CROSSOVER: Pistons and Rockets COLLIDE in Epic Rebuild Showdown | Will DETROIT Catch Up to Houston?

CROSSOVER: Pistons and Rockets COLLIDE in Epic Rebuild Showdown | Will DETROIT Catch Up to Houston?

Today’s episode we have a locked on pistons and locked on rockets crossover with me Cukahill and Jackson Gatlin. We’ll get into how these rebuilds have grown over the last 5 years and how they compare to each other. Today’s episode locked on Pistons and Locked on Rockets. You are Locked on Pistons, your daily Detroit Pistons podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. What’s the deal? Welcome back to another episode of the locked on pistons podcast. You guys are also listening over on locked on rockets. I appreciate you guys making locked on pistons and rockets your first listen every single day. We are free and available on all your podcast platforms. I am your host Kr. I’ve been covering the locked on Pistons or covering the Detroit Pistons, excuse me. Over the last four years for the Lock on Network, three years I’ve been a credential media member. That’s Jackson. He is host of the Locked On Rockets podcast. He is one of the best at the network. Absolutely love Jackson. Today’s episode is brought to you by Game Time. Download the game app, create an account, and use code locked in NBA for $20 off your first purchase, all that good stuff. Hit that subscribe button, five star review, all you guys get all that. Um, but Jackson, is this the first time we’ve done a crossover? I’ve been here for four years. This is the first time we’ve done one. It is actually, which is kind of crazy because you would have thought that during like the the real down bad years that we would have been like, you know, just Misery loves company. We would have been like hanging out just, hey, like let’s take a look at these lottery picks. Like, what’s going on? Bottom of the barrel teams got to stick together. And now Pistons are on the come up just like the Rockets. They took their step forward. I think the Pistons are poised to take another significant step forward this year. And that’s one of the things that we’re going to be looking at in today’s episode is kind of the trajectory of these two teams. Right. The Rockets maybe a little bit ahead of where the Pistons are at right now. Kind of analyzing some of the, you know, the decisions that the Rockets have made along the way. Some of the things that we can maybe expect from the Pistons. You know, are they are they close enough to maybe make an all-in move of their own right, similar to how the Rockets did with their KD blockbuster trade this summer? We’re going to get into all that. It’s going to be a fun episode. Yeah, that’s that’s an angle I can’t wait to get to. We’ll definitely talk about that later. Comparing where the Rockets are at right now, who just traded for Kevin Durant to where the Pistons are right now. We’ll get into that much later. But let’s start with five years ago. These teams were I mean, they start at the exact same point. Basically, they were both rebuilding around the exact same time at the at the time of the Kade Cunningham Jaylen Green draft. Like that seemed to be like the both teams franchise player. Now, obviously, Sanguna ended up elevating to being this franchise guy for you guys. You guys ended up getting Kevin Durant for Jaylen Green, but the Pistons and Rockets were coming up at the exact same times. I want to talk with you and just ask you this. Obviously, the P or the Rockets are at a good point right now. They’ve gotten to a good spot. What was the process like? Were there times where you felt like don’t know where this is going? This might not be going the right way. Or was it just smooth sailing? like what was this process like now that the Rockets are considered contenders in the Western Conferences? What was this process like? Yeah, I think that you know obviously the down years are really rough, right? So that the actual rebuilding years, the tanking years, the Rockets like they they like to call it phase one of the rebuilding process. Um those years with Steven Silus as the head coach, those were some real lean years, right? 17, 19, 20 wins. Like it it was brutal. Um, and so it was really hard to, you know, not miss the forest for the trees, I guess, back then because when you’re in the trenches, when you’re living it every single day, either as a fan of an organization, as a media member covering an organization, it can be a lot, right, to deal with the, you know, 50 plus, 60 plus, you know, lost seasons, a lot of negativity, a lot of question marks about the future. really the biggest stepping stone and the biggest point moving forward for the Rockets and I think this is actually the case for the Pistons as well, right? Coaching has such a significant impact and you bring in the right coach, a guy that can get guys to buy into a scheme, to buy into a culture or to establish a culture, I should say, and to have an identity, right, for for an organization that pays serious dividends. And I think that’s what the Rockets established when they went out and got Emodoka. they had done their, you know, three years of losing their little rebuild window and they were like, “Okay, you know what? We’re identifying it’s time now to take that next step forward. We have the top end talent that we like. We feel good about all these top end draft picks, about all the first round picks that we’ve acquired over the years. And now we’re going to take that significant step. We’re going to add a legitimate, you know, arguably top five head coach in the NBA and Eudoka. And then on top of that, adding the veterans, the stabilizing pieces, right? training wheels for these young guys, right? Adding Fred Van Vleet, adding Dylan Brooks, adding Uncle Jeff Green, right? And that’s what really helped take the Rockets from being one of the laughing stocks of the NBA into that area where they were actually playing competitive, respectable basketball. Now, granted, they they didn’t have quite the jump that the Pistons did from being, you know, Pistons being irrelevant to being uh, you know, in the playoffs this past season. That was a significant leap for Detroit. Um, the Rockets barely missed the playoffs that first year, but really that’s where it started, right? And it kind of feels like that’s where things started for the Pistons, too. Obviously, Cade has been the guy and there’s, you know, there was so much optimism about his future and what he could be on a team that was actually competing at a high level, but they just weren’t able to translate things to wins. But then you get JB in the mix and suddenly, you know, you add JB, you add a couple vets, and then suddenly things look look a lot different. So, it’s kind of a similar blueprint that the Rockets and Pistons have have utilized here. Yeah. The thing is is that there’s so much like when I look at the Rockets, I mean last year during the the losing season that was or I guess this two seasons ago now. Uh I we referenced a lot the Rockets on the podcast. We talked about them a lot during the offseason because there are there are differences. There’s a lot of differences which we’ll eventually get to as well, but there are also a lot of similarities. Like you mentioned, the Pistons this past year, they took this jump because they moved on from a head coach that maybe didn’t work out. Rockets moved on from Steven Silas. They get Eay Udoka. Now things blow up for them. Pistons, they move on from Monty Williams, which let’s not spend too much time with that, but they move on from Monty and bring in JB Bigger Staff. That does a world of difference. That helps change the culture. May doas helped change the culture in Houston. And then you bring in veterans. Like you mentioned, the Houston brought in a ton of veterans. And something I I really like that Houston did at the time. The Pistons didn’t maybe go this aggressive, but Houston put a lot of money into going after their veterans, too. They put a lot of money into going after FBV. put a lot of money into going after Dylan Brooks to really help establish that culture. The Pistons maybe didn’t invest that much in uh financially, but roster spots and and minutes in the rotation, they did the same thing this past year with Tobias Harris, he helped change it. Malik Beasley, unfortunate situation going on right now, but helped change it. THJ helped change it. Paul Reed, who’s not even that old, but just has been in the league for a minute and helps, you know, change a locker room. He came in and helped it. So I thought I I think there’s a lot of similarities in which how the Houston Rockets and how the Pistons took the jump to like you mentioned the Pistons were the laughing stock man. I was getting called to talk about the Pistons from overseas talk about how are they this bad? How is that possible? Like it was it was like they were it was bad. And then in just one off seasonason just it flipped just like that just off of bringing in a good veteran coach and bringing some veterans to help it really grow these young guys and help grow this this organization where they’re at right now to taking that next step. Uh, another question I had for you, Jackson, is was there at any point during because I felt like the Pistons didn’t there is one thing I felt like they had at least in the Pistons community that kind of kept optimism alive even during the downstretch is that the Pistons felt like or at least the community felt like, okay, Kade’s the guy. Whether it actually whether this actually works out or not, we feel confident that eventually it should because we feel like Kay can be that dude. I don’t feel like there was much waver in that from the Piston side, even though it did get dark at times during the two seasons ago. Was there any time during the Rockets during the Rockets rebuild when it was like do we have that like are we are we confident this is going to be it? Like do we have because there was there’s a lot of dark you mentioned there’s a lot of dark moments that go on when you’re in the rebuilding process. Was there any of that going on? Oh, absolutely. And in fact, you can argue that some of that is actually still going on. And that that’s arguably the reason that they felt, you know, that they needed to go out and get a guy like Kevin Durant is because unfortunately, as good as the Rockets have been, you know, they they took this massive step forward. They finished number two in the Western Conference, one of the best teams in the NBA all season long, um, you know, they didn’t have a clear-cut guy, right? And Shingun has been absolutely incredible. He’s clearly been the team’s best player for the last two seasons. But is Alpore and Shingun on the same tier as Cade Cunningham? I don’t think so. Like I think Cade takes the cake there. Not I’m not going to say it’s not like a massive gap. Shingun is he was you know a a couple votes away from being an allNBA player himself, right? So um Shingun is is right there. the gap is very narrow, but unfortunately at the end of the day, it is a guard or or perimeter player dominated league. And Kade Cunningham being the guy who has the ball in his hands, who orchestrates the offense, who who is a floorraiser for the entire Pistons team, that’ll always probably carry a little bit more weight than than Shingun’s role, or at least Shingun’s role is a little bit more limited in the fact that he still needs a guy. He still needs a guard to set him up in the pick and roll. still needs guys to capitalize on, you know, when he does attract a double team, being able to capitalize on his offensive gravity, which Cade does as well, right? Like you you’ve been there and seen that what it looks like when Cade does all the work and drives and, you know, has a beautiful kick out and then guys aren’t able to convert on those opportunities. That’s been a lot of what Alpore and Shingun has dealt with for the past two years. So, there absolutely was a lot of that, right? And that’s where the Pistons actually have, I guess, a competitive advantage over the Rockets that they were able to identify much earlier on. Kade Cunningham is our guy. The Rockets wanted Jaylen Green to be that guy. And unfortunately, Jaylen had his highs. He had his moments where he looked incredibly talented and looked like he could be the future face of the organization, be a future all-star and one of the top tier, you know, scorers in the league. But then he also had a lot of lows. He also had a lot of inconsistency problems. And at the end of the day, the Rockets identified that and said, “You know what? You got four years. You got a playoff series. And you know, we’ve seen enough to feel confident in at least making the decision to not bank on your future potential because Jaylen Green may very well still become an all-star. He still may maximize his potential down the line. But the Rockets think they have a better chance to win in the here and now with Kevin Durant as their best player, which is why they made that trade in the first place. I think right now for Houston, you’re looking at it and a lot of Rockets fans, a lot of, you know, pundits, whatever. You got it pencled in that Am Thompson’s probably going to be the face of this franchise moving forward. you know, he’s only played two years in the NBA, and the exponential level of growth that he’s displayed in those two short years is unbelievable. Like, I think we’re about to have a massive Amen Thompson year three leap on our hands. Um, the Rockets are trusting him as one of their primary ball handlers moving forward despite his limited ball handling reps last season. That speaks volumes about their confidence and their faith in him as as a player moving forward. Um, and so I think it’ll be a lot easier to to see this next season. Okay, cool. Katie is the best player, but Amin is on the comeup. And as long as you’ve got Amen and Shingun, that is an incredible one-two dynamic duo to build your team around moving forward. It just took a little while for them to really get to that point of identifying that. They had to wade through the couple years of Jaylen Green first and really exhaust that avenue before they were like, “All right, you know what? We gave you chances. It’s it’s not going to work out with you. Now, we’re going to, you know, reidentify. Okay, Shingun, the torch is yours. I’m in. The torch is yours. Show us what you got. That’s actually where I want to get to next when we come up is that the Rockets made a decision on a guy in their young core and moved on from him. The Pistons still have all of their guys here. I kind of want to compare those situations to get Jackson’s thoughts on how did the Houston decide it was time it, you know, can the Pistons take some advice? Can the Pistons look at Houston and kind of figure out when they should try to pull the trigger? We’ll talk about that all coming up. Today’s episode is brought to you by Game Time. Have you ever decided that last minute to head to a ball game with friends and family? Maybe it’s a game day and suddenly you realize that you want to be in the stands. That’s exactly where Game Time comes in. Is the easiest way to grab last minute tickets without all the stress. With the money you save on the tickets, you can splurge on food, drinks, merch, or even invite a bigger group to come with you. Game time makes it all possible. For someone like me who’s a procrastinator, I wait till the last second with everything. It often screws me over when it comes to buying tickets. But with Game Time, it saves me because it has lastm minute ticket deals. Even sometimes after the event has already started, even if I procrastinate and wait till the last second, I still get the best tickets possible. 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You guys should know about Marcus if you guys are interested. Go ahead. Marcus Sasser’s nice. Go ahead. Go ahead and check it out. Go ahead and check it out. He’s a diamond. He’s a gem. Not a diamond. He’s a hidden gem on the Pistons roster. So, if Houston wants a, you know, a scoring guard, they can come in and and score in bunches. Maybe they, you know, show some interest. But, uh, let’s let’s get into the next part of this. So, what I was really interested in talking with you about Jackson, and I’m sure we’ll dive even further into this, is obviously Houston decided to take that swing this off seasonason. They went and got Kevin Durant, one of the greatest players we’ve ever seen, still playing extremely high level. They went out and made this swing. And later on the podcast, we’ll go complete comparisons between Houston, Detroit, see if any team, if the Pistons have any advantages anywhere over Houston. Kind of discuss that a little later. But I just wanted to ask you, Houston decided to move on from Jaylen Curry. He was drafted in the same draft class as K Cunningham. And outside of that, Houston’s held on to a lot of their young guys. They’ve had Sangum still. They have uh Tari Een still. They have obviously Amen. They still have Reed Shepard. They have a lot of their young guys. The Pistons also still have a lot of their young guys. They have they haven’t really moved on from anybody. But Houston decided it was time for them to go and make the move and they parted from one of their young guys. I wanted to get your perspective. How did Houston get to the point of, okay, we are at the point where it’s it’s time for us to trade one of the guys. We need to move on and this is when we push our chips in. How did you get to this point? And how do you how do you realize you’re at that point? I guess I think a big part of it is one the success that they had this past season. It became really easy to identify, hey, what was the what was the Achilles heel of this Rockets team? Where did they need to improve the most? And very clearly it was they didn’t have a reliable go-to scorer. They didn’t have a reliable alpha scorer who could take over the game, you know, when needed, who could, you know, shoulder those clutch time moments, all that stuff. And and unfortunately, right, on paper, that guy was supposed to be Jaylen Green. And he could be that guy sometimes, but he was not that guy other times. And when he wasn’t that guy, it made it really difficult for the Rockets to win games. So yes, that’s a lot of pressure to put on a very, very young player, but at the same time, he had four years to show that he could be that guy, right? Nobody has questions. Kade Cunningham is that guy, right? Literally same draft, one pick ahead of Jaylen Green. And then you also compare, right? Like guys like Evan Mobley, already a DOI car, you know, player, already an all-star. Scotty Barnes, you know, all-star rookie of the year. Jaylen Suggs, uh, all NBA caliber defensive player, right? Fits into his role beautifully in Orlando. So, all these guys have have elevated their games, have done a lot in their four years in the NBA. And that’s not to say that Jaylen Green hasn’t or hadn’t done a lot in the role that he had. It’s just he hadn’t met this the expectations, the level that the Rockets needed him to be at for them to be able to win at the highest level. And so I think in that light, it made it kind of easy to identify, hey, if you want to improve the team, this is the direction you’re going to have to go. A big part of it is also the financial considerations, right? So, uh, obviously Cade got his rookie max extension and that was like a no-brainer from the Pistons. For the Rockets, they didn’t give Alparing and Jaylen Green flat rookie max extensions, right? Rafel Stone, who is a lawyer through and through, played hard ball with him and and he got Shingun on an incredibly team friendly deal, like five years, $180 million or whatever, which is like a little less than what his rookie max would have been. And then for Jaylen Green, he signed a very unconventional like three years whatever $5 million deal or something about average value of like 33 million a year with a player option in that final year. And a big reason that the Rockets probably had Jaylen Green sign that contract as opposed to just letting him, you know, walk to restricted free agency or something is it made him trade eligible this summer. And that was a big part of the calculus is knowing that, hey, all right, we know we’re going to have to make a big move. We know that we want to be able to be competitive and and look, maybe the Rockets, you know, had they not been the two seed, had they not won 52 games and, you know, had a really competitive first round series against the Warriors, maybe they would have been more willing to slow play it, give Jaylen one more year to run it back and and revisit next offseason or at the trade deadline or something. But given the the jump that this team took this past year, I think they were able to identify, hey, we’re ready to contend. We don’t think we’re that far away from the OKC’s or the Nuggets or the Pacers of the world, right? Um, you know, you get a guy like KD and it gives you at least a puncher chance against OKC in a seven game series. And they look, you know, at the end of the day, OKC isn’t like some crazy juggernaut team, right? They Pacers took them to seven. Nuggets took them to seven. Like they’re not this unbeatable team like the like the KD era Warriors, right? They are a beatable organization. And so the Rockets feel pretty confident that they can do that. Now, back to the young side of the young player side of things, right? They also know that down the line they’re going to have to pay him in Thompson, right? And they’ve already put Shing, they’ve already got Shingun on the books. They know they’re going to have to pay him in Thompson. They have Jabari Smith Jr. his extension’s already inked. Uh we’re waiting to hear about Tar Een’s extension, but in all likelihood, they’re going to try and extend him as well. But knowing Rafll Stone, he’s probably playing hard ball with Tari as well, trying to get him on a on a value contract as opposed to just giving him what he probably deserves as a player. But that’s his job, right? His job is to try and, you know, extract maximum value um from a contractual standpoint. So, I think when you start to compare that to the Pistons, right, they haven’t really, I guess, been put in that kind of tough position of identifying, hey, where are we wanting to all lot our money? And I guess that’s where their first major decision comes this off season with Jay Nivey, right? What do you do with Jay Nivey? Has Jay Nivey done enough to guarantee an extension? Has he done enough to guarantee a rookie max? Where is he at? And that’s actually I want to flip that back on you. Where where are things at with Jaden Ivy? And and are the Pistons just con are are they going to max him out the gate? Are they going to try and get him on a on a favorable contract? How does the injury play into his contract negotiations moving forward? All that good stuff. Yeah, I it’s it’s I feel like this off seasonason Jane Ivy I don’t think has shown enough to get anywhere close to a rookie max. And the injuries the injury does complicate things. And I think Jayen Ivy probably is looking at the Jaylen Green extension and saying, “Okay, well, why shouldn’t I get somewhere near what Jaylen Green got? Why can’t I get what he wants?” And then the Pistons are looking at it like, “We’re not going to give you that. We’re not giving you that much money.” The Pistons have said over and over that they’re interested in bringing these guys back and having extensions for them, but if only if it makes sense for the team. And I’ve heard throughout the offseason that they have a pretty good idea of where they want to pay both these players, Jay Ivy and Jaylen Duran. and it feels like they’re pretty set at look, if you’re not gonna come down to this number, if this is not the number you guys want, then we’re fine going into the season and just playing it out slowly here. Um, but I I feel like Jane Ivy’s kind of in the same situation that Jaylen Green was in with the Rockets where it’s like all off seasonason when you ask the Pistons or you ask a Pistons fan or you ask someone in the community or even if you ask Trean Langden when they asked about why this offseason was so quiet, you ask them, “Well, this Cad’s him. Why don’t you have a second guy? Why didn’t you go out and try to get like a star? They’ll respond and say, “Well, we have Jane Ivy coming back.” If you ask why, you know, you lost Malik Beas and TH. What are you going to do about the shooting? Well, Jane Ivy’s coming back. Like, if you ask any question, it’s just going to be a response of, “Well, Ivy’s coming back.” So, they have this same question. I I said this on a few podcasts ago that Tan Langden, it seems like, is not so much prioritizing taking the next jump win-wise as far as like he’s prioritizing that over getting answers. seems like he just wants answers. And if it’s a good or bad answer, he wins either way. I just want answers is basically what it seems like his perspective is. And if the answer is Jane Ivy’s that dude that takes him to the next level, then that’s great. And they win more games. If he isn’t, well, maybe we don’t win enough games, but at least I got my answer. I win e anyways. Like I think that’s how Tan’s looking at it. And I I to flip it around back at you again, Cade. I felt like because I’ve talked about this a lot on my podcast, especially towards the end of this year when the offseason first started, Houston, at least from my point of view and from a lot of P there’s a there’s a little bit of a civil war going on in the Pistons community, but so I’ll say part of the Pistons community. It’s okay. There’s always a civil war going on in the Rockets community, so it’s all good. No one ever ever agrees on everything. I wonder if OKC fans like do they all like after you win a championship? No, man. It’s it’s got to be all Kumbaya over there. I can’t imag I can’t imagine that there’s any like JDub stands over there who are like JDub should be the main guy and SGA is trash. Like that’s not how this works. They just want a title. They just want a title. They they can they can screw off. But there’s a little bit of a civil war in the Piston community cuz it’s like okay Kate has established that he is the guy. That’s like the main question you want to get out the way and he’s answered that. So once you get that answer, shouldn’t then every year after that be about prioritizing and maximizing the window of Cade? That’s what some fans feel like. And I feel like I had some of those questions as well heading into these off seasonason. I feel like when I looked at Houston, it felt like Houston kind of decided like look even again this is my perspective was look even if Sangon isn’t top 10 or like you know maybe a superstar we have Sangun, we have Amen. we have two guys that we really buy into being pillars cornerstones of this franchise and we’re winning games. It’s time for us to maximize this window and they went out and did that. So, some of the confusion from some of the Pistons fans like, “Okay, well, if Houston did that, like Houston drafted Sangun the same draft class as Kade. Kade has made all NBA team. Kade has proven that he is the guy. Why is Houston so much more aggressive in maximizing their guys window and the Pistons are maybe slow playing theirs?” That’s kind of like where some Pistons fans are at here. I can really easily identify that and it all goes back to how these rebuilds actually started. Uh, the Rockets got an influx at the beginning of their rebuild, even though it wasn’t like a young blue chip prospect, right? They didn’t lock into like an SGA like the OKC Thunder got back for dealing Paul George, but they got back all of Brooklyn’s future draft capital. And that future draft capital from Brooklyn directly turned into one, Tari E, and two, Reed Shepard. So that’s two of their members of the Encore. And then on top of that, they then leveraged that draft ca draft capital, traded it back to Brooklyn, who then traded Male Bridges to New York and Brooklyn traded Phoenix’s future draft capital to Houston. And so because of where the Rockets were at as a direct result of how they managed the James Harden trade, they have been flush with draft capital from the Nets and now the Suns that they’ve subsequently used to leverage in trade negotiations and whatnot. So, in particular, right, this blockbuster deal for KD, it only worked because the Rockets owned that number 10 overall pick from the Suns in this most recent draft. And the Suns turned it into Kaman Malawatch. They also sent a handful of second round picks that they got Rashir Fleming with, which I’m lowkey jealous of. I like Rashir Fleming a lot. Um, but that’s why those trades were able to work. And they still own more of Phoenix’s future draft capital. So, they might be at the table again with the Suns in a couple years when it comes time for, you know, maybe Devin Booker demands a trade and they’re like, “You know what? All right, let’s go. Let’s You guys want to put Book on the table? You guys want your draft picks back cuz you’re going to be bad. Here you go. Like, like talk to us, right? Come play ball.” Um, and so I think that was a significant element in the Rockets feeling like they could go after KD because part of it was the price for KD was so so ridiculously low, right? You might tell yourself that giving up Jaylen and Dylan and a number 10 pick is a lot for, you know, a 36-y old Kevin Durant, but at the end of the day, it’s it’s a win now move. It’s also a move that doesn’t prevent them from winning later. A lot of teams, you hear the term, you know, championship or bust or whatever. There is no bust in the after for KD, right? It’s like once KD’s ready to hang them up, whether that’s two years from now, three years from now, hell, with KD’s skill set, I could see him being like an elite hooper, sixman off the bench into his 40s if he really wanted to, right? he’s going to age be his his game is going to age beautifully because of his skill set. So that being said, like the Rockets still have this really bright future with those cornerstones, those pillars in Amin Thompson and Alpour and Shingun to where even once KD is no longer the best player on the court, the best player on the team. They still have an incredibly bright future and they have the assets on top of that, their own future draft picks, the Suns picks, they have a really juicy pick from Dallas down the line. they still have one pick left from the Nets deal. Like all those picks are going to help them go chase the next star player that they maybe want to trade for to be able to stay at the top instead of dropping back down after being in this contention window. And I think that’s the main difference between where the Pistons are at and where the Rockets are at. They have extra draft capital that they were able to afford to shoot at a at a at an available star like KD. They pounced on it. They made it work. And the Pistons have that opportunity, right? Pistons could have easily made a deal like the Magic made for Desmond Bane, right? Like they could have they could have gotten Desmond Bane themselves if they really wanted to go pair like a a borderline all-star, whatever, but Detroit didn’t identify Bane as like the piece that was going to take them over the top. And that’s where you got to be really careful. You don’t want to make an all-in move and then have nothing left unless that move actually puts you at the top. And so Detroit has to play it smart, right? And I think that at least for right now, while you’re still kind of sifting and identifying the rest of these young guys, right? Can Jaden Ivy be that guy? That’s what this year is going to be really important for. And to your point, right, this is going to be year two of JB Bickerstaff. So, year two of Jaden Ivy playing under a winning caliber head coach. Shout out Monty. Um, and so like it’s it’s going to be a different situation for him. And the Pistons should Tjan Langden should have an answer by trade deadline or the end of the year to be able to identify, okay, cool. Are we sticking with Jaden Ivy or do we need to move him to go get a better running mate for Kade Cunningham? Yeah, and I think that that is a great explanation from Jackson. I’m sure Pistons fans love hearing that because Trajan has talked over and over to the Pistons fans about how they need to get more assets. We’re trying to be better about asset management. That’s something that Troy Weaver during his time with the Pistons, I talked about it probably almost every episode that they were just putrid with their asset management. The Pistons don’t have any extra picks. They don’t have any extra first rounders. They don’t have a large chest of treasure assets where like the Houston Rockets where if they do go make a move like you mentioned Jackson, they can make another move next year if they really want to. They can make another move at the deadline if they really want. Like they have they’re not, you know, they have a lot of ammo still. The Pistons, if they do make a move, how much ammo will they actually have left over afterwards? And it seems like that’s where Tan’s really just trying to stock up, trying to get as many assets as possible. So when he does want to make the move, it’s not like that was his final shot and that’s all he had. you. So, it makes sense. But we’ll see. We’ll see how things go this year for the Pistons. But coming up, I do want to talk with Jackson, just compare these teams, see how far behind is Detroit, and what are the expectations for both of these teams heading into the year. Houston seems like it might be a little bit higher obviously than the Pistons, but we’ll talk about it all coming up. Today’s episode’s brought to you by Open Phone. If you’re running a business, you know that every missed call is money left on the table. 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Make lockdown pistons and lockdown rockets your first listen every single day. We appreciate all of you guys. Leave us a fivestar review, whatever podcast platform you’re listening to this on, or obviously go over to the YouTube channel, hit that subscribe button. Pistons fans, I want to let you know I want to catch up to Jackson. Okay, Jackson. Jackson is way ahead of us in subscriber count. Okay, it’s not fair. So, we got to catch up. We got I don’t even know how many thousand we’re behind right now. We’re at See, we’re at like 11. I think we’re at like 12,000. And I was like, “Oh, you know, this is pretty good. We’re we’re doing good.” Then you go over to locked in rockets, you’re like, “Holy ble.” To like Piston fans, 40% of you guys don’t listen that do listen aren’t subscribed to Locked on Pistons. hit that subscribe button so we can catch up to to lock down. Hey man, look look look look. First off, it it it it’s first off, we don’t we ain’t got to compare numbers because the work you’re doing over here is incredible. But I I want I want to just highlight here I was like the third or fourth NBA show that got put on YouTube. So like I was out I was out way ahead in the race like way early on. Like I I think we started on YouTube like right before the 2021 draft, right before Jaylen Green and Shingoon and all And so it’s just like sometimes it’s just, you know, I I if you’re an F1 fan, right, I had pole position. I was P1 in this race, okay? And that that’s the issue. So you were all the way back there, you know, P P11, P12, whatever it was. And so you’re playing catch-up. So it’s locked on screws you from the jump, man. Right. That’s what it we really got to go at Nick. That’s really who we need. Hey man, anytime we can take a shot at Nick, we’re all about that. So I saw him say earlier today that he’s going to miss doing locked on Slovenia as if he doesn’t have locked on flag now. It’s like, dude, come on. Right. Come on, dude. Just just plant the flag and and stop stop being ungrateful, man. You got you lucked out, you know, with the the biggest like save in history with getting Cooper flag. I don’t I want to hear any belly aching from that man. All right, let’s get let’s get into expectations for these teams moving forward. So, obviously, I think all Pistons fans can be honest with themselves. The Houston Rockets are much ahead of the Pistons right now. We’ll see where the Pistons end up at the end of this year, but the Houston Rockets are considered to be Easter or not Houston, Western Conference Contenders. And I’m sure a lot of Rockets fans and a lot of people in Houston feel like they could win the title if things break their way. So, Jackson, what is the expectation for Houston this year after making this deal for Kevin Durant? thought it was really cool that you mentioned earlier that even if they don’t, obviously the goal is to win. I’m assuming you’re going to say the goal is to eventually win a championship with KD, but even if they don’t, because everything’s not put into the KD era, it’s not like it’s a bust. You still have years after that to keep going. So, with that said, just what are the expectations then? Yeah, I think it’s it’s very clearly that ch the expectation is to win a title with KD. You don’t trade for KD at this stage of his career just because you’re like, “Oh, we need like a veteran presence or we need like this leader.” No, you’re trading for Katie because you believe full stop that you have a legitimate chance to win a title. And I think that on paper, right, you still give OKC the benefit of the doubt. They’re the defending champions, but they’re also an incredibly young team. We know just how hard it is to repeat in the NBA. Haven’t had a repeat champion for the last what, seven years, six years, whatever it’s been. Um, and so there’s like a window is open there, right? And again, I said it earlier, OKC looks beatable at times. And so now the Rockets, they doubled down on their defensive identity. They added a bunch of defenders. they added that tier one guy and Kevin Durant. So yeah, the expectation is absolutely title for Houston. Um but it’s also like that’s the thing is and I think for Rockets fans this is going to be the tough thing to grapple is only one team of all 30 teams can win the title each season, right? If it’s literally if you’re at a stage where like it’s championship or bust because your team has no future assets because the the the stars are aging or they’re in their prime or they’re they’re slowly aging out of their prime. That’s understandable to be like, no, the they’re the only bar is like, you got to win a title. For the Rockets, they’re still straddling that fence of like, yes, they want to win a title. Yes, they should be in the conversation for winning a title, but it’s not the end of the world if they don’t win a title, right? Yes, it would be disappointing to trade for Kevin Durant and and fall short of that expectation. But the other benefit here is even if they let’s say they make it to a finals or a couple Western Conference finals and they just they ultimately lose out to the to the the Nuggets or the Thunder or whoever that experience is still going to be so invaluable for the other young guys on the roster, right? For Shingun, for Amen, for Jabari, Tari, Reed Shepard, all five of those guys are going to learn so much from playing alongside Kevin Durant and also having these ideally right deep postseason runs. We saw just how important the couple early postseason runs were for Shay Gildas Alexander, right? He got a taste of the po of the playoffs, his first year with the Clippers and then year two with OKC where Chris Paul dragged that team to the fifth seed in the bubble playoffs, you know, the the the Disney World situation during COVID. So like all of that early experience I think fully like it’s it’s not the only reason SGA became who he is today, but learning to play that highle basketball at such a young age absolutely does wonders for a player’s development and for their overall career trajectory. And so I don’t look at the KD thing as if they don’t win a title, it was the wrong move. I think it was ultimately the right move because at the end of the day, like I don’t know what Jaylen Green’s future’s ultimately going to hold, but I wasn’t super bought in on him being the guy that the Rockets felt like he needed to be for him to be the best version of himself for this team. Um hopefully it works playing alongside Devin Booker. He’s got an archetype of a player that he can try to emulate a little bit better. Seeing him every day in practice, hopefully that that helps elevate his game to another level. Um but it ultimately just didn’t work out here in Houston. And so I think that the Rockets didn’t sacrifice a ton. Like if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. You’ve still got a ton of assets and a ton of uh, you know, optimism for the future even post KD. So I think that’s kind of where they’re at uh in Houston. Yeah. So obviously Houston’s going to have a lot higher expectations than the Pistons this year. I think Houston Hey, no, no, no. Pump the brakes there. The expectations should be reasonably high for Detroit because the East is wide open. Like Detroit should be a top They should be a top four team in the East, right? Yeah, I think I see that’s where like the Civil War goes back and forth because I think if the young guys improve, they should be a top four seed, but then there’s also like I mentioned earlier, there’s a section of the fan base that’s like the East is wide open. So why didn’t you go out and try to make a move to where maybe Cade could have really made it happen in the East with it wide open, but then it’s also about, okay, who would have who would have been the move then? So like this is my question to you Pistons fans, dear Pistons fans, listeners, viewers, like who would you have traded for? Who’s who’s actually are you going to go get Lowry Markin? Like what’s the name. Who’s the guy that you want Tjan Langden to to push all the chips to the center of the table? I don’t think there’s a name out there that you would feel great. Like, hell, I know there are Magic fans that are upset about going all in on Desmond Bane. Like, I like I like the move for Desmond Bane, and I do think that Bane, uh, Vagner, and Berrow is a great big three for that Magic team with that defense that they have. Like, it’s going to be I think it’s going to work. I think it’s going to be solid. I think Orlando’s probably the third best team in the East this year, personally. Same thing. Um, but like that was a good name for them to go after, right? And that was the name that they felt would catapult them over the top. It also addressed kind of their biggest weakness, which is just the offensive side of the ball. Their defense is legit. The Pistons don’t aren’t quite yet to that point of knowing like, hey, this is our one big weakness or this is the one big thing that we need to take that next step. They’re right there, right? When you’re when you’re like just on the outside looking in of having both a top 10 offense and defense, that’s really Actually, no, defense was top 10. I apologize. So was 10th in defense and what like 14th in offense or something. So like the Pistons are right there, man. And I think that’s why it can be really hard for fans to want to have that little bit of extra patience of like I think the Pistons need that one more year to just see what does Jaden Ivy have? What, you know, what what else do they have with Assar? What do they have with Ron Hall? And and part of that is for the Rockets, right? They’re they drafted their their stars in 2021. Right? Jay Nivey still has a chance to become a star, but he was drafted a year later. And not only that, he got injured. Right. He could have been on like y’all could have gotten the answers you needed from Jay Nivey this past season had he not gotten injured. Right. Right. That would have been that could have been his defining season where it’s like no, okay, he he’s, you know, the the Robin to Cade’s Batman. No more questions asked. Build around these two guys moving forward. and then maybe Trejan Langan could have been in a position to be like, “Okay, now I know what I need to go get to flesh out this roster and really put the right parts around those two guys.” Unfortunately, that injury set them back a little bit to where now you have to move forward and now you have to use this next year to kind of identify that. And hell, maybe a player shakes loose at the trade deadline and maybe that’s when we see Tan Langden make that swing. Um, but I do think that the Rockets were given the opportunity because their two like star potential players were in 2021 and so it gave them an extra year over the Pistons compared to Jade Ivy who’s been in the year league one year less than both Cade and Alp and and Jaylen Green also. So, he needs that one more year to figure out what he’s got because for Jabari and Tari, right, that you know, I still think Jabari has some room to grow into maybe a, you know, elite third option kind of thing offensively, but I don’t know that he’s ever, he’s probably not ever going to be a star, right? But he’s an elite role player. Tar’s an elite role player. Amin Thompson has been used as an elite role player so far in his career, and he looks like he can maybe take the significant step this next season, but Amin Thompson’s also a freak of nature, so it’s kind of a different it’s a different discussion with him. Um and ali the Pistons have his brother, right? So it’s like, you know, Assar has a lot of the same capabilities as Amin Thompson. Maybe not quite the ball handler that a men is. He’s more of like the ancillary kind of, you know, offball role player type presence, but Assar still has like all NBA DP, you know, Dpoy potential, all that stuff. It’s all right there. So, I think for Pistons fans, as an outsider looking into the Pistons, I think it’s got to like you just got to hold on that little bit of patience for like one more half season or a year and then next year is really where like the pressure turns up for Tan Langden where like that’s where he’s going to have to go identify and make a move. And the fact that you’re still experiencing success despite not making one of those all-in moves, like appreciate it, man. the fact that like the Pistons were in the playoffs and had a competitive first round series this past year, that’s huge for all the young guys on the roster, man. Yeah. And I we’ll see. I think they could come to a decision with that kind of thing even at the deadline like you mentioned earlier to see how these guy cuz you had you never know who’s going to shake loose, right? And and because of like you said, Ivy gets hurt last year, Kade got hurt his second year. You just haven’t gotten the sample size with Kade, Ivy, SR to figure out, okay, can these guys actually be the reason why you take this next step or not? So, I understand why Trac’s taking the patient patient route. I think we might see something happen at the deadline, if not, you know, next off seasonason. But, we’re going to wrap it up here, Jackson. I think you guys I think the Houston Rockets should be in the Western Conference Finals at least next year. Hopefully, the Pistons win a playoff series. I think that will be the expectation of a lot of Pistons fans. Before we say goodbye, I just got to ask you just real quickly. Covering a Thompson twin, just how crazy is it? like how like some of Asar does things when watching the Pistons I’m just like bro how in the hell did he do that and I was everyone knows I love Amen and I think Amen even know how much I love Assar amen’s obviously like a a tear above as a prospect just tell me just real quickly how fun it is to to cover Amen I love the Thompson twins it it’s legitimately absurd because at least like once per game he does something that is so unbelievable you just like your jaw drops and you’re like how Um he’s got like this insane ability to jump with like no load up, right? Like he just jumps from like a standing jump like and you know a quick second bounce off an offensive rebound or watching him like lock in the way that like LeBron does or like back when LeBron like prime LeBron like in transition like like the the the the Iguidala block like Amin does that occasionally in transition where he’ll just like terminator lock onto a guy and just sprint past like six other dudes in transition and then go get like a poke check from behind or a or a a block from behind, a recovery block, something. Um, and it was was even Wilders against the Warriors in that game seven, the second half of game seven. That third quarter, man, there was a stretch where like Amin Thompson, it was like when I I keep I’ve talked about this a lot on L, but just there was a moment where it was like Amin Thompson, it’s like everything slowed down like he was Neo in the Matrix and he kind of realized he was like, “Oh, I’m him. I can do whatever I want.” And he had like three or four straight takes to the basket where like nobody on Golden State could stop him. And it’s like once he realizes that he can do that whenever he wants, he’s going to become unstoppable. Like there’s a reason that like I keep teeing it up. I’m like he’s going to be a weird hybrid between Russell Westbrook and Giannis but with a supercomput for a brain like LeBron James. He’s going to be a top 10 player in the NBA one day. It’s not an if, it’s a win. Yeah, I I absolutely love him, man. I I I can’t wait for it. I can’t wait to see him with the ball in his hands more this year. And I The interview with him and Assar was awesome, by the way. Like I loved the whole like who’s who with both of them. Uh we’re we’re both Batman. We’re both one half of Batman. Like that’s the most twin thing that you could have said. Uh and I also I also love that like Assar was like, “Hey, you know, how are you gonna win a title if you’re not in Houston like like Asar or sorry, not sorry, Amen said that to Assar.” Um just a lot of good some good nature ribbing between brothers. I loved it. Yeah. No, I absolutely love co covering the Thompson twins. Did you get did you get the slam cover? Yes. Yes, I’m I got it too. I got I got the slam cover. I got all of it. I was like I was like, “Oh, another rocket on the slam cover.” You got to get a t-shirt, too. You got to get You got to get the slam t-shirt with Oh, dude. I got the t-shirt. I got the mag cover and uh I got both magazine covers. The one with both twins and the one with just Assar. So, no. Yeah, I I got can’t wait for it, man. But hopefully Houston has a great year. I’m hoping a men really takes off this year. I I would love to see that. And I hope Assar takes off for the Pistons like I think he can. I think he become a top 50 player this year for the Pistons this year. So, thank you Jackson for the crossover. First time. I hope everyone loves it. I hope everyone thought it was a lot of fun. Appreciate all of you guys making lockdown pistons and lockdown rockets your first listen every single day. Hit that subscribe button down below. Leave us a fivestar review or whatever podcast platform you’re listening to us on. And until next time, we’ll see you guys later. Until next time, peace out everybody.

Rebuilding an NBA franchise: A tale of two cities. The Detroit Pistons and Houston Rockets embarked on similar journeys, but their paths have diverged dramatically. How did coaching changes, veteran leadership, and franchise player identification shape their trajectories?

Hosts Ku Khahil and Jackson Gatlin dissect the strategies employed by both teams, from draft decisions to blockbuster trades. They explore the impact of stars like Cade Cunningham and Kevin Durant, debate playoff expectations, and share insights on rising talents Amen and Ausar Thompson. The discussion covers asset management, the value of draft picks, and the challenges of establishing a winning culture with a young roster.

Tune in for an insider’s perspective on NBA team building and discover which franchise might be closer to championship contention.

SUBSTACK: kukhahil.substack.com

PLAYBACK: playback.tv/watchpistons

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