How the Orlando Magic stack up in the East with Bryce Simons

How the Orlando Magic stack up in the East with Bryce Simons

closer. All right. All right. All right. Welcome to another episode of the Closeup. I’m your host, Stephen Cameron, a part of the Orlando Magic HQ network. Today’s a fun one. We got Bryce Simons, a part of the Game Theory podcast with San Vicini. He’s also got the Pistons Pulse podcast that he is a host on. And he’s just a great basketball mind. He’s got a Substack that he produces a lot of content on about the draft this past summer and then obviously a lot of Pistons convers uh a Pistons related topics because he is a Pistons guy. But Sam is awesome and he really likes the Orlando Magic and we just have a great conversation. This first part is all about kind of the Orlando Magic and the Detroit Pistons and how they fit into the landscape of the Eastern Conference of the NBA. They’re both two teams on the rise. Both of them were playoff teams last year. Um, obviously the Magic made the playoffs twice now. Kind of feel like they’re a little bit of step ahead of the Pistons, but the Pistons are coming. They’re a fun team. A lot of young players. Kate Cunningham is a beast. And um, it’s just a really good conversation. We talk about things we like about each teams, the questions we still have about the teams and their young prospects and how they’ve just been building through this rebuilding phase. It’s really, really fun. Then we do a little bit of a deep dive on the younger Magic players, included the most recent drafted players, Jace Richardson and Noah Penda, who are the Magic’s most recent draft picks at pick 25 in the first round and pick 32. Magic actually traded up for Noah Penda in the second round. And these are players that Bryce really was high on and is really psyched that landed in the Magic and he kind of gives us a nice little breakdown about them and how he thinks they can fit with your Orlando Magic. So really, really, really good episode and we’re psyched about it. Before we get to that conversation with Bryce, I just want to remind you all that Orlando Magic HQ is your home for all Orlando Magic news. We got weekly podcasts. Our social media is super active, constantly giving you all the latest news and happenings around the Orlando Magic. So check us out on Twitter, Instagram, whatever your favorite social media platform is. And if you’re watching this on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. We could really use you all to subscribe. We know a ton of you watch this without actually being subscribed. So go ahead, hit that subscribe button and give us a like. That helps us a lot. If you’re listening to this in audio, go ahead and just, you know, give us a fivestar rating and review. we would really appreciate that. It helps us a lot in the algorithms in the search so it can get our content to more people. Second thing is check out our Patreon program. We have a really fun Patreon program that we’re proud of and um you know there’s a lot of really cool benefits that are going to benefit you, the fans that support us and your support directly helps us maintain what we do and uh helps us pay the bills cuz you know we’re trying to make this happen. We’re trying to do bigger and better things. The more subscribers we get, the more we can do those things. Speaking of paying the bills, let’s pay the bills. We are super psyched to be launching off this new partnership with the Believe Podcast Network and FanDuel. FanDuel is such an awesome sports betting platform. If you’re anything like me, you love a good little sports bet, particularly when the Magic start playing. But right now, before we get to the Magic, it’s the football season. And there’s tons of really cool things you can do from live bets, prop bets, future bets. You can kind of do it all, you know. Week one, there’s such fun stuff. Like a fun parlay idea. Okay, here’s a spicy one for Sunday. Commanders to cover the 6.5 spread. Combine it with a game going over 47.5 total points. Throw in Terry Mlan to score a touchdown. The NFC East rivalry always gets wild. Mlan is been Daniel’s security blanket all year. That’s a fun one that I would be psyched on. I was doing a lot of fantasy football research today and I had a lot of thought going on to the commanders with Daniels and stuff like that and I really kind of like this prop bet that you can go do right now on FanDuel. So, shout out to FanDuel. Check them out. We’re super excited to be partnering with them and we couldn’t we couldn’t be happier to have them a part of our show. All right, let’s dive right into this episode with Bryce. All right, everyone. Like I said, we got Bryce Simons, Motor City Hoops Game Theory podcast, basketball extraordinaire. Bryce, welcome to the show. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to having this conversation with you today. How are you doing? I’m good, Stephen. Uh, peak behind the curtain before your listeners. We tried the intro a couple different times and the one that went through was when you finally said basketball extraordinaire. So, yeah, I think I think that was the ticket there. No, I’m joking. Thank you for having me. Excited to talk some Orlando Magic basketball, some NBA draft. something I love to really do. I don’t know if we’ll talk a little bit of Pistons and where they’re at and relation to the Orlando Magic. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I’ve been listening to your content for a while. Your stuff and your Substack going through the draft is what kept me in tune with kind of what I should be thinking because honestly, like I didn’t do a ton of draft prep this year. I was just in a phase of my life like moving and stuff where I’m like, I just can’t really focus on the draft and like figure out who I want the Magic to take. So, I was relying on a lot of, you know, on the Game Theory show and and Substacks and and a couple other outlets that that cover the draft. So, thank you. And then you and I started chatting a few weeks ago and and I’m glad we’re getting to connect on a on a show. Before we get to kind of like the Magic Draft stuff, Bryce, I want to talk a little bit just generally about our teams. You know, you’re a Pistons guy. I’m a Magic guy. They’re both kind of in a similar phase right now. The Pistons took a massive jump last year. You know, they went from a a team that only won a handful, I think it was like 14 15 games to winning like 44 games last year, which is just incredible. Getting coach of the year again with a brand new coach and JB Bicker staff. Kade obviously just like having that healthy year, showing up being the Cade that we all thought he could be, like a superstar, you know. Then you got the Magic making the playoffs second year in a row. some injuries there. But again, these these two young teams with a lot of talent kind of starting to shape and potentially be these next forces in the Eastern Conference. When you are like thinking about the Magic and the Pacers and just the landscape of the East, obviously things are weird right now with the East like you know Dame is back on the on the West Coast. Injuries, the Bucks are kind of a mystery team. the team that just went to the finals, their best player just is going to be out for the season and their center went to a rival team. There’s, you know, the Celtics just blew it up. Not blew it up, but like they’re taking a year off, like moving major pieces, so retool, whatever the GM wants to call it. How do you see the Magic and the Pistons kind of sitting in the landscape of the East right now? Yeah, it’s it’s really fun to look I mean, both conferences, this is why we do this, right? Like every year I feel like, oh, this is fun or this is interesting or this draft is going to be this or this. It’s every year like every year it’s something different. That’s that’s why we love sports. And listen, the Western Conference is what it is. I I still am fascinated by the Eastern Conference. I So like to completely just give up all of the information here at the top. We recently did this over on the Pistons Pulse podcast, my Pistons specific podcast. if anybody wants to listen to that preview. We’ll have a Western Conference one in a couple weeks, but I have the Knicks and Cavs kind of in the top tier. Like I I just I just do. I have Magic number three, Stephen. Like I have them in my next tier. I have him as the third team in the East. I love the Desmond Bane trade. I know we’ll talk about that a little bit more in terms of what Desmond Bane will be for the Orlando Magic. I’m sure we’ll talk about what they gave up and wasn’t, you know, all of that. I really like this roster. I have loved Paulo Ben Carroll since that draft. I wasn’t doing this fully in that draft um in terms of NBA draft stuff, but he would have been my number one guy on the big board in that draft. Like I just like this is what teams are looking for. This is a jumbo can play the offense through him. He can pass. He’s big. If he really shoots it, like you know, you guys all know who Paulo is. So I love him. Fron’s obviously, you know, outside of the three-point shooting, which is a question and a fair question, but is very incredible otherwise. And then what I like is you look at their cap sheet, they have those four guys locked in, right? Like Suggs and Bane to go with those two guys. So that’s locked in, but I kind of like the young talent on this roster as well. So what I have said is I think Orlando is one year ahead of the Detroit Pistons. Listen, I’m biased. I think Kate Cunningham is the best player between the two teams. I think he’s incredible. Paulo’s not too far behind, but when you look at Orlando having Fron and Suggs and Desmond Bane now, Detroit can’t keep up with that yet. And this is the year they find out, is Jaden Ivy one of those guys? Is Assar Thompson one of those guys? Where is Jaylen Duran? And if they are, then you go make your Desmond Bane trade. Sure. Right. So, I think Detroit is a year behind Orlando in regards to where they’re at in their rebuilt. We called it restoration here whenever it was Troy Weaver at the helm. But, yeah, I think Orlando’s a year ahead. And that makes a lot of sense. You know, like last year, you all went out and got veterans like Tobias Harris um to kind of be a a stabilizing factor for that locker room and and just the presence. The Magic did did that a couple years ago with bringing someone like Joe Engles. Granted, you know, one was a starter, one was a bench player for us. different levels of playing with, you know, one being in their prime, one on his way out of the year, but like the same concept, right? Getting some guys that have had a lot of playoff experience to kind of help shape and mold these younger players, bring some stability. Um, and can I compare it to the the KCP one is like because like that’s what I compare it to. I know KCP didn’t necessarily work out maybe the way Magic I I don’t know. Like it seemed like he had a down year shooting the basketball, but like I was high on KCP. Still kind of am. He just had a bad year. Yeah, I I was as well. I I thought that was a home run signing. I thought it was exactly what they needed. So, what Orlando was thinking with KCP, I think, is what Detroit, they had to add more, but what they thought with Tobias and Malik and Tim Hardaway Jr. And essentially, they did it again this off season. And that’s where they like Malik has his stuff, whatever is going on there. Tim Hardway Jr., yeah, we don’t need to get into that. And then they just replaced it with Duncan Robinson and Caris Levert. And to me, what it is, it is veteran players that allow you to properly evaluate your talent. That’s what those guys do. And I feel like that’s what Orlando thought they were getting in KCP was here’s a really good defender that fits what we like as an identity on the defensive end. And he’s going to shoot the the three ball and give us the spacing we need around Paulo Fron, etc. to figure out what they are offensively or even beyond what we already know. Absolutely. So I think that’s where the comparison and really lies between the two organizations. I initially brought it to to Joe Engles just in that mindset of like before that they didn’t really have a lot of players that had highlevel playoff experience. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that that’s initially why I thought like cuz like Joe Engles culturally was was a was a shifter for us. He he truly did like he was that guy every time out coaching on the side of the bench. you know, he’d have a group, a guy or two, while the, you know, Coach Mosley has the rest of the group, constantly communicating with people. He was also just such a vocal leader. And like, I do agree with you on many aspects about the the value that KCP brought and why they brought him in being a good thing. Granted, offensively, it didn’t work out. I think there’s probably some other things as to why that didn’t work out cuz the Magic in general were just the worst shooting team in the It’s like something’s in the water in Orlando. We’ll see what happens with Desmond Bane and Taius Jones. if the water has been fixed or not. But but yeah, no, it’s been really cool to see Detroit also take those steps because like I’m a small market enthusiast. I kind of always want to go for teams in the small markets even if they’re in the the same conference as the Magic to an extent, right? I can’t support Detroit too much longer because they are getting good. But it’s like always want to root for the little dogs in in my opinion where they can’t just go sign the high free agents, you know, because they want to be there. They have to overpay. I mean, look at the price that they had to pay for for Tobias Harris. You know, that he’s not signing that contract anywhere else. You know, granted, he did used to play for the Pistons. I’m sure there’s a lot of love there, but I just look at these two teams and I’m just they’re fun. You know, they’re teams that are easy to root for. There’s players that are are easy to enjoy. um and their their young upand cominging teams with with the Magic. So, Bryce, I want to circle back to kind of where you were tearing the Magic in the East, right? You mentioned you had them at number three behind the Cavaliers in the Knicks, which I think is fair. My question is like, how are you viewing the rest of the East for that ranking? Cuz there’s a lot of people that are kind of like jumping to conclusions with throwing the Hawks up in that range, too. And I think they did some nice moves, but I also think there’s a ton of question marks there. And I think my second follow-up question is to that is like how far behind do you think the Pistons are to there? Because I think there’s there’s areas where the Pistons could potentially be a top four team in the East next year. Yeah. So, uh, you can count me guilty of jumping too high on the Atlanta Hawks. I am one of those guys. So, it’s it’s I said I have one team in the East, one team in the West that’s going to make me look stupid this year. The Hawks will be the team in the East. the Clippers will be the team in the West. Like those are the off seasonasons. I really liked what those teams did. Listen, part of the Hawks thing is I love Jaylen Johnson. I love Dyson Daniels. I love Nikil Alexander Walker. So like they just added players that I love and I think help you win basketball games. And if and this is what you alluded to, if Christopheringis is healthy, that dude is really really good and I think is going to, you know, add a dimension to that that could be really interesting. So I have them four. So, if I had my tier breaks, Cleveland, New York tier break, Orlando definitely third above the Hawks, but in a tier with the Hawks. I have the Hawks four in a tier. And then I have another tier break after that that is led by the Detroit Pistons right now. And part of that is like Giannis is the best player in the East, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I don’t know if I trust the rest of that roster. The, you know, Miami Heat roster is like I don’t know. I like I love Spo I think is why I even bring them up. This the Sixers should be I was just thinking like we haven’t even talked about the Sixers who have Embiid and Paul George. Stephen I I don’t know what to do. I I don’t know what to do with them. It’s like does anyone know what to do here? Here’s what Philly is going to do to everybody. They’re going to make us all look stupid unless you take a very strong stance. You either either it’s somebody is gonna pick them third and they’re gonna look really smart or you pick them 12th and just buy into the fact that those guys are going to be hurt all the time. You know what I mean? So Philly is really really hard for me to make a decision on. I I think those are the only team like that’s my top eight would be those teams. And so just because of the continuity of Detroit, they do have Kade Cunningham, younger guys growing, year two of JB Bicker staff. I have kept them in the five, six range, like just above, excuse me, the playin range is where I’m looking at Detroit right now. Yeah, I I can see that. I’m hoping that we see a little bit more of a jump with them or just like, you know, I I don’t want to root for Philly. I I’m in Orlando. I don’t want to root for the Magic. like it would be easier for me to get behind a continued like good run with the Pacers growth, you know? I I want to see Thompson continue to take that step. He’s such a young exciting player. Why am I spacing on his name? The guy that Cole Anthony had that accident with. Oh, Jaden Ivy. Jaden Ivy, man. Like, dude, I was so high on him on the draft and like he was having such an awesome year. It’s It’s unfortunate that we’re talking about him in the same way that like like he got injured with an Orlando Magic player unfortunately, but it’s just like he was so good last year and having such a good year. I’m excited to kind of see where that comes out. And JB Bickerstaff’s just like a good coach, you know? So, it’ll be interesting. I’m I’m hoping good things for them. Question for you. Back to the Magic cuz this is a Magic focused podcast. the bench. You you are uh someone who really enjoys talking about, you know, younger players, their development from the scouting, from their, you know, draft prospects in into the early years. And the bench has got a couple of players that are that a couple of slots that are being really relied to by younger players. Anthony Black um playing next to uh Taius Jones. And then there’s a little bit of question marks on kind of like the three spot. you know, there it’s probably going to be, I imagine, Tristan D Silva jumping into that. There’s also going to be a lot of staggering. Mosley does like to do some good 10-man rotations at times. So, there could be some all-bench units. There’s the, you know, with with Mo Vagner being out for a little bit, you know, maybe even just taking a little bit of time to find himself. He could technically be ready for the start of the season. Sounds like his recovery is going very well for that projection, but again, it’s it could take some time. How do you see the younger players in the second unit growing? I mean, do you have faith for them to fill out? Because like Anthony Black, we all know he’s a really good um a really good defender. He’s, you know, struggles to finish at the rim sometimes. He’s obviously a very inconsistent shooter and even a low volume shooter from three. His playmaking like he has moments where he’s running pick and rolls really well and then there’s times where it seems like he’s still really overthinking a lot of stuff. just kind of want to get your gut check on a player like Anthony Black right now and and what you think he potentially could develop this year as, you know, a thirdyear player. Yeah. So, I mean, whenever I did this for, like I said, the Pistons podcast, you know, not even knowing we’re going to do this one or win or whatever, um, you know, I I mentioned earlier the core four locked in the defensive identity. And then I mentioned as a positive for me was the young rotation upside on the roster. you know, you you guys made a trade for Desmond Bane and you still have all of these young guys in a Anthony Black in a Tristan Dilva and then the two draft picks and Jace Richardson and Noah Penda. That’s exciting to me whenever I look at the Orlando Magic roster. Now, it’s exciting because I like those guys. I was high on them coming into drafts, but then they have to play out, right? Like they have to contribute. I guess my answer for Anthony Black is like I just think that’s a really good role for him. If Anthony Black was trying to like start in the back court with Jaylen Suggs, I would come on here with a little bit more like, hey, are we fixing the three-point shooting in the starting lineup? Is this really what we want? But putting him in the second unit with Taius Jones, yes, sign me up. And you know what I mean? Like Anthony Black is going to destroy second unit perimeter players defensively. And then now he has Taius to play on or off the ball for him, right? You want to use I think he’s an underrated like cut. Not maybe not by our Magic fans, but I think he’s a good cutter and has a good feel as an offthe-ball player. The shooting is a concern. Always has been. But okay, we’re going to play the ball in Tyus’ hands or we’re going to stagger Fron into the second unit. Anthony Black can cut and move off of those guys along with doing some stuff with the ball in his hand. I understand the offense is a question, but I think for a second unit player that it isn’t even a guy that you’re solely relying on in the back court, I think that’s a very good role for him. I mean, right, we could make the argument he’s the fourth guard on this team behind totally Suggs, Bane, and Jones. Yes, give me Anthony Black as my fourth guard in the rotation, and I’m happy. It seems like they’re starting to they tried the point guard experiment with him last year, which I’m not going to say went bad, but it wouldn’t say it went amazing either. And it seems like they’re with the addition of Taius Jones, it’s let’s maybe develop you and shape you a little bit more as a secondary playmaker on this team and not the primary of the second unit where cuz you’re going to stagger Fron or Paulo with that unit. You’re going to have Taius Jones who is a really nice on ball handler but can also play offball as well. So I think there will be plenty of opportunity for him to still be a playmaker with the ball in his hands. But it’s almost like maybe they are starting to envision him more of like a bigger guard, smaller wing that can playmake in a sense depending on the situation is you know inbound play or you know in transition who’s got the ball or whatever. Real quick, that transition would scare me if you were talking about him being a starter, right? When you’re talking about bringing him off the bench, it’s much more palatable. And here’s what I would say. I have I I feel pretty good that Anthony Black is going to be able to play 82. I mean, if I’m not saying he played, but be a 82 game player. When I say 82 game player, I mean regular season, 16 game player, playoff guy. I could see if the shot doesn’t develop in some of that stuff where playing him in the playoffs may could be a little bit of an issue. That makes sense. But like we’ll see that here in year three. But I agree with you that it that could be a really fun role for him because listen, you guys might have the best cutting team in the NBA. Like when I I go back through things like I think Fron is the best offball cutter in the NBA probably. I thought Tristan Dilva was the best offball cutter in that draft. And I was just reading through my notes now on Anthony Black and like another guy like for a guy who a lot of people thought on ball he has great instincts as an offthe-ball cutter as well. Like I just love that aspect of the Orlando Magic team. I do too. I I was like a little annoyed at times when Fron got so on ball heavy because it took away a lot of his Swiss Army knife offball movements, you know, and he is so such a good mover offball. Um and I mean I know we’re kind of talking about the second year, but you brought up Fron. I will always take a moment to praise Fron when I can. And yeah, I I’m looking forward to that. And they brought in Joe Prunty as the new like offensive coordinator. So, I’m hoping we see more offball movement because we do have guys that are good cutters, but at the same point, there were so many times when the Magic’s offense just looked so stagnant and there was no ball movement or offball movement. It was, you know, maybe you’d find a trailer, the occasional cutter, but it’s like there’s guys that had so much more potential to where you just stop standing around and just watching them iso. Like, let’s move around and create some more opportunities with cuts and moving off screens to to generate some movement there. And I’m hoping with the addition of Prunty that we can get more of that. Also, with the addition of having guys like Desmond Bane who are elite at that kind of stuff. Give me like your two thoughts on on Tristan Dilva. Then I want to talk Bane before we get into Noah and Jace. Yeah, I mean listen, Tristan D Silva again, big time off the ball cutter. You know, another guy, you know, comes down, can he make shots? My thing with him defensively even coming out of the draft was I didn’t love him at the point of attack. Like he’s not like your, you know, Jaylen Suggs, Anthony Black, you know, those type of guys, but I think he’s a really good team off the ball defender. So when you look at the roster again, I I feel comfortable like if slotting Tristan Dilva into like that threeman, you know, like the the small forward position or whatever, if you have a, you know, two deep 10man rotation. So I like that. And listen, if I’m Orlando, I start the season with that. And then if I get into the season and I’m like, you know what, we’re real contenders. Our starting lineup is crushing it. Taius is exactly what we needed. We have this plethora of centers. Like, can we get Goa Patzi somewhere that he gets more minutes? Um, I know Orlando fans don’t want to lose him. I just love Goa. I’m indifferent. Yeah. Okay. But like then if you need that rotation wing or whatever because Tristan’s just not ready yet in the playoffs or Anony’s not ready, then you go make that move, right? Like you you make that move there. To me, I think they’re in a position where you let those guys start the season in those roles or or I would that that would be what I would want to see and do if if I was Orlando and and see how they’re able to progress here in years two and three. I was pretty happy with his rookie season in general. He like showed the the high level like the high IQ that it was praised for coming out of Colorado. He showed the confidence that you would expect with a year four player, but he still also had like plenty of rookie moments where it’s like, okay, you you clearly missed that defensive read or rotation there. Even though he is a good defender, like there was definitely times where, you know, you could tell he was just like a rookie. Yeah. You know, offensively they did, you know, every now and then you’d see him like run a play which was cool, but for the most part they had his role fairly limited. But I that coach Mosley was in a press conference earlier this year and he mentioned like Tristan Silva is going to be a big part of our rotation next year. And so I’m I’m looking forward to seeing how that plays out. And it also kind of like, you know, justifies sort of the lack of bench unit improvement outside of Taius, right? They they really are just going to rely on guys that they already had that are very young. And I think that’s cool because it speaks a lot of trust on those guys. For a year, an offseason that the front office is clearly going in in a major way to improve this team. Like they didn’t have trust in those guys to take steps, I don’t have a doubt in my mind they would have gone out and looked for the replacement, which is how aggressive they were in free agency, how aggressive they were trading for Desmond Bane, how aggressive they were even in the draft, trading up for No Appenda, right? So, like with just that aggressive mindset from a front office that hasn’t been aggressive, I just feel like they they truly trust these players to take the step that we need them to take take to, you know, to be a solid second unit. Yeah. I mean, when you look at the roster, they kind of have to be, right? Like, I mean, I I’m not the biggest Jet Howard guy. Um, and so when you go outside of that, like a lot of the other guys that we I mean, we’ve mentioned their names, but out if you take away the rookies and quote unquote bigs, it’s Tristan D. Silva. Yeah. Taius Jones and Anthony Black, you know what I mean? Like it those are the guard wings that you have on the roster right now. And so, like you said, it does look like a vote of confidence from the front office to those young players. We’re not going to talk about him, but I have the I still am one of the few that has like the smallest amount of real estate on Jet Island. I’m still I’m still there a little bit. I’m like, yes, he’s overpriced. If he was making 2 million, not five be like total different conversation. But it’s it’s okay. That’s a conversation for another day. Let let’s talk uh Desmond Bane for a few moments before we talk about the rookies. That was a big trade. It was one of the earlier trades, earlier moves in the off season that kind of um you know a lot of the NBA world. I wouldn’t call it a blockbuster, but it was certainly a very very big trade for a team that hasn’t made big moves in a very long time. when you saw that trade go down or Magic trading four second round first picks including the one that has the Phoenix uh rights to it and a pick swap um and you know KCP who you and I both agree we like that signing at the time and Cole Anthony I’m not sure 100% where you view on Cole but what did you think about that trade initially um just going from there? So, I love that Orlando identified a player that makes a ton of sense for their team. Like, first and foremost, I think Desmond Mane he makes a ton of sense. Like, he he he doesn’t have to be the defender that he isn’t because you have Jaylen Suggs and you have Fron and you have Anthony Black and all of these guys, right? I’m not saying Desmond Bane’s a bad defender. I’m just saying like you’re not putting him in a situation where it’s like, “Hey, not only do we need you to score 20 a game, we also need you to guard the other team’s best perimeter player.” You know what I mean? He’s not in that situation. So, that’s great. I I think they identified a really good player. I think they paid a steep price, Stephen. Like just straight up, I think they did. That’s a lot of draft capital. I think we’ve gotten to a point in the NBA where we can’t just compare things one to one, right? Because I mean like Muel Bridges got traded for five first, but Luca Donuch only got traded for what Luca got, you know, I mean, yeah, you know, and like player value, pick value, not all first round picks are created equal. And at the end of the day and and this isn’t like an original thought, but the value of something is what somebody will pay for it, right? Totally. And what it takes for you to acquire it. So how I envision this, and I don’t have intel or stuff like like Sam has, you know, talks to people. I don’t talk to people like I watch games and I form opinions. My out very outside perspective is Memphis probably wasn’t like shopping Desmond Bane. Or maybe they were. Maybe that’s why the price was so high. And we h we don’t know about another mystery team that was out there that had a big offer. I just kind of envisioned this being like Orlando identified a player good for their NBA scouting department, called Memphis, and Memphis says like, “Hey, if you want him, this is what it’s going to take.” And Orlando decided it was worth it. And that was a big price. Are any of us going to care if Orlando ends up in the Eastern Conference Finals this year and in the NBA finals the next couple years? I I don’t know that we will. The other thing is, like we’ve talked about, they have the young talent, and I know you want to continue to replenish that, right? Like, I I understand the value of draft picks or be able to trade for rotation players, whatever. But your two best players are young. Your Suggs is Suggs is awesome. Also, three of your four best players, without getting into an argument or somebody or getting Magic fans mad at me, three of your four best players are extremely young. We just talked about all these other young players. you still drafted two guys in what the top 32 or whatever in this draft. It’s going to be okay that every other year for a few years you don’t have a draft pick. I think I think that’s okay as long as he is the missing piece. If he’s not, then we’ll look back and we’ll be like, “Hey, not only did they weigh overpay, but he wasn’t the player, he wasn’t the missing p. If they’re still 29th in three-point shooting and bottom whatever in offense, it’s going to be looked at as a negative deal. Even if it’s not Bane’s fault, it’ll go to Bane. That’s what happened with KCP. Correct. You know, it looked great and then it looked bad. It will all fall on Desmond Bane. Like if if they are top 15 in offense this year, who’s going to get the credit? Desmond Bane. If they’re still 29th, he’s probably going to be the guy that’s like, “Hey, he he wasn’t what they need.” Now, there’s some caveats there, like maybe Fran still doesn’t shoot it. Maybe Paulo doesn’t, you know, whatever. But yeah, but in general, that’s what it’s going to come down to. And that’s what’s fun about this. I always like to think about the process, right? Cuz I think the process of the KCP signing was right. The end result wasn’t what we thought. I thought the process made sense. I think the process here makes sense, even though I do think it was a large price to make it happen. But here’s the thing, Stephen. Like, what would we be talking about if they had made nothing? What if what if they wouldn’t have made a move? How would you feel today if they were essentially running it back with last year’s roster? Wouldn’t we be screaming at the top of our lungs and predicting them to be the six seed in the East? And I I I think that’s a worse situation to be in. Totally. I I I agree with pretty much everything you said. I am I am one of the few Magic fans that even though you’re having to move off of what has turned into a negative contract with KCP to an extent, a contract that’s not necessarily a bad contract, but not like like the the Cole Anthony contract. It wasn’t like bad. Like no one’s going to look at that and be like that’s a bad contract. I mean, like, he’s getting paid 13 million. It’s a team option on the next year. Like, pretty easy contract to move around. And I still think there was plenty of teams that look at KCP and just see like, yeah, that was a like it just didn’t work out. Bring him over here. Maybe he’s not peak KCP anymore, but he’s probably going to be a lot better than what he was last year, at least offensively. But I do think like, yeah, if it was three first rounds in a swap, probably a lot more level there. There you go. You know, four first rounds, like, but again, what are we talking about here? If it works out, no one’s going to care, right? It’s like back in the day, the Magic paid a huge price as a free agent for Rashard Lewis. Well, that team went to the finals. It went to the Eastern Conference Finals twice. No one is looking back at it today caring that the Magic SP paid a huge price to re, you know, go sign Rashard Lewis and, you know, make them that like that next step that they needed to be uh during the Dwight years. So, if this helps the Magic, like you said, get to the second Eastern or the Eastern Conference uh in the playoffs this year or the finals even, like, you know, no one’s going to blink an eye. If in two or three years they have a championship out of it and can beat someone out of the West, then yeah, no one’s really going to care. And like you mentioned, these next these four players are locked up for a very long time. If for some reason it doesn’t work out, you can trade one of those guys for some picks back and probably recover a decent amount because they’re all young enough and skilled enough unless a major injury were to be part of the reason they didn’t work out, you know. And so I will give you this. We talked about the Pistons being one year behind. If Detroit had done this deal, I don’t think that would have made sense. I don’t think we’ve been talking about it in the same light because I don’t know that whatever salary m like it probably have to have been what, like Tobias Harris and something else. whatever the salary match would be, right? Like Tobias Harris and Isaiah Stewart or something like those whatever. Like people understand what I’m saying. A couple players and all of the Pistons draft pick like Bane’s awesome, but are we sure Detroit’s ready to compete at that level, right? Are we sure? Because it’s like Kade and Bane. Okay. Well, but what else is a SAR ready yet? Is two more question marks on that team that have to be answered. Orlando has some questions, but it’s just like that core seems a little bit more. Here’s another aspect I think is important. Jamal Mosley’s in year five with Orlando. JB’s in year two. And that was one of the big things I talked about whenever I went through the standing stuff as well. You know, Orlando has gone 22, 34, 47, 41 with injuries even last year. Like Detroit went 23, 24, 14. Okay, 40 plus. That’s great. It’s one year. You know what I mean? And so I’m just using Detroit as an example because it’s easiest for me. But that’s why I that’s why it’s okay with me with Orlando is it’s the right time, let alone the landscape of the East where if I’m Orlando, I’m looking at this going, we can be the Cavs haven’t shown it in the playoffs yet. And the Knicks have they already took them to seven two years ago. Yeah. And the Knicks, you know, have progressed each year, but new coach, like we see new coaches fail all the time, you know what I mean? So why not think that you have a chance to go and make a run? And we see it every year in the playoffs regular season. Injuries, you know, can completely, you know, one injury to one of the big four in Cleveland, one injury to one of those guys in New York, and all of a sudden we’re sitting here January 1st saying Orlando’s the favorite in the East. You know what I mean? So, totally. I I’m very okay with their process and what they did, even if at the same time I can say, “Yeah, I would love if it was three first round picks and a swap instead of four.” Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, you know, okay, it’s one extra pick. It’s not the end of the world, you know. It’s a large package in general. All right, one quick question. What is your biggest question that each team has to answer uh this season? Like, what’s what what do you want to know about the Pistons and about the Magic this season? For Orlando, I want to know, we’ve talked about, I want to know, this is a copout. I want to know what the offense is like. Is the has the offense been personnel based? Has it been coaching based? Because you’re right, like this team has too many good passers, too many good ball move off ball movers to not like just have a real nice flow and should be enjoyable to watch and create good looks and and all of that. So that is my big thing there. And I’ll say this, like I want to see if Fron can shoot the ball. Like I love Fron. It like it was painful sometimes last year. Every time I turned on the film, he was shooting it different it looked like and I’m just like come on man. Like can we figure this out in the offseason? So that that’s my thing with Orlando. With Detroit, I am giving them till the deadline. They still need a little bit more data collection. And not to get into the weeds on this because it’s a magic podcast, but I said this the other day, their biggest losses weren’t the fact that they lost 28 straight games and how many ever games with Monty Williams and all the games before that. The biggest losses was the data collection they missed out on on all those years. The Kade Cunningham injury season, last year, Jay Nivy’s injury season, Assar Thompson’s blood clots two years ago being an absolute dumpster fire where there was no growth, no evaluate. You can’t take anything from the Monty Williams year because it was a poorly constructed roster and a poorly coached team. And so there’s still, even though they made the playoffs, Stephen, there’s still a lot of data collection. We know who Kate is. Who is Jaden Ivy? Who is Assar Thompson? Who is Ron Holland? Who is Jaylen Duran? And so I I think they need 50 games. We’ve never seen those guys play together, Stephen, is what’s crazy. And so that I mean, we have, but it’s very few minutes. Yeah. So, exactly. It’s like I want to We didn’t see him last year. So, I I got a little fired up there. Last year, we saw very very because of Assar’s blood clots and then Ji’s uh broken leg, but I want to see that to I want to see that and collect that data and then you can make the next decision. They they may make the their Desmond Bane trade at the deadline, but I did not want them to make it this off seasonason because I still want to be able to evaluate those guys in a setting that’s actually conducive to doing that. And that’s fair. I think um you know the Magic last off season or last season at the deadline fans were begging them to make a move and they said we don’t have enough data on our team in the playoffs yet to feel comfortable about sending out assets for players that might not be here in a year or two, right? Um which made total sense especially now when you look at the move that they did make to retain a guy, you know, to trade after a guy they can have on the team for, you know, four years. So, um, that makes a lot of sense with Detroit. You said Ji’s leg injury, and I know you’re talking about Jaden Ivy, but immediately thought of Jonathan Isaac. I’m just little PTSD on my side. Just I just a little funny mental note there. Um, but yeah, I I I’ll give you my quick question, my quick two thoughts on the team, like my question marks. Um, I for for the Pistons, I’m, you know, I really really like Jaden Ivy and I loved what he was doing next year. I want to see what him and and Thompson look like next to each other, you know, just, you know, a part of the rotation because like you said, there’s no questions on on Katie. He’s a superstar. He’s only going to get better, you know, but I just, you know, I want to see where where Thompson’s offense can can get at too going into year three as well. Yeah, year three. And I want to see I just want to see continue to see what Ivy can do because he’s such a fun athlete to watch. He’s he’s great for the Magic. Like what’s up with the centers, you know? Like we have a lot of them. I do think a lot of people are a little are underrating Wendo Carter because he did have a he hasn’t been great offensively in in a few year in a season or two now. And can he be a good enough offensive player to be that starter for them or do they need to look to replace him? But if you’re going to look to replace him, it’s really hard to find a center who can kind of like Wend Carter can take switches like one through five. It’s, you know, like you don’t want him guarding point guards all the time, but if he gets switched on to him, like he can handle it for a moment or two before they can re-calibrate their defense, which is pretty rare. Like in the playoffs, he was a switching machine against the Celtics. And it it made life very hard for the Celtics. So, I do think there’s challenges in finding that type of defensive center that can play the style that they want while also fixing the offense. So, we’ll we’ll see what happens there. They have a little bit of time to figure it out, which is nice. I’m like someone who likes Goa, but at the same point, if Mo is healthy, he’s playing in front of Goa, then you’re paying a third string center 89$9 million to sit on the bench. Like, seems like you could probably better allocate those assets elsewhere. So, I don’t know. I just kind of want to see with this team healthy and hopefully the offense, I’m going to assume it’s at least league average. What’s the move for the center? I think that’s a on a lot of Magic fans minds is let’s improve the center rotation. Um, and I just think that’s going to be hard to do. That’s interesting cuz like I always look at like, man, that’s just like a good center room, you know, with like all of these players, but then you do go like, okay, is the high-end ceiling of it enough for Magic fans, you know? So, it’s interesting that maybe if Magic fans at times want to see it improved or some growth from that room? It’s interesting. Everyone wants a, you know, like a stretch five rim threat. Yeah. In the center position, and that’s just not what Wendell Carter is. He’s someone that can shoot the three, but it’s like 33%, it’s not very great. Fairly low volume, like maybe two or three attempts per game. People like basically like they want Vousvich in an offense with Wendell Carter’s defense and that’s just like not going to happen. And so I don’t know. I’m fine with Wendell Carter. think there’s enough offense around him to where they especially with the addition of Desmond Bane where they don’t necessarily need him to be a guy that’s scoring 15 20 points go get you 10 and 12 you know 10 points 10 to 12 rebounds a game and like let that be your thing and then you know in the second unit Mo Vagner is an offensive machine um but he is for all the points that he puts on the board half the time he’s giving that up anyways on the defensive end is a really good defensive player but a very limited player in what he can actually give you on the court. He played just over a thousand minutes last year despite playing over 70 games, you know, and then again, if this team’s healthy, Goa, who is a solid backup center, gets shifted to the third unit. So, like, we have depth there. It’s just is it the right depth is the question, you know? So, I don’t know. I think I’m a little more patient with it, but it’s something that I’m going to be looking at pretty closely this year. Nice. All right. That wraps up part one of my conversation with Bryce Simons of the Game Theory podcast with Sam Vini. We have a great time talking together about the Orlando Magic and Detroit Pistons part two. It’s all about the young guys in Orlando. We’re talking Anthony Black. We’re talking Tristan Dilva. We’re talking Chase Richardson. We’re talking Noah Penda. Stay tuned for that. Reminder, check out FanDuel. All right, there’s a lot of really fun things you can do there. Right now, if you wanted to go bet on the Orlando Magic to win the NBA Finals or plus,700. That’s pretty good for a team that’s expected to take a big jump this year. You just heard Bryce and I talk about how high we are in this Magic team. That’s a bet I would really consider doing right now. So head over to fanduel.com, shout out to Believe Podcast Network, and we’ll catch you on the next episode, part

Host Stephen Cameron welcomes Bryce Simons from the Game Theory Podcast and The Pistons Pulse. Overview of the episode’s focus on the Orlando Magic’s strategic moves and young talent.

Discussion on how the Magic stack up against other Eastern Conference teams. Analysis of the impact of recent trades, including Desmond Bane, on the Magic’s playoff prospects.

Insightful comparison between the Orlando Magic and Detroit Pistons’ rebuilding strategies. Examination of the timeline and key moves that have shaped both teams’ current rosters. Highlighting promising young talents on the Magic roster, including Jace Richardson and Noah Penda.

Bryce Simons shares his thoughts on the potential and development of these players. Bryce Simons provides expert analysis on the Magic’s strategic direction and the Eastern Conference landscape. Discussion on the importance of player development and the role of coaching in maximizing talent.

Find Bryce Simons on X @ MotorCityHoops, or on The Game Theory Podcast, or Pistons Pulse Podcast.

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