Rockets ’86 Finalist Rodney McCray on Hakeem, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson & Larry Bird

Rockets ’86 Finalist Rodney McCray on Hakeem, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson & Larry Bird

[Music] Welcome to Houston Sports Talk with your host Robert Land. Going to drive on McDaniel puts it up at the buzzer and go. We’re going old school Rockets. And that gorgeous gamewinner came off the hands of Rockets 1983 round pick Rodney McCrae who I go indepth with in today’s show. Thanks for checking in to the Best Houston Sports Podcast, part of the National Believe Network. And why should Rockets fans know and love Rodney McCrae? I know some of you out there are going, “Who is Rodney McCrae?” Well, number one, he played a pivotal role in three of the Rockets four finals appearances. Number two, McCrae helped pull off one of the biggest upsets in Rockets playoff history. And number three, Rodney made a pass that’s part of Rockets lore and NBA history. For young Rockets fans, I’ll describe McCrae as the Shane Badier or Trevor Oriza of the mid80s Rockets, the glue guy who was entrusted to guard Larry Bird, James Worthy, and Dominique Wilkins. In just a couple of minutes, you’re going to hear me ask him about playing with Ralph Samson, Hakee Elijahan, Louisville legend Daryl Griffith, and getting coached by Denny Crumb, Bill Fitch, and Phil Jackson. He played in three Final Fours, has an NCA title, won an NBA title with some dude named Michael Jordan. Yeah, we’re going to talk about that a little bit, too. McCrae was a part of the most iconic college basketball game or one of the most iconic in history when Famjama faced the doctors of dunk in 1983 in that final four classic. Besides all those stories, we talk about the frustration of the 86 Rockets breakout with the Samson injury and the John Lucas drug suspension. Does he think about what it could have been? Could the Rockets have won the 86 title? You’re going to hear his angle on it. But if you want the whole story on the 86 team, I talked to classic Rockets beat writer Robert Faloff, beatw writer from 1980 to 1995 about that season. It’s in our Rockets history playlist. Here’s what Falov remembers about that Lucas suspension. How much did you know about his substance abuse problems at that time leading up to his suspension in ‘ 86? 84 85 he got suspended and then he ended up coming back. That’s when it first came to light about, to my knowledge, there may have been some rumors before that. Yeah. I just remember that in March of ‘ 86, just remember going to practice the next day and Lucas wasn’t there. I asked somebody, uh, you know, where’s Luke? It was just like everybody was just kind of, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. I was the only media person there that day. So, you know, you got to write about it. Uh, he’s not here. when that, you know, news came out and obviously the the club investigated, he was uh forced to take a drug test, it came back positive and because of the violations the previous year, he was gone. And to watch the 86 playoffs, to watch that team that he had been on all year and to have to watch it on TV, watch that team go to the finals and to know that, you know, had he been there, who knows? I mean, maybe the Celtics would have won anyway, but who knows? He was a pure prototype point guard. He had his issues off the field, but he could deliver passes like nobody’s business. He could throw the alleyoop better than anybody. He was a great floor general. He was a great mentor for the young players. You know, he’s a veteran point guard that could penetrate, get to the basket almost at will. And somehow they got to the finals without him. And you got to ask yourself, what would they have done with him? I think he has said since then that it was the best thing that could have ever happened to him for his life because that was the time when he actually did hit rock bottom and and we know what he’s gone on to do and what he’s done with his life with his rehabilitation ventures there in Houston and how many people he’s helped. You’ll get Rodney McCrae’s angle on the Lucas story in a few minutes. But another part of the McCrae story is the what if because what if they drafted Clyde Drexler, the local hero from the University of Houston in that draft. Rockets fan base, they weren’t happy about that move. You’re going to hear how McCrae dealt with the backlash. Here’s what Falov remembers about that. You talk about the third pick, that’s another big story because Bill Fitch thought Rodney McCrae was the perfect guy, but of course that’s one of the great whatifs in Rockets history because everybody in Houston wanted Clyde Drexler. Do you know that if there was much of a debate among the Rockets front office on that? No, I don’t think so. You know, Clyde, a lot of teams passed on Clyde. I think he was the 14th pick. It wasn’t like it was right there and and the next pick was g was Drex. So, you know, Clyde came out a year early and yeah, he had great ability and great potential and he could jump like crazy, but I think a lot of people questioned the jump shot. No, I think Bill was pretty firm on he loved the complimentary piece of Rodney McCrae and putting him at the three and having uh having Samson and McCrae to build around. those guys were pretty committed to uh to M McCrae and and uh yeah they they like Clyde, but it ju you know just because he was from University of Houston or Houston guy I don’t think they anticipated that Clyde would become the kind of pro that he was obviously a surefire Hall of Famer worked out pretty good for a while. Uh Rodney was a very solid, very good player, at least for the the second year. The 86 team, you know, Samson McCrae were integral figures in getting the Rockets to the NBA Finals. Keep in mind, we got a few conversations about the 80s and 90s Rockets with Robert Faloff in our archives. A couple of important notes before I throw it to the McCrae conversation. You hear me mention right off the top of the show he’s responsible for three of the Rockets four finals appearances. You might say, “Well, how’s that?” Because he was only on one of the four teams. But you got to remember McCrae was dealt for Otis Thorp, who in turn was dealt for Clyde Draxler, and both were obviously integral to those clutch city teams. So, forget six degrees of Kevin Bacon, it’s two degrees of Rodney McCrae. Do any of you listeners remember McCrae or the 86 Rockets team? Do you enjoy these classic interviews? Well, let me know in the comments. I want to hear from you guys. Got to find out if you guys are enjoying this stuff or I’m just spinning my wheels here doing this. But as as always, help us out. Share our content on social media. Tell your friends. Let everybody know. Call them up. Tell them about Houston Sports Talk. Once you subscribe on YouTube, make sure you click for notifications so you see our new content. I need your support more than ever because hey, I’m trying to grow this thing out. I’m trying to get you guys more content more often. Appreciate all the good vibes you could send. Last couple of notes before we hear McCrae. didn’t get a chance to get to this in the interview, but McCrae was actually named to the 1980 Olympic basketball team, but did not get to compete because of that Team USA boycott due to the issues with the Soviets in the United States at that time. It was also the same year his Louisville team won the national title. So 1980, huge year for Rodney. When I interviewed him, he was the head coach of Houston’s Victory Prep High School and was coaching Jared Vanderbelt. Yes, the current Laker Jared Vanderbilt. So, did a good job getting Jared on his way to the NBA. And this conversation also was our pre-YouTube video days, so it’s audio only. I think you’ll still enjoy it, though. You’re going to hear Rodney mention his brother Scooter. The two of them actually played together at Louisville before they both played in the NBA. Real close duo there. Scooter could hoop a little himself. I asked Rodney to start with, what was it like to play with the legendary Daryl Griffith aka Dr. Duncanstein while they were at Louisville? Well, I remember my brother’s first year and Griff had played one summer with the World University Games and they showed him jumping over a player. First thing out of my mouth was, “Does does Griff jump as high as they say he jump?” He was like, “Yeah, he jumps that high.” So, I just couldn’t wait to get there. So, I could see for myself, but I knew going in that they had a young team because when my brother went there year before, they had four talented freshman that came in the year before I arrived. So, when I made a selection to go there, a lot of people like, “Well, you’re going there. Yeah, young team. You think you’re going to be able to play? I was I was like, I’m confident no matter where I go that I’m going to play as long as I work hard. And plus, I want to be pushed every day in practice. But when I stepped onto the campus my first uh week and we was just working out and I was like, “Wo, this is, you know, this is going to be a little tougher than I thought it was going to be.” But the competition level in practice was so high that when it came time for the game time, it was it just made it that much easier because you knew if you didn’t bring your aame that somebody coming in off that bench might play that night to play well and you might not get back in the game. So you was always on your toes ready to compete. Practice and it worked out for the best for us. Three Final Four appearances in four years at that time was pretty much unheard of. You you didn’t win the game in 83 that everybody remembers around here against UFH, but it was one of the great games ever. What was it like to be in that atmosphere and I believe that was in New Mexico, right? In Albuquerque. Yes. Yes. It was u you know all year long we were considered basketball junkies and when we weren’t playing we were watching we were watching ESPN who had just burst onto the scene and I remember after some games I would be in my dorm and it was a guy on the second floor and we just come in the hallway and start talking. You see ESPN? Did you see North Carolina? You see James Worthy last night. You see U of you see Fire Slammer Jammer. So we’ve always thought to be the best, you had to play the best. And during that senior year, me and my brother was like, “What do you think the game would be like if we played Houston?” We knew we were on a collision course if we continue to do what we were going to do. And they were going to do that eventually. We would meet and it wouldn’t have been the same to get to championship game if you didn’t have opportunity to play which who you considered could have been or was the best team in the country that year. But, uh, it was a great game. It was a great hype. It lived up to the hype. Of course, we were on the short end of the stick, but it was one of those games that’s going to last for you, last in your memory forever. You get drafted by the Rockets and, you know, after playing with all the great teams in Louisville. The good news is you’re great enough to get drafted early in the draft. The bad news is that was a really bad thing. You guys came in on you and Ralph. What was that like that first year? And you walk in and you go from Denny Crumb to Mr. Happy Bill Fitch. Well, the year before we got that, Ed won, I believe, 16 games. 16 or 14 games. I believe it was 16. So me and Ralph, I was like, I know we going to be able to win at least 20 something games. We going to win more than 16 games. But we were on a a five-year plan to just keep getting better, add players along uh each year. And not only did me and Ralph come in, we also had Craig Elo, who was part of that team. Uh most people remember him as playing for Cleveland, but he did start out in Houston. But we were fortunate enough to come to a team that had a lot of veteran leadership. Elvin Hayes was uh getting ready to retire at the end of the year. Robert Reed had come back. It had a lot of guys who had been to the finals in 81 that pulled two rookies to the side and said, you know, if you want to last here, this is what you need to do. You need to take care of your body. You need to get your rest cuz it’s a long season. I remember just running up and down the court just fast as I could every practice and one of the guys pulled me inside. It’s like, you do know we play 82 games, right? You need to slow down. I was like, oh, okay. So, but it made a difference for me and probably Ralph for a lot of rookies coming into situations where the veterans took them up under their wing and kind of showed them the ropes and that uh allowed us to be successful in the in the NBA. You get Elijah on the next year and when they make that draft pick, you know, it’s going to be a Keem Ralph that the the Twin Towers, the really the original version maybe of the Twin Towers. You see today, we just got Boogie Cousins and Anthony Davis together. What did you think? How did you think that was going to work? And as the guy that was out front there, you had to like it cuz you knew if somebody got by you, they weren’t getting very far. Absolutely. Well, when they drafted me the year before, there was a lot of speculation that they were going to take uh you know, they were looking at Clyde, they were looking at Dale, they were looking at guys that could score. And at that time when they were interviewing players, I don’t believe they had made a selection of which coach they were going to bring in because remember Dale Harris had been let go and they were still kind of searching for a coach. and our CD who’s Carol Dawson at the time I believe was part of the scouting department and he was you know they bring people in to work out but when coach Fitch got the job right away he said he was looking for a complimentary player who wasn’t per se looking to score we needed somebody that could get the ball to Ralph at that time and just play his role because I like to play defense like to get the ball to the open man I was pretty much allaround ball player so after our rookie year which we thought was a successful year. We get lucky. Like you said, we got Elijahan and I’m like I remember just hearing that we won the coin toss and they were going to select Elijahan. So I was like okay. My first thought was like which one of those two guys are going to play the power forward. And Ralph who always thought he was a guard said I’ll play power forward. So it really made my job a whole lot easier. Instead of having one guy to throw the ball to I had two of them and you just play off of them. But again we still had we had picked up John Lucas. We had Lewis Lloyd who loved to score. We had Mitchy Wiggins coming off the bench. So, the team was really looking pretty good. Like I told you, we were on a 5-year plan and we got to the finals in three years. So, it was it was pretty successful. We liked our team. We liked the pieces and it was like a puzzle. Everybody fit together. They knew their roles and we played it to the tea. Did the fans take a while to warm up to you? Because I know there was a contingent out there that wanted to see him draft Clyde Drexler. You know, he played for Famjimma. He was a Houston kid. I’m sure you you understood the way they felt about that. And you know, you you came in and they they they probably thought, “Well, this guy’s a guy that just beat, you know, this guy we just took on Clyde and played him and and Clyde beat him and all that kind of thing.” Did it take a while to kind of warm up to you? Well, um I know coming in that uh every time I stepped out on the court that I had to be ready to play and play well because uh if you don’t, you know, see, I told you they should have took Clyde and all this stuff. And my whole thinking was and uh the night before the draft, me and Clyde sat in the hallway and we’re talking about just living, you know, tomorrow we going to, you know, fulfill our dream. So I felt as though if they picked Clyde that they would have been making a great decision, but I also felt that I was a good player and there was other players in the draft that were pretty good players that they could have taken, too. So you look at it now, Clyde’s a top 50 player. It worked out well for him and it worked out pretty good for me, too. But there there’s people today like I can’t believe that they, you know, uh took you over Clyde. And you got some people that said they make, you know, a good decision cuz they needed a complimentary player at that time. And uh I believe Clyde when he first came in when he went to Portland, they had pencled him as a threeman, but we know he turned out he was a great one of the greatest twoman uh two guards in the NBA history. So I was just happy to be drafted no matter where I went. I’m glad I came to Houston, but if id have went to Kansas City, I’d have been happy. And uh but at the end of the day it worked out well for both of us. Uh eventually Clyde made his way back here, won a championship and in a way you got us Clyde because they traded you and Jim for Jim Peterson for uh Thorp and then Thorp ended up getting dealt for for Clyde Drexler. So it all worked out and both of those guys were very critical parts obviously of them winning both of the championships. I wanted to also talk to you about the nickname because I remember as good as nickname as the dream was as a kid I loved you know the freak train. Where did that come from? I believe uh McCoy McLeammore is no longer with us. U it could have been Bill Orwell. It was like anytime you see him on the break, he’s going straight to the basket. And that was my way of thinking like, okay, if you’re going to draw a charge on me, you going to feel it. The next time you may move out the way. So, I was just one of those guys that like to get up and down the floor, like to finish strong at the hoop. That was my game, like running the floor, defending, and getting other people involved. So, I kind of uh embraced the nickname and try to live up to it in some form. Now, you had to guard some of the great small forwards in a golden age of small fords. Tell me of tell me I think all these guys you had to guard at probably at one point. Mark Aguire, Bernard King, James Worthy, Adrien Dantley, Dominique Wilkins, Xavier McDaniel, Larry Nance, Alex English, and Larry Bird. Was you were guarding all those guys, right? Absolutely. That was my job when I showed up here in Houston. I knew first and foremost that defensively it probably was one of the key ingredients for uh giving me the opportunity to be drafted as high and wind up in Houston. So I took pride in uh playing defense and my my um whole thought process was if the guys scored 30, they were supposed to score 30 cuz at that time the small forward position was the scoring position in the league. And what I pride myself on was watching game film, being a student of the game, and guys that are professional scorers, you’re just not going to stop them because every time down floor their teammates is looking to get the ball, the golf ball has to go through them. Like when we when I was with the Rockets, the ball had to go through Elijah and Samson. Everybody knew it. So I just try to take maybe one thing away from them, try to make them do things that they were uncomfortable and get a hand up and just stay with them. But my thought process was every time they touched the ball, the mindset was they were looking to score. Um, so you couldn’t relax defensively and it, you know, allowed me to make a couple of all NBA all defensive teams. And like I said, I took pride in defense. Who was the toughest of those guys to guard? Who did you hate going up against? I mean, I’m sure all of them had their problems, but it was the toughest. All of them had big games at one time or another. Um, it was just uh they they they scored in different ways. You had AD who could get you in foul trouble. I mean, you couldn’t even like breathe on them. They call a foul. he go to free throw line. You had Alex English who is just poetry in motion. You had Bernard King who, you know, was during the playoffs against the Celtics, two 50point games. It’s just it’s hard to say. You got Dr. Jay who was still doing this thing when I came in. But uh I I just like I said, I took pride and took uh took the challenge. I was just like, you know what, I have opportunity to play against these great players. Let’s see what I could do against them. And at the end of the day, I thought I did a pretty good job in the 10 years that I had a chance to play in the NBA. you get worthy and he’s got that lightning quick first step to the basket and you know he makes that move and he’s gone and you play those guys in the 86 Western Conference Finals. What what do you remember about that Western Conference Finals? Everybody remembers the Samson shot and of course and you you were the one who threw the threw the ball to Samson with the with one of the great plays in NBA history. Well, you know, I have a lot of respect for James Worthy. I had a lot of respect for all the guys that I had opportunity to play against for 10 years. I tell uh guys that I coach now, I said, “First and foremost, you have to respect the opponent cuz any given night, they could explode on you. They can have a good game.” So, anybody’s capable of just playing well. So, that year we had a chance to play the Lakers. I remember years past, you would always see the Lakers and the Celtics in the finals. And I would say, “Wow, nobody else can get to the finals.” So, here’s our opportunity. We’re supposed to be the young up and cominging team in the Western Conference. we going against uh the the Laker Dynasty Showtime and the matchups uh you know Worthy me and Worthy was kind of similar that we like to get out on the break but he was after Kareem he was their go-to guy in the post so I knew I had my hands full but we were just ready for the challenge we had to go through some growing pains because the first couple of years we had trouble beating the Lakers but that particular year I believe we won the last meeting against them and we were looking forward to you know have an opportunity to play them in the playoffs and like I said before, in order to beat be the best, you have to beat the best. And at that time, the Lakers were the best team in the NBA. And they pretty much handled us easily the first game and then the next four games, we beat them four games in a row. And at that time, we were taking the games one one game at a time. And then I look back on I was like, “Wow, we beat the Lakers four straight games to get to the uh NBA finals.” And that was a feat in itself. The future looked bright for the Houston Rockets at that time. Three years in, two years with Elijah, third year with me, Ralph. looked like we were going to be on top of the Western Conference for a long time to come. I’ve heard you say that Ralph, you weren’t surprised that he made this shot because he practiced that shot. Coach Fitch would always say you have to have a basic go-to move. If we call your number, a shot that you could depend on, it may not necessarily go in, but it’s going to give us the best opportunity possibly to tie the game or win the game. And he would shoot some shots like that over over his shoulder. It is not the prettiest shot, but when I we went out there for the formation and I saw how the Lakers were lining up, I was anxious. I was just had my hands ready like, “Please official give me the ball like right now before the Lakers realize that I have a direct line straight to Ralph.” And I I remember Worthy looking at Coach Riley, you want me to get on the ball? You want me to fall back in uh Ralph’s lap or how you want me to play it? And they were kind of in limbo. And when he gave me the ball, I was like, just just make a good pass to him. People inbound. One second on the clock. Samson and goes over. A miraculous shot. Michael Samson has given the Houston Rockets a trip to Boston for the NBA world title. And I got a direct line to him and it touched his hand. He shot it over his shoulder and it bounced up and it almost looked like when you slowed it down, Mitch Wiggins was like right there. Like he was like, “Man, I can tip this in. I’m glad he just let it go.” and it trickled in and for a moment it was like we getting ready to go to the NBA finals and it was just a great feat at that time to eliminate the Lakers on their home floor have a celebration out there in LA and I just remember when we were in the locker room celebrating then they had like a tunnel that connected the Lakers locker room to the visitors locker room and Magic came over there and congratulated us and told us good luck and wished us well and bring the you know championship back to the Western Conference. So, um, it was just it just one of those times that you remember for the rest of your life when you had opportunity to play in NBA Finals. Was that your favorite moment in the NBA cuz you won a championship with Michael Jordan, but maybe weren’t as involved with that team and you were much more a part of of what happened with the the Rockets in ‘ 86. I believe it probably is because like you said, as rookies, we came in there just come off winning 14 to 16 games and we won like 29 games our rookie year. Then we get Elijahan and then we make the playoffs. His rookie year, our second year in the league, we get knocked out by Utah. And you know how the NBA is or professional sports is if they can improve the team, whether it’s each year that they’re looking to do that. But Coach Fish came in with a like I said, a five-year plan. And we really never lost any of our core players. We, you know, after our first year was, I believe, um, Robert came back, Robert Reed came back, myself and Ralph, they picked up Lou Lloyd. The next year we picked up Mitchell Wiggins and John Lucas, um, and of course, Elijahan, and that was our core rotation right there. And then we picked up complimentary players that knew their roles that made us work hard in practice. We just had great team chemistry. And I believe to be successful at any level that you have to spend time not only on the floor but off the floor practice over where we going to eat at. We going to eat at Lubies or you know we had lunch together on the road. We may go to the movies but we were just a a tight close-knit family because you spend more time with those guys during the year than your actual family cuz you know from October to if you’re fortunate enough to go to the playoffs it could be the June that you spend time with your with your teammates. So you become close and it’s just a family atmosphere. Which Rocket were you closest with during those years? Uh me and Ralph because me and Ralph came in together as rookies. Actually, he was the first one that gave me a hint that I might be coming to Houston because I didn’t know officially until the night before the draft when Coach Fish actually called me and told me that they were going to select me tomorrow. But Ralph was uh we were in New York doing a little TV tour with the three networks, NBC, CBS, and ABC. And Ralph, myself, and Steve Stfanovich was up there. We were ironically in the restroom and he came in there. I was washing my hands and he kind of said, “I think me and you going to Houston.” Well, of course we knew he was coming that we going to Houston Tuesday. And I was like, “Really?” But I didn’t say anything anybody because I know that things could change. And my father always told me things until they happen then then you don’t know it’s it’s so so when Fitch when coach Fitch called me and told me that I was still kind of unsure because between the night before and the day of anything else something else could happen a trade or somebody could change their mind. So but when they actually called my name that’s when I knew that I was heading to Houston. What about Aake Elijah? Tell me what it was like to to be around him on a regular basis. Uh, when the guys ask you what it was like to play with Elijah, and I’m sure your players ask you, what what are the stories that that you think of? Well, when I first saw him, of course, I played against him at in the final four, the first thing that came to mind was, man, this guy is a great offensive player cuz, you know, they never really threw him the ball. And, uh, until after, you know, me and Clyde came out the same draft. The next year, you kind of saw his offensive skill, but like I said, Michael Young was still there. Michael Young was still there and Luan, that’s first thing came to mind. And I was like, “This guy has great footwork.” Um, offensively, I didn’t I didn’t know he could do that. But he was doing some things out there just on his talent and ability and being a student of the game. You saying yourself once he understands and learns the game more that he’s really going to be uh tough to to defend. He was already hard to guard just when he stepped on the floor as a rookie. And you just say, “Oh, this is this is going to be a problem for the league, the opponents for years to come.” But he was a hard worker. He loved to not only p compete in the games, he loved practice. He’s just one of those guys that when I later on in my career or my career was over, people would ask me, you know, was MJ the best that you know, you ever played with? I was like, MJ, no, no doubt, is one of the best players ever played the game. But I’m not going to, you know, slight take anything away from him, Elijah Juan, cuz he’s a great player. And you were you were there that game you were playing with him that game where against Seattle where he had about 48 and 24 something like that in the playoffs. I’m upset still upset about that game because we had homec court advantage. We lost the first two games in Houston and we went down there and won and that game you’re talking about. There was a missed call. I wish they had instant replay where me and Dream came down on a break twoon-one and I probably looking back I should have laid it up but I dropped it off to him and he laid it in. They laid it off the glass. They hit it. After it came off the glass, they wound up fouling him. He went and knocked down two free throws. But had they counted the basket, we would have came back here for game seven, which we felt as though if we could get it back to Houston that it would have been another match up with the Lakers um the next round. So, but that game was back and forth. He was incredible. we couldn’t they couldn’t stop him, but it was one of those uh situations where losing two games at home caught up to us and we made some mental mistakes that cost us the ball game and ultimately cost us the series uh not being able to get it back here to game seven, but I remember that game like we just played it yesterday. What do you remember about that playing against Larry Bird in the 86 finals and trying to figure out what to do with him? Well, I already knew it was going to be a handful and I remember me and Coach Fish talking. And he was like, in order for us to, you know, have opportunity to win this thing that I was going to have to play, you know, pretty good or uh play close to the same kind of stat line or numbers that Bird was going to play at. So, but I just went in there confident that I was going to play well, that we were going to play well, and we had a great opportunity to win that series. Uh, looking back on it and listening to a lot of the historians, they recognize that Celtic team as possibly the best Celtic team of all time. You’re looking at Larry Bird, Kevin McCale, Robert Paris, Bill Walton, Dennis Johnson. That’s five Hall of Famers and that at that time that was a 232 format. I believe that we had a great opportunity to steal game one. But when we came back here, we won two out of three games. We should have won all three of the games, but we missed the assignment at a c crucial point in the game in a pick and roll situation with Larry Bird and Bill Walton where we had already talked about what we were going to do had they pick and roll. We misread or misplayed that one situation and left Larry Legend open and he just drained a three-pointer. And like I said, instead of winning through all three games here at Houston, we we um we won two out of three, we went back to Boston down 32 and rest is history. But again, we felt as though that that wasn’t going to be our only appearance in the final. So, we went through it. You had to go through some things, but we were looking forward to possibly coming back to next year. How worried were you about John Lucas? I mean, how that you guys went through a lot with with the situation with him in ‘ 86 going into 87 as well. Um, were you concerned about his well-being as that’s going as all that stuff is going on? Well, at first being a young guy in the league um and not knowing what you know now as an older um person that first come to mind is how could you do this to the team? You know, we had great chemistry. We had a chance to do some great things together. But that that’s the selfish way of thinking. I didn’t knowing what you know now that it’s addiction and that people need help. you think about the well-being of the person more so than winning championships. And we talk about that now when I see him and he he comes up to me, he’s like, “Man, I’m with you guys, man. We got championship. We got more than one championship. Uh if I, you know, would have taken care of what I need to take care of.” And and I always tease him. I said, “And it’s not guarantee we would have got to the final cuz you know, you didn’t play a lick of defense, right?” And so we lost a great basketball player, but I tease him about his defensive inabilities, but he’s uh turned it around. I’m happy for him. We talk about it and, you know, older and more mature now. And like I said, I’m just glad that he he was able to turn it around. And do I think that we probably would have won the championship had he been with us? Absolutely. But, uh, it was just some of those things. You got to go through things and it was just unfortunate that happened to him, happened to the ball club. But, uh, today he’s doing well and I’m happy for him. We’re still friends, still close, and what he’s gone through is probably, you know, if he hadn’t gone through it, he wouldn’t have saved some other people’s lives. So, you have to think of it in those terms also. And so, you lose him and you lose Wiggins and Lloyd with the drugs. But was it is just as big as anything that that Ralph had the injury? I mean, what do you think was the was bigger that you know, maybe the difference between you guys winning some championships? Um, obviously all of them were were important, but you know, losing Ralph and and that special thing that nobody else in the league had with which was the Twin Towers and Ralph and Hakee, the injury to me might have been as big as anything cuz those guys would have dominated together and we’re so young and it would have been for years and years. Well, you look at the uh the league today and how it was back then that we wanted to get back on the court so fast because one, we knew that that our team needed us and the uh medical staff was, you know, they was pushing and things like that. But in today’s game, they’re just more careful with their superstar players. Like, okay, if it’s 6 to8 weeks, we might give you 10 weeks. Or you got rosters that are 15 uh players deep now. So, it was a lot of factors today that you didn’t have, you weren’t access accessible to uh back in the day when we played. But Ralph was already a thin guy. He would come into training camp like 265 opening day, he’d be down to 225. I was still scratching my head, but he was a hard worker. He he played power forward. He had to chase around guys like Tom Chambers, Carl Malone, and things like that. It was just unfortunate that after his first knee injury that it uh it kind of followed him throughout his um his career because when him and Dream were right together, unstoppable. I mean, they were, you know, they were working high low. They were they they kind of figured it out. At first, it was just a feeling out process. The first year we went to the playoffs, but when I tell you we played the Lakers in that third year, they kind of figured out, okay, whoever’s playing Kareem, we gonna turn them this way. And when they they turn them back that way, here come the the other towel. Bam. We going the other way for fast break. So, I mean, if you just think about it, if they both were to stay healthy, it it would have been something special. They still be talking about it right now. Just a couple years that they played together, you could just look at highlights where it was no pair of big men that that that could match up with them. I mean, they both were agile. They both could run the floor. They 20 both of them 20 and 10. I mean, two guys on the same team averaging 20 plus points and 10 plus rebounds a game. that I mean it just was special at that time. Do you look at the the Rockus part of your career as a that’s the main part of your career and and kind of it’s everything else because you’ve come back here, you’ve made Houston your home. That was a team that you got drafted on. You’d go to play for Dallas and uh Chicago and Sacramento and all. Does this feel like it’s it’s your main team still to this day? Yeah, they gave me my first start. They gave me the opportunity to live a lifelong dream. Um I met my wife here. It’s great city. I remember when when I got traded, that’s when you realize that it’s a business and it kind of hurt. But as you’re flying out to your new destination, you kind of perk up and said, “Yeah, I would just love to still be in Houston, but I’m still in NBA. What am I, you know, upset about? You’re still playing the game that you love to play.” And u it was an adjustment. Me and Jim Peterson went out there together. That’s why you got to make business decision. It still hurts because you have relationships with people. you do everything they ask you to do and then you’re looking in the mirror like trying to figure out what you did wrong to get, you know, get traded. But like I said, you look at the history of the game in sports that very rarely do you see one player stay in one place for a long time. I mean, you could count on maybe two hands, the handful of people that played their whole career with one organization. That’s just how it is. But it doesn’t make it any easier the first time you get that call or notified that you you’ve been traded. Last thing I wanted to ask you about is Michael Jordan, of course. And what did you learn about Michael Jordan that you didn’t know playing against him all those years playing with him? Well, when when you go from one team to another and of course every team has got a great player and you’re always wondering when you get there and as when I got Chicago does, you know, does he practice every day? You know, how is it going to be? So, I remember the first practice I went to, they had just came off of the dream the dream team. So, um, him and Scotty Phil gave them like the first couple of weeks off in, um, exhibition to try to give them some rest. But, uh, when they came back to practice, I remember just walking to practice and he’s like one of the first ones to practice. They practice hard. He doesn’t miss practice. And I’m like, call my brother up. I like he’s like, “So, MJ practice all the time.” I said, “Every day.” I said, “One of the first ones here. Matter of fact, practice be over. He’s still here, you know, to be the best.” I mean, he puts in the work. Um, he’s dedicated. He’s focused and when you see your best players, even like when I was in Houston with Elijah Sansson, you see your best players, the hardest workers are working hard, you can’t help but do the same thing. So if you see, you know, your best players being laid and or whatever they may be, then you got some guys who I mean, you know, Rodney late, so I mean, so I’m late one time, but but your best players, your hardest work is focused. Um, can’t wait to game time. um it just trickles down to the rest of the team. But that was a great experience. It’s just unfortunate at that time body had started breaking down and and I just remember the late Moses Malone was telling me they playing you too many playing too many minutes. But I was like I feel great. I just feel great. I want to be out there. He was like but it’s it’s taking a toll. You talking about 82 games, 100 plus games if you make the playoffs is you need to rest. Cuz even in the offseason, four or five years that we didn’t make the playoffs, I’m watching the playoffs. I might take a month off, but I might go home to the boys and girls club and some friends of mine I grew up with playing basketball. I’m out there playing in May. So you I’m not really giving my ch my body a chance to heal cuz I love the game so much that I want to continue to play it. But you could just feel that some things that you were able to do maybe two years prior to getting to Chicago that your mind is telling you the ball, go get it, but your your your legs wouldn’t wouldn’t get there. So I kind of told my brother even before the year start I was like physically if I you know don’t start feeling better this could be my last year you talking about at age 31. I just was one of those players that I knew if I wasn’t at my best that it it could be trouble out there cuz these guys they just too good. They not going to, you know, cut you any slack. Yeah, I know you hurt, but I got to I got to put it on you tonight. And I wanted to be at my best to kind of measure where I was uh in the league. So, it was one of those things I was happy to get 10 years in and it was just a great experience in Chicago because each organization has run different, each player, you know, team is different, but those guys were true professionals. They worked hard. Everything that uh I saw before I got there, championship runs and all that, I can see why they, you know, was part of a three. I was in third year of the first three peak. Of the three guys that I think of of your main coaches, you had some great wins, Denny Crumb and Bill Fitch and Phil Jackson. Which one do you take the most from when you’re coaching your guys? Who do you feel like you’re you’re using a lot of his stuff? I’d have to say Coach Crumb cuz Coach Crumb I’ve learned stuff from all of them and um I’ve learned that you have to be able to adapt to each each coach you play for. Um Coach Crumb was not a screaming holler. He told you what he expected and if you didn’t do it, you’d be sitting on the bench. So he knew playing time was the key for everybody. They didn’t like sitting on the bench. I can tell you a story. When I first got there, I wasn’t the hardest worker in practice, but when we scrimmaged and game time, I could perform in the game. And we played our first game against South Alabama, I’m sitting on the bench, like, “Coach getting ready call me.” And I know every time he looked down, I was looking back at him and he called somebody next to me and the final buzzer went off and I didn’t get in the game and I was sitting in the locker room. I was clearly upset and they were like, “Put your uniforms in the pile so I the equipment guy can wash it.” And I’m taking my stuff off like you don’t even have to wash my stuff. I ain’t even play tonight. And my brother sitting next to me, he’s like, “What’s wrong with you?” I said, “I can’t believe that coach didn’t put me in the game.” He’s like, “You thought you were going to play?” I said, “Yeah, I be killing in the scrimmages.” He’s like, “Yeah, you do.” He said, “But you lazy in practice.” He said, “I ain’t about the games.” I said, “You got to transform that, bring that in practice.” And I’m looking at him like, “Man, you my brother. You supposed, you know, you’re supposed to agree with me.” He’s like, “I’m telling you the truth. Don’t you want me to tell you the truth? It’s gonna make you better down the road.” So I got that message. He got hurt the third year and it took his injury. I tell people today it took his injury getting printed in my mind that I had to work hard each time no matter whether it was practice or game that it it just pays off down the road. But Coach Crumb was I never heard him swear or anything. Uh he had that program rolled up and he tell us some stories about when he was at UCLA with coach Wooden. You don’t have to be a screamer and holler. You can get your point across other ways. Um, Coach Fitch was, you know, from the military background and you ain’t got to like me, but at the in the end, if you if you you can look at some of the things that coach Male said that him and Coach Fitch didn’t get along when he got at Boston, but he understood it later on that he helped make him be the player, become the player that he was because he was so hard on him because he saw the potential in him. Same thing with Robert Parish coming over from Golden State. So, you just have to be focused and listen and learn. You can learn from everybody. You don’t think you know it all cuz even at this point it’s age 555. I can look at I listen to NBA TV coach Huie Brown and coach Papovic and and you hear them talk and talk about different players, different personalities. And I was like, “Oh, that’s a different spin on it that players are who they are. Don’t try to change them. You just try to, you know, communicate with them and and things like that. But when you try to change them into something that they’re not, that’s when, you know, it could cause problems.” Well, I wanted to just thank you for taking so much of your time with us and also thank you for all the great memories over the years with the Rockets. Uh, you know, it’s a the first team that I kind of fell in love with was was your teams and, you know, I have faint memories of the Moses Malone teams, but you guys are the ones I remember and uh just a lot of great memories and love following you and really appreciate you taking taking the time and good luck with you guys over here at Victory. Brett, thanks a lot. Appreciate it. All right, McCrae at midcourt looking. Goes to level. Nice pass. Level’s going to drive to the basket. He turns and reverse layup. No tipped in McCra with 1 second to go. Rodney McCrae tipped it in with a second to go. You’re listening to Houston Sports Talk. Hey, don’t forget to support us by subscribing and commenting on YouTube. You can always listen to us on Spotify, Apple, or your favorite podcast app. Tell your friends about us and share our show links on social media. Spread the word, everybody. Thanks for listening. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]

Bleav Host Robert Land asks Rockets Forward Rodney McCray about playing with Hakeem, Michael Jordan, Darrell Griffith & Ralph Sampson, playing against Larry Bird, the John Lucas suspension & playing for Bill Fitch & Phil Jackson. He talks about the huge upset over Magic’s Lakers & playing Phi Slama Jama in ’83.
(2:22) John Lucas Suspension
(4:30) Drafting McCray over Drexler
(8:30) Playing with Darrell Griffith (Dr. Dunkenstein) & for Louisville
(9:40) Phi Slama Jama vs. Doctors of Dunk
(10:45) 1st Year with Rockets & learning from vets
(12:14) Twin Towers
(14:14) Handling Drexler backlash
(14:49) Origin of Freight Train Nickname
(16:40) Guarding Alex English, Bernard King, Dr. J, Adrian Dantley
(18:50) Beating Lakers in ’86
(20:33) Ralph Sampson game winning shot in ’86
(24:00) Friendship with Ralph & being drafted by Rockets
(25:07) Playing with Hakeem
(26:35) Losing to Supersonics in playoffs
(27:37) Trying to Stop Larry Bird & Celts in ’86 Finals
(29:06) John Lucas drug problems & missed opportunity
(32:55) Was Houston special?
(34:10) Playing with Michael Jordan
(37:15) Which Coach did he learn more from?

Subscribe on Youtube, Spotify, Apple & iHeart
X @HSTPodcast

#hakeem #michaeljordan #larrybird