kind of said, too, like look, we’re going into this with eyes open. We know it’s probably going to get pretty dark whenever number 34 is not around. So, I would much rather maximize the time that I have with him and say, “Yeah, I mean, look, you’re not going to recoup the value in terms of everything that we’ve mentioned that he’s done for the organization and city and and basically created Bucks fans. It was hard to find. We were definitely anomalies for uh people that were this interested in the group for decades. So, you’re not going to ever replicate any of that.” So, yeah, I would like for the story to be Giannis finish his career with one team and hopefully gets back to that level and a a championship level. Um, but the the fact that it got him to resign or sign the extension can’t go unnoticed. And you know, even there’s a lot of moving parts to it, Camille. But even if that trade isn’t made, uh really the biggest thing that you’re missing out on is the draft picks because I think we’ve seen the rest of the construction of this roster. The problem, and I don’t mean this like to blame the guy because we’re obviously three of the biggest fans of his. The problem the Bucks ran into was the health of Chris Middleton. That they were just never good enough because that guy that was your second best player was not at that level anymore. Yeah. It felt like that last series in Indiana, you know, when Giannis was out, like that was the the swan song really of Chris Middleton as we want to remember Chris Middleton because after the ankle surgeries, like Chris was already losing the lateral movement defensively and at that point he was relying on his IQ being a team defender, but post injury it was it was it was very difficult um to watch him play defense. So like the Bucks had to make a decision. And I think for me when thinking of like the whole Dame saga, that all is part of what makes me the saddest is that we never really got to see the fully actualized version of the Bucks healthy in the playoffs trying to see how this would work. Not when Chris Middleton was here and then not after the team was kind of reshaped around the Dame and Giannis duo and how to try to maximize that and you just didn’t get a chance to see it. Um, so that’s the sad part about it. But outside of the NBA Cup, we also will have Dame Lillard winning a all-star MVP as a Milwaukee Buck, a three-point contest as a Milwaukee Buck. We have some memories from that first home playoff game against the Pacers when he went ballistic, the the Kings walk-off. Like a lot of good vibes for Dane, first game in a uniform, the the winner against Philly. Yeah. like it just it didn’t work out, but there were still moments and I have a lot of appreciation for him. And seeing like him doing his contract extension or the signing in Portland, his kids are like, “So, we don’t have to go on the plane anymore to Milwaukee and it’s like, no, I’m here.” Like, I think that’s going to do him so much good because that first year was marked with so much personal turmoil and he mentioned how difficult it was for him to play not being near his kids. And he’s going to be whole off the court. eventually after the injury he’ll find a way to get back onto the court. Like it just it’s a situation that makes a lot of sense. It’s a feel-good story for him and um I’m appreciative of everything that Dame did while he was here. And it also now opened the door for the Bucks now to explore playing in a way that I think is going to be really fun to watch to be honest with you with Giannis really being the the point guard of the team so to speak quote unquote on offense. Play different and go ahead Frank. The only other thing I was going to say too was um I’m curious what Giannis’ perspective on Dame because because look at what Dame did. Dame wanted out. Didn’t think he could win a championship with the franchise where he was the legend, best player in franchise history. He goes to a team on paper, oh compet compete for championships. Two straight years just bad luck. first round exit disappointment and you know goes back appreciative of what he had and I mean we’ve talked about this I think the nuance of what Giannis wants the terms of what Giannis would want as he thinks about potential other opportunities as he’s sitting there you know vetting every move the Bucks makes and watching their draft you know still reviewing through August grinding that Bogalu Marovich mega uh Adriatic League tape to figure out if this guy was a good draft pick. Really get really looking closely at that. Um I I I’ve always kind of thought like I’ve always wondered like I bet Giannis I bet Giannis realizes if he leaves and does not win, he is going to regret leaving. Yeah. You know, if he leaves and he doesn’t win another championship, he’s gonna regret leaving his fault. and it didn’t work out with a new team because it didn’t work with you. It’s going to be a perception. Yeah. Exactly. And that may not be fair, but like that’s that’s kind of the culture of and media of how this works. And so, yeah, I know Giannis wants to win championships. He wants to keep, you know, pressure on um he wants to keep pressure on the uh on on the front office and all that, but um I don’t know. I kind of wonder like him seeing Dame go back. Who knows what kind of conversations Dame and Giannis will, you know, have moving forward. Um, but I I have to wonder like that’s a bit of a cautionary tale for Giannis to be careful kind of what you wish for and all the grass is greener stuff and etc etc. So may maybe Dame helps us one one more time on the way out kind of saying, “Hey, thanks. You got a good thing going. just maybe, you know, win a championship. Just, you know, if you end up being like Dirk, there’s there’s much worse space than being, you know, the Dirk of uh of the Milwaukee Bucks. Uh yeah, I mean, we we said at the time after it happened, too, like this is the cautionary tale to to pay attention to here for every superstar, especially with what we all think are are going to continue to be the changes in the league with this CBA. And you know, the last thing on Dane, too, is uh again, I am nothing but grateful for his time in a Bucks uniform. It didn’t yield the results he wanted, but you can’t say he wasn’t invested in it or Dame clearly didn’t want like the guy came back from a blood clot and played in the playoffs. Um some of the things he did played through injuries injury. Yep. some of the things he did to in the NBA Cup and how fun that was. And I don’t think I’m revealing too much that it’ll upset the organization, but like these last two years were largely not fun, which is crazy to think about when you had that pairing of Damon Giannis and it just didn’t work. And especially the first year, obviously there was much more to it when you go through three coaches in a calendar year, but it just felt like there was this weird cloud over the team. So that stretch and that run into the cup was fun where you were like, man, I’ve now I remember what this feels like. Let’s get some more of this. And what Dame did with his money from the NBA Cup, too, that he split it up with people behind the scenes that were pretty vital and instrumental to all of those Bucks players um and spread it out to them and people that you’ll never hear about. So this wasn’t a dame didn’t care, Dame didn’t try type of thing. It just you tried as an organization and it didn’t work. So, um, one of the guys that you bring in now to not replace Dame, but to take some of those minutes, uh, did you guys see the post the Bucks put out there of the two eras of Anthony basketball and that Cole will in fact wear number 50? Um, I I now let’s just go all in. Like, we had the Twins for a while or the brothers for a while and that was the buck stick. Although, we can never get a second holiday. Now, let’s just be the Well, we did have uh what? Luke Cornett initially, so let’s just go in. As I call as I call him. I Al Horford they were linked to as well. Like now I’m starting to see why the Bucks were linked to Al Horford. Yeah. Gary Trent. Bucks drafty. Gary Trent and now we’ve got Junior. I mean, the bloodline stuff with the Bucks um is always uh is is pretty funny. Um so yeah. Um, GP2 and GP senior. Although that’s one I kind of want to forget sometimes. Yeah, maybe Vin Baker’s kid was playing at WM. Maybe we can summer league. He was on the summer roster a couple times. Get him on a two-way. I don’t think he’s going to make it at two. Didn’t he average like three points a game at WM or something like that? It wasn’t great. Probably not. Probably not. Darvin’s kid was at WM, too. I’m pretty sure he’s still my neighbor. Like, let’s get him in here, too. Yeah. Isn’t he Isn’t he with the team? I thought he had some roles. Yeah. Yeah. You got the Rivers children. At least at least one Rivers kid is is is around. Um yeah, it’s been it’s been an issue. But um yeah, and I will say this too, if I if I were to because I don’t think we’ve talked about kind of holistically, but I like the Cole Anthony signing. another example of like, you know, honestly, it’s like you just take like it’s you don’t really think about it from a free agency perspective, but especially with minimums, you know, it’s almost like best player available type deal. Um he’s talented and you know, hey, are we going to get a better player as a small forward? Like probably not. Um and so we’ll see kind of how it shakes out. But my guess is I I still think Kevin Porter Jr. is kind of the most likely candidate to to be starting. Um I think there’s, you know, an argument for Ryan Rollins is more of like, you know, kind of caretaker offball guy. Uh, but but honestly, I think they need firepower with Giannis as well. I don’t think they can get too cute playing a bunch of guys that don’t, you know, want to don’t really have kind of like playmaking juice and I think that’s a piece that, you know, Ryan is as big a fan as I am of him. That’s still something I I think, you know, he’s not a guy who just goes and gets you shots. um he’s not going to get you, you know, like, oh, we need 15 shots from you tonight because, you know, we don’t have a lot of firepower. So, um but yeah, Anthony signing interesting. Um it was interesting. I was kind of looking at some of his data, you think of him as like, you know, he’s not that big. You think of him as like, well, defensively he’s going to be targeted, but it was interesting. I mean with the Magic like like his metrics like like he wasn’t a guy that you know it’s not like their defense really got much worse when he came in even though he was often times replacing Jaylen Suggs who’s one of the best defenders in the league. Um, you know, I think he’s I think he can kind of be competent enough and I think compare, you know, comparing to where we were a year ago where you had obviously the big questions about Dame and then, you know, with Chris as well for the reasons you mentioned, Camille, you know, at the highest level, like what does Chris still have defensively? Now you’re in just a very different position because, you know, you have basically a younger version of Brook Lopez, a bit more mobile version of Brooke with Miles Turner. You still have Giannis being Giannis. You know, Koozma for all his foibless, I think, is a versatile defender that, you know, I thought showed well and worked as much as, you know, probably you would have wanted defensively. And then, you know, at your your guard spots, you’ve got, I think, some some options there as well. And a bunch of guys that, you know, are at least average to solid um and in some cases obviously better than that. So, um, so I think we’ve been saying, right, like if this team can be average offensively, that that would be great because then they also and then they can be like eighth or ninth defensively, that’s probably like the ideal scenario for me in terms of kind of the path to this team having, you know, a really positive season. Um, so we’ll see. So, I yeah, I like that one. Um, and I look at the roster like I still don’t really get the Gary Harris thing. Yeah. Don’t know what he’s got left. Um, if that was a clutch thing, maybe makes more sense. But yeah, so Gary Harris, I wouldn’t have made that, you know, if I put on my, you know, fake GM hat. Definitely would have rather had someone other than Gary Harris, especially given the positional redundancy. And then, as we were saying, like, you know, the three guys sort of on the end of the bench. Um, I would certainly not hesitate to cut any of them loose. Um, if you know a better player, right? I mean, if Marcus I mean we all like whatever you can we hate Marcus Smart’s flopping and all that, but like if he’s willing to come on a minimum, cut whoever. He’s not. No, he Well, he didn’t have to take the minimum, but uh but certainly like yeah, cut Ajax, cut Smith, cut Livingston. Like I don’t care. like I’ll gladly, you know, have Jimmy Hasslam pay a couple million extra this year to to facilitate getting a a you know, a more proven veteran. But, you know, we’ll see. I I don’t know if there’s anybody else like that that’s going to come along, but who knows? Maybe trade uh trade deadline Chris Middleton buyout. I think you and Van alluded to it. You know, Bucks are under the first apron, so they can sign him as a buyout candidate if it gets that far. Wouldn’t that be Wouldn’t that be a nice little fairy tale ending here back in the fold? Yeah. And uh what Gary Harris and Miles Turner I saw a lot of people like it’s an agent favor. They have they don’t have the same agent, but they’re both represented by CAA. So I don’t Oh, sorry. Yeah, not clutch, but yeah, maybe there’s some to that, but it’s not the actual same agent that’s running this. Um yeah, I mean I guess the last thing, too, is it’s just interesting. I heard somebody else uh one of the more prominent Bucks fans that makes a lot of appearances on uh some national podcasts talking about it too in that I’m excited for this team and mostly because it wasn’t very exciting the last two years which is crazy to say when you have Giannis and Damen Lillard together but it’s going to be different this year and that’s sparked my excitement. Yeah, different can be exciting because you don’t know what to expect all the way where it’s like the expectations for the team nationally are as low as they have been in quite some time here. You’re moving to a different style. Well, that’s only because you got a bottom five front office. I mean, right, right. The style of play should be faster. Like it feels like not like the Bucks were playing as if it was 1982 or anything like that, but to see a Bucks team with Giannis with more transition, more pace, like the concept sounds really fun to watch and I’m looking forward to it. Like I know some people have concerns about if his usage is too high, what will that mean for him, you know, months into the season, so on and so forth, but like let’s find out. Let’s see what this looks like when it’s a full-time thing with a young Bucks team, which we also haven’t seen um in quite so many years with the Bucks really prioritizing going the veteran route and trying to win championships. So, like I’ve I’ve been saying it for a while now since it seemed like Giannis was going to be back in Milwaukee of this should actually be pretty fun to see on the court and see how they play. So, like I’m also very much looking forward to it. It’s going to be an it’s it’s go from your first four cylinder to a six-cylinder car in the way that they’re going to play now. Like, wow, this thing’s got some punch. I mean, well, you hit on it, Camil. It’s like low lower expectations just makes everything more fun, you know? And honestly, I think that’s why people had a lot of fun with that eightgame winning streak. It’s because it was Scrappy and Giannis and a cloud of dust and all that. Um, and it’s kind of going to have to be more of that this this coming season. Um, so, you know, we’ll we’ll see. Um, we’ll see kind of whether they can kind of live up to it. I I only it would be nice if Giannis gave a little bit more of a clear commitment maybe for an entire season. Um, so maybe the cloud of, you know, like, oh, well, maybe if they start slowly, he’ll ask for a trade. would be nice to not have that hanging over the team. Um I I really want a solid start to the season, if only for that reason to just clear that whole thing. Um but you know, we’ll see. I’m very curious to see the schedule mainly because of I I hope they have a soft start because I really would to just kind of bank some early wins and not have another, you know, two and eight sort of hole to to have to dig out of. Hey, hey, Doc the Profit said, “We’re going to make the playoffs. We’re not concerned about that.” And they did. So, they can uh they can crawl out of a a slow start if that pops up again. And we’ll know the schedule in couple weeks. Yeah, probably two and a half, three weeks from now, that thing will come out and we’ll have a better idea. Sadly, it’s probably going to be back-to-back years that the Bucks are not playing on Christmas Day. Um, but it’s going to be interesting. I’ll say it again. I’m fine with it. I’m I don’t have to I don’t need a I don’t need a Bucks loss to, you know, put a damper on uh on my Christmas. Especially because if they did play on Christmas, it would definitely be a road game anyway. If if the if nothing else, if they would have been healthy, it would have been the Bucks in Indiana against the Pacers. Probably. That would have been a good matchup. Uh but everybody looking for that, too. When’s the first time the Bucks are going to be in Indiana and the Miles Turner reception? Then obviously the two Blazers games and when Dane makes his return to Milwaukee. So, uh, a lot that we covered on this one. We have, uh, Chris Johnson of the Here District is going to be with us on tomorrow’s show. And then something else we’re still working on for Friday. But that’ll do it for today’s show for Camille and Frank. I’m Justin. We’ll talk with you guys once again tomorrow on Locked on Bucks.

Bucks shake up roster as Lillard departs. Can Giannis lead Milwaukee to new heights?

Justin Garcia, Camille Davis, and Frank Madden dissect the Milwaukee Bucks’ summer moves and roster outlook. They analyze Andre Jackson Jr.’s potential impact, Cole Anthony’s signing, and the ripple effects of Damian Lillard’s brief stint in Milwaukee. The hosts explore how these changes might reshape the Bucks’ playing style around Giannis Antetokounmpo and discuss lower national expectations for the team.

Tune in for expert insights on the Bucks’ evolving strategy and how it could spark an exciting, faster-paced season. Will Milwaukee’s new look propel them back into championship contention?

0:00 Intro: 15th man on Bucks roster discussion
5:42 Summer League standouts: Nance and Livingston
13:41 Ranking young Bucks players’ potential
27:56 Cole Anthony signing and roster outlook
37:06 Giannis’ future and lessons from Dame
48:58 Excitement for new-look Bucks next season
54:37 Lower expectations could make season more fun

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