Why BOTH Nuggets AND Rockets Threaten OKC | KOC x Adam Mares

Why BOTH Nuggets AND Rockets Threaten OKC | KOC x Adam Mares

All right, joining me now, Adam Mades from DNVR, from AllNBA. You’re everywhere, Adam. How you doing? I’m doing good, man. Enjoying my summer league. I know. It’s It’s been fun so far. Adam, I am curious about your overall thoughts. I’m sure you’ve talked about them a lot with the Denver Nuggets. I feel like have been one of the winners of this entire off season so far. Valenunis, Dron back on the floor. Get Bruce Brown back. among many other additions. What’s your overall assessment of how Kunky and this remade Nuggets front office has done so far? Well, first of all, I think there’s so many fascinating layers to the Nuggets because they get a rookie head coach, rookie front office at every position. My expectations were low. They didn’t have a lot of assets. So, my first impression is I was surprised. I’m shocked that they were able to do so much. And not just do so much, I a lot of moves I really believe it that I think are exciting. They have depth. Uh they brought in shooting. I mean, they were missing depth last year. They didn’t have any shooters outside of Michael Porter and Jamal Murray. They’ve added a bunch. And then they have this very unique situation with Fionas Valenjunis, a true backup center uh that we haven’t seen really in the Yokera. So, the Nuggets to me did a lot of interesting things and answered a lot of the questions that I just thought were unanswerable going into the offseason. And I think ultimately the big move of all of them was trading Michael Porter Jr. in a 2032 first for Cam Johnson. And to me on paper, as good as Michael Porter Jr. was in his time in Denver, Cam Johnson is just better at some of the things that is going to make him even a better fit next to Joic because MPJ was a flamethrower shooter and he was like a, you know, helpful rim protector, a helpful rebounder. But Cam Johnson, elite shooter off the catch, a developed shooter off the dribble as well. A guy who can attack a closeout, do some work in the mid-range area, can make the right pass, and still a very good defender in his own right as well. Do you view Cam Johnson as worth sacrificing that 22 2032 first round pick for the Nuggets? To me, no question. It’s absolutely worth it because I think Cam Johnson is meaningfully better at the things that are going to really matter about the fit for Denver. Namely, the ability to read the floor, the ability to guard and keep your guy in front of you. Not Not that Kim Johnson’s a shutdown defender, but I think he’s going to do a good job of executing the scheme and keeping the guys in front of him. So, yes, I think it was worth it. I mean, look, the yoga is over. I’ve seen 60 years of Denver Nuggets basketball where it hasn’t been pretty. I think Nuggets fans are prepared for whatever’s coming their way in 2032 and beyond. It’s going to be ugly. But you use that asset to bolster your opportunity right now. And I just think Cam Johnson, this is it’s rare we get uh a situation like this where we’re going to be able to compare two players very very similar in different situations swapping with each other because you always wonder how much does you get a bump playing with Jokic. Michael Porter wants to expand his game. How much does he how efficient can he be? Those questions will be answered this year and it’s kind of exciting. Do you see Michael Porter Jr. as a guy that can do more? You know, I I want to He’s such a talented player. I don’t know if he’s as skilled as he is talented. Like he has this natural feel for the game, you know, on how to score and how to do different things, but in the times when Denver has asked him, you know, without Joic, Joic is out of the rotation or out of the lineup. Whenever those has happened, Michael Porters looked really rough. And I know that’s not a perfect, you know, uh, example because you’re not changing your offense. You already have a scheme and you’re adjusting on the fly. Brooklyn’s going to build an identity around his skill set, but he struggles to to handle the ball dynamically. He struggles to playmake while also trying to score. Uh, so I I my hunch is he’s going to struggle with this, but I’m excited to see him dry. I mean, here’s the thing. I’m not sure he’s going to get that chance. Really? I mean, the Nets drafted four point guards. Yeah, they drafted four point guards. Are they are they going to just not have the ball in the hands of their seven foot point guard, their their 6’2 speedster point guard and Troy Ray and they got their four point guards. All right. Like I just don’t I just can’t foresee that they’re going to say, “Okay, Michael Porter Jr. go to work in isolations.” Like I just I don’t know, man. I’d be surprised. And if it doesn’t work in the first month, month and a half, do you kind of scale back and start to adjust? That could happen as well. But here’s what I’m wondering what you think about this cuz Michael Porter has that huge contract would be max contract and two more years left. This one and one more. If he plays well in Brooklyn this year and does expand his game in a way that would surprise me and it sounds like maybe surprise you. How valuable would he be as a trade asset going into an expiring contract? Cuz if I’m Brooklyn, that’s what I think they’re hoping on is hey give this guy a little room. He’s good. People are going to say yeah we’ll take that. I mean, for them, they already got a very high value future pick. Like you said, 2032, the Yoga might be over. That could be a lottery pick. Who really knows? It’s impossible to predict. And for Brooklyn, a team that’s in asset accumulation mode. Yeah, totally. Or Michael Porter Jr. could be a a player that a contender targets as their missing heats. We need a shooter, right? We need a guy that can do a little bit off the dribble. We need a guy that can do this. We need a guy that can do exactly what he did in Denver or can do more than what he was able to show in Denver. So yeah, I think they trade Cam Johnson for MPJ and a future first. Maybe they can trade MPJ for two future first at some point, right? And then that means you got three first round draft picks for Cam Johnson essentially. Even if it was just one that that you’re it would be two of them. And so and that would be incredible for a guy that felt like you couldn’t trade him just a couple years ago. But if there’s one thing going for Michael Porter and like his own development, Cam Johnson really developed a lot this last year and it and they’re similar enough players that I wonder if the playbook is the same. Like we know what we did with Cam. We’re going to do the same thing for Michael Porter and see if he can handle it cuz Cam Johnson’s off the dribble game. His just like improvisation when giving the ball in isolation or turning this corner on a handoff, it really shined this last year, which is one of the things I’m so excited for him in Denver. But I do wonder if it’s like, hey, we already know what that looks like. Let’s get Porter to do it. It does. it that that is very possible. I think with Cam Johnson specifically, that’s what makes him such an interesting pairing with Jokic. The change with Denver this year is going to be the potential for playing two bigs or at the least having the best backup of Yic’s career. I mean, last year at this time, I was excited for Dron Holmes, the Booth, who is no longer in Denver, drafted Holmes in the first round. I was like, “Oh, wow. They had a center out of Dayton who can space the floor a little bit, who has some versatility. Maybe Denver’s going to want to play two bigs. And then we have this year that happened OKC with Hardenstein and Chad Homer playing with two bigs or one big different lineups having front court flexibility now likely having Yonas Valenunis hopefully Daron Holmes stays healthy. Do you see two bigs as a option for Denver or is this purely about backing up Jokic and that’s it? If you mean Valenunis, I just don’t see it. I don’t know if I see Valunis and Joic together play playing Holmes to me is more of a power forward like an old old school power forward because he’s not that big of a guy and he’s pretty mobile very lean a lean guy and then he shoots the three so well I mean that’s one of the big stories for Don Holmes this summer league so far is everybody you know uh coach Mson the Nuggets assistant coach who’s coaching the summer league team said he’s the best shooter on the team and that the numbers in the gym you know just shooting around have been phenomenal so if if he can provide just that spacing at the backup four then absolutely I could see them play with with Denver. Do you think they’re the best threat the greatest threat to OKC? I think so. And and I, you know, the West is just a it’s just a monster. There’s a lot of good teams and I like this year seating might matter. If you have a long first round, you might weaken you quite a bit, but if you just said in a vacuum those two teams, I think Denver, Oklahoma City will get better because they, you know, their guys will get a little bit older. I don’t know how much different they’re going to get. I think Chad Homegrren off the dribbles game is is one of the things that OKC is going to explore a lot more this year. I think they wanted to do that. He got hurt early on, but I think that makes it more dynamic, but Denver to me, the Jokic problem is still there. I know he struggled a little bit in some of this series. They had two shooters and oftent times one of them was off the court, so you had one shooter. I mean, Oklahoma City really knew what they could do against him. I think giving a little bit more of a balanced offense, he’s uh, you know, he just presents problems and now they have the depth to not completely die whenever he’s off the court. I mean, this is the best depth Denver’s had in years, really. I think so. I would agree with you that they’re the best threat. But ultimately, to me, the big question still with them is what version of Jamal Murray are you actually going to get? Is Jamal Murray going to enter the year out of shape again? Is he going to be up and down super inconsistent once again? Or are you going to get a vers Jamal Murray that looks like the championship year Jamal Murray? Right. That’s the question. There’s that offseason video of him. He looked a little like me. He looked a little heavy at him. It looked like he’s going to lose some weight. I can’t do muscle watch, man. I can’t do it. But I do agree. I I didn’t love I didn’t love the photos. I didn’t love the videos. But, uh, look, this is Jamal Murray’s biggest thing. And and it’s been a growing reputation of his now over the last couple years since the championship. And I think it, by the way, extends to be before the championship. If you look at his numbers in 2018, 2019, slow start, gets in shape later on. But it didn’t really catch up to him until 2024, the the the title defense year, and then especially in 2025, this last year, where now it is his reputation that he does not come prepared for the season. And as a result, Nikolic ends up playing a whole lot of minutes in October, November, December that catch up to him in April, May, and and hopefully June. So this year, I think all eyes are going to be on Jamal Murray. I have no idea. I mean, look, I love this Nuggets team. I agree with you. It’s super deep. That’s versatile. It’s the smartest team. Depth, whatever. It’s the smartest Nuggets team I think they’ve ever had. The Jamal Murray is the the lynch pin. Has Houston with their addition of Kevin Durant and you know maybe Reed Shepard gets into a role this year. We saw him score 28 in his first summer league game. Dominant from three. Their young guys could get better as well. Amen Thompson, Ty East and Jabari Smith. Alper and Shenyun still young can get better as well. They bring back Adams. They add Clint Capella. They have vets. They have youth. Is Houston, you think the second most likely threat to OKC in the West? I I think so. And I you could even swap them with Denver. I think it’s 1A and 1B. The thing about Houston, I do think they’ll have a little bit harder time to scoring. They’ll they’ll rely on Kevin Durant a lot. His health as he continues to age will be a major question. But I’m curious. We kind of give young guys this linear growth and amend Thompson is one of those guys that I would say this is let’s just wait and see because he might have exponential growth. I am so high on that guy. And he figures out, there’s guys that develop skills over time. He’s going to develop skills. But then there’s guys that figure the game out quickly. And you watch him figure the game out rapidly. And so I look at that and I say, man, that might be a two-headed monster out there. It’s like KD and the backup singers. It might be a two-headed round monster just depending on what a man Thompson could do. I mean, look, I think the way you’re talking about a man is the way they’re hoping for Reed Shepard. Yeah. I mean, they they bring back Van Vleet on a new contract. I think Houston’s front office is banking on Reed Shepard being that offensive spark in the back court, not behind Fred Bandley. They need him to be ahead of Fredley at some point. Maybe not this year. Okay, it might be too much too soon. I think so. But you’re talking about exponential growth. Yeah, Reed Sheper got better over the course of the year. He dominated in the G-League. He had some great moments in the regular season as well, including against Oklahoma City. But due to bucket glove, yeah, he’s a three-point assassin from deep range. He’s able to get into the paint. He’s able to get into the mid-range for pull-ups. He’s a great playmaker. I had reached effort at number one on my board, so I’m probably a little bit biased here when it comes to my perspective of what he can be, but I just think so. Houston, there’s so many young guys that are on diff obviously everybody’s on a different trajectory. It’s not always Linu as you said, but Aman Thompson and Reed Shepard are the two guys I think that could really propel them forward when it comes to thinking about what Houston could actually be next season more so than just like KD and Van Vleet and Shenun and all the young guys. Right. So, I think that that’s sort of the way I look at it similar to you with Amen. I think with Reed Shepard, here’s the thing. The especially at the guard position regular season, I think absolutely this could be this this could happen. He has a great developmental year. He contributes. They have a good regular season win loss record. You get to the playoffs and defensively, schematically, everything is so complicated because the game’s getting more complicated and in the playoffs things are getting more intense and I just have a hard time imagining that seven months from now, eight months from now, whenever the playoffs begin that he would be ready for what Oklahoma City, Minnesota, these teams are defensively are going to throw at him for him to solve. So that’s why I think I don’t know how much of a difference he’ll make in their title odds and what they’ll try to do to him when he’s on defense as well cuz he is only 6’2. He’s on the smaller leaner side. So anytime you have a guy of that size, it could be a problem for your for your defense. It just can be depending on the opponents, right? I mean like I think for you know Indiana, they threw out, you know, N Smith is 6’5, he’s their three and Nemhard and Hallebertton in the back court. Neither of them are big, but they’re gritty, tough, smart, smart defenders like Hallebert and not on ball necessarily, but offball he became very reliable. And so, so much of it depends on matchups, too. Just luck of the draw with the path you end up getting, how healthy is your team, all these things that none of us can predict at this point in the middle of July, looking ahead to the next April major, it’s impossible. But one thing we have seen this July, Adam, is the CBA just forcing changes. I mean, like Boston had to blow things up. Stevens was asked at his press conference. You know, why’d you make these moves? Well, we had to make these moves because of the CBA. Otherwise, we don’t. I mean, he’s admitting that obviously. Everybody knows. It’s not like he’s breaking news saying that. It’s been interesting, Adam, for me. Like, I’m back in Massachusetts now, so I’m around all my friends. I’m talking to them more often about the Celtics and all that. the amount of like disappointment there’s been from people just about like wow like we had this team and it we had to break it up because these new rules right like it’s just I feel like a lot of fans are probably down about it you know it’s going to take them a while to catch up too because one it’s complicated I mean we work in the industry and I still have to spend time studying what’s going on half the time because it’s very complex but on top of that it does seem like what the fallout will be is teams rising and falling quicker than before. These seven-year arcs where it’s like, okay, they’re building. They’re on the upswing. They’re at their peak. They’re trying to hold on. That might not happen as much. And I and fan bases don’t follow it this closely. I mean, most fans are just kind of, oh, the season’s here. How’s our team look? And if you’re rising and falling with that much volatility so hard, you have a good roster, but you can’t keep it together. I think it’s good for parody, which is what Adam Silver wants. I think it’s bad for continuity, and it might be confusing. I I’m just really curious. Even in football, you watch teams, they have these five, sixyear arcs. I’m curious if basketball has a lot of five, six, sevenyear arcs. The Nuggets right now are on year 10 basically of an arc. It’s kind of nice. There’s a storytelling that’s involved with it. If teams constantly have to make decisions every two or three years that turn the personality, the identity of the team over. I’m just curious to see how fans accept that and what it does for the overall uh accessibility of the game. You know, it’s interesting because I feel like one of the things that the NFL has always had is like the teams have identities, brands, and you know, that can change over time as well. But with the NBA that wear random weird jerseys at home on national TV games and different courts and you tune, if you’re a casual fan who watches the NBA once every couple weeks, you tune in, who am I watching? And then the players will be changing more frequently as well, right? And so there’s not an identity attached to some of these teams. Yeah. The iconic Nuggets teams, like you could go through the eras, the 80s, it was the same team for 10 years. You know, they’re they became iconic guys. The ‘9s for the Nuggets was a lot more choppy because of some injuries and the fan base disappeared in the ’90s. It’s almost like the Nuggets didn’t exist. 2000s, you get Carmelo Anthony and Andre Miller, Kenyon Martin. It had an identity. And I just I hope the NBA doesn’t lose that in this new CBA where you don’t have that for fans to kind of latch on to. Here’s here’s just, you know, counterargument here. In today’s society, things are moving so fast and there’s so much content out there and the NBA is not just competing against the NFL. They’re competing against Squid Games. Yeah. They’re competing against like your morning stroll on TikTok laying in bed. They’re like content is content. From the NBA’s perspective, I wonder if they would say, “Well, change makes things more interesting. It spices things up.” I’m curious if it plays out that way. Again with with fans I with with sports I think you like the narrative the arcs the rise and the fall I mean this is storytelling in sports guy comes up short but he comes back next year team comes together the missing piece the turnover I just there it’s the hero’s journey type of thing the hero’s journey I think the rolling stone not gathering any moss part of this might I I just worry that’s what it is if you never have enough time to kind of catch on I mean Monte Morris was a beloved nugget he’s just a role player but he was here long enough for you to kind of get to know him and I’m worried worried that those guys might be kind of in and out and in and out. Their argument might be, well, these stories are happening. It’s just happening quicker. Like, it’s happening over three years instead of seven, eight years. It’s like, yeah, but it’s different. Like, the passage of time does still matter. I think what Boston had, they they the rise with these young guys, winning early, really tough defeats, winning a championship is so fulfilling, right? like when you go through those losses, Denver experience that exact same arc going through it and then winning just makes it all the more special in those different types of ways. I think like you know again with Boston 08 Celtics different but you felt it with Paul Pierce specifically with one player who was there for over a decade and went through so many different trials and tribulations and then you put a team around him they went in year one but with Pierce you felt it and so I I I mean look well how about Indiana too though because I want to say Indiana might be the perfect example of this where it feels like they’re on the ascension but they’re not. It’s over. I mean they’re going to have to retool now. Miles Tur’s gone. uh you know that’s a little bit of a special circumstance, but to me them and Boston are the two examples we see most closely so far. And Turner pretty much like I mean he’s saying whatever he wants to say at this press conference, but he said something I’m paraphrasing here. He’s like, well after getting a taste of being so close, I wanted to maximize my chances of winning again. And it’s like, okay, well maybe this is purely about the money. Yeah, I’m sure that’s a big big part of it here. But also maybe Milwaukee does present you a better chance rather than Hallebert and post torn Achilles going to play with hopefully Giannis wants to be there with a team that’s going all in even waving and stretching Damen Lillard. Maybe that team does present you a better chance from his perspective. Yeah, maybe it does. I mean maybe. I mean when we talk about next year and the obstacles they were facing with the health in Indiana, it’s it is entirely possible. I don’t know what to make of that Milwaukee team by the way cuz I throw it out first of all I just kind of like okay they’re not going to be good as I go through it I’m like it could be it’s the East there’s some talent there’s like the talent I love the Kevin Porter Junior’s Gary Trent Junior’s but I mean there is some talent so they’re interesting AJ Green you know Jackson all these guys Milwaukee Milwaukey’s Milwaukee strange I feel I feel like with them man I talked with Bobby Marks about them and for a podcast that may have already aired by the time ours does and Bobby and I agree they just need more shooting theory need more shooting and ultimately that’s going to have to be something they have to do what Denver did trading or their 2032 first round draft pick in order to get more. Yeah. And we’ll see if Yiannis even stays and we’ll see if that happens as well. I mean he was on uh Speed’s Twitch streams. How about Twitch saying probably stays in Milwaukee but no guarantees probably man live streaming. I don’t get that. I I didn’t know about this guy until it happened. You’re not watching Twitch. Not watching Twitch. not watching. I mean, you do you stream? I do stream. You are a streamer four times a week. You’re a streamer, Adam. You’re saying, you know, I only consume my own content. You are a Do you watch your shows back? Uh, I used to. I No, no. I used to though quite a bit when I was first starting out. Taking notes. Yeah, taking notes. Now I’m like, come on. I I don’t You’re a streamer, Adam. There you go. Well, thanks to Adam Mes, uh, YouTube streamer for joining me today. Thanks, Adam. Thank you so much, brother.

Kevin O’Connor is joined by Adam Mares from the NBA Summer League in Las Vegas to break down Denver’s offseason moves, including the Cam Johnson-MPJ swap. Could the Nuggets revamped roster shake up the West enough to challenge Oklahoma City? Plus, the pair dive into how the new CBA could change the landscape of the league forever.

0:00 – Intro
0:14 – Did Nuggets win the offseason?
1:17 – Nuggets trade MPJ to Nets for Cam Johnson
5:56 – Will Denver play with two bigs this season?
7:17 – Can Nuggets threaten OKC?
8:15 – What version of Jamal Murray can Denver expect?
9:29 – Can Rockets threaten OKC?
13:16 – How has the CBA changed the NBA?

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