Unfinished NBA Offseason Business for Every Western Conference Team

Unfinished NBA Offseason Business for Every Western Conference Team

What is up fellow sickos? I am Dan Valley coming at you with the one, the only, Mr. Mortensen of the NBA podcast fame, of Yahoo Sports fame, of Forbes’s fame, and of most importantly only fans celebrity. Mort is back from a muchneeded break while Grant is away on a muchneeded break. And we were trying to figure out what to talk about today. We were going to do teams that have unfinished business, but we decided not to short shift everybody. We’re going to do every team and talk about unfinished business that they have. Break it up into the East and the West. If you are watching this, per the title, it is the Western Conference we begin with. Before we get started though, first and foremost, we’re always working through some potential mic issues. Uh so if anyone’s not hearing us as well on YouTube is where it seems to be the biggest issue, let you know and I will adjust in real time. Um, but this is an impromptu stream, so maybe nobody’s watching this is all I would say. But second, and actually most importantly, Mort, how the heck are you doing? I am doing very, very well. Uh, as you can see, I finally have a slightly different background now because my wife started actually putting the the entire cupboard up and like or not, what do you call it? Like uh the whole thing. Yeah, closet. The closet. There we go. Thank you. Yes. I’m tired. I I’ve I’ve look I’ve been I’ve been doing I’ve been on vacation, Dan. I haven’t even spoken English all that much for a change. That’s really weird. Like I’m trying to remember words that just came out. Like there was a point in time during the regular season where I had an argument with my wife. Not a fight, an argument. And all of a sudden she told me, “You do know you’ve been speaking English to me for the past 20 minutes, right?” I was like, “What?” and I just switched switched over and now I’m having a hard time switching over to actual English. I think my mind and my brain just needed the the time off. So, I appreciate that. Good for you. So, anyone who doesn’t know that Mort doesn’t live in America. He’s from West Vermont. So, like the western part of Vermont, so that’s why he wasn’t speaking English. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. Um, we’re glad that you got a break. Uh, I will say I have one complaint about the background is it feels like you’re now adding layers to the equation. Not only are you wearing more clothes, but now you’ve actively put more clothes behind you. It kind of ruins the Only Fans mystique of it all. So, that’s my one complaint. I know it’s actually it’s been windy today, so it’s been very like it’s tempered weather, which I greatly appreciate because like it’s just been so warm. We we came back from Spain a couple weeks ago as well. Like, it’s it’s been a hot summer. So, for me to actually have it have it a little bit cool was nice. But I did know that by wearing a polo shirt, I would disappoint you greatly. I I did know that and I and I feel bad about it, DM. So after the show is done, I’ll show a little something something. Thank you. And look, I might get hot and bothered anyway because before I jumped on, our central air kind of was doing something finicky. Um all I can say is that thousands of dollars well spent within the past 18 months on uh something that’s a little bit finicky. Um that’s not why people are here to talk. We’re going to go alphabetically through the Western Conference. The one rule I set that I didn’t tell Mort about, but I’m sure that he could have guessed it based off the list I sent him, is we by and large, unless I just didn’t really find anything else interesting, were steering clear of like the rookie extension business. Like the Christian Brown, the Keegan Murray, like those dudes, we want to see if they get deals, but a lot of times that doesn’t really happen until training camp comes back anyway. Um, so we’re going to try and focus on other parts of Unfinished Business. And yet you have penciled in Tari East to talk about with the Rockets as an honorable mention with the Rockets. So that was not the main squeeze as you will see. Um let’s get started though. We begin with the Dallas Mavericks. Mort this one I mean speaking of almost training camp opening. PJ Washington can sign an extension. I think it’s now so for anyone who’s listening cat projections get a little weird. I’m just basing it off 7% projections. I know everyone else has 10% baked in, but I’m an alarmist by trade. So, it went up 7% this year. That’s what I’m penciling it in for for the future. It can be like four years 8687 million. Can’t sign it, I think, until August 29th. The Mavericks are one of the most fascinating teams in the league. More just when you look at the Kyrie Irving injury, they have Cooper Flag, they have Anthony Davis, they’re huge, they have enough offense. What are you doing, if you’re the Mavs, about the PJ Washington extension or just PJ Washington in general? Look, uh PJ is not an old guy. Like he’s 26 about to be 27. I think he is one of those very crucial players that you need when you have an old team and and like this is a team that’s trying to balance like the development of Cooper Flag and Derek Lively. Let’s not forget about Derek Lively, but at the same time. Yeah. Right. And like you’re still playing a ton of minutes to like AD Kyrie when he comes back, Klay Thompson, right? like there even Caleb Martin who’s only 30 I think but he plays like if he’s 34 so I’m just going to count that like they have this core of old old players and and sometimes you just need in prime guys to sort of like uh bridge that gap I think the age gap and that makes PJ Washington so so crucial because you know he’s not on decline he’s not necessarily on his way up like you probably expect a very similar level of production as last year and he was good last year. I think he was one of those guys who flew under the radar a little bit. Um when Luca got traded obviously that was all the the hoopla there then they win the flag lottery. So like the those have been the primary storylines driven out of Dallas where with PJ sort of flying under the radar. Uh yeah, I would I would probably try to extend him. The number is what’s curious, right? Because we’ve seen a lot of veteran extensions where we’re kind of going, “Oh, like the player didn’t get as much as we might have expected.” And that’s one of those consequences of a f first apron, second apron situation. So, I’m not going to sit here and say, “Oh, PJ Washington should get like 20 25 million a year.” Because I have no idea what the market is trying to like peck him at. um if he walks away with like 16 million a year, I would feel that was low, but I like that that is the world we might be living in. So the actual number is going to be pretty hard for me at least to to try to project. Yeah. So he’s eligible I this is what’s getting really freaky is that you look at his salary that he signed for as a restricted free agent with Charlotte, it’s below the league’s min uh league’s average and so he’s eligible for that 140% of the league’s average salary extension. Yes. I don’t know. I’m with you. I don’t know if he hit the open market in a red like this summer would he have gotten four for 90 I I don’t know just because of how few teams had cap space but I think next summer when you look at maybe a half dozen teams or more maybe having the ability to offer that I think four for 86 87 is probably more than reasonable and if I’m the Mavs I am going to offer maybe not the full four years maybe go three three years out on that might be the way but I think look especially this season if you’re looking to do something when you don’t have Kyrie Irv until January, February, whatever it ends up being. And you have Cooper Flag developing, he is someone who aside from Anthony Davis, aside from DLO, who in theory is oh, not maybe not create his own shot, but maybe punish some mismatches, do things as a driver. He’s like, so he I think you can make the case that despite their size, despite their defensive ceiling, he’s more important to them this season than he’s been the previous, you know, year and change that he’s been with them. I have a question for you about I probably don’t have an answer, but ask away. I think Well, I think you you might have an idea because we all know about AD is insisting upon I’m a four, I’m not a five, all that. Like PJ has primarily played the four, a little bit of five, very little bit of five, but like primarily four throughout the course of his career. Is this one of those situations where the Mavs should just basically say, “Well, you know what, Anthony, it’s positions are meaningless. It’s fine and just play him at center anyway, or should they try to put PJ down a slot?” Because that I would feel not great about PJ as a three where he has to run around and chase, you know, quicker athletes. I think he’s fine. I think he’s a a perfectly fine defender, but I do wonder if you make it the his full-time gig to chase three men or big shooting guards, for example, and have him run around screens. I don’t think you’re going to get the best version of him. So, like, how to solve that? So, I actually don’t worry about that as much, especially if you’re going to have Anthony Davis plus Gaffford or Lively as a backs stop for him. I think we saw a good amount of it last season anyway. But I think what you touch on that I find fascinating is you are leaving to me a lot of meat and potatoes on the table if you are saying oh Anthony Davis is going to be a four because you need to get to lineups where it’s not just AD and PJ Washington but it’s like AD and then Cooper Flag is your four because I think that’s where Cooper Flag might do a lot of his damage too on offense. So I’m totally in agreement with the point there for you. I think with PJ specifically though kind of whatever version of the lineup you want to see he might need to be the de facto three though when you look at them like in the minutes okay where both of your where there’s only one big and Cooper flag on the bench sure but like we’re not I mean I’d be shocked or I won’t be shocked but I’m assuming some some injuries have gone down in Dallas if we see like any PJ Washington at the five this year though that’s for sure agreed agreed that would that would be weird it’s just that like I feel like they’re a little topheavy So, I just want to see how this shakes out. They’re I don’t know. They’re kind of sneaky deep like Oh, sorry. When I meant to top heavy, I meant like the the big big positions. The top position. Sorry, that was a very bad wording on my part. Well, it’s also just like Naji Marshall is what like like they are. So, I think you could get to lineups where just like there’s no point guard like it’s Cooper flag and then everyone’s just like it’s Naji Marshall and PJ and then AD and then whatever big you want. I don’t know what that looks like offensively, but I think defensively that could be an absolute terror. So, we’re both in agreement. He should get an extension. If you had to predict before we move on, do you think he signs one? Or I’ll say, let me say this. I’m going to set the overunder that he gets a three-year or a four-year extension would be my prediction. I’m actually just going to say under right now. Um I hope I’m wrong though because I like PJ. PJ should get paid. He’s a good player. But maybe the Mavericks are looking at this situation and going, “Yeah, we need to we need to make sure that that position is clear for us moving forward because of lag.” Now, good point. You you could just extend him and then trade him later, though. Well, that’s what I was going to bring up is that if you’re the Mavericks, are you reticent to extend him now because then he wouldn’t be if you’re giving him more than that 20% raise. So maybe that’s the middle ground is do you just try and offer the 120% that you could still trade him this season? Otherwise, if he’s signing at August 29th, he won’t be trade eligible this season. And we don’t know. I’m not saying Dallas needs to go out and make a blockbuster move, but he’s one of their best assets as both a player and an expiring contract if they want to go do anything on the trade market. Well, honestly, do you really need to trade him this year in that case? Like you could make a reasonable argument that he could he could spend the entire year in Dallas and then you could just flip in the summertime. Legend fanboy 101. PJ to the Lakers. I mean, if they want to trade for LeBron James, he’d be like a nice salary slot to to shoot. That’s the only way I would think that happen. I don’t think LA is going to give Dallas another first round pick for PJ Washington. But Right. Right. That’s also they don’t need the like the Lakers don’t need PJ like as long as LeBron and Luca like PJ Washington’s not someone and Brewie is there they they don’t need him. No they don’t. Next up because we’re going alphabetically is the Denver Nugget. So I kind of have two questions for them because one I don’t think people are going to appreciate except for maybe Mort. Are they gonna duck the tax we’ll start here Mort before the off seasonason is over? They have until the end of the year to do it but just based off what Spo has this at. Looks like because of Cam Johnson’s, not strictly because, but because of his likely contract incentives, he is they are going to be a little bit into the tax like right now it’s like about 400,000. Yeah. Yeah. So, is that something you just duck now to get it over with? They also were and hat tip uh Ryan Blackburn uh I think he did at lockdown nuggets for pointing this out because of the way they did the vow and trade with him going into a trade exception. They’re actually not hardcapped at the first apron. Now, I think that’s a lot of like all pomp, no circumstance type deal where I don’t expect them to actually I think they’re going to duck the tax eventually. I think that’s what they’re going to do. Yes. Um, but they do have a lot of different ways that they could go because of the way they did structure their off season, right? So, what we have to remember here is this isn’t just a payment of Yeah. So, what would their tax bill be like a million, 1.2 million, something along those lines according to spot track? Uh, that that is not the full calculus. the the full calculus is what you’re giving up in not getting in from taxpaying teams, right? Like that. So, so what would that be like 11 12 million that you would get in by just not being a tax team? That is ultimately the big math thing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team that’s like 400k over the tax line who just didn’t dodge it. But I do have a theory. That’s the Pelicans area where it’s just like they’re ju they’re like always five million bucks or less like away from or into the tax. Doesn’t it always feel that way? That’s a good point though. Yeah, they actually and I think as we record this Pelicans might be like five and a half million dollars below the tax line. So that actually fits. But like I do have a theory because last year Don Holmes didn’t play obviously. Was that the was the was it the ACL or was it an Achilles? Achilles. Yeah, the Oh god, that was the worst one. He looked good in summer league though. Yeah. So if he gets regular minutes, that’s when I think you’re trying to see if there is a taker for seek Nashi. And like I I have this sneaky suspicion that they’re actually going to try to place Seek early on in the season just to see like can he just produce for a few games? Like, can he string together games where he produces at a certain level? Not to like, oh, let’s make it part of a rotation, but like are there any takers? Like, anyone, anyone on the line, anyone? Fueler, come on, go get him. Do you So, I So, one to add on to what you were talking about as part of their calculus, the other thing they’re thinking about with the taxes, this is just another year where it doesn’t start the repeater clock. And so, if they’re looking to kind of stay out of the T, like that’s a big deal. So, they are going to d the tax What they could do is wave and stretch Zeke Naji by I think it’s August 29th is the date this year. So they would just have like $3 something million on their books for the next seven years. Then you comfortably duck the tax. I would be vehematly against that. I just don’t I know it’s a small amount, but as look at what we’re talking about right now, these thin margins matter, especially for these really good teams. I want to ask you, I think Nuggets fans would be against this, but I’m curious if even the team that I’m suggesting it would be for this. Would you consider doing something like Payton Watson and Zeke Naji for just IO Dumu? Is that enough for the Bulls to say we’ll take on the rest of Zeke Naji? Pton Watson’s in a contract year as well. I think Watson’s the higher upside player, but I think I Dumu is better right now. He will probably be cheaper in his next contract as well. Who do you think says no to something like that? Is as that being Signash and Payton Watson for IO? Yeah, that’s like the Bulls take on a bunch here, right? I mean, they take on it’s like 10 million versus 7 million or whatever ends up being or maybe it’s 12 million versus whatever you could game it to make the the math work, but the Zeke Naji like this year they even after they resigned Josh Giddy, the Bulls should have a ton of wiggle room under the tax. It’s, oh, do you want three more years of Zeke Naji on your what you’re really doing here, you’re you’re actually paying the Bulls Peyton Watson to get off Naji, but also to get Iodum, right? Exactly. Um, I don’t hate that. I don’t I I will say I Pton Watson is still intriguing to me. He really is. And uh I I think I think the jury has been a little premature in just saying that he’s not a guy. U like I do like IO don’t get me wrong and next to Jokic I think he’d be a lot of fun. He’s he’d also be insurance well a little bit of insurance if Jamal is like inconsistent over a stretch of the of the regular season. Like you can sort of say okay we need consistency at the point guard position. Let’s move Jamal a little bit more to the two over the next couple games where he’s not handling the ball as much where his play isn’t as as dynamic. So there are some interesting parts there. Payton Watson is a big name though. Like if you could if you could somehow convince the Bulls of doing it with someone else. Maybe Strawther. That’s that could also be interesting. You could offer your 20 32 second still. So if that Strawther is on the table, I mean they’re taking on less money in that scenario too. But I don’t like Iowa’s a really good player. My other question was like or move that they might need to address is do you think they need another backup like a backup point guard or a backup ball handler here or do you think just the combination of okay Joic exists we can run some stuff through Aaron Gordon we have Jamal Murray we have Bruce Brown do you think that that’s it’s enough to be a good team don’t get like the Nuggets are going to be no worse than the second best team in the west I think maybe third depending how I feel about the Rockets right so so the addition of Bruce Brown to me unlocked a ton because like he knows a lot of these guys like there’s a level of comfort there. I think he’s a better ball handler than people um you know making an outs and that’s because over the past two years he he went for the bag and that’s fine like I don’t think we should at any point blame him for going for the bag but he did and we never really saw like the Bruce Brown that we saw during the championship here in Denver. Um, I think with him coming back, we’re going to be reminded, oh, this guy is good. This guy can do a bunch of things. And I wouldn’t even rule out Strawther if they keep him around as another guy who can handle the ball. Like, not as a as someone who’s like a table setter and like will average seven assists or something, but he’s pretty decent on the ball as well. Like he can dribble the ball up the floor, he can initiate some of like the simple stuff like he can throw an entry pass, he can do some of those things. Like I I think they have enough. Oh, did we forget about Jaylen Picket? Like he’s still around, right? I mentioned him. I I had some moments last year and I do find him more intriguing than Tyson. I think so. I would I think I’m I mean I’m going to be fine with them standing Pat if that’s what they do. If you told me that they’re going to use Strawther like that, if they’re going to give Christian Brown some more opportunity on the ball, I think I like that idea of the experimentation. Um, if that’s not necessarily their plan, they do have Valenunis, too. Like you can run some stuff through him. This still feels like this doesn’t do anything for their tax situation, but they could do it. This feels like a really good Malcolm Brogden team to me. So, something like that. It doesn’t even have to necessarily be the trade, but I think I would like to maybe it’s you go through the season and then you look at the buyout market when that happens. But I think that I don’t know. I find buyout editions tend to be overrated. I’ll even be guilty of romanticizing them, but so do minimum signings. So, I’m sitting here, oh, like Malcolm Brockton could be the answer. Uh, you can’t guarantee him a huge role. I think I’m just lower on the Bruce Brown show than you because like from what I saw of him these past two seasons, and I know he was injured a lot, right? I just, man, I I don’t and I he doesn’t need I think people are going to focus on the shooting. He’s already shown he doesn’t need to hit the three ball to be an impactful player, but I’m not sure that they’re getting the Bruce Brown that they had in 2023. And so I think it’s fair for them to sit here and say, “Look, that was a minimum contract. We’re going to wait and see how that pans out.” And that’s to that’s totally fair. The expectation shouldn’t be through the roof anyway. The value is never going to be bad. But that’s why I kind of find myself unless you think Picket is ready or you want to see I didn’t even think about Julian Strawther to be honest with you. That’s a good call out. Um, but unless you think he or Christian Brown is capable of shouldering more, but I could also see how you might feel as the Nuggets, well, like Valenunis also allows you to paper over some stuff by being able to run things through him. Yeah, they they have a lot of options here. I’m I’m not terribly concerned about anything. I do have a question, one question before we move on. Technically, if they were to wave and stretch Hunter Tyson, would that achieve going under the tax? So, I mean, yes, but I don’t know if it would they would probably have to sign like a zeroyear rookie with experience to like kind of I’m trying to like I think you want to get because they have 13 guaranteed roster spots. Oh, no, they have 14. Excuse me. Yeah, 14. So, like if you did So, what’s two over three he’s owed? So, that’s like you’d only have like 350k left to fill that out. So, I think that Yeah, you couldn’t do that. Could you do you think that there would be a team that would say that would just take Jaylen Picket or Hunter Tyson and then you can sign a rookie with zero experience and that’s like you save like a million.2 bucks that way. 1 2 bucks 1.2 million. I’m sorry. No, but like there there should be some teams that are like a couple years into the rebuild. Like we’ve seen the Wizards just be like, “Oh, you’re going to just give us Malai Brennham more or less?” Yeah, we’d be down for that. Not Blake Wesley though. Bye Blake Wesley. Bye. Right. True. Oh no, he went to Portland. But like like the Wizards are one of those teams who are like willing to take gamles right now. So why not? Um yeah. A couple questions here. Jason Tim rated Jamal Murray as a top 25 player in the league. Do you agree? Wow. Okay. Like I don’t think I have like a top 25 like just instilled in my brain right off the bat here. Like the optimal optimized version of him is like easily tw top 20. Like easily. You think Jamal Murray’s easily top 20? No. No. When he’s like optimized, like the optimized version, right? Like when we when we’re seeing him ranking, let’s rank NBA players based off their optimized for where they would rank. If Ben Simmons had a three-point shot during his No, no, no, not that’s not that. No, no, no. Not not theoretical upside like Yeah. Right. Like Okay. So, for example, like before the was that was the ACL too, right? Uh for for Jamal, that wasn’t in Achilles. I think that was the ACL like before the ACL uh the year before like 2021. Like yeah, like where he was headed before he had the the ACL tear. I I I’d feel pretty comfortable if we took that version of him and put him into today’s league. We’re looking at a top 20 guy. Like, he was so influential. It was crazy. Can he be I don’t I don’t know. This season would have been rough, too. I’m not staring at the list, so like this just feels disingenuous. My my gut reaction says no on balance. Yeah. Now, yeah, now probably not. Um in the playoffs, like if you just ranked everything he’s ever done in the playoffs, he might just be by that. Um we have a couple other Nuggets questions. This is This is why I love the live streams. Could they just trade Jamal Murray to the Bulls? That is from Hind. I mean, they could, but for who do you want from the Bulls? Yeah. Oh, wait. Okay, let’s switch up. Yeah, that’s Patrick Williams. Are you ready? They want the Patrick Williams flyer. We always We always do Bulls trades some for some reason. So, that’s 20 or sorry, 46 million outgoing. What are we looking at? What What What are we giving What are you signing trading for Josh Giddy? That better not be what? No. God, no. We want Denver to be fun. Um, I just I don’t know that Chicago I mean they have You don’t want Isaac Coro. I owe for sure, but that’s 7 million bucks. Like what is the other 30 that’s like coming out of there? All right. You want one of their youngsters? Would the Bulls be a team that’d be like, “Hey, here’s Modest Buzzelis in the Jamal Murray trade. They’re dumb enough.” Yeah. Yeah. But I don’t even think like Jamal Murray is so important to Denver. Like that’s just He is. Yeah. I I mean I guess I I think the people who who like are are looking at him and basically saying, “Look, you’re a negative asset.” That’s that’s just a bridge too far for me. Like we can talk about him being overpaid. Sure, I’ll I’ll talk about that all day long, but like people are are reaching this point where like, how can they dump him? I’m just like, really? Really? That where we that’s where we are with Jamal. Well, would you the one I had brought up and I think some Nuggets fans hated it, some found it interesting. Would you trade? There’d have to be other moving parts, but if you’re the Nuggets, would you trade Jamal Murray for LeBron James? Like, do you appreciate the flexibility that comes with James’ expiring contract and while he’s still like LeBron and he’ll still, you know, LeBron LeBronish? Yeah. LeBron adjacent. Yeah. Um, I mean, look, I I don’t see why not because you’d have, like you said, the future financial flexibility. Like I don’t understand why the Lakers would do that like LeBron or Jamal. Who could Jamal Murray be pretty wicked on? I mean the thing about Jamal Murray for all the criticisms and there there are many. He’s shown that he can play off of all these different like off of Joic for sure. That’s true. No. Yeah. Like he’s not a point guard to me. He’s like he remember how he came into the league like as a fully blown two guard and then he was kind of pigeonhold into the one. I mean, a return. Alls I remember is that he could have been drafted by the Knicks. They would have traded him promptedly, but uh that Melon trade was trade. Um CMBB is garbage. I feel attacked because I like Colin Murray Boil. Dan, can you admit that the Nuggets are overrated, Porter is better than Cam, Bruce’s Wash, Yonas is bad at defense, Tim is bad at defense, and I don’t trust Murray anymore or Brown to make shots. So, I think Whoa, stop, stop, stop. You don’t trust Christian Brown to make shots. Do Did you see his field goal percentage last year? Especially with Joic off the court, he shot like 60% on twos. Like I I love that your hands are still up, right? Like that that that one bothered me. Like like he was one of the most efficient like perimeter players in the league last year. What are we talking about here? Like that’s I don’t think the Nuggets are being overrated. I do think and I’ve actually gotten a little too I think I’ve gotten too defensive and part of this about the Nuggets off season. I think it’s being overblown and I’ve gotten some arguments with fans which mostly my fault. Need to keep my emotions in check sometimes better. I just don’t interact with fans outside of the point the the I like interacting with people but I’ve been a little over the top of the Nuggets I think because this isn’t fans’s fault. I don’t like the way it’s being spun with the flexib like you could have signed Bruce Brown and Tim Hardway Jr. without making they were minimum contracts. I’ve seen it framed too much that like oh this opened up the no like those players could have came for that price anyway. I’m not a fan of like now they can sign guys on the buyout market making more than the mid level. You don’t get to say that until they do it. And you also could have done that. Like you can do that in the offseason regardless of what apron you’re in. Like that was one of the loopholes. So I think I just haven’t appreciated the framing of it. I think the Nuggets off season was more than defensible bordering on I think they’re a better deeper team. I still need to see like I’ve dug more into the Cam Johnson fit versus Cam Johnson versus Michael Porter Jr. I would still maintain that the apex of Michael Porter Jr. is going to be better or more valuable than Cam Johnson, but we don’t know like Michael Porter Jr. was very rarely if ever at that apex, right? That I was about to say that that’s that’s the opt you’re now you’re talking about optimized versions. Well, look, that’s my I think that’s my whole thing is just like I I might be wrong about I don’t think they had a bad I just I think what it all comes down to is I believe if I was trading my unprotected draft pick seven years into the future, I would have wanted more of an immediate bump than going from Michael Porter Jr. to Yonas Valenunis and um Cam Johnson. I that’s just where I land on it. People are free to disagree. Um, but I like I’m I’m seeing some maybe the Nuggets don’t have defense in the chat. I’m not going to throw all them up here. There’s a lot of comments. I actually came we’ve talked about this. I came away from the playoffs last year like kind of more sold on what Denver can do defensively, right, than offensively. And so I think Yonis Valenunis fits that. I think the Cam Johnson self-creation stuff, I think that’s a little bit overblown. I don’t think that that one I don’t think they’re going to rely on him for that. And I don’t think that that’s ever been his like forte. It’s I think it’ll help that maybe he’ll have like you see some of the defensive matchups he’s going to be going up against like maybe that’s what I’m not um like properly valuing enough. I think we just I think it’s more of a discussion where people have seen like I’ve seen A+ off seasonason it was perfect. I just think there’s more of a discussion to be had. That’s all I’m saying. If this is and I’m also not a fan you’re just asking questions. That’s what you’re doing. You’re just asking questions. Yeah. I guess I’m expressing doubts. But if you believe that they wouldn’t have kept Christian Brown had they had Michael Porter Jr. on the books, then yeah, look, that’s fair. I would call that maybe cheaping out a little bit. Also, we don’t know what he’s going to get paid. Like, maybe he’ll get extended. Again, rookie extensions aren’t a part of this discussion. I think their offseason was, we haven’t done our grade yet. I’m sure I’ll grade grade it semi-favorably, but I think there’s been a disconnect to what my actual view on the Nuggets offseason is because I find myself pumping the brakes on like I mean, look, even Rome 8180 in the chat where it’s like, yeah, Bruce Brown healthy and back with Joic. Um he’s Yeah, it’s there’s just a lot of questions here is all I have. So that’s fair. Um anything else on the Nuggets from you more? No, we’re doing We said five minutes per team. We’re off to That’s why I said no, Dan. Well, there’s nothing there’s not much new to add here. We get to the Warriors. Uh so Mort, what happens with Jonathan Kaminga’s restricted free agency? So I I’ve actually written about this over at Forbes. Uh I think so stay with me on this. I understand that the Warriors are like, “Oh, we don’t want to pay you 30 million a year because we might get stuck with with that contract and with the cap being projected to 7% increase next year instead of the the expected 10. What are we going to do about it?” Uh, my take has been shut up. Just shut up. What the hell? Like this guy. Wait, who do you want to shut up? I’m the the Warriors. Look, he’s he’s what, 22? Um, he’s hyper athletic. you know, he’s extremely productive. I understand the fit isn’t great. I understand there are questions about him as well because it’s a two-way street. Like, this isn’t just on him. This isn’t just on Steve Kerr. Both of those guys have made errors over the course of their four years together. But like if if the Warriors do want to give Steph, you know, the the last few years of being competitive, then you know, toying with this situation too much, playing with your fruit too much, that’s a bad tactic. Because here’s the thing, Kuminka has the qualifying offer of 7.9 million. If he takes that, he’s gone in 2026. And you just resigned or sorry, extended Jimmy Butler. They’re still paying Stephen Courier through the nose. Draymond Green is also earning a pretty penny. Like there are a lot of dollars on those books. So you can’t go out in free agency in 2026 and go, “Oh, we’ll just find a replacement for Jonathan Kinga on the minimum market.” No, that doesn’t exist. That is a very, very bad strategy. So my take is pony the f up and then trade him if that’s what you need because then you can at least get something back. Are you really that afraid that a guy next year at the age of oh a very advanced 23 will have no trade value? Like who are you kidding? I’m not saying pay him pay the man you know 30 million but apparently they’ve offered him two years 40 which is like so like split the difference. Give him like four years 100. That’s not splitting the difference. That’s No, no, but like the annual like the annual, you know what I mean? Like 20 to 30, like that’s what I’m talking about. Like, no, I I hear you. But you know what I mean, though? Like on the annual salary, like 25 million a year, like if you’re scared to do that if you’re the Warriors, you’re just not thinking long term. I’m sorry. I I think I agree to some extent, but I also disagree to where it’s like, what is he I don’t like if he’s not Here’s the problem. You already said he’s not a great fit for that roster. Yeah, right. What is he’s not going to be a better fit overnight next year. So there’s a chance his trade value on his next deal declines and so you are taking a big risk. Now you could if you wanted to say like if it was three for 70 and then let’s say there’s a a team option on the third year. Maybe that’s a way to get this done and then I would be totally in favor of that. But I don’t look at like Jonathan Kaminga has the upside of a fringe all-star. I will recognize that when you look at his offense, right? And several teams will talk themselves into that. That’s my point. You don’t find it to be like a little red flaggy though that they it wasn’t just like what were the offers for him around the trade deadline or that he wasn’t critical to like getting the Jimmy Butler deal over the hump then that’s like I’m skeptical as to what team and like you could say other teams will talk themselves into it. What are these other team like there like the Nets who had all this cap space and have room for upside like they haven’t seemed like they’re interested in Kaminga. The Jazz have that huge trade exception. We haven’t heard them as like a destination getting involved with Kaminga. Did you see who the Nets drafted in the first round? Did do we trust their talent evalu evaluation right now? Oh, I mean, what is a I look I I I was being a little bit of a smartass with that one, but Jesus, I I hated their draft. I hated that all that. So, I’m not putting that much stock into the Nets going, “Well, we don’t really want.” My other point though is just like so we know the Kings might be interested in Jonathan Kaminga and that doesn’t prove anything. It’s the Kings, right? So I’m I’m just I think I understand both sides of the argument where Jonathan Kaminga fancies himself a future all-star and I think that confidence is important. I think he’s shown that upside, but there’s too many holes in his get like as a shooter, as a passer, as a rebounder, as a defender. And so I understand what the Warriors are doing here. Now I don’t really like seeing players get squeezed. That’s also just how restricted free agency is litigated. Like that. That’s why it’s set up the way it is. If maybe one of these like CBA negotiations that’ll be talked about more. Um, wow. Curry clears Kobe. I’m a Warriors fan. I I want to trade him to the Bulls for IO Jaylen Smith in second round picks. I mean, that’s like more I don’t hate that. I don’t hate that either. But if you’re shaking your head to that, you can’t tell me then that Jonathan Kaminga is like a $25 million a year player if that’s the return that you’re willing to accept. Well, no, no. Look, what I’m saying is there are plenty of teams out there who suddenly have to change or pivot in in the way like remember the way the teams are structured right now. Like some teams are rebuilding and some are retooling and some are trying to uh be competitive. those teams are not locked into being in that same state 12 months from now or even 11 months from now or even 10 months from now or even at the trade deadline. So at some point teams are going to pivot. Some teams are going to be like well we need something like we always know in the middle of the season there there’s one team, two teams, three teams that are like we could really use something. We could really use a a a young scoring punch. Lo and behold here’s Jonathan Kinga now trade eligible and right there for the taking. I understand the skepticism of why wasn’t why weren’t there more offers for him, you know, last trade deadline. I’ll tell you why. Because this restricted free agency was looming and teams just did not want to get into that. Remember how teams are always more inclined to trade for guys when they know what the salary is. They are less inclined to go out and trade for guys when they don’t know what the salary is. As soon as they know what Kuma is going to earn, they’re going to sit there and say, “Oh, he’s either super cheap. Oh, we have him pegged as being more expensive than what he really is. So, like, let’s go get him. I think if they sign him to 25 million a year or if it’s even better if it’s like 23 or 24 um and and even better if it’s on a flat rate, Dan, this is something you and I have talked about before like the flat rate that moving forward. That’s that’s probably a big argument for a lot of teams. I would be shocked if you didn’t have like five or six teams standing in line going, “Yeah, we want to be in the Jonathan Coping business.” Interesting. I think honestly I think that they should get done with like a three-year deal and then the latter is some I would honestly say I think the Warriors have the leverage to get a team option. I’d be want to give him more money to keep like maybe it’s three for 75 even but the second the third year is a team option just because the Warriors to me are taking on more of the risk here just because there’s no yeah there might always be teams that are talking themselves into Kaminga but they might be talking themselves into Kaminga at a cut rate because he hasn’t performed up to snuff in Golden State and I I know everyone can point two way street though two-way street but I’m just saying like people like to point to look at his average when he plays more than 30 minutes per game and it’s like he would have more of those 30-minute games if he was more consistent on the stuff they need him to do, right? Like they don’t necessarily need another on ball scorer right now. Maybe they the rim pressure, sure, but like when it comes at the expense of like playmaking and maybe shooting and you’ve taken a different direction, I think I understand I understand both sides of this. I ultimately think it’s going to get done with like three years and then probably a team option. I I don’t even know that I would guess like do you think the average annual value is going to be 23 or higher? That’s the number you just threw out that I mean what I think is it’s going to be lower than that. What I think would be fine is if it’s high or that but yeah like I just wanted to wrap that up because when you’re trading for Jimmy Butler um and and you know when you also have Draymond Green uh Oh, I appreciate that shout in the comments. Well, can I I’d like to interject. MJ is also your initials. Is that you? Oh, in the in the chat. I didn’t even see the username. No, no, no. Well, my initials will always be MSJ, by the way. Always. Um, can look MJ? That was just too vague. So, even as a kid, I was like, “No, no, it got to be I just thought it was some stealth.” Like, I I I was No, but I appreciate it if someone went in there and just like created that account to make me look like a narcissist. Good on you for doing that. That you went the extra mile to make me look like like a damn fool. I appreciate that. Um, no, but like Draymond, Jimmy, we know those guys aren’t floor spacers, right? So like you’re not exactly help I think we do um like you’re not exactly helping the young man like you’re not exactly doing everything in your power to like give that guy you know a a a a good pathway to start and you know what that’s unless you were planning and I mean they did play him at the floor but like when you look at you’re playing Dre with Cavon Looney until Quinton Post came in there it’s not like you had a floor space in quote unquote five to say oh we can try and develop Kaminga as a as a three. So that that’s fair. I don’t think that they’ve necessarily done right by him, but uh really quick on the Warriors. Do you guys know when we’ll get the news on Horford and Melton? And where would you rank us if we if we do get them? Um you’ll get the news on Mel than Horford immediately after the Jonathan Kaminga business is done. That’s what’s that’s what’s holding it up. Um and I would think I probably Do we know the contracts on those? We don’t, right? Uh it’ll be the minimum for Melton is my guess. Then Horford is going to get the mini MLE. Okay. I would say that the Warriors with Horford, Melton, Steph, Butler, Kaminga, Draymond, Quinton Post is in there. Uh they Buddy Heel, Pajki, that’s like probably a top because who are the guaranteed top six teams in the West? I think you have Denver, Houston, OKC. Who else are you willing to throw in there? Is it the Clippers? You’re Well, yes. Also, but you’re going to hate me for this because I’m I’m going out on a limb on this one. I think I even said this on this show some time ago and you were like I got disperse. Yeah, I think they have an argument. I couldn’t call them a lock. No, yeah, that’s fair. I That’s fair. I can’t call them a lock either. My point is just I think they’re up there. I I think we’re we’re ignoring them. Do you think so? What do you think like the locks are? Like do you think it’s those four that do the Timberwolves belong in there? You’re not even saying the Spurs. The lock I have is or OKC Denver. Um Houston, right? Pending health. Yes, Houston, too. Yeah. Those are those those would be the locks, right? I I don’t think we can. Well, I mean, again, here’s the thing. If they’re healthy and if we’re just assuming health, then I’m also going to put the Clippers in there. But like you I just think don’t think you can assume health on any team that has Kawhi Leonard. I don’t think you could kind of say the same thing with the Warriors with their age getting up there, but I think they’re for I would probably have the Warriors in my top six. I don’t know. They would be among my like four locks, but I would probably have them in my top six. That’s fair. Wow. No, no New Orleans Pelicans, huh? All right. Well, they might think they’re going to be in the top six based off some of the stuff they’ve done. Speaking of the Houston Rockets, Mort, um Kevin Durant, is he going to get Nick if Wendy gets an extension? How much will it be for? Can I at least can I give you my like I don’t know if I’m overthinking this but my thoughts on this are as of right now maybe there’s other stuff that needs to get done. I would almost be alarmed if I’m a Rockets fan and he doesn’t get an extension because it means that he might be wait because if he waits six months it’s like a difference of like two or$4 million whatever it is with the numbers. I think I have him at like two for 119 now versus two for 122 if he waits. They should not be giving him the full boat. Like I just don’t think that that’s the situation you want to get into with the Rockets. And so if you wait, I just automatically default to, oh, he’s getting the two-year max. Would Would that be your read on the situation, too? No, not necessarily. But but you know what? I’m I’m going to defer to you on that because I have not thought about like the extension minutia specifically for Katie. I think when you reach a certain level and you reach a certain age and when you’re that type of guy, something just happens like you you you get like the Jimmy thing, right? Like, oh yeah, I’m I’m getting the two-year deal, whatever. Whether for him it’s the full boat or if it’s slightly below or whatever, like I don’t think he cares all that much. What we were talking about him about a month ago, like how much had he earned over the course of his career? coming. It wasn’t a Kevin Durant like it’s not that I think that he cares, but I’m saying he might even be worth it or close to it, but it does make it a little bit more of a challenge challenge, excuse me, to juggle like the rest of your contracts that are going to come due during this span. And I kind of always operated under the assumption that if he went to Houston and they traded for him, it was going to be something like two years and 100 million. And I know we’re only talking about the difference of 10 million bucks a year, but like again, what did we just talk about with the Nuggets before? those thinner margins matter and so I won’t hate it but I kind of thought and he still can by the way I did kind of think that once he was traded there that his extension was going to come in at less than the max and if we end up not getting one like before the season I think that kind of proves like oh it’s not going to come in at less than the max is basically what I’m saying we’ll see I mean look if he gets the max and yeah I get that there are a lot of contracts now on the books moving forward I I’m still I’m still not a fan of the Jabari Smith Jr. uh extension first and foremost. I thought that was a little too Yeah, I’m not That was It’s like what is it? 12% of salary cap or something like what for 14 off the off the bat, but then you know it dips for a year, which I actually that’s the one part I do like. I’m not I’m just not sold on him yet. I actually would have waited that. But that’s that’s me. That’s me. That’s a that’s a You worry he’s gonna take playing time away from Clint Capella. Is that what this this is about? No. No. I just I I just I’m fearful that he’s just not good enough. That’s where we are. I I’m not. So, I’m not a Jabari Smith Jr. Optimist yet. Um I’m going to give him all the runway to make me look like a damn fool this season. And I I’d love to be wrong. You know me, I always want guys to be good. Um but but my point is you can pivot off guys if you need to. Like if Durant is like, “Oh yeah, look, I want top dollar. I want two years no option. I whatever.” By the way, there’s a H 308 rule that comes into play here, right? Well, that’s why that’s the two years. That’s right. That’s the two years. Okay. Like you can pivot away from certain guys like are we going to sit here and say you can’t pivot off Dorian Finny Smith that if like it becomes a thing? I don’t know. But like are we really at that point where we’re concerned about the money in Houston? Didn’t it feel like by just trading for Durant you’re like okay screw it. We’re all in. So here just here’s my thing. It’s and it’s again if you don’t put Kevin Durant on the books next year, right? They’re like $57 million under the second apron as of right now, right? That is basically that’s with if Tari E his cap hold would be $17 million. You add in Kevin Durant’s max that year, which I think right now would be 57.9. You’re all a sudden into the second apron. And so yes, you can trim salary from there, but that’s just a very like fast track to be on to where you’re that deep into the tax. so suddenly. Yeah. No, no, no. I hear you. Who are you gonna give up? And they’ll have moves to make. I’m not saying they have to trade Ahmed Thompson or anything ridiculous where Al Shepard instead, right? That’s Whoa, whoa, whoa. You’ve gone too far. You’ve gone too far, sir. But so this is I’m not even saying it would be the wrong move. I’m just I find it a little bit I thought an extension would be done by now is all. So I’m going to ask you this before we move on from the Rockets since I don’t think there’s really new stuff to add here. I’m going to set the overunder at $50 million per year. Oh, okay. So, like he takes a little less. Yeah. Are you taking the over or the under on that? I’ll say 50 and a half million. If you think it’s going to be button, you get to go under. You know what? KD doesn’t seem to be like that preoccupied about like the raw number. He’s not LeBron where he’s like, “Yeah, I want the the full max. It’s a status thing.” I’m actually going to say under because I think he’s like, “Yeah, whatever. Get it done.” I’m gonna say over because I’m shocked that you said under and I’m like almost rooting for you to be right because the Rockets are going to set up to be [ __ ] scary if you have KD making like 10 to12 million less than his max salary. I I just wouldn’t be shocked. Like KD seems like a pretty like, you know, how he I understand he wants his money, but like I also think he fully recognizes that, you know, this is about basketball and he like he he’s one of those guys you can really say like he just want to hoop, right? Like that that’s that’s his mantra. That’s the way he thinks and he’s 36 going on 37. I just like if someone comes to him and says, “Hey, look, you want to earn $50 million?” Well, he also had that I wonder if the experience with the Suns was kind of an eye openener to where they never really ran into the financial issues with the Nets. It was just they weren’t healthy. But in Phoenix, they gave up basically everything to get him and then [ __ ] just went so sideways that that was because it never happened like that in Golden State either. So, I wonder if that I’m going to say under just just also because I I also want it to be I also want to see players now who are in that salary bracket just go, you know what, like that’s a lot of money. We’ll be fine. like the raw dollar amount is okay with me. My favorite conspiracy theory is that he will take exactly 12.5 million less over those two years than the max because that essentially makes up all of Stephen Adams’s salary. And so that him coming was like Stephen Adams returning was a condition of Kevin Durant coming and signing for. So you got that nice Kevin Durant and Stephen Adams for what Kevin Durant could have just cost you out. Oh, that’s kind of romantic. I like that. That’s cool. Yeah, I’m a romantic at heart. You know this. No, the Clippers more. This isn’t really a move and they don’t have to give us answers right now per se. Who starts slash or even you want to say closes the most for this team? Well, let’s start with July. But no. Well, so uh Justin Russo, I had Justin Russo on my pod. Um and he’s good. That is no one does a better job covering the Clippers, right? He’s a Clipper speed writer. He knows. And he said, “Look, Beal is going to start. So, it’s going to be in his view, it’s going to be James, it’s going to be Beiel, Kawhai, John Collins, and Subach. So, that’s probably going to be the starting line. Do you think that’s I I tend to agree, but do you think that they’re veering so far away from what made them kind of special last year at that point? Or do like do you worry about the like because now you’re integrating, we’re assuming Chris Paul gets minutes. Are you gonna still try and fit Bdonovich in there? It does feel like no matter what you do, one of Derrick Jones Jr. or Chris Dunn is going to fall by the wayside and what becomes of the defense. This might also just be a leap of faith in Avita Zubot, who was on a lot of all defense teams last year, but I found myself wondering if they’ve maybe I don’t want to even say messed with too much, but it’s just a question I have as to where did they kind of really veer away from what made them like endeared themsel like made them good, but then also endeared themselves to everyone last year was that hellacious defense. I mean, look, Beal, I think, is actually not as bad a defender um as we think because again, it’s about when he was in Washington, he was averaging 30. He was caring carrying everything. Then he went to a very weird situation in Phoenix where I don’t think his play was indicative of anything really. Now you have Kawhai, you have James, you have John Collins, those three guys can really get the scoring going. You have book down book down eventually off the bench. You have Chris Paul who’s going to take care of the ball and set guys up. You have a lot of scoring. You have a Brook Lopez who’s going to pop threes and and and score near the interior. So like for Beiel now, one, he can optimize his own shot profile, which frankly is pretty scary because that dude can shoot and that dude can score, but it also allows him to play a higher brand of intense defense first and foremost. Like I don’t think Kriston is going to be out of the rotation. I don’t think they’re Joe Jones Jr. are going to be out of the rotation. If anything, I think those guys are going to be huge players off the bench and they’re going to mix and match. They’re going to probably run what 11 deep next year, which I really appreciate that they’re pivoting into the depth part. And I think for them to be able to scale back and forth that way is such a luxury. Like they’ll have games where, oh, we we’re going to need an extra pinch of defense. Hey, you know what? Like CP, you’re not going to play 28 minutes tonight. probably going to be playing 20 and we’re going to give the rest to to Chris or like you can sort of scale in and out that way. I’m not nervous. If anything, I like these upgrades a fair bit. I think this makes them better. I think they now have a more I think they have a little bit more sustainability in a way than before where everything was always grit and grind. Now they also just have some talent which allows them to occasionally coast a little bit in in the best sense of the word where they can just out talent people sometimes or to outtalent teams sometimes which I don’t think necessarily was something they could do last year. So I’m all in on this team. I’m not worried. I Yeah. I I mean I think worried is probably too strong of a word. You were worried Dan. I could sense it. You were you were sweating like a pig. Miles Johnson says that Dunn literally got benched. I think they realized they need more offense. I’m not, you know, I’m not disagreeing with that. It’s just you went into, okay, you brought Book Lopez in, but you went into John Collins and Chris Paul and Bradley Peele. I’m just curious how they distribute the minutes from there. And I think, you know, you’re kind of betting, I guess, if you think you’re going to be a top five offense versus you were a top three defense last year. And I just think there could be more drop off than people are crediting there. But if Kawhai’s healthy, Zubatz has another year like he did and they have, like you said, their margin for error is just higher now because even if they have injuries, they stretch so far deep. So, I still really like them as a team. I’m just curious what they’re And also, by the way, anyone who says like the Bradley, these were all good pickups, but like we just saw that Bradley Beal did try to adapt and it didn’t work out in Phoenix. I guess we’re all just kind of assuming that it’s going to work in Los. I don’t have a problem with that, but like it wasn’t, you know, it’s different, I guess, but it’s also like if Kawhai’s healthy and James Harden is there and you are playing Chris Paul, it’s like Bradley Beal is going to have to adapt again. So, there were struggles there when he tried to do that. He still shot the ball really well. I think that’s probably the biggest misconception about his time in Phoenix is he shot what do he shoot last year like 39% on threes or whatever. Um I’m just this team’s really good. I think that they’ll probably like they should probably be a top four seed in the East, but I’m just curious how all the pieces come together. I you know you and I we’re usually aligned on a lot of things. I am I’m not aligned with you on the Bradley Beal thing here where you said, “Oh, he has to like adapt again.” And yeah, he has to adapt, but under so much better circumstances because he was sort of backing up Devin Booker in Phoenix because the like the for I don’t know. I still don’t know what the plan was in Phoenix to get a shooting guard in there when your best player was a freaking shooting guard. And like both of those guys, Beiel and Booker, aren’t exactly like fluid positional changers. Like they’re primarily twos. like they’re not, you know, oh, natural three, natural one. Here, he slides right into that shooting guard role. So, like, yes, he’ll have to adapt to the play of James Harden who’s ball dominant. Yes, he’ll have to adapt to Kawhi Leonard, but he’ll have his own spot for once. Like, there aren’t there isn’t going to be a lot of positional overlap like there was in Phoenix. And I think that that’s a big mental hurdle as well. Like, oh, this guy has my spot. And like I can’t play around that to the best of my ability. Neither can he play around the same spot, which means we’re sort of pigeon holed being in that same positional situation. Here, he’s got that shooting guard on lock. That’s great. That means that gives him a level of security, like emotional security about one spot. then he can adapt accordingly. I do worry that they might be, if that’s the starting lineup you’re outlining, I do worry that they might be putting too much on Kawhai defensively. I do think it helps offensively though that they very clearly have tried to streamline what Kawhai does offensively where in Phoenix you weren’t necessarily trying to make Devin Booker or Kevin Durant a smaller part or a more streamlined part of your offense where it’s like Kawhi’s like maybe they don’t want him creating or dribbling as much. So, uh, Danielle Williams says the Clippers should bring back air coffee and get Delano Banton. They have a roster spot, I believe. But my other question for them, I didn’t think it was worth talking about, is they’re seven, they’re like $7 million into the tax. This feels like a team that might be like, “Oh, does anyone want to take on Derek Jones Jr.? Um, he might be a little too important depending on how you feel about the defense.” Gordon. Yeah, maybe Chris Dunn, he doesn’t get you all the way there. Um, but Bodovich seems like the odd man out. So, it’s like, can they get cheaper going from Bogd Bagdanovich to I don’t know what the the player is. He’s the odd man out. That’s interesting. I I’m not You have Chris Paul and Bradley Beal and James Harden and you’re saying Chris Dunn’s going to play where like I’m not I’m not I’m not saying Chris Dunn is going to play a lot. I think Dunn is like the 11th guy. I think the secondary rotation is pretty I I can’t s sit here and say obviously but like to me it would right now it would appear as though Chris Paul Bdon Bogdanovic um Nick Patum Derrick Jones Jr. and Brook Lopez would be like the secondary rotation, right? That feels like And that’s, by the way, that’s a sneaky good defensive secondary rotation. By the way, who do you have? Chris Paul, Derek Jones. So, yeah. Yeah, let’s start. Let’s start big to small. So, Brook Lopez, Derek Jones Jr. already there. You have two pretty good defenders. Then you have Nick Batum at the three, also a very good cohesive like team defender. Then you go booked on and then you have Chris Paul at the one. That’s interesting. I’ll be cur and I guess there’s going to be guys that miss games. I’d be curious to see when they’re full strength how everybody gets staggered or are they going to run like hockey style units. Um but that just lends itself to then you like Chris Dunn would be the like that would be someone to trade if you’re looking to cut your tax bill. Well, that’s the thing because you just said injuries, right? So I think Dunn is basically the injury um security blanket like who because here here like let’s say Brook Lopez misses two weeks right right then in that secondary rotation you just moved Derrick Jones Jr up center in those minutes like there there are there is a lot of positional fluidity with a lot of these guys like I’m just not worried again I never use the word worried just asking questions all right fair um I think but I actually do think that you’re probably underestimating how much they would want to trade Bumbadonovich. The question of whether they can because he has those two years I think left on his contract. So it’s not just this year. He’s a Does he have a player option or is that that’s not a team? No, actually that’s that’s a team option. No, one year. One year. Sorry. All right. Well then I think I could see him getting traded for like a like a cheaper player who helps them end up ducking the tax by the because then they’ll have two because they were out of the tax last year, right? Or am I wrong about that? I I don’t know. I just I I I actually like Bokedan. No, no, I like him. I just there’s a chance that if you have Beal and Harden that he is a little super flu here at that point. This is an old ass team. You like you there are going, you said it, there are going to be missed games. No, as Curry clears Kobe, Clippers should get more old guys. They’re too young. So, thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Get LeBron. Trade Yanik Kon Netherhouser for for LeBron. I actually like him. Um, so the Lakers, I didn’t want to spend like the Luca extension. He’s either going to sign it or he’s not. I would predict he signs a three-year extension. So, I’m not really, that’s not something I’m too interested in. How do you see them using like their final They have 13 guaranteed contracts. Like, what do they need to look for? What does this team still need when they’re filling out the rest of their roster? You brought up Malcolm Brockton at one point uh if he was to sign a mint deal. Wouldn’t hate that. Wouldn’t hate that at all. That’s a big guard who can play both sides of the ball. all day. He can play the one, he can play the two. Like Smart and Vincent and Luca and Ryu, right? I hear you. Um, do we trust that Marcus Smart is going to be healthy all throughout the year? I do. It’s funny when people sign with the Lakers just how instantly inflated their reputation becomes where it’s like, yeah, Marcus Smart three or four years ago, awesome, but he hasn’t played much basketball or much good basketball over the past two years. So, yeah. And like I I fully concede that Brockton himself is no pillar of health, but like you know if you have another body to throw in there, I wouldn’t hate it. So like that’s one guy. I haven’t thought I think they need to get another big. Sure. Who are you thinking? I I mean like Chris Chris Buché floating around out there. Oh man, you just got an erection. Okay. Yeah, I don’t hate that. Or what about I’ve been kind of thinking that I don’t we’ve just been seeing it feels like more buyouts in the offseason but like Robert Williams III if he ended up getting bought out by maybe there’s even a trade to be had there when you would pick up two Portland centers off the buyout market. Well they could also I think Robert Williams the third is like under 13 million or whatever. So they could actually trade for him. That would be good. That doesn’t really fill their roster spots because I find myself looking at this team and thinking, okay, they have eight and that’s clearly an upgrade. Like they do they need Maxi Cleba to be healthy next year? Like that’s what I’m looking at their big mir rotation. What I find myself thinking, wait, so they’re hardcapped at the first. They only have 1.1 million left to play with. Um, oh yeah, you might be right about that. So that Well, they have to That’s not even enough for a zero year rookie. I don’t Unless I’m uh their number actually. So for for whatever reason I thought they were hardc kept at the second apron and I was wrong on that. So that means they have significantly less salary flexibility than we thought they had. Well, they need to figure out something there then because they’re going to need to get to 14 roster spots at some point. They only have 13. Am I the only one who like look I love Jared Vanderbilt but like don’t love him at 11 a.5 million? I mean, I don’t think anyone likes that contract. Okay. Except for Jared Vanderbilt and his agent. And his agent. Yeah. Okay, great. Fair enough. Um, but I think this I don’t know. I think this team still needs like more of a wing and then another big and that’s like you said, they’re not too flexible. I can’t believe I didn’t realize they were hardcapped at the first apron. My god, that’s really bad by me. Oh, relax. It’s fine. For some reason, I could have sworn they were on the cuz what did they use? So smart. Oh, because they used Okay. All right. Yeah. No, should have seen that coming. Well, that’s going to be rough stuff for them. Like, how are they creating this? They have just enough to sign a player with no years of experience. I guess that you Well, or there’s a trade coming like Gabe Vincent, Maxi Cleber are both expiring like perhaps. Oh, they you No, they can aggregate. They can. They can. Obviously, they were hardced the first apron, so they can aggregate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I mean, good for them. Um, they also, but like the other thing, too, with this team is like they just had to get rid of Jordan Goodwin to make it like couldn’t you Is it blasphemous to say that Jordan Goodwin is a more valuable defensive player, maybe at least at the point of attack right now, than Marcus Smart would be? So, I that’s rough. Like, I get why you’re asking that question. I don’t think we’ve seen enough out of Marcus Smart these last couple years to like be g be able to answer that question in full, but like in terms of availability, I think you have a point an availability, but I’m saying like just do you so you think it’s egregious to say just in a vacuum? No, no, no. I I say we I I’m literally saying we don’t know right now because Martin like how much has Marcus Smart played over the past two years? I don’t like uh he’s play he’s has not played a whole bunch. Right. That’s what I’m saying. So like we have really no idea of like what state his body is in like his game. Well, he’s working out. I found that to be the most hysterical update is that he’s working out over the offseason and taking it seriously which my guess would be he has done every single offseason of his entire career as long as injuries permitted as much. Right. So he’s played 54 games in total over the past two seasons. Like, so I understand your question. I just don’t have an answer for it because we literally haven’t seen him. So, I think there’s probably a trade coming with this team would be my guess. It doesn’t have to be a major one. Do you think Lucas signs his extension very quickly before we move on or signs in extension? So, um, like in Oh, here we go. Here’s the Jokic conspiracy theory. No, it’s it’s worse than that, Dan. Um, I I think I think that he Well, he might sign it, but I don’t think he should. Can I phrase it that way? Can I ask why he helped recruit Aton and Smart? It seems like Yeah, that’s great. Eventually, he’s also got Did you see he’s got like tricep definition? I saw I read that whole Men’s Health article and it was great. I found I found it funny that they went out of their way to mention almond milk which makes me think that like Luca was drinking like I don’t know like heavy cream like during timeouts or something like I just don’t understand why they It’s funny you mentioned that. I’m not going to say the name. There was a player in Danish basketball many years ago and he was told to bulk up and he started to drink like what what do you call like whole milk and like a lot like a gallon a day because that he thought that was the idea of bulking up and he just turned fat just fat that when you bulk up you’re invariably going to gain body fat like this whole main gain thing. Yeah. But like he that that became like he he started looking a little bit like me which isn’t a great thing. Like that was No, but okay. So my my Luca thing like you shouldn’t have said like oh here at the tail end of this one because now I’m going to open Pandora’s box here. Um I don’t think aggregators alert 10459 is the time stamp. You may aggregate this. Go ahead. Okay. Look, LeBron is going to be 41 this season. There isn’t like that secondary guy lined up. We like the Austin Reeves contract situation is not, you know, resolved either. And is he really, you know, good enough to be a secondary star on a potential championship level team? No. Is there a team out there who has like the ideal Luca Dantic pairing who could open up max cap space next summer by just making a few moves here and there? Call the San Antonio Spurs. Yes, there are. So, I’m just saying I probably wouldn’t if I’m Luca. If that pathway to San Antonio is open for me, if I’m Luca Donic next summer, I’m absolutely giving that a real hard look. There’s not a better fit for me in the NBA if I’m Luca Donic than Victor Winyama. I mean, so you’re just saying that the Spurs are not I mean, that’s going to step on the toes of what we talk about with the Spurs, but so the Spurs aren’t keeping Darren Fox. They’re not signing him to an extension. That would be the idea of it. Like because so the um the Luca extension thing is eligible first, right? Like that’s was that I think it’s August second or third. Yeah. And then Fox August 3rd or something along those lines. And basically what I’m saying here is this and maybe I’m just stealing away from the Spurs segment here, but if Luca signs an extension, I think the Spurs are like, “Oh, okay. Let’s let’s sign um Tieran Fox to an extension.” But if Luca doesn’t sign it, the Spurs would be idiots to go out and sign Darren Fox to one. I I think that is a match that should be like they should be all in. The Spurs should be all in on the Luca experience. They should tamper the everlasting [ __ ] out of this to make sure Luca knows that, hey guy, if you don’t sign that extension, we are here for you in the summer and we’ve got this Frenchman who’s apparently 67 now. What? 67 all other way around. Yeah, sounds like he’s shrinking. That might actually be a problem. All right, I’ll let that marinate. The English man, come on. We’ll move on to the Memphis Grizzlies. So, Mort, as we talk, uh he was eligible since I think July 6th. John Moran can sign a two-year extension worth about it’s like what is itund and it’s two years and 120 million almost. That would take him through his age 30 season. keep them on the books through 29 30. My question to you is we understand why players don’t sign these extensions. I think now they feel more likely to maybe because everyone’s just extension eligible basically every two years. So you just keep locking up money, forced a trade later. But if you’re the Grizzlies, you’ve renegotiated an extended Jiren Jackson Jr. You’ve traded Desmond Bane. Are you offering John Morant this extension? Or the better question would be, should the Grizzlies offer John Morant an extension? I don’t think they should. But again, look, I I also did not like the Jiren Jackson Jr. uh renegotiating extend. I what I’m really this is this is a larger question which is really what do you expect like where do you expect to land on a team that’s led by John Moran and Jiren Jackson Jr.? Like what what is your aspiration level here? Are you okay topping out as a potential second round team year in and year out with those two guys? If you are, cool. Like, more power to you. Um, I think this is an uninspiring tusome. I don’t understand why the Grizzlies keep being so infatuated with those guys. You have a lead guard who can’t shoot. You have a big man who can’t rebound. And you’re about to pay them $100 million a year combined. I’m sorry. That’s that is such a bad strategy. I’m I’m so out on the on the Grizzlies if that is their continued belief that these two will suddenly break years long p like careerlong patterns and suddenly fill it in. Now I realize the push back to that is going to be well they win games and that is true. They do win games in the regular season. They do win games and they do get to the playoffs off of those two. That is not inconsequential. That is a a major boon. But you kind of want them to be more than just a regular season team. You want them to have playoff success and like sustained playoff success, deep playoff success. Are you going to have that with John Morand and Jiren Jackson Jr. as your two lead dogs? I consider me a skeptic. That’s what’s tough when you factor in the availability with Juu. Now, I think what’s interesting here, though, is like, think back to De’Aran Fox before it all went to [ __ ] with the Kings. Mhm. They offered him that 2-year extension when he was eligible with it, and it was just known that, hey, he’s not going to sign it. He’s going to wait to sign a longer one. Turns out that didn’t happen. Think about what we’ve kind of seen with Jokic right now in Denver. He’s going to wait to sign a longer extension. I actually think it’s smart that he didn’t sign it because theoretically, he’s the type of player, sign it now, you’re extension eligible again in two years, you could sign another one. But if you don’t even offer it, do you know what that says to me is that you’re afraid he’s going to accept it. And that’s what would make this super intriguing here. Does that make any sense? Like because you normally hear just, “Oh, it was offered. It just wasn’t the right time for him.” But if you don’t offer it, it suggests that you’re afraid he’s going to accept it or that you’re just not sold on him as your franchise centerpiece. So, if we don’t get any whisper that they offered it and he turned it down or the two sides agreed just to revisit it next summer, I’m just putting a pin in that. I’m clocking it. Yep. Yep. Same. Could you could you argue though or is this too ass backwards to say if it takes him through his age 30 season? Maybe he doesn’t sign it, but like is it the worst thing in the world to Okay, like we have John Morant kind of a like a guard, super athletic. Um we have him locked up through his age 30 season. Now we know we don’t have to go any further out if we continue to wait. Does that feel like maybe a sweet spot or is it just ah we’ve already seen like availability issue here. That’s a really good point. That is a sweet spot. Um because you kind of expect that’s probably the age where he starts to decline physically where the lack of let’s just let’s just say it the lack of a floor game is going to turn him into like a Russell Westbrook adjacent player. uh which isn’t a great great news for the Grizzlies. So, no, I don’t think that’s that’s that would be an egregious plan. I do think it’d be egregious if they gave him, you know, the full max on that extension. Like, what did you say he was eligible for? Was it two years? Two and two and 120. I think it’s a little less than that. Hopefully, a lot less than that. I mean, I think it’s like in the 118s or something like that when you do the actual honestly. Maybe I still think Trey Young is going to be like kind of the case study. I thought it was going to be Jiren Jackson Jr. by the way, but he renegotiated and extended, right? Like I just think, and I might be wrong, but one of my hunches is that the bar for max contracts, especially like coming off that first one, like the rookie scale max, I think it’s just going to be higher in the way that the like in this new CBA. And I know that some people think the the aprons have been overstated, but I really think it’s going to become like a bugaboo to where someone like a Trey or like someone who’s just not a consensus top 15 player consistently year in and year out is not always going to have the max. Maybe it’s top 20 out of like however you want to game it. I I but we’ve kind of yet to see that example in play. Maybe that’ll happen again. Is John Morant a guy like that or is it is it Trey Young? I honestly don’t know. But I just have this suspicion that it’s going to become more like the bar for it is going to become higher. And if John Morant doesn’t even get offered one, his you can kind of write off and say he’s missed a lot of time. The Grizzlies also made this weird Desmond Bane, not weird, but they made the Desmond Bane move. It seems like they’re kind of reorienting a little bit. So that’s why I have Trey Young’s name still circled is just if he doesn’t get an extension or if he signs for less than the max, that’s going to be a trend that I’ll be monitoring moving forward. Yeah, I think that’s good on the Grizzlies. We can move on to the Minnesota Timberwolves who are uninteresting I think in kind of a good way. Like it just feels like most of their business is done. But do you think they have 13 guaranteed contracts on the book books? Mort, do you think they need to add another ball handler or is Rob Dillingham officially ready? Or if they decide to add another ball handler, what does that say about Rob Dillingham? Like where do you sort of land on all of that? I mean, you can add another ball handler. It doesn’t have to be a guy who potentially, you know, get get goes into the starting lineup or anything like you you can add another ball handler who is like what a third point guard or something along along those lines. Like that’d be fine. Uh I would definitely give the ball to Dillingham and just say, “All right, run this show. Let’s see what you got.” And then we have Mike Connley to sort of, you know, save his ass if necessary. Um, can my still save asses in the year 2025? That’s the bigger question. Did anyone pick up Monte Morris? No, he’s still out there. All right. And wasn’t he with the Wolves at one point, too? Like, doesn’t he? Yeah, I think he was. I mean, they could be another interesting Malcolm Brogden team. Oh, that that’s a good shout. Yeah, I don’t hate that because then he can also play the offguard spot and and uh be more of a scorer, which I think would be the worst thing in the world. Yeah. I don’t hate that because they have do they actually maybe I was No. Yeah. 13 players on Yeah. So I I just wonder like because if they don’t add another ball handler and they don’t view Rob Dillingham as someone who’s going to come in and soak up like 20 minutes per game, I think it puts kind of a lot of pressure on Taran Shannon Jr. Dante Devincenzo and then of course Julius Ranal Anthony Edwards. feel like one guaranteed someone can come in and make some decisions with the ball short and I like Rob Dillingham in theory should be that player. I came away from summer league kind of thinking I don’t know if that’s going to happen this season though. Um summer league is such a hard you know fair like that’s Yeah, right. You know where I’m going with this. It’s such it like it’s such a difficult place to like project anything. I do hear you though. like he only played 10 minutes per game last season when when he was like the eighth overall selection and they needed guard play. That was kind of worrying, but it’s not to the point where I’m like out on him by any stretch of the imagination. Um, I guess we’ll see. I don’t hate the idea of getting another guardian, but I don’t think it’d be one of those guards who would like threaten him to take away minutes on his account. Like you need someone who’s just basically accepting of whatever they’re gonna get, right? Like and I think to be clear the only way that I so what the actual red flag would be because I don’t think anyone they’re going to sign unless they were a Ben Simmons team for some reason. Even that wouldn’t necessarily signal anything, right? It would be a trade where it’s and I’m saying they don’t trade Rob Dillingham, but they trade for another ball handler that you look at. Like if this was the IO Dumu team, you might clock that and say, “Yeah, oh, uh, they might not have faith in Rob Dillingham next season.” Yeah. Uh, what what what would All right. I Oh, I was just throwing Nir trade assets are so like you don’t want to trade. They do have some more flexibility on the trade market just relative to they are with the salary cap, but right I don’t like who do you like Leonard Miller and like they just their matching salary is Mike Connley if it’s not Rob Dillingham or Devenzo. It feels like they actually need like a midter contract to move. They don’t have a guy making in like the 1617 million area which I think could be an issue moving forward. Well, we’ll see. No, I mean they have like Nas Reed moving forward, but that’s in the 20s. Yeah. And are they ready to move off of him given the contract that they signed? That’s also a weird team, right? Because they extended Gobear some time ago as well. Like Denzo’s extension eligible too. I’d wondered if they might extend him, but he has two more years left. I think that’s a decision you wait for next summer. Yeah, I think so, too. I But like he seems way too important to move either. And so then you’re like, could you is it feasible to think that maybe you could upgrade from Mike Conley by moving Mike Conley? Uh like in a one-on-one trade? No. I mean, you probably have to sweeten it a little bit. No, I it depends on the sweetener, but no, I I think that should be fairly reasonable. I mean, he’s an expiring contract. after all. I just I’m going to be very curious to see what type of role Dillingham plays uh this this season. That’s enough on the Wolves. Another kind of easy team there. Not a lot of business left to do. Um speaking of teams that are not easy though more, the Pistons have a ton of the Pistons. Wow. Sorry Detroit fans. The Pelicans have a ton of bigs and I would say no elite rim protectors. Statistically speaking, their most elite rim protector last season when you look at points saved per 75 possessions was Cavon Looney, but he did not contest a ton of shots at the rim. Like just relative to being in that position, I think Eve’s Mei would probably be your best bet is saying, okay, that’s your best rim protect because it’s not Zion, it’s not Derek Queen. So it’s definitely Mei. Yeah. So, is that like fine? Yeah. Emphasis on fine. Like it’s it’s it’s unspectacular is what it is. Uh I I love how you’re like completely lasered in on all the rim protection where I’m just like, “Oh, look at all the holes everywhere else as well.” It’s if if like, okay, if they figure out their rim protection, that’s cool. Then they only have to like fill out 700 other gaps in the boat that’s sinking. They have some shooting and self-creation on the roster now. Maybe you could say they don’t have enough shooting, but like you have Trey Murphy, there’s Jeremiah Fears, there’s Jordan Pool shot it. Well, Jeremiah Field is not really a shooter, but Jordan Pool shot it really well last year. You would have to assume they have enough ball handling, especially if Deontay Murray’s going to come back at some point. Um, so I’m just I guess I’m just for a team, this is why it stood out for a team that has so many first of all, they’re not even like conventionally big, most of them anyway. Like when you look at Zion or Kavon Looney, like for a team that has so many bigs to not really have like a guy that I point to like, yeah, that’s like a really elite rim protector. Which is why I remember Schmidt Da covers the Pelicans for Ino, does fantastic job, had suggested they go all in on a Walker Kesler trade. And when I I was reading what he wrote, it all made sense. I’m just like, that’s a really shitty spot to be in after you just drafted Derek Queen and then signed Kavon Looney. Yeah, this is generally a small team for by and it’s not a team that how to phrase this like you you have quality at a certain at a certain level at more or less every position, but the quality is so inconsistent. it. Every every ounce of it comes with like question marks. Like look, Scion uh and Brian Saporic, shout out to him, he actually reminded me on a podcast we we recorded that Scion has some issues that like legal issues that are going to be a thing. Uh this this NBA season or offseason has just been loaded. So I I actually completely forgot about that. So, there’s that which could also affect his play on the court, which also could affect his future in the league. Um, there’s the Jordan Pool situation of it all where you don’t really know what kind of version of him you’re going to get. Are you going to get, you know, the more calmed down version of last year or you’re getting your one Washington Jordan pool where he’s just firing up [ __ ] Uh, what’s the injury situation with the like Herb Jones? Is he going to be healthy? Uh Jeremiah Fierce, is he going to have a year one uh breakout more or less? Like is he going to be a rook of the year candidate? I I have him like in that discussion at the very least, especially if the shot is going to come along, but we don’t know that yet. We’ll see. Derek Queen, according to Ricky O’Donnell, who like that I’m just going to use his words, is a no three, no D center, which yeah, that sounds great in the year 2025. You know, I typically do not like those players and I came away from him in summer league like really appreciating what he does, but you very much noticed I know a lot of people called out the defense. I wasn’t as locked in on that. Um the groundboundness is just overwhelmingly evident. No. So, I mean, look, Queen is good at what he does. Like I think the best thing I the best comp I came up with when I just he felt like a Boogie Cousins in terms of just scoring the basketball like getting from point A to point B and and just putting the ball in the basket that is not insignificant. Like that’s that’s a substantial skill set, but if you can’t defend the basket, if you can’t hit the three in this day and age, um good luck. And also we still don’t know what the hell Jordan Hawkins is. And I look, this team’s just like we can talk about rim protection, but we can talk about like three-point shooting, decision making, roster stability, legal issues. Well, I think with this team, it’s so when you look like let’s talk about like the like the facilitation. You look at this, it’s like, okay, they have a bunch of different ball handlers, but do you trust any of them to be like the primary table setter for everybody else? And it’s probably not like Zion and that’s it. So, it’s so it’s just the bigs just stood out to me, too, because the DeJonte Murray thing if he’s healthy, maybe that like the complexion of their team looks different there. Uh, there’s a ton of questions with this team, but in terms of just like what urgently needs the biggest upgrade, it seems like if they’re trying to be good next season, and if you’re going to trade an unprotected first round pick, I know Pelican fans are going to be tired of hearing it, but if that’s the deal you’re going to make, you’re trying to be really good next season. It was like that’s the thing that could improve this team the most would be like let’s put an elite rim protector on this team because now you’re insulating like where do you think it’s easiest to cover up for defensive efficiencies? I think as you have that strong back stop it’s going to be harder to do from the perimeter working outside in. Right. Right. Right. And also like you have Jos Alvarado, you have Herb Jones, you have Trey Murphy running around the perimeter. So I think that they need to I’m with I hadn’t given it enough shot thought. So it’s like shout out to Schmidt until he wrote about it I think a few weeks ago. But that’s what it feels like this team should really I like Eves Mei. I like Derek Queen. I like Zion. But like those guys are not again mei comes closest there probably but they’re not guys I view as just oh they they can be elite rim protectors the the backline of a of a really good defense. I agree with that. This this is going to be a spicy one more. So buckle in for the next hour and a half. Yeah. Right. Um, will the Oklahoma City Thunder is it time to move on from Usman Jang and maybe create another roster spot? Um, yes. That hurts my soul as who someone who is all in on Usman Jang like three years ago. But yeah, I mean I don’t like they do traditionally I mean they end up moving these guys that are headed for restricted free agency or might be extension eligible. We saw it with Josh Giddy. There were some delays on like like we saw it with Trey man like there was more delays on that and Pu who’s out of the NBA currently but like from the Sam Prey playbook it seems like Usman Jen would go somewhere. It’s just will it happen over the offseason or is it going to happen closer to the trade deadline? I guess we’ll find out. Uh wave and stretch. No, I’m kidding. Um like if I’m the Nets, I’m taking a flyer on Jang. If I’m the the Jazz, well, I guess the Jazz have a ton of like forwards. Well, they they have Lowry, they have Taylor Hendricks. Yeah, they’re Phil Powky, right? They’re a little But like are you really I mean, yeah, I I guess you could He makes under five million bucks. You’re going to tell me he’s not worth a flyer. Using earning 6.6. Okay. He makes under seven million bucks for it. [Laughter] Okay, fair enough. in today’s league is like 4% of the salary cap. I could get behind that. I just Has has anything stood out to you over three years so far? Oh, that’s There is. Maybe not so much anymore, but there have been moments there’s like a real on ball feel there. We just had like the shooting and then he gets in like these deer and headlight stances on defense, right? Totally get it. But like I think if you put him in an offense that maybe makes him ah he’s still kind of skinny. Can he work out of the short role? I would just be interested to see put him around a bunch of spacers and maybe see what he could do if you’re going to put him the ball. Like is there a Jeremy Soen type? Did you just say put him around a bunch of spacers as if he’s like the number one option? Josh Giddy style. Oh, Josh Giddy. Well, I thought you said you mean as like put the ball in his hands like put like if you could put him on a team. Clear it out for Usman, guys. Come on. Come on. First of all, if you’re trying to command the tank, you’re going to tell me that’s a bad idea. Oh, that’s fair. That’s a fair point. So like you’re saying you should trade for Usman Jen if you are a sneaky tank team basically. How do we get him to Boston for this year? Because I have no idea what the [ __ ] they’re planning on doing. You look at their center. Boston needs to play center. Yeah, Boston needs a center. Usman Jang is starting center. Go for it. All right. That’s that’s Sam Hower to OKC for Usman Jang and stuff. I would say Boston money. I don’t hate that. I don’t actually Does OKC have the I OKC I just assume has infinite salary flexibility? Uh they are. Oh, they’re barely under the tax. I might take them over. So they’re Yeah, they would need to throw. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, that’s not going to work for them. Sorry. Uh and you’re not obviously not going to trade Thomas Sorber. That’s just not allowed. So they could work. I mean, but let’s get him to send Sam Hower somewhere else then. I don’t like so but yeah I think it’s just a matter of when for him because there’s no pathway for him to getting minutes on this team. No. No. But but I also like I just feel like and it sounds ridiculous because this team is so freaking deep. I’m just at that point where I’m like also looking at the salary slot. I’m going oh you can do better OKC. But like that’s some real sicko [ __ ] too. I’m looking at literally the deepest team in the league and I’m going they could do better with that 6.6 six million. You know what would be like embarrassment of riches [ __ ] is if they traded Usman Jang and stuff and they just got IO. I think that would fit within their like keep them under the tax and then it’s they have all these okay like these defenders who could small but can guard up. That would just be ridiculous. But I’m wondering AJ Mitchell who’s like oh yeah finally a contract perhaps I can play a little bit. No at that point they’re playing five cards at once. It’s absolutely happening right. Oh Tobic too. Yeah. Yeah. We move on to the Phoenix Suns who uh were very weird about the way that they announced like their their point. I’m I’m very I guess is sensitive the word. I’m kind of cognizant that we don’t need to use traditional like positional archetypes, but the Suns have gone out of their way to make it seem like Jaylen Green will be starting at point guard, which is just no matter what you’re trying to do, whether it’s make it seem like Devin Booker gets to slide to his natural role or that you’re not going to put a certain responsibility on him, the look is just terrible. And I don’t think you get to sit here and say like if Jordan Goodwin or Jared Butler makes the roster or if you have Colin Gilppy, like that’s not the answer. This team, I know that positions are very fluid. They need like a game manager. Like this would be the roster Tus Jones would have made sense on rather than last year because the ball would have been in his hands a little bit more. I like are they really not going to sign a floor general type player more? Um well, give me a second. I’ll call management. I don’t know. uh given that they’re spending 144 million on uh the five guys, the five top earners on their team and they’re all wings. Uh I would say that they painted themselves into a corner, Dan. That would be my my my read on the situation. Um I don’t know what the hell they’re trying to do. I don’t know what they’re trying to achieve here. I’m guessing that there’s a trade line trade lined up because this makes just no sense. their roster construction is completely warped. So is it that especially with all those young on the roster, right? Like with or Mark Williams and Cayman Malawatch specifically, it feels like look, I think Devin Booker is probably an undervalued passer at this point, but it feels like they need someone else to like help organize those bigs or at least put them in optimal situations coming out of screens. Correct. Yes. Um like you brought up IO for literally every single team out there. Is he the new Kobe White? Right. Like he is probably the the guy to bring up for this team. Someone who can just run the show, albeit in a low usage, low volume role. Yes. So you don’t expect them you think they’ll roll into the season like this? You don’t. They’re apparently interested in Jonathan Kamingo, which does he make sense on this team? Not as a floor leader. No. Well, no. Not as a not as a point guard, but as a even as just I guess you want another on ball scorer even though you have Jaylen Green. I just find that odd, too. No, I I don’t like the fit there. I mean, look, so you’re also going to hinder like Ryan Dunn’s development who’s like his minutes are actually going to be significantly important to them because if his three ball takes another like leap and if his defense remains like that’s that’s a player right there. I just don’t like I want them to do something. We’re at that stage of the summer where just kind of surveying the field like how many open trades are there at this point? Like can they like, hey, hi, we want a point guard for Grayson Allen. 29 teams are just going to shut the phone off and just like nope, not going to take it. I just I don’t know what the trade is. I don’t know what the deal is. I don’t know what is out there for them that actually makes sense. Are they shopping Dylan Brooks? If so, who are they targeting? How does it make sense? is still not going to fix the Jaylen Green Deon Booker thing. Like I hate this roster with a passion of a thousand sons. Yeah. I don’t I don’t know what the move is either. Like even you looking at Sacramento has like a surit of guards, but none of them I think come close to like a Malik Monk. Like that doesn’t really do it for me here. Utah’s probably not willing to sell that low on Keonte George would be my guess. He might be semi. Those two guys you just mentioned are better S2s anyway. Kante George, I think there’s probably still some room, but I I do your point. No, sure. But he was still he came into the league as a two. They tried to develop him as a one. There’s they’re they’re still doing that. And he’s done admirably. I will give him that. But if we are being real with ourselves, like his best position is probably still the two. You know who’s kind of sneaky good at throwing lobs? I’m just wondering if he was getable. Jose Alvarado. Not just a non-start. New Orleans. He’s two years and$9 million left on his deal. That’s so [ __ ] cheap. I’m so I don’t mean to cackle. It’s so ridiculous. What like is there a team out there that just have an overabundance of point guards of po like I mean Charlotte’s weird right now? They all of a sudden went like guard crazy. Yeah, they did. But Colin Ston isn’t really a point guard. He’s not. He’s more Josh Green can do some live dribble stuff as Grant would point out if he was on the show, but I can’t get aboard a Josh Green train. No, no, not at all. And like the Clippers are probably not going to like give them Chris Dunn anyway. That’s also like is that someone you want running the show? Yeah. No, not really. Bo Don Mdanovich doesn’t really like that’s not really there was never his super strong suit, but that’s not really his game anymore. They might be able to talk themselves into Cam Thomas being like a point guard type. That’d be uh interesting to say the least. Yeah, they would be a team that would be like, “Hey, if Denver was looking to shed this out like a Jaylen Picket and take a flyer on him.” I’m not saying he’s the answer, but God, and at that point, it’s like, well, then if I have a problem with Colin Casey and Jaylen Green running things, I’m I’m totally cool with Jay and Picket running it. So, yeah. I mean, yeah, there’s no teams with like and I don’t even know if like Malcolm Brogden mostly is going to create out of drive. So, I can’t even say they’d be a great Malcolm Brogden team. I’ll tell you something. This is something that I’ve been not tracking in like a scientific sense. It does feel like the league at large is getting lower on point guards, like actual point guards. Well, it seems like they want players with more size who can pass, shoot, like decision make that type stuff. But, but it feels like the traditional like court vision point guard like one position point guard is about to die. There are Do you feel that way about one position players in general a little bit? Potentially. So, but the point guard was always like your quarterback, like the the the heart of your team. he always sort of found a way to survive, right? And now that position seems to be not there. Like when is the last time we’ve seen like a draft where you go, oh, they have like three point guards in this draft who could be all star like when like even one or two like at best two and then it’s like one of them is sort of in a surprise. Like when is the last time we’ve really seen a guy just come in and you’re going, “Oh, that’s a franchise point guard right there.” It’s been a while like and doesn’t can’t scale up to a different position, right? Moran, was he the last one? Scoot or did you think of him as Yeah, that that I felt like I was missing one. Scoot is probably the one. He got the hype. That’s true. Um, does Dylan Harper fit that bill or no? He’s kind of viewed as like he’s got like a combo, right? Because he because the size alone makes him a little bit of an untraditional point guard if anything. Yeah. No, that’s right. That’s a good I hadn’t thought about it. I’ve always viewed as like the the one position fours is what everybody seems to be out on. Yeah. Does like what? Gabe Vincent, does that do anything for you? Like this is I don’t think Gabe Vincent does anything for Gabe Vincent. Wow. even when he’s healthy. Seems rude. Do should they beat the Terry Rosier team? The Terry Rosier Renaissance begins in Phoenix. Uh well, I mean, uh just just make sure that when he subs out, um no, I’m I’m not going to go go there. Uh yeah, they’re in a tough spot, but I do think like they should probably make having a bet like getting a better passer on this team needs to be a priority. That’s where I’m at. Yeah. No, for sure. For sure. Um no. Yeah. this this roster has just a lot of issues. Our next team is the Portland Trailblazers. And I’m asking this question, maybe I’m overthinking it, especially because Dame’s not going to play until next year. But as of right now, are we to believe that one or both of Jeremy Grant is going to come off the bench, or is it more likely that one or both of Shaden Sharp is going to come off the bench? And in which case, do you even want one or both of Shaden Sharp and Scoot Henderson? Like it just feel I know Scoot’s done that for most of his career but at some point don’t you want him to start I so I’m just wondering is there like whether it’s Grant or Holiday are the names I’ve circled because let’s go through this this way. Who would you view as locks for Portland starting five or even closing five next year? I would just say a big whether that’s Klingan or Yang Hansen Tammani Kamar and Denny Aia are just my absolute locks. Yep. Same. Uh, I’m look, I understand that the Blazers had a fun second half of the season and they probably want to like accelerate the rebuild a little bit trying to get competitive. That’s great. Uh, Scoot Shaden should start in the back court. Absolutely. I don’t give a flying f about Drew Holiday or Jeremy Grant’s like uh perceived notions of oh look at my resume and what I can do. No, like this team has to and I emphasis on has to get Scoot and Shaden going to a point where they figure out once and for all what do we have in these guys? Like you can’t you can’t jerk around Scoot anymore. It’s time. It’s year three. You need especially with Dame like in the shadows like of the following season now would seem to be. I just and maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way. If they’re prepared to do this, kudos to them. I just can’t envision $70 million worth of Drew Holiday and Jeremy Grant just coming off the bench next year. No, I but you know what it is what it is. They made those trades and it look if they’re trying to win right now and they’re using those guys for that, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask the bigger questions like are you sacrificing the future of your own organization just to have a good 25 26 that’s ultimately not going to lead to anything substantial like this season? That’s a bad ideology. So if I was to say I’m going to set the over under of.5 of Sharp and Scoot coming off the bench next year. You’re taking the under on that. You think they’ll both start? I think they should both start. I think one of them is going to come off the bench as of right now anyway. May maybe that changes. I’m inclined to agree that that’s what’s going to happen. I’m arguing that it shouldn’t happen. I will say if I don’t think it’ll be sharp, but just because like he feels like if you’re gonna if you need a starting two guard with Simon’s guy, it’s just like it has to be sharp to me. But if you don’t extend sharp and then he’s also coming off the bench, that opens like all sorts of weird conversations and I I very much think that starting lineups can be overrated, but they are they do also help inform what these closing lineups will end up looking like. So, I just have my eye here. I’m not saying it’s anything sinister and I think the Blazers have telegraphed that maybe they’re going to go for it a little bit this year, but they’ve really earmarked 2026 2027 as the season they’ll go for it. #capsock go for it. But I find myself thinking that things would be so much easier for them just developmentally if they moved off of I I mean I guess you just got Drew Holidayiday so you’re assuming he was always going to serve a purpose but like maybe Jeremy Grant but is he too valuable? I know he couldn’t hit a two last year, but when you look at the shooting on this roster, it’s so bad. They traded their best floor spacer in Simons. Dame isn’t playing this year. Holiday is a clear downgrade from Simons as a shooter. And then, didn’t they just sign? They’re the Blake Wesley team, right? So, like, their shooting has gotten worse. I don’t know what to do with that. like the offense feels like even if like I guess I find myself wondering have they even optimized the environment for Scoot and Shaden to develop properly on the offensive end yet. We saw strides from Scoot specifically last year, right? But I would argue what did Sharp average like 18 points a game or something last year. Yeah. I don’t know that I necessarily learned anything about his offense through those 18 points per game. Well, we know that while he has a a shot like a a shot release that looks tremendous, the results are still very very fleeting. And we can talk about that being a direct result of an of a team that wasn’t necessarily like a high efficiency three-point shooting team that didn’t really always optimize floor spacing. We can talk about a general lack of quality all around the roster. I don’t know. What I do know is we saw the last half of last season uh we saw Denny unleash himself there at the very least. So like I think that’s where the offense is going to start. I think the ball is going to be in his hands a lot more. I think Scoot is probably going to play off of that more than be, you know, the guy who takes care of the ball 80 85% of the time. So, it’s probably going to be one of those things where over the first month or so, they’re going to throw [ __ ] at the wall, see what sticks, and then from month two and onwards, we’re going to have a better idea of what they’re trying to achieve. I think that’s fair. I still don’t know what their guiding offensive principles are just yet. I think they’ve made it with the personnel even harder to find it. And what you mentioned about Avdia, I totally think he earned that like what he did last season. But like it even makes me think more like okay like they might just view Scoot as a reserve again at least for the first part of the year until maybe the trade deadline are they shutting someone down or they end up moving someone at that point. That’d be bad. Probably not a hu it’s pro I don’t know if it’s a huge problem but it’s just when you had two years of scoot predominantly I know he started some games being a reserve year three with Damen Lillard preparing to be there in year four just it’s just a little awkward. I’m not saying they can’t play together, but when Scoot is yet to be a regular starter, it’s just weird. Right. Our next team, don’t really even want to have to like I’m just so over this team, Mort. I’m not going to lie. They’re definitely going to trade a guard or two. Right. Right. Right. Please. No. Eh is probably my answer on that one. Um, they should they also I I brought this up with Brian when I recorded the other day. Our good friend Brian Sporic like did we friend my ass? Speak for yourself. Who is that? All right, that’s fair. That’s fair. Did we ever get an update on the Deonta Sabonis? I’m going to have a sitdown with the Kings. Well, we know that he called for them to sign a point guard. They proceeded to add I would you call Dennis Shooter like point guard adjacent or do you count him as a point guard? adjacent. I mean, yeah. So, I would argue that they probably did not, right? And it’s the same with Carter. Carter is also like a point guard adjacent player. Well, they they’re like dangling him and talks with Jonathan Kaminga apparently in the signing trade. Oh, that’s true. And look, Nick Clifford, a big believer in Nick Clifford, but who is pictured here because I forgot to change the image from a stock thing I had. I do not think the King should trade Nick Clifford. That is not what I am saying. Right. Right. Um I I don’t know what to say about this scene, Dan, other than all the fun w vibes of two years are are dead and buried and it’s all very very horrible. I I I no optimism left in this franchise at all. I don’t know what the plan is shortterm or long term. Their salary structure is all over the place. Um, Sabonis, while I love him, is actually also a no three, no D center, which is so difficult to build around. They decided that, hey, the Bulls apparently were great with Sacard Rosen, so why not go after that one more time? Uh, th this is probably going to be year four where they kind of forget that they have Keegan Murray on the roster. It’s as a rule, we didn’t go into rookie extensions except for one team at the end. Uh he’s also extension eligible and his price point that’s a really tough deal for him to negotiate when you look at how his role has fluctuated on offense over the first few years. Yeah. So I mean is this a team that’s just do they have their first year? Just check. Yeah, they do, don’t they? Because they conveyed it this year to it went to Atlanta. All right. But there’s also put it up somewhere else, but it’s top 10 protected next year. But that means that Okay, because my thing is I wouldn’t be shocked if the Kings are, you know, a team that walks away with one of the big three in the draft next year. That it it smells like this season is going to get off the rails pretty quickly. Do you think they’re going to have the wherewithal to pivot into that type of direction? I don’t think they necessarily need to pivot into that direction. What? So, they do own their what what pick is top 10 protected that you’re looking at. I have them getting their own 2026 first. I was looking at spot track where it says let’s see here if 1 to 10 if not Oh, if not already settled with Atlanta. Okay. So, spot track. Yeah, that’s good for them. They just don’t I don’t know if they’re the organization that would pivot into some because also do you know what’s weird about this team? They do have so much NBA talent that I don’t know that even if they’re organically bad like they’re not going to be as bad as like the Pelicans or the Jazz. I guess maybe those are the only teams. Is there any teams you’re prepared to say the Kings are going to be better than in the Western Conference as of right now? Utah probably. But like it’s you the combustibility of this team is huge. just huge. Like Dennis Schroeder is not necessarily not necessarily that wasn’t even the word I was looking for. Is by no means a good vibes type of guy at all. So like you throw him into that locker room equation. He’s not really a point guard. Neither is Malik Monk. Let’s just be real about that. Like his stuff is going to happen out of drives like that. Exactly. Like I love Lavine. Never. Never. You should never cast him as a number one scorer, which that is absolutely the role that he’ll have going into the season. Sabonis still so difficult to build around. Dear just like take 17 shot seconds off the shot clock and then, you know, take a contested fade away from 16 ft. That That’s good offense, I guess. All right, great. Like I I I just think this is a is a roster that like they could come out and win like five of their first 10 games and people will be like, “Oh, look at the Kings.” And then by the end of January, they could have like 12 wins total. Like that’s right. What I guess what do you know what’s so their roster feels so incoherent? What do you even view as their single biggest need? I don’t even have an answer to that. I don’t want to sit here and say a floor general when they have so many guards and I just feel like you have Sabonis and Monk and D Rozan and Lavine and like Nate Clifford and Dennis like there’s enough there I guess but it’s is it another type like are Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray and Nate Clifford are th those your wing types it does a rim I guess right? Yeah, I mean backup center might be their same. They decided that, oh, we don’t need that. We had that for half a season and no, we’re good. We agree that this team is probably going to rank the lowest in the NBA in blocks per game, right? Who is their best shot blocker? Might be Clifford, Keegan Murray, maybe even. Yeah, Keegan Murray does contest a lot of shots at the rim. That’s a good good call out. So bad. Could Orlando Romano doesn’t really need anyone they have though. Like they would be a good maybe Jonathan Isaac team. Like just someone to come in play 15 minutes a game. He could play the five for them. That’d be interesting. But Orlando’s looking to save money. What’s the Kings situ? No, they’re towing a fine line too with the uh that’s why they had to make that um Jonas Valentuna trade. My This team is so uninspiring. Yeah. No, they have 6.7 million in tax base. They they could do some like So Orlando’s looking to get out of the tax. Maybe there’s something there. They don’t really have a but the money is just yeah you’re not giving up and no you’re not going to give up any of those guys. So Jonathan Isaac is basically just out but point taken is they could use a they could use a backup five rim protector. I think they could use another unless maybe knee Clifer is just ready right away but maybe then maybe you have between him Keegan and Keon Ellis you just have enough wings. Uh yeah. Oh god Dan. Dan it doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant. I’m just trying to talk myself in the theory of this roster. You’re you’re sitting there. All the Kings like Jonathan Isaac, dude, what are you doing? What are you doing? It doesn’t matter. You’re putting lipstick on a pig right now. What’s more likely? The Kings trade one of their guards before the start of the season or they extend Zack Lavine. No, more likely to trade one of their guards. Let’s be real. That’s Wait a second. Wait a second. That depends. That depends. Because if Zack is open to like declining that last year and he gets like a flat 30 like Well, how many years out do you have to go then if he’s going to give up million bucks? Probably four cuz what is his player option for? It’s like 49 million or something, right? 49. Yeah. So you that’s 29 almost. Yeah. You know that’s not you there’s no way. Yeah. You you’d have to give him four years even. But if if you’re him four years and 120 you’re getting You know what? You’re right. No, that’s not enough. He’s going to have 35 at least then. All right. No. So, you know what? I’m going to say the trading of a guard. Yeah, that’s honestly that’s that’s the most optimistic. I think that’s the place to leave it. That’s super optim optimistic of us. We’re on to the San Antonio Spurs. You did you didn’t spoil this, but you talked about this a little bit. Could De’arren Fox, he’s going to be eligible for an extension. Um, could they ghost those talks get interesting or no? Because when they acquired him, they didn’t know that they were going to have the Dylan Harper pick. So, it’s like, does do things get a little weird? Do you expect him to still sign an extension? Do you think it’ll come in less than the max? What are you thinking here? If Luca signs the extension, I think Darren Fox signs the extension. That’s where I’m at. Um, but the thing is, what is the extension? Like, would I go full max on this? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I love Dear Fox. I would not go like fullboat max on this one. Um, so it’s fullboat max if the if they stay for the uh that’s the full 30, right? Like like it’s well the 7% increases, it’s like four years and 222.4. Here’s the thing. the Spurs are in such an advantageous position because we are going to see so many guys just say hey we want to get there because they know that that could be a path to a title and they could be part of something very very special there. So that means that they have to look at the Fox and go is this the best player we can get? Is this the best co-star we realistically can get can get to Wimpy? The answer there like they it better be yes if you are extending him because if you are that’s your core that is your like running mate for him. So you have to be sure that there aren’t more exciting better obviously options out there before you do. So, don’t pull the trick unless you’re short. What do you think is like a number that you’d be comfortable doing it at? Throw the Luca stuff out of the equation. Okay. Well, if just throw the Luca stuff out, what is the right number? That’s a really good question. Like, does four for So, you don’t want to give him the max. Is four for 200? Yeah. So, what that that’s 50 a year, right? Uh yeah, 50 a year. By the way, I think he is uh that’s a lot. He He’s been extension eligible for a while. He can sign one through October 20th apparently. So, the fact that we haven’t seen one might be a little interesting, right? That might that actually lends merit to what I thought was a batshit crazy Luca conspir because I just feel like the Spurs don’t operate on that wavelength. Maybe not. But I mean, they just some credence has just been lent to your to your hairbrain theory. Apparently, it wasn’t so hairbrained. Look at you. So, you don’t like four for 200? I don’t. And and the thing is, I actually like Jiren Fox a great deal, but that lack of a jump shot or or well, not a jump shot. He’s got a jumper. Um, a three-point shot specifically. The waxing and waning of it for sure. It concerns the [ __ ] out of me, especially who want if you want to optimize that pairing between him and Webby, that just makes me nervous as hell. So, why does it concern you when WMBBY is already such a good shooter? No, he’s a spacer, but I want like if I’m if I’m the Spurs, I want to make sure that I have someone who is very reliable as an outside shooter who’s also a ball handler. And considering Stfan Castle right now is one of the worst contested three-point shooters in the league, Dylan Harour is a major question mark as a shooter. and then Fox as well where he’s had like what one good year which seems like an outlier year from three and then everything else has been sort of pedestrian. I just don’t feel great about that. Like I want to make sure that if I’m the Spurs and I am leaning I’m putting my chips into the wimpy bag, you know, obviously I want to make sure that everything around him is as is as optimized as humanly possible. Is that the case with Fox there? if you’re paying him 50 million a year. I don’t love it, Dan. I don’t. So, this as someone who’s always counted themselves as higher on Fox’s jump shot than the consensus, this backs up your point. So, over the past four seasons, here’s where Fox has ranked in catch and shoot three-point percentage and then pull up three-point percentage. 2022, the 58th percentile in catch and shoot, the first percentile in pull-up threes. In 2023, 47th percentile in catch and shoot threes, the second percentile in pull-up threes. In 2024, that vaunted season you referenced, the 72nd percentile in catch and shoot threes, the 87th percentile in pull-up threes. Last year, the 35th percentile in catch and shoot threes, and the 14th percentile in pullup threes. So, there’s a lot of I’m supporting your point. There’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying and I say that as someone who thinks that the the pull up two and the step back three from Dearon Fox I’ll forever trust maybe for some irrational reason but you are correct that 2024 was a major outlier for him. It was and it’s something that bothers me because it’s like you know people have this tendency to like see a guy who has this sort of a breakout season and then go oh that’s the new norm automatically and then they expect that to be consistent and then when he like regresses to the means people are like oh well he’ll bounce back again from what honestly like that that wasn’t a bounceback thing that was just him returning to norm so I Look, I’m not going to sit here and say that Fox should be on the FunMax. Like, I’m that’s not what I’m saying. But like if oh, it’s I would much prefer it over, you know, a 30 center. And again, with the secondary, like eventually this team is going to be expensive. It’s going to be very expensive. And if he’s earning 50 million a year and can’t freaking pull up from three at any reasonable rate, then I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say that that could be a bad contract. I’m wondering if it ends up being shorter then, you know, we’re talking a lot about the price point. I’m wondering if this ends up being like a two plus one. Oh, that’s a good shot. Or something. All right. If he doesn’t get an extension, by the way, that’s going to be like a a five alarm five alarm fire for the speculation factory, right? Right. Yeah. Our final team in the Western Conference, the Utah Jazz. Our one rule breaker to extend or not to extend Walker Kesler Mort. This is a rookie extension. I don’t want to talk about Larry Mark in trades anymore. That it doesn’t move me. So, I don’t think that’s a piece of business they need to figure out, but that’s why we’re going this direction. So, you’re asking me if he should be extended? Can I’ll answer my own question if you don’t mind? Great. Yes, I would love that. Yeah, I think they absolutely should extend him. I think that he’s kind of in that tier of player to where you always see these trade packages for him, and I’m sure I’ve maybe even proposed some of them where I just don’t think they effectively align with the value he provides as a rim protector. And I think there’s a lot of, okay, look at what he doesn’t do on offense. He’s not the most switchable big. Last year, Mort, he ranked in the 90th percentile or better of rim contests per 75 possessions, rim points saved per 75 possessions, and shooting percentage allowed at the rim versus expected. It’s that I’m sorry, that was each of the past three seasons, the 90th percentile or better. That’s all per Bball index. Do you know who else has done that over that span while logging at least 10,00 minutes in each season? Tell me. Absolutely nobody. So, I’m not saying he’s the game’s best rim protector, but I do think that he is when it comes to being a conventional rim protector, like transformative. And so, if I’m the Jazz and like the leverage that it seems like teams have with bigs and extension talks, maybe you’re worried about a Jaylen Dur extension coming through for way more, but Mark Williams hasn’t gotten an extension yet. If you’re looking at like if he’ll take Yakob Purle money, like that should just be like done like 20 to 24 million a year like or even Nicholas Claxton money, right? Like aren’t you just pouncing on that if you’re Utah immediately? Yes. Because I don’t understand. Maybe you’re I guess what you’re betting maybe you’re trying to keep him trade eligible if you don’t extend him. He still would be able to be traded, but we know how the poison pill provision works. I just as someone who’s on his rookie scale salary, I don’t know what type of value he’s going to bring back unless you’re including you have that huge trade exception. I know. I just think that that’s overthinking it. And I would argue that he just might be more valuable on his next contract if you’re looking to move him next off season at a larger price point and not have to go through the the rigomearroll of the base year compensation if it’s a signing trade. So, I don’t think they should play any games and I think they should just extend him. There’s also, by the way, I should have mentioned this at the top, he might just be a core piece of their team. Yeah. Um, right. I I don’t have a lot to add to that because Yeah, I I totally agree. I What is the So, I guess my question is what is your walk away price if anything? So, if I’m the Jazz and I we know how restricted free agency has worked for like the past half decade or so where it doesn’t feel like there’s a lot of offer sheets, if I get over the $25 million marker, I’m probably like, “Okay, let’s we’re trying to get something out of this as a more of a team friendly deal.” And so, if he wants more than Nick Claxton got, which was Didn’t he get like four for 100 when he signed it? Yeah, I think so. I’m probably like, you could probably still talk me into if he wanted like start at 25 million and then go up to 26 and 27 and like you could probably talk me into like four for 109 or something or maybe five for 125 or something around there. Uh, excuse me, five for 130. But I my walkway number is probably a lot higher than some other people’s would be. I’ll say that much. No, I I think you’re right. I think a lot of people are thinking about the center spot these days and going, “Oh, well, you can just sign them and it’s not a big deal.” Well, not this type of player. Like the truly Tell that to Charlotte and Boston right now. Right. Exactly. Like the truly impactful defensive centers who have legit size, who aren’t, you know, playing with heart and hustle, who are like 69 and do they do very very well at that that that height level. like this is this is someone with real size, real skill, real influence. Um where you don’t have to like feel like oh like he has to compensate for a lack of size or what like this guy is huge. This guy’s absolutely freaking huge. He is so agile. He’s movable. He’s flexible. He’ll block shots. He’ll he’ll actually run block a ton of them. He’ll grab rebounds. He’s the best offensive rebounder in the league. Uh he’ll hit on put backs. you’ll get lobs like you know if he gets just one or two moves in the post or a counter or a bit of a midi I’m there and he’s only 24 he just turned 24 like four days ago like this guy is not even close to done to to develop yeah I’m paying him he’s like he’s kind of like Miles Turner in a way right where it feels like he’s so valuable but then the trade offers never seem to match up with how valuable he is like Could we get him for like a top 20 protected first round pick or something? And apparently if you’re the Bucks, you just need to wave and stretch Damen Lillard and get Miles Turner. But unlike Miles Turner, he can actually rebound though. Cruel. Can he shoot? He did try to shoot threes when the Jets were like full-on tanking. He’ll probably based off the direction that they’re headed in this year. I think he’s going to be taking some more threes perhaps. Look, if he becomes just a moderately good three-point shooter, like just, you know, 33% whatever. Nate Nate Duncan calls it a party trick. If he has like a party trick three-pointer, like a Jonas Valentunis type three, like it doesn’t need to be. If it’s Brook Lopez, then forget about it. How many like all-star games is this guy making? Right. Exactly. Am I wrong for saying that I like like Walker Kesler more than Jiren Jackson Jr.? Are you wrong? No, but we’re talking current contracts. No, but like Jiren Jackson Jr. is more dynamic. He is like he is and scorer or that. But but the we were talking about Walker Kesler 24 25 million like we agree that that’s like from a value perspective and like what what what is what is uh Jiren making right now? Is it 50? No, he’s not at 50. He’s going to be at Oh, 35. Right. Sorry. All right. Okay. Then it’s not as it reaches. I’m going to withdraw my question. All right. Never mind. So Jiren Jackson, if Jiren Jackson is making double when Walker Gustler makes his next deal, then yeah, it’s probably a conversation maybe. But uh this is I think this is one that people might overthink though and I understand like would you give him as much as Jared Allen got in his extension with the Cavs? Wasn’t that basically like it ended up being three for what 90 or whatever it was? Or is that too high because Jared Allen does like he there’s definitely more switchability there. Um he has more scoring chops for sure. That’s probably a little rich, but that might be if I’m Walker Caster and his agent and like I know my rim protection numbers. I might be looking at that. Yeah. Oh, so Jared was three for 90 about around. Yeah. I mean it be it’s beginning to reach that point where you’re like, “Oh, okay. We need more offense and like you you alluded to it. if we see any type of like real offensive development from Walker Kesler this season just in terms of like again having a legitimate postgame or having a reliable like long two and the occasional three-pointer and or if he just starts hitting like 70% of his foul shots and that seems like it’s sustainable. If we’re seeing just some level of offensive improvement that seems to be sustainable, his price tag is like just going to jump jump. Well, do you think when it comes to restricted free agents specifically and knowing what his best case outcome might be? Do you see a team coming in with an offer sheet next year that would be like make the Jazz a little skittish or anything just because that would be I think that’s the conversation Utah will have behind closed doors is yeah, we really like him. We would pay him a bunch of money, but we’re not scared of someone coming in and giving him an offer sheet for a bunch of money just because one, RFA doesn’t seem to work that way anymore. And two, when it does work that way, like who’s the last big man that got like this massive offer sheet and restricted free agency? Well, first and foremost, let’s identify the players currently on the RFA market who we keep talking about, right? So, it’s Josh Giddy, Cameron Thomas, it’s Jonathan Kuminga, and Quinton Grimes. Those are the four people that we’re talking about like Grimes. Josh Giddy just signed for 5 years and 130 million like right now. I’m just kidding. I wanted to see. Oh god, I thought it’s 1:00 a.m., man. Don’t mess with me. I was like, what? All right, you got me on that one, actually. Um, see, now I forgot my point. God damn it. All right, you were going through the list of RFAS. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So, all of them have major question marks in regards to their to their influence, right? You cannot have a question mark about Walker Kesser’s defensive influence. So like there would be teams out there who immediately would identify Walker Kesler as someone who can add a significant portion of wins to their total whereas like oh let’s go out and sign Josh Giddy. Is your wins total moving in the right direction if you sign him or is it going the other way? That’s a legitimate question. Um the say that like Kuminga does he move the needle at that point yet or is he a couple years away from doing that? Cam Thomas, what kind of role are you looking at for him? Like what is that like? Is he going to be your starting two? Do you want to mess your sixman? God forbid I just propose that he’s going to come after me now. Um but like with with Kesser, those questions aren’t there. You know the impact. you know, he’s going to like help you turn into what a at worst what top 12 defense probably just people would point to and say the Jazz were not a top 12 defense last year. But the but they were also young they were trying to lose. I’m talking about a team that is actually trying to like be competitive like sign him as an asset, right? The Jazz themselves like they were not trying to be a serious basketball team last season. Are you sure? I feel pretty sure about that. Yeah, just a little bit. Little bit. No, that’s a that’s a very fair point. I think I would also be curious. I don’t even know what they ended up being defensively with him on the court because they had the what were they 29th in uh defensive efficiency last year and with Walker 30th they they actually had the league’s worst defense, but I don’t think that was Kesler. I mean, obviously I think that was Kesler’s fault and he should get $5,000 a year. No, they were in the 25th percentile or excuse me, they were in the 18th percentile with him on the floor, which I mean, you got to look at some of the lifts he was pulling. Like if Larry Markin’s at the four, Cody Williams was playing, Sexton. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There some rough lineups he was in. Man, him and Hendricks, I think they could be a pretty formidable front court. Well, too far a field on that. But, so I get your point there. I guess it really comes down to like some of the teams that could technically have cap space next year. Like would they be teams that are gonna be in the market for a big like Brooklyn if they have cap space? Probably not. Chicago could be. They might be a cap space team. Um who else is there? I mean the Clippers could be a cap space team. They’re not going to need a center. The Lakers could technically need a center. DeAndre Aton’s like that’s a onepus one. Uh talk to me about the Pistons. What are we looking at next year? The Pistons. So I guess that a lot if you’re not going to keep Jaylen Duran or Jaden Ivy on the books looking at their cap holds they could technically be a cap space team I would assume. So yeah they’re looking at well they’re negative 18 but with those cap holds so they have oh there’s the Duncan Robinson monies on that as those only that’s only guaranteed for two million next year and Tobias is out. Yeah. And Jay and Ivy has a $30 million cap hold. And Duran has an I’m assuming if you’re getting Kesler, Duran’s not there. So they have $50 million tied up in cap holds for Durn and Ivy. Yeah, they could be a cap space team for sure. All right. I mean that that’s the team for him if anything. Yeah, that’d be pretty scary. I think like Duran’s shown more as a passer for sure. Maybe in space as well. That would be Man, JB Bickerstaff would love him. Mhm. And like I’m not I I love Duran, by the way. I love Duran, but like he’s still what? He’s 610 kill to have his delts, that’s for sure. But he’s shorter. Uh defensively, he’s definitely not as advanced as as Kesler by any stretch, at least not yet. Uh I don’t think he’ll ever be. Offensive potential significantly higher. I’ll give him that. But now that’s a pretty easy Walker Kesler advantage to me. Look, I think it kind of singles out to is it only takes one team to just come in and say like that’s our guy. And like if the Lakers have cap space and the Pistons could have cap space, like that’s probably enough of an existential threat. And even Chicago, like Chicago, who’s Chicago’s big man of the future. Maybe they’ll extend Vuch. Maybe that’s what they’ll do. Why not, right? Well, I could come up with a bunch of reasons for why not, but the Bulls could probably come up with a bunch of reasons. For why? Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. So, do you think to wrap this up, do you think they extend Walker Kesler? I hope so, but no, I don’t think they will. I think they’re going to. And I think it’ll be for 20 plus million a year. I hope you’re right, Mort. This was fun. And we said five minutes per team. We averaged. I don’t even know what the what it ended up being, but two hours and 10 minutes later, the live stream was fun. We’ll be back with the East at some point. Can you just tell our fine listeners, watchers, subscribers, haters where they can find you and all the fantastic work that you do? Well, thank you so much. Uh, you can find my work over at Yahoo Sports. You can find it at Forbes. Uh, you can find it at the NBA podcast. And if you speak Danish, you can also listen to the podcast buzzer beater and Oh, Only Fans, of course. Yeah. How could I forget? That’s my That’s my primary income source. Yes. How could I forget? Until next time, and as always, we shout out to the one, the only, the indelible, the one who could fix every single team’s problem and should be on their radar, Mr. Frank Nila Kina.

Dan and Mort Jensen (@msjnba) from ‘The NBA Podcast’ are going to spend this week going through moves and decisions and every NBA team still needs to make this offseason. First up: The Western Conference!

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CHAPTERS⬇️

0:00 – INTRO
3:48 – Dallas Mavericks
12:12 – Denver Nuggets
30:12 – Golden State Warriors
41:32 – Houston Rockets
48:22 – Los Angeles Clippers
58:27 – Los Angeles Lakers
1:07:14 – Memphis Grizzlies
1:13:14 – Minnesota Timberwolves
1:18:01 – New Orleans Pelicans
1:24:16 – Oklahoma City Thunder
1:28:24 – Phoenix Suns
1:36:38 – Portland Trail Blazers
1:42:45 – Sacramento Kings
1:50:44 – San Antonio Spurs
1:57:20 – Utah Jazz

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