Ben Simmons to the Celtics? | Big 3 NBA Podcast

Ben Simmons to the Celtics? | Big 3 NBA Podcast

up for the layup. Oh, blocked by James. Larry Bird scores 16 points. Look at the Boston players. M. But Michael Jordan is not only the best basketball player, but he’s the most exciting basketball player to ever play. Fires away, cuts it in. 51 for Jason. [Music] Hey everyone, welcome to the Big Three NBA podcast. your co-hosts as usual, Arab Blakeley, Quani Lunis, Gary Washburn, all in the building today. And we’re going to talk about Summer League in just a second. But before we get started, we want to make sure that when you’re not listening to this podcast that you’re showing some love to our good friends at Prize Picks, America’s number one daily fantasy sports app. You can download the app today and get a $50 bonus after your first $5 lineup. And as a friendly reminder, you are listening to the Big Three NBA podcast, which is part of the CLNS media network, where you can find our episodes past and present, as well as a ton of other great Celtics talk content. All right, let’s just start with the Celtics at Summer League. They cap off their summer league stint with a win over Atlanta 101 180. They finished with a 4-1 record. Gary, I know you were on the ground there. What was the biggest takeaway from you being able to see the Celtics in action? Um, they all looked fine. Like there was nothing. Jordan Walsh looked like he’s adapted and he can maybe make a contribution this year. Uh, Ugo Gonzalez looked like he’ll be eventually be an NBA player. He’ll probably need some work and as we’ve debated, he’s probably going to be headed for Maine uh just to get some reps and some minutes. Uh Amari Williams is a bigger dude than I thought. He he he’s going to be okay. I think probably like Ugo going down to Maine. Um Max Shugla, uh I was here there. I wasn’t really impressed with him. Um, he had his moments, but I I didn’t look at him and be like, “Wow, what a, you know, what a standout player. I need to see more from him.” Uh, Shyman just struggled from the field. I think he’s uh 20some percent from the three-point line, 22% from the three-point line, had a lot of open looks, couldn’t hit them. Uh, we’ll see. you know, well, he’s the one that you thought would probably have the most opportunity to make an impression and to get minutes as this year with obviously all the lineup changes and roster adjustments. And I was not impressed. I mean, the the shot needs to go down. Like, if he’s not making shots, there’s no real reason to have him on the floor. I mean, I know he can hustle and he can do kind of the Aaron Nesmith thing in terms of just being a guy who plays with his hair on fire, but shots need to go down because he’s going to get a lot of open looks. So, uh, I was, you know, I thought that they looked, you know, they looked pretty good. uh well coached job done by a coaching job by Matt Reynolds, but there was nobody that I was just like, “Okay, this, you know, besides Charles Batsy, uh who played three games and then deuces went deuces and uh left the team and we’ll see what happens with him and whether he uh rejoins the team or signs to somebody else.” But I I thought they were okay. Nothing that I’m going to take away and be like, “Wow.” But I think Walsh took a step forward. Shyman will see. Uh Gonzalez would be fine. Williams would be fine. Shugla and Shyman. Well, I’m just glad that Gary went beyond all players look fine because I thought that’s where he was going to go. Sh. He looked fine. He all players look fine. This is the thing. Again, we’ve seen enough summer league to know that you can’t put too much stock into what guys do good or bad in summer league. Uh we we’ve seen a lot of guys absolutely look dominant in summer league and come regular season games, they’re like tasked with the friendly ghost. Where they at? Where they at? Nowhere to be found. The the guy that I really for me the big takeaway was Ugo. uh because he really was to me the biggest wild card on their team and a guy that plays a position that they’re going to need to address in some way, shape or form this season. Whether it’s him, whether it’s Jordan Walsh, whether it’s Shyman, they’re going to need some help from that wing position. And he’s the one guy that we really didn’t have any kind of sense of what he could do, what he could not do, what parts of his game are really good, which parts of his game are works in progress. So, he was the guy that I probably put the most stock in as far as I need to learn as much about him in summer league as I possibly can to figure out what what role, if any, can he play. And he is like, I think any other rookie, whether you’re a top five pick or a top 55 pick, you’re going to be up and down. And I thought we saw that in summer league. Uh we saw some very good moments from him and we saw some like where the hell did Ugo go uh moments from him. And that’s to be expected. That’s why the G-League is such a beneficial thing for guys like him to kind of work out some of those kinks, figure out the areas of his game that need need work and figure out the games that or parts of his game that you can actually benefit from. Now, I love the energy. I love the fact that he seems to be one of those guys that you’re not going to worry about his effort ever being an issue or concern. And for a team like the Celtics at this stage of where they are as they’re trying to figure out how do they move forward uh without taking too many steps backwards when you lose a guy like Drew Holidayiday, you lose a guy like Porzingis, you’re probably going to lose out and you’re not going to have Tatum for most if not all of the season, you’re going to need as many energy type guys as possible. Uh and they’re going to make mistakes. They’re going to blow assignments. But will they give you that kind of energy and effort that on some nights could be the difference between uh them literally winning or losing a game? I think Ugo is that type of player that early on I think that’s going to be his calling card is just great energy, great effort, but damn, he’s going to make a lot of mistakes. Uh and you can live with that if you’re the Celtics because the team that you’re putting together is not being built to win a title this year. it’s built to start building the pieces towards returning to championship caliber form sooner rather than later. So for me, the big takeaway was that Ugo actually has an intangible quality, his effort that if you’re the Celtics, you’re probably going to be able to get some mileage out of in spurts here and there, but by no means did he show or frankly any of them show the ability to be a rotational type of guy that you can feel comfortable and confident that they’re going to contribute on some type of steady basis. And that goes for Shyman and for Jordan Walsh uh as well. I mean, again, they’re obviously a little bit further down the road than Ugo is, but they showed, I think, some similar inconsistencies as far as what they can do and what can they do consistently. Uh, and as Gary pointed out, and we had such a small sample size to work from, but from what we see, Bassie can play. Bassie could help them actually this year. Uh, he has a couple of very clear basketball skills that they need more of going forward. Uh now whether that’s in Boston, whether it’s for another NBA team or whether it’s overseas, we don’t know for sure just yet, but that is a guy that you absolutely anticipate will be on somebody’s roster, somebody’s professional basketball roster come the start of the season. And that’s the beauty of summer league to the points that you both made. This is a chance for the Celtics to see are they leak ready or do they still need to develop? But that being said, obviously you mentioned Sherrod that it doesn’t seem as though that many of them are ready to really contribute, but who would you say helped themselves the most when you do look at the big picture of this summer outcome? I would say it was Jordan Walsh. Um because I I think Jordan was the one guy that for those of us who saw him during his first, you know, summer league tour of duty and saw him at, you know, different points during his time with the Celtics, you could see that there’s some potential where he has some qualities, some skills that could help you. But with him, it’s consistency. It’s showing the ability to to make an open shot. Uh his ability to really be a little bit more steady and consistent with what he does defensively. Those are the kind of qualities and traits that I think he showed I think the ability to do it a little bit more consistently than he has shown with, you know, with the with the Celtics. Uh will that translate? We don’t know. But I think he has at a minimum he’s given himself another shot at proving his worth because I think if if Jordan Walsh would have just played like crap and and just look out of sorts, I don’t know if he would be with the Celtics come training camp. Um I I think that would have raised lots of question as to whether this is an investment we either need to continue to pour into or do we need to pull the rip cord and just call it a day. Uh so I think he’s he did enough in summer league to at least secure himself a chance to compete for playing time. Uh, and I think he was the one guy that of of the guys that have played for the Celtics, him and Sharon specifically, he was the one guy that I think really needed this this summer league to assert himself as a guy that they could at least give some serious and legitimate thought to being someone to compete for minutes come training camp. I’m going say Miles Norris. Um, he’s a guy on a two-way contract um that needed to show that he could just play the way the Celtics want him to play. He’s a long lanky guy. He’s 610. Um, can stretch the floor shooting a three. So, he has a defined role. Three and D guy. A guy who can be a disruptor on defense. I’m not talking about a stopper. Okay? I’m not talking about Draymond Green or nothing. I’m just talking about a guy who could be a menace on defense, play good defense, and knock down open threes. And I thought for the most part, he didn’t have a great shooting um uh summer, but he had his moments. He also did a good job of cutting to the rim is what he’s going to have to do. Cut from that corner to the rim and and get easy buckets. So, I thought Miles Norris R was definitely an NBA player. I mean, you know, when you’re on a two-way and there’s there’s plenty of guys in that summer league after your spot. I mean, that’s the that’s the goal of many guys in summer league is to get a two-way contract. You know, we saw a kid TJ Hall from Memphis who sorry, from Charlotte, played all then got a two-way contract from um Memphis and couldn’t play in the championship game, you know, um because he got he got what he accomplished. He got what he was looking for. Um a deal, invitation to training camp, a chance to develop. And I think with Miles Norris and as much as, you know, he’s a guy that’s kind of been overlooked, you know, brought on last year, uh, but to me, he’s a guy that they can get something from this year. He’s 25 years old. He’s not a young guy anymore. So, he needed to take a step forward and show that he could be uh that difference making player. And I thought for the most part, he was. He did not have a great shooting summer, but I like the way he was able to do some intangible things, play defense, cut to the basket, and just be a menace out there and be make an impact. I think that’s the role they’re looking for Baylor Shyman to fill. But I thought Norris took a step forward. Now, he’s going to still stay on his two-way contract and probably start the season in Maine. But I do think um he could help this team with minutes here and there. And that’s what you want to do. You don’t want to be expendable. You don’t want to be that guy who didn’t take a step forward or it’s because two-way contracts, you know, you can get released like that and they just bring on another player, right? This is not a it’s not a it’s not a three-year deal for Miles Norris. So, it’s not like he can turn around and say, “Well, I got plenty of time.” Like the the the time is is is now for him. And I thought that a solid job. Yeah. 2A guys need to play with a 10day m 10day contract mentality. uh because you really you’re you are on borrowed time if if you’re not smart and careful about it. Uh and Gary, the point you made, I think this is it’s one of the things that when people are evaluating uh and fans specifically when you’re looking at guys in summer league and what they you know their chances of playing and things like that, you need to ignore the stat sheet and focus on what your eyes are telling you. Are they moving without the ball well? Are they getting in position defensively? Are they doing the intangible things that if they’re on the parent club, if they’re playing with that NBA team, they’re going to have to do those things to get on the floor? Uh NBA teams are not looking for their their two-way cat or their G or their, you know, the free agent pickup to get them 20 points a game. No, they need you to defend. They need you to pick. If you’re out there and you’re 610, 611 and you playing the Sixers, your job is to limit or file Joel Embiid if you’re big. That’s your job. Uh if you are a wing and you’re playing, you know, the Clippers, your job is to keep James Harden as much as possible in front of you as you can, you’re not gonna shut him down. But if you can keep in front of you, give your starters a chance to catch their breath before they come back in the game, those are the things that will get you in the league, those are the things that are going to position you so that you can move from that two-way deal to a regular traditional contract and maybe at some point get a get a actual multi-year deal. Uh and I you’re right, Gary. I mean, Miles, I think, definitely took a step in the right direction. I still think he’s got a ways to go before the Celtics will feel comfortable with him as being one of their 12 one of their active roster or even, you know, guaranteed contract type guys. But yeah, I I think he he’s another guy that did, I think, a lot of things that if you’re the Celtics and you’re looking at the type of intangible type of players that you’re going to need to compete this year, he’s someone that you could see him getting called up from the G-League for certain matchups or for certain stretches of the season where maybe you’ll throw him out there for maybe two, three, four games in a row or something like that. whether it’s because of an injury to someone else or whether it’s just because you just need an extra body to give you a little bit of something uh out there. So, uh he definitely, you know, accounted for himself well uh this summer. Uh but but again, I I still go back to, you know, you know, Jordan Wash to me, that’s the one guy that absolutely needed uh to show that he belonged. Uh and I thought he did that. So, okay, it’s time for your weekly reminder. For those of you that are listening to the Big Three NBA podcast, we ask that you subscribe, like, and also leave a review. And for those of you that are watching the show on CLNS, go ahead, hit that like button and subscribe to the Celtics All Access YouTube channel where you can find our show and a lot of other great Celtics content. Also, make sure you turn those post notifications on so that you know the moment the instant a new video drops. Absolutely. And while we are uh you know giving the shout outs to folks. So shout out to our good friends at prize picks uh which is America’s number one daily fans sports app. Don’t miss your chance to cash in while watching your favorite teams and favorite athletes compete this summer. Whether we’re talking about women’s basketball, soccer, esports, there’s so much more that you can deal you can handle when you you go with Price Fix where you can mix and match your player projections from all different sports out there. And with over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings, Prize Pix has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all. You just pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to 2,000 times your cash. Run your game all season long on Prize Pix, America’s number one daily fantasy sports app. How do you get in? It is real simple. Download the app today. Use the code CLNS to get $5 instantly off your first $5 lineup. Excuse me. Download the app today and use the code cls to get $50 off. $50 off instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks run your game. All right, so the Boston Celtics are reportedly interested in a guy by the name of Ben Simmons. That’s Gary’s favorite player, by the way, in case y’all didn’t know that. Who’s who’s her? That’s Gary’s favorite player in case people didn’t know that. The perfect cue up for me to ask him. Do you like the idea of Ben being on the Boston Celtics? Why or why not? I mean, if you’re trying to win this year, um, you know, maybe he could help with a Ben troll, but I don’t know why you would bring him on unless you really see something that he could blossom into or you could see something he could do different than what he’s been doing the last few years. I mean, Ben’s a guy who we all know has his offensive limitations, does not like to shoot, does not like to score. He would rather rebound and just distribute. he’s kind of got the the the yips when it comes to shooting the ball. Um, and it’s been like that since his Philadelphia days. They didn’t, you know, Brooklyn didn’t go well. I think he had his moments this year with the Clippers here and there. So, if you really are trying to win this, I don’t know why you’d bring him on for next year when you can sign a young guy or bring in someone younger with more potential. I’d rather see, damn it, JD Davidson play those minutes. I’d rather see somebody with, you know, some Jordan Walsh play those minutes. I I just don’t want to see uh Ben Simmons play here for a year. He’s going to sign a one-year deal. You would never commit to anything more than a year with him. And then so he’s he’s going to help you win more games next year. Um I think he belongs on a team that’s probably more geared toward a championship. He could play a seventh or eighth man. Um there’s just too many limitations. The ship has sailed on Ben Simmons. It’s unfortunate blaming, you know, the mental issues in terms of just not being the yips, the injuries, um you know, and just kind of probably not taking the game as seriously as he should, you know, just messing around in Philadelphia. Then the Brooklyn thing was, uh, you know, a joke and now the Clippers, you know, he he he, you know, represented himself. Okay, there was no anything wrong with the Clippers, but why would you bring him on when you could have other guys, you can sign someone off who was good in summer league, you can give them a a one-year deal and play those guy, that guy those minutes. Give a guy who’s hungry. Is Ben Simmons hungry? The answer is no. He likes the life. He’s been, you know, he’s done everything. You know, this is who he is. It’s the run is over. you know, no, I don’t think Ben Simmons would be a good fit. Wow. Uh I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you in this one, Gary. And here’s here’s why. Here’s why. Uh let me first and foremost make it very clear. I’m not a huge Ben Simmons fan, but to getting him for one year at the absolute basement price that you would be paying for him, I am a fan of that. Uh and here’s why. You need to create as best you can an environment that is going to be, I think, relatively competitive. And even if Ben Simmons is not playing at his peak, even if he’s not going hard, he’s better than a lot of guys that you’re going to have on your team. Uh, and so to me, this is a proving year for Ben Simmons. If you if he has any shot at changing the narrative behind who he has been labeled as as a player, you go to a team that’s going to allow you to play that’s going to frankly force you to modify and tweak your game because you can’t possibly play for Joe Missoula and not want to shoot. Joe is going to make is going to force the issue. He’s never really played for a coach who is such a someone who is chips all in on shot taking the way Joe Mazula is. So to me, if I’m Ben Simmons, if I have any shot of ever, ever becoming a more complete all-around player, this is probably the place I want to be because I know that this is a place where one, I’m going to get a chance to play. Two, I get a chance to play for a coach who is going to force feed me to be more of a shot taker than I am. And three, worst case scenario is that it doesn’t work out. I got my one year and I’ll go on to the next team and the narrative will be the same. Uh, and to me that there there are far more reasons why this would work than not work. Uh, and again, not a huge Ben Simmons fan, but I do love the fact that he’s in a position now where he has no choice but to at least position himself to change the narrative because damn near any other team he goes to, they’re just going to let him do what he’s done. Like if let’s say he goes to a team like Oklahoma City or a team like you know that’s maybe a little bit closer or Orlando, a team that’s closer to winning a championship than the Celtics are, he’s going to go there and not shoot. He’s going to go there and pass. He’s going to rebound. He’s going to do all the things he’s done previously and then when the season’s over, he’s going to be in the same boat. No one is going to want to bring him on because he’s done nothing to improve his game. Uh he is example of what happens when you when the when the basement is relatively high and then you realize the ceiling ain’t quite as as high as you thought it was. Ben ceiling Ben Simmons does not have a very high ceiling and at least with Boston there’s a chance to expand that ceiling a little bit because he has to become more of a shot taker. Sherrod he hasn’t taken a three-pointer in three years. Okay. He’s taken 36 three-pointers in his career. His career. That’s a Celtics first half 36. He’s five for 36 career for the three-point line in his whole life. His whole life. Is that how you define being a shot taker? You’ve got to shoot threes. Last I checked, there was a cat named uh Richard Hamilton who rarely took threes where he developed a mid-range game. If you’re play he he he played look look at the Clippers, okay? 18 games he shot for he averaged 2.9 points. He shot seven free throws in 295 minutes, which means he’s trying to avoid getting fouled because he does not want to go to the free throw line. He’s and and playing with James Harden has nothing to do with not getting to the line because of course James is going to make sure that you get the ball. He can go to the hole. He’s useless offensively, Sherrod. He just isn’t a factor at all. He’s afraid to shoot. Why have him out there? He could rebound and he could have give assists. If you just want somebody who’s gonna be you gonna play four on five every time offensively, which I just don’t think is is I mean to me, no. He’s just a guy who can rebound. Now you’re right. If you playing with Harden and Kawhai and guys who can you ain’t getting the ball going to no damn hole. You know that. No. Yeah. So that’s fine. That’s a role for him. But in Boston, you talking about him taking more shots. You don’t want him to take more shots. He averaged 2.9 points a game. He shot three times a game with the Clippers. He hasn’t shot more than like Sherrod. He just doesn’t score. He doesn’t do anything. Yet he’s a multi He’s a multi-allar. He’s been an all-star more than once. Five years ago before before his head got he got in his head. Yes. He was rookie of the year. Allstar. two-time all three-time all-star. You act like that was in 1927. That was like fast. Shiron, it was five years ago. He’s hurt his multiple back injuries. He’s had the mental yimps. Like, this is five years ago, man. That’s dog years for Ben Simmons. Like, that’s a long ass time ago. Why you Why you call him a dog though, G? I see what you did. Do that. I’m just saying don’t do that. I ain’t doing that. I’m just saying, Sherrod, five years for him, that’s a long time ago. Like, he is not the player nearly the player he once was. He was the number one overall pick. He was a guy, okay, he was not going to get you 25 points a game, but he was going to get you 15, eight, and eight and and a couple of steals. That was his thing. Then the 15 dropped to 10. Then it dropped to six. Then he was afraid to shoot the ball. He’s afraid to go to the free throw line. So he’s no you’re playing four on five with him because the minute he gets the ball he’s looking to pass unless he is under the even if he has a dunk as we saw he don’t even want to dunk. So no if you’re playing on a championship if you’re playing him Sherrod with if you had Tatum back and Brown and like four shooters and he’s just the utility guy. Okay. But you’re playing him and and you need some offense. I’d rather see those minutes go to Sh Davidson to some Yes. JD Davidson. Somebody with some MVP. Yes. Or or or maybe the Jordan Wash the the all-time leading summer league score for himself. Ain’t got no potential no more. The potential gone, man. It’s gone. He’s just a dude. He’s a 6’8. He’s just a 6 foot10 dude who can pass a little bit and rebound. He’s afraid to shoot. Whatever it is, he just got them the chuck knob blocks. And if y’all remember that, he was a second base who couldn’t couldn’t make a throw to first. He had the yips and it was mental. Ben, it’s in his head. I’m sure he’s a better offensive player than he shows, but he’s afraid to shoot. And teams have to understand, okay, even if he gets the ball in the paint wide open, he is going to look to pass. Why would you want that? When you’re developing, you’re developing this year. You develop somebody. Find somebody to develop. Not find some 23 year old dude. Fi, you know, Shan, I even do I even do you a favor. Get some kid from Syracuse. Won’t that make you happy? Get set back. Bring it back from from Get O. You know, if you if you gonna do this, get Oette back. He got Simmons. Here’s the thing. But Garrett, here’s the thing that maybe I’m overestimating this, but it’s just because I honestly believe this to be the case. I think Joe Missoula could be the one that can unlock Ben Simmons and make him a a better player. I think Joe Misoula, you talk about develop beyond because here’s the thing. But Gary, here’s the thing you got to remember. When you talk about developing players, you got to have something to work with from day one to develop players. With Ben, you already have an elite passer, you already have a guy that can rebound, you already have a guy that has some very clear transferable skills that can help your team. If you are as irrationally confident in what you can do that Joe Missoula is, which we all know he’s pretty damn confident that he can coach the hell out of a team, this would be the ultimate challenge and the ultimate I told y’all I could coach. Look what I did with this one. Because if he could somehow find a way to unlock Ben Simmons to not be a great shooter, but just be a willing shot taker, that changes so many things for the Celtics. And again, Gary, the worst case scenario is that you have a guy that can defend, rebound, and pass. That’s like the worst case scenario that you’d have for next season. And again, I still think that even if you don’t play him a ton of minutes, the fact that his skill set is where it’s at, even without the shot making, he’s going to make the guys on your team better in practice. He’s going to have value whether he’s on the court or not. And to me, that’s why at a minimum, Gary, you need to think about this. If you’re the Celtics, at a minimum, you gotta give it some thought. That’s what I’m saying. The way it’s a good I thought about it. I thought about it. Yeah. And you ain’t gonna And your answer is I thought about it and uh No, we good. We good. This is such a great It’s clearly divisive, but also a great conversation. If you’re watching on YouTube or CLNS, drop in the comments, would you want Ben Simmons on the Celtics? I think this will be a continuing conversation until we figure out where he ends up. But before we get out of here, for all of you that are listening to the show, we do want to remind you again to subscribe to the podcast, like, leave a review, and for those of you that are watching the show on CLNS, go ahead, hit that like button and subscribe to the Celtics Media and Celtics All Access YouTube channel where you can find our show and a lot of other great Celtics content. And one more thing, please make sure you turn on those notifications so you know the moment a new video drops for Blakeley and Gary Washburn. I’m Quani Lewis and this is the Big Three NBA podcast. Quani, before we go, Quanie, before we go, um, ju before we go and I’ve been thinking about this the whole show, uh, just condolences to the Malcolm Jamal Warner family and all his friends. Uh, Theo Huxible, as many people, you know, know him as, uh, his passing away uh, in Costa Rica. He was 54 years old uh, from, you know, the Cosby Show. uh for for me and for many uh young people, Theo was I mean he was that dude uh he very inspirational what he did in his life as an actor. Uh also had a great music career had I think I believe he got a Grammy uh at one point as well. Uh and just really just his you know untimely death is just really sad on so many levels. I just wanted to uh put that out there and just you know certainly my thoughts and I think the thoughts of millions are with him, his family, his friends, his you know followers etc. Uh so just before we got out of here I want us to just at least acknowledge that. Same thing with Aussie Aussie Osborne just passed away too and I know a lot of people don’t really know much about Aussie Osborne. Uh that’s another iconic figure in our entertainment space that recently passed away but but certainly Malcolm Jan Warner is the one that I’ve been thinking the most about. very transparent about that. No, thank you for doing that. Thank and thank you for giving him condolences. That’s all we have for this week’s episode. [Music]

On this week’s show, Sherrod Blakely, Kwani Lunis and Gary Washburn recap the Boston Celtics’ summer league play, as well as Boston’s reported interest in former All-Star Ben Simmons. 

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