CONTENDERS or PRETENDERS? Bobby Marks & KOC Break Down the State of the NBA East

CONTENDERS or PRETENDERS? Bobby Marks & KOC Break Down the State of the NBA East

[Music] Welcome back to the Kevin Oconor show. Joining me today from ESPN in the sports business classroom, it’s Bobby Marks. Day one of a long journey. Uh but I always love coming out here for summer league. I you know I always ask cuz they do something about the heat and I come back and it’s always it’s always 109 in the summer. Have to come back in December during the NBA Cup and it’s like windy and scary deserty at that time at night. That’s right. But Bobby, let’s talk today about the Eastern Conference because we’ve seen some change in the East. Tatum torn Achilles. Tyresese Hallebertton torn Achilles. The team in the finals, the team that won the finals the year prior, likely not contenders next season. Things have changed in the Eastern Conference. And so I want to go through some of the teams in the East that have made moves, trying to make a push in the Eastern Conference. And I’m gonna throw some teams at you and I want you to tell me, are they still a move away or multiple moves away or are they already contenders? Okay. And so I want to start out with, you know, open-ended question for you though. Who do you think raised their chances the most in these? Is it Atlanta, Orlando, somebody else? Well, it’s it’s almost like you almost want to say New York because they didn’t do anything. And it’s like the I said it’s like the last man standing as far as where New York is as far as bringing the seven players back. uh their starting five and added uh Gershan Yaboselli and Jordan Clarkson in here. But let’s all right, let’s remove the Knicks from the equation. I would say Orlando uh just because and I know they’ve lost in the second round in the first round two years in a row. The Desmond Bane trade to go out and address a need as far as getting another score, a guy can shoot the ball. Tyus Jones, uh, a facilitator who, you know, certainly had an up and down year in Phoenix and every I think a lot of players had an up and down year last year in Phoenix. I do like where they are right now. I think a lot of it has to do with where they are healthwise with Beno and Fran Vagner and Jaylen Suggs. Um, but it’s interesting a team that I don’t want to say conservative, but has basically been kind of tried to thread the needle as far as drafting and developing and you basically kind of hit a wall and you said, “Okay, now we have to go out and be a little bit more aggressive here.” But I I would say it’s probably for me it’s it’s orando as far as that team that um I think they’ve done enough. I mean, if you told me they’re in the Western Conference, I would say, “Well, they probably have another move here.” And maybe maybe there’s a move as far as maybe addressing the center position a little bit. As far as I know they’ve got Wendell Carter there, but I do think how the Eastern Conference stacks up right now. I do think as of today they I think they can compete to get out of the Eastern Conference. I think they’ve done enough moves wise. It’s just a matter of what level do your best players actually reach. Does Bankro shoot the hell out of the ball like he did in the playoffs or is he up and down as a shooter like he was during the regular season? Does Fran Vagner continue to do everything but shoot? Does he continue to look like a guy that has the yips from three-point range? Cuz with Vagner, it’s weird. Like, he’s a great free throw shooter. He’s got great touch in the lane, but he just can’t shoot jumpers. And to me, I think the roster around their two best players is good enough in the Eastern Conference. But are Vagner and Beno in a position to be the best players on a title team? That’s a great question. And as far as when you have um two Max players and it’s the expectation is that they’re going to be two of the top 20 players in in the NBA here. I think I think the one concern if I had is I’d probably look at their bench a little bit here and you know you get you’re going into year three with Anthony Black. We haven’t seen Jed Howard at all. Um I would love another score off the bench. A guy that can maybe make shots for you. Those are certainly hard to come by. I think you’re from the front court depthwise I think you’re you’re fine because you’re bringing back Moag there who hopefully will be healthy. You’ve got Jonathan Isaac. You have Goa Batza. You have you’ve Yeah. Tristan D Silva. You have a lot of interchangeable um bigs there. But I do think if you wanted to go out and try to do something else and they’re limited how they do it. I’d love to go get another score, a guy that can, you know, we you always love that sixman that can come off your bench in the playoffs and give you you know Pay Pritchard for example. Sam, how a guy that can come in and and and score the basketball for you. Yeah. Yeah. And then you and then you don’t see him until game four like Right. He can they can win you a game there. Exactly. And I think with Orlando, that’s that’s the other big question with him. And but ultimately Desmond Bane, maybe Taius Jones, he has a bounceback year after, like you said. Weird year for Phoenix, but I still really like Taius Jones and Jaylen Suggs back as well. Hopefully he has another takes another step forward. So I think we both agree with Orlando. They’re already there. It’s just there’s still some lingering questions. And then there’s the Atlanta Hawks. They add Chris Travis Porzingis, Mquel Alexander Walker, Luke Carard. They draft Ace Newell trading down from 13 to 23 getting I think we I listen I I I from being in a front office, I understand the thinking. Yes. The logic. Having been out of the NBA front office for 10 years now, I assess it a little bit differently. I don’t have the blinders on anymore. I can look at the wide range uh perspect perspective and that is a well both moves by New Orleans. Well, just to take we went from Atlanta to New Orleans. A quick aside here, they trade Indiana’s first in 26 during the finals before Turner walks and then yeah, they trade that pick on draft night. Good for Atlanta though to get that. No, it is good for Atlanta and I think the biggest thing with Atlanta is like who are you right? I I remember doing TV about two years ago and it was them and Chicago were like pick a direction man like finally who they are and and what they did wasn’t reckless like they kind of knew they kind of worked around the margins they knew Boston was going to move off um Holiday and and certainly they get Kristoff Sporzing they move up they move back 10 spots and get Ace New I I really like they control Milwaukee’s first in the next two years for you know 26 and potentially 27 Alexander Walker Luke Canard, you had to address your depth in your back court. I’m intrigued as far as where we are we going to see maybe a little bit of a different version of Trey Young who was pretty good off really good offensively. Um certainly passing the ball last year, but now he walks into a situation where like he doesn’t have to be the guy anymore. And he and you also have you got Jaylen Johnson coming back. You have Zachary Rishet, U Dyson Daniels who we we we’re talking about right now. I the bar has been so low because it’s basically it feels like we they’ve been spinning the wheels that getting in and you know getting in as the eighth seed was okay and then we’re going to try it again and do it again and they did do that as far as last year or they lost in the the playin to Miami and now we’re looking at it like how do you make changes how do you go about doing it and sometimes when you bring in a you know I know an was there already but you bring in a different fresh perspective with him and um Bryson Graham and and Peter Denwitty. It changes kind of the perception as far as how you see your roster, who doesn’t fit, and what they need to go out and get. But you still worry about the defense of this team collectively. I I I do and I do think it’s going to it’s probably going to be a little bit of an adjustment cuz when you have just having gone through when you do have so many new faces, you know, four new faces trying to integrate that. I think that’s why training camp is going to be critical. But I think this is probably the best team um collectively that Quinn Snider has since he’s you know when he took over without a doubt here. And I think it’s and it’s built to you know where they are. You know Porzingis comes off the books and maybe they extend him or give him a new contract but I think it’s built like in a good way. I Trey is going to be the most interesting thing with me as far as he’s extension eligible uh 44 for 222. Um, is he still a max guy? Do we get in a position where how the rules are, is it okay to negotiate with all stars or do you have to write blank checks still? We lived in a world, oh my god, I’m going back to like I remember in 98 where basically you were giving out max contracts like lollipops. Here’s one for Van Horn. Here’s one for KDs. Here’s one for Marberry back in New Jersey here. And I do think how the rules are right now and I think that’s probably where bit Denver a little bit like you’d love to go back and with the Jamal Murray extension and be like we’re going to reward him but I’m not going to reward him at 4 for 212 mil whatever the number was you know because we don’t we think he’s a a really good top starter but we don’t think he’s an allNBA level player and instead of starting at 46 we’re going to start at 38. And I think that’s where teams kind of get themselves into trouble there. I think I I think so too. I mean, look, I mean, the salary numbers right now, I know you you should look at things from the percentage of the cap. Oh my goodness. The raw the raw numbers. Bobby, you get in trouble a little bit when you have the 35% guys. That’s the doomsday. And I think Shay who just signed is different because he’s 26, right? Like you you will live that with that. I don’t I’m not willing to live with um Bradley Beal at a 35% max when he’s your third bet. Like that’s where you get yourself into trouble there. So, the Knicks, are they still one move away or are they already there as a contender? I I think they’re still another move away with their bench. I I do, but and it’s but it’s going to be hard to do it because you look at it is such a rarity when you go to an Eastern Conference Finals and you fire your head coach and you had a little you kind of knew who you who they were and now you have Mike Brown coming in and no offense ain’t Sacramento and this ain’t even Cleveland back in 2008 or nine and I think is a really good coach but basically trying to instill you know what’s who what what are they going to be? Are they going to be the Sacramento team from three years ago? they going to be that Cleveland team that it was really good defensively when LeBron was like like who are you going to who are you going to be and I think that’s going to be the probably the biggest unknown as far as you know maybe not outside of the roster. Well, I would hope Mike Brown takes some pages out of that Sacramento playbook, though, because with Carl Anthony Towns, there felt like a lot of times throughout the playoffs and the whole year, some of his playmaking ability was just not being used. And with Tibs, that was one of the criticisms I also felt with when he had Isaiah Hartenstein as well. There wasn’t enough playmaking for him. So, I think that was a Tibs thing. Whereas with Brown, we see what he did with Sabonis. With Sabonis, it’s kind of obvious. That’s how you have to play with him. It’s almost I like go back to I I think it was game was it game five in or game five or game six in Detroit the game he hit the shot to win the series and it’s like the four possessions before that were awful and he hits the shot to win the game and we’re like oh my god this you know like how great how great is he and then but we also saw at the end of games in the Indiana series like when the the New York is at their best when the ball’s moving around when it sticks in his hand and it’s basically ISO it’s basically like, all right, it’s almost like Iversonish back in the ‘9s, which is fun. And I think I think New York is going to have to get away from that a little bit as far as how off how they evolve more offensively. And I think with the Cleveland Cavaliers, you know, there was rumors about them going for Durant this off season. They end up not getting Kevin Durant. They do get Lonzo Ball for Isaac Coro. They sign Larry Nance. They bring back Sam Merrill. They lose Ty Jerome to Memphis. Yeah. With the Cavaliers, do you think they are already contenders or are they still a move away? I I think they’re I want to give them the benefit as contenders because they won 64 games last year and I know they lost Ty Jerome. Um and well that’s that what that that’s that’s going to be the thing. So on what we see in the regular season, does that translate to the playoffs? Is it like between here, right? Like do they have that toughness that we that lacked? like it’s it’s okay when you’re going into Miami and dismantling them in four games, but when you took a punch against Indiana in game one and you know, can you get off the mat? I think that’s and you saw that with Oklahoma City like game four in Indiana down 2-1 down nine going into the fourth quarter like the championship teams like go through that adversity go through that Denver series here and that’s why what we see with with Cleveland right now and what they’re returning I think them and New York are the two best teams in the Eastern Conference but does that does a there’s a big difference between regular season and as far as what you get into the playoffs. There’s a reason why Garland, Mitchell arguably should be split up. Moy, Allen arguably should be split up. And I think it hits what you’re talking about. Kenny Atinson, did you see what he said after they got eliminated? He had like this great postgame presser like a 30 seconds in kind of almost unprompted. He’s talking about, you know, there’s like a mental aspect, a physical, like the mental controls the physical. And he’s like Indiana start to finish in these games, they’re running, they’re playing hard. and he’s like, I think we’re we’re missing that aspect. And he’s like, I think we can learn it, but they don’t have it. They didn’t have it. And I’m just I just don’t know if Garland Mitchell and then Alan Mobley is the right pairing for them to actually be a championship team, which is why they’re having these highle conversations about what to do. You know, it’s almost like and we live in this world, you know, with the aprons, right? And we live in it used to be like threeear window, four year window. Now it’s like we’re in these like mini windows. That’s why I never say like and maybe OKC might be a little bit of a different um animal here like you know the window is open for this team. They’re so young and and people were probably like I wrote the Pacers art offseason article and then Tyrese gets hurt and you got to change it because as far as you know now they’re not the favorites in the Eastern Conference anymore because they would have been here and it and it changes certainly the dynamics as far as who you are with the Pistons. Are they still a move or two away or Detroit’s interesting because they identified what they needed with around Cade and when they got out when they went out and got Hardway and they got Beasley and they got Shruder at the deadline here. They said we got to put some scoring around him, some shooters and they kind of kind of are using a different color paint, the same color but different players here. I thought they pivoted really nicely um in light of what happened with Beasley to go out and get Caris Levert and you get Duncan Robinson. you add some shooting and you mentioned Chaz Laneir who was at Tennessee and is more of an established player who’s been um you know in college four or five years and you get um Jane Ivy back from that injury who was playing really well before he had that injury here. Um I do like the components around them but I do think they’re kind of one move away. They’ve got all their picks now to go out and you know canvas the market here. They’ve got some expirings to you get the big Tobias number as expirings here. It’s a matter of like how much are you willing to kind of go in when you do have a window here because eventually Jason Tatum is going to get back come back and you know you trust Brad Stevens to retool around him and I heard I watched his newser and he says rebuild like it was offended like I no so you do have to retool and and you have Jaylen uh Brown and Derek White um and Hallebertton will eventually get be like you have like here is your it’s almost like when Jordan retired right in Mid not when when he went to play baseball in the mid ‘9s and everyone’s like here’s our window right we’ve got two years to go out and figure out before him maybe he comes back I agree a move or two away and you still need Kade to get better too Kade was not quite the guy in the playoffs that he was in the regular season you hope he grows from that and comes back next season is able to better perform in the postseason the Bucks they are a strange team I’m not even sure how to talk them talk about them exactly you get Giannis on speed stream today I never even heard of and he’s like probably, you know, I love Milwaukee in terms of staying, but they they add Miles Turner shockingly taking him from Indiana. They bring back Kevin Porter, Bobby Poris, Gary Trent, Ryan Rollins. They wave and stretch Damen Lillard. They get rid of Pat Pat Conson, Brook Lopez. So, it’s a year of change with the Bucks. Assuming Giannis is back, do you think they have enough? Are they already contenders or are they still a move or two away? I think they’re still a move away. They had nothing really to play with, right? They had the non- tax mid-level exception to go out and and play with. And I’ve been in that situation before when you basically are running out of options and you’re basically just throwing stuff against the dart board. And and I know waving and stretching a guy who’s owed 113 million is not ideal and you’re taking a $23 million cap hit for the for the next five years. But when you’re trying to retain a generational player, you will go out and do whatever you can. And as we’ve said, I’ve said before, then it’s going to be someone else’s mess to clean up three or four years from now. And listen, you could debate like was it was Miles Turner the right guy or could you have done but that’s for another day. Um, but I do think when you bring in Turner and you add you bring back most of your own guys except for Brooke with uh with Porter uh Portoris and you have Gary Trent and Ryan Rollins and um you signed Victorian Prince of course and you brought in Gary Harris and so I I do think there’s enough there to be competitive in an Eastern Conference. I I do think they are one move away, but what’s that move when you look at you’ve got three players, Giannis, Kyle Koosma, and Miles Turner, and then it’s everyone. There’s like there’s like 12 guys making $13 million less, and there’s like eight of them making $3 million, and you’ve got a 2031 or 32nd pick to trade in a deal, and you have no seconds. Like, what is that one move to kind of cobble together enough to go out and and do that? To me, I think it’s upgrading off Kyle Koozma. With Kosma, it feels like maybe this year will be different. But with the Lakers, what he turned into in Washington, developed a lot of bad habits. If we see the the version that we saw in the in the first round, like it’s going to be a struggle because now you’re I always say this, when you go through free agency and you sign eight players, like the goal is to hit on like go 500, right? Hit on four out of the eight um with that. And I think that’s and you don’t have a draft pick to kind of come in and and supplement some of that, but you’ve got to be have him um as you said, play like the version that we saw with the Lakers. Yeah. And I I think the Bucks I mean look at like you got to give them credit. They had really no moves to make. They got creative. I feel like they’re better on paper. And again, it’s sort of what we talked about with like the Knicks earlier. What is the system going to look like? Because I remember a year ago Doc Rivers uh well there was rumors that Doc wanted to play a more versatile higher pace style that like there was Brook Lopez trade rumors could he go to Houston a year ago at this time well Brook Lopez comes back they play largely the same way we didn’t see that but we did see at the end of the season triple double Giannis point Giannis playing with a bunch of spacers and faster paced guys around him if they play that way with Turner and Giannis in the front court and Andre Jackson and Gary Harris, AJ Green, all these guys. Like that gets interesting with what the Bucks could be. It be different than a lot of these teams the way they’re building right now. But with some tweaks, I I think I don’t think you can rule out that Bucks team. I don’t I I think what they saw was a little bit of a blueprint in that Indiana series, especially game five where they said, “Okay, if we tweak things some things around and we we swap out Brook Lopez for Miles Turner and we bring back Trent and we bring back Rollins, um we have no Lillard and some other pieces around. That’s a team that can compete with the team that just went to the NBA finals.” Tell me about sports business classroom which is happening right now in Vegas. You have this every year for how long now? Well, this is my I mean, it’s been going on I think for about eight or nine years. This is year two for me as far as being the lead instructor at uh sports business classroom. We start uh Sunday the uh 13th. We go until the 19th. We have sold it. Sure. Oh my goodness. It is when if anyone sees me here and you see me like at the when you see me at that Dairy Queen stand, you know, like it’s been we, you know, pull me away and say it’s going to be all right. We uh we sold out this year. We had 135 students sign up. We’re adding more. I think we might hit 140 which would be reckon number. Uh four majors. We added a fourth this year which is athlete representation. NIL uh salary cap media broadcast. Um we have uh scouting video analytics. So your four majors there. We’ve kind of changed the some of the um content up a little bit. We’re implementing WNBA this year. I want to learn about salary cap in the WNBA especially with a collective bargaining agreement. a lot of NIL stuff. People want to know as far as um how we’re how the the future is. We’re bringing in Rachel Baker from Duke and Wes Wilcox from the from I say the Wizards from you from Utah. Um and we have a lot of different fascinating programming and then we’re going to have a lot of people stop in pop in and say hi, but it’s uh I said this to um uh Warren Leg and Albert Hall and and Sergio um who are in charge of this last year. It’s one of the more rewarding experiences before because we eventually like we get I mean I just turned 52 years old like for me it’s going to be like the next wave of generational people who want to learn about that and I think the goal is we got to educate people like you know like educate people when Oklahoma City spends 800 million like it’s going to be like what it means to them and the apron and how they have sustainability and all these different things and uh I’m looking forward to get going on on Sunday. Hey, Bobby. I mean, you talk about educating. You do that better than anybody with a salary cap. I tell you what, I’m I’m going to give the MVP of the summer is my 19-year-old son, Jake. And here’s why. He taught me how to use Canva, the graphic design that allows me to put up all these pretty rosters and everything. Everybody didn’t like my whiteboard. You know, they said I had bad handwriting. So I we put up the graphics and it it kind of just gives you a little bit more of a visual as far as where uh where teams are and everything. The beauty of you know and you love this game and everything like that is that to to kind of show who this you know eventually LeBron and Curry and the older players are going to be you know gone but it’s going to be like that next wave of younger players and where these rosters are going and just kind of you know educate for more people to love what uh we’re what we’re doing. Bobby appreciate you joining me today man. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Kevin O’Connor is joined by ESPN’s Bobby Marks to break down the Eastern Conference landscape after major injuries to Jayson Tatum and Tyrese Haliburton, analyzing which teams have taken the biggest leaps and which others still have a move or two to make to be considered contenders.

0:00 – Welcome back to the Kevin O’Connor Show!
0:55 – Magic: Contenders or one move away?
4:34 – Hawks: Questions surrounding Trae Young
9:03 – Knicks: Can Mike Brown lead New York to a title?
10:58 – Cavs: Is Cleveland TOUGH enough to win the East?
13:36 – Pistons: Contenders or one move away?
15:24 – Bucks: Strange situation in Milwaukee?

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